Bionicle as a brand. Could it survive ?

[TheMegazordman1]

With  G2`s end  there are many questions floating around . But here is a new question for you all .

 

Could Bionicle survive as a brand   along the lines of transformers , marvel, dc, and so on . Not talking about the sets  . The story line alone was the most fleshed out story lego has ever created  . I was just wondering on the thoughts on everyone if  Bionicle could survive as a brand . Not on the same scale  as  transformers or marvel but along the same lines as those brands . 

 

What are your thoughts? 

[Sir Keksalot]

Very easily. Had Lego not repeated the same build again and again after 2006, Bionicle probably WOULD have endured as a cultural mainstay. G2 could have done so if any effort was put into it at all outside of set design.

[MrSciFiGuy]

Yes, and it will again. Just give it 10 years. It's not Lego's priority, and that's fine. Let them try new things and when Bionicle is relaunched it will be with renewed vigor.

[Fry]

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

Edited August 14, 2016 by Jaek_3

[Banana Gunz]

Yes, it most surely can. Bionicle may not have a large or extensive fan base anymore but it has the creative capabilities and the name to make it work. Bionicle doesn't need LEGO if it doesn't want to. Things change and switch mediums, evolve. Bionicle can easily as a story catch on to many kids based on execution.

 

And it is with execution that any brand lives or dies. Sure, there are some brands like Star Wars where it can go several major films without being good, as seen with the prequels. But other IP's don't have that gravity to them, and so they must survive on quality. G2 was a major failure because it damaged the brand and made Bionicle feel cheep and un-different to most other run-of-the-mill stories. If Bionicle is to be fixed it needs to focus on what really makes it special and beloved.

 

I love Mars Mission, it's one of my favorite themes. It had some of the coolest sets ever, but that was not enough to keep them alive. Why? Because its spirit was basic and the sets alone, as good as they were, eventually lose their steam and traction with kids. Bionicle is great as a toy line, it always has been, but it's not enough. Without the story it's brand is nothing, loose and easily forgettable. The story was the only reason it hasn't disappeared, but now disappear it has because of G2's awful story and inability to carry the brand.

 

"Saving" Bionicle, carrying on its brand means more than just bringing it back. Bionicle needs to change and decide on what it really is, rather than try to live up to some none existent precedent it set for itself. Bionicle is not 2001, Bionicle is the best of everything it ever was, and it's time to embrace that.

 

Bionicle was conceived by LEGO, yet in memory people remember it as Bionicle, not LEGO Bionicle. As much as I love LEGO for the most part, it's time to severe that umbilical cord. It's time for it to live, not latch on to its mother like it needs life support. It needs to grow up and evolve and grow into itself. If all it ever does is stay attached then the brand will die without ever having reached its potential.

[Bonkle]

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

[Sumiki]

Saving Bionicle means somehow getting back the immersive mystery and simultaneous simplicity of the early days of G1. If LEGO can do that, then I think G3 is set.

[Takametru007]

If it did come back, it would need to build up a fan base that could compete with other brands. The mistake with G2 is that they didn't lead with a TV show (and Netflix won't cut it- they need specials on Cartoon Network or Nick. That's really where the excitement for Ninjago comes from).

 

So next time, I think they need a fresher start: I'd forget about having the main six as the main Toa, and instead have an all new troupe in a island tribal setting. And this time, really make it like the consumer is the toa, or the villager; they are a participant in this world, having the journey by proxy.

The major villain needs to be established as threatening and menacing from the get go, while still retaining an air of mystique.

 

More world building, and maybe fewer sets: maybe cut the team down to 5, or 4, so the risk is lower. Needs an exploration-type game like MNOG, or some app game that lets you roam the island doing fun stuff and learning about the world.

 

One reason I think G2 failed was because it felt...kiddie. 

Kids actually can deal with mature themes and tales. Not like R-rated stuff, but stuff that's serious. In fact, I think they prefer them: if the story weighs the stakes, and they are heavy, kids feel the gravitas of the situation, and it means something to them.

I feel that was the difference between G1 and G2: maturity.

 

Marketing: G2 had none, it felt like, and the commercials were lame. They didn't let you see the world. It felt generic, and it felt kiddie, and it felt dumb. I wouldn't buy the toys from the commercials if I were a kid.

The trailers in G1 were basically short films in themselves, little snippets of what this world is like...it made you believe they were real, their personas, their lives. Very dramatic and cinematic marketing.

In short, G1 itself was first marketed in the same way you would market a movie- making this world seem cinematic made kids want to buy the toys, either thinking that they were based on a movie, or that a movie was soon to come.

 

Fundamentally, I think kids will always be the same- tomorrows kids at their core will be the same as we were. It's just a matter of knowing: what got us as kids? Why did we like what we did? Figure that, and it's possible BIONICLE can use that to return. 

Reconvincing the retailers? That's another thing...

[Nidhiki of the Shadows]

I think yes, it definitely could. It has the potential to become a main-stay brand.

 

But it can't without being attached to sets. LEGO is a toy company, so unless the rights to the Bionicle name are sold (haha, like that will ever happen), its existence will be infinitely tied to its toyline.

 

-NotS

[Alyska]

It definitely could, but the marketing strategies from around 2006 onwards had a serious case of Ur Doin it Wrong.

 

I'd say there's a hefty "dormant" fandom of people who liked it as a child but grew apart from it, but would be so on board with a theatrical feature film or a well-produced high profile cartoon.It's not quite fair to compare it to Transformers, but a big comeback around the 20 year mark could be hugely successful with old, new and returning fans.

 

Ultimately the success of most brands is defined by the casual fans, not the superfans that hang out for hours each week on fansites- they're a minority. So the key is presenting Bionicle in a way that's accessible to the casual fan, while still providing enough depth to keep the full-time fans engaged. It's something that the 01-03 story did very well, and I'd be keen to see its success repeated.

[Fry]

 

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

 

Well, it was cancelled after two years

[ToaTImeLord]

 

 

 

 

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord.

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

Well, it was cancelled after two years

I think the Set Designers pulled the line to save the line.

Basically making it a bit easier for the big guys to convince sellers later on with G3.

[Bonkle]

 

 

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

 

Well, it was cancelled after two years

 

Seriously, you're just strawmanning at this point. Don't make arguments if you're going to abandon them and bring up another random point.

[Toa of Ice - 1987]

Possibly. Bionicle comnics in g1 was distributed by DC Comics through out the most years although the omics werent sold outside of the lego club magazine.

 

 

That should give us a thought how much of a brand it could become. One big brand that some have mentioned; Transformers has been portrayed marvel in the 90's and later they were published by Dreamwave and IDW comics and countless cartoon studios.

[Pohaturon]

Ninjago is the new Bionicle

 

This phrase gave me forum cancer.

 

Also, I'd love to see a source on that "1000 active fans" bit. 

 

OT: Absolutely. Various franchises that are massive today started off slow and stumbled along the way. Several reboots and cancellations aren't rare these days. I honestly think G3 will be a thing in the future, as regardless of the low(er) sales of G2, Bionicle has written itself into the history of Lego like no other franchise. I mean, sure, trash (sorry, Ninjago fans. I have no issues with you, I'm just passionate) like Ninjago sells well, but it doesn't have the same depth, or weight in terms of influence as Bionicle did and does. With the right devices and approach, in the future Bionicle could be expanded into a semi-adult franchise too, or the story at least.

 

After all, things like Star Wars, DC and Marvel all have massive merchandise industries aimed at children, but you'd argue the core audiences of those franchises are adults. Sure, they didn't originate as children's franchises, and Bionicle did, but in the long run, a similar transition could be made.

 

[Iruini Nuva]

Bionicle as a brand is fine.

 

Once you work in advertising for a few years, you realize how flexible and non-sticky most brands are. Bionicle is light-years ahead of your average CPG. Heck, Lego in general is.

[Sir Keksalot]

 

 

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

 

Well, it was cancelled after two years

 

That was the fault of bad marketing, not anything inherent about Bionicle as a brand. Had it been sold like G1, or even like Ninjago, G2 would not only be alive right now, it would be thriving.

[Fry]

 

Ninjago is the new Bionicle

 

This phrase gave me forum cancer.

 

Also, I'd love to see a source on that "1000 active fans" bit. 

 

OT: Absolutely. Various franchises that are massive today started off slow and stumbled along the way. Several reboots and cancellations aren't rare these days. I honestly think G3 will be a thing in the future, as regardless of the low(er) sales of G2, Bionicle has written itself into the history of Lego like no other franchise. I mean, sure, trash (sorry, Ninjago fans. I have no issues with you, I'm just passionate) like Ninjago sells well, but it doesn't have the same depth, or weight in terms of influence as Bionicle did and does. With the right devices and approach, in the future Bionicle could be expanded into a semi-adult franchise too, or the story at least.

 

After all, things like Star Wars, DC and Marvel all have massive merchandise industries aimed at children, but you'd argue the core audiences of those franchises are adults. Sure, they didn't originate as children's franchises, and Bionicle did, but in the long run, a similar transition could be made.

 

 

I swear to god, you need to calm yourself. Stop looking to get actively triggered by anything and everything I say.

 

Ninjago is the new Bionicle, in that it has:

 

A) a (large) fanbase

B) a tv series

C) several videogames

D) and now a theatrical movie

 

Also, how many active Bionicle fans would you say there are? Enough to warrant at least the three years promised, right? OH! WAIT! Bionicle was cancelled after 2 years! I am not saying that less than 1000 people bought them, only that there are probably less than 1000 active fans.

 

 

 

 

 

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

 

Well, it was cancelled after two years

 

Seriously, you're just strawmanning at this point. Don't make arguments if you're going to abandon them and bring up another random point.

 

How? Lego tried launching Bionicle again, nobody was interested, and it was cancelled after 2 years. How in anyway is that a strawman argument? It only illustrates the lack of interest in the line.

 

Bionicle does not have 1/1000th of the brand name appeal of something like Star Wars, or even Star Trek. The users of BZP/TTV/RRU/BMP does not even come close to the amount of people needed to bring Bionicle up to that level of pop culture.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Jaek_3

[Pohaturon]

 

 

Ninjago is the new Bionicle

 

This phrase gave me forum cancer.

 

Also, I'd love to see a source on that "1000 active fans" bit. 

 

OT: Absolutely. Various franchises that are massive today started off slow and stumbled along the way. Several reboots and cancellations aren't rare these days. I honestly think G3 will be a thing in the future, as regardless of the low(er) sales of G2, Bionicle has written itself into the history of Lego like no other franchise. I mean, sure, trash (sorry, Ninjago fans. I have no issues with you, I'm just passionate) like Ninjago sells well, but it doesn't have the same depth, or weight in terms of influence as Bionicle did and does. With the right devices and approach, in the future Bionicle could be expanded into a semi-adult franchise too, or the story at least.

 

After all, things like Star Wars, DC and Marvel all have massive merchandise industries aimed at children, but you'd argue the core audiences of those franchises are adults. Sure, they didn't originate as children's franchises, and Bionicle did, but in the long run, a similar transition could be made.

 

 

I swear to god, you need to calm yourself. Stop looking to get actively triggered by anything and everything I say.

 

Ninjago is the new Bionicle, in that it has:

 

A) a (large) fanbase

B) a tv series

C) several videogames

D) and now a theatrical movie

 

Also, how many active Bionicle fans would you say there are? Enough to warrant at least the three years promised, right? OH! WAIT! Bionicle was cancelled after 2 years! I am not saying that less than 1000 people bought them, only that there are probably less than 1000 active fans.

 

Wow, you're salty mate. You realize that first part was just a quip regarding my dislike of Ninjago, right?

Aslo, by your equation, Lego Super Heroes was the new Bionicle long before Ninjago, and while Bionicle had three movies, none of them were theatrical.

 

As for your masterful comprehension of statistics, between BZP, BS01 and the TTV boards, plus the statistical minimum of fans not active on either site and the fans active on sites other than the mentioned three, you'll get way way more than a measly 1000 active fans. I sincerely hope even you weren't serious about that, and were merely hyperbolic in that statement to emphasise your overly condescending comment.

 

As for Bionicle's cancellation, both G1 and Hero Factory went on for two years after the decision to axe them due to poor sales was made. If G2 were cancelld only for that reason, it would have lasted until 2018. Obviously popularity wasn't the only factor here, meaning your constantly regurgitated argument of it being axed after 2 years moot.

 

Though I guess all of this is pointless, since lacking any argument, you'll just tell me to grow up or some other assinine hostile response.

 

 

[Bonkle]

 

 

Ninjago is the new Bionicle

 

This phrase gave me forum cancer.

 

Also, I'd love to see a source on that "1000 active fans" bit. 

 

OT: Absolutely. Various franchises that are massive today started off slow and stumbled along the way. Several reboots and cancellations aren't rare these days. I honestly think G3 will be a thing in the future, as regardless of the low(er) sales of G2, Bionicle has written itself into the history of Lego like no other franchise. I mean, sure, trash (sorry, Ninjago fans. I have no issues with you, I'm just passionate) like Ninjago sells well, but it doesn't have the same depth, or weight in terms of influence as Bionicle did and does. With the right devices and approach, in the future Bionicle could be expanded into a semi-adult franchise too, or the story at least.

 

After all, things like Star Wars, DC and Marvel all have massive merchandise industries aimed at children, but you'd argue the core audiences of those franchises are adults. Sure, they didn't originate as children's franchises, and Bionicle did, but in the long run, a similar transition could be made.

 

 

I swear to god, you need to calm yourself. Stop looking to get actively triggered by anything and everything I say.

 

Ninjago is the new Bionicle, in that it has:

 

A) a (large) fanbase

B) a tv series

C) several videogames

D) and now a theatrical movie

 

Also, how many active Bionicle fans would you say there are? Enough to warrant at least the three years promised, right? OH! WAIT! Bionicle was cancelled after 2 years! I am not saying that less than 1000 people bought them, only that there are probably less than 1000 active fans.

 

 

 

 

 

Nope. 1000 active fans (and that's being very generous) cannot support a brand. Also, cutting Bionicle from Lego is like severing a child from their mother's umbilical chord. 

 

Lego won't try again until they have a reason too. And, for now, Ninjago is the new Bionicle. It's getting a movie, right?

You do realize that 1000 fans wouldn't spawn a product line? BZPower is a mere fraction of sales. There are fans on plenty of other sites without accounts here, and many, many children who buy them as well. And there's parents buying them for kids, and people who buy them but just don't like fansites.

 

Seriously, if they thought only roughly a thousand people would buy them they wouldn't even think about it.

 

Well, it was cancelled after two years

 

Seriously, you're just strawmanning at this point. Don't make arguments if you're going to abandon them and bring up another random point.

 

How? Lego tried launching Bionicle again, nobody was interested, and it was cancelled after 2 years. How in anyway is that a strawman argument? It only illustrates the lack of interest in the line.

 

Bionicle does not have 1/1000th of the brand name appeal of something like Star Wars, or even Star Trek. The users of BZP/TTV/RRU/BMP does not even come close to the amount of people needed to bring Bionicle up to that level of pop culture.

 

It is a strawman argument. You made a point regarding a number of fans. I countered it. Instead of countering back, you moved to a different point. We don't know they cancelled it for lack of sales. For all we know they cancelled it because a blue giraffe told them to.

[Lyichir]

I think it potentially could survive in that form. However, I'm skeptical of whether it'd be able to maintain the aspects of the theme that made it so strong in the first place. In my opinion, the Bionicle story has always been at its strongest when the sets provided a solid backbone for it—when the story broke away from that, you generally got mediocre and aimless storytelling like in the online story serials.

 

In any case, I doubt Lego will ever let go of their ownership and management of the Bionicle brand, and they are not in the business of producing stories save for the ones that directly promote their main source of profit, that being the toys. So even if writers could hypothetically manage to create story media that did the theme justice without sets that directly tied in with it, it would never actually happen.

[Irrie]

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again. 

[Sir Keksalot]

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again. 

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

[ToaTImeLord]

 

 

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again.

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

Basically Bionicle was a injured bird.

They took it in before it got bad.

Soon they well release it all healed with jetpacks.

 

Jetpacks=marketing

Edited August 16, 2016 by ToaTimeLord

[Sir Keksalot]

 

 

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again.

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

Basically Bionicle was a injured bird.

They took it in before it got bad.

Soon they well release it all healed with jetpacks.

 

Jetpacks=marketing

 

That's assuming Lego is smart about it, which entails reviving Bionicle again to start with. Then there's the question of whether they'll get a competent team for the line where, for G2, they did not.

[Toa Imrukii]

I think they should just Continue G1 frankly if Bionicle were to come back again. Though be it far in the future from where we left off last, the world would be very different and new otherwise. Glatorian as Proper knights and such. Large Ancient Mechs (Exo-Toa and Boxors). That sort of thing I think would work. But more than likely it wouldn't come to pass in such a way. More than likely it would be a New Universe, but I think if LEGO does what they did originally with BIONICLE, basically taking all the good of both generations, and using them competently I think it would work. Extensive Marketing, Interesting and Unique sets, NOT speeding all of one waves money on Solid Gold Masks, Having a Surreal and Unique story though keep it simple to understand and not branching too deep per se.

 

But then there is the issue of the Retailers not buying the sets out of looking back on the last generation. If this is the case then LEGO has to extensively issue to buy it from them directly in ads and such, at least until retailers see that this theme is successful and start to buy the sets again to sell.

 

Anyway, I think the idea of a Proper Semi-Medieval sort of Post-Industrial world is an awesome idea. Kinetic Magnetically charged Projectile Weapons and Swords and stuff. With Many Varying factions and Ideals. Hmm... That give me an idea... Perhaps I should make an RP off of this idea... Long After the Re-Rise of the Element lords, their downfall and the world rebuilt again after it's aftermath. Suffice to say, would Toa and Matoran still be around? I doubt it, they would probably being sleeping in pods for whatever reason, perhaps due to a past event or something. I dunno, I'm just Brainstorming Wildly here.

[Aanchir]

 

 

 

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again.

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

 

Basically Bionicle was a injured bird.

They took it in before it got bad.

Soon they well release it all healed with jetpacks.

 

Jetpacks=marketing

 

That's assuming Lego is smart about it, which entails reviving Bionicle again to start with. Then there's the question of whether they'll get a competent team for the line where, for G2, they did not.

 

Having been lucky enough to meet many of the people who worked on Bionicle G2, I know that they're definitely competent. Moreover, they're far more qualified to manage an IP like Bionicle than anyone who's posted in this topic, myself included.

 

I'm a bit confused about what is meant by "brand" in the topic title. Yes, like Marvel or Transformers, I get that. But is that supposed to mean without toys as a backbone? Here's the thing… Marvel and Transformers are the successes they are today in large part because of their ability to sell merchandise. Like Bionicle or Ninjago, Transformers has its roots as a toy line, and the storyline was created to promote the toys. Marvel did not originate as toys, but its success with toys is a big factor in why it's as wide-reaching and popular as it is, and why it gets high-profile movie and TV deals. Transformers today has some media like comics that don't exist strictly to promote the current toys. But it was the success of its toy line that allowed it to grow to that point.

 

By comparison, we've actually already seen twice that Bionicle media isn't sustainable without a successful toyline to get people invested in the story. The evidence, in this case, is that each time Bionicle has ended, the book series have been discontinued BEFORE the sets themselves. The final G1 chapter book, Journey's End, was not released in many countries (and even before that, Bionicle had been getting fewer chapter books each year for several years). The final G1 graphic novel, Power of the Great Beings, was cancelled before it was even completed. G2 Bionicle only ended up getting two graphic novels, the last of which came out in April 2016, and three chapter books, the last of which came out in June 2016. There had been plans for a third graphic novel, and a placeholder listing sent out to sites like Amazon, but as far as we can tell it was cancelled before Little, Brown even got as far as assigning a writer to it. Chances are, they wanted to see how much excitement the first books generated before going further, and what they saw failed to impress them.

 

Major publishers are picky and don't want to invest in a franchise unless they think it has the makings of a clear winner. Series that tie in with a successful line of merchandise, a hallmark of a successful series, are therefore subject to a LOT less scrutiny than your run of the mill fantasy adventure storyline with no merchandise angle. It's probably no coincidence that Bionicle G1 got its first tie-in books in 2003, after it had two years of success to show and was about to get its first direct-to-DVD movie released. In fact, the same goes for Hero Factory, which launched in 2010 but didn't get books until 2012.

 

Bionicle G2 is literally the first time a constraction theme has gotten books the same year as it's launched, so there's no doubt publishers had faith in it. I mean, the fact that it got graphic novels from Little, Brown at all says a lot about what high hopes were attached to it, since the other high-profile new IP that year, LEGO Elves, didn't get graphic novels then and neither it nor this year's "big bang" theme, LEGO Nexo Knights, have them now. But those high expectations were evidently not met once the Bionicle G2 books were actually released. And before people blame "lack of promotion" here as they have elsewhere, note that LEGO puts very little effort into promoting the books for any of their IPs, yet their books for IPs like Ninjago, Friends, Legends of Chima, and Elves seem to sell alright regardless.

 

So yeah, it'll take more to convince me that the Bionicle story is strong enough to sell itself without a successful toyline backing it up. So far, evidence suggests that as much as Bionicle fans love the story media, publishers have been slower to gain faith in it — and quicker to LOSE faith in it — than the LEGO Group themselves.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Aanchir

[Banana Gunz]

 

So yeah, it'll take more to convince me that the Bionicle story is strong enough to sell itself without a successful toyline backing it up. So far, evidence suggests that as much as Bionicle fans love the story media, publishers have been slower to gain faith in it — and quicker to LOSE faith in it — than the LEGO Group themselves.

 

 

You speak as if there's no such thing as a story-based IP that doesn't survive on toy sales. It's understandable that selling Bionicle as a story rather than a toy line can be seen as risky, but when you make really good media and sell it the right way, it doesn't need toys.

 

And it's not like books are its only option. There are several other mediums for Bionicle's story to take advantage of and become far more successful. In general, books are not quite the best way to sell kids a story these days. A more visual medium would help far more, and I always found including the Bionicle comics in the LEGO Club Magazine was genius and an excellent way to get people hooked.

 

It's easy to lose faith in a story when it isn't of a certain quality but when you have the right imagination and understand what you're selling, why you're selling it, and how you're selling it, what's not to be confident about selling a story?

 

Again, I understand the argument that selling Bionicle as a story-based theme has a lot of room to fail and not catch on, but only as much as it has room to greatly succeed. Bionicle's history isn't promising, but we're not selling its history, we're selling its future.

 

Perhaps I'm just more hopeful coming from the perspective of a fan. I dunno, maybe Bionicle is dead, maybe only an idiot would ever want to bring it back that way, but I just don't believe in evidence when it comes to what deserves to be brought back. If it's made to work, then it will work.

[Lyichir]

 

 

So yeah, it'll take more to convince me that the Bionicle story is strong enough to sell itself without a successful toyline backing it up. So far, evidence suggests that as much as Bionicle fans love the story media, publishers have been slower to gain faith in it — and quicker to LOSE faith in it — than the LEGO Group themselves.

 

 

You speak as if there's no such thing as a story-based IP that doesn't survive on toy sales. It's understandable that selling Bionicle as a story rather than a toy line can be seen as risky, but when you make really good media and sell it the right way, it doesn't need toys.

 

And it's not like books are its only option. There are several other mediums for Bionicle's story to take advantage of and become far more successful. In general, books are not quite the best way to sell kids a story these days. A more visual medium would help far more, and I always found including the Bionicle comics in the LEGO Club Magazine was genius and an excellent way to get people hooked.

 

It's easy to lose faith in a story when it isn't of a certain quality but when you have the right imagination and understand what you're selling, why you're selling it, and how you're selling it, what's not to be confident about selling a story?

 

Again, I understand the argument that selling Bionicle as a story-based theme has a lot of room to fail and not catch on, but only as much as it has room to greatly succeed. Bionicle's history isn't promising, but we're not selling its history, we're selling its future.

 

Perhaps I'm just more hopeful coming from the perspective of a fan. I dunno, maybe Bionicle is dead, maybe only an idiot would ever want to bring it back that way, but I just don't believe in evidence when it comes to what deserves to be brought back. If it's made to work, then it will work.

 

 

Sure, story-based IPs that don't survive on toy sales exist. They're also much harder to promote and maintain, especially for the kids market. (Case in point: many, many popular kids' TV shows that have been cancelled purely based on a lack of successful merchandising). In fact, I literally can't think of a single example of a kids' series in any medium that continued indefinitely (i.e. featured an ongoing story with regularly released installments) without a massively successful merchandising arm. Maybe indefinite continuation is a ridiculous goal in the first place, but if so, then there's nothing specific that a toy-less Bionicle could deliver that a toy-driven one could not, rendering the point moot.

 

Beyond that, I have to ask—what is the question you're trying to ask in the first place? Are you trying to ask whether a toy-less Bionicle can hypothetically be good, or whether it can realistically be successful? Because if the question is purely hypothetical, then again, there's no point in asking in the first place, since it's equally possibly to imagine a traditional merchandise-driven Bionicle that achieves all the same goals and then some. But if you're actually entertaining hopes for such a thing in reality, there is pretty much no outcome other than disappointment. Because as long as Lego owns Bionicle, they have nothing to gain from relaunching it WITHOUT toys (toys being their main business and what they do best). And unless Lego's fortunes reverse themselves and the company is forced to radically restructure or even sell off classic brands like Bionicle (an outcome I can't believe anyone would legitimately hope for), there's really no chance of that ever changing.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Lyichir

[SirChronicler]

 

 

 

 

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again.

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

 

Basically Bionicle was a injured bird.

They took it in before it got bad.

Soon they well release it all healed with jetpacks.

 

Jetpacks=marketing

 

That's assuming Lego is smart about it, which entails reviving Bionicle again to start with. Then there's the question of whether they'll get a competent team for the line where, for G2, they did not.

 

Having been lucky enough to meet many of the people who worked on Bionicle G2, I know that they're definitely competent. Moreover, they're far more qualified to manage an IP like Bionicle than anyone who's posted in this topic, myself included.

 

But I didn't post in this topic 

 

Oh wait 

 

Bionicle could survive as a brand with the right marketing, and the right story. Not too complicated and not too simple. With decent sets and an awesome story Bionicle could be a successful brand.

[evil_jaga_genius]

Maybe it could survive, maybe it couldn't.  But I can't help but think if it became a huge popular brand, it'd lose some of what made it special on the way.  For now I'm content to wallow in my nostalgia before contemplating any new developments.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I think they should just Continue G1 frankly if Bionicle were to come back again. Though be it far in the future from where we left off last, the world would be very different and new otherwise. Glatorian as Proper knights and such. Large Ancient Mechs (Exo-Toa and Boxors). That sort of thing I think would work. But more than likely it wouldn't come to pass in such a way. More than likely it would be a New Universe, but I think if LEGO does what they did originally with BIONICLE, basically taking all the good of both generations, and using them competently I think it would work. Extensive Marketing, Interesting and Unique sets, NOT speeding all of one waves money on Solid Gold Masks, Having a Surreal and Unique story though keep it simple to understand and not branching too deep per se.

 

But then there is the issue of the Retailers not buying the sets out of looking back on the last generation. If this is the case then LEGO has to extensively issue to buy it from them directly in ads and such, at least until retailers see that this theme is successful and start to buy the sets again to sell.

 

Anyway, I think the idea of a Proper Semi-Medieval sort of Post-Industrial world is an awesome idea. Kinetic Magnetically charged Projectile Weapons and Swords and stuff. With Many Varying factions and Ideals. Hmm... That give me an idea... Perhaps I should make an RP off of this idea... Long After the Re-Rise of the Element lords, their downfall and the world rebuilt again after it's aftermath. Suffice to say, would Toa and Matoran still be around? I doubt it, they would probably being sleeping in pods for whatever reason, perhaps due to a past event or something. I dunno, I'm just Brainstorming Wildly here.

G1 would have too much baggage with the amount of real-time in between G1 and a possible G3. Best not to pull off what Superman Returns tried to do. It would be best just to keep that kind of stuff to our personal endeavors.

[ToaTImeLord]

Just give it two years it will be back.

Let the bird heal.

It will fly again.

[Aanchir]

 

So yeah, it'll take more to convince me that the Bionicle story is strong enough to sell itself without a successful toyline backing it up. So far, evidence suggests that as much as Bionicle fans love the story media, publishers have been slower to gain faith in it — and quicker to LOSE faith in it — than the LEGO Group themselves.

 

You speak as if there's no such thing as a story-based IP that doesn't survive on toy sales. It's understandable that selling Bionicle as a story rather than a toy line can be seen as risky, but when you make really good media and sell it the right way, it doesn't need toys.

 

Nothing I said implies that at all. My point is something entirely different — that non-toy-driven properties are HARDER to sell to publishers than toy-driven ones, and Bionicle has shown multiple times that it's had a harder time getting and keeping the support of publishers than maintaining a successful toyline. So the idea that Bionicle could be MORE successful without toys than with them is completely counterintuitive.

 

And it's not like books are its only option. There are several other mediums for Bionicle's story to take advantage of and become far more successful. In general, books are not quite the best way to sell kids a story these days. A more visual medium would help far more, and I always found including the Bionicle comics in the LEGO Club Magazine was genius and an excellent way to get people hooked.

I agree that Bionicle would be strongest with a visual medium. It doesn't change my point. Comics also need publishers. If you can't convince prose publishers to invest in a franchise, how do you think you'd convince comics publishers, who because of the visual nature of the medium would bear an even heavier financial burden? Note also that I specifically mentioned the publishers of the graphic novels, which WERE visual media, as companies that bailed out on both generations of Bionicle as their popularity waned.

 

It's easy to lose faith in a story when it isn't of a certain quality but when you have the right imagination and understand what you're selling, why you're selling it, and how you're selling it, what's not to be confident about selling a story?

 

Again, I understand the argument that selling Bionicle as a story-based theme has a lot of room to fail and not catch on, but only as much as it has room to greatly succeed. Bionicle's history isn't promising, but we're not selling its history, we're selling its future.

 

Perhaps I'm just more hopeful coming from the perspective of a fan. I dunno, maybe Bionicle is dead, maybe only an idiot would ever want to bring it back that way, but I just don't believe in evidence when it comes to what deserves to be brought back. If it's made to work, then it will work.

I'm not saying that Bionicle couldn't succeed as a brand with the right combination of factors. But I can't think of any reason not having sets would ever make it easier for it to succeed. A story with merchandise tie-ins generally earns more confidence from media publishers and producers, not less. So if media publishers and producers were hesitant to invest in Bionicle media until they'd seen evidence of strong toy sales, and if the popularity of the media declined faster than the popularity of the toys, then you can't pretend the media might have somehow taken off faster or lasted longer in the absence of toys. Frankly, the toys are probably the only reason so many media companies were prepared to give Bionicle a chance in the first place, let alone to stick with it for as long as they did.

[Banana Gunz]

Perhaps my point is better stated not in that a toy-less Bionicle would be better, but rather I feel a larger focus on story rather than toys would overall make the brand better. I probably should've clarified that more. Believe me, I love the Bionicle toys, it's just to me the story is the heart and soul of Bionicle and if its lacking I feel like the brand overall is failing to hold itself up.

 

 

 

 

Beyond that, I have to ask—what is the question you're trying to ask in the first place? Are you trying to ask whether a toy-less Bionicle can hypothetically be good, or whether it can realistically be successful? Because if the question is purely hypothetical, then again, there's no point in asking in the first place, since it's equally possibly to imagine a traditional merchandise-driven Bionicle that achieves all the same goals and then some. But if you're actually entertaining hopes for such a thing in reality, there is pretty much no outcome other than disappointment. Because as long as Lego owns Bionicle, they have nothing to gain from relaunching it WITHOUT toys (toys being their main business and what they do best). And unless Lego's fortunes reverse themselves and the company is forced to radically restructure or even sell off classic brands like Bionicle (an outcome I can't believe anyone would legitimately hope for), there's really no chance of that ever changing.

 

 

Again, not neccessarily toy-less, but rather less reliant on them and more focused on the story to pull fans in.

 

Otherwise though, LEGO has done many surprising things before. Brands and companies are always changing, and they don't have to completely reinvent themselves and everything they do to try something new. If that were the case, LEGO would've switched off completely to constraction at some point, because if they're gonna try something new then of course they have to focus the entire company on it.

 

Realistically or hypothetically? I'm just saying to keep an open mind, and that having a far more story-focused/based theme is not out of reach or impossible.

 

 

I'm not saying that Bionicle couldn't succeed as a brand with the right combination of factors. But I can't think of any reason not having sets would ever make it easier for it to succeed. A story with merchandise tie-ins generally earns more confidence from media publishers and producers, not less. So if media publishers and producers were hesitant to invest in Bionicle media until they'd seen evidence of strong toy sales, and if the popularity of the media declined faster than the popularity of the toys, then you can't pretend the media might have somehow taken off faster or lasted longer in the absence of toys. Frankly, the toys are probably the only reason so many media companies were prepared to give Bionicle a chance in the first place, let alone to stick with it for as long as they did.

 

 

Again, I miscommunicated that I don't feel that sets are bad, but rather having story be a far more central aspect of the themes operation. I would imagine that having an attached fan base and story would only make a toy line more open to getting made and having success.

[Ladon: Lord of Hesperides]

I'm inclined to say it could survive as a brand, though that doesn't necessarily mean it will.

 

Remember all the stuff we had in G1? Movies, comics (that were distributed by DC), novels and a few video games (which admittedly weren't brilliant, but hey, you take what you can get). So yeah, I don't see BIONICLE necessarily becoming as big as Transformers, but it certainly had a presence in enough people's childhoods that I think it could stay as a brand. Whether or not LEGO sees it that way... well, we'll see.

[Sir Keksalot]

 

 

 

 

It's not coming back. If it did as badly as it appears, retailers aren't going to consider purchasing Bionicles from Lego again.

Lego stated on Twitter that Bionicle wasn't doing that poorly, IIRC. The sales were likely simply turning downward, and Lego knew that it would cross the point of no return eventually if they didn't pull the plug.

 

Basically Bionicle was a injured bird.

They took it in before it got bad.

Soon they well release it all healed with jetpacks.

 

Jetpacks=marketing

 

That's assuming Lego is smart about it, which entails reviving Bionicle again to start with. Then there's the question of whether they'll get a competent team for the line where, for G2, they did not.

 

Having been lucky enough to meet many of the people who worked on Bionicle G2, I know that they're definitely competent. Moreover, they're far more qualified to manage an IP like Bionicle than anyone who's posted in this topic, myself included.

To clarify, I mean those responsible for the marketing, which is where G2 failed. They dropped the ball there. I find it hard to believe such persons can truly be said to be competent. They didn't bother to either find out why G1 worked, or to implement that which made it work.

[Shadow Destroyer]

Exactly. A lot of my friends and I pointed out that the marketing was almost nonexistent for G2, and many were not surprised that the line was cancelled, me included. Yes, the team was competent and qualified, but did Lego as a whole take the right direction with this reboot? My opinion is no.

[Umm Durmán]

I was always very positive about Bionicle. I strongly disagreed with the doomsayers and I always said how I love both generations of Bionicle, but after the collapse of Generation 2 on the 30th of July I am very worried. I think that the chances of official Bionicle surviving are very slim. Generation 2 got the go ahead because of how incredibly successful Generation 1 has been in its early and middle years. The problem is that once they will consider Generation 3 (and I think it is inevitable that they will) they won't look at Generation 1 anymore - they will look at Generation 2 because that is the most recent study on the popularity of Bionicle. And since Generation 2 was apparently financially very unsuccessful (I really can't think of any other reason why it would be cancelled this spontaneously and without the slightest preparation) I can't imagine them giving Generation 3 a chance 

 

Now the only possible scenarios where I can imagine a chance for Generation 3 are if it wasn't Bionicle that failed but rather constraction itself. If the upcoming years would prove it (for example if the Rogue One Star Wars constraction did badly too) then perhaps Bionicle would one day have a chance (though I am not holding my breath). The other scenario were Bionicle might one day come back is if LEGO realizes what a horrible job of marketing they did with Generation 2.

 

The media the team made were very good - I liked the games, Journey to One and the online episodes very much, so the problem wasn't that they made bad media, the problem was that they made so few of those media. In the first 3 years of Generation 1 there was so much more marketing despite the fact that the internet was still in its infancy. Other LEGO brands too got far more marketing than Generation 2. The absence of a story driven game hurt Bionicle the most (seriously, how hard would it be to make a story game similar to MNOLG with today's technology).

 

Which brings us to a very sad trend that has seemingly manifested itself - Bionicle is iconic, original and interesting, yet got minimal marketing - the result? - it was a huge unsuccess. Ninjago is uniconic, unoriginal and boring, yet it got absolutely huge marketing - the result? - it is a huge success. I mean this trend, if indeed true and not affected by other, possibly unseen factors, seems to indicate that you could make a potato a bestseller if you gave it enough marketing (LOL, just imagine a line called LEGO Potatoes   ).

 

But I would like to note that despite these two possible Bionicle savers that I mentioned (constraction being what failed or LEGO accepting the harsh truth that they completely failed at marketing) I really think that official Bionicle has minimal chances for surviving. The unsuccess of Generation 2 is simply too much of a catastrophe, a too strong hit to the franchise. I think that LEGO would most probably not want to take the risk after what happened to Generation 2 and would probably just try to create a new original line - or, if it was constraction that failed, it would not make another constraction exclusive line and would keep constraction limited to a secondary presence in primarily system lines, like Star Wars.

 

The fact that to this day LEGO didn't even announce that they plan on replacing Bionicle with another theme seems to indicate that this problem might go all the way to the very foundations of constraction, however it is impossibru to say anything for certain since there is so much we don't know. This tapping in the dark is why I am reluctant to say conclusively that I think official Bionicle will survive or that official Bionicle won't survive, however I do think that the situation of our beloved brand is very serious, disturbing, pessimistic and it worries me greatly 

[Aanchir]

Which brings us to a very sad trend that has seemingly manifested itself - Bionicle is iconic, original and interesting, yet got minimal marketing - the result? - it was a huge unsuccess. Ninjago is uniconic, unoriginal and boring, yet it got absolutely huge marketing - the result? - it is a huge success. I mean this trend, if indeed true and not affected by other, possibly unseen factors, seems to indicate that you could make a potato a bestseller if you gave it enough marketing (LOL, just imagine a line called LEGO Potatoes   ).

I disagree on this for a number of factors. First of all, most Ninjago fans would disagree with you about Ninjago not being iconic, original, or interesting, and with how many Ninjago fans there are I think their opinions on this matter have to be taken into account on some level. It's kind of sketchy to act as though Ninjago fans are just slaves to marketing without any genuinely good taste in toys or storytelling, particularly since there are probably plenty of AFOLs who thought exactly the same thing about Bionicle fans ten years ago. The LEGO Group didn't become as successful as they are by assuming that kids are stupid and have to be told what to enjoy.

 

Second, we've seen LEGO invest heavily in marketing when launching new themes like Hero Factory and Legends of Chima, yet neither of them took off the way Ninjago did (let's not forget, Ninjago launched with a mere 44-minute TV special; whereas Hero Factory launched with an 88-minute miniseries and Chima launched with a full 20-episode TV season). Furthermore, last year we also saw LEGO Elves launch with scarcely any more marketing than Bionicle got, and yet it seems to have had considerably more success, with more sets and media in its second year than in its first. Clearly, that sort of heavy marketing investment isn't any kind of silver bullet. You can't turn a concept that doesn't resonate with kids into a timeless success just by spending more and more money on marketing, whereas a concept that DOES resonate with kids will often be able to prove itself even with a much less extensive marketing campaign than proven themes.