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Sketches from Turaga Beach


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Christian Faber has put together a cool video as a tribute to the fans of Bionicle - you guys! Go watch Sketches from Turaga Beach and read the blog entry that accompanies it. It's awesome to see all of these sketches from the history of Bionicle, some of which I think have never been shared before! If you're a fan of the theme, you owe it to yourself to give it a watch. Thanks so much to Christian Faber for putting this together and helping bring Bionicle into existence in the first place!

 

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Everything that Faber does seems to be amazing.

 

Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Edited by Wazdakka

Steam Name: Toa Hahli Mahri. Xbox Live Gamertag: Makuta. Minecraft Username: ThePoohster.

Wants: 2003 Jaller (from Jaller and Gukko), Exo-Toa, Turaga Nuju, Turaga Vakama, Shadow Kraata, Axonn, Brutaka, Vezon & Fenrakk, Nocturn, ORANGE FIKOU.

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Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Not sure how you get that sense considering the abundance of G2 concept art we've been shown through the NYCC presentation, BrickFair New Jersey presentation, the Facebook page, designer videos, etc. Loads of effort was very clearly put into developing the design and feel of the G2 characters and world. Suggesting otherwise when we've seen so much of that concept and development art, and there's so much more we HAVEN'T seen, is an exercise in self-delusion.

 

Obviously I don't meant that to diminish the importance of the concept art here, particularly since the G2 creators had ten years of precedent to base their concepts on and the G1 creators had to create their concepts from the ground up. And truthfully, a lot of G2 concept and development art began with research into Bionicle's roots and how to reinvent those iconic concepts for a new generation.

 

And of course, it's worth remembering that while Faber did not play a leading role in developing Bionicle G2, he DID play a leading role in developing Hero Factory. And in his own words, "Having worked on both Bionicle and HF from the very beginning I can tell you that the work that went into creating the HF universe was much more deep than the early foundation of Bionicle." Just because Bionicle fans often fail to appreciate the LEGO Group's more recent themes doesn't mean any less work or effort went into developing them.

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Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Not sure how you get that sense considering the abundance of G2 concept art we've been shown through the NYCC presentation, BrickFair New Jersey presentation, the Facebook page, designer videos, etc. Loads of effort was very clearly put into developing the design and feel of the G2 characters and world. Suggesting otherwise when we've seen so much of that concept and development art, and there's so much more we HAVEN'T seen, is an exercise in self-delusion.

 

Obviously I don't meant that to diminish the importance of the concept art here, particularly since the G2 creators had ten years of precedent to base their concepts on and the G1 creators had to create their concepts from the ground up. And truthfully, a lot of G2 concept and development art began with research into Bionicle's roots and how to reinvent those iconic concepts for a new generation.

 

And of course, it's worth remembering that while Faber did not play a leading role in developing Bionicle G2, he DID play a leading role in developing Hero Factory. And in his own words, "Having worked on both Bionicle and HF from the very beginning I can tell you that the work that went into creating the HF universe was much more deep than the early foundation of Bionicle." Just because Bionicle fans often fail to appreciate the LEGO Group's more recent themes doesn't mean any less work or effort went into developing them.

 

While I agree there was a lot of effort but into designing it (though I still consider the execution flawed at best), I think the key thing is the idea of the giant robot was present from the start in G1 as the story's big reveal and unique thing. There was no indication that there was much to G2 beyond what was shown.

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Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Not sure how you get that sense considering the abundance of G2 concept art we've been shown through the NYCC presentation, BrickFair New Jersey presentation, the Facebook page, designer videos, etc. Loads of effort was very clearly put into developing the design and feel of the G2 characters and world. Suggesting otherwise when we've seen so much of that concept and development art, and there's so much more we HAVEN'T seen, is an exercise in self-delusion.

 

Obviously I don't meant that to diminish the importance of the concept art here, particularly since the G2 creators had ten years of precedent to base their concepts on and the G1 creators had to create their concepts from the ground up. And truthfully, a lot of G2 concept and development art began with research into Bionicle's roots and how to reinvent those iconic concepts for a new generation.

 

And of course, it's worth remembering that while Faber did not play a leading role in developing Bionicle G2, he DID play a leading role in developing Hero Factory. And in his own words, "Having worked on both Bionicle and HF from the very beginning I can tell you that the work that went into creating the HF universe was much more deep than the early foundation of Bionicle." Just because Bionicle fans often fail to appreciate the LEGO Group's more recent themes doesn't mean any less work or effort went into developing them.

While I agree there was a lot of effort but into designing it (though I still consider the execution flawed at best), I think the key thing is the idea of the giant robot was present from the start in G1 as the story's big reveal and unique thing. There was no indication that there was much to G2 beyond what was shown.

We learned about the giant robot eight years into the theme's lifespan, and didn't really learn quite how central it had been to the theme's development until years after the theme's end. Heck, Faber only just shared that info about the depth of Hero Factory's early development this past month, two years after that theme ended. What makes you think we'd already know about all the bigger overarching plans for G2 when its second and final year is barely even over?

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Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Not sure how you get that sense considering the abundance of G2 concept art we've been shown through the NYCC presentation, BrickFair New Jersey presentation, the Facebook page, designer videos, etc. Loads of effort was very clearly put into developing the design and feel of the G2 characters and world. Suggesting otherwise when we've seen so much of that concept and development art, and there's so much more we HAVEN'T seen, is an exercise in self-delusion.

 

Obviously I don't meant that to diminish the importance of the concept art here, particularly since the G2 creators had ten years of precedent to base their concepts on and the G1 creators had to create their concepts from the ground up. And truthfully, a lot of G2 concept and development art began with research into Bionicle's roots and how to reinvent those iconic concepts for a new generation.

 

And of course, it's worth remembering that while Faber did not play a leading role in developing Bionicle G2, he DID play a leading role in developing Hero Factory. And in his own words, "Having worked on both Bionicle and HF from the very beginning I can tell you that the work that went into creating the HF universe was much more deep than the early foundation of Bionicle." Just because Bionicle fans often fail to appreciate the LEGO Group's more recent themes doesn't mean any less work or effort went into developing them.

While I agree there was a lot of effort but into designing it (though I still consider the execution flawed at best), I think the key thing is the idea of the giant robot was present from the start in G1 as the story's big reveal and unique thing. There was no indication that there was much to G2 beyond what was shown.

We learned about the giant robot eight years into the theme's lifespan, and didn't really learn quite how central it had been to the theme's development until years after the theme's end. Heck, Faber only just shared that info about the depth of Hero Factory's early development this past month, two years after that theme ended. What makes you think we'd already know about all the bigger overarching plans for G2 when its second and final year is barely even over?

 

 

I mean if it really mattered enough we would've gotten it. All we have is what we got, and whatever promise there might've been it's gone with LEGO pulling the plug on the theme, so it's a bit of a mute argument. For all we know the big overarching plan could've led to nothing and been as much of a let down as the rest of G2's story.

 

G1 had the chance to have ten years to tell its story. G2 didn't, and the thing is you adjust accordingly to make sure you can tell the story you want to with the time you have. Both ended up being cut short, and I guess circumstances being what they were it might've been easier for G1 to compensate, whereas G2 couldn't manage. Either way, G1 was better than G2 not just for its twists, but just because of everything else and how it built its story. Even if G2 had a fuller/better ending than the one we got, I would say it still would pale in comparison on the whole next to the original, and not just because the first had more to time to be better. Time has nothing to do with anything. A 3 hour movie can be worse than a 1 hour one because the shorter was simply made better, and vice versa.

 

It just honestly makes no sense to me to defend G2 for what it could've been because in the end it just wasn't what we got, no matter who's or what's fault it was.

Edited by Banana Gunz
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It just honestly makes no sense to me to defend G2 for what it could've been because in the end it just wasn't what we got, no matter who's or what's fault it was.

You don't have to defend it. But it'd be nice if you and others stopped condemning it for lack of care or effort, when we've seen all kinds of evidence of the hard work people put into developing it. Even if you think the end product was a severe letdown, even if it might never have lived up to G1 in your eyes even if it had continued, can we at least agree that the people making it put forth a solid effort?

Edited by Aanchir
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Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Not sure how you get that sense considering the abundance of G2 concept art we've been shown through the NYCC presentation, BrickFair New Jersey presentation, the Facebook page, designer videos, etc. Loads of effort was very clearly put into developing the design and feel of the G2 characters and world. Suggesting otherwise when we've seen so much of that concept and development art, and there's so much more we HAVEN'T seen, is an exercise in self-delusion.

 

Obviously I don't meant that to diminish the importance of the concept art here, particularly since the G2 creators had ten years of precedent to base their concepts on and the G1 creators had to create their concepts from the ground up. And truthfully, a lot of G2 concept and development art began with research into Bionicle's roots and how to reinvent those iconic concepts for a new generation.

 

And of course, it's worth remembering that while Faber did not play a leading role in developing Bionicle G2, he DID play a leading role in developing Hero Factory. And in his own words, "Having worked on both Bionicle and HF from the very beginning I can tell you that the work that went into creating the HF universe was much more deep than the early foundation of Bionicle." Just because Bionicle fans often fail to appreciate the LEGO Group's more recent themes doesn't mean any less work or effort went into developing them.

While I agree there was a lot of effort but into designing it (though I still consider the execution flawed at best), I think the key thing is the idea of the giant robot was present from the start in G1 as the story's big reveal and unique thing. There was no indication that there was much to G2 beyond what was shown.

We learned about the giant robot eight years into the theme's lifespan, and didn't really learn quite how central it had been to the theme's development until years after the theme's end. Heck, Faber only just shared that info about the depth of Hero Factory's early development this past month, two years after that theme ended. What makes you think we'd already know about all the bigger overarching plans for G2 when its second and final year is barely even over?

 

 

I mean if it really mattered enough we would've gotten it. All we have is what we got, and whatever promise there might've been it's gone with LEGO pulling the plug on the theme, so it's a bit of a mute argument. For all we know the big overarching plan could've led to nothing and been as much of a let down as the rest of G2's story.

 

G1 had the chance to have ten years to tell its story. G2 didn't, and the thing is you adjust accordingly to make sure you can tell the story you want to with the time you have. Both ended up being cut short, and I guess circumstances being what they were it might've been easier for G1 to compensate, whereas G2 couldn't manage. Either way, G1 was better than G2 not just for its twists, but just because of everything else and how it built its story. Even if G2 had a fuller/better ending than the one we got, I would say it still would pale in comparison on the whole next to the original, and not just because the first had more to time to be better. Time has nothing to do with anything. A 3 hour movie can be worse than a 1 hour one because the shorter was simply made better, and vice versa.

 

It just honestly makes no sense to me to defend G2 for what it could've been because in the end it just wasn't what we got, no matter who's or what's fault it was.

 

This isn't about defending G2's overall quality (though I would in fact argue that there are in fact several specific ways in which G2 was superior even if it fell short on the whole). This is about people looking at G1 concept art and saying that it shows how much more effort went into G1 than G2, when in reality we know that a ton of effort went into G2 without even getting into the concepts and ideas that never got a chance to be used. Frankly, the heavy planning that went into Bionicle G1 was a bit of an aberration back in 2001, but these days that kind of intense planning comes STANDARD for pretty much every story theme, including Hero Factory and Bionicle G2. Acting as if G2's failure can be chalked up to any lack of effort is frankly offensive to the people who worked to make it great, not to mention ignorant of the sheer amount of planning done behind the scenes that can take years to see the light of day.

Formerly Lyichir: Rachira of Influence

Aanchir's and Meiko's brother

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It just honestly makes no sense to me to defend G2 for what it could've been because in the end it just wasn't what we got, no matter who's or what's fault it was.

You don't have to defend it. But it'd be nice if you and others stopped condemning it for lack of care or effort, when we've seen all kinds of evidence of the hard work people put into developing it. Even if you think the end product was a severe letdown, even if it might never have lived up to G1 in your eyes even if it had continued, can we at least agree that the people making it put forth a solid effort?

 

 

This isn't about defending G2's overall quality (though I would in fact argue that there are in fact several specific ways in which G2 was superior even if it fell short on the whole). This is about people looking at G1 concept art and saying that it shows how much more effort went into G1 than G2, when in reality we know that a ton of effort went into G2 without even getting into the concepts and ideas that never got a chance to be used. Frankly, the heavy planning that went into Bionicle G1 was a bit of an aberration back in 2001, but these days that kind of intense planning comes STANDARD for pretty much every story theme, including Hero Factory and Bionicle G2. Acting as if G2's failure can be chalked up to any lack of effort is frankly offensive to the people who worked to make it great, not to mention ignorant of the sheer amount of planning done behind the scenes that can take years to see the light of day.

 

 

 

???

 

I never said anything at all about the people who worked on G2 in that they didn't work hard on the theme or care about it. I never said anything about their talents, abilities, or suitability to work on the project. No offense, but it feels like you guys are putting words in my mouth as an excuse for why I or many others didn't like G2.

 

When a proper critic judges a film, they judge it honestly and fairly. Just because it gets a negative review doesn't mean that the director or writer was bad, or that anyone working on the sets and special effects aren't talented. It just means the film ended up bad. It can happen for any number of reasons. Maybe they're bad at their job, but in this particular case, it's not entirely them.

 

Look at Journey to One; I think the animation in that show was bad, not atrocious, but the style didn't look right and there were moment like pheonix Tahu riding in at the beginning of one of the episodes that just looked awful. It did not show the talents of Volta as animators in my opinion, but you know what happened? Some time later they released that beautiful video thingy with amazingly rendered models of the toa with beautiful effects.

 

I think the team at Volta is amazing after seeing that. Every team and individual has their strengths and weaknesses, and I'm not saying the team that worked on G2 was bad at what they do. What I'm saying is that G2 was bad. An artist is not equal to their work, especially if it's a group effort.

 

G2 was awful because it missed the point of Bionicle. It was shallow and uninteresting. And yes Lyichir, I agree, there are some things it did better than G1, but they are so few and this is a discussion about the two generations' quality overall, and it's upsetting that some might see me as ignorant enough to believe there is only ever something awful about it. I have expressed multiple times things that I liked about G2.

 

But structurally the team just did not do a good job. I wouldn't want to say that to their faces as much as the next guy, but I do believe that. I don't believe that they're not talented, but I do think they didn't fully understand Bionicle, or that if they did then whatever infinite amount of things that can go wrong did. It could've been corporate LEGO that turned G2 into a husk of what it could've been.

 

But whatever happened, I don't believe they did not have the freedom to make it better. They had the budget for several real gold masks, so money wasn't an issue. In fact, a presence at NYCC and the online media marketing I feel was actually brilliant.

 

But story-wise they tried to replicate that sweet nostalgic spot that was 2001, except they could never do that because, again, nostalgia- but also because that's not what Bionicle was. Bionicle in reality (I've said this a million times and I'll say it a million times more) and not just in our memories is 2001-2010. Every moment, every year of it was real and made Bionicle what it was.

 

Look at the Rakhshi, the Bohrok, the Piraka, the Barraki. None of these species'/villains were the same. They were and still are unlike anything I've ever seen before and are original and part of the spirit of what Bionicle was. What did G2 have? Skull spiders? Skull warriors? Beasts?

 

I mean seriously you cannot lie to me and tell me those don't sound silly. They're ridiculous, and unoriginal.

 

I mean what I say when I say G2 was unoriginal and uninspired. And whether or not that's the fault of the designers, story-tellers, or anyone on the team, I will not stay quiet about it and pretend it's not true just because I don't wanna hurt their feeling. That is not constructive criticism, and in the real world people are critical, and it's up to you not to take personal offense to it just because someone didn't like something you made.

 

I'm a writer, artist, and overall creator. Believe me, I KNOW what it feels like to have people hate what you make. It feels like garbage. I went to a specialized high school for art, and people were brutally honest there. But you know what we do? We get up, learn from our mistakes and use our individual and unique talents to keep going forward.

 

And is that not what Bionicle is about? I'm plenty sure the team behind G2 is amazingly talented, and probably way better at plenty of things than I could ever hope to be, but they missed the point. Just from their attitudes in the videos, they seem to have not understood what Bionicle was about, and what I can't comprehend is why we have to then pay the price for that!

 

We the fans have been waiting for Bionicle and stayed loyal to it, so yes, of course I'm going to be upset when it ends up a bloody train wreck that doesn't even last three years. And of course I'm going to be critical of it because of that. Their planning probably was amazing (as amazing as the concept art) and probably told a whole other amazing story, but that's not the one we got, and not the one I can judge. Aesthetically they knew what they were doing, but story and theme wise I just don't think they understood.

 

But what peeves me is that suddenly I'm just assumed to be a blind and stupid hater because I'm honest. I don't hate the team, or think they're bad. In fact, if they were here in front of me right now, I'd be thanking the ###### out of them just for bringing back Bionicle, just for bringing that extra bit of hope for a moment and making an amazing moment where I felt happy to see a bit of my childhood come back, but that does not diminish the reality that they may have well destroyed the brand for what we know.

 

Sorry if I sound angry, it's just been a rough day and I don't like it when people assume something I've said, when it's not at all the point I'm trying to make. I may be negative, but I'm trying to be realistic and intelligent with what I point out.

Edited by Banana Gunz
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???

 

I never said anything at all about the people who worked on G2 in that they didn't work hard on the theme or care about it. I never said anything about their talents, abilities, or suitability to work on the project. No offense, but it feels like you guys are putting words in my mouth as an excuse for why I or many others didn't like G2.

Your exact words were "Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot." That's what I was replying to. YOUR implication that there was a lack of effort. How can you sit there and accuse me of putting words in your mouth when all I'm doing is responding to the exact words of your post?

 

Look at the Rakhshi, the Bohrok, the Piraka, the Barraki. None of these species'/villains were the same. They were and still are unlike anything I've ever seen before and are original and part of the spirit of what Bionicle was. What did G2 have? Skull spiders? Skull warriors? Beasts?

 

I mean seriously you cannot lie to me and tell me those don't sound silly. They're ridiculous, and unoriginal.

To me they just sound sensible, not silly. There's no need to make up a contrived-sounding word like "Skulverzahk" or whatever when you can just call things what they are. Mashing syllables together doesn't automatically make things sound more clever. Besides, to me, "Shadow Horde" sounds just as epic as a made-up word like "Rahkshi" ever could.

 

It's not that having a lexicon is always bad. It can be, in excess. But this type of alien jargon is certainly not a necessary part of creating a an epic and legendary story. I've never known ANY story that ended up alienating me or my friends and family by using real words, but I have witnessed firsthand how storytelling can stumble into alienating or cringeworthy territory by using fantasy names for everything, whether or not it enhanced the story.

 

But what peeves me is that suddenly I'm just assumed to be a blind and stupid hater because I'm honest. I don't hate the team, or think they're bad. In fact, if they were here in front of me right now, I'd be thanking the ###### out of them just for bringing back Bionicle, just for bringing that extra bit of hope for a moment and making an amazing moment where I felt happy to see a bit of my childhood come back, but that does not diminish the reality that they may have well destroyed the brand for what we know.

I don't think you're blind, stupid, or a hater. I do think you were quite careless with your words if you can blame Bionicle G2's faults on lack of effort, and then a day later claim you never said the people making it didn't try hard. I don't particularly care if you dislike Bionicle G2, but don't blame it on a lack of effort if you don't genuinely believe it was a lack of effort, and don't get mad at me for assuming what you said was what you meant.

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Your exact words were "Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot." That's what I was replying to. YOUR implication that there was a lack of effort. How can you sit there and accuse me of putting words in your mouth when all I'm doing is responding to the exact words of your post?

 

 

What I had meant by half-hearted was that there wasn't any real heart to G2. Not that their efforts were any less, but that it was lacking the spirit and understanding of what Bionicle is about. A reboot can be half-hearted even if the effort is not, because it's one thing to put work into something, but another to put the care and understanding into it necessary to make it feel alive and real. Again, that's not anything on the people working on it themselves. Yes, you took the words out of my post but without any real understanding of what they mean or what I'm trying to say.

 

 

Look at the Rakhshi, the Bohrok, the Piraka, the Barraki. None of these species'/villains were the same. They were and still are unlike anything I've ever seen before and are original and part of the spirit of what Bionicle was. What did G2 have? Skull spiders? Skull warriors? Beasts?

 

I mean seriously you cannot lie to me and tell me those don't sound silly. They're ridiculous, and unoriginal.

To me they just sound sensible, not silly. There's no need to make up a contrived-sounding word like "Skulverzahk" or whatever when you can just call things what they are. Mashing syllables together doesn't automatically make things sound more clever. Besides, to me, "Shadow Horde" sounds just as epic as a made-up word like "Rahkshi" ever could.

 

It's not that having a lexicon is always bad. It can be, in excess. But this type of alien jargon is certainly not a necessary part of creating a an epic and legendary story. I've never known ANY story that ended up alienating me or my friends and family by using real words, but I have witnessed firsthand how storytelling can stumble into alienating or cringeworthy territory by using fantasy names for everything, whether or not it enhanced the story.

 

 

I completely disagree with you here. It's not just about superficial names, it's about so much more. The rahkshi could well have been called the "slug men" for all I care. When you look at them design-wise and conceptually they're unlike anything there was. The bohrok took the idea of a hive mind and made it appropriate to the theme by using a method of parasitic brain masks rather than any other common and easy way of doing it. It was approriate to the story and they made them insectoid without going straight into "oh! Just give them a bunch of legs, big eyes, and a thorax!" They took a more unique route and instead made them feel beetle-like and stout, expanding instead on the transformative aspects of insects.

 

The shadow horde doesn't mean anything. Neither do skull warriors or skull spiders. It's ham handed and they just took the first things that popped into their minds as to what's scary for their villains. Their villains have no finesse, character or anything to make them real. To make a threatening villain you have to go deeper into what makes people feel threatened, as well as give them motive. Here it's just slave armies because it's convenient for the plot. Umarak is the only one design wise that I feel is successful, but even so he's barely even a character because he's so one-note and useless. G2 would never have a Krika or Zaktan, it hasn't got the stuff to be that interesting.

 

And your argument doesn't hold even if you're simply going off of the names. Shadow horde is fine, but it's more than just about the words, it's about the sounds. Rakhshi sounds sharp and quick when you say it, reflecting the beasts' nature. Same with bohrok, which sounds stockier and heavy, just like they are. Skull warriors just sounds ridiculous in comparison when you see it accomplishes nothing as a title (Sure, G1 often overdid it a little though, choosing to give elaborate names to each individual rakhshi, bohrok, vahki, etc. which was unnecessary, but my point still holds). Names are important, not just in what they're reflecting but how they do it.

 

I don't think you're blind, stupid, or a hater. I do think you were quite careless with your words if you can blame Bionicle G2's faults on lack of effort, and then a day later claim you never said the people making it didn't try hard. I don't particularly care if you dislike Bionicle G2, but don't blame it on a lack of effort if you don't genuinely believe it was a lack of effort, and don't get mad at me for assuming what you said was what you meant.

 

 

Again, I choose my words carefully. I don't believe it was a lack of effort or talent, but it was a lack of heart and soul. I'm sure they cared about what they were doing, but not on the level where they understood exactly what they were caring about and why. I know what I'm saying, I don't just dump words out of my mouth. Without focus or reason, there is no reason to speak, which is exactly how I feel about G2. Rebuttle?

Edited by Banana Gunz
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To me they just sound sensible, not silly. There's no need to make up a contrived-sounding word like "Skulverzahk" or whatever when you can just call things what they are. Mashing syllables together doesn't automatically make things sound more clever. Besides, to me, "Shadow Horde" sounds just as epic as a made-up word like "Rahkshi" ever could.

 

It's not that having a lexicon is always bad. It can be, in excess. But this type of alien jargon is certainly not a necessary part of creating a an epic and legendary story. I've never known ANY story that ended up alienating me or my friends and family by using real words, but I have witnessed firsthand how storytelling can stumble into alienating or cringeworthy territory by using fantasy names for everything, whether or not it enhanced the story.

 

 

This is something that's always been interesting to me. In the early years, keeping up with the names was pretty easy because they all originated from a select few languages, Maori with a bit of Finnish sprinkled around, so you heard a lot of similar sounds in many of the names. They had a sort of consistency and rhythm, the way the languages in Tolkien's works do. Just like elf names sound soft and sweet, dwarf names sound bombastic and musical, and orc names sound gutteral and harsh, making them all fairly distinct and easier to remember than a lot of languages and names in other fantasy worlds are, the "language" of Bionicle felt (or rather, was) real and distinct enough that if you could remember one name, you could remember a lot of similar names of the Matoran villagers and stuff. It was a tightly knit little language that worked. You knew that "nui" meant something important because it appeared in several names. Vakama and Nokama were easy to remember because you could tell they were of the same tongue. Kopaka and Kopeke (pronounced Koh-peek) have completely different sounds but are easy to remember because they're spelled similarly. It's like a sort of poetry.

 

Then it got out of hand. Sure, a few of the names were probably made up from the beginning, but in the later years, they started pulling lots of names out of their butts. Names like "Miserix" or Destral felt like made up fantasy names, and the "language"  of Bionicle just got less coherent and felt more of a mish mash of several at least partially fictional languages. Consistency was thrown out the window, making the names that much harder for kids (and their parents) to remember.

 

In 2009, they tried to recapture that early feel by narrowing their focus to one language and making Bara Magna's language derivative of latin, which I've sort of tried to continue with many of the names in my story, so good on them for finding that kind of restraint and consistency again. Not sure where I'm going with this. It's just something I've thought about more than once, because I love the "art" of language. When I heard the Protectors' names... it took me a while to latch onto them, because they didn't feel very consistent to me. They reminded me of that period in G1 where, as we've established, things got out of control. I've had a much easier time remembering the Creatures' names because they're short, simple to say, and sound like they all come from a select few languages, possibly one.

 

Consistency is key.

Edited by NickonAquaMagna

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The Toa- A Bionicle Retelling by NickonAquaMagna http://www.bzpower.com/board/topic/25275-the-toa-a-retelling-of-bionicle/

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Your exact words were "Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot." That's what I was replying to. YOUR implication that there was a lack of effort. How can you sit there and accuse me of putting words in your mouth when all I'm doing is responding to the exact words of your post?

 

What I had meant by half-hearted was that there wasn't any real heart to G2. Not that their efforts were any less, but that it was lacking the spirit and understanding of what Bionicle is about. A reboot can be half-hearted even if the effort is not, because it's one thing to put work into something, but another to put the care and understanding into it necessary to make it feel alive and real. Again, that's not anything on the people working on it themselves. Yes, you took the words out of my post but without any real understanding of what they mean or what I'm trying to say.

 

You seem to be missing my point. I didn't take issue with you calling the reboot half-hearted, even though I disagree. Rather, I took issue with you saying that this video showed how much more effort went into G1 than G2. Those were your exact words: more effort. And frankly, even if there was more effort in G1 than G2, this video doesn't show it. What this video showed was a brilliant portfolio of G1 concept work, but we've seen just as much concept art per year of G2 as this video shows per year of G1.

 

While I have immense respect for Christian Faber's creative vision and how it enriched the core concepts of Bionicle, we've seen nothing to suggest that the Bionicle G2 concept artists put any less effort into their work than Christian Faber and his colleagues put into these samples. You seem to want to agree on this, and yet you don't seem to realize that your earlier comment said exactly the opposite.

 

People can argue about the effectiveness of any creative work all day and all night, but it's when people start insinuating that a lack of effectiveness means creators didn't make enough of an effort that I get particularly bothered. And this is not me putting words into your mouth: you're the one who turned a discussion of an amazing video by a G1 concept artist into an indictment of his successors' efforts.

Edited by Aanchir
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You seem to be missing my point. I didn't take issue with you calling the reboot half-hearted, even though I disagree. Rather, I took issue with you saying that this video showed how much more effort went into G1 than G2. Those were your exact words: more effort. And frankly, even if there was more effort in G1 than G2, this video doesn't show it. What this video showed was a brilliant portfolio of G1 concept work, but we've seen just as much concept art per year of G2 as this video shows per year of G1.

 

While I have immense respect for Christian Faber's creative vision and how it enriched the core concepts of Bionicle, we've seen nothing to suggest that the Bionicle G2 concept artists put any less effort into their work than Christian Faber and his colleagues put into these samples. You seem to want to agree on this, and yet you don't seem to realize that your earlier comment said exactly the opposite.

 

People can argue about the effectiveness of any creative work all day and all night, but it's when people start insinuating that a lack of effectiveness means creators didn't make enough of an effort that I get particularly bothered. And this is not me putting words into your mouth: you're the one who turned a discussion of an amazing video by a G1 concept artist into an indictment of his successors' efforts.

 

 

Go back and re-read my initial post, I didn't make a single comment whatsoever about the concept art or "how much more work went into G1 than G2". I have continually hammered in my point that it's not that the teams of one worked harder than the other, but that they didn't truly understand the concept of Bionicle.

 

I'm not sure if you even reading the same posts I wrote, because I never even mentioned the video either. I have consistently given a qualified argument about how one can put a lot of work and effort into something, and still not have the understanding to make a full hearted product.

 

My main point, the first thing I posted about here was that we can't judge a product based on the concept art we've seen of it or what what we never got for the theme. A story should be successful enough to tell the story it wants in the medium and time it has. That was all I said.

 

Again, it feels like you're putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions based on things I've never said or even implied. I agree that they probably put a lot of work into the theme, and when going back and re-reading all of my posts there is nothing I ever said to imply the opposite.

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You seem to be missing my point. I didn't take issue with you calling the reboot half-hearted, even though I disagree. Rather, I took issue with you saying that this video showed how much more effort went into G1 than G2. Those were your exact words: more effort. And frankly, even if there was more effort in G1 than G2, this video doesn't show it. What this video showed was a brilliant portfolio of G1 concept work, but we've seen just as much concept art per year of G2 as this video shows per year of G1.

 

While I have immense respect for Christian Faber's creative vision and how it enriched the core concepts of Bionicle, we've seen nothing to suggest that the Bionicle G2 concept artists put any less effort into their work than Christian Faber and his colleagues put into these samples. You seem to want to agree on this, and yet you don't seem to realize that your earlier comment said exactly the opposite.

 

People can argue about the effectiveness of any creative work all day and all night, but it's when people start insinuating that a lack of effectiveness means creators didn't make enough of an effort that I get particularly bothered. And this is not me putting words into your mouth: you're the one who turned a discussion of an amazing video by a G1 concept artist into an indictment of his successors' efforts.

 

Go back and re-read my initial post, I didn't make a single comment whatsoever about the concept art or "how much more work went into G1 than G2". I have continually hammered in my point that it's not that the teams of one worked harder than the other, but that they didn't truly understand the concept of Bionicle.

 

I'm not sure if you even reading the same posts I wrote, because I never even mentioned the video either. I have consistently given a qualified argument about how one can put a lot of work and effort into something, and still not have the understanding to make a full hearted product.

 

My main point, the first thing I posted about here was that we can't judge a product based on the concept art we've seen of it or what what we never got for the theme. A story should be successful enough to tell the story it wants in the medium and time it has. That was all I said.

 

Again, it feels like you're putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions based on things I've never said or even implied. I agree that they probably put a lot of work into the theme, and when going back and re-reading all of my posts there is nothing I ever said to imply the opposite.

 

My apologies. I finally figured out what happened: I mistook Wazdakka's original post (the one that started this whole mess of a thread) with one of yours. He's the one who asserted that there was a lack of effort, not you — you just joined in partway through without me realizing that you were a newcomer to the conversation. It was complicated for me to keep track of who was who because up until around 6:00 yesterday evening I was browsing on my phone, which made it harder to scroll through previous posts as I was replying. Still, the fault for this confusion, and my subsequent misplaced frustration, is entirely on me. Please disregard my previous replies to you, and I hope you can forgive me for getting mixed up in this way. :(

Edited by Aanchir
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You seem to be missing my point. I didn't take issue with you calling the reboot half-hearted, even though I disagree. Rather, I took issue with you saying that this video showed how much more effort went into G1 than G2. Those were your exact words: more effort. And frankly, even if there was more effort in G1 than G2, this video doesn't show it. What this video showed was a brilliant portfolio of G1 concept work, but we've seen just as much concept art per year of G2 as this video shows per year of G1.

 

While I have immense respect for Christian Faber's creative vision and how it enriched the core concepts of Bionicle, we've seen nothing to suggest that the Bionicle G2 concept artists put any less effort into their work than Christian Faber and his colleagues put into these samples. You seem to want to agree on this, and yet you don't seem to realize that your earlier comment said exactly the opposite.

 

People can argue about the effectiveness of any creative work all day and all night, but it's when people start insinuating that a lack of effectiveness means creators didn't make enough of an effort that I get particularly bothered. And this is not me putting words into your mouth: you're the one who turned a discussion of an amazing video by a G1 concept artist into an indictment of his successors' efforts.

 

Go back and re-read my initial post, I didn't make a single comment whatsoever about the concept art or "how much more work went into G1 than G2". I have continually hammered in my point that it's not that the teams of one worked harder than the other, but that they didn't truly understand the concept of Bionicle.

 

I'm not sure if you even reading the same posts I wrote, because I never even mentioned the video either. I have consistently given a qualified argument about how one can put a lot of work and effort into something, and still not have the understanding to make a full hearted product.

 

My main point, the first thing I posted about here was that we can't judge a product based on the concept art we've seen of it or what what we never got for the theme. A story should be successful enough to tell the story it wants in the medium and time it has. That was all I said.

 

Again, it feels like you're putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions based on things I've never said or even implied. I agree that they probably put a lot of work into the theme, and when going back and re-reading all of my posts there is nothing I ever said to imply the opposite.

 

My apologies. I finally figured out what happened: I mistook Wazdakka's original post (the one that started this whole mess of a thread) with one of yours. He's the one who asserted that there was a lack of effort, not you — you just joined in partway through without me realizing that you were a newcomer to the conversation. It was complicated for me to keep track of who was who because up until around 6:00 yesterday evening I was browsing on my phone, which made it harder to scroll through previous posts as I was replying. Still, the fault for this confusion, and my subsequent misplaced frustration, is entirely on me. Please disregard my previous replies to you, and I hope you can forgive me for getting mixed up in this way. :(

 

 

LOL dude it's completely no problem! I have a ton of respect for you and your brother and I'm just glad this got cleared up. People often get the impression that arguments are a bad thing but to me they're a wonderful way of discussing and reaching conclusions when respectful. I'm just glad that I got to talk to someone cool about Bionicle for once! :)

Edited by Banana Gunz
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Sadly, this video also goes to show how much more effort went into the original Bionicle than the half-hearted reboot.

Not sure how you get that sense considering the abundance of G2 concept art we've been shown through the NYCC presentation, BrickFair New Jersey presentation, the Facebook page, designer videos, etc. Loads of effort was very clearly put into developing the design and feel of the G2 characters and world. Suggesting otherwise when we've seen so much of that concept and development art, and there's so much more we HAVEN'T seen, is an exercise in self-delusion.

 

Obviously I don't meant that to diminish the importance of the concept art here, particularly since the G2 creators had ten years of precedent to base their concepts on and the G1 creators had to create their concepts from the ground up. And truthfully, a lot of G2 concept and development art began with research into Bionicle's roots and how to reinvent those iconic concepts for a new generation.

 

And of course, it's worth remembering that while Faber did not play a leading role in developing Bionicle G2, he DID play a leading role in developing Hero Factory. And in his own words, "Having worked on both Bionicle and HF from the very beginning I can tell you that the work that went into creating the HF universe was much more deep than the early foundation of Bionicle." Just because Bionicle fans often fail to appreciate the LEGO Group's more recent themes doesn't mean any less work or effort went into developing them.

While I agree there was a lot of effort but into designing it (though I still consider the execution flawed at best), I think the key thing is the idea of the giant robot was present from the start in G1 as the story's big reveal and unique thing. There was no indication that there was much to G2 beyond what was shown.

We learned about the giant robot eight years into the theme's lifespan, and didn't really learn quite how central it had been to the theme's development until years after the theme's end. Heck, Faber only just shared that info about the depth of Hero Factory's early development this past month, two years after that theme ended. What makes you think we'd already know about all the bigger overarching plans for G2 when its second and final year is barely even over?

 

We didn't know about the reveal, but the foreshadowing was clearly there. Mata Nui literally means Great Face. With G2 the only thing that was foreshadowed was the Mask of Time, which ended up having an immediate payout. With Okoto everything we saw we learned about immediately. The Skull villains being pirates is the closest thing to interesting lore that I can point out wasn't quite what it seemed and even then that excludes the Scorpios and Slicer and isn't that great an example.

 

 

 

 

On side note, I had downloaded the original video on the day it was posted. I posted a link on the new video. I can also PM the link should the comment be removed.

Edited by Toa of Gallifrey
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Why was the original video removed? Has there been any official clarification?

 

Regarding the old Bionicle and the new... my observations lead me to conclude that the original Bionicle clearly contained the superior lore and accompanying world. Where the truly legitimate debate lies is with the set aesthetics. :)

                 pirate wreck  

 

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