New Bionicle not worth it?

[Bonkle]

@Tuuli, are you by any chance a YouTube user named Eurico Silva?

That would make my day, honestly.

 

 

 

 

I find it much easier to believe Korgot is stronger than Kivoda than that Taipu is stronger than Macku.

 

Maybe that's true based on their appearances (supporting the fact that there's more emphasis on the sets and builds this time around), but we haven't seen either Korgot or Kivoda in the story. Like, ever unless you count those few seconds when they appeared in the webisodes. Taipu and Macku were definitely more fleshed-out characters and had a lot of personality from the get-go, thanks to the MNOG. Taipu didn't even have a set, and Macku wasn't special even though she had one, but they still had distinctive characters. None of the 2015 Protectors have that, not even Narmoto.

 

We've definitely seen BOTH of them in the story—just not in the animations. Korgot and Kivoda both appeared in both chapter books as well as in the graphic novel. It's debatable whether or not their characterization is as distinct and concrete as that of the MNOG Matoran (characterization being one of that game's strongest suits), but they haven't exactly been lacking for portrayals.

 

 

Good point, I forgot about those. I have neither so I can't really comment on the portrayal of the Protectors there. Speaking of which, I would still praise G1 over the fact that they provided characterization for the Matoran without needing to buy things like books or graphic novels, while none of the free content of G2 gave them personalities. Doesn't mean that the Protectors don't have characters at all, but it's kind of a hinderance that the occasional fan will never be able to see it.

 

 

In my opinion, Okoto is much more detailed and visually interesting than Mata Nui ever was.

 

Everyone has the right to their opinion of course, but... Mata Nui looks like a natural island with an exotic shape and, while it has six distinct elemental territories, they blend together much better than those of Okoto. Okoto looks like a lazily drawn hexagonal island with a mountain range that divides it neatly into six districts in such an unnatural way... I'm not saying Okoto is bad, but I would definitely call it uninspired, whereas Mata Nui clearly has a much more imaginative and aesthetically pleasing approach.

 

 

 

If G2 happened first I would still say Mata-nui was better. If y'all haven't noticed, nothing in this new bionicle is mind blowing, and there will not be a mind blowing ending, as the original bionicle had. And if they wanted to relaunch bionicle so badly then they knew they had a big legacy to live up to, and they've failed to deliver. For a 3 year reboot, they are certainly not delivering a vast and expansive story as the original had. The new story is heavily simplified for all the wrong reasons. Bionicle is more for young kids now than adult collectors. Shouldve known.

Exactly how is Mata Nui better? I'm not talking story or characters, tell me how the island itself is better. 'Cause they look the same to me.

 

 

Again, how do Mata Nui and Okoto look the same? They're completely different islands. The only similarity is the six districts. Which happen to be almost symmetrically divided in Okoto, but blend much better with Mata Nui.

 

When I said that I meant that they're basically the same thing, an island divided into six elemental regions.

There is literally no difference other than shape.

[Tuuli]

If you all haven't noticed, the G2 story WAS going to be about Mata-nui. You can see in the concept art pictures of the matanui island in the 2015 story. Basically, Okoto is a cheap knockoff wannabe Mata-nui, but they didn't want it to be the face island again. But watch as Lego makes the face of matanui under Okoto. It seems that's what they are doing and it feels really cheap. The entirety of Okoto feels cheap. Granted, G2 has its finer elements over G1, but overall it's not up to par. You are lying to yourselves if you think they "fixed bionicle". If anything, it's now just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle slapped on it. And don't tell me it's because " i don't like the hero factory pieces " because I do like the sets, I said this before. The sets are high quality, but the story is not.

[Bonkle]

If you all haven't noticed, the G2 story WAS going to be about Mata-nui. You can see in the concept art pictures of the matanui island in the 2015 story. Basically, Okoto is a cheap knockoff wannabe Mata-nui, but they didn't want it to be the face island again. But watch as Lego makes the face of matanui under Okoto. It seems that's what they are doing and it feels really cheap. The entirety of Okoto feels cheap. Granted, G2 has its finer elements over G1, but overall it's not up to par. You are lying to yourselves if you think they "fixed bionicle". If anything, it's now just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle slapped on it. And don't tell me it's because " i don't like the hero factory pieces " because I do like the sets, I said this before. The sets are high quality, but the story is not.

You can prefer the original Bionicle if you want, but the new one is definitely NOT Hero Factory in any way.

 

And why are the sets high-quality now, earlier today they were cheap because they had the same mask.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Bonkle

[Rooster Nui]

You are lying to yourselves if you think they "fixed bionicle". If anything, it's now just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle slapped on it. And don't tell me it's because " i don't like the hero factory pieces " because I do like the sets, I said this before. The sets are high quality, but the story is not.

Of course it's Hero Factory with Bionicle "slapped onto it." You can consider that all of these types of products are just plastic with LEGO slapped onto them.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Rooster Nui

[Banana Gunz]

If you all haven't noticed, the G2 story WAS going to be about Mata-nui. You can see in the concept art pictures of the matanui island in the 2015 story. Basically, Okoto is a cheap knockoff wannabe Mata-nui, but they didn't want it to be the face island again. But watch as Lego makes the face of matanui under Okoto. It seems that's what they are doing and it feels really cheap. The entirety of Okoto feels cheap. Granted, G2 has its finer elements over G1, but overall it's not up to par. You are lying to yourselves if you think they "fixed bionicle". If anything, it's now just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle slapped on it. And don't tell me it's because " i don't like the hero factory pieces " because I do like the sets, I said this before. The sets are high quality, but the story is not.

 

Hero Factory was very campy and though occasionally alluded to some sort of conclusion, never really went anywhere with its story and characters. Though Bionicle G2 isn't super complex character or story wise, it's still going someplace and has a continuous story. I wish the conflicts had more of an impact and things were a little different, but when I look at it as a simple reboot it's not that bad.

 

Okoto as it is isn't super complex but it is our setting and it looks like they are taking it someplace else. If they were gonna make it exactly like Mata-Nui they would of called it that, but they changed it because they decided it was something different and didn't need to be associated with something else. I do like the geography of Mata-Nui more and it was a little more fleshed out, but I don't think the gap is as large as you're painting it.

 

You're totally entitled to your opinion, and I somewhat agree that G2 isn't as good as G1 because it makes the mistake of trying to be too much like it, but it has enough different that it has its own identity and own path to walk. I just feel like if it were "Hero Factory with Bionicle slapped on it", no one would like it because most people didn't like Hero Factory. I feel like the stories are almost incomparable with Hero Factory being anything but focused.

[CaT in Rogue]

 

In my opinion, Okoto is much more detailed and visually interesting than Mata Nui ever was.

 

Everyone has the right to their opinion of course, but... Mata Nui looks like a natural island with an exotic shape and, while it has six distinct elemental territories, they blend together much better than those of Okoto. Okoto looks like a lazily drawn hexagonal island with a mountain range that divides it neatly into six districts in such an unnatural way... I'm not saying Okoto is bad, but I would definitely call it uninspired, whereas Mata Nui clearly has a much more imaginative and aesthetically pleasing approach.

I don't think I can really argue the point about Mata Nui being better on purely technical aspects, but the unnatural look of Okoto is personally what I find so interesting about it. Mata Nui, though somewhat distinctive in its own right, always felt like 'Mysterious Fantasy Island #267: Lost: The Revengening' to me, whereas Okoto's odd design really sticks out. They could've easily made a smoother-flowing island and basically do Mata Nui all over again, but they went with something new, and each biome looks fantastic in its own right. Again, this is all personal opinion, and different people will like different things, the same way I like chocolate whereas my sister does not.

 

If you all haven't noticed, the G2 story WAS going to be about Mata-nui. You can see in the concept art pictures of the matanui island in the 2015 story.

That's called a 'placeholder'. It's when a company (or anyone, really) uses existing materials to illustrate a point or concept without having the final product on hand.

 

Basically, Okoto is a cheap knockoff wannabe Mata-nui, but they didn't want it to be the face island again. But watch as Lego makes the face of matanui under Okoto. It seems that's what they are doing and it feels really cheap. The entirety of Okoto feels cheap.

I'd argue that whereas Mata Nui took a lot of elements from the Pacific islands, specifically Hawaii and the like, Okoto's theming and designs take a lot more influence from ancient Grecian and Mayan culture. This style is especially noticeable in the abandoned city and the labyrinth that's apparently going to pop up later this year (if the new game is anything to go by). They're very similar, yes, but calling Okoto a 'cheap knockoff' is really stretching it.

 

Granted, G2 has its finer elements over G1, but overall it's not up to par. You are lying to yourselves if you think they "fixed bionicle".

Literally anything they did to this franchise could be considered 'fixing it' after the abomination that was Stars. Besides, the intent was never to 'fix' the Bionicle we grew up with, but to take the themes presented and turn them into something new.

 

If anything, it's now just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle slapped on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ksKETF0f4I

 

>"If anything, it's now just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle slapped on it."

 

>"just Hero Factory with the name Bionicle"

 

>"Hero Factory"

 

 

 

You really want me to get started on Hero Factory right now?

 

Because I really don't think you do.

 

Hero Factory had so much wasted potential that the World Nature Organization is protesting it for polluting the biosphere with mountains of unused greatness. Its character were so flat that year-old Coca Cola is practically frothing by comparison. The amount of pointless cliffhangers makes the entire horror genre look positively conservative. With Bionicle G2, at least the characters are tolerable, at least its story is well-contained, at least it tries something other than the same old kid's show cliches that occupied every single second of Hero Factory's existence.

 

Comparing G2 Bionicle to Hero Factory isn't just stupid or unfair, it's downright dishonest. The only thing these two franchises have in common are the sets, and even those Bionicle did ten times better with. I don't even care if you like G1 better than G2 or whatever, everyone can have their own opinion, and I can see both sides of the issue. It's when they try to enforce that opinion by blatantly ignoring or disregarding the other side's points that really ticks me off.

[Toa Imrukii]

G2 is different that G1 so that younger kids and fans can get into it easier, a less complex story with less complex names and characters to start off, than bringing it into a more detailed and interesting story in the later years, they're not releasing much info because they want people to guess and speculate and find their own answers before the truth is revealed. We were pulled into this world without knowing a thing, but with one goal, to follow along, and isn't that the same basic ideal that the Toa are facing? Perhaps they want us to relate back to them with this new generation, not knowing anything, but learning along the way gradually, making our own ideas and concepts before the truth is revealed.

 

As for the Island of Okoto, yes, it's simple, both in name and design concept, but you shouldn't judge a book by the cover, and Okoto is no exception. Here's something that will keep you going through G2, and it's patience, you can't always get what you want when you want it, and I think that is what LEGO is trying to prevail with this new BIONICLE. The last generation was about (in my eyes) compromise, and the courage and power to keep going and fighting, something good will come, and indeed it came to that.

 

 

Frankly I think that G1 was EXTREMELY cheap in the end, we could see this lack of quality, and overcomplexity all the way back in 2006 which ultimately killed BIONICLE G1, people weren't buying the sets because they were poor quality (not in 2006, but subsequent years. Those lime green piece where the bane of me), and the complex names and words drove people away from buying the sets. Sure, the fans bought the sets, but other than that they didn't sell very well, I mean heck! I still am able to find sets from all the way back to 2006, 2006! Unopened, and unsold in local stores! And heck I have even found sets back from 2009 and 2010 in my local Toys'R'Us! EVEN AFTER THEIR MOVE AND RENOVATION THE SETS FROM THE LAST TWO YEARS OF BIONICLE G1 WEREN'T SOLD AND STILL ON THE SHELVES!!! I Mean, come on! G2 is Cheap? G2 Sucks? G2 is Bad? NO!! G2 is great, it sells, and it's not overly complex! It IS Worth it!

 

All the points that will be brought up of G2 begin bad can and WILL always be brought down, because NONE OF THE POINTS ARE VALID!

 

 

SO YES! BIONICLE G2 IS WORTH iT!

[bionicleFanatic]

I think the 2015 sets were an improvement in the light of the later Bionicle sets: stronger pieces, therefore more MOCability, and a smoother aesthetic. But the storyline is definitely lacking, and in a major way that's due to a lack of MNOG.

MNOG made G1. Without it I wouldn't be the Bionicle fanatic I am. The depth, the mysticism, the personality, and the world-building that Templar managed to give the game surpass any AAA title I can think of.

And this second generation just doesn't have that yet, and I don't expect that they will: unlike back in 2001, lego very rarely takes its audience seriously anymore. They think that they'll find a game like MNOG boring, and in most cases they would be right, as the majority of kids these days are spoon-fed slobs with the attention span of a goldfish (I'm not saying this is the case with everyone: I've met kids who are brighter than most adults. I'm saying this is how an average, 21st century, schools and smartphone-toting kid behaves).

So as sad as it is, we should resign ourselves to the fact that we won't get an updated MNOG, and that we'll have to keep playing the original over and over again (Which I personally don't mind doing []). Hopefully the upcoming Netflix show will breath some life into the island, but until then, my 2015 sets will stay mysteriously transported to Mata Nui.

[Xboxtravis]

^Toa Imrukii; I want to know where this Toys R Us with G1 sets still on the shelves is. Sounds like a fun nostalgia trip.

[Disciple]

Edit: at least you gotta catch all the differently colored masks which help you create characters and mocs or did we forget about that hmmm? Well this bionicle is a "gotta catch em all" of two different sets of golden masks and "elemental creatures" hmmmmmmmmmm....

 

Keep in mind that the Protector mask is the first BIONICLE mask we've gotten in all six elemental colors since 2003. That's a huge boon for MOCists like you and I.

 

And although the web animations depict ALL villagers as wearing the Protector mask-- which I believe was one of your other critiques-- the graphic novel "Gathering of the Toa" makes it pretty clear that only the Protectors wear those shapes. The other villagers in the comic clearly wear masks with designs that are similar, but with notable differences. Still, I hear you loud and clear on the need for more mask molds-- I'd certainly like to get my hands on some generic, non-Protector villager masks in the future.

 

It's not my intention to be an "apologist" for G2 BIONICLE. Like you, I think the story could use some more meat, but I'm withholding that judgment until I see the Netflix series this year. I've been a fan since 2001, and I'm grateful for what LEGO has provided with G2 so far. And as with any LEGO property, keep in mind that you can always ditch the official story and make up your own. I know plenty of people did that in G1, and it seemed to increase their enjoyment.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Disciple

[Toa Imrukii]

^Toa Imrukii; I want to know where this Toys R Us with G1 sets still on the shelves is. Sounds like a fun nostalgia trip.

 

Well, now I do believe that the sets aren't being sold on the shelves anymore due to G2 being release. and divulging it's location will divulge where I live but...

 

Here and Here

Edited January 24, 2016 by Toa Imrukii

[Xboxtravis]

Pity they pulled them off the shelves once G2 arrived. I would love to buy a few of the Glatorian sets I missed. The Glatorian Mata Nui almost got me back into Bionicle in 2009 (After 8 years Mata Nui was finally a set!) but I passed on it then. I think all the late G1 sets are still on Bricklink rather cheap though.

 

However I live in the Western US so we're you live is a long trip.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Xboxtravis

[CaT in Rogue]

the majority of kids these days are spoon-fed slobs with the attention span of a goldfish (I'm not saying this is the case with everyone: I've met kids who are brighter than most adults. I'm saying this is how an average, 21st century, schools and smartphone-toting kid behaves).

 

 

The only reason kids seem dumber today is because you didn't realize how stupid you and everyone around you were when you were kids. This ain't rocket science man, stop being so stuck-up.

[Electric Light Gunhaver]

First of all, you have the sets. The Toa of 2015 were perfect to kick start bionicle and they are amazing sets, but then you look at the protectors and think "wow, why do they all have the same mask?" And its true, why do they? In the bionicle I knew, the matoran always had different masks. It was a defining feature of who they are and gives them personality. All we got are these "turaga-wannabe" matoran who are only different in the fact they are different colors and slightly different builds. But it goes even further than that, the story of 2015 bionicle felt rather cheap and gimmicky. It seems like Lego is just cashing in on the name "Bionicle" so they can produce sets with a cheapened storyline to grab more cash. Now again, I do like the sets and none of the sets themselves are cheap, but the storyline feels too rushed and the lack of world building is awful.

The thing about the masks on the Matoran from 2001-2003 is that without snippets of dialogue or the actions they took, they were the ONLY thing that separated them from the others. The Matoran released in 2001 had the exact same build, and the masks they had were just recolors of the Toa's masks. It is not a fair argument to claim that the Matoran of G1 are superior to the Protectors of G2 solely because the Protectors have the same mask shape. Lego has not needed to rely on recolored Toa masks to define each Protector, as they have all different build structures. Although, I myself would rather have each Protector have his or her own mask. But that does not mean they NEED them.

 

This is not the Bionicle you knew, nor the Bionicle anyone who has experienced G1 knew, and it will cease to be until it is over. 

[Xboxtravis]

I doubt Tuuli is Eurico. Tuuli said he has collected all the 2015 Toa. Eurico Silva was throwing Lewa out a window...

 

The funny thing is that the debate in this topic has gotten so heated on both sides. After someone mentioned Silva I watched some of his videos and read the comments; and those comments were a pure flame war!

 

And some of the current concerns for Bionicle stem from the current 2016 wave. I think it goes without saying; while the 2015 sets were well received; the 2016 sets have a very mixed reception. In that sense I think I agree that I am a tad concerned with some desicions Lego took with the 2016 Toa. However that doesn't change my opinion on the 2015 Toa being the best Toa in Bionicle history.

 

With that said, if Lego wants Bionicle to be a long running theme, its future hinges on two things 1) the 2017 sets and 2) the success of the Netflix series. If Bionicle fizzles by the end of 2017, we can agree that it sadly was a dud. But if the line continues strong into 2018 we'll know that it has found its place in Lego's corporate vision.

[Banana Gunz]

 

the majority of kids these days are spoon-fed slobs with the attention span of a goldfish (I'm not saying this is the case with everyone: I've met kids who are brighter than most adults. I'm saying this is how an average, 21st century, schools and smartphone-toting kid behaves).

 

*pure gold has been snipped*

 

The only reason kids seem dumber today is because you didn't realize how stupid you and everyone around you were when you were kids. This ain't rocket science man, stop being so stuck-up.

 

 

BTW this rant isn't directly aimed at either of the people quoted but the subject and certain aspects of one of them garnered me to feel like writing about it. This is more of a qualification in the ideas presented by them.

 

Many people have such a negative perception of children nowadays simply because they've reached a point where they have lost the connection and don't understand them. Young children and even pre-teens are some of the most beautiful creatures in the universe. Youths are actually very different nowadays than the youths of long ago. They are consistently being exposed to more information per minute than kids were just in the not-too-distant past. Though so much information can be negative and disturbing, it's actually causing a huge spike in mental growth, causing many to become mentally more mature from being exposed to many topics that are considered less appropriate or too thoughtful for kids. Sure, as many ridiculous songs, tropes and unfunny jokes they absorb, they also catch many more insightful ideas and such floating around. You can absorb infinite amounts of garbage media, but sometimes one piece of truth can make a large difference. Children think faster and faster all the time, and for some that gives them the impression that they have the "attention span of a gold-fish", but if anything it shows an acceleration in the mind with so much information being available. If anything, it's making kids smarter and more adept. What they're not learning about life in school, they may be finding on the internet. There is a greater consciousness available now in youth than ever before, and though there are tons of stupid kids obsessed with their phones and gossip, the amount of intelligent, aware and thoughtful kids is growing far greater too. Many are beginning to develop opinions on and understandings of important subjects now that kids just two decades ago could've cared less about. As the population grows larger and the competition to establish a good life becomes less and less reasonable and less possible, kids are put under more stress now than they ever have before. Many are being deprived of good, long healthy childhoods because they're slaving away for some unreal future people think is going to help them, and yet some people still have the audacity to call kids nowadays stupid when more and more are becoming smarter then they ever will be. Though there are patterns in time, history does not repeat in the sense people think. If that were the case, then we'd still be in cavemen, and not consistently growing from technology and socially becoming more qualified, conscious, and open than ever before. More and more our kids are not being spoon fed, they're being funneled into a system that is trying to force them to grow up too early and make them focus on work that doesn't grow them rather than live good and simpler childhoods that stimulates them and helps them build an identity. The human race is evolving, and it's because of them, not because of idiots that look on the youth and spurn them and kill their imaginations for being what they are rather than actually being good, caring, responsible adults that are making the world a better place. Humanity is going through a puberty of sorts, and our youth is not just a reflection of it, but the actual action itself. So many are ignorant and stupid which is why they try to lose themselves in their phones and small unimportant aspects of the world, but so many are becoming more aware and caring than adults these days that simply stand around and let their planet die. This is more and more becoming a stronger and more real contrast, and that confusion in youth, that strange split between ignorance and awareness is humanities puberty, because we are on the path to becoming something stronger and greater if we don't kill ourselves first. To all you adults who think they're so stupid and you're so smart, open your eyes, because the world isn't about you. More and more kids are growing up in divorce, neglect, carelessness, unrealistically high expectation in school and in life. Rather than giving your kids an ipad/iphone so they could screw off, spend time with them and care for them, instead of draining them of their creativity and imagination by shaming them for being who they were. All they want is to be understood, and if all you do is look down on them you won't realize how they are the future and humanity itself, not a bad byproduct of it.

 

Sorry this got so off topic... but I guess to link it back I will say this: That's why Bionicle G2 is worth it, because though the story line is simple, it has enough wonder and ideas to capture the hearts of the youth and give them something pleasant to experience. The story line in its simplicity become more open and more accessible to kids and more free for them to enter in their large intakes of media and information. It's a story about good vs evil, and the more they think about these things, the stronger they'll be as individuals. It's make them question WHY Makuta acted the way he did, his motivations and what good and evil are, and what the emotions one feels can do to them. Though G2 could use some stronger and meatier story, it has enough interest to become something greater going forward. It's not HF to me, it's not garbage, and it's not a waste of time.

[Grungemeister]

 

the majority of kids these days are spoon-fed slobs with the attention span of a goldfish (I'm not saying this is the case with everyone: I've met kids who are brighter than most adults. I'm saying this is how an average, 21st century, schools and smartphone-toting kid behaves).

-snipped images-

The only reason kids seem dumber today is because you didn't realize how stupid you and everyone around you were when you were kids. This ain't rocket science man, stop being so stuck-up.

 

This. I'd recommend this video to you guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0x7ho_IYc Kids aren't more stupid, you're just biased.

[Irrie]

I was going to write a really long post to counter OP's arguments, but everything that can be said has been said. 

[Toatapio Nuva]

 

That it was an island full of personality and characters and a large backstory and history, rather than "okay so we're on an elemental pie and skull spiders are attacking so let's call upon the heroes so they can collect 2 sets of golden masks and awaken the mask maker" Also, we actually know what mata nui looks like as we were able to fully explore it, and it actually had real names and everything Okoto is just "region of fire, region of earth, etc." And then "the ancient city" it's all just a cheap storyline to mimic the old storyline claiming that the series is "rebooted"

 

Edit: at least you gotta catch all the differently colored masks which help you create characters and mocs or did we forget about that hmmm? Well this bionicle is a "gotta catch em all" of two different sets of golden masks and "elemental creatures" hmmmmmmmmmm....

Except that you could replace some words in your story summary and you would have the same story as 2001 Bionicle: "okay so we're on an elemental pie and skull spiders Rahi are attacking so let's call upon the heroes so they can collect 2 6 sets of normal masks to make golden masks and awaken the mask maker Great Spirit"

The point is, G2 carries on in the same spirit of G1 to me. It's a similar story and the point is to make new fans say "wow, this is cool!" while old fans say "this reminds me of G1. It's a little different, but I like the allusions and similar story". Remember, old fans also said "wow, this is cool!" in the first place.

As for the "cheapened story line", I would argue that Lego just thinks it will work better for kids now. G1 was "ancient mystery, tribal robots and complex lore", while G2 reminds me more of a comic book, for lack of a better term. It's not worse, it's just different.

 

 

The premise is similar, sure, but the main difference comes from the worldbuilding and feel of culture - G2 has displayed barely any so far, whereas G1 already had a strong sense of culture and mysticism in 2001, even though the story was simple.

 

 

 

 

In my opinion, Okoto is much more detailed and visually interesting than Mata Nui ever was.

 

Everyone has the right to their opinion of course, but... Mata Nui looks like a natural island with an exotic shape and, while it has six distinct elemental territories, they blend together much better than those of Okoto. Okoto looks like a lazily drawn hexagonal island with a mountain range that divides it neatly into six districts in such an unnatural way... I'm not saying Okoto is bad, but I would definitely call it uninspired, whereas Mata Nui clearly has a much more imaginative and aesthetically pleasing approach.

 

I don't think I can really argue the point about Mata Nui being better on purely technical aspects, but the unnatural look of Okoto is personally what I find so interesting about it. Mata Nui, though somewhat distinctive in its own right, always felt like 'Mysterious Fantasy Island #267: Lost: The Revengening' to me, whereas Okoto's odd design really sticks out. They could've easily made a smoother-flowing island and basically do Mata Nui all over again, but they went with something new, and each biome looks fantastic in its own right. Again, this is all personal opinion, and different people will like different things, the same way I like chocolate whereas my sister does not.

 

 

You sister doesn't like chocolate?!

 

Yeah, I will agree that Okoto is interesting, and it had clearly been inspired by some of the earlier concept art for Mata Nui. I'm disappointed with its exaggerated simplicity, but not its potential.

 

Comparing G2 Bionicle to Hero Factory isn't just stupid or unfair, it's downright dishonest. The only thing these two franchises have in common are the sets, and even those Bionicle did ten times better with. I don't even care if you like G1 better than G2 or whatever, everyone can have their own opinion, and I can see both sides of the issue. It's when they try to enforce that opinion by blatantly ignoring or disregarding the other side's points that really ticks me off.

 

I agree, 100%. Arguing about the superiority of G1 or G2 is one thing, but throwing Hero Factory in the mix is completely ignoring the fact that they're two entirely different LEGO lines, with Hero Fatory mainly serving as a placeholder till Bionicle could return. They're not interchangeable.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Toatapio Nuva

[GSR]

Aaaand this is the part where the staff steps in.

 

It's fine to have disagreements; it's not fine to then reduce the topic to slinging mud at each other.  If people disagree with you, you should then engage with their argument, acknowledge when the other side has valid points, and not make posts that boil down to "you're just wrong/stupid, I'm not even going to bother."  If you're not going to bother, then why post at all?

 

I'm cleaning out some posts that don't really add anything to the topic besides personal attacks and/or thread-complaining.  If yours vanished, think very carefully about how and if you need to repost it.  (And for the love of all that is good, please don't bring YouTube drama into topics.)

 

Get back on topic, tone down the flames, and keep it civil.

Edited January 25, 2016 by GSR

[fishers64]

You really want me to get started on Hero Factory right now?

 

Because I really don't think you do.

 

Hero Factory had so much wasted potential that the World Nature Organization is protesting it for polluting the biosphere with mountains of unused greatness. Its character were so flat that year-old Coca Cola is practically frothing by comparison. The amount of pointless cliffhangers makes the entire horror genre look positively conservative. With Bionicle G2, at least the characters are tolerable, at least its story is well-contained, at least it tries something other than the same old kid's show cliches that occupied every single second of Hero Factory's existence.

 

Comparing G2 Bionicle to Hero Factory isn't just stupid or unfair, it's downright dishonest. The only thing these two franchises have in common are the sets, and even those Bionicle did ten times better with. I don't even care if you like G1 better than G2 or whatever, everyone can have their own opinion, and I can see both sides of the issue. It's when they try to enforce that opinion by blatantly ignoring or disregarding the other side's points that really ticks me off.

You know what, buddy, I agree with you. Have a high five: >_>^^<__<

 

Well put. 

 

Is LEGO cashing in on the name BIONICLE?  Yes.  Just like they did every year post-2001.  Once the brand took off they "cashed in" on it for 8-9 years.

 

Is the new BIONICLE a cash grab?  Yes.  If you want to be astoundingly cynical about it, that is.  LEGO's a business, so they do things to make money.

 

Yes, in the same way everything LEGO does is a money grab. They're a business. They're trying to make money.

 

Show me a business that isn't driven by profits and I'll show you a liar.

 

Okay, reality check here. Lego is a toy company that isn't publicly traded and doesn't answer to any shareholders. Toys, in and of themselves, aren't necessary for human life, so if that company stopped making money tomorrow, no big deal. Money isn't reason for a toy company to exist - especially one that isn't paying any stakeholders.

 

Here's the Lego Group's real mission statement:  

 

Mission:

‘Inspire and develop the builders of tomorrow’

Our ultimate purpose is to inspire and develop children to think creatively, reason systematically and release their potential to shape their own future - experiencing the endless human possibility.

 

Vision:

‘Inventing the future of play’

We want to pioneer new ways of playing, play materials and the business models of play - leveraging globalisation and digitalisation...it is not just about products, it is about realising the human possibility.

http://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/lego-group/mission-and-vision

 

Now, they aren't going to inspire children to develop and think creatively by making poor business decisions like investing too much in a brand new line or keeping an old dying story alive that has nothing to do with building. They aren't going to inspire builders by not selling them the sets that they would build with. They are trying to give builders a set of tools and inspire them with their creative vision. 

 

In other words, they have to be a viable business in order to fulfill their mission statement. However, their mission statement doesn't say they have to make money selling building sets. That's just the best way they think with fulfill this mission right now. But they also could use other means to fulfill this mission in the future, because that is what they are truly all about. 

 

Not money. Not profits. Those are just tools to see this mission and vision through. 

 

Going back to Bionicle, I definitely think that the story of Bionicle is an inspiration to children and builders everywhere. We're all here - and the creative forums of this very website exist - because of that. And I think they tried to go after this mission in that work on G2. That's why you see all the paintings, MoCs, contests, and designer videos on the Lego Bionicle facebook page - it's supposed to be building inspiration - and TLG earns zero money from those trappings. 

 

And I will be the first to agree that Bionicle G2's story is nowhere near as inspiring as the original. They are not living up to their mission statement there as much as they could have. Lego still hasn't learned that crummy story doesn't inspire anybody...except to go build an RPG to "improve" the story so that it is better.

 

But then again, this is only "2002", folks. The original Bionicle story didn't inspire me until late 2003.

 

---------------------

 

Finally, I'll throw this out there because I know someone will bring it up if I don't - one of the factors that contributed to G1's ending was that kids were just following the story without buying the sets. They weren't being inspired to build or think creatively as much as they were inspired to just sit around consuming story in a vegging way. This didn't work.

 

Obviously, the reason the line was canceled had to do with money. But I think the money was a symptom of the above problem, not the cause.  

 

Anyway, that is my mildly informative rant for the day. I expect many complaints.  

[CaT in Rogue]

 

You really want me to get started on Hero Factory right now?

 

Because I really don't think you do.

 

Hero Factory had so much wasted potential that the World Nature Organization is protesting it for polluting the biosphere with mountains of unused greatness. Its character were so flat that year-old Coca Cola is practically frothing by comparison. The amount of pointless cliffhangers makes the entire horror genre look positively conservative. With Bionicle G2, at least the characters are tolerable, at least its story is well-contained, at least it tries something other than the same old kid's show cliches that occupied every single second of Hero Factory's existence.

 

Comparing G2 Bionicle to Hero Factory isn't just stupid or unfair, it's downright dishonest. The only thing these two franchises have in common are the sets, and even those Bionicle did ten times better with. I don't even care if you like G1 better than G2 or whatever, everyone can have their own opinion, and I can see both sides of the issue. It's when they try to enforce that opinion by blatantly ignoring or disregarding the other side's points that really ticks me off.

 

You know what, buddy, I agree with you. Have a high five: >_>^^<__<

 

Well put.

 

Is LEGO cashing in on the name BIONICLE? Yes. Just like they did every year post-2001. Once the brand took off they "cashed in" on it for 8-9 years.

 

Is the new BIONICLE a cash grab? Yes. If you want to be astoundingly cynical about it, that is. LEGO's a business, so they do things to make money.

 

Yes, in the same way everything LEGO does is a money grab. They're a business. They're trying to make money.

 

Show me a business that isn't driven by profits and I'll show you a liar.

 

Okay, reality check here. Lego is a toy company that isn't publicly traded and doesn't answer to any shareholders. Toys, in and of themselves, aren't necessary for human life, so if that company stopped making money tomorrow, no big deal. Money isn't reason for a toy company to exist - especially one that isn't paying any stakeholders.

 

Here's the Lego Group's real mission statement:

 

Mission:

‘Inspire and develop the builders of tomorrow’

Our ultimate purpose is to inspire and develop children to think creatively, reason systematically and release their potential to shape their own future - experiencing the endless human possibility.

Vision:

‘Inventing the future of play’

We want to pioneer new ways of playing, play materials and the business models of play - leveraging globalisation and digitalisation...it is not just about products, it is about realising the human possibility.

 

http://www.lego.com/en-us/aboutus/lego-group/mission-and-vision

 

Now, they aren't going to inspire children to develop and think creatively by making poor business decisions like investing too much in a brand new line or keeping an old dying story alive that has nothing to do with building. They aren't going to inspire builders by not selling them the sets that they would build with. They are trying to give builders a set of tools and inspire them with their creative vision.

 

In other words, they have to be a viable business in order to fulfill their mission statement. However, their mission statement doesn't say they have to make money selling building sets. That's just the best way they think with fulfill this mission right now. But they also could use other means to fulfill this mission in the future, because that is what they are truly all about.

 

Not money. Not profits. Those are just tools to see this mission and vision through.

 

Going back to Bionicle, I definitely think that the story of Bionicle is an inspiration to children and builders everywhere. We're all here - and the creative forums of this very website exist - because of that. And I think they tried to go after this mission in that work on G2. That's why you see all the paintings, MoCs, contests, and designer videos on the Lego Bionicle facebook page - it's supposed to be building inspiration - and TLG earns zero money from those trappings.

 

And I will be the first to agree that Bionicle G2's story is nowhere near as inspiring as the original. They are not living up to their mission statement there as much as they could have. Lego still hasn't learned that crummy story doesn't inspire anybody...except to go build an RPG to "improve" the story so that it is better.

 

But then again, this is only "2002", folks. The original Bionicle story didn't inspire me until late 2003.

 

---------------------

 

Finally, I'll throw this out there because I know someone will bring it up if I don't - one of the factors that contributed to G1's ending was that kids were just following the story without buying the sets. They weren't being inspired to build or think creatively as much as they were inspired to just sit around consuming story in a vegging way. This didn't work.

 

Obviously, the reason the line was canceled had to do with money. But I think the money was a symptom of the above problem, not the cause.

 

Anyway, that is my mildly informative rant for the day. I expect many complaints.

Less of a 'complaint' and more of a 'counter-argument'. I'd like to believe that Lego's functions are centered around their mission statement, but most companies only put that out there for PR purposes.

 

In addition, Lego is kind of terrible about giving things proper conclusions. The story team for Bionicle had to beg them for one more wave of sets so they could wrap up the story, resulting in the supreme lack of caring known as the Stars toyline.

 

Lego's probably one of the better businesses out there, but it's not exactly all flowers and roses. They are a business, and they need to make money so that they, and by extension, everyone that works for them, can make a living.

 

Also, in one last point for the 'money-grabbing' category, four words:

 

Angry. Birds. Movie. Sets.

 

The only thing that inspires me to do is hit my head against the wall for several hours.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Kung Fu Burnout

[Fry]

Hey BzP I just want to say Bionicle is back and is better than ever! Or... Is it? I've been collecting the new bionicle sets since the start of last year and now seeing the winter wave sets of this year, I can't help but think this year is no different than 2015. I am starting to believe Bionicle is cheaper than it looks. First of all, you have the sets. The Toa of 2015 were perfect to kick start bionicle and they are amazing sets, but then you look at the protectors and think "wow, why do they all have the same mask?" And its true, why do they? In the bionicle I knew, the matoran always had different masks. It was a defining feature of who they are and gives them personality. All we got are these "turaga-wannabe" matoran who are only different in the fact they are different colors and slightly different builds. But it goes even further than that, the story of 2015 bionicle felt rather cheap and gimmicky. It seems like Lego is just cashing in on the name "Bionicle" so they can produce sets with a cheapened storyline to grab more cash. Now again, I do like the sets and none of the sets themselves are cheap, but the storyline feels too rushed and the lack of world building is awful.

 

Then we look at this year's storyline and sets, and I can't help but think "is this just another money grab?" Well in actuality it is, and its clear that this year they did not have as much funds for the story as they did last year. It's like they cheapened the story even further. I do not know if I'll collect the newest bionicles at once so soon, but I wonder if anyone else feels like the new bionicle is no more than a gimmick?

 

http://cache.lego.com/r/www/r/bionicle/-/media/franchises/bionicle%202014/wallpapers/wallpaper-okoto-2524x2524.jpg?l.r2=-394090373

 

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/bionicle/images/6/68/Mata_Nui_Island.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120310160140

Well, they're not trying with the new Bionicle. The only reason 2001 was so immersive was it was either that, or Lego going bankrupt

[Banana Gunz]

 

*snip*

You know what, buddy, I agree with you. Have a high five: >_>^^<__<

 

Well put. 

 

Is LEGO cashing in on the name BIONICLE?  Yes.  Just like they did every year post-2001.  Once the brand took off they "cashed in" on it for 8-9 years.

 

Is the new BIONICLE a cash grab?  Yes.  If you want to be astoundingly cynical about it, that is.  LEGO's a business, so they do things to make money.

 

Yes, in the same way everything LEGO does is a money grab. They're a business. They're trying to make money.

 

Show me a business that isn't driven by profits and I'll show you a liar.

 

*snip*

 

Mission:

‘Inspire and develop the builders of tomorrow’

Our ultimate purpose is to inspire and develop children to think creatively, reason systematically and release their potential to shape their own future - experiencing the endless human possibility.

 

Vision:

‘Inventing the future of play’

We want to pioneer new ways of playing, play materials and the business models of play - leveraging globalisation and digitalisation...it is not just about products, it is about realising the human possibility.

 

*snip*

 

 

Nah, overall very lovely post lol, no complaints here.

 

I'm just used to the idea that large places being profit driven, like Hollywood. Though they create some wonderful art, a lot of it doesn't get made because studio's only want to make what sells, which is why we're still gonna get a Transformers 5 by Michael Bay and it's still gonna be atrocious because people are still gonna buy tickets to see it. It's just hard to really imagine an honest company though. And though I don't think you're wrong, because though LEGO is one of the more moral companies I've seen, but if a theme like Chima isn't making the money they were hoping it would, they're not typically going to continue making and selling sets for it people children just aren't interested in it, even if they did tons of studies showing how it's plot might be stimulating or the sets inspire creativity. I guess from then on it's perspective. We can imagine them think "OH! This theme isn't making us money! Cancel it!" or "Oh! This theme isn't making much money, so kids must not be interested or creatively stimulated by it, let's cancel it!"

 

Though an example to prove your point could probably be Bionicle itself. Bionicle was losing profits towards the end, and the fact that LEGO brought it back was probably because they realized how strongly it resonated with kids even to garner a fan base and decided that if done right, it would be an excellent idea that they could revisit that kids would buy because it works with them. I dunno, business is a crazee

 

But overall, you're right. LEGO is a pretty great company considering all things. No wonder it originated from Denmark, lol. I guess everyone's just distrustful of large businesses and corporations, that we lose faith in even the one's that give back to us.

 

 

And Hero Factory was a sad load of missed opportunity. But overall I feel like the concept for it was weird to me as a kid. I remember hearing "We Build Hero's" and I thought "But that's not how hero's are made! They're made through hardship and doing good!". I think that as a followup line it was disappointing, because though I remembered being super bummed about Bionicle being canceled, it's amazing to think what it would've been like to see if its "replacement" was really, really good. HF just lacked everything Bionicle had, and though Bionicle G2 doesn't have as much depth as G1 for me, at least it tries and does things that HF was too ham-fisted and unsubtle to ever try.

[Aanchir]

Well, they're not trying with the new Bionicle. The only reason 2001 was so immersive was it was either that, or Lego going bankrupt

I don't think it's fair to say that they're not trying, or that they couldn't come up with a great and immersive story except out of desperation. LEGO Ninjago is nearly as in-depth as Bionicle was in 2001 if not more so, but it came about after the LEGO Group had largely recovered from their turn-of-the-century slump.

 

I think all things considered, the biggest differences in "immersiveness" between 2001 and 2015 can all be chalked up to the Mata Nui Online Game, which was extraordinary even for its day. Outside the MNOG, characterization for the Toa, Turaga, and Matoran in 2001 was not really any deeper than characterization for the Toa and Protectors in 2015. Nor was there a whole lot of world-building in 2001 aside from MNOG — all we got were short snippets describing the regions/villages, same as in 2015.

 

LEGO has never had any online game as immersive as MNOG, and to this day I wonder if there's a reason for that. None of us are aware of internal details like how much the Mata Nui Online Game cost, how much activity it brought to the website, or how many Customer Service calls LEGO got from players who got frustrated. What we do know is that the developers of MNOG struggled to meet deadlines, that the Mata Nui Online Game was complicated enough for players that LEGO added an in-depth FAQ and walkthrough (something I don't think they've done for any other game), that future versions of MNOG had to make changes like giving you the lightstone from the start to simplify it, and that the sequel to MNOG was riddled with bugs.

 

So is it really any surprise that nowadays LEGO online games tend to be so much simpler and less cerebral? A point-and-click fighting game or platformer may not be great for world-building or characterization, but nevertheless they're probably a lot easier to develop than a story-driven adventure game, and kids of all ages can play them without a whole lot of hand-holding.

[Xboxtravis]

LEGO has never had any online game as immersive as MNOG, and to this day I wonder if there's a reason for that. None of us are aware of internal details like how much the Mata Nui Online Game cost, how much activity it brought to the website, or how many Customer Service calls LEGO got from players who got frustrated. What we do know is that the developers of MNOG struggled to meet deadlines, that the Mata Nui Online Game was complicated enough for players that LEGO added an in-depth FAQ and walkthrough (something I don't think they've done for any other game), that future versions of MNOG had to make changes like giving you the lightstone from the start to simplify it, and that the sequel to MNOG was riddled with bugs.

 

So is it really any surprise that nowadays LEGO online games tend to be so much simpler and less cerebral? A point-and-click fighting game or platformer may not be great for world-building or characterization, but nevertheless they're probably a lot easier to develop than a story-driven adventure game, and kids of all ages can play them without a whole lot of hand-holding.

It's true, as a 7 year old trying to play MNOG in 2001 I solved Ga-Koro and that was it. I wandered circles around Po-Koro for ever, until I somehow managed to solve the epidemic. Then I stumbled thru Onu-Koro. If I was really lucky I got to Le-Koro just to hear the Disco Wagner Music. I never got to Ko-Koro in 2001; and didn't get there until MNOG was Re-released several years later.

 

Still that bit of Ga-Koro that I successfully completed was the BEST Toy commercial ever in my young mind. Not knowing yet that I was playing Takua, I was convinced the protagonist of MNOG was myself. That 7 year old me was visiting Mata-Nui; and that I found a magic gear which saved all the blue Bonkles from drowning; and then Gali showed up and kicked some can! I even tried sketching a stick figure comic of me saving Ga-Koro...

 

That is why it is a bit annoying that Lego hasn't yet done any large scale world building for G2 (again, hoping for a good Netflix show here!). Kids actually CAN recognize when there is a big world and a story to be told. Why else do you think little kids who love Star Wars can name every starship seen in the movies?

 

Besides as a Kid, by the time I was 10 I loved reading the Bionicle chapter books. It's the right age to be exposed to reading bigger stories, and Greg's books were on the shelf of every Wal Mart and bookstore. Again, pity that Rider Wyndham's new books aren't as widely distributed as Greg's once were.

 

So here is hoping that Journey to One changes our perception of G2!

Edited January 25, 2016 by Xboxtravis

[Jeffery Mewtamer]

I never got into Bionicle G1 on either front(Younger me was bitter over the discontinuation of Throwbots, then my love of building toys took a backseat to other interests, and by the time interest in Lego products resurfaced, Bionicle had been discontinued), but it seems a long standing problem with western media: If the story is good, the toys are usually an afterthought to cash-in on the story's success, and if the toys are good, the story serves mainly as extended ads. Most of the franchises I can think of that display quality on both fronts are Japanese, and even then, the good stuff is often import only.

 

Also, just because the target audience is children, that doesn't mean you have to alienate everyone outside the target audience. Again, this seems to be something few American producers(I know Lego is based in Europe, but I don't have as much experience with European media) understand even if their creative teams do.

 

I do have to agree the "elemental pie" strategy to world design sounds quite uninspired, especially since the one-planet version of the Throwbots/Slizer story line utilized it as well.

 

Also, even if most of it ends up only as background information posted on a website or in a pulp-quality paperback, its not like it costs that much to give the writers a blank check for fleshing out lore, writing sidestories, or expanding events that were glossed over in the more visual media. After all, the written word doesn't have the constraints most other mediums have.

 

As for the collectible aspects, as described above, G1 mask collecting gives me a Trading Card vibe and G2 Mask collecting gives me a Happy Meal Toys vibe. Neither give me a Pokemon vibe, and I say that as someone whose played at least two versions of every mean seris title from Red to Platinum plus SoulSilver and White with Vision loss being the only reason I haven't played newer Pokemon titles.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Jeffery Mewtamer

[Daler99]

I have to disagree. The Protectors may all have the same mask, but they're the most unique villager sets that we've had since 2006, and the most complex we've ever had. Also, other than the Turaga in 2001, villager sets generally didn't have unique masks prior to 2008 — they just reused masks from other sets. The Protectors may share their masks with each other rather than with other sets, but that doesn't make the cost of new molds any smaller. And while the story definitely takes a "back to basics" approach, I don't think it's fair to call it "cheap". Not when in just one year we got more free animated content (both in terms of number of webisodes and total amount of new footage) than any year previously.

 

Rather than a cash grab, I think the LEGO Group's approach to the Bionicle reboot shows that they're "playing it safe", on some levels. They have tried not to go overboard with new molds, one of the things that made the later years of G1 so much less profitable than the earlier years. They also sought to return to a web-based storytelling strategy like they had in the theme's early years, and create sets and stories that re-imagine some of the most timeless aspects of Bionicle. Overall, I think that shows a lot of effort to try and make the Bionicle reboot the best theme it can be.

I agree with Aanchir on this.

 

Something else to mention is this:  If BIONICLE has a lower story budget this year, why are we getting a Netfilx series instead of more webisodes (I loved the webisodes, btw.)?

[fishers64]

Less of a 'complaint' and more of a 'counter-argument'. I'd like to believe that Lego's functions are centered around their mission statement, but most companies only put that out there for PR purposes.

I'd like to think that Lego is a little better than most companies. Most companies are just manipulating customers to get more money with brand loyalty and low low prices. Lego doesn't really do that - the name "City" doesn't inspire loyalty the way "Barbie" does, and Lego's prices are kind of high compared to other toys...but they don't lower them.

 

People buy Lego because it's Lego, and Lego stands for something, even if it's just high product quality in comparison to Mega Bloks.

 

In addition, Lego is kind of terrible about giving things proper conclusions. The story team for Bionicle had to beg them for one more wave of sets so they could wrap up the story, resulting in the supreme lack of caring known as the Stars toyline.

I agree with this, but how is it relevant to what I was saying about mission statements?

 

Lego's probably one of the better businesses out there, but it's not exactly all flowers and roses. They are a business, and they need to make money so that they, and by extension, everyone that works for them, can make a living.

True. But if Lego did not exist, those employees could find a job elsewhere. Apart from that mission statement, Lego doesn't have to exist.

 

Also, in one last point for the 'money-grabbing' category, four words:

 

Angry. Birds. Movie. Sets.

 

The only thing that inspires me to do is hit my head against the wall for several hours.

But I like those sets. They're cute.

 

One man's wall-banger is another man's inspiration. I don't find the Friends sets or the City sets inspiring either - "Yawn, another fire truck." - but somebody does.

[-Windrider-]

The topic starter has contacted me and asked that this be closed. If someone else would like to create a new thread to continue the current topic of discussion, please feel free.

 

However - I would like to echo GSR here:

 

Aaaand this is the part where the staff steps in.

 

It's fine to have disagreements; it's not fine to then reduce the topic to slinging mud at each other.  If people disagree with you, you should then engage with their argument, acknowledge when the other side has valid points, and not make posts that boil down to "you're just wrong/stupid, I'm not even going to bother."  If you're not going to bother, then why post at all?

 

I don't mean to monopolize the last word, but honestly, the above words need to be taken into consideration, no matter what the topic, by no matter whom. I've seen too many topics on this site dissolve into this mud-slinging. I won't repeat the citation above, but I want to add - think about how this reflects on our community, and think about how this affects new and old members alike.

Edited January 25, 2016 by -Windrider-