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If it's not a continuation...

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... Then it's not a very good reboot at all. I think you know what I'm talking about: Bionicle G2.

 

As I've seen so far it seems like a continuation of the original series, just in a different time and type of setting. There are many things that support the idea of it being a continuation, but also it was said that the story was to be "rebooted". If they really " reset" or rebooted the series, then I must say, it's horrible. I can honestly say that nothing about Bionicle's G2 story really appealed to me at all. Though it is more appealing to me when I can see this as a continuation of the original story while trying to create new tales as well, seeing as we have a cast of familiar old characters and a familiar setting.

 

What could happen is that they could continue off from the old story much later in the years to come, after the masks of power arc. I'm not saying it's a very good theory but it is what I would like to happen. Of course if the story truly is rebooted, it's just not very good. Not to me anyway. I suppose I enjoyed the more complex years of bionicle and I cannot enjoy a "simplified" story.

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If it's not a reboot...

 

...then it's not a very good continuation at all. I think you know what I'm talking about: Bionicle G2.

 

All I've seen so far suggests that the story is an original reimagining of Bionicle. There are many things that support the idea of it being a reboot, including the creators actually literally saying such in no uncertain terms at the theme's first announcement. But if they really intend on continuing the original story and were lying, I have to say it's horrible. A story shouldn't have to be predicated on lies and deception to stay interesting and surprising. It is more appealing to me when I look at it as a reboot of the original story—a fresh start, a brand-new story that's free to take the story and characters in a brand-new direction without having to retcon and artificially extend the classic story just to do so.

 

What could happen is that they could continue to develop the rebooted characters, mysteries, and universe in the years to come, until there's a saga that can stand on equal footing with G1's 10-year-run. I'm not saying it's much of a theory (after all, it's been explained to us as clear as day), but it is what I would like to happen. Of course, if the story truly is a continuation, it's just not very good. I suppose I enjoyed growing up with the original Bionicle story and would love to see a new take on it that can appeal to new fans without quite as many barriers to entry.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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To me, it's a reboot, because people at New York Comic Con called it. It is just starting over the Toa's arrival to an island that has their elements, and Makuta unleashed evil forces that threaten short people. The Toa had to collect golden Masks of Power to defeat evil. Think of this story like The Amazing Spider-Man movies and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series for how they recycled some old characters and stuff and introduce some new ones. Reboots are usually meant to be that start to start for how I know.

 

In Bionicle G1, it started out as complex, but in Bionicle G2, it started out as simple, but slowly builds up. The reason why that happened is because that Lego wants things to be simple enough for the young audience of today to understand better and they can catch up with the story better. If 2015 started out as a continuation of G1's story, where Velika is doing his killing spree and etc. while there is a lot going on, the kids wouldn't understand how did they happen. It would takes long time for them to learn about them due to G1's runtime. I believe Lego doesn't want kids to go through this much research, so that's why they made a reboot, which is easier for the new fans to understand.

 

I know that G2 isn't the same as G1 because G1 was never continued, but let's hope that G1 will continue in Bionicle's 15th birthday this July.:)

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The way I see it is this.

 

They are two seperate universes. G1 and G2. The Toa are from G1,

and the Vahi, since it is two pieces, when combined would allow for beings from other dimensions to be summoned to Okoto. Most likely.

 

 

To put it simply...

 

Connection =/= Continuation.

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I wouldn't be entirely surprised if there were SOME connection between G1 and G2, but I still think it'd be much more likely to be as some sort of alternate universe scenario than as a straight far-flung past or future connection. The new details about the Mask of Time seem to support that.

 

 

Ekimu says the Vahi is older than their world or even the stars. Unless G2 is so far in the future that all the stars we saw in the sky in G1 have died (in which case it's hard to say how much point there would be to treating it as a continuation), then it's probably safe to say the Mask of Time's origins in Okoto's universe aren't Vakama creating it from the Great Disks during G1's Great Cataclysm.

 

 

The way I see it is this.

 

They are two seperate universes. G1 and G2. The Toa are from G1,

and the Vahi, since it is two pieces, when combined would allow for beings from other dimensions to be summoned to Okoto. Most likely.

 

 

To put it simply...

 

Connection =/= Continuation.

 

The two parts of the Vahi weren't connected together when the Toa were summoned, though... the mask kept in the Temple of Time, which the Protectors used, was only the top half.

 

 

But I agree that a connection is possible without one generation being a continuation of the other.

Edited by Aanchir
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If it's not a reboot...

 

...then it's not a very good continuation at all. I think you know what I'm talking about: Bionicle G2.

 

All I've seen so far suggests that the story is an original reimagining of Bionicle. There are many things that support the idea of it being a reboot, including the creators actually literally saying such in no uncertain terms at the theme's first announcement. But if they really intend on continuing the original story and were lying, I have to say it's horrible. A story shouldn't have to be predicated on lies and deception to stay interesting and surprising.

 

You act like you've never seen a plot twist before or a red herring before. I mean, if they want it to be a surprise I don't think it's fair to call them sick liars for trying to tell an interesting story. I agree, I'm usually not huge on plot twists and JJ Abram's "Surprise box" as means of keeping a story interesting, but it's not inherently bad and they only stated once that it was a reboot, which doesn't inherently mean it can't be anything more. I agree, I don't like it when story tellers lie outside of their work about it, but what's to be done.

 

I think the more likely idea is that it's not a continuation but is in some shape or form connected to G1, whatever that may be. I could be as mild as an easter egg to a smaller plot point for all we know. As everyone has said, I think it's more likely to be an alternate universe or something rather than direct past/future.

 

I agree, it's cooler to have a reboot in a lot of the cases, but G2 has been remarkably unspectacular so far and I think for a lot of people they want to see something interesting. Can you entirely blame them? G2 just isn't as strong as people wanted it to be, and yes you can keep building it and making it stronger as it goes on, and that's fine but most people don't think it'll last that long to get that chance, and they want it to end on a note where it actually means something more to them than just a less-than satisfying reboot to something they once loved. Being Bionicle isn't enough to be good, so for many I can't call them stupid fan boys/girls for wanting to at least be reminded of the past.

Edited by Banana Gunz
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If it's not a reboot...

 

...then it's not a very good continuation at all. I think you know what I'm talking about: Bionicle G2.

 

All I've seen so far suggests that the story is an original reimagining of Bionicle. There are many things that support the idea of it being a reboot, including the creators actually literally saying such in no uncertain terms at the theme's first announcement. But if they really intend on continuing the original story and were lying, I have to say it's horrible. A story shouldn't have to be predicated on lies and deception to stay interesting and surprising.

 

You act like you've never seen a plot twist before or a red herring before. I mean, if they want it to be a surprise I don't think it's fair to call them sick liars for trying to tell an interesting story. I agree, I'm usually not huge on plot twists and JJ Abram's "Surprise box" as means of keeping a story interesting, but it's not inherently bad and they only stated once that it was a reboot, which doesn't inherently mean it can't be anything more. I agree, I don't like it when story tellers lie outside of their work about it, but what's to be done.

 

I think the more likely idea is that it's not a continuation but is in some shape or form connected to G1, whatever that may be. I could be as mild as an easter egg to a smaller plot point for all we know. As everyone has said, I think it's more likely to be an alternate universe or something rather than direct past/future.

 

I agree, it's cooler to have a reboot in a lot of the cases, but G2 has been remarkably unspectacular so far and I think for a lot of people they want to see something interesting. Can you entirely blame them? G2 just isn't as strong as people wanted it to be, and yes you can keep building it and making it stronger as it goes on, and that's fine but most people don't think it'll last that long to get that chance, and they want it to end on a note where it actually means something more to them than just a less-than satisfying reboot to something they once loved. Being Bionicle isn't enough to be good, so for many I can't call them stupid fan boys/girls for wanting to at least be reminded of the past.

 

I've seen plot twists and red herrings before. And there are both good ones and bad ones. A good plot twist is one that is hard to predict and yet makes the story make MORE sense with that context than it did without. A good red herring is an obvious-seeming clue that suggests a simple answer to a mystery, even though the actual, more complex answer makes more logical sense based on less obvious clues and context. Lying to the audience outside of the work to misdirect them is not an example of either, and while it has been done before (as in your J.J. Abrams example) you can hardly point to that as an example of good storytelling or a healthy creator/fan relationship.

 

The issue is that every theory I've seen suggesting a connection or ESPECIALLY a continuation has been an example of a BAD plot twist—a twist that often defies logic (requiring retcons of G1 and/or G2 to make it work), makes the story make LESS sense in context (raising more questions than it provides answers to), and undermines the specific advantages of the G2 story (it being a self-contained story without all the baggage and barriers to entry that came from G1).

 

As for whether I can "blame" people for wanting a more interesting or in-depth story for G2? No, I can't. What I CAN blame them for is injecting negativity about G2 into any single topic of discussion regardless of whether it's even relevant, hoping for darkness, grittiness, or complexity as a substitute for good storytelling, and allowing their unending hatred of G2 to blind them to the actual good aspects of it. All this recent discussion about the Mask of Time? That came from the latest graphic novel. But people are choosing to focus on any small aspect of that that could possibly hint at a connection to G1, instead of actually talking about the book itself—an awful shame, because the storytelling in that book is actually top-notch and has incredible emotional weight to it. The G2 story can improve without a connection to G1, and in fact is actually doing so—but you wouldn't know this by looking at discussions on BZPower.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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I've seen plot twists and red herrings before. And there are both good ones and bad ones. A good plot twist is one that is hard to predict and yet makes the story make MORE sense with that context than it did without. A good red herring is an obvious-seeming clue that suggests a simple answer to a mystery, even though the actual, more complex answer makes more logical sense based on less obvious clues and context. Lying to the audience outside of the work to misdirect them is not an example of either, and while it has been done before (as in your J.J. Abrams example) you can hardly point to that as an example of good storytelling or a healthy creator/fan relationship.

 

 

Alright, I can definitely agree with this actually. That's been my main criticism with the recent Star Wars movie is JJ Abram's idea of how surprise makes a better movie no matter what, and Star Trek Into Darkness is a really good example of how that flops/doesn't work, because the twist doesn't actually end up adding anything to the film. So I definitely see your feelings about how a twist like this wouldn't actually make the story any better, and I can largely agree.

 

 

 

The issue is that every theory I've seen suggesting a connection or ESPECIALLY a continuation has been an example of a BAD plot twist—a twist that often defies logic (requiring retcons of G1 and/or G2 to make it work), makes the story make LESS sense in context (raising more questions than it provides answers to), and undermines the specific advantages of the G2 story (it being a self-contained story without all the baggage and barriers to entry that came from G1).

 

As for whether I can "blame" people for wanting a more interesting or in-depth story for G2? No, I can't. What I CAN blame them for is injecting negativity about G2 into any single topic of discussion regardless of whether it's even relevant, hoping for darkness, grittiness, or complexity as a substitute for good storytelling, and allowing their unending hatred of G2 to blind them to the actual good aspects of it. All this recent discussion about the Mask of Time? That came from the latest graphic novel. But people are choosing to focus on any small aspect of that that could possibly hint at a connection to G1, instead of actually talking about the book itself—an awful shame, because the storytelling in that book is actually top-notch and has incredible emotional weight to it. The G2 story can improve without a connection to G1, and in fact is actually doing so—but you wouldn't know his by looking at discussions on BZPower.

 

 

You bring up really good points about how G2 may actually benefit from being more contained, it's just it doesn't seem like it's been taking advantage of those benefits and most people don't seem to think that it will if the story continues the way it has been.

 

And I don't think people are hoping for "darkness" or "grittiness" and expecting it to make the story better. I think that for Bionicle a darker story can be appropriate, which doesn't mean what most people think it does. Draining the color out of it and making it moody and depressing with dark tones and motifs is one of the worst crimes in my opinion for most properties (ie Man of Steel), whereas a dark story is one that is actually heavier iin terms of concept. For example, Legend of Korra (finished watching it months ago, I LOVE) is a children's show with humor and color, but that show is REALLY dark. No spoilers to anyone that hasn't seen it, but it gets really creepy and scary at points, and I felt so sorry that they let go of the first villain in the show that genuinely felt like a terrifying and scary threat. And as a whole I don't think most Bionicle fans want G2 to be darker or grittier, they just want it to be more complex and interesting. None of the Toa are really interesting or developed right now and the plot doesn't feel smart or new in any way so far.

 

And I don't think that or the want for complexity is bad at all or is what's making people hate G2, and I think those are valid criticisms for some who are looking for that in the story and I wouldn't call them blind haters for having personal, valid criticisms of it.

 

And I can see what you're saying about perhaps the dissatisfaction with G2 flooding out conversation about the good of it, but people are getting more excited now about it with the new image of the Vahi, which is enough because Bionicle needs some optimism right now. I can agree, it's probably healthier for us to focus more on the theme as it is right now rather than jump on hope for connections, but still, people are talking about Bionicle as a result and there's a lot of hopeful conversation about it as a whole. People are always gonna be looking for connections here the same way people are always going to be looking for Rey's parentage/lineage from The Force Awakens. Is it the best? Probably not, but it keeps people talking about the property and it was set up in such a way that it can't be unexpected. (sorry if this last paragraph doesn't make a ton of sense. I had difficulty responding because I mostly agree with you in this case and I'm kinda tired lol)

Edited by Banana Gunz
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Official statements still beat wild fan theories.

Honestly, I really don't want G2 to be a continuation of G1, and currently there is absolutely no evidence that it will be. Calling the G2 MoT the Vahi, and making it so that the G1 Vahi fits the lower half is merely and allusion - more than an easter egg, but definitely not a sign of the two tales being linked.

 

Personally, I see this as a great way to expand on the G2 lore, giving it a chance to grow and develop. This MoT reveal simply shows Lego is setting up something big. 

 

If anything, this doesn't mean that G1 and G2 are linked - all it means is that G2 won't end in 2017!

 

And I ask again (I've brought this up before) - were you actually around in 2001 and 2002? Calling G2 simple compared to G1 is so fundamentally flawed that it's both hilarious and painful. G1 only really got "complex" and "deep" in 2003 when the additional story material was released. 2015/16 isn't even marginally more simplified than the first two years of G1. And I say this as someone who followed G1 from '01 to '10 in real time, loved every second to it and continue to absolutely adore it. 

 

Even so, the baseless arguments of the anti G2 crowd keep popping up. I mean, you're more than welcome to have your opinion. You can prefer G1 - I prefer G1. However outright falsehoods ain't okay.

 

:kakama:

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I personally think it'd be kinda fun if it were a continuation. My pet theory is that it's sett in an alternate dimension. That'd be fun because:
 

1. They'd still have all the freedom in the world to start over.

2. I like the alternate dimension story, especially from '08.

3. LEGO could have Takanuva pop out of nowhere, wink at the fans, do anything they need doing (anything from a deus ex machina to a wink at the camera) then have him disappear into another dimension.

 

I don't think it's at all likely, but I'd enjoy it.

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I personally think it'd be kinda fun if it were a continuation. My pet theory is that it's sett in an alternate dimension. That'd be fun because:

 

1. They'd still have all the freedom in the world to start over.

2. I like the alternate dimension story, especially from '08.

3. LEGO could have Takanuva pop out of nowhere, wink at the fans, do anything they need doing (anything from a deus ex machina to a wink at the camera) then have him disappear into another dimension.

 

I don't think it's at all likely, but I'd enjoy it.

The possibility of characters popping over from the G1 dimension is actually one of the main reasons I dislike the alternate universe theory. The dimension-hopping of characters like Takanuva and Vezon was actually one of my least favorite parts of G1. Most of the time it resulted in either isolated adventures with no meaningful bearing on the plot, or interlopers from alternate dimensions complicating things by showing up in the main universe and complicating it with their presence. I don't want to see that happen to G2 any more than I wanted it to happen back in G1.

 

Otherwise, on a primarily metafictional level, I'm fine with the idea of G2 being an alternate universe from G1. I love when authors use a multiverse to explore variations on a theme, and the idea that there are an almost infinite number of possible Bionicle universes is quite compelling. I just don't want that to end up reduced to random cameos and deus ex machinas, or to be overused the way it tended to be in G1's later years.


Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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I personally think it'd be kinda fun if it were a continuation. My pet theory is that it's sett in an alternate dimension. That'd be fun because:

 

1. They'd still have all the freedom in the world to start over.

2. I like the alternate dimension story, especially from '08.

3. LEGO could have Takanuva pop out of nowhere, wink at the fans, do anything they need doing (anything from a deus ex machina to a wink at the camera) then have him disappear into another dimension.

 

I don't think it's at all likely, but I'd enjoy it.

The possibility of characters popping over from the G1 dimension is actually one of the main reasons I dislike the alternate universe theory. The dimension-hopping of characters like Takanuva and Vezon was actually one of my least favorite parts of G1. Most of the time it resulted in either isolated adventures with no meaningful bearing on the plot, or interlopers from alternate dimensions complicating things by showing up in the main universe and complicating it with their presence. I don't want to see that happen to G2 any more than I wanted it to happen back in G1.

 

Otherwise, on a primarily metafictional level, I'm fine with the idea of G2 being an alternate universe from G1. I love when authors use a multiverse to explore variations on a theme, and the idea that there are an almost infinite number of possible Bionicle universes is quite compelling. I just don't want that to end up reduced to random cameos and deus ex machinas, or to be overused the way it tended to be in G1's later years.

 

I disliked Takanuva's dimension hopping mostly because it was meaningless, especially for such a central character.

I adored Vezon's dimension hopping mostly because it was meaningless, fitting the character perfectly.

 

Seriously, I want a Vezon easter egg/cameo. I don't want it to have any effect on the story, I just want him to pop up for like 5 seconds, long enough for everyone to go like "what?" and then him to disappear.

 

He doesn't even need to be named, just something like "suddenly, a particularly ugly and twisted being with a large golden mask fused to his head appeared, seemingly out of thin air, muttered something about "anarchy" under his breath before being yanked back into whatever ethereal abyss he arrived from"

 

:kakama:

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I personally loved the Takanuva dimension hopping. (I'm a sucker for alternate dimensions.) However, I don't think having any G1 characters randomly pop up in G2 would benefit the story in any way. My belief is that the Lego team was just drawing inspiration from earlier Bionicle by naming this mask the Vahi, and that we won't be seeing any elements of a continuation for a while.

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Some dimension-hopping cameos would be great - a Vezon one for sure, maybe a Takanuva. Perhaps a portal opens and whoever it is on Okoto sees an event and/or characters from G1 through it. That'd be nice. 


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Bionicle G2 apologists who will also support the theory of Ekimu being evil, but god forbid the fact it could be a continuation would actually do the story any justice...

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How the heck is a continuation going to magically improve the story? 

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How the heck is a continuation going to magically improve the story?

The answer is it wouldn't, which makes me wonder why on earth people who LIKE G1 but DISLIKE G2 are so insistent that there be a connection. All you're doing by doing that is grafting the problems with the G2 story onto the G1 story (and vice-versa). You'd think people who hate G2 would rather have G1 remain independent for that reason, but for some reason that hardly ever seems to be the case.

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

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I understand what you mean by G2 just not being all that impressive when compared to G1, I think a lot of fans share this opinion, but that's why I personally would prefer G2 to be a separate entity to G1. This discussion of whether G2 is a continuation or a reboot has been circulating for some  and (not necessarily in this topic, I've only skim-read the previous posts) seems to be quite heated, so I'll try not to cause argument or offence with what I say.

 

However, I cannot see any possible way that G2 is a continuation. Ok, so the recent reveal of the G2 Vahi (and it being called the 'Vahi') gives the impression that there could be some link between G1 and G2, but I feel that this is not saying 'hey, it's actually a continuation', being instead something along the lines of a nod towards G1. I can't deny I did not like the fact that G2 was a reboot when that was first revealed, but I stand by my beliefs that if G2 was a continuation, Lego wouldn't have said otherwise.

 

The character names are the same, the basic principles are the same, but if they weren't then it may as well have been an entirely new line. Just because Tahu's name is Tahu, doesn't mean he has to be the same character. In fact, asides from anything else all the Toa are 'younger' in G2, so them being the same heroes from G1 does not make much sense. Again, there's the possible Vahi connection, but the Vahi could only speed up and slow down time, not reverse it. Alright, so the G2 Vahi is the top half, maybe it or the full mask had more diverse powers, but I doubt that's what supposedly happened.

 

Even if you do want to believe that the Vahi did somehow bring the G1 Toa to Okoto and make them somehow younger in personality (despite them not technically ageing to the best of my knowledge), there's the issue which is my main reason for not believing G2 to be a reboot, and that's the change in lore. Now, elemental powers come from the masks and, while it does seem as though the story's moving away from that now and elemental masks existing in G1, it is still a change in lore. And if you want to argue that maybe they're wearing masks forged from Toa Disks (or whatever they were called), where did their powers go? Also, there's the link between a Toa's power and their mask.

 

Once more, you could make the counterargument that maybe it's an AU, but from my understanding of what an AU would entail, and what's shown in the G1 canon, even an Au would have the same laws of physics. In all the AUs we see in G1, Toa powers and Kanohi still work in the same way. I realise that for everything I say there is a counterargument, so I'll try to draw things to a close now, but G1 does have an incredibly diverse and complex storyline, so there're bound to be what appear to be connections if you dig deep enough, that doesn't make them true, though.

 

G2 is most likely a reboot and I'll agree with you that, as a G1 fan, it's not what I'd hoped for story wise. However, I can't think of any Lego theme released after the end of G1 that has a storyline of equal complexity or one that keeps me as enthralled. Yes, there're other themes with a better story than G2, but Bionicle has already ended once, so Lego perhaps aren't yet fully on board with throwing everything into a reboot. Admittedly this may be the downfall of G2, but it's understandable and G1 had 10 years to build up its storyline. And you can't forget that Lego are a toy company, the story is made for the sets, not the other way around. While I myself am interesting in a complex and mysterious storyline, most of Lego's 'target audience', from my own experience, don't care about the story. The kids I know, who are interested in buying and playing with Bionicle, know nothing about the story. They think the Toa are the Protector's parents and they call Bionicle 'Hero Factory', but they still buy the sets and that's what matters to Lego. I am by no means saying that Lego couldn't care less about the story behind their toys, they put a lot of work into said stories, but that is not the main source of income for Lego. when G1 was around it was aimed at a much wider age-range, from six year olds to sixteen year olds (just to quote the recommended ages on the boxes). Older kids just aren't really interested in that kind of thing anymore I guess, so the story doesn't need to be as in depth perhaps.

So yes, I think G2 is a reboot. It's story may be lacking, but it has potential and the sets are pretty good. However, now that I've finished this 'essay', I should probably get onto the one I was meant to be doing...

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... Then it's not a very good reboot at all. I think you know what I'm talking about: Bionicle G2.

 

As I've seen so far it seems like a continuation of the original series, just in a different time and type of setting. There are many things that support the idea of it being a continuation, but also it was said that the story was to be "rebooted". If they really " reset" or rebooted the series, then I must say, it's horrible. I can honestly say that nothing about Bionicle's G2 story really appealed to me at all. Though it is more appealing to me when I can see this as a continuation of the original story while trying to create new tales as well, seeing as we have a cast of familiar old characters and a familiar setting.

 

What could happen is that they could continue off from the old story much later in the years to come, after the masks of power arc. I'm not saying it's a very good theory but it is what I would like to happen. Of course if the story truly is rebooted, it's just not very good. Not to me anyway. I suppose I enjoyed the more complex years of bionicle and I cannot enjoy a "simplified" story.

 

I agree to some extent. If we compare it to the entire run of G1 (which is kinda unfair) indeed, the new version feels more incomplete. But  the actual g2 story, seen as an individual narrative is not lacking in potential, is just severely underplayed. In a sense I can get it, the bare-bones information makes you want to crave more, so you either search for more story materials like the books, graphic novels and series, or you create a fanfiction (regardless of it is published or not). No offense intended, but your way of seeing a canonical connection with the G1 storyline sort of falls into the same category.

 

Believe me, I get how you feel: All those memorable characters and story left in the dust, and then a seemengly subpar reboot comes at the expense of the original story kinda feels like a betrayal. But hating the new story just because is not directly linked to the original one is something I cannot agree with (I dunno... maybe is my way to cope with it).

 

Why is the concept of a reboot such anathema to G1 fans?

 

As I said before, leaving the G1 story in the dust and then making a reboot with a different and more "kiddie" story kinda feels like a betrayal to some, including me, but I had to cope with it. Is it fair that we feel like this? Yes. Is Lego obliged to meet our demands? Not really, I honestly wasn't expecting Bionicle to have a reboot. And in a lot of ways it feels like a new story using the old motifs and some names to feel familiar, yet it still manages to be its own thing. And that is also the way that we should look at it, both as a reboot and as a separate thing. Still, I reach the same conclusion on both analisis: The sets are great, for the most part; the story has potential, I hope it reaches it.

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Why is the concept of a reboot such anathema to G1 fans?

 

As I said before, leaving the G1 story in the dust and then making a reboot with a different and more "kiddie" story kinda feels like a betrayal to some, including me, but I had to cope with it. Is it fair that we feel like this? Yes. Is Lego obliged to meet our demands? Not really, I honestly wasn't expecting Bionicle to have a reboot. And in a lot of ways it feels like a new story using the old motifs and some names to feel familiar, yet it still manages to be its own thing. And that is also the way that we should look at it, both as a reboot and as a separate thing. Still, I reach the same conclusion on both analisis: The sets are great, for the most part; the story has potential, I hope it reaches it.

 

How is making a reboot following a finished story leaving it in the dust?

​Also, no. It's not fair that you feel like you've been betrayed by a children's toyline, it just makes you sound super entitled.

​EDIT: Nevermind, now that I read it, it sounds like you're condemning people who say they're "betrayed" by the reboot.

Edited by Pat Lee
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I wouldn't call the G1 story finished, it just ended kind of meh and dragged on until it stopped in the middle of some big revelations. Even if I chose to consider the 2010 story as the end and disregard the rest, it still feels like a subpar ending after almost ten years of story.

 

Maybe it makes me sound "super entitled", but that doesn't change the fact that I feel that way. Feelings don't have to be rational, they just get rationalized. Regardless of it being a children toyline, the story influenced me deeply. This "It's for childen" argument never makes sense to me.

 

Also, I'm not condemnig anyone. I'm only explaining why I think people who prefer G1 and don't like G2 feel that way. I personally like both stories and hope that G2 can stand proudly along it's previous incarnations.

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The story only ended like that because Greg kept dragging it out and adding a bunch of unneccesary stuff. His intentions for the Red Star come to mind.

​Also, my argument was never "it's for children" as in, "you cannot enjoy it if you're older" it was, "it was aimed at children and they were its target audience, and you are acting entitled by saying LEGO has betrayed you by doing something new and simple and not doing a dumb gritty adult reboot like everyone wants for some reason." The old storyline was overtly complex and only seemed "mature" because it tried too hard to be dark and serious and was allowed to say the word "kill." The 2006 storyline's a perfect example of this.

​I like G2 as well, and honestly if I didn't have more of a connection with G1 I'd prefer it.

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Let's say it is a continuation.

 

(sir please put the war hammer away)

 

We some how find out G2 is the far flung future of G1.

It wouldn't change the story level.

It still will be were its at.

 

Also look at G2's first two years and only G1's first two years.

 

Both had simple story's with the only difference being we had more names to characters in G1.

Besides that they are at the same level.


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How the heck is a continuation going to magically improve the story?

Because without it, the new story has nothing to stand on and also it needs another side of events to happen, besides "The toa are here and now they're killing skull spiders!"

Let's say it is a continuation.

 

(sir please put the war hammer away)

 

We some how find out G2 is the far flung future of G1.

It wouldn't change the story level.

It still will be were its at.

 

Also look at G2's first two years and only G1's first two years.

 

Both had simple story's with the only difference being we had more names to characters in G1.

Besides that they are at the same level.

NO NO NO they are NOT the same level, and anyone who enjoyed Bionicle back in '01 can tell you there's a BIG DIFFERENCE. Yes there are more names and characters, a story needs a bunch of those though? And Mata-nui had a well fleshed out story and island, even complete with the online flash game and the GBA games. No, they are NOT on the same level. At all. I'm sorry, but 2001 had Rahi, Matoran, Turaga and Toa. That's the most characters introduced in any bionicle arc, and some of the most well thought out sets ever created. 2015 tried to get a huge hype train filled up with passengers only to crash into the pie slice island that is Okoto.

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How the heck is a continuation going to magically improve the story?

Because without it, the new story has nothing to stand on and also it needs another side of events to happen, besides "The toa are here and now they're killing skull spiders!"

Let's say it is a continuation.

 

(sir please put the war hammer away)

 

We some how find out G2 is the far flung future of G1.

It wouldn't change the story level.

It still will be were its at.

 

Also look at G2's first two years and only G1's first two years.

 

Both had simple story's with the only difference being we had more names to characters in G1.

Besides that they are at the same level.

NO NO NO they are NOT the same level, and anyone who enjoyed Bionicle back in '01 can tell you there's a BIG DIFFERENCE. Yes there are more names and characters, a story needs a bunch of those though? And Mata-nui had a well fleshed out story and island, even complete with the online flash game and the GBA games. No, they are NOT on the same level. At all. I'm sorry, but 2001 had Rahi, Matoran, Turaga and Toa. That's the most characters introduced in any bionicle arc, and some of the most well thought out sets ever created. 2015 tried to get a huge hype train filled up with passengers only to crash into the pie slice island that is Okoto.

 

I enjoyed Bionicle in '01. 

loved Bionicle in '01, and still love G1 and the first two years of it especially.

 

And there is barely any marginal difference. A few more fantasy names and MNOG are basically all there is. Rahi, Matoran, Turaga and Toa are 4 things that you listed. 2015 has Protectors, Villagers, Skull Spiders, Toa and Undead. Even the mask makers might be non protector/villages species for not belonging to any tribe.

You keep bringing up depth and complexity - but that only came to some extent in '03 via the books.

 

MNOG is basically the only thing G1's early years had over G2 - and as well loved that game is (by me as well, put the pitchforks away), it isn't enough to warrant calling G2 significantly simpler.

 

Plus '01 didn't have a pretty long animation series to it, and '02 didn't have anything in the league of Journey to One.

 

Look, hate G2 all you want. You're entitled to your opinion,but you're only hurting your own argument by saying things that are quantifiably, provably, and clearly not true.

 

Honestly 01/02 and 15/16 are pretty much on the same level, and refusing to accept that is relatable to sticking one's head in the proverbial sand.

 

:kakama:


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Let's put it this way:

G1 was interesting from the start.

G2 wasn't. Still isn't.

 

 

At this point, the argument is starting to sound eerily similar to that of the one made by the people who defend Destiny.

"If you read the grimoire, everything is better! Just wait for the next DLC to come out, and then the game will be more fleshed out!" etc. etc.

(This is rather ironic, since I actually enjoy playing Destiny)

Edited by You just lost the game
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I'm sorry, but 2001 had Rahi, Matoran, Turaga and Toa.

So?  Having ~20 named characters isn't the key to a good story, especially when most of them do little of consequence.  Not counting the Rahi, because they weren't characters so much as obstacles, like the Skull Spiders were last year.

 

Let's put it this way:

G1 was interesting from the start.

G2 wasn't. Still isn't.

I think your interest in the line, or lack thereof, has less to do with the quality than it does with the fact that you were three years old when G1 started.

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Bionicle G2 apologists who will also support the theory of Ekimu being evil, but god forbid the fact it could be a continuation would actually do the story any justice...

 

Beware oversimplification of the opposing side. "G2 apologists" are not some monolithic entity, and I'm pretty sure most of the people I've seen disagreeing with you in this topic also disagree with overhashed "what if good guy is bad guy" theories.

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Let's put it this way:

G1 was interesting from the start.

G2 wasn't. Still isn't.

 

Not to be confrontational, but I don't see how personal opinions are points of argument.

I'm not issuing an attack here - you're more than welcome to dislike G2. I too prefer G1, but personally like G2 as well.

 

While I don't see much point in the "G1 vs G2" debate, since everyone should just like and dislike whatever they feel like and let that be the end of it, but if we've gone and engaged in debate, can we please not get stuck at the level of "I don't like what you like, therefore what you like is objectively bad"?

 

Just a PSA, no need to get angry.

 

:kakama:

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I write stories, which you can read at A Beach, Somewhere. My MOCs can be found on Flickr and Instagram

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The story only ended like that because Greg kept dragging it out and adding a bunch of unneccesary stuff. His intentions for the Red Star come to mind.

 

​Also, my argument was never "it's for children" as in, "you cannot enjoy it if you're older" it was, "it was aimed at children and they were its target audience, and you are acting entitled by saying LEGO has betrayed you by doing something new and simple and not doing a dumb gritty adult reboot like everyone wants for some reason." The old storyline was overtly complex and only seemed "mature" because it tried too hard to be dark and serious and was allowed to say the word "kill." The 2006 storyline's a perfect example of this.

 

​I like G2 as well, and honestly if I didn't have more of a connection with G1 I'd prefer it.

 

Even if they made a "dumb gritty adult reboot", if it had left behind the G1 story, I would still want the original story to have a good conclusion. But in the end, G2 is here to (hopefully) stay, and with it getting better as time goes on, I'd rather prefer to enjoy it while it lasts.

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Let's be honest: 

 

G1 was actually very simple in premise. It just had plenty of worldbuilding and character development over 10 years backing it up. Besides, it too was flawed. 

 

Unfinished serials? Non-canon love? And who can forget the Red Star?  <_<

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Heh well it can't be as flawed as trying to recycle characters from that storyline and then trying to say you're doing it better this time. The villagers are in G2, no distinction, same mask and same "oooh please save us" while matoran from G1 had their own personalities, masks, and skills. Basically now in G2 I hardly feel like anyone's getting saved at all. I just feel like it's a big "ohhh here come the heroes! And now they're killing skull spiders!"

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Heh well it can't be as flawed as trying to recycle characters from that storyline and then trying to say you're doing it better this time. The villagers are ###### in G2, no distinction, same mask and same "oooh please save us" while matoran from G1 had their own personalities, masks, and skills. Basically now in G2 I hardly feel like anyone's getting saved at all. I just feel like it's a big "ohhh here come the heroes! And now they're killing skull spiders!"

 

Reusing characters isn't a flaw by any stretch of the imagination. Neither is actually having the story focus on the main heroes, instead of being told primarily from the perspective of innocent bystanders. Would I love to see more villager characters and such? Sure! But the only reason we haven't is that there are no actual sets of those characters that need to be promoted this time around. If we ever get villagers other than the Protectors as characters, you can be sure they'll suddenly be getting a lot more characterization and focus in the story. And the characters who HAVE appeared as sets (the Toa, Protectors, and Ekimu) have gotten plenty of development and plenty of time to shine.

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 matoran from G1 had their own [...] masks

No they didn't.  Up until 2008 they only used masks made for the Toa and Turaga.  Even the unique molds in 2008 were supposed to be "Noble" versions of their respective Toa's masks.

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Basically now in G2 I hardly feel like anyone's getting saved at all. I just feel like it's a big "ohhh here come the heroes! And now they're killing skull spiders!"

 

But... isn't the hero coming in to defeat the enemy saving people from that threat...?

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Look, all I'm basically saying is that there is just no depth of the story, I mean come on just look at Takua and his life, it was so much more than any of the new bionicle characters, even Ekimu. He was just one simple matoran, but yet he has so many adventures and he meets so many different types of people, yet in the new bionicle the villagers are just generic run of the mill damsels in distress... They all having the same mask bothers me extremely for the fact they none of them are unique. But that's just one thing, you have to factor in more things such as the depth of their world, they need to give you more imposing ideas and values. I don't know, I'm not saying the new bionicle is completely bad because it's not, but they needed to learn this lesson a long time ago. That's why I say that if it's not a continuation then it's terrible is because they built a standard in the first generation and they needed to live up to that standard. Lego tried to hype everyone up as if it was going to best thing that's ever happened... But it was not. I'm sorry if I sound 'toxic' or distasteful but this is just how I see it and I'd like it if it could be taken into account.

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