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Glatorian/Agori lifespan and childhoods?


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We know that Agori and Glatorian are ridiculously long-lived. Some of the most ancient beings in the Matoran Universe- Artakha, Tren Krom, Helryx, etc, would be about the equivalent of a twenty year old in Spherus Magnan terms, if that. Gresh is over 100 000 years old and is barely acknowledged as an adult.

 

Gresh is the equivalent of a human in his early twenties. He was a child during the Core War. I'd estimate him to be maybe between 100 000 and 150 000 based on that, but it's a shot in the dark given that we don't know the actual length of their lifespans.

 

So, it's difficult to nut out exactly how long they live, but I've got an interesting question.

 

Do Sphereus Magnans' aging processes scale with humans at all?

 

As in, if an Agori can live to, say, 500 000-600 000 years, does that mean that they reach adulthood at around 100 000 years? Do Agori parents spend 10 000 years potty training their kids? I can see why many would choose not to have children if this was the case. Population growth would be unbelievably slow, unless parents chose to have several kids in quick succession- and that's assuming the gestation period isn't also stretched out...

 

It's a bit ridiculous, isn't it?

 

Well, the alternative is just as ridiculous.

 

 Here we have a comparatively short childhood (could be anything between 20 and 10 000 years to be considered "short") followed by a looooong adulthood. Picture this- you see two young Agori that look to be roughly the same age hanging out together. You think you can see a family resemblance, so you ask if they're sisters. Nope, turns out one is the great-great-great-grandmother of the other. You could have potentially hundreds of generations of the same family alive at the same time. You could start dating someone old enough to be your great-great-great-great grandparent, and nobody would bat an eyelid. In prosperous times, population growth would be enormous as long as child mortality was low. You can just imagine what family reunions must be like.

 

Weirdly enough, there's support for that second theory given that the regression of the Vorox happened over many generations. If you use the first hypothesis (and assume that Vorox grow and age at the same rate as other Glatorians), the time since the Core War would only allow for one, or at most, two generations to pass. So, childhoods must be comparatively short in order for them to reach breeding age several times over in that time. Though, Vorox may operate by slightly different rules than other Spherus Magnans...

 

What do you think? Is there a reasonable solution to all this?

 

Apart from "Ignore all of Greg's attempts to use numbers", I mean?  :P

 

(jk, Greg, we still love ya.)

 

Thoughts?

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Well that's an interesting thought and I might add to that in saying that why then are they not an unbelievably advanced civilization? If life spans are so long, that means that you would have Agori with over 400,000 years of knowledge and research. In less than 6,000 years man has gone from Stone Age to space flight and satellites. In reality I think we would see a society so advanced that they would be colonizing the other moons and planets in the system. However, assuming that's not the case, then in their culture mating would also have to be an extremely rare occurrence to keep such low populations such as what we saw in Legend Reborn.

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Gresh is one of those guys who matures psychologically fast. I'm going to give The Legend Reborn's portrayal of him the boot here because it interferes with the "official" characterisation of Gresh.

Let's take a look at him and try to figure things out:

Early on in Raid on Vulcanus (takes place a little before TLR), both Metus and Gelu refer to Gresh as "kid". However, neither do this to his face. Gresh is a laconic, compassionate type of guy, who goes out of his way to help Agori merchants in a fix out in the desert for free but never gets bogged down in sentimentality or excessive emotion.

He takes his job seriously, rarely jokes, is quite insightful, and is surprisingly idealistic for a Bara Magnan. He breaks with standard form - Straak and Tarix have two sets of moves; one for practise, a second for the arena. Gresh works out and practices in private, keeping his moves - unless he's sparring. He's a young blood who breaks with convention sufficiently enough to make people go:

​"Tell me something, Gresh -- are you sure you're from this planet?"

 

Upon first meeting him in Raid on Vulcanus, Gelu sums him up superficially and scratches the surface of Gresh's psychology:

...Gresh didn't say much during the first part of the journey. Normally, Gelu would have written this off as nerves. Young Glatorian did one of two things around veterans: they asked questions non-stop or shut up completely, afraid to sound stupid if they opened their mouths.

But Gresh wasn't a typical newcomer to the game. He had won all but one of his matches for Tesara, and the one he had lost was to a Skrall warrior. There was no shame in that. Back when Roxtus had sent fighters to the arena, no one had ever beaten a Skrall.

 Gelu liked the kid. Too many young fighters thought being a Glatorian was all about profit or personal glory. But the best of the breed knew it was a lot more than that.  

 Gresh is a respected young Glatorian in arena circles, capable of holding his weight with the greats. He gives 100% effort

 

 There aren't so many Glatorian survivors out there - Raid mentions a shortage of fighters, and Tesara and presumably Iconox, ('cause of their exisidian) have the monopoly on their (offscreen) battlers.

 Anyway, enough of the psychologising and society-analysing - a human life is a blink of the eye to those Spherus Magna blokes.

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I can understand why people generally wouldn't want kids on Bara Magna- they probably struggled to find enough to eat for themselves, and having a child would be a drain on their limited resources. Many Agori had dangerous jobs, and couldn't guarantee they would always be around for their children...

 

But after Spherus Magna reformed? Plenty of food and water, and a much safer environment?

 

Babies! Babies everywhere!

 

(Side note: Matoran and Toa's reactions to encountering babies for the first time would be hilarious)

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This really is an interesting topic.

 

At first I thought "What if their mental processes are slowed down to compensate for their longevity, like a tortoise?" But then I remembered: we have characters that treat each day as being just as long as an Earth day. If their brains were slower than ours, days would appear to move much faster to them. So I guess we can debunk that theory.

 

What if they use a base-6 numbering system? Then, 100,000 years in their numbers would be only 7,777 in ours. Still very long, but more manageable. I say base-6 specifically, because 6 is an arc number in Bionicle, and there are multiple theories out there that provide a strong case as to why this may be their number base.

 

Perhaps Glatorian reach mental maturity comparatively early on (like you say, anywhere between 20 and 10,000 years) but they don't reach... ahem... breeding maturity until much later, like at 100,000 years? Maybe that's why the older Glatorian regard Gresh as a kid, not because he exhibits traits that we humans associate with young adulthood.

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It could be that their reproductive systems take a long time to mature, or there is a societal stigma against that, as it takes away resources from everyone else. 

 

It's also possible that they simply have no motivation to do so. Humans have chemicals that provide an incentive for reproductive behavior - simply a lack of those chemicals in Agori/Glatorian would make an event sufficiently rare. 

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I've often wondered about that myself. I just decided to ignore Greg's statement that their measurement of a year is just as long as ours, Instead, I assume one of our years is equal to two or three of theirs. Still pretty long, but drastically decreases the actual time frame. :)

 

(Side note: Matoran and Toa's reactions to encountering babies for the first time would be hilarious)

Tahu: (trying to burp a baby agori) Um, how do I turn it off?

*baby keeps screaming*

Tahu: Seriously, guys, this isn't amusing. How do I make it stop? It doesn't rely on Kanohi to function, so I can't put it to sleep that way. HELP ME!!!

 

Can someone please write a comedy about that? Toa Nuva's Babysitting Service. :P

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I've often wondered about that myself. I just decided to ignore Greg's statement that their measurement of a year is just as long as ours, Instead, I assume one of our years is equal to two or three of theirs. Still pretty long, but drastically decreases the actual time frame. :)

 

 

(Side note: Matoran and Toa's reactions to encountering babies for the first time would be hilarious)

Tahu: (trying to burp a baby agori) Um, how do I turn it off?

*baby keeps screaming*

Tahu: Seriously, guys, this isn't amusing. How do I make it stop? It doesn't rely on Kanohi to function, so I can't put it to sleep that way. HELP ME!!!

 

Can someonw please write a comedy about that? Toa Nuva's Babysitting Service. :P

Agreed. It's unlikely that a planet in another universe would also coincidentally be at the exact same speed as ours, but I can imagine from a story writer's perspective it would be easier to just go with it.

 

My goodness! Imagine Tahu trying to change diapers or trying to get the baby to go to sleep. I wonder what song he would sing?

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I like the idea of them being utterly flummoxed by the way people act around babies. And if you subscribe to the theory that MU brains are more or less synthetic models of Agori/Glatorian brains, they probably have a bunch of instincts accidentally programmed in that they've just never used before. So, somebody shows a Toa a baby and they just start instantly start going "Awwww... oosa good bubbadub? Yousa good bubbadub! Yes!" before getting ahold of themselves and going "What is that thing and what did it just do to me?"

 

(Any Matoran bystanders just start to assume babies work somewhat similarly to a mask of Incomprehension)

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In my own headcanon, these extended lifespans explain why just about every character in the series has experienced amnesia at some point in the series (Takua's had his mind wiped at least 3 times, if not more).  Having tens of thousands of years of memories in your mind just makes it so much easier for your brain to erase them at the first sign of trouble.

 

"City's sinking into the water?  Forget that."

 

"A giant war that caused the planet to explode?  Forget that."

 

"Fly through the air and crash land on a beach?  Literally forget everything, including my name."

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In my own headcanon, these extended lifespans explain why just about every character in the series has experienced amnesia at some point in the series (Takua's had his mind wiped at least 3 times, if not more).  Having tens of thousands of years of memories in your mind just makes it so much easier for your brain to erase them at the first sign of trouble.

 

"City's sinking into the water?  Forget that."

 

"A giant war that caused the planet to explode?  Forget that."

 

"Fly through the air and crash land on a beach?  Literally forget everything, including my name."

 I actually did have a topic on that a while ago with regard to Matoran, at least (dead thread, so don't post). Basically, they forget anything that they don't actively think about on a regular basis, and extreme trauma or drastic change of environment can cause a reset of sorts. Come to think of it, there are probably a whole bunch of little amnesiacs running around after the GSR was destroyed...

 

Most of the Glatorian seem to remember the Core War and the Shattering, but Metus in TLR apparently didn't. Maybe Glatorian can live longer than Agori (though most don't live that long due to a dangerous lifestyle), so very few of today's Agori were actually around during the Shattering.

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In my own headcanon, these extended lifespans explain why just about every character in the series has experienced amnesia at some point in the series (Takua's had his mind wiped at least 3 times, if not more).  Having tens of thousands of years of memories in your mind just makes it so much easier for your brain to erase them at the first sign of trouble.

 

"City's sinking into the water?  Forget that."

 

"A giant war that caused the planet to explode?  Forget that."

 

"Fly through the air and crash land on a beach?  Literally forget everything, including my name."

 I actually did have a topic on that a while ago with regard to Matoran, at least (dead thread, so don't post). Basically, they forget anything that they don't actively think about on a regular basis, and extreme trauma or drastic change of environment can cause a reset of sorts. Come to think of it, there are probably a whole bunch of little amnesiacs running around after the GSR was destroyed...

 

Most of the Glatorian seem to remember the Core War and the Shattering, but Metus in TLR apparently didn't. Maybe Glatorian can live longer than Agori (though most don't live that long due to a dangerous lifestyle), so very few of today's Agori were actually around during the Shattering.

 

Metus was alive during the Core War, though.  He even worked for the army!

 

I think Glatorian and Agori both have the impossibly long lifespans as well as a slight case of "too many authors in the kitchen".

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Okay, after reading through all this, I just want to make a comic strip whereby the Toa are trying to take care of an Agori or Glatorian Baby, then I jump in, make a portal to another realm so the kid can be taken care of by another entity from another time and place, slam the door on them, and be all like "A job well done, now they're gonna call in about... Two hours, by then their job should be done for the day." After that, we take the kid back and me and the entity show how to PROPERLY take care of the little pain. After that the entity leaves and we all take turns taking care of the kid.

 

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone else feel as if Glatorian lifespans should really be retooled? At least 100,000 years old for a young Glatorian? Greg go home, you're drunk. Seriously, does anyone else remember the thing of oxygen directly to the brain thing, with no blood or another substance for biological transport in-body? Something tells me that Greg and the team really didn't do their research into Biology, me being someone who greatly understands it I am frankly appaulled, yet I can't help but laugh. Glatorian and Agori living more than 100,000 years? GREG PLEASE! Honestly it would make more sense if they lived say a MAX of 200 years, isn't that long enough?! It makes more sence, that would allow for ACTUAL FAMILY LINES, instead of it just being, "Hey, we were made by the great beings.... And we live forever practically. Can we reproduce? I dunno! Do we lay eggs or something? Ahaha, lets duel and forget about it!" Or at least, thats how I see it, not much thought is or was really put into it at all, so it is then left up to us, the fans, to theorize. Yet, most of it is unfortunately baseless headcanons, and that sucks because we simply don't know about their biology, only that they live so long, yet even then, we don't even know as to why.

 

Again, we can only speculate without evidence. It is possible to say that Glatorian and Agori hibernate to up their lifespans by some sort of cell cryonics or what have you, but again, anything is possible. The only way I see solving this conundrum is by looking at it by a Biological point of view, that being that we use the knowledge we know to try and rationalize it. Honestly though, in the end I don't think we will ever know the answer truely, because again, we simply don't know. Unless if they come forward and say how it is, we will always be left scratching our heads.

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Everyone go read Empire of the Skrall now. (They've got it whole on biosector01).

 

Interestingly, the Skrall are the most numerous of the villages warrior-wise, and yet their species is comprised of males who're fanatical misogynists and females who're fanatical misandrists. From this, we can presume Skrall babies are infrequent phenomena, and that begs the question: Are most of the Skrall race over 100,000 years old?

If so, it makes sense why they're so lethal in battle. It could also explain the extremely militaristic nature of their culture--it could function as a wall against the trauma they've suffered down the millennia. Devoting their energies to battle and the art of war, perfecting the art of wreaking havoc to a razor-sharp point - all to keep the nightmares away.

​And what about the Bone Hunters? Raid on Vulcanus mentions a number of younger hunters who presumably didn't witness The Shattering, so it's likely that they breed more often than Glatorian, Agori and Skrall. Living so deep in the deserts that none dare follow you probably gives them a place to raise their children in safety.

 

Sand Tribe, despite their scattered nature, have vast numbers, and their bestial state presumably leaves them with far less complex responsibilities--leaving them with more time for breeding.

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Okay, after reading through all this, I just want to make a comic strip whereby the Toa are trying to take care of an Agori or Glatorian Baby, then I jump in, make a portal to another realm so the kid can be taken care of by another entity from another time and place, slam the door on them, and be all like "A job well done, now they're gonna call in about... Two hours, by then their job should be done for the day." After that, we take the kid back and me and the entity show how to PROPERLY take care of the little pain. After that the entity leaves and we all take turns taking care of the kid.

 

Anyway, back on topic, does anyone else feel as if Glatorian lifespans should really be retooled? At least 100,000 years old for a young Glatorian? Greg go home, you're drunk. Seriously, does anyone else remember the thing of oxygen directly to the brain thing, with no blood or another substance for biological transport in-body? Something tells me that Greg and the team really didn't do their research into Biology, me being someone who greatly understands it I am frankly appaulled, yet I can't help but laugh. Glatorian and Agori living more than 100,000 years? GREG PLEASE! Honestly it would make more sense if they lived say a MAX of 200 years, isn't that long enough?! It makes more sence, that would allow for ACTUAL FAMILY LINES, instead of it just being, "Hey, we were made by the great beings.... And we live forever practically. Can we reproduce? I dunno! Do we lay eggs or something? Ahaha, lets duel and forget about it!" Or at least, thats how I see it, not much thought is or was really put into it at all, so it is then left up to us, the fans, to theorize. Yet, most of it is unfortunately baseless headcanons, and that sucks because we simply don't know about their biology, only that they live so long, yet even then, we don't even know as to why.

 

Again, we can only speculate without evidence. It is possible to say that Glatorian and Agori hibernate to up their lifespans by some sort of cell cryonics or what have you, but again, anything is possible. The only way I see solving this conundrum is by looking at it by a Biological point of view, that being that we use the knowledge we know to try and rationalize it. Honestly though, in the end I don't think we will ever know the answer truely, because again, we simply don't know. Unless if they come forward and say how it is, we will always be left scratching our heads.

 

I'm confused as to what you mean when you're referring to the "oxygen directly to the brain" being a problem in the lifespan of the Agori. Actually hyperoxia (above normal O2 supply to brain) is a method used to aid patients with TBI (traumatic brain injury). However, in 2001 a study showed that hyperoxia to the brain does not always influence the brain oxygen delivery as it is separate from the oxygen delivery via CBF (cerebral spinal fluid)1.

 

However, the delivery of pure O2 with 100% excess (as seen in a 2008 study)2 increased levels of brain tissue oxygen tension (or PbrO2) therefor reducing neural apoptotic cell death (cellular suicide due to malfunction, mutation, or damage). We do know that all Agori are fully organic and that some, not all, choose to have cybernetic implants. What that might be and whether it contributes to their long lifespan is unclear. We also know that Bionicles do not have blood, but have organs that pump “energy” throughout the body (hence the heartlights). Since Agori are fully organic by birth, then the “energy” source that the Bionicle use and their heartlights cannot be applied to them. While for an organism as large as the Agori to have developed and receive the necessary nutrients to sustain their energy output, they likely will have blood, but not all creatures have blood or use it in the manner that we do.

 

Regardless, the problems with indefinite lifespans and why we are not able to obtain it are because of the inconsistency of genetic replication (cancer). These mutations and changes in our body also account for aging and organ failure as the body deteriorates due to bad growth. Mutations occur every ~2.5×10−8 per 20 year cycle (that’s 1 in  every 250,000,000 per 20 year cycle given the millions of cells produced every minute) Nachman MW, Crowell SL (September 2000). However, immortality isn’t unheard of on Earth. Take the Turritopsis dohrnii and Turritopsis Aurelia for example. These jelly fish are able to make their cells undergo transdifferentiation which allows any cell to become another and create a perfect replication of itself. These jellyfish have a reversible life cycle and therefore an indefinite lifespan (He J, Zheng L, Zhang W, Lin Y et el(2015))3. However, they do still die from diseases and predators. This would explain as to why the Agori look relatively the same age and don’t show signs of wrinkles or fragility, as it might imply that the Agori are able to reverse their life cycles. Think of a backup on an iPhone. When you have problems, you can revert to an earlier backup on iTunes. In addition, the Turritopsis dohrnii and Aurelia cannot undergo life cycle reversals until they have become sexually mature. This might also explain why no Agori children have been mentioned since they are more susceptible to death, genetic mutations, and poorer healing processes than mature Agori.

 

Of course, a lot of this is still being researched (primarily for a cure to cancer as opposed to immortality), but it does show that given the ridiculously long lifespan and existence of the Agori (much longer than anything that ever existed on earth), they have either genetically engineered or evolved into beings that can have ridiculously long, if not indefinite, lifespans.

 

1. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11229709

2. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2542895/

3.http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0145314

 

Keep in mind that I am also a medical student. Not saying that makes me right, but it has some merit with regards to anatomy, physiology, and pathophysiology.

 

Edit: It is also hard to challenge the possibility of such an evolutionary and technologically advanced species because there are no other examples of sentient and complex in the known universe. While I'm not saying that the Agori are 100% legit in their anatomy/physiology, I am saying that without more data on them, or anything like them, it is impossible to count out the possibility of such a species existing.

Edited by Azon

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I never liked this in Bionicle. So, I personally replace it with Spherus Magna folks living to be up to 200 years old, the age being extended beyond natural scopes due to various augmentations and minor biologocial adjustments done by the Great Beings. The stuff about everyone remembering the Core War or having fought in it means that they remember it in legends and that their ancestor's fought in the war. Some of these ancestors, like Vastus, did acts so horrible that descendant's feel as if they need to continue to work to remove this associated distaste from their name to the modern-day after many millennia, a curse if you will. A curse shall light upon the limbs of men;  Domestic fury and fierce civil strife shall cumber all the parts of the Great Orb; Blood and destruction shall be so in use and dreadful objects so familiar that mothers shall but smile when they behold their infants quarter'd with the hands of war! All pity choked with custom of fell deeds.

 

Ahem. Sorry. Anyway, that-- that's my head canon.

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This is something I was actually puzzling over the other day. MU inhabitants having a life span of 100,000 years or more is understandable, since they are biomechanical beings. However, since the Glatorian and Agori are organic beings with mechanical implants, amongst other augmentations, it doesn't really make sense for them to be able to live for that long. I would assume the changes made to them by the Great Beings included improved cell rejuvenation, but that doesn't explain whether they would remember all 100,000+ years of their life, how quickly they would age mentally or when they would be able to reproduce. Once more MU inhabitants having memories spanning 100,000 years seems more probable, since their brains could be more closely compared to computers, as long as they don't run out of storage space. But it's interesting to think about how 100,000 years of memory would effect an organic being. Then again, I seem to remember the Glatorian and Agori in Legend Reborn seeming to have no memory of the Core War, or why their world is the way it is, which could be put down to memory loss or just artistic licence. As for mental age, you could argue that humans of the same age aren't always of the same level of maturity, so perhaps some Glatorian/Agori just 'choose' not to grow up as quickly as others, if you were to put what I said on a much larger scale, like their lifespan. Reproduction I can't think of an answer for which actually works. I would presume that Glatorian and Agori reach that level of maturity fairly early on in their lifespan, but have an extremely long adulthood due to the changes made to their species. In this case Spherus Magna should be very over populated, then again it is far bigger than Earth and the majority of the Glatorian and presumably many Agori were wiped out in the Core War.

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This is something I was actually puzzling over the other day. MU inhabitants having a life span of 100,000 years or more is understandable, since they are biomechanical beings. However, since the Glatorian and Agori are organic beings with mechanical implants, amongst other augmentations, it doesn't really make sense for them to be able to live for that long. I would assume the changes made to them by the Great Beings included improved cell rejuvenation, but that doesn't explain whether they would remember all 100,000+ years of their life, how quickly they would age mentally or when they would be able to reproduce. Once more MU inhabitants having memories spanning 100,000 years seems more probable, since their brains could be more closely compared to computers, as long as they don't run out of storage space. But it's interesting to think about how 100,000 years of memory would effect an organic being. Then again, I seem to remember the Glatorian and Agori in Legend Reborn seeming to have no memory of the Core War, or why their world is the way it is, which could be put down to memory loss or just artistic licence. As for mental age, you could argue that humans of the same age aren't always of the same level of maturity, so perhaps some Glatorian/Agori just 'choose' not to grow up as quickly as others, if you were to put what I said on a much larger scale, like their lifespan. Reproduction I can't think of an answer for which actually works. I would presume that Glatorian and Agori reach that level of maturity fairly early on in their lifespan, but have an extremely long adulthood due to the changes made to their species. In this case Spherus Magna should be very over populated, then again it is far bigger than Earth and the majority of the Glatorian and presumably many Agori were wiped out in the Core War.

With regards to memory I'lol have to compare it to the human brain, since there's no other sentient beings to compare to. The human brain is estimated to be able to hold 2.5 petabytes (2.5 million gigabytes) of information. This is so much more information than the human will ever use or need in their lifespan. Now the reason why a lot of elderly individuals is often due to Alzheimer's in which portions of the brain are seeing amyloid plaques and tau tangles as toxins break down the brain, but there have been instances in individuals with TBI who've experienced rediculous increases in their memory retrieval. Our minds process and store nearly every bit of memory in our lives and, depending on how often we access the information, the memory is retrievable. The mind also disregards "forgets" a large amount of information which it considers irrelevant. With regards to individuals being over 100,000 years old, it is still possible that they would retain information from over 80,000 years ago. Depending on how relevant it is to them or how traumatic it was, they would likely still be able to retrieve that information. Of course they would forget a lot of things too, as it is no longer relevant, but a great core war would be something that they would remember. Now, we also have to come back to the biotic tech they have too. Since we don't know what it all entails it's impossible to say wether or not information/memories are stored in a hard drive that was given to them once they reached the year 1000.

Gleaming glistens The Red Star,
Bringing life to death afar,
Up away in deepest space,
You call me from your distant place.

Proud member of the Kanohi Force (Disavowed, but never dead)

 

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I believe that the Matoran would know, on some level, what to do. The base personalities were created by the Great Beings, and heaven knows their attempts to do anything are mediocre. Velika downloaded his consciousness into a bot, so the other matoran could very well have been programmed from 'impressions' of consciousnesses from the create beings; maybe that's the reason behind elemental personalities; each element had their own GB-consciousness. In any case, the awakening to sentience may very well have unlocked biological instincts in the Matoran species. That would be why the ostensibly genderless race has romance and relationships.

 

A toa confronted with a baby might result like any new father/mother/friend of a new parent; "It's adorable, now what do I do with it?"/"you're so precious aren't you?"/"That's so cute!"

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:r: :e: :g: :i: :t: :n: :u: :i:

Elemental Rahi in Gen2, anyone? A write-up for an initial video for a G2 plot

 

I really wish everyone would stop trying to play join the dots with Gen 1 and Gen 2 though,it seems there's a couple new threads everyday and often they're duplicates of already existing conversations! Or simply parallel them with a slightly new 'twist'! Gen 2 is NEW, it is NOT Gen 1 and it is NOT a continuation. Outside of the characters we already have I personally don't want to see ANY old characters return. I think it will cheapen the whole experience to those of us familiar with the original line...

 

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