Mata Nui's last decision

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

Why did mata nui resort to resting for a for the unforeseeable future. He was already revived and healed from the great cataclysm, and teridax was stopped by him.

 

So why did he not create a second body to live in (like he created on Bara Magna) and rejoice at the possibility of living with his matoran people as a all powerful guiding Turaga? His tiredness is just odd instead of leading Spherus Magna alongside Tahu.

Edited January 19, 2016 by necross hordika

[Banana Gunz]

I think it was pretty well explained for me. The matoran always looked up to him as a god and deity and he felt that so long as he walked among them they would be striving and working in his glory rather than progressing as a species for themselves. By going away, the matoran would no longer have a god like being to look up to and they would have to have more control in their lives/what they believe in. For example, what is right or wrong would be dictated by their own morality.

 

At least that's how I take it. I think it was a brilliant move. Though Mata-Nui was cool, he played/took on the role of a sort of messiah character to lead his people to glory through his sacrifice, and his decision to leave them and let them lead themselves was a bold and wise one that at the same time didn't undermine his sacrifice. The fact that he had the opportunity and ability to come back right away and walk as a god among men and hold power once more but chose not to take it shows a lot about his change in character. It's interesting how a character so used to running a universe changed and became humble enough to be willing to sacrifice all of it. Sometimes there is much one can do with great power, but other times what one can do by giving it up and passing it on is greater and can change a people rather than just a world.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

His tiredness is just odd

 

Mata Nui deserved a rest.

 

Not only that, but Mata Nui had nothing to offer the people of Spherus Magna... he isn't as wise as some people seem to think.

[Xboxtravis]

I like what Banana Gunz said. Mata Nui probably had changed his character and was more humble, not wanting to take back control of the Matoran race. I imagine he will return when he knows his people have truly learned to live without him. And whose to say when he returns he will take the guise of Mata-Nui? He could return with a simple body and live among his people in secret.

[Alyska]

I can understand not wanting to lead the Matoran, but he just went through this whole arc of learning about friendship and caring for other people and being there for your friends and then it's just like "Welp, Nap time now. See you probably never!" 

 

I like the idea of Mata Nui being more active than he lets on. Maybe he sometimes creates a Matoran or Agori body for himself and goes out to see how things are going. I'd like to think he'd at least let Kiina, Ackar and Gresh know it was him. Perhaps he occasionally uses his powers to help those in need, or bestows "gifts" upon certain beings. That could be quite fun, especially if his attempts at helping don't always go to plan...

[fishers64]

I can understand not wanting to lead the Matoran, but he just went through this whole arc of learning about friendship and caring for other people and being there for your friends and then it's just like "Welp, Nap time now. See you probably never!"

Never goodbye.

 

Besides, I figured that if their was truly a huge threat to the Matoran civilisation - like, say, a Great Being Civil War - Mata Nui would come back from sleeping and help out big time.

[Regitnui]

I got the same impression. It was less abandonment and more King Arthur. My post-JE headcanon has Takanuva and the Av-Matoran creating and maintaining a shrine for the Ignika where they would talk to the mask, ask advice, and graduate new Toa/Glatorian under its gaze. Sorta like some RL cultures do for their ancestral shrines, where they include and acknowledge the dead at certain meals or times of the year.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Besides, I figured that if their was truly a huge threat to the Matoran civilisation - like, say, a Great Being Civil War - Mata Nui would come back from sleeping and help out big time.

 

How?

 

His only source of power is the Ignika, which he himself barely has any influence over.

[fishers64]

 

Besides, I figured that if their was truly a huge threat to the Matoran civilisation - like, say, a Great Being Civil War - Mata Nui would come back from sleeping and help out big time.

 

How?

 

His only source of power is the Ignika, which he himself barely has any influence over.

 

No, multiple Greg quotes tell us that Mata Nui's mind dominates the mind of the Ignika. This is the brains of a giant robot, remember, versus the child's mind of a mere mask. No contest. And the Ignika is a freaking powerful mask. 

 

Not only this, but if Mata Nui comes back, all of the Toa and Glatorian will instantly recognize him as leader. He might not really need any power of his own - all he has to do is summon his army. 

[TheSkeletonMan939]

No, multiple Greg quotes tell us that Mata Nui's mind dominates the mind of the Ignika.

 

Oh. 

 

So much for my cool story idea of the Ignika and Mata Nui battling for control over the mask's power.

[Xboxtravis]

I got the same impression. It was less abandonment and more King Arthur. My post-JE headcanon has Takanuva and the Av-Matoran creating and maintaining a shrine for the Ignika where they would talk to the mask, ask advice, and graduate new Toa/Glatorian under its gaze. Sorta like some RL cultures do for their ancestral shrines, where they include and acknowledge the dead at certain meals or times of the year.

Yeah my head canon is that the Matoran will eventually build a futuristic city (a-la Metru Nui) with a temple for the Inika, Vahi, G1 MoC, and any other important relics. In a way that Mask is Mata-Nui's tomb, even the Red Star Matoran have more space than he does in that Mask.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

In a normal mortal body, he did some pretty great deeds that most would have seen as impossible without super powers. Sure, he had the Mask of Life, but he didn't really know how to use it fully. And then he forcefully willed his spirit out of his body and went into another body and had a history changing battle with the great evil of the universe, carefully put the moons back in place (which must have been stressful as if he made one mistake it could have had a mass extinction event and ruined everything), then poured out his power out to the reformed planet to give it new life.

 

 

I think it was pretty well explained for me. The matoran always looked up to him as a god and deity and he felt that so long as he walked among them they would be striving and working in his glory rather than progressing as a species for themselves. By going away, the matoran would no longer have a god like being to look up to and they would have to have more control in their lives/what they believe in. For example, what is right or wrong would be dictated by their own morality.

 

At least that's how I take it. I think it was a brilliant move. Though Mata-Nui was cool, he played/took on the role of a sort of messiah character to lead his people to glory through his sacrifice, and his decision to leave them and let them lead themselves was a bold and wise one that at the same time didn't undermine his sacrifice. The fact that he had the opportunity and ability to come back right away and walk as a god among men and hold power once more but chose not to take it shows a lot about his change in character. It's interesting how a character so used to running a universe changed and became humble enough to be willing to sacrifice all of it. Sometimes there is much one can do with great power, but other times what one can do by giving it up and passing it on is greater and can change a people rather than just a world.

I feel like i agree with you but with a less atheistic angle. I imagine that the matoran would continue to worship him and work for the Great Spirit's glory for the sake of tradition and remembrance. He wanted to get out of the way to promote sentience to it's fullest while still interacting with them from time to time in times of great turmoil. He ruled absolutely before and his negligence allowed for a powerful agent to fall so great a depth and attain so much power that little could be done once the agent had revealed itself. He feels that if he doesn't get involved then things will be better. I wonder if he would have emerged during the Great Being Civil War, sort of like a father-son type of ordeal, learning that not all of his creators were the great wise and peaceful bunch he thought they were.

 

Is anyone else disappointed that the Ignika didn't feature any sort of decay on Mata Nui? Did it heal?

 

 

 

Besides, I figured that if their was truly a huge threat to the Matoran civilisation - like, say, a Great Being Civil War - Mata Nui would come back from sleeping and help out big time.

How?

 

His only source of power is the Ignika, which he himself barely has any influence over.

 

No, multiple Greg quotes tell us that Mata Nui's mind dominates the mind of the Ignika. This is the brains of a giant robot, remember, versus the child's mind of a mere mask. No contest. And the Ignika is a freaking powerful mask.

 

Not only this, but if Mata Nui comes back, all of the Toa and Glatorian will instantly recognize him as leader. He might not really need any power of his own - all he has to do is summon his army.

 

I always thought that referred to who is the dominant mind, not whether Mata Nui can access the power or not. The Toa were seen having to learn their mask powers slowly and gather the will power for it. With a powerful and complicated abilities like the Ignika's, I doubt Mata Nui was able to master his mask power before taking a nice rest. I like to separate the ignika soul to the power inherit to the mask itself. Edited January 20, 2016 by Sir Iaredios

[fishers64]

I always thought that referred to who is the dominant mind, not whether Mata Nui can access the power or not. The Toa were seen having to learn their mask powers slowly and gather the will power for it. With a powerful and complicated abilities like the Ignika's, I doubt Mata Nui was able to master his mask power before taking a nice rest. I like to separate the ignika soul to the power inherit to the mask itself.

The way I view it is this: 

 

1. Ig mind knows how to use his own power. 

2. Mata Nui controls Ig mind.

3. Ig uses his knowledge to do what needs done. 

 

It's like a Toa of Psionics mind controlling someone with invisibility powers. That person knows how to turn invisible, so the Toa of Psionics can order him to turn invisible and he will. The Psionics Toa doesn't need to know how to operate that power themselves. Does that make any sense?

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

 

I always thought that referred to who is the dominant mind, not whether Mata Nui can access the power or not. The Toa were seen having to learn their mask powers slowly and gather the will power for it. With a powerful and complicated abilities like the Ignika's, I doubt Mata Nui was able to master his mask power before taking a nice rest. I like to separate the ignika soul to the power inherit to the mask itself.

The way I view it is this: 

 

1. Ig mind knows how to use his own power. 

2. Mata Nui controls Ig mind.

3. Ig uses his knowledge to do what needs done. 

 

It's like a Toa of Psionics mind controlling someone with invisibility powers. That person knows how to turn invisible, so the Toa of Psionics can order him to turn invisible and he will. The Psionics Toa doesn't need to know how to operate that power themselves. Does that make any sense?

 

I don't see one controlling the other, but rather, like Firestorm from DC Comics, has both minds available at the same time while one is dominant and has a body. It would be interesting to see what goes on in there, the stories Mata Nui could tell and the sights he has seen to the child-like Ignika. "Tell me another story Great Spirit!" "Okay okay little one. It was the time before time...". It also allows Mata Nui to have feedback from another point of view and better make decisions in case he missed something.

 

I also see the power of the Ignika being more of a thing attributed to the physical mask and it's enchantment. The Ignikas life is a byproduct of the power of the mask. The Ignika could tell Mata Nui "I think this might work. Oh no! Sorry, didn't mean to have us curse the li'l guy, I'll just remove that!"

 

This discussion to the exact properties of and the relationship between the Ignika, it's own soul, and the soul of Mata Nui reminds me of some Christian theological stuff regarding Christ. *Remembers Roman history* Let's not start any stupid and unnecessary wars now, shall we?

Edited January 21, 2016 by Sir Iaredios

[Erasmus Graves]

Mata Nui was a flawed being, but by recognising his flaws, learning humility, and ultimately withdrawing into the Ignika rather than lead Spherus Magna he proved that he had, after all, learned wisdom after 100,000 years of existence. He was a highly intelligent being - but his discovery the elusive gem that is wisdom only came after his exile. 

And, as fishers64 said, if there was a massive threat to society, he'd probably rise out of slumber to lay waste to whoever it is, accompanied by the Ignika's awesome speed-freak adrenaline junkie sidekick bodyguard named Umbra (who is hunting down the Ignika to guard it, see biosector01 for proof). But that begs the question of How old is Umbra, actually? He was created by the Great Beings over 100,000 years ago, but Inferno's prologue mentions that he was appointed guardian of the Ignika, rather than created at the time, perhaps placing his age his age as pre-Shattering era.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

Mata Nui was a flawed being, but by recognising his flaws, learning humility, and ultimately withdrawing into the Ignika rather than lead Spherus Magna he proved that he had, after all, learned wisdom after 100,000 years of existence. He was a highly intelligent being - but his discovery the elusive gem that is wisdom only came after his exile. 

And, as fishers64 said, if there was a massive threat to society, he'd probably rise out of slumber to lay waste to whoever it is, accompanied by the Ignika's awesome speed-freak adrenaline junkie sidekick bodyguard named Umbra (who is hunting down the Ignika to guard it, see biosector01 for proof). But that begs the question of How old is Umbra, actually? He was created by the Great Beings over 100,000 years ago, but Inferno's prologue mentions that he was appointed guardian of the Ignika, rather than created at the time, perhaps placing his age his age as pre-Shattering era.

If what you say is true, there could be further backstory for Umbra. Ahh, the possibilities. Edited January 21, 2016 by Sir Iaredios

[Regitnui]

I now picture Umbra blundering into a temporary shelter made for the ignika and attempting to threaten everyone there before realizing that they're just sitting looking at or talking to the ignika rather than trying to use it, lowering his weapon and going. "Well, then" and sitting down in the crowd.

[Tuuli]

So he could have his second body be taken over? I don't think so.

[Toa Atukam]

It definitely seems like a messiah kind of move. 

For all we know, he could live among them as a matoran in the future, enjoying the peace that his creation is preserving.

[Irrie]

 

His tiredness is just odd

 

Mata Nui deserved a rest.

 

I dunno, 1,000 years is a pretty good nap. 

[fishers64]

 

 

His tiredness is just odd

 

Mata Nui deserved a rest.

 

I dunno, 1,000 years is a pretty good nap. 

 

Being in a coma =/= restful sleep. 

[TheSkeletonMan939]

 

 

 

His tiredness is just odd

 

Mata Nui deserved a rest.

 

I dunno, 1,000 years is a pretty good nap. 

Being in a coma =/= restful sleep. 

 

I dunno, this comic suggests otherwise

 

 

Edited January 30, 2016 by TheSkeletonMan939

[Regitnui]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

His tiredness is just odd

Mata Nui deserved a rest.

I dunno, 1,000 years is a pretty good nap.

Being in a coma =/= restful sleep.

I dunno, this comic suggests otherwise

 

 

You seriously going to argue that with a comic?

[TheSkeletonMan939]

You seriously going to argue that with a comic?

 

No, not seriously.

[Irrie]

 

You seriously going to argue that with a comic?

 

No, not seriously.

 

Are you sure? That comic was extremely serious. 

[TheSkeletonMan939]

Are you sure? That comic was extremely serious. 

 

[Banana Gunz]

This topic has destroyed itself in the most beautiful of ways.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

This topic has destroyed itself in the most beautiful of ways.

 

If only people had taken it more seriously.

Edited February 14, 2016 by TheSkeletonMan939

[ToaTImeLord]

Lets get this train back on topic.

Could Mata Nui return in 2018?

Yes he can.

Mata Nui's mask is linked into the Matoran universe. Since he decided to lock himself in the mask he can come out any time he wants.

After thousands of years everyone has forgotten about the Bionicle god.

He feels a dark presents returning.

He decides its time to come back. He sees that his great great great grandsons have made a big mess of his world.

He finds both of them and sets them straight on how they should run the world.

What about the Mask of ultimate power?

Funny how can a mere mask control everything.

Hey my idea is that G1 Makuta is living in the Mask of Ultimate power.

[FallenCor]

Hey my idea is that G1 Makuta is living in the Mask of Ultimate power.

 

He was confirmed dead and buried, dearie.

[Regitnui]

Lets get this train back on topic.

Could Mata Nui return in 2018?

 

No he couldn't.

 

This isn't Spherus Magna. It's Okoto. There are no direct connections, only allusions. Mata Nui is in a different story.

[ToaTImeLord]

Didn't Mata Nui tern that dust ball of Bara Magna into a watery jungle paradise. Wait a minute isn't that what Okoto looks like.

I rest my case.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

Didn't Mata Nui tern that dust ball of Bara Magna into a watery jungle paradise. Wait a minute isn't that what Okoto looks like.

I rest my case.

 

It wasn't a watery jungle, he just enabled the ground to produce and keep vegetation and breathed life into the new fitting ground. However, he did not change the shape of the ground itself (mountains and canyons), nor a bunch of other environmental variables (like location), so I assume that some areas will slowly return to being a wasteland or just turn into steppe plains, while others will take to their new gift of life and keep it, such as coasts and newly-formed river valleys.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Sir Iaredios

[Xboxtravis]

Didn't Mata Nui tern that dust ball of Bara Magna into a watery jungle paradise. Wait a minute isn't that what Okoto looks like.

I rest my case.

The issue with continuing the original 2001-2010 story is pretty obvious in the current age of most G1 Bionicle fans. Assuming a kid was from 7-11 years old when they got into Bionicle, we should assume that all of the original fans from 2001 should be around 22-26 years old. A fan who got interested in Bionicle around 2009 should be around 14-18 years old by now.

 

Other than us nerds who like fan sites such as this, we should assume the majority of 16-26 year old fans don't care about Bionicle anymore. They are busy with school, work, ect. So while there is a small portion of that population buying new G2 sets because they loved G1 as a kid, that portion is small enough that they ad very little to Lego's bottom line.

 

So if Lego wants G2 to sell they have to sell it to 7-11 year old children. Now if they attached the G1 story to G2 those 7 year old kids would have to dig back to story material made in 2001 before they were BORN and try and piece the story together. Unlike other franchises such as Star Wars which told the main story in films; Bionicle's only continuous story medium is in books. I don't know the exact number, but I'm sure Greg wrote probably close to 20 books.

 

So for G2 to be a continuation of G1, kids would need to read 20 books that are out of print... If they didn't want to read the books they'd need to read out of print comics, piece together 4 movies that barely connect to each other, or search YouTube for random character videos. Or they'd have to read disconnected entries on a wiki (hopefully BS01 and not Custom Bionicle Wiki!) All of this was easy for G1 fans since they had 9 years to soak it in. The modern day 7,8,9,10,11 year old would be swamped by the information.

 

Or Lego could disregard the original saga's story (only referencing it in Easter eggs for the occasional G1 fan) and focus their new story into easy to understand web episodes and a four part original Netflix show; thus allowing kids to easily pick up the story, while the random 22 year old who still cares about Bionicle happily smiles at the easter eggs referencing his childhood story.

 

I think The Lego Group chose to take route #2...

[ToaTImeLord]

Well its only an idea.

LEGO well probably just make a brand new story (which I'm fine with) its just a nice thought to think they may connect the two stories.

[Gonel]

 

Didn't Mata Nui tern that dust ball of Bara Magna into a watery jungle paradise. Wait a minute isn't that what Okoto looks like.

I rest my case.

They'd have to read disconnected entries on a wiki (hopefully BS01 and not Custom Bionicle Wiki!)

 

I remember confusing the two early in my time in the Bionicle fansites. I was so overwhelmed by the amount of stuff I'd have to learn and read.

 

Ahhh the memories...   

[Starset]

I like what Banana Gunz said. Mata Nui probably had changed his character and was more humble, not wanting to take back control of the Matoran race. I imagine he will return when he knows his people have truly learned to live without him. And whose to say when he returns he will take the guise of Mata-Nui? He could return with a simple body and live among his people in secret.

 

Like, thousands of years later, under the name of Ekimu ?

[ToaTImeLord]

 

 

I like what Banana Gunz said. Mata Nui probably had changed his character and was more humble, not wanting to take back control of the Matoran race. I imagine he will return when he knows his people have truly learned to live without him. And whose to say when he returns he will take the guise of Mata-Nui? He could return with a simple body and live among his people in secret.

Like, thousands of years later, under the name of Ekimu ?

A continuation theory supporter!!

I always saw Ekimu and Makuta(G2) as the descendents of Mata Nui. So Banana Gunz theory of him taking a step back and letting the Matoran live on there own works with my idea of him leaving but having a descendant to keep his legacy alive.

[Xboxtravis]

 

I like what Banana Gunz said. Mata Nui probably had changed his character and was more humble, not wanting to take back control of the Matoran race. I imagine he will return when he knows his people have truly learned to live without him. And whose to say when he returns he will take the guise of Mata-Nui? He could return with a simple body and live among his people in secret.

 

Like, thousands of years later, under the name of Ekimu ?

 

 

*Sees own words used to support opposing view, realizes it kind of makes since*

 

Excuse me know; I am going to eat one of my own shoes...

 

... In all seriousness I still don't think we'll see a G1-G2 connection. But I do have to admit; that idea would be somewhat plausible. 

[ToaTImeLord]

 

 

 

 

I like what Banana Gunz said. Mata Nui probably had changed his character and was more humble, not wanting to take back control of the Matoran race. I imagine he will return when he knows his people have truly learned to live without him. And whose to say when he returns he will take the guise of Mata-Nui? He could return with a simple body and live among his people in secret.

Like, thousands of years later, under the name of Ekimu ?

*Sees own words used to support opposing view, realizes it kind of makes since*

 

Excuse me know; I am going to eat one of my own shoes...

 

... In all seriousness I still don't think we'll see a G1-G2 connection. But I do have to admit; that idea would be somewhat plausible.

Thank You

 

Finally, someone said it.

Even though you say the continuation theory may not happen you would still be okay with it happening.

 

I made a topic a couple of days ago about the continuation theory, you would thing I said Bionicle stinks

(which it doesn't). People where literally arguing over the mere concept of a it and saying anyone who likes the idea is wrong.

 

I needed to hear someone say they be okay with the idea.

So again

thank you.