G1 vs. G2 Debate and Discussion

[ToaTImeLord]

I give you the official
G1 vs. G2 Debate

I like to put some rules down before you start the getting out your war hammers.
1.Please keep it civil.
2.If you bring up a point of argument back it up with some facts.
(anything canon will help your argument)
3.This one is more of a request try and keep the debate in this topic.

Besides that you may begin.

Edited May 7, 2016 by -Windrider-

[Lyichir]

I'm pretty sure there are rules against trying to force discussion like this into a single "official" topic like this without staff approval. As much as I'd love to do something about the proliferation of G1 vs. G2 arguments in practically every Bionicle-related topic, this is not the way to go about it.

[Aanchir]

The all-caps, matter-of-fact topic title feels a bit needlessly confrontational to me. It'll be tough to keep things civil if people who prefer G1 come into the topic already feeling attacked. :/

 

I'm definitely as frustrated as you are with so many topics being derailed with G1 vs. G2 debates, but at the same time, I'm not sure a topic like this is the solution.

[Regitnui]

1. It's a bit premature to directly compare the two generations, given G2 hasn't made it through the first storyline yet.

 

2. The first post comes across a little passive-aggressive: "Stop clogging up my g2 discussion with your g1 comparisons", essentially.

 

3. Little pigs got chased by the big bad wolf

 

4. G1 canon even now fluctuates depending on the individual and what sources they use.

 

5. Can you call a topic official when the staff weren't involved?

[Kopekemaster]

Although I am fond of a good debate, I agree with most of what's been said already.

And I've seen a number of threads recently that have just been about "tired of seeing people speak ill of G2, let's be positive about it" or whatever. Which is fine in and of itself, of course, but they're getting kind of redundant.

 

Also, I don't know if comparing G2 to G1 is that great of an idea. As Regitnui said, G2 is still pretty early on in its lifespan, so we can't fully know what it's going to be like yet, and more importantly, I don't think comparing the two is the best way to go about all this. They're very different, after all, so why not let them be their own things? It's not like G2 is going to "ruin" G1 for anyone or something, we still have G1 in its media and sets and stuff. We can like or dislike G2 on its own merits without comparing it to something that most of us already have very good memories and nostalgia for.

[Tuuli]

G1 was the best. G2 wouldn't be anything if it weren't for G1. But I feel like that's where they have gone wrong, G2 is living in the shadow of the G1 story. Though hopefully, within the next couple of years, the story may see a change. Though I am not fond of Ekimu saving the Toa every time...

[Pohaturon]

Can we please not do this? Please? 

Several commenters above me have already brought up several points why we shouldn't be doing this.

 

I mean, I get this is the internet and all therefore respecting one another's personal opinions and trying to enjoy a common fandom is impossible, but this doesn't help. 

Yes, having other topics derailed by G1 vs G2 debates is annoying. I admit I've been part of more than one of them.

 

But this? This can only possibly end in disaster.

 

[Toa Imrukii]

A bit on the nose, don't you say?

 

 

To make the argument, let me just say that G1 and G2 have their pros and cons. We as fans need to stop bickering about this however. G1 was good, but it had it's flaws, many of which being painfully apparent. Such as, complex names that drove away people from buying the sets, a story that while good got extremely overly complex, many fragile pieces such as the dreaded lime-green ball socket, need I say more?

 

The pros of G1 is that it had a fantastic story if you could get past the varying complexities that plagued it. The set design was mostly solid and fun to build for much of the time, and the overall message of the original theme is impactful and grand.

 

Whilst with G2 the cons of it are; the story isn't as complex as G1, some of the sets are moderately simple, and the characters are a bit dull.

 

However, the pros are that; the story isn't overly complex, in fact though it may be simple it is certainly catching up and becoming much more enjoyable yet retaining an easy to follow formula thus far. The sets are extremely solid with the 2016 Toa being by far the best sets BIONICLE has brought to the table, the gimmicks are balanced and fair whilst retaining a certain charm and quality about them that makes them more than simply toys, more over it defines the characters the sets are trying to convey whilst if we look at what they did in G1 equivalent to this, they failed to capture such astonishment and aw. Amongst said gimmicks, such as the masks fitting on like proper masks, the weapons being rather interesting both in playability and design. These little things give G2 a certain charm that though was apparent for a lot of G1, it became void and nonexistent as time went on and on with the past generation.

 

 

But, in the end all that I personally have to say is this; The fools who compare something that had a longevity of 10 or more years to that in which has just been born is a foolish, stupid, and blind endeavor which will ultimately end up in failure on the part of those who try in vain to defend something against it's relative which is so small. Almost as if it is an elephant afraid of a mouse in the sense that it is completely and utterly pointless to attack something which will only hurt the person attacking it, whilst being blind to the fact that the thing they love is not truly gone, instead it is still with them, this new theme however is not innately hurting them, it is simply something new and irrelevant to the old.

 

Meaning that it is pointless to bicker about such trivial things in life.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Toa Imrukii

[Arcee]

This reminds me of Homestuck communities honestly. On MSPA's official forums they had to quarantine discussions about Vriska Serket to its own thread and it went on for years. That said though I'm not sure that's the best approach lol. It's irritating to have something so base-breaking that it completely derails every discussion on a forum, but maybe there's something less harsh as trying to corral all discussion into one chaotic place.

 

Forums are funny places. As a medium forums seem to value calm and civil discussions over people yelling at each other, but a forum is where someone goes when they're passionate enough about something to get mad about it. I think some level of not feeding trolls would be advisable in something like a discussion about toys but like, that's just my opinion I guess and something you can't really...enforce.

 

Something relevant to the discussion, though, since I want to contribute to the OP: I think G1 and G2 are apples and oranges in a way. Every time I miss G1 I have fan works to turn to! G2's building system is a lot of fun though. I think not having fun with Bionicle is against the very reason I still like Bionicle as a 23-year-old. It's an escape from real-world stress I guess. G1 and G2 are both fun and I hardly have any desire to compare them.

Edit: typo

Edited May 6, 2016 by Arcee

[MrSciFiGuy]

1) Click-bait title

2) old and unnecessary repetitive topic

3) G1 and G2 are their own respective creative endeavors. If people have qualms about it, just think if it as an Alternate Universe, that so happens to have merchandise for sale. 

4) G2 isnt that bad. Its fun and interesting but now we approach it with an adult mindset rather than the eyes of wonder as children/young adults

[Tuuli]

@MrSciFi It's not so much that I'm looking at it as an adult as I'm looking at it as a gimmick... Though it is Bionicle, after all and I am one of the many who had been wishing so hard for bionicle to come back, but the story is still young and I expect Lego to have something up their sleeves for 2017

[Spiffy247]

I have an idea. Lets listen to Spiffy because he says that we stop saying which is better and enjoy them.

[Kopekemaster]

This reminds me of Homestuck communities honestly. On MSPA's official forums they had to quarantine discussions about Vriska Serket to its own thread and it went on for years. That said though I'm not sure that's the best approach lol. It's irritating to have something so base-breaking that it completely derails every discussion on a forum, but maybe there's something less harsh as trying to corral all discussion into one chaotic place.

I was never really active on the MSPA forums, what were people freaking out over about Vriska? I know she was a pretty polarizing character at some points, but I'm guessing this was something more than that. Just curious lol.

[Arcee]

 

This reminds me of Homestuck communities honestly. On MSPA's official forums they had to quarantine discussions about Vriska Serket to its own thread and it went on for years. That said though I'm not sure that's the best approach lol. It's irritating to have something so base-breaking that it completely derails every discussion on a forum, but maybe there's something less harsh as trying to corral all discussion into one chaotic place.

I was never really active on the MSPA forums, what were people freaking out over about Vriska? I know she was a pretty polarizing character at some points, but I'm guessing this was something more than that. Just curious lol.

 

It was basically that! As a polarizing character central to the storyline, nobody could agree on whether she was a "good guy" or a "bad guy", and from that discussion emerged a lot of more nuanced stuff like "if she's a complex character with good and bad points, were her bad points less severe and/or justified?" or "why do readers hate/love her so passionately?". In fact the thread was still active by the time the forums got shut down a month or two ago. The thing is, the more passionate about Vriska people got, the more dramatic I think their opinions got. Suddenly it was easy to declare that she was a complex character, but Vriska lovers and Vriska h8rs were just really adamant about yelling at each other and often turning it into a personal attack (which I guess makes sense, she was a bully character and most of us have more experience with bullies than we do, like, green skull monsters or whatever, so it is easier to take personally).

 

That's why the G1 vs G2 debate around here really reminds me of the Vriska debate on the MSPA forums (and to a degree the Dave x Karkat debate). I mean, any big fanbase is gonna have polarizing arguments like this... but it's a pretty big debate, IMO, if you can easily end any conversation by saying something like "Vriska Serket is a villain, all of her heroic acts were done out of selfishness" or "Bionicle Gen 2 shouldn't have ever happened, the story puts G1 to shame". One person's opinion (or trolling attempt!) is enough to essentially sabotage the thread starter without some form of moderator intervention.

[ToaTImeLord]

To all the post that say we don't need the topic there both great.

I 100% agree with you.

I just wanted some peace on the website.

Go to a topic on the something simple then BAM argument.

It gets old real fast.

 

I'm glade to see I'm not alone with this opinion.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ToaTimeLord

[hiddenderek]

Yeah we dont need a confrontational title like that, and this topic has already been discussed to death really. 

That being said I'll have my two cents

I like gen 2 better for the sets so far, gen 1 had too many clone sets and i wasnt a fan of the over use of dark, muted colors in the later sets. Also the building system wasn't as coherent as CCBS. Gen 2 has a much more sophisticated building system thats more in the spirit of Lego due to the modular nature of it. Gen 1's building system was more specialized, due to things like dedicated limb and torso pieces. CCBS has those as well in the form of armor shells, but due to the non specialized nature of them they can be used for just about anything and placed anywhere. In my opinion the brighter color schemes and use of transparent parts are far more interesting (although some sets use too much gold or silver but its better than too much metru red or blue to me).  Also the set designs themselves have more variety than most of the gen 1 waves while still having a clear visual theme that unites them all unlike, say, the phantoka Toa. And they integrate functions far better than any of the gen 1 toa sets really. The plastic quality is much better for gen 2 as well. No more rubbery or scratched up pieces. 

 

When it comes to story though gen 1 is much better, gen 2 is your typical toy line tie in story really. But we're only 1.5 years in, that could easily change if it goes on for another 3 or 4 years. Who knows. 

Edited May 7, 2016 by hiddenderek

[Kopekemaster]

 

 

-snip-

-snip-

 

It was basically that! As a polarizing character central to the storyline, nobody could agree on whether she was a "good guy" or a "bad guy", and from that discussion emerged a lot of more nuanced stuff like "if she's a complex character with good and bad points, were her bad points less severe and/or justified?" or "why do readers hate/love her so passionately?". In fact the thread was still active by the time the forums got shut down a month or two ago. The thing is, the more passionate about Vriska people got, the more dramatic I think their opinions got. Suddenly it was easy to declare that she was a complex character, but Vriska lovers and Vriska h8rs were just really adamant about yelling at each other and often turning it into a personal attack (which I guess makes sense, she was a bully character and most of us have more experience with bullies than we do, like, green skull monsters or whatever, so it is easier to take personally).

 

That's why the G1 vs G2 debate around here really reminds me of the Vriska debate on the MSPA forums (and to a degree the Dave x Karkat debate). I mean, any big fanbase is gonna have polarizing arguments like this... but it's a pretty big debate, IMO, if you can easily end any conversation by saying something like "Vriska Serket is a villain, all of her heroic acts were done out of selfishness" or "Bionicle Gen 2 shouldn't have ever happened, the story puts G1 to shame". One person's opinion (or trolling attempt!) is enough to essentially sabotage the thread starter without some form of moderator intervention.

 

Huh, that's funny. Wouldn't have imagined people would get that worked up over her. I would've thought that would be more for Gamzee, since he seemed to be a considerably more emotion- and perception-twisting character. Vriska mostly rubbed off on me mostly as a sort of angsty teen rather than anything else (until towards the end).

 

Sorry for the off-topic discussion, haha.

[-Windrider-]

Would you like me to change the topic title to something more neutral and reflective of this topic's purpose?

[ToaTImeLord]

Would you like me to change the topic title to something more neutral and reflective of this topic's purpose?

that maybe best go for it.

[ToaTImeLord]

Thank you -Windrider-