The Official OTC TBRPG Planning and Organization Topic

[Prowl Nightwolf]

well having a fan base for it would be the biggest hurtle. It wont matter how good a RP is if people are not interested in playing it. Being that this is a Bionicle/Lego fan forum I can imagine there could be a shortage of transformer fans but not impossible that there are enough for a viable RP. The equation set forth is are there enough RPers here who are also fans of the Transformer's franchise. So far I think we have 5 known fans and others coming out of the woodwork as time progresses.

Well on another Forum that was strictly Transformers we had about 10 active RPers. the RP lasted some 15 years and 2 different forums. So yeah I think it is possible.

[IcarusBen]

I was thinking of starting up a sort of YuGiOh!-themed RP, with dueling brought to you courtesy of either YGOPro or Dueling Network, similar to what Dueling Network has on their form but more inline with the anime than anything else.

[shadow pridak money gang]

Then why not just use Dueling Network?

 

In any case, I'm incredibly skeptical of games based on real-world collectibles or games considering how badly the Bakugan RPG flopped. This seems like the same thing - except spell and trap cards instead of gate cards and, you know, no Bakugan - that's going to try and work a mechanic for duels into an RPG and end up doing both mediocrely at best.

 

-Tyler

[IcarusBen]

The DNF RP is horribly, HORRIBLY large in terms of how many topics it spans that it makes the BZPRPG look like... well, whatever's smaller than the BZPRPG. A BZP version would be less complicated and preferably less ERMEHGERD MERJERK GERRMS!!!

 

Ahem... Sorry. I meant to say "Oh my gawd, magic games!!!"

[shadow pridak money gang]

But that doesn't answer my questions on how you would make it work.

 

-Tyler

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Yeah I'd love a Yu-gi-oh (non-card version) Type of RPG like in my days of Youth I use to play with the plastic figures along with my Pokémon and Digimon figures in one big Sandbox style playground. By that I mean my bedroom.

[IcarusBen]

Character creation would include a DN username and a deck. Duels between two characters would have an agreed upon time IRL, then they'd duel over DN (a free browser-based YGO sim) Then they'd post a picture of the end of the duel and then they would IC the direct aftermath. It works for DN.

 

As for Prowl's post, considering the focus of Yugioh are the cards, then logically, a non-card version wouldn't be too Yugioh-ey.

[Alex Humva]

I said it once, I'll say it again. Signed statements, in my inbox, dated, of five players pledging to stay active in a Transformers RPG. If it fails, then I'll be sure that neither I nor whoever follows my position will ever approve a Transformers RPG so long as this site is still running.

[shadow pridak money gang]

The point of RPGs isn't to tack on a bunch of multimedia and sims outside of BZP so you can play the RPGs. This is exactly why I don't like the idea of a YuGiOh! RPG, or a Bakugan RPG, or a Duel Masters RPG. Pokemon gets a pass because it developed as its own thing and the game aspect came along solely as merchandising. The rest of those franchises are intrinsically tied to the idea of playing the game to advance the plot, which pretty much makes the RPG a group of people who like playing a game, but invent characters to play against each other instead of just...playing against each other.

 

I can say with almost total certainty that I wouldn't approve a game like that.

 

-Tyler

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well There is the Shadow realm where the Monsters were real. Also that season where they were in that RPG game and had to save Mokuba... So Yu-gi-oh does not have to be strictly cards from a deck. It's doable if one really wanted to. Me, I don't think I'd play it due to the level of RPs I am in right now to begin with...

[Havelock Vetinari]

I have to agree with Tyler. Pokemon works-and works well-I highly suggest any RPG based upon similar media follow it's excellent example. The usage of offsite resources is also something of a gamekiller, as there has not been, to my knowledge, a single RPG that uses such a setup that has successfully based muster...for good reason at that.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Havelock Vetinari

[IcarusBen]

The point of RPGs isn't to tack on a bunch of multimedia and sims outside of BZP so you can play the RPGs. This is exactly why I don't like the idea of a YuGiOh! RPG, or a Bakugan RPG, or a Duel Masters RPG. Pokemon gets a pass because it developed as its own thing and the game aspect came along solely as merchandising. The rest of those franchises are intrinsically tied to the idea of playing the game to advance the plot, which pretty much makes the RPG a group of people who like playing a game, but invent characters to play against each other instead of just...playing against each other.

 

I can say with almost total certainty that I wouldn't approve a game like that.

 

-Tyler

If I wanted it just to be "invent character, play others" then I'd go to the G&T forum or, better yet, the DN forum. The point of a YGO RP would be to have the dueling complement the rest of the experience. 

 

Again, turning to the DNFRP, they use the duels as a side aspect. There's a lot of non-duel related posts there. Exploration, interaction, running around-tion. 

 

As for why an RP that uses offsite resources doesn't work, it's because no one so far has been able to muster up enough balance. This RP would be 75% IC, 25% offsite, like any RPG that uses offsite media should.

 

EDIT: Prowl, I wanted this RP to distance itself from the fantasy part of Yugioh as much as possible. Sci-fi I'm fine with, but all that Shadow Realm and Penalty Game stuff is what makes me want to make a less fantasy RP in the first place.

Edited April 1, 2015 by IcarusBen

[shadow pridak money gang]

That's also almost entirely (if I'm understanding this right) a Yu-Gi-Oh! forum. It's the same case that Prowl's decade-long Transformers game anecdote up there used, and it has the same flaws - BZP isn't exclusively a website for people with those interests, and it's not going to have the infrastructure or the long-term influence out of the gate that a Transformers or YGO game would if you hosted one on those sites. It would be just a few players having to maintain a very risky concept, which, given OTC's state, doesn't sound very good to an RPer whose job is approving only the games he thinks can survive and prosper in the forum.

 

-Tyler

[IcarusBen]

That's also almost entirely (if I'm understanding this right) a Yu-Gi-Oh! forum. It's the same case that Prowl's decade-long Transformers game anecdote up there used, and it has the same flaws - BZP isn't exclusively a website for people with those interests, and it's not going to have the infrastructure or the long-term influence out of the gate that a Transformers or YGO game would if you hosted one on those sites. It would be just a few players having to maintain a very risky concept, which, given OTC's state, doesn't sound very good to an RPer whose job is approving only the games he thinks can survive and prosper in the forum.

 

-Tyler

I've said this before about stat-based RPGs, but if the only reason you won't approve it is because it's a "risky concept," then we'll never know if it works under those circumstances. Like parents say, how can you know you won't like it if you won't try it?

 

If it fails, it fails. We won't try it again as long as BZP stands. But never giving it a chance? It's like a racehorse losing before it even gets out of the gate.

[shadow pridak money gang]

Stat-based RPGs work fine. RTSes were built successfully around them for years in this forum and COT before it. Game-inside-a-game RPGs, as far as we've seen, don't. Don't condescend to me when you literally have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

-Tyler

[Alex Humva]

 

 

Like parents say, how can you know you won't like it if you won't try it?

We have. It was long, long before you time. It didn't work.

[IcarusBen]

Stat-based RPGs work fine. RTSes were built successfully around them for years in this forum and COT before it. Game-inside-a-game RPGs, as far as we've seen, don't. Don't condescend to me when you literally have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

-Tyler

Wow. You're a rarity. Admittedly, I tend to keep to the Bionicle-based RP section, but most people there seem to really hate on stat-based games.

 

And, again, the issues I've seen on other forums with game-inside-a-game RPGs has been balance. If there was an RP that could balance offsite media and IC stuff, then it could work, but now, it seems like you're completely closed to the idea, I shall bid you adieu.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

While you're doing that, maybe you should talk to folks in the OTC RPing community, get a feel for what happened the last time stuff like that was tried, so you understand why people are so against the idea now.

 

One thing I can say for my own part is that it's a pretty much immediate turn-off whenever an RPG requires so much as an offsite chat utility, and that if I'm going to spend half of an RPG playing cards, it had better be blackjack.

[Constructelf]

 

 

Stat-based RPGs work fine. RTSes were built successfully around them for years in this forum and COT before it. Game-inside-a-game RPGs, as far as we've seen, don't. Don't condescend to me when you literally have no idea what you're talking about.

 

-Tyler

Wow. You're a rarity. Admittedly, I tend to keep to the Bionicle-based RP section, but most people there seem to really hate on stat-based games.

Those OTC stat based games are quite a different fare from the Bionicle RPG usual. Rather than playing as indivudla characters, each player controls a faction/nation/organization/whatever and has to manage its logistics (hence why the stats are necessary). The difference between those RPGs and the stuff usually seen over in Bionicle RPG and even here in OTC is basically the difference between Starcraft and The Elder Scrolls. See Fountains of Mana for an example. Edited April 2, 2015 by One-Eyed Construct

[Let's Henshin!]

So first off I'm just gonna express my doubts on a Transformers RPG. After all a Transformers RPG has historically not done so hot on these forums. Keep in mind that was when the OTC RPG scene was in a much better state than the current sordid affair. Games like FTL and Frostbite just show how quickly games with large player bases can die. Marvel and Pokemon are limping along thanks basically to their size and extremely dedicated player bases. Then finally, there's Persona and Underdark both of which are doing pretty poorly. Keep in mind that both of these games are run by relatively experienced GMs who have been Roleplaying and GMing for quite a while. 

 

Now into this rather prickly situation, where games seem to limp and eventually die unless they're Marvel or Pokemon, you guys want to add in another game? A game that has not worked on this forum in it's last 3(?) attempts? Not to mention the GMs are players, and I mean no offense by this, that have not been around for a while or have shown experience in GMing? 

 

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how it will work. 

 

Of course all that is just my two cents and the ultimate decision is of course up to the judges. But unless those issues are fixed, I just can't see it working. 

 

Now that got long winded, hopefully the next one will be a later shorter. 

 

The Yugioh RPG. Man, I should start by saying I love this game. I've been working on a competitive deck for quite a while now, Krayzikk and Hubert can both attest to my constant rants about the Meta or Konami. In addition to that I'm also constantly trying to get them to duel on YGOPro. (Speaking of which, Krayzikk we still need to rebuild your deck.) Heck, I've even been trying to get Tyler to play again. (Buddy, you need to download that program already.)

 

All of that said, I also believe a Yugioh RPG won't work. I'd love it if were possible, but I just can't see it working. In addition to the large number of problems plaguing the OTC Forum in general, which I enumerated on above, there's quite a few specific problems. 

 

First off: Decks.

 

Now this is a two fold problem, the first glaring issues is that you're quickly gonna find that players have to choose between character and functionality. That's not a good sign. What I mean by this, is that players can build their decks in one of two ways. The first option is to build according to characters, which is most cases will lead to gimmicky and inconsistent decks. The other option is to build a deck that's competitive and top-tier, but this will cause these players to have unfair advantage to start with. Now of course most players will probably find a middle ground between the two, but even that will cause them sacrifice character for functionality. That just isn't a smart choice for an RPG which should revolve around characters. In addition it will lead to characters that are "good" duelists to lose to characters that just have better decks. 

 

The second issue is of course deck building in and of itself. Most players on this site have no idea how to build a Yugioh deck. That's not a good thing seeing as you just limited your player base severely. Of those that do know, or can figure it out, there's a large skill gap between them and players who are following the meta and playing competitively. Suddenly a player's skill in the game thrumps that of the character. Like I mentioned before, this is also not a good thing. 

 

Now of course you could try alleviating the problem by handing out pre-built decks, but that not only limits creativity, and it would also require extensive play testing to ensure overall fairness. 

 

Problem 2: Dueling. 

 

Alright say you somehow manage to find a way to fix the above problems. You've still got a large glaring hole thanks to the duels. Now I know you mention Dueling Network and YGOPro as proxies, but as the others have already mentioned relying on offline sites is a sketchy proposition. It'd require both players to have access to said programs. So there go all tablet and phone players. All players who don't want to or can't make an account on another site. Players without access to high end browsers. You get the idea. 

 

Now what about those players that do have access? Well, said players will have to be able to get on at the same time (timezones make this rough) and also have enough time to finish a duel. Depending on the decks and player skill level, this can take anywhere from 5-20+ minutes. That's an unreasonable amount to expect any player to put in. Then there's the hassle of recording results onto the site, and simply saying that "X lost and B won is not exactly great roleplaying. Unfortunately doing a play by play is even more time wasting.

 

Finally there's the matter of player skill and know how. Lot's of RPers here don't know how to play. Of those who do, there once again exists a large skill gap. I've already mentioned the problems of Player Skill thrumping Character Skill in the last point, so I'll just leave it at that.

 

Problem 3: Roadblocks

 

Alright, this one refers to a problem lots of RPGs in fictional universes face. Something I like to call roadblocks that prevent players from joining. What I mean by this is all the lore and mechanics and player would have to learn in order to join. Generally speaking the more things a player has to learn, the higher chance they'll feel locked out and thus not join.

 

In an Forum that has such difficulty getting player bases established this is terrible. You can already see this problem with Underdark, where players have to learn some of D&D's lore, and Persona, where players have to understand the Persona mechanic. Both games are always currently struggling. I assure that's not a coincidence.

 

Now let's look at Yugioh. If you go the dueling route you expect characters to learn the mechanics of entire game with all of it's complex rulings like missing the timing and negate vs destroy. If you go for a more fantasty route that nixes dueling, players have to learn of the lore of a long running card game and series. A lore that is very finnicky and always changing with things like Duel Terminal or just vague flavor texts. 

 

Both of those are not pretty options and I'd be surprised if you got even one player who didn't already play Yugioh to join. 

 

 

 

Now of course there's still quite a few other issues, but I feel like those are going to be the major issues that'll get in the way. If you can somehow solve this, then sure I'd be open to help plan ideas. However I just don't believe such a thing to be possible. Keep in mind that all of these issues are in addition to the poor state of the OTC currently. Personally I don't like seeing so many games suggested when the games currently in play have to yet to establish any footing. It's one of the main reasons I haven't brought back my own game.

 

So yeah, that got a little long winded. Sorry.  

[-Golden Knight-]

Man, when was the last time we had a Gundam RPG? 

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Man, when was the last time we had a Gundam RPG?

I call Dragon Gundam!!

[25K Now!]

Man, when was the last time we had a Gundam RPG? 

Never, from my time here.

 

We did have a mecha RPG that died due to staff disagreements (I screwed up hard), and one of the Judges, Krayzikk, has had experience GMing a Gundam RPG offsite (fell to inactivity), but no Gundam RPGs here.

[-Golden Knight-]

A GBF RPG would be fun, but the fact that it melds the Gundam AUs and their respective technologies make it seem difficult to balance. Stuff like Moonlight Butterfly, Trans-Am, EXAM, NT-D, DG Cells, and the like are all considered pinnacles of technology in their respective timelines but how would they fare up against each other? Trans-Am makes a Gundam with a GN Drive go three times as fast but could it beat the Zero System's predictive computer? How would NT-D work against EXAM system suits? Moonlight Butterfly would destroy all other technology but if that's the case then why doesn't everyone use a modded Turn A? Plavsky particle storage seems to be what the anime uses to determine just how often a character spams some high-powered move. The build quality of a kit also modifies the suit's performance to a great degree so would players be stuck at a set skill level until the plot progressed or would there be some minor leveling system?

 

A straight up Gundam RPG would be nice but I don't think it'd be easy to choose which universe to set it in, especially since the fanbase for this franchise seems rather low here.

Edited April 2, 2015 by -Golden Knight-

[25K Now!]

Sazaki did destroy Gonda's Turn A with a Gyan in the first season.

 

And we don't need to go for any of the established AU universes or the UC. We could create an original one.

[Krayzikk]

 

Stat-based RPGs work fine. RTSes were built successfully around them for years in this forum and COT before it. Game-inside-a-game RPGs, as far as we've seen, don't. Don't condescend to me when you literally have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

-Tyler

Wow. You're a rarity. Admittedly, I tend to keep to the Bionicle-based RP section, but most people there seem to really hate on stat-based games.

 

And, again, the issues I've seen on other forums with game-inside-a-game RPGs has been balance. If there was an RP that could balance offsite media and IC stuff, then it could work, but now, it seems like you're completely closed to the idea, I shall bid you adieu.

 

 

 

There's an important distinction; in the BRPG forum, people are discussing adding stats to a TBRPG a la Dungeons and Dragons. What has been done here, primarily, is stats in an RTSRPG. A Real Time Strategy RPG. Essentially a text based multiplayer game of Civilization, rather than a text based roleplaying game. I think you'll find that, barring a few outstanding exceptions, most people here are pretty against stats in character based games as well.

 

Mostly because there is a high degree of overlap between the BRPG and OTC forum community members.

 

Man, when was the last time we had a Gundam RPG? 

 

As Hub noted, I'm more qualified than most (aka everyone except Onarax who is equal) to comment on this particular subject. We haven't had a mecha game since the exceptionally short lived Clad in Iron, which bore resemblance to the more Real Robot end of the UC timeline. Things like the 08th MS Team and similar works in particular, as the game was entirely ground based at its inception.

 

I also ran a Gundam RPG off site (with Onarax as a co-host), and we actually solved all of the issues regarding what timeline to use by creating an entirely new one. We had a fair degree of players, but unlike most games here, the game required more direct GM action. Which was absent, as I found my time consumed shortly after it started.

 

The biggest challenge a Gundam, or even general mecha, game would encounter here is playerbase. Balancing issues are easy to handle, simply by having the GMs enforce a certain degree of acceptable capabilities among what was submitted a la superpowers in Marvel. A Gundam Build Fighters game would be a little more difficult in that regard, and I think would have an even harder time gaining traction with a playerbase than a realistic game would simply due to its concept.

 

In short, one would be nice. Between both games I actually have access to substantial notes on how they were run. But I'm not sure that a substantial enough playerbase could be found.

[25K Now!]

You're more qualified than Onarax on the basis of actually having seen more Gundam shows.

[Krayzikk]

You're more qualified than Onarax on the basis of actually having seen more Gundam shows.

 

Indeed.

 

Seed, half of Destiny, 00, GBF, GBF Try, 0079, 08th MS Team, Stardust Memory, Zeta, and half of ZZ. 

[25K Now!]

You know what's a setting we could use for Gundam?

 

The 7th Space War of Gundam X. It's got a basic outline of things, but there's barely anything about it beyond 99% of humanity dying at the end.

[IcarusBen]

Holy Mata Nui, that's a lot of Gundam.

 

How much Gundam is there? I thought Power Rangers had it bad...

[Alex Humva]

Twenty nine shows in the Gundam canon, plus dozens of mangas, movies, novels, and games. It's a pretty indepth series.

[Let's Henshin!]

For comparison Power Rangers has 20 seasons, 17 of which are uniquely different shows. 

Super Sentai on the other hand has 39 different series. 

 

As with Gundam these also have loads of manga, movies, novels, and games. 

 

Also yeah, I agree with Kray on everything that has been said regarding a gundam game. A playerbase just isn't there right now. Not to mention the difficulty of starting up yet another game in the OTC.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Sora Tryon

[IcarusBen]

Actually, to the best of my knowledge, there has been very little SS or PR apocrypha. A few games, a few comics here and there, don't remember any books other than coloring and children's storybooks.

 

Of course, how do we keep running into the playerbase issue? Isn't that a problem with every OTC RPG; a smaller playerbase than, say, a Bionicle RPG?

[Prowl Nightwolf]

 

You're more qualified than Onarax on the basis of actually having seen more Gundam shows.

 

Indeed.

 

Seed, half of Destiny, 00, GBF, GBF Try, 0079, 08th MS Team, Stardust Memory, Zeta, and half of ZZ.

 

Twenty nine shows in the Gundam canon, plus dozens of mangas, movies, novels, and games. It's a pretty indepth series.

wow 29 different shows? I don't think even Transformers has that many. Though it has been around for 30ish years. How long has Gundam been around?

[25K Now!]

April 7, 1979 was the air date of Mobile Suit Gundam's first episode.

[Prowl Nightwolf]

Well that settles that... Gundam has staying power...

[IcarusBen]

Himitsu Sentai Gorenger first aired April 5th, 1975. Sentai beats Gundam.

 

EDIT: Kamen Rider began in 1971. Top that.

Edited April 3, 2015 by IcarusBen

[25K Now!]

It's a Japanese icon.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Umi Tryon

[Let's Henshin!]

Godzilla was 1954. 

 

I just beat it.

 

And we're so off topic now.

[25K Now!]

All this toku love, but nobody cares for Ultraman.

 

Truly being a fan is suffering.

 

Anyway, Gundam RPGs.

 

7th Space War?