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I got some questions for you terrible lovely people. First, how did the secondary elements (Plasma, Gravity, etc.) come to be canonized? Second, what other elements are possible (not necessarily canon) in G1 Bionicle? Like, I'm thinking magma or something.

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I got some questions for you terrible lovely people. First, how did the secondary elements (Plasma, Gravity, etc.) come to be canonized? Second, what other elements are possible (not necessarily canon) in G1 Bionicle? Like, I'm thinking magma or something.

 

they first showed up with the bohrak kal (pardoning vacuum which was never a toa element, and plantlife/psion, which were never bohrok elements), then i guess they became toa elements, but greg like, i think said "oh they're rare because lego will never make sets of these some evil guy killed most of them idk."

 

bionicle canon is silly and confusing, it is often best not to think too hard.

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Well, for starters, most of them were present in the Bohrok-kal. All of them introduced a secondary element, except for Levahk-Kal, which gave us Vacuum.

 

The others, like Plant Life and Iron, were introduced as wild Rahkshi powers, and thus, Makuta powers. From there, Toa and Matoran representing these "natural forces" were written into the story.

 

EDIT: Kapura'd by RL. 

To correct one of RL's statements, the Toa of Iron and Magnetism were hunted nearly to extinction because of the threat they posed to the Makuta, who had evolved into gaseous beings held together solely by their protosteel armor. Toa that could control metal with a wave of their hand could destroy a Makuta's armor easily, exposing their essence to the elements and depriving them of all but their most basic mental powers.

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I had always wanted crystal as an element until psionics was canonized, after which I have been staunchly opposed to the idea of so many elements.  The idea of having psionics—literal mental processes—as something wieldable by a Toa as an elemental power alongside actual physical things like stone and fire and air and iron struck me as entirely absurd, and shortly after its canonization there was a push for making inertia an element, which thankfully was never made real.
 
I get plasma, and even gravity to an extent, although in hindsight gravity makes only a tiny bit more sense than psionics.

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I had always wanted crystal as an element until psionics was canonized, after which I have been staunchly opposed to the idea of so many elements.  The idea of having psionics—literal mental processes—as something wieldable by a Toa as an elemental power alongside actual physical things like stone and fire and air and iron struck me as entirely absurd, and shortly after its canonization there was a push for making inertia an element, which thankfully was never made real.

 

I get plasma, and even gravity to an extent, although in hindsight gravity makes only a tiny bit more sense than psionics.

 

yaaa, this too! psion toa have access to powers like mind reading and suggestion which if you didn't know were also, fancy that, kanohi powers! feel a little redundant yet? no other element does this (excusing the kanohi garai but that mask is a questionable mess as is) alongside the mentioned "isn't really a natural thing?? thing and it is kinda out of place.

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I had always wanted crystal as an element until psionics was canonized, after which I have been staunchly opposed to the idea of so many elements.  The idea of having psionics—literal mental processes—as something wieldable by a Toa as an elemental power alongside actual physical things like stone and fire and air and iron struck me as entirely absurd, and shortly after its canonization there was a push for making inertia an element, which thankfully was never made real.

 

I get plasma, and even gravity to an extent, although in hindsight gravity makes only a tiny bit more sense than psionics.

The Great Beings were probably just huge nerds sitting around talking about what would be cool.

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I mean, people were already a tad pissy from the get go because they argued that stone = earth and water = ice, but Lego rolled with it anyway. Then we got a ton of new elements down the line because rule of cool (with which I personally have no issue). Then there was that whole thing with the glatorian/agori elements not being the same as the GSR elements (rock, sand, jungle...) so the whole thing was getting pretty convoluted.

 

I personally would have liked to see Pressure as an element, since Vacuum became a bohrok-kal exclusive thing. Iron really should have just been "metal", and I would have loved to see a magical/arcane element called something like "ether" or whatnot which basically made the Toa a wizard. Pointy-hat-mask would have been a necessity.

 

:kakama:

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:kakama: Stone rocks :kakama:

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If you're looking for specific instances of where we see Toa of these extra Elements, you'll need to read the books and serials. For example, the first we heard of Lightning and Iron was as members of Lesovikk's team in one of his flashbacks. I believe Plasma, Plantlife, and Gravity were all from unnamed Toa in BIONICLE: Legends books, and obviously Krakua and Jovan gave us Sonics and Magnetism. Psionics was one of the latest, first appearing in one of the unfinished serials after it had been officially canonized by request. (Unless the Stasis Toa contest was first... my memory might be hazy.)

 

The inspiration for many of these Elements did come from the Bohrok-Kal; Vacuum was the only power not to be officially canonized. There was also one new Bohrok power, Acid, that was never canonized as a Toa Element. At times, these have been referred to as non-Toa Elements, both by the fans and by Greg, but I think that terminology has fallen out of use.

 

I've heard a lot of support over the years for Acid and Vacuum (yes, I agreed with it), and also Lava and Crystals. Along with Psionics, there were two other odd Elements that were being talked about by the fanbase back in 2010: Kinetics and Robotics. I think it's always been a big attraction of the original BIONICLE setting to expand the Elements: here's a set of powers, what else could fit? (The same holds true for Kanohi powers.) I remember as a kid, making up stories with my brothers of different Elemental tribes on Mata Nui (Electricity and Metal were two we thought of, long before they became canonized.) And, lest we forget Voriki, Toa of Energy, the first BIONICLE urban legend. So, I know back when G1 ended, a lot of people got sick of all the different Elemental proposals and discussions. But I've always had fun reading them, even when I didn't think they'd make great Elements.

 

If you're looking for new potential new Elements, there are three places I've found interesting:

  • Custom Bionicle Wikia. A lot of people have had ideas, and a few of them actually have potential, like Rahi, Radiation, or Technology. (Please ignore the Toa of Juice.) 
  • TVTropes Elemental Powers. It's a website that showcases common ideas in all kinds of stories. Stuff like Weather, Animals, Poison, Holy, and Aether all have been used as Elements in other stories.
  • Ninjago. The main characters have always had Elements, but they expanded their number of Elements drastically a few years ago. Most of them were old BIONICLE Elements, but they did introduce Smoke, Form, Speed, Poison, and Amber.
  • EDIT: Oh, how could I forget the Expanded Multiverse topic? It's right here in this forum! And it's got a bunch of new Elements and combination Elements.

I think the underlying question, for making new Elements, is this: Would a Toa have a unique and interesting power set? Sure, it's not always the case for the canon Elements (you could argue Plasma is functionally Fire, and that Magnetism is too close to Iron), and sometimes there's overlap with Kanohi powers (see Psionics and Gravity), but if you can make a case for a set of really cool Elemental powers, then I say go ahead and share! (I've been particularly inspired by Ninjago's Master of Smoke; he can turn his body into smoke, making it almost impossible for anyone to hit him.)

Edited by Takuna
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Yeah, there's definitely an elegance to limiting the number of powers. But in a story that started with Stone/Earth and Water/Ice as separate elements, and then added Fire/Plasma and Iron/Magnetism distinctions, I think BIONICLE is past that point.

 

What other elements are you seeing overlap with crystal? I can see a case made for Stone and Earth, but that's where I see it.

 

And I don't think 'making pointy rocks show up' is a fair representation of what people think Crystal could be. Just like Ice isn't just 'make ice show up,' we can use some imagination to expand the Crystal power set. Diamond is the hardest natural substance on earth; a Toa of Crystal could create impenetrable armor and impossibly sharp weapons. Crystals could also be used as information storage; a Toa of Crystal might have perfect memory, or be able to create and read information storage crystals. Lightstones and Heatstones are also special crystals we saw on Mata Nui; a Toa of Crystal could create these objects or even other similar objects (Waterstone, Focusstone, Strengthstone, whatever). There's potential there.

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well i mean that, at a base, an element is best with minimal overlap, so in review of bases:

 

Fire: creates/controls combustion/flame,

 

Ice: creates/controls cold/frost

 

Water: creates/controls liquid water

 

Air: creates/controls gasses

 

Stone: controls stones (may create stones?)

 

Earth: controls the ground, no precedent for creating it so far

 

Iron: creates and controls metals, like refined protodermis

 

Magnet: creates/controls magnetic fields (overlaps with metal, but in a really weird way, it is probably one of the more stressful elements to try and think about)

 

Gravity: similar to magnet, create/controls gravity wells, again, a little trickier to use than "make and throw rocks"

 

Plasma: creates/controls streams and orbs of blazing plasma, but can't control any flames or combustion this results in, probably not a smart one to use where fire would do the job better, but potentionally more situationally useful?

 

Jungle: creates/controls plant matter, obviously a little more abusable than "fire" given how many complex forms plant matter manifests in, but might also take more concentration to balance that?

 

Lightning: no brainer, controls/sparks electricity, duh

 

Sonics: creates/controls kinetic energy waves... uh yeah, that's another odd one, but no overlap!

 

Psion: can't create or control anything, can maybe control brains if they really wanted to, objectively the least elemental toa

 

there is, i admit fair evidence for crystal as a concept, but it would, of course, discount crystalline minerals from iron, stone, and earth, and probably can't control ice, which is a crystal, so of proposed concepts crystal can pass in bionicle i guess? (tr-purple/white colorscheme?) but things like "animals" or "computers" fall more in line with kanohi powers than element powers (justlikepsiondoes)

 

 

so yeah, an element can be a lot of creative stuff, but the base concepts need to be far enough apart, ice/water are scientifically comparable, but are often considered fairly separate in most people's minds, feel free to point out any i may have missed/gotten wrong! (or if i should have gone over nontoa elements but...)

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New Elements...? I know new Elements wouldn't be canon, but we already have Fire, Water, Air, Ice, Stone, Earth, Light, Shadow, Plasma, Lightning, Psionics, Plant Life, Sonics, Iron, Magnetism, Gravity, and then we have sub-elements/powers, such as Heat, Vacuum, Telekinesis, and Telepathy. Then we have completely Other Powers/Legendary Powers, such as Time, Life, and Creation, but also some other powers which are shared with the Rahkshi and Bohrok, such as Acid, Anger, Disintigration, Heat Vision, Laser Vision, Teleportation, and Shapeshifting. Then we have specific Abilities to specific species and devices, wuch as Fusions, the Nova Blast, Rhutoka, and the Shadow Hand.

 

Hmm...

 

To round it out to 20 it would make sence to make Vacuum, Acid, Heat, and Disintegration their own Elements, but have them be powers controlled by other elements. Fire to Heat, Air to Vacuum, Plant Life to Acid, Psionics to Disintegration.

 

Though as for Other Elements...? Y'know what? Lets look at the Periodic Table... Uranium... Um... Well that all I got.

 

So Uranium. Powers of Heat, Fission, Fusion, and Radiation.

 

There, does that work? Would that work?

 

Oh! I almost forgot! There is also a Void Element that was suppose to have become canon, or be introduced in some way.

 

Void. Powers of Vacuum, and Disintegration maybe?

Edited by Toa Imrukii

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Based on some of the responses I'm seeing, I feel the need to ask for reasons I may or may not do something with if I'm ever motivated: Is the number of elements what makes it feel over-saturated/tacky, or the fact that additional elements were added after that part of the lore was already established?

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Diamond is the hardest natural substance on earth; a Toa of Crystal could create impenetrable armor and impossibly sharp weapons.

 

Real-life diamonds are actually quite brittle, meaning they would make terrible armor, despite what Marvel's Emma Frost and Fullmetal Alchemist's Greed would have you believe. The weapon angle, on the other hand, is more or less correct.

Seeing as to how Bionicle is a fictional universe with fictional physics, however, I suppose that anything's possible. As for the perfect memory thing, though, that's actually pretty cool. One of the custom species over in the BZPRPG actually has a perception-based ability for that particular element as well; they can see farther while possessing a much higher visual clarity than beings of other elemental affinities.

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And yet no one seems to express any opinion on my idea of a new element....

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And yet no one seems to express any opinion on my idea of a new element....

Which is...?

 

EDIT: I realize you posted earlier. In response to that post, what do you mean, "void was supposed to be canonized?" Like, did Greg officially say he was going to do it, or something?

Edited by Sir Keksalot
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And yet no one seems to express any opinion on my idea of a new element....

 

Which is...?

 

EDIT: I realize you posted earlier. In response to that post, what do you mean, "void was supposed to be canonized?" Like, did Greg officially say he was going to do it, or something?

New Elements...? I know new Elements wouldn't be canon, but we already have Fire, Water, Air, Ice, Stone, Earth, Light, Shadow, Plasma, Lightning, Psionics, Plant Life, Sonics, Iron, Magnetism, Gravity, and then we have sub-elements/powers, such as Heat, Vacuum, Telekinesis, and Telepathy. Then we have completely Other Powers/Legendary Powers, such as Time, Life, and Creation, but also some other powers which are shared with the Rahkshi and Bohrok, such as Acid, Anger, Disintigration, Heat Vision, Laser Vision, Teleportation, and Shapeshifting. Then we have specific Abilities to specific species and devices, wuch as Fusions, the Nova Blast, Rhutoka, and the Shadow Hand.

Hmm...

To round it out to 20 it would make sence to make Vacuum, Acid, Heat, and Disintegration their own Elements, but have them be powers controlled by other elements. Fire to Heat, Air to Vacuum, Plant Life to Acid, Psionics to Disintegration.

Though as for Other Elements...? Y'know what? Lets look at the Periodic Table... Uranium... Um... Well that all I got.

So Uranium. Powers of Heat, Fission, Fusion, and Radiation.

There, does that work? Would that work?

Oh! I almost forgot! There is also a Void Element that was suppose to have become canon, or be introduced in some way.

Void. Powers of Vacuum, and Disintegration maybe?

Here.

 

As for the Void Element, I only heard that it was meant to have been made to be a thing. I heard it was meant to be canonized. Just just repeating what someone else said. It would be cool, but there isn't much known of it.

Edited by Toa Imrukii

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And yet no one seems to express any opinion on my idea of a new element....

Which is...?

 

EDIT: I realize you posted earlier. In response to that post, what do you mean, "void was supposed to be canonized?" Like, did Greg officially say he was going to do it, or something?

-snip-

Here.

 

As for the Void Element, I only heard that it was meant to have been made to be a thing. I heard it was meant to be canonized. Just just repeating what someone else said. It would be cool, but there isn't much known of it.

 

I'll accept it with a grain of salt. Maybe one day, we can as the Greg Spirit himself.

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As for the Element of Uranium.. Would that work?

Seems oddly specific. Uranium on Earth is pretty rare, and since Bionicle would seem to take place on an Earth-like planet in G1 and G2, we can assume its composition, structure, etc. are similar to Earth. It could be really cool, but would best be served lumped in with other radioactive substances; perhaps even with poison and acid into an element that encompasses toxic/harmful materials.

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As for the Element of Uranium.. Would that work?

 

Seems oddly specific. Uranium on Earth is pretty rare, and since Bionicle would seem to take place on an Earth-like planet in G1 and G2, we can assume its composition, structure, etc. are similar to Earth. It could be really cool, but would best be served lumped in with other radioactive substances; perhaps even with poison and acid into an element that encompasses toxic/harmful materials.
Really I'm using the word Unranium broadly, in meaning really anything radioactive or toxic, as seen here. Sort of...

 

Though as for Other Elements...? Y'know what? Lets look at the Periodic Table... Uranium... Um... Well that all I got.

So Uranium. Powers of Heat, Fission, Fusion, and Radiation.

There, does that work? Would that work?

What I mean here is that some explicitaly radioactively toxic. Poison is already a Rahkshi Element, so why not have a Non-Rahkshit element that also is toxic? Then again, Acid is a Sub-Element.. And I don't think is a Rahkshi Element?

 

Anyway, the point is that it's realy just Radioactive is all.

Edited by Toa Imrukii

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  • 2 weeks later...

Elements have been a topic of intense and frequent discussion since the very early days of Bionicle and BZPower, they’re pretty much a mainstay of the S&T forums.  The addition of new elements and comparison with existing elements to justify their inclusion is something that is brought up time and time again. Before the great forum outage, there was a topic named “Official Elements Discussion” which was a mecca of theories, proposals and debates.  I’ll see if I can dig up a link to the topic in the archives, as it’s an interesting read and went for over 250 pages from memory.

The thread really took off once additional elements began to become canonized in the Legends books, typically by Greg describing in passing a cameo or death scene of a Toa of a previously unseen element. Everyone wanted to contribute to canon and to speculate on which element would be added next.  
There were a few proposals that kept popping up repeatedly:

  • Kinetics – Movement based element based around manipulating speed and energy of attacks and using enemy’s strength and speed against them. There was a lot of people who wanted this, and a lot of those who didn’t including Greg who believed that the concept behind it was too difficult for kids to grasp onto.  Though after many fans petitioning him about it there was a BZP official Poll on whether the fans wanted it added or not. Majority voted against it (Think it was around 57%-43%) and thus it remained uncanon.
  • Vacuum – After the 5th Bohrok-Kalement became canon, the Vacuum debate wars reached a pretty intense peak with lots of people taking sides on whether it should become and element or not.  Quite a few people disliked the idea whilst others came up with many interesting and creative uses for vacuum based elemental usage.  This went on for a long time as Greg never really said No outright. From memory he said that he believed it didn’t have enough versatility to have a range of applications on its own to be made an element but was open to debate and ideas for how it could be expanded upon.  Debate somewhat ended when the “Subpowers and NTE(Non-Toa Elements)” approach emerged.
  • Acid – Similar to Vacuum, acid was thrown around frequently as a new toa element, however Greg was firm that he didn’t think that Lego would ever approve of having a ‘Good Guy’ character throwing around acid as a power. With the appearance of the Acid Elemental Monster in Lessovik’s Karzhani induced dream, acid became confirmed as the first official NTE.
  • Void – After Vacuum got shut down, there was a lot of talk about Void being introduced as and element which would have access to many of the fan theorized powers that Vacuum would have. The proposals went through several iterations, one that stands out in my memory was made by Surrelity to have a Void as a neutral morality element based in between light and shadow.  Greg said no at this point as he’d said that Psionics was to be the last new element.
  • Crystal – Frequently suggested but shut down by Greg many times as it was covered by Stone( Lightstones and naturally occurring geode crystals) and Ice (Crystalline Protodermis is controlled by Toa of Ice inside the MU).
  • Lava – Dismissed as it’s a combination element of Fire and Stone/Earth as shown by the Piraka in the books.
  • Psionics – Proposed frequently and eventually canonized by Greg at the end of the MU arc.
  • Organics / Biotics / Healing – Also showed up a fair bit, many theorycrafters had fun attempting to make them mesh well together. Sometimes Acid was lumped in with this group too.  From memory, Greg’s stance was that the different abilities and powers that were included in these theories generally worked better as individual powers.

I was a much more active poster and contributor in those threads than I am now and submitted quite a few proposals myself.

I feel like it’s a bit too late to go adding in new elements to canon now, but I’m always up for discussion of new potential elements and finding ways to explain and justify the interesting variety of elements that exist in the canon.

 

- Roki 

Edited by Roki
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Kinetics – Movement based element based around manipulating speed and energy of attacks and using enemy’s strength and speed against them. There was a lot of people who wanted this, and a lot of those who didn’t including Greg who believed that the concept behind it was too difficult for kids to grasp onto.  Though after many fans petitioning him about it there was a BZP official Poll on whether the fans wanted it added or not. Majority voted against it (Think it was around 57%-43%) and thus it remained uncanon.

Oooh, this sounds pretty awesome, actually.  I kinda want to make a Toa of Kinetics now.

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Kinetics – Movement based element based around manipulating speed and energy of attacks and using enemy’s strength and speed against them. There was a lot of people who wanted this, and a lot of those who didn’t including Greg who believed that the concept behind it was too difficult for kids to grasp onto.  Though after many fans petitioning him about it there was a BZP official Poll on whether the fans wanted it added or not. Majority voted against it (Think it was around 57%-43%) and thus it remained uncanon.

Oooh, this sounds pretty awesome, actually.  I kinda want to make a Toa of Kinetics now.

 

You're in luck, my Pirate Red Ranger friend.  It's still not official LEGO canon, but I'd suggest you check out the Expanded Multiverse sticky in this forum if you haven't already.  IIRC, all of the elements that Roki listed, including Kinetics, are (fanon) "official" Matoran/Toa elements in that universe.  If you need inspiration for color schemes or abilities, I'd swing by there.

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You're in luck, my Pirate Red Ranger friend.  It's still not official LEGO canon, but I'd suggest you check out the Expanded Multiverse sticky in this forum if you haven't already.  IIRC, all of the elements that Roki listed, including Kinetics, are (fanon) "official" Matoran/Toa elements in that universe.  If you need inspiration for color schemes or abilities, I'd swing by there.

Niiiiice.

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  • Kinetics – Movement based element based around manipulating speed and energy of attacks and using enemy’s strength and speed against them. There was a lot of people who wanted this, and a lot of those who didn’t including Greg who believed that the concept behind it was too difficult for kids to grasp onto.  Though after many fans petitioning him about it there was a BZP official Poll on whether the fans wanted it added or not. Majority voted against it (Think it was around 57%-43%) and thus it remained uncanon.

Imagine the ability to load up objects or enemies with potential enemy so they go flying at a mere flick (though that could really hurt the user because of Newton's 3rd law). But nooooo, the target audience couldn't handle the idea of MOVEMENT being a thing that exists. Who would vote against that? It could easily take the place of Sonics, as sound is really just moving particles; as such, it wouldn't have to add clutter to the lore. It could also replace Psionics, since telekinesis would be covered and there are masks for mind-reading and control. There are absolutely no cons, only benefits. I know kids aren't exactly able to grasp complicated physics, but it's no more complex than Psionics, so I call Kane-Ra .

 

On the topic of acid--"poison" could have been an element as well, encompassing both acids and bases and various toxins. If good guys can use fire, why can't they have other destructive stuff? Again, Kane-Ra .

Edited by Sir Keksalot

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Yeah, I'm not sure I totally buy into that explanation for Kinetics, either. If kids have little to no trouble understanding how the powers of Gambit, Bishop, and Sebastian Shaw work over in Marvel's X-Men continuity, then expecting them to grasp how a Toa of Kinetics could potentially function shouldn't have really been that big of a leap to begin with.

Then again, I suppose that one could create a case in which it would've robbed some of the other elements of their uniqueness, as well as it being more than a little OP. I mean, just taking the three previously mentioned characters as an example, one with the power over Kinetics could effectively:

 

- cause things to explode

- charge their weapons with enough energy to level a building

- possess enhanced physical attributes, and by that, I mean pretty much all of them

- possess immunity to mental detection, intrusion, and assault

- influence other beings via a hypnotic charm

- perform transmutation (turning one substance into another)

- disintegrate/incinerate other objects or beings

- fire off energy blasts and absorb them

- defy gravity

- heal wounds

- cause paralysis or death by ceasing the motion of other beings or simply force them to be unable to stop moving

- forgo rest for extended periods of time with little to no ill effects

- or possess a resistance bordering on complete immunity to any and all physical attacks

 

And those are just the abilities these characters have listed that aren't ridiculously OP by themselves, such as transforming into beings of pure energy or traveling through freaking time.

Assuming that the story team went with a set consisting of the less powerful abilities, they'd still mostly be able to counter beings possessing the elements of Sonics, Psionics, Lightning, and potentially Light and Fire (possibly also Plasma) due to being able to directly cease their heat. Killing or simply defeating them at all would also be quite the accomplishment, considering they'd rarely tire, would constantly be surrounded by a near infinite source of power to absorb, and could simply accelerate their own healing in the event that they were even damaged at all in the first place as well. In short, this would require some serious nerfing just to be considered for canon purposes, and even more so for an actual game based off of the Bionicle lore at large.

Edited by Timageness

Epics: 

Hero Factory: Contagion

RPG Characters:

BZPRPG Characters

RPG History:

The Asylum, Bionifight Infinite, Year 60,000, Matoran und Panzer, HF RPG 2.0, Wasteland, Corpus Rahkshi, Skyrise

GM Résumé:

Matoran und Panzer (Formerly Appointed Co-GM), Corpus Rahkshi (Former Substitute Co-GM)

 

 

Feel free to shoot a PM my way if you're waiting for me to respond to something and I've been taking a while to do so.

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Yeah, I'm not sure I totally buy into that explanation for Kinetics, either. If kids have little to no trouble understanding how the powers of Gambit, Bishop, and Sebastian Shaw work over in Marvel's X-Men continuity, then expecting them to grasp how a Toa of Kinetics could potentially function shouldn't have really been that big of a leap to begin with.

Then again, I suppose that one could create a case in which it would've robbed some of the other elements of their uniqueness, as well as it being more than a little OP. I mean, just taking the three previously mentioned characters as an example, one with the power over Kinetics could effectively:

 

- cause things to explode

- charge their weapons with enough energy to level a building

- possess enhanced physical attributes, and by that, I mean pretty much all of them

- possess immunity to mental detection, intrusion, and assault

- influence other beings via a hypnotic charm

- perform transmutation (turning one substance into another)

- disintegrate/incinerate other objects or beings

- fire off energy blasts and absorb them

- defy gravity

- heal wounds

- cause paralysis or death by ceasing the motion of other beings or simply force them to be unable to stop moving

- forgo rest for extended periods of time with little to no ill effects

- or possess a resistance bordering on complete immunity to any and all physical attacks

 

And those are just the abilities these characters have listed that aren't ridiculously OP by themselves, such as transforming into beings of pure energy or traveling through freaking time.

Assuming that the story team went with a set consisting of the less powerful abilities, they'd still mostly be able to counter beings possessing the elements of Sonics, Psionics, Lightning, and potentially Light and Fire (possibly also Plasma) due to being able to directly cease their heat. Killing or simply defeating them at all would also be quite the accomplishment, considering they'd rarely tire, would constantly be surrounded by a near infinite source of power to absorb, and could simply accelerate their own healing in the event that they were even damaged at all in the first place as well. In short, this would require some serious nerfing just to be considered for canon purposes, and even more so for an actual game based off of the Bionicle lore at large.

Well, all of the elements are stupidly OP to a tee. Consider Air, for example--with enough energy at the user's disposal, it can level a building manually, suck all the air out of an area to simulate the vacuum of space, blow away any potential aggressors, make people explode from the inside by expanding the air in their lungs, etc. However, given the restrictions brought about by the Toa Code and a Toa's specific limitations, that may not always be a realistic outcome. The same may apply to Kinetics--the amount of elemental energy needed for some particularly OP things, like leveling buildings, may be more than any one Toa might have at a specific time.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

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Are we now delving into the oddly scientific realm of how OP certain element powers are?  Because I could talk up a good storm about that.

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Yeah, I'm not sure I totally buy into that explanation for Kinetics, either. If kids have little to no trouble understanding how the powers of Gambit, Bishop, and Sebastian Shaw work over in Marvel's X-Men continuity, then expecting them to grasp how a Toa of Kinetics could potentially function shouldn't have really been that big of a leap to begin with.

Then again, I suppose that one could create a case in which it would've robbed some of the other elements of their uniqueness, as well as it being more than a little OP. I mean, just taking the three previously mentioned characters as an example, one with the power over Kinetics could effectively:

 

- cause things to explode

- charge their weapons with enough energy to level a building

- possess enhanced physical attributes, and by that, I mean pretty much all of them

- possess immunity to mental detection, intrusion, and assault

- influence other beings via a hypnotic charm

- perform transmutation (turning one substance into another)

- disintegrate/incinerate other objects or beings

- fire off energy blasts and absorb them

- defy gravity

- heal wounds

- cause paralysis or death by ceasing the motion of other beings or simply force them to be unable to stop moving

- forgo rest for extended periods of time with little to no ill effects

- or possess a resistance bordering on complete immunity to any and all physical attacks

 

And those are just the abilities these characters have listed that aren't ridiculously OP by themselves, such as transforming into beings of pure energy or traveling through freaking time.

Assuming that the story team went with a set consisting of the less powerful abilities, they'd still mostly be able to counter beings possessing the elements of Sonics, Psionics, Lightning, and potentially Light and Fire (possibly also Plasma) due to being able to directly cease their heat. Killing or simply defeating them at all would also be quite the accomplishment, considering they'd rarely tire, would constantly be surrounded by a near infinite source of power to absorb, and could simply accelerate their own healing in the event that they were even damaged at all in the first place as well. In short, this would require some serious nerfing just to be considered for canon purposes, and even more so for an actual game based off of the Bionicle lore at large.

 

Well, all of the elements are stupidly OP to a tee. Consider Air, for example--with enough energy at the user's disposal, it can level a building manually, suck all the air out of an area to simulate the vacuum of space, blow away any potential aggressors, make people explode from the inside by expanding the air in their lungs, etc. However, given the restrictions brought about by the Toa Code and a Toa's specific limitations, that may not always be a realistic outcome. The same may apply to Kinetics--the amount of elemental energy needed for some particularly OP things, like leveling buildings, may be more than any one Toa might have at a specific time.

 

True, but seeing as to how control over wind (and pretty much most other elemental abilities and/or power effects) is still essentially achieved via movement, and a Toa of Kinetics would have control over pretty much all forms of motion, they could effectively negate any attempts to harm them simply by absorbing Kinetic energy from the immediate area.

Aside from Gravity, Magnetism, Psionics' telepathy (if we were to disregard the potential mental shielding), and possibly Light, it's basically the element of shutting down all other elements/powers. And that's not even taking the majority of its other potential uses into consideration, so it pretty much single-handedly redefines the entire definition of "stupidly OP".

Epics: 

Hero Factory: Contagion

RPG Characters:

BZPRPG Characters

RPG History:

The Asylum, Bionifight Infinite, Year 60,000, Matoran und Panzer, HF RPG 2.0, Wasteland, Corpus Rahkshi, Skyrise

GM Résumé:

Matoran und Panzer (Formerly Appointed Co-GM), Corpus Rahkshi (Former Substitute Co-GM)

 

 

Feel free to shoot a PM my way if you're waiting for me to respond to something and I've been taking a while to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure I totally buy into that explanation for Kinetics, either. If kids have little to no trouble understanding how the powers of Gambit, Bishop, and Sebastian Shaw work over in Marvel's X-Men continuity, then expecting them to grasp how a Toa of Kinetics could potentially function shouldn't have really been that big of a leap to begin with.

Then again, I suppose that one could create a case in which it would've robbed some of the other elements of their uniqueness, as well as it being more than a little OP. I mean, just taking the three previously mentioned characters as an example, one with the power over Kinetics could effectively:

 

- cause things to explode

- charge their weapons with enough energy to level a building

- possess enhanced physical attributes, and by that, I mean pretty much all of them

- possess immunity to mental detection, intrusion, and assault

- influence other beings via a hypnotic charm

- perform transmutation (turning one substance into another)

- disintegrate/incinerate other objects or beings

- fire off energy blasts and absorb them

- defy gravity

- heal wounds

- cause paralysis or death by ceasing the motion of other beings or simply force them to be unable to stop moving

- forgo rest for extended periods of time with little to no ill effects

- or possess a resistance bordering on complete immunity to any and all physical attacks

 

And those are just the abilities these characters have listed that aren't ridiculously OP by themselves, such as transforming into beings of pure energy or traveling through freaking time.

Assuming that the story team went with a set consisting of the less powerful abilities, they'd still mostly be able to counter beings possessing the elements of Sonics, Psionics, Lightning, and potentially Light and Fire (possibly also Plasma) due to being able to directly cease their heat. Killing or simply defeating them at all would also be quite the accomplishment, considering they'd rarely tire, would constantly be surrounded by a near infinite source of power to absorb, and could simply accelerate their own healing in the event that they were even damaged at all in the first place as well. In short, this would require some serious nerfing just to be considered for canon purposes, and even more so for an actual game based off of the Bionicle lore at large.

 

Well, all of the elements are stupidly OP to a tee. Consider Air, for example--with enough energy at the user's disposal, it can level a building manually, suck all the air out of an area to simulate the vacuum of space, blow away any potential aggressors, make people explode from the inside by expanding the air in their lungs, etc. However, given the restrictions brought about by the Toa Code and a Toa's specific limitations, that may not always be a realistic outcome. The same may apply to Kinetics--the amount of elemental energy needed for some particularly OP things, like leveling buildings, may be more than any one Toa might have at a specific time.

 

True, but seeing as to how control over wind (and pretty much most other elemental abilities and/or power effects) is still essentially achieved via movement, and a Toa of Kinetics would have control over pretty much all forms of motion, they could effectively negate any attempts to harm them simply by absorbing Kinetic energy from the immediate area.

Aside from Gravity, Magnetism, Psionics' telepathy (if we were to disregard the potential mental shielding), and possibly Light, it's basically the element of shutting down all other elements/powers. And that's not even taking the majority of its other potential uses into consideration, so it pretty much single-handedly redefines the entire definition of "stupidly OP".

 

Well, whomever should decide to add Kinetics to their fanfic can simply add a number of restrictions so that it's not OP. Or there's no way around it, and the antagonist is super powerful because he's a Toa of Kinetics.

Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

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  • 2 months later...

 

I had always wanted crystal as an element until psionics was canonized, after which I have been staunchly opposed to the idea of so many elements.  The idea of having psionics—literal mental processes—as something wieldable by a Toa as an elemental power alongside actual physical things like stone and fire and air and iron struck me as entirely absurd, and shortly after its canonization there was a push for making inertia an element, which thankfully was never made real.

 

I get plasma, and even gravity to an extent, although in hindsight gravity makes only a tiny bit more sense than psionics.

 

yaaa, this too! psion toa have access to powers like mind reading and suggestion which if you didn't know were also, fancy that, kanohi powers! feel a little redundant yet? no other element does this (excusing the kanohi garai but that mask is a questionable mess as is) alongside the mentioned "isn't really a natural thing?? thing and it is kinda out of place.

 

Apparently all elements have Kanohi with that power, except psionics has like five different kanohi with its powers.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Gentlemen, you must never be afraid to dream bigger. How about... The Element of Surprise! AHAH! Didn't expect that did you?

Edited by Azon
  • Upvote 2

Gleaming glistens The Red Star,
Bringing life to death afar,
Up away in deepest space,
You call me from your distant place.

Proud member of the Kanohi Force (Disavowed, but never dead)

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Gentlemen, you must never be afraid to dream bigger. How about... The Element of Surprise! AHAH! Didn't expect that did you?

Boooooooo! ;)

 

Honestly Bionicle seems to have all the pertinent ones covered; anything else would be rather overdone.

Voicing your opinions with tact is the best way to keep a discussion from becoming an argument.
So far as I'm aware, it's pronounced like this: We're ee ah moo.
 

Check out my Creations:

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G1 Battle for Spherus Magna - G2 A Lingering Shadow


Short Stories

G1 Fallen Guardian - G2 Shadows of Past and Future (The Legend Continues Entry) Head of Stone, Heart of Jungle


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Mask Hoarder, Desert Scourge

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