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So, what happened to the Fans?


Xboxtravis

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What disgusts me most is that there are so many people out there that claim BZPower to be the "4chan of the Bionicle community", yet, from what I've seen, we're probably the most relaxed out of all major Bionicle fan-sites; There's not many, if any, arguments going on.

 

Considering the same person complains about BZP having "more 'SJWS'", I am perfectly content to dunk their opinion in the garbage where it belongs. Outside of some past heated discussions, BZPower's progressiveness only really shows itself in its intolerance policies (which any civil forum should have), or the occasional more nuanced look at the story.

 

(And, as Lyichir pointed out, being more progressive than other Bionicle sites would be the opposite of being the 4chan of the Bionicle community, considering last I checked, 4chan prided itself on being the most disgusting haven of bigotry on the internet.)

 

I never knew any of this stuff was going on, and I had to look up what 'SJW' was. I must really be out of the loop.

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The reason I imagine people are getting so hostile is partly because of the romours surrounding the end of G2. For clarification the romours supposedly came from a legit source. Someone claimed to have talked with someone who had connections with the Lego group and they supposedly said that bionicle wasn't selling too well at the moment. Although I would like to remind people that I don't believe the person claiming this provided any evidence that they had this discussion. So it should be taken with a huge grain of salt. With that out the way assuming this source can be trusted this does present a real possibility that next year will be the last. This will cause a lot of the people who don't like G2 to feel validated and hence become more vocal. It also doesn't help that the summer wave has got a very mixed reaction which will further add to negativity. Simply put I think it's just different things happening at the same time and it'll blow over. 

I know this is not as logical but maybe our ages are also a logical contribution to our problem i mean most of the people in this site are teens and adults last time i checked those are the years we take more stress i think this is where some people release that stress in anger without getting in trouble in real life by being hostile and making other people mad.

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Oh I agree with you completely, but you're preaching to the choir in this forum. We all agree, but what I think we need to focus on is what can be done about it? Honestly, I think you are taking a step in the right direction though. You're pictorial story "The Journey of Tahu" emphasizes the beauty and quality of the build in the Gen 2 toa. I think there needs to be more media such as that to promote a better general outlook on Gen 2.

 

Thank you for the kind words. I agree - through art, fan-fics, fan videos, etc. we are showing LEGO that we care about G2. And (this is the same for a lot of fanbases) I honestly don't think the general consensus of G2 is "we all hate it". People who are satisfied tend to speak less than those who are infuriated. The vocal minority is negative. The rest of us are either content or pleased enough to not make a fuss over it. So I think these discussions, along with the artwork, mocing scene among others are indicators of our feelings towards G2. We shoudn't focus on changing the minds of others who think otherwise, but if someone new to the franchise was to express interest in G2, I think most of us would say "go for it". And I mean, at the end of the day, sales talk the biggest. If we keep supporting LEGO by buying the sets, we are already doing our part. The rest of it just goes above and beyond. :)

 

-NotS

 

 

In other words, we should be more vocal about the good stuff. :)

 

Precisely

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Oh I agree with you completely, but you're preaching to the choir in this forum. We all agree, but what I think we need to focus on is what can be done about it? Honestly, I think you are taking a step in the right direction though. You're pictorial story "The Journey of Tahu" emphasizes the beauty and quality of the build in the Gen 2 toa. I think there needs to be more media such as that to promote a better general outlook on Gen 2.

 

Thank you for the kind words. I agree - through art, fan-fics, fan videos, etc. we are showing LEGO that we care about G2. And (this is the same for a lot of fanbases) I honestly don't think the general consensus of G2 is "we all hate it". People who are satisfied tend to speak less than those who are infuriated. The vocal minority is negative. The rest of us are either content or pleased enough to not make a fuss over it. So I think these discussions, along with the artwork, mocing scene among others are indicators of our feelings towards G2. We shoudn't focus on changing the minds of others who think otherwise, but if someone new to the franchise was to express interest in G2, I think most of us would say "go for it". And I mean, at the end of the day, sales talk the biggest. If we keep supporting LEGO by buying the sets, we are already doing our part. The rest of it just goes above and beyond. :)

 

-NotS

In other words, we should be more vocal about the good stuff. :)

Finally someone said it.
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Hey I got a Flickr because I like making LEGO stuff.

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Oh I agree with you completely, but you're preaching to the choir in this forum. We all agree, but what I think we need to focus on is what can be done about it? Honestly, I think you are taking a step in the right direction though. You're pictorial story "The Journey of Tahu" emphasizes the beauty and quality of the build in the Gen 2 toa. I think there needs to be more media such as that to promote a better general outlook on Gen 2.

 

 

Thank you for the kind words. I agree - through art, fan-fics, fan videos, etc. we are showing LEGO that we care about G2. And (this is the same for a lot of fanbases) I honestly don't think the general consensus of G2 is "we all hate it". People who are satisfied tend to speak less than those who are infuriated. The vocal minority is negative. The rest of us are either content or pleased enough to not make a fuss over it. So I think these discussions, along with the artwork, mocing scene among others are indicators of our feelings towards G2. We shoudn't focus on changing the minds of others who think otherwise, but if someone new to the franchise was to express interest in G2, I think most of us would say "go for it". And I mean, at the end of the day, sales talk the biggest. If we keep supporting LEGO by buying the sets, we are already doing our part. The rest of it just goes above and beyond. :)

 

-NotS

 

 

There is a phenomena that really ties into this, and that's the notion of like passive consumerism vs. active complaint. The whole goal of entertainment is to make money through people consuming your content. For the large majority of people, that is exclusively what they do. The people who comment on your work are people that are snapped out of that phase, either by extremely positive or extremely negative means. Some people will respond positively to something they really enjoyed, others will respond positively because of a fostered sense of community and discussion. It's mostly because a lot of people will enjoy things and just not have anything to say. The like button was design as a counterpoint to this - people could show approval without searching for something to actually say about the product, but even that small amount of interaction counts as breaking out from that pure phase of just watching something.

 

The reason why you will see a lot of negative discussion is because when you have a problem with something, it's much easier to find something to say about it. Because your complaints are at the forefront of your mind, it's much easier to put your disapproval down in writing than it is otherwise.

 

So much of my discussions about G2 and Bionicle focus around what it's not doing. I try to give active credit to what's being done right, but the honest truth is that 1. It's sometimes much harder 2. It does not foster good discussion, especially in a format when you have to talk about things week after week. I will be talking about Batman v Superman's faults long after I finish raving about how good Civil War was, because going back and forth about faults creates multiple discussions about alternate solutions, what could have worked, what couldn't have worked, and that's all mostly based on individual conjecture and opinion. You don't get that with things that are good already - there's no point to discussing other solutions when the obvious one is staring right back at you.

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I think there is going to always be a ton of negativity whenever a reboot, re-creation, or addition of a favored franchise happens. Take Transformers, for instance. They've been dealing with this kind of thing for ages. Or Pokemon. There is going to be division in this kind of thing because some people don't like change.

 

I, for one, am a huge G2 fan and a fan of G1, but I also face scrutiny from other fans. Some people are G2 fans but prefer G1 better. Some are just simply G1 fans.

 

In the end, I feel it's natural negativity is going to rise. Some people just prefer the old BIONICLE more than the old. I don't blame them, either.

Hey, I'm Fatorak. I made this account back in November for the Golden Mask contest, but I decided I might as well use it for something more useful. So yeah, I'm gonna be more active on here, or at least TRY to be!

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A lot of the negativity could be attributed to the general anxiety over the rumors of Bionicle ending. And this is the internet- if you build it, haters will come.

 

"Be the change you want to see in the world Bionicle fansite." Erroneously attributed to Gandhi, but still a very true quote. And very applicable here. :) Instead of leaving the discussion like rats fleeing a sinking ship, we can actively contribute positively to save a wonderful fan community.

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If you wait until the last minute, then it only takes one minute. 

 

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I think it's become quite obvious that this iteration of Bionicle is a step backwards from the first.

It's disappointing and saddening to watch as Lego continues to put less and less effort into the theme.

The story made the theme special, and unfortunately it just isn't there.

 

Lego should have simply let Bionicle die, or at the very least, continue the theme using the G1 story and characters.

Edited by You just lost the game
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The problem i guess is that how time goes Bionicle fans have been split like the gaming community some liking G2 and defending it with there lives and some liking G1 as they criticize G2 all the time this goes more to the realm of opinion but i think its true.

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I think it's become quite obvious that this iteration of Bionicle is a step backwards from the first.

It's disappointing and saddening to watch as Lego continues put less and less effort into the theme.

The story made the theme special, and unfortunately it just isn't there.

 

Lego should have simply let Bionicle die, or at the very least, continue the theme using the G1 story and characters.

I dunno. They could have also put a huge amount of work and love into a reboot for modern kids, with better sets than the theme had ever had before and a story that corrects many of the numerous flaws of G1. But then again, that'd probably only result in ignorant and hard-to-please older fans decrying the whole theme as a "lack of effort". So yeah. Maybe they SHOULD have just let it die.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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The problem i guess is that how time goes Bionicle fans have been split like the gaming community some liking G2 and defending it with there lives and some liking G1 as they criticize G2 all the time this goes more to the realm of opinion but i think its true.

 

Bionicle fans have been really divided since long before G2, though. There have been a whole lot of disagreements over the years. There are some people who feel like everything went down the toilet as soon as the story left Mata Nui in 2004 and became more "sci-fi". There are others who feel like the attempts to make the story darker and edgier in 2006 and 2007 were fairly cringeworthy. There are still others who loved the story all the way through 2008 but then felt like the Bara Magna setting and characters just didn't measure up to the Matoran Universe and its inhabitants. And of course, there are some who felt like the story was strong all the way until the end and that everything would have been peachy keen if it had just kept going uninterrupted.

 

I honestly don't know if the disagreements we see from fans today are any worse than the disagreements this community has had for years. But the longer Bionicle goes on, the more disagreements are inevitably going to arise.

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I honestly don't know if the disagreements we see from fans today are any worse than the disagreements this community has had for years. 

I'm gonna have to say no on this one.  I don't have any points of reference from the pre-2008 internet community, but until people start trying to justify their dislike of G2 by comparing it to the civil rights movement or the Apollo program then it can't top the Mistika divide.

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Either way any fanbase is going to have division among them. I don't feel BIONICLE is immune to this either.

 

It's a sad fact when some people bring negativity to a fanbase, and it spreads all over. The fact is, people have different opinions and so the fanbase may start beginning to disagree. Unfortunately, G2 has been a major point of contention for all of this.

 

I feel like this result was entirely unavoidable, though, even if G2 was never a thing. As stated above, some people don't like certain years. I know for a fact my brother didn't like 2008 because it began to become too sci-fi for him, and that he much preferred when BIONICLE was mystical and we didn't know the answers.

 

My point is, we're going to have problems as part of a fanbase. It's just unavoidable, especially when major, controversial decisions arrive.

Hey, I'm Fatorak. I made this account back in November for the Golden Mask contest, but I decided I might as well use it for something more useful. So yeah, I'm gonna be more active on here, or at least TRY to be!

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The weird thing I've noticed is that Tumblr of all places is more positive about G2 than BZPower ever was.

 

Tumblr.

 

To be honest, it feels like part of the problem is how long this site's been around, how many people have left, and how (relatively) few new people we're getting. It feels like a dwindling community of crotchety old men.

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"Whether that is right or not...I also...as a Rider...have a wish that I want to fulfill."

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The weird thing I've noticed is that Tumblr of all places is more positive about G2 than BZPower ever was.

 

Tumblr.

 

To be honest, it feels like part of the problem is how long this site's been around, how many people have left, and how (relatively) few new people we're getting. It feels like a dwindling community of crotchety old men.

I have very bad experiences with that website. On one occasion, people were fired up when someone said Tamaru was a dude. People were so up in arms saying it was a girl(Transgender whatever you want to call it) and screaming and crying "bigotry". It's toxic.

 

Simply put, I agree with y'all. Age is getting to us. Lots of guys hate G2 and constantly look to the past. G2 is a reboot, not recreation. If we really want Bionicle, let's try to keep an open mind and be excited! C'mon guys, we got what we wanted from LEGO. If we calmly discuss what we want, it will help the odds.

Edited by Makaru
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I'm currently in the process of rewriting G2. PM me if interested.

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I think it's become quite obvious that this iteration of Bionicle is a step backwards from the first.

It's disappointing and saddening to watch as Lego continues put less and less effort into the theme.

The story made the theme special, and unfortunately it just isn't there.

 

Lego should have simply let Bionicle die, or at the very least, continue the theme using the G1 story and characters.

I dunno. They could have also put a huge amount of work and love into a reboot for modern kids, with better sets than the theme had ever had before and a story that corrects many of the numerous flaws of G1. But then again, that'd probably only result in ignorant and hard-to-please older fans decrying the whole theme as a "lack of effort". So yeah. Maybe they SHOULD have just let it die.

 

Struck a cord, did I?

 

I'll admit the sets are alright, but the Toa are no more detailed than the Inika.

We've had great sets, (Umarak and the Beasts) and then we've had lackluster sets (Pretty much all the Toa).

 

I'm not entirely sure what story elements you're referring to when you say, "a story that corrects many of the numerous flaws of G1".

What I see in G2 is your standard, "Hero's who suck at being hero's learn to be hero's" storyline.

A rather barebones one at that.

 

Sure, the original Mata-Nui saga took place in a very small area, but Lego managed to make the world seem massive and alive.

The air of adventure and mystery strongly surrounded the theme.

It was quite something to experience, and I was totally engrossed.

 

Unfortunately, Lego has not been able to recapture that magic.

Nor many of its fans.

Edited by You just lost the game

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until people start trying to justify their dislike of G2 by comparing it to the civil rights movement or the Apollo program then it can't top the Mistika divide.

What was the "Mistika divide"? It sounds tantalizingly silly.

This does sound curious!

52641688958_d61c0bc049_w(1).jpg.c0871df0de376218d7ca2bc4f409e17d.jpg

All aboard the hype train!

 

 

 

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I think it's become quite obvious that this iteration of Bionicle is a step backwards from the first.

It's disappointing and saddening to watch as Lego continues put less and less effort into the theme.

The story made the theme special, and unfortunately it just isn't there.

 

Lego should have simply let Bionicle die, or at the very least, continue the theme using the G1 story and characters.

I dunno. They could have also put a huge amount of work and love into a reboot for modern kids, with better sets than the theme had ever had before and a story that corrects many of the numerous flaws of G1. But then again, that'd probably only result in ignorant and hard-to-please older fans decrying the whole theme as a "lack of effort". So yeah. Maybe they SHOULD have just let it die.

 

Struck a cord, did I?

 

I'll admit the sets are alright, but the Toa are no more detailed than the Inika.

We've had great sets, (Umarak and the Beasts) and then we've had lackluster sets (Pretty much all the Toa).

 

I'm not entirely sure what story elements you're referring to when you say, "a story that corrects many of the numerous flaws of G1".

What I see in G2 is your standard, "Hero's who suck at being hero's learn to be hero's" storyline.

A rather barebones one at that.

 

Sure, the original Mata-Nui saga took place in a very small area, but Lego managed to make the world seem massive and alive.

The air of adventure and mystery strongly surrounded the theme.

It was quite something to experience, and I was totally engrossed.

 

Unfortunately, Lego has not been able to recapture that magic.

Nor many of its fans.

 

"No more detailed than the Inika"? You're joking, right? There's a huge difference between six identically-constructed heroes and the Toa we've gotten, who all have more complex builds and unique proportions, not to mention distinct armor styles, weapon builds, and gear functions. Literally the only place the Inika come out ahead is the level of textural detail, which is hardly something to write home about.

 

What I mean by the flaws of G1 are the utter inaccessibility of so much of the story, the tendency toward grimdark storytelling in the latter years, the blandness of the original Toa's archetypal personalities, the excessively structured rules of the universe running counter to the spirit of creative play the toys were meant to embody; the list goes on and on. I don't feel like dissecting all the issues with G1 in this post, because people have been doing that since it ended over five years ago. But G1 wasn't perfect by any stretch, and a lot of the changes made to G2 are based on correcting the original theme's mistakes.

 

It's true that we've definitely had LESS story than G1, this time around. There's nothing halfway as immersive as the Mata Nui Online Game (but then again, G1 never had anything that approached that after 2001 either). The books and graphic novels come out at a trickle compared to the books and comics from 2004–2006 (though last year's animations provided a fairly steady stream of content).

 

But what we have gotten has generally ranged from decent to excellent. And there certainly is no "lack of effort" involved. I've met many of the people behind Bionicle's revival and the amount of passion and dedication they have for the theme is tangible. To suggest otherwise is to dismiss the hard work of a large group of people based solely on nostalgia for a classic era that doesn't hold up quite so well under scrutiny.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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Thank you, Lyichir.

 

I think it's obvious that G2 is the point of division among fans, clearly seen from above. Personally I love it and agree with Lyichir's assessment, but others will not. We can already see this now. It's a huge point of debate, something that's going to be keeping the BIONICLE community struggling for ages.

 

I think what BIONICLE really needs to boost is fans is to NOT boost it's roots and retread G1, but to keep going with G2 but try to make things more aware. Perhaps do more advertisement. I've barely seen BIONICLE advertisement and it would help if they did it more on things like YouTube or even TV, because yes, people still watch TV.

Hey, I'm Fatorak. I made this account back in November for the Golden Mask contest, but I decided I might as well use it for something more useful. So yeah, I'm gonna be more active on here, or at least TRY to be!

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until people start trying to justify their dislike of G2 by comparing it to the civil rights movement or the Apollo program then it can't top the Mistika divide.

What was the "Mistika divide"? It sounds tantalizingly silly.

This does sound curious!

???

 

I sort of figured, given the context, that it would be clear that I'm talking about the massive disagreements and arguments that spawned from the Phantoka and Mistika being what they were.  I mean it was rather silly in its own way, but not much more so than any "ruined FOREVER" moment.

 

It was quite something to experience, and I was totally engrossed.

 

Unfortunately, Lego has not been able to recapture that magic.

It's not that LEGO isn't capturing the magic, it's that you're not seeing the magic.  Because you're not ten years old anymore.

 

I will always go back to 2002 (age 9) as the height of the "magic" for me, because I had little concept of where BIONICLE was going, so I literally did not know the Bohrok existed until I saw them on shelves.  I can keenly remember the wonder and curiosity, not so much because of the story immersion, but because there were still new and exciting things to be discovered.  Nowadays with ToyFair and BZP and the internet in general at my disposal I'll likely never get that sort of feeling again.

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I sort of figured, given the context, that it would be clear that I'm talking about the massive disagreements and arguments that spawned from the Phantoka and Mistika being what they were.  I mean it was rather silly in its own way, but not much more so than any "ruined FOREVER" moment.

 

Dude, I joined in 2010. Were people here that disgruntled by the Phantoka/Mistika concept?

 

 

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I sort of figured, given the context, that it would be clear that I'm talking about the massive disagreements and arguments that spawned from the Phantoka and Mistika being what they were.  I mean it was rather silly in its own way, but not much more so than any "ruined FOREVER" moment.

 

Dude, I joined in 2010. Were people here that disgruntled by the Phantoka/Mistika concept?

 

Yes. A lot of people were really incensed that the Toa Nuva's colors had changed so radically, that their masks had only extremely subtle similarities to their old ones, that Tahu didn't have a sword, that their builds were basically just Inika/Mahri/Piraka builds, that a lot of their equipment (airplane wings, jetpacks, helicopter rotors, etc) felt more sci-fi than fantasy, and so forth. Lots of people attempted (some more successfully than others) to draw or build how they felt the 2008 Toa should have been.

 

Of course, these kinds of changes were nothing new to Bionicle — after all, the Toa Metru looked hardly anything like the Turaga they were based on, the Toa Inika looked hardly anything like the Matoran they were based on, etc. I wasn't involved in the online community early enough to see if people got quite so upset about the Toa Metru designs, but there was certainly quite an uproar when the Toa Inika were revealed. It says a lot that the Bionicle Stars, which were themselves hated for various reasons, were some of the most faithful redesigns of existing characters and species that G1 Bionicle ever saw!

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First of all, the Inika are not more detailed than the 2016 Uniters. The Inika-construction was nearly the same all around in 2006. But in 2016, Tahu's build is very different from Pohatu. Besides color, there is armor style, colors, weapons, accents, and more(As Lychir said).

Second of all, people really didn't like the Metru? I get the masks not looking quite right, but seriously? I think the Toa Metru are great even today.


I'm currently in the process of rewriting G2. PM me if interested.

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First of all, the Inika are not more detailed than the 2016 Uniters. The Inika-construction was nearly the same all around in 2006. But in 2016, Tahu's build is very different from Pohatu. Besides color, there is armor style, colors, weapons, accents, and more(As Lychir said).

 

Second of all, people really didn't like the Metru? I get the masks not looking quite right, but seriously? I think the Toa Metru are great even today.

 

I never said people didn't like the Metru. I wasn't a part of the online community back then so I really wouldn't know WHAT people thought of them. I was just observing that like the Inika or Phantoka/Mistika, you had to stretch your brain a bit to pin down any similarities with the established Turaga versions of the characters.

 

Metru were alright, though I'm surprised at the amount of praise they get since they basically started the whole absurdly-wide-shoulders-for-everyone thing that a lot of people complained about on Inika builds.

Edited by Aanchir
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Honestly, I don't understand why people wouldn't like the sets we've gotten so far.  They seem better-crafted and more inventive than the majority of the canister sets we got in G1, and although some of them came out a bit iffy for it, there's only one (Skull Scorpio) that I would consider to actually look bad.  At the very least, the gearboxes and custom torsos are a welcome change from just repeating the Inika and Piraka torsos over and over again.  (The summer beasts, on the other hand, look pretty terrible to me, but that's neither here nor there.)

Edited by Endless Sea (Alaki Nuva)
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It is not for us to decide the fate of angels.

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Honestly, I don't understand why people wouldn't like the sets we've gotten so far.  They seem better-crafted and more inventive than the majority of the canister sets we got in G1, and although some of them came out a bit iffy for it, there's only one (Skull Scorpio) that I would consider to actually look bad.  At the very least, the gearboxes and custom torsos are a welcome change from just repeating the Inika and Piraka torsos over and over again.  (The summer beasts, on the other hand, look pretty terrible to me, but that's neither here nor there.)

Storm Beast is the one Beast I actually like


I'm currently in the process of rewriting G2. PM me if interested.

Feel free to follow the blog! (https://spiritofokoto.tumblr.com/)

 

 

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Can we get someone who was around during the reveal of the Toa Metru to express their opinions or give an idea of what the fans first thought of the new toa team?

I had mixed feelings over the Toa Metru sets.

I liked it that we got working joints and a new head shape with changeable eye stocks.

But... the arms looked a little short for my taste and the body was a ture example of clone sets.

The Toa Mata and Nui even though I consider them clone sets, had more variations in there designs than the Toa Metru.

Edited by ToaTimeLord

Hey I got a Flickr because I like making LEGO stuff.

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"BIONICLE is great, stop crying about toys and move on people. The past happened, get over it."

 

 

Thats whats wrong with the fans, we can't seem to get over ourselves and other trivial things. To all the salty fans out there, just take a cool shower, put some Aloe gel on, and stop complaining before LEGO makes salt a canon element.

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"BIONICLE is great, stop crying about toys and move on people. The past happened, get over it."

 

 

Thats whats wrong with the fans, we can't seem to get over ourselves and other trivial things. To all the salty fans out there, just take a cool shower, put some Aloe gel on, and stop complaining before LEGO makes salt a canon element.

 

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Google Bionicle Toa of Salt and this pops up first.

Geewunner, Toa of Salt confirmed for 2017

 

 

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Hey I got a Flickr because I like making LEGO stuff.

https://www.flickr.com/people/toatimelord/
 

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So much of my discussions about G2 and Bionicle focus around what it's not doing. I try to give active credit to what's being done right, but the honest truth is that 1. It's sometimes much harder 2. It does not foster good discussion, especially in a format when you have to talk about things week after week. I will be talking about Batman v Superman's faults long after I finish raving about how good Civil War was, because going back and forth about faults creates multiple discussions about alternate solutions, what could have worked, what couldn't have worked, and that's all mostly based on individual conjecture and opinion. You don't get that with things that are good already - there's no point to discussing other solutions when the obvious one is staring right back at you.

 

That makes a ton of sense. To foster discussion, you have to find something worth talking about first, and the people who are satisfied will have little to contribute. So in a sense, the amount of backlash on the internet about G2 is a good thing, because it is keeping it relevant in discussion circles.

 

-NotS

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But is it too little, too late? Has the damage already been done?

Probably. People have turned and lost their way.

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