Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Welcome to BZPower!

Hi there, while we hope you enjoy browsing through the site, there's a lot more you can do if you register. The process is easy and you can use your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account to make it even faster. Some perks of joining include:
  • Create your own topics, participate in existing discussions, and vote in polls
  • Show off your creations, stories, art, music, and movies and play member and staff-run games
  • Enter contests to win free LEGO sets and other prizes, and vote to decide the winners
  • Participate in raffles, including exclusive raffles for new members, and win free LEGO sets
  • Send private messages to other members
  • Organize with other members to attend or send your MOCs to LEGO fan events all over the world
  • Much, much more!
Enjoy your visit!

Posted Image


Photo

The Official OTC TBRPG Planning and Organization Topic


  • Please log in to reply
6429 replies to this topic

#6121 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:38 PM

The numbers I'm seeing are maybe okay estimations for a small city state in the Fertile Crescent. Ancient armies could get rather large.


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6122 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

Lloyd: the White Wolf
  • Members
  • Toa Metru United

  • 8,522 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:38 PM

@ Tyler: See, my problem with that is that I'm planning this to be an entirely different version of the assassination. Otherwise the players could just go look up stuff in the actual Warren Commission report and use that. XD

 

Besides, the real-life version was kinda...surprisingly mundane.

 

:w:


  • 0

#6123 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

Engineer Alexandra Humva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 2,681 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:42 PM

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]Indeed they could, but they'd never stick around. Rome was odd in the fashion that they had large professional armies in a day and age when that really wasn't heard of. Levies ruled... until even modern times. The Greeks practiced some in the area of professional armies but never much.[/font]

 

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]When you consider the vast majority of your population is engaged in farming, you really can't even afford to have proper professional armies. [/font]


  • 0

voidstars.png

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89

"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#6124 Online Parks and Rekt

Parks and Rekt
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • BZPRPG Staff and OTC RPG Judge

  • 11,611 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:43 PM

Ah, I think I see what you're talking about then. Are you still going to try and work with the same basic time period and setting? It would make sense - JFK was warned time and again that Dallas was going to be a hotbed of danger for him in the days before his death. Perhaps not a magic bullet on a crowded street but there was no better time and place than November in Texas.

 

-Tyler


  • 0

i'm back boy

for real

i'm that boy

for real

i got hits baby

you just a bat boy

 for real

 


#6125 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:44 PM

Let me put it this way, one of the more credible accounts of Estruscan losses during their war with the city of Rome was around 8,000. 

 

And do not even get me started on the Persians. The numbers here are small. Very small. If these were city states at the start, they would very much make sense. If we're starting with Kingdoms/mini-empires/whatever, they don't make much sense.


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6126 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

Engineer Alexandra Humva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 2,681 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:47 PM

We aren't mini-empires though. We have one, two major cities to our name and the associated hamlets. 

 

You're also assuming absurdly low EP counts; 20 EP for 20,000 levies is not a bad deal at all.


  • 0

voidstars.png

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89

"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#6127 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

Lloyd: the White Wolf
  • Members
  • Toa Metru United

  • 8,522 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:48 PM

Ah, I think I see what you're talking about then. Are you still going to try and work with the same basic time period and setting? It would make sense - JFK was warned time and again that Dallas was going to be a hotbed of danger for him in the days before his death. Perhaps not a magic bullet on a crowded street but there was no better time and place than November in Texas.

 

-Tyler

That would probably work fine. I can do that. :)

 

:w:


  • 0

#6128 Offline I Am Ultron Six

I Am Ultron Six
  • Members
  • Senior OTC RPG Judge

  • 14,666 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:50 PM

There's not really much of a backstory is there Humva? You just say "Yup here's some land. Some of it oozes magic". Give it some history, some life, some meat on the bones. Because otherwise it just a list of mechanics and info dumps, which isn't particularly appealing by itself


Edited by More Fierce Than Fire, Nov 25 2013 - 05:51 PM.

  • 0

I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.


#6129 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:51 PM

The examples were low. I was forced to assume that was the norm.

 

Besides, in 480 CE the Persian Empire ruled over this area:

 

Posted Image

Which contained roughly 50 million people is, I think, roughly the size of the game map. 

 

But perhaps the game map is more lightly populated, it'd make sense. So let us assume, heck, I'll be generous and say an overall population of thirteen million. With the examples presented, if one wished to raise a professional army out of one hundred thousand people (a small part of the overall lands population) one would only be able to muster, based on the examples....four hundred soldiers before the upkeep breaks the bank. Which is kind of absurd.


Edited by Basilisk, Nov 25 2013 - 06:00 PM.

  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6130 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

Engineer Alexandra Humva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 2,681 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:54 PM

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]None of the prior RTS RPGs had much in the way of backstory, Power. IL was an excuse plot, Starscape had nothing, Strith was "hey alt reality 80s", Starscape II was "hey universe," Spirits and Men was the only one with any real backstory, primarily because it was driven by that.[/font]

 

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]I'll get to the army figures later when I figure something out.[/font]

 

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]Also, Basilisk, a professional army of that size today is not precisely the most common. Even the economic powerhouse that is Germany only has 182,000 professional troops active.[/font]


Edited by Strategist Alex Humva, Nov 25 2013 - 05:57 PM.

  • 0

voidstars.png

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89

"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#6131 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 05:58 PM

These pages may be useful:

 

http://en.wikipedia..../Persian_empire

http://en.wikipedia....age_(c._149_BC)

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Punic_Wars

http://en.wikipedia....n-Etruscan_Wars

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Zhou_Dynasty

http://en.wikipedia....Parthian_Empire

http://en.wikipedia....n_Empire#Empire


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6132 Offline I Am Ultron Six

I Am Ultron Six
  • Members
  • Senior OTC RPG Judge

  • 14,666 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:00 PM

Those all had ready made audiences though, the same RTS RPG crowd. But if the fates of Starscape.2 and Spirits and Men indicates anything its that you can't rely on just having that crowd around, because they're either busy or not interested. You need something to make the RPG appeal to new people, find a new audience. Complacency will be your doom Humva, your dooooooooooooooooom!


  • 0

I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.


#6133 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:01 PM

Also, Basilisk, a professional army of that size today is not precisely the most common. Even the economic powerhouse that is Germany only has 182,000 professional troops active.

 

 

Germany doesn't have to worry about France deciding it'd like that land. And it'd like it right now. Not anymore at least.

 

Or dragons. Germany does not have to worry about dragons, or abominations summoned by magic.

 

EDIT: And that one hundred thousand meant the total population of a hypothetical player kingdom. Only being able to raise four hundred professional soldiers out of a nation with that population is rather...pathetic. One hundred thousand is a rough estimation (and a generous one) that a viable power would need in that day and age, heck it might be low based on some of the ancient population numbers I've seen.


Edited by Basilisk, Nov 25 2013 - 06:04 PM.

  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6134 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

Engineer Alexandra Humva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 2,681 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:07 PM

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]I believe the situation can be resolved by multiplying by ten; you know hire professional soldiers in groups of 1,000 and levies in groups of 10,000. The Persian Standing Army, before their first expansion that took Babylon, was around 10,000. Since we will be smaller than Persia even then, I'll reduce the EP upkeep to 4 EP/cycle. This means that 5,000 men, the same as a Roman Legion after you took away all the hanger-ons, will cost you 20 EP monthly to upkeep. While the height of Rome had 26 Legions under her command, one legion alone was bad news, and typically enough to cause people to run in a panic.[/font]

 

[font="'courier new', courier, monospace;"]And of course you can do what every civilization, even the Romans, did: grab farmers, give them a spear, and tell them to get stabby stabby. Keep the professionals in charge to make sure they don't rout.[/font]


  • 0

voidstars.png

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89

"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#6135 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

Lloyd: the White Wolf
  • Members
  • Toa Metru United

  • 8,522 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:09 PM

You know, Basilisk, you keep mentioning the Persians and the Chinese and the Romans when the players, AFAIK, really are more comparable to Athens or Thebes.

 

:w:


  • 0

#6136 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:09 PM

That solves it quite nicely.

 

Oh and it turned out my estimation was.....low. As in Athens, small Greek regional power it was, had...well...

 

Look:

 

http://en.wikipedia....lassical_Athens

 

EDIT: Look at the population numbers for small old Athens Lloyd. It's larger then my estimation of one hundred thousand by....well, more then half.


Edited by Basilisk, Nov 25 2013 - 06:11 PM.

  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6137 Offline Ymper Trymon

Ymper Trymon
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 14 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:14 PM

If one pixel is 5 km, chances are none of those rivers are even going to be visible on that map - yes, the River Nile is 7.5 km at its widest point, but for most of its course? 1-2 km in width. The Amazon is consistently somewhat wider, yes, but it's not really a typical river. Best to do away with the (somewhat poorly-drawn on an otherwise nice map) rivers at this scale.


  • 0

Gentlemen, fooling you once with this trick was an honor. Twice was a privilege. It's been a pleasure.

I am most definitely a mad man with a blog.


#6138 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:16 PM

We need to know where they are, even if they aren't really that big. Look at a real map; they'll show the rivers even if the rivers are way too small to appear on that scale.


  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6139 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

Lloyd: the White Wolf
  • Members
  • Toa Metru United

  • 8,522 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:17 PM

I know I'm missing something. The earliest era (which presumably one would consult for "small, old Athens" on that page mentions that all of Greece fielded an army of 7K.

 

:w:


  • 0

#6140 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:17 PM

Wow. The lowball estimate for the Persian forces arrayed against Greece was....100,000.

 

The high one is the entire population of Athens.

 

Note to self: If you ever build that time machine, do not screw with the Persians.

 

EDIT: That was the holding force at Thermopylae actually Lloyd.


Edited by Basilisk, Nov 25 2013 - 06:20 PM.

  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6141 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

Engineer Alexandra Humva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 2,681 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:22 PM

Keep in mind that the Persian force of one hundred thousand was less professional army and more levies trained enough to go stabby stabby. When I talk professional armies I mean soldiers that stay soldiers, their job is killing people, they don't go back home afterwards. Most of the Persians who didn't die in that Zerg rush returned home and went back to whatever they were doing, with a couple dozen thousand hanging around as Persia's standing army.


  • 0

voidstars.png

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89

"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#6142 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:23 PM

Basilisk, notice how that's Persia you're talking about.

 

We are not Persia.


  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6143 Offline Lloyd: the White Wolf

Lloyd: the White Wolf
  • Members
  • Toa Metru United

  • 8,522 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:24 PM

@ Basilisk: I know it was. I can read, at least. :P But do you see my point? The whole Hellenic league fielded an army. This is multiple city-states we're talking about, presumably roughly the size of the ones the players will be runing.

 

All of them, together, fielded 7,000 men.

 

:w:


  • 0

#6144 Offline Ymper Trymon

Ymper Trymon
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 14 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:27 PM

Funny, this world map looks pretty river-free. I do agree that knowing where the rivers are is useful, but a map for that would be drawn more like this.

 

Anyway, I'm discussing the rivers issue with Alex via PM at the moment.


  • 0

Gentlemen, fooling you once with this trick was an honor. Twice was a privilege. It's been a pleasure.

I am most definitely a mad man with a blog.


#6145 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:31 PM

Basilisk, notice how that's Persia you're talking about.

 

We are not Persia.

 

Xom, you noticed the population of Athens link I posted yes? You read all the links I posted yes?

 

I fully realize that we are not Persia. I think I made that clear with the population estimate I posted for a kingdom in this game, an estimate that turned out low when I checked out Athens, since someone else directly compared us to Athens and, I notably, did not say we were not Athens. I would think that would be clear. I was expressing how impressed I was with Perisa. 

@ Basilisk: I know it was. I can read, at least. :P But do you see my point? The whole Hellenic league fielded an army. This is multiple city-states we're talking about, presumably roughly the size of the ones the players will be runing.
 
All of them, together, fielded 7,000 men.
 

 

 

 

As a holding force. To buy time. They were not expected to win. At all.

 

The idea that a state of 250,000 men and women can only field four hundred professional soldiers is patently absurd. Which is why I stated this. Armor does not cost that much, weapons do not cost that much. Want proof?

 

http://en.wikipedia....ttle_of_Salamis

 

The greeks depending on who you believe, fielded a navy about half the size of the Persian Navy. Ships, in general, cost more then a shield and a sword. Alot more. Being large constructs with massive amounts of labor involved.


Edited by Basilisk, Nov 25 2013 - 06:36 PM.

  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6146 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:34 PM

Rover, we're thinking more on this scale. That's not the whole world on that map.


  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6147 Offline Silvan Haven

Silvan Haven
  • Members
  • Emerging Fluidic Master

  • 1,272 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:35 PM

I think Alex covered the size issue about half a page up.


  • 0

"I serve the weak. I serve the helpless. I am their sword and their shield. If you want to strike at them, you must go through me, and I am not so easily moved."


#6148 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:35 PM

Furthermore:

 

http://en.wikipedia....tle_of_Marathon

 

Notice how it says ten thousand Athenians. Not Greeks.


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6149 Offline I Am Ultron Six

I Am Ultron Six
  • Members
  • Senior OTC RPG Judge

  • 14,666 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:36 PM

Just to point out that using the numbers for Thermopylae as an estimate for anything is probably a bad idea. That was a vanguard, remember, thrown together quickly so they could buy time for a proper army to be mustered later down the line. Plataea would be a better comparison, where the whole of Greece gathered some 80,000 men.

If you want what just one state can do, try Marathon. Athenians got themselves about 10,000 there I think

 

EDIT: Bah, ninja'd. You win this round Basilisk!


Edited by More Fierce Than Fire, Nov 25 2013 - 06:36 PM.

  • 0

I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.


#6150 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:37 PM

Yes, Basilisk. And they were sculptors, potters, and the like.

 

But then, SPARTANS, WHAT IS YOUR PROFESSION?

 

I think we settled on up to 5,000 as a reasonable size for a professional army


Edited by Xomeron, Nov 25 2013 - 06:38 PM.

  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6151 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:39 PM

http://en.wikipedia....ttle_of_Plataea

 

Now this one is really interesting.

 

Gah! Adder beat me to it!

 

Frankly, the armeis we are dealing with are larger then the numbers some are defending. Much bigger. Unless of course you think the famous Greek Phalanx, a powerful force to be reckoned with, should be counted as a "poor, bad, levy".


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6152 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:40 PM

Were they soldiers for a living?

 

No?Then they're a levy.


  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6153 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:41 PM

The RPG description said that levies are poor, bad soldiers. Everything the famous Greek Phalanx was most assuredly not.

 

What they did before they were soldiers is unimportant, how effective they are in battle is. Based on the rules presented in the RPG.


Edited by Basilisk, Nov 25 2013 - 06:42 PM.

  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6154 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:43 PM

The RPG also stated how you could upgrade levies with extra equipment and training.


  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6155 Offline Ymper Trymon

Ymper Trymon
  • Members
  • Inhabitant

  • 14 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:44 PM

It's still a problematic map design for the rivers - too wide on the scale shown, for one - while the map of Greece you showed gives the impression that each river is on the order of a mile or less in width, the map we've been given for this game leads one to the conclusion that each river on the map is equivalent in width to the Amazon - no tributaries, no small rivers, just bloody big rivers all the time.


  • 0

Gentlemen, fooling you once with this trick was an honor. Twice was a privilege. It's been a pleasure.

I am most definitely a mad man with a blog.


#6156 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:45 PM

The RPG also stated how you could upgrade levies with extra equipment and training.

 

Irrelevent.

 

Professional soldiers (1,000) cost 1 EP to train and 4 EP/cycle to upkeep. They are good.
Farmers-made-soldiers (10,000) cost 1 EP to train and 1 EP/cycle to upkeep. They are bad.

 

 

In the end, it doesn't matter. Making more swords or shields or armor doesn't change that final equation all that much does it? I think you are assuming quite alot Xom, and blaming me for misunderstanding the rules despite, actually reading them and not coming to a your conclusion on it, despite the rules out and out stating levies are bad.


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6157 Offline Xomeron

Xomeron
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Attacks!

  • 2,617 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:48 PM

I think you're overestimating the power of the Phalanx. I doubt they were much better than any other man you hand a spear and shield and call a soldier.


  • 0

That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

-Rover

"A memo was sent to Astaria asking if it would at all be possible to make a flying goat."
"The Astarians responded that making a goat fly would be trivial; making it land safely would be another matter entirely."

#6158 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

Engineer Alexandra Humva
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 2,681 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:49 PM

I am upgrading levies from "bad" to "meh."


  • 0

voidstars.png

1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89

"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#6159 Offline Basilisk

Basilisk
  • Members
  • OTC RPG Judge

  • 1,160 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:49 PM

I think you're overestimating the power of the Phalanx. I doubt they were much better than any other man you hand a spear and shield and call a soldier.

 

I think you need a refresher on world history. I've given examples, sources, you've given vague assertions.


  • 0
"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#6160 Offline I Am Ultron Six

I Am Ultron Six
  • Members
  • Senior OTC RPG Judge

  • 14,666 posts
  •  

Posted Nov 25 2013 - 06:50 PM

Wait, does this mean if we establish our nation as demanding you perform military service before you count as a citizen we can basically have our levies be professional soldiers?


  • 0

I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.





0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users