The Official OTC TBRPG Planning and Organization Topic

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

skyrim and, to a lesser extent, carrion stair make me want a generic sword and spell RPG. carrion is a little restrictive for my tastes, but i guess it has a monopoly on the genre for the time being.

I can't speak for the other judges, but I'd allow an open-world sword-and-sorcery RPG alongside Carrion Stair. I'd see something like Struggles of Kaen as different enough from the more dungeon-crawler-esque Carrion Stairs to allow them both

[Alex Humva]

Why did Kaen fail again? It's been a while; was it simply because life was strangling Exo too much or did people lose interest in it? As it seemed rather popular and I'd of played in it more if not for the fact life had a death grip on me even back then.As I'd rather like to see a Kaen like RPG surface again; it was fun, having my explorer dude and writing the death of an ancient civilization.

[Kothra]

Kaen failed because E-Fat disappeared.I would love to see a similar RPG arise, so I can use the original Kaen Karin foxgirl.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Revolutionary Saint Kothra

[Trevsky]

Kaen did not fail because Exo left. He left around page 20, the RPG lasted to be around 60 pages long because Spink and GG took the position of staff. People lost interest, simple as that.and another Kaen-like RPG would indeed be awesome

[Archer Vonn]

"forensic evidence isn't flashy or anything michael bay can include in a movie.">Implying that Michael Bay makes interesting movies>Implying that Michael Bay made a movie worth watching>Implying that Michael Bay can be used as quality standard for anythingPersonally, forensic study can be VERY exciting. It's really just detective stories that replace trenchcoats and fedoras with technobabble.

who said anything about quality standard?come on, this isn't too difficult.

[Lara White]

Michael Bay is a laughingstock of quality movemaking for anything except EXPLOSIONS! And I really have to say that from what I've seen of you, you're not a devil's advocate, you're a troll. A devil's advocate knows when his point has been defeated and does the whole gig to improve whatever he's taking a position against. Take it from a guy whose been doing it for a long time.I can't say anything to a generic fantasy RPG, but I'm a little iffy about the police-state/rebellion idea. Seems rather boring and DOA to me. Maybe if you gave each side different things you could do aside from just arresting/sabotaging each other?

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

For my own part, I would advise that you take away a clear line between good and evil. Make it clear that the people on both sides are people, and neither side is fundamentally good or bad. Sure, in history, there have been people who really were just awful, and some of those got into positions of power and got people to do awful things, but not every situation is like that, and I think an RPG might be better - or at least the characterization could be better - if we put everyone in something other than a clear-cut dichotomy of good vs. evil.

[Archer Vonn]

Michael Bay is a laughingstock of quality movemaking for anything except EXPLOSIONS!

that was my point. all bay knows hows to do is use gimmicks and stupid things to sell movies. i said no forensic evidence would ever find its way into a michael bay movie, implying that forensic evidence isn't gimmicky or stupid, and mr. shadows decided that meant that i loved michael bay and wanted everything to be like him.in any case, i'll admit i was trolling the heck out of him. Edited November 27, 2011 by ~JC~

[Lara White]

^ You know that trolling is a punishable offense, yes? It's in the rules.

For my own part, I would advise that you take away a clear line between good and evil. Make it clear that the people on both sides are people, and neither side is fundamentally good or bad. Sure, in history, there have been people who really were just awful, and some of those got into positions of power and got people to do awful things, but not every situation is like that, and I think an RPG might be better - or at least the characterization could be better - if we put everyone in something other than a clear-cut dichotomy of good vs. evil.

I figured that would come naturally with the players, but I suppose the GM could play it up.

[Archer Vonn]

in that case, i wasn't trolling at all.gray morality is something every writer who was awake during TBRPing 101 should incorporate into their RPGs. it's been one of the biggest things ive been focusing on while writing the fallout rpg (oh dear lord so many factions ._.)

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Yes, but you still see factions that seem to be evil just because they want to be evil. I remember one spy-based RPG that was actually rather good except for the fact that one of the factions was pretty much called the League of Evil or something like that, and they themselves were a subset of a group whose basic goal was "cause war because that seems like the evil thing to do right now."Gray-morality should be common, but its opposite is common enough that I feel the need to remind people of it.

[Archer Vonn]

in which case, i was seconding you.

[Lara White]

Most people don't think about gray/gray morality because most stories these days are black/white, and they're telling a story. However, I personally find that gray/gray is more engaging to the reader, and it lets me to all the espionage stuff I want to do but can never find anyone else interested in doing.

[Xomeron]

Alex and I were actually discussing this sort of thing last night. My idea is an RPG set in the vaunted past ages of humanity, before recorded history. Basic summary:Humans are on the rise out of barbarism, taking their first steps towards civilization. But many dangers are along the road ahead; Outlings prey on them, taking their children for Changelings and poisoning food supplies, if not slaughtering them outright. Vampires and Werewolves stalk the shadowy night, spreading their plagues throughout humanity. Dark, devilish horrors drift down from Thag The Accursed, challenging mankind's very sentience with their unworldly forms. Within humanity, dark sorcerors fall to the powers of Set, setting aside their souls for power, pledging themselves to the Dark God. From without the Kingdom of Aquilonia, Atlantean Barbarians and Cimmerean Hordes invade from the borders. Only a few strong men and women have a chance to save the Kingdom. This is their tale.Premise: Conan The Barbarian meets Warhammer Fantasy Battle meets The Cthulu Mythos(which Conan is technically a part of, so whatever.)

Edited November 27, 2011 by King Of Shadows

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Two things.1. Wrong kind of grey mortality. We're talking no-one is actually good or evil, not everyone is evil.2. You've already got an RPG, and a nice one at that. I'm pretty sure there's a rule somewhere saying that you can only gratuitously name-drop other people's creations (coughcoughansiblecoughsplutter) in one RPG of your own creation at a time.

[Xomeron]

1: Huh. Well, I wrote that one from the perspective of the human kingdom, so it cast everyone else in an evil light.2: You actually recognize what I took Outlings from?Also, I know the RPG limit, but Starscape's a strategy game; it has to end eventually.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

1. That better not be all the fluff material. Better have an explanation of things from old Thaggy's point of view, at the very least.2. Nope, I'm just a good guesser.And on the third note, bah. It's a closed-system military-political complex. The only reason it has a definite finite point is because you're almost-subtly pushing it there.

[Xomeron]

1: It's most of what I have so far2: That you are. Poul Anderson's "The Queen of Air And Darkness"(not the T.M. White book of the same name)3: Someone has to conquer the galaxy eventually.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

1. Roger that, looking forward to Thag going on about how he's really basically being the King Radical of the mind.2. Thought so. Care to give it a shifty so it's at least half yours?3. By that logic, someone has to conquer the world eventually. Thousands of years, no signs of it yet. Guarantee you, if IL Mk. III happens, it'll have some tweaks.

[Xomeron]

1: Thag The Accursed is a place, not a person. Specifically, it's a very very Eldritch land where maddening creatures that challenge humanity's very sanity to look upon.2: Possibly. But I love the term "Outling" so much. Most of the shift is in the fluff; I'm making them up a lot, Poul just had them be fairies.3: I suppose. Let's not get into this.

Edited November 27, 2011 by King Of Shadows

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

1. Well, who's to say the head honcho over at Thag isn't named Thag? Thaggity thaggity thag. It's a nice name.2. Alrighty then.3. See #2.

[Archer Vonn]

i'm waiting for a clincher that isn't a cool name. seems kinda like 'ok so theres this bad thing, then this, then this, buuuuuut' and never finishes its sentence.

Edited November 27, 2011 by ~JC~

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Bah, you've heard, what? Five lines of the fluff? Bit early to judge whether it sounds generic or not.That being said, thag thag thaggity thag thagness.

[Archer Vonn]

call it a hunch.

[Xomeron]

Thag thag, thag thag, if thag thag, then thag thag thag.All right, I'll see about writing up the rest of the fluff.EDIT: Never mind all this, it'll work way better as a Tabletop RPG setting.

Edited November 27, 2011 by King Of Shadows

[Comment Expired]

Plenty of stories these days use grey morality, it's just that the way people construct stories there's normally an ultimate goal, and since the story is built around a protagonist, we see things from their perpective, and as a result even subconciously we will consider their goal to be the right one for the story to be fulfilled.Also Michael Bay movies are fun. I liked The Island.

[Lara White]

If everyone is evil, then it's not gray/gray, it's black/black and causes Darkness Induced Audience Apathy. It's the reason why Commie Space Nazi Aliens are the "good guys" of Wh40K.As for this, it sounds interesting, but the profuseness of things that will drive men mad by looking at them raises an uncomfortable point--if we can't beat them when we have giant supersoldiers and ships kilometers long, as well as magic, what're we going to do with swords and lion skins? They can't be insta-maddening to look at or humanity's doomed. One of the important things about an RPG is that all player-joinable sides should be somewhat equally matched.As a side note, would anyone play an RPG where you play as a spy?

[Xomeron]

GentlemenWe had a spyish RPG before the Downtime, but it was *really* shoddily done, to be totally honest.

[Alex Humva]

I think it's downfall was the arbitrary restrictions put on gadgets, and the generic classes from the various intelligence agencies.Yes, the KGB has a reputation of being bad***, but that doesn't mean they can't have just as fancy gadgets as MI6 or the CIA. And just because Bond was an MI6 member doesn't mean MI6 has all the best tech.IMO, it took awesome spy tropes but didn't execute it well enough. Not to mention I think it had the ability to be a villain, which instantly breaks the game; as Bond copies rely on their ability to free themselves while the villain rambles. Me, I just drop the suspected spy in hydrochloric acid and be done with it. A nasty way to die for sure, but it makes sure the spy doesn't survive. Shark tanks are great room pieces but horribly ineffective for killing superspies.I say if a spy RPG comes back we have real world stuff, not TV cliches. As in, when the CIA operative finds the villains hide out, s/he calls in the A-10 squad and they level the place.

[Kothra]

I say if a spy RPG comes back we have real world stuff, not TV cliches. As in, when the CIA operative finds the villains hide out, s/he calls in the A-10 squad and they level the place.

I would say to do this, but I can't see much of it actually fitting into an RP scenario, unless there's a lot of gun action and other RP stuff as well.And by the way, I do hope that's somewhere unpopulated you're calling in those A-10s for, otherwise you'll have some nasty collateral damage. Edited November 27, 2011 by Revolutionary Saint Kothra

[Alex Humva]

While a GAU cannon isn't the most accurate, unless the villain is hiding directly in the middle of a heavily populated place -which admittedly would be smart to avoid just that, it'd have its share of problems-, I'm pretty sure the cannon will be able to level a building or two without too much collateral damage.Of course, then comes the problem that when you can't call in the A-10s, you don't send your spy in, you send in the bloody Navy SEALs. Spying just isn't what Bond does; spying is being a secretary for six months until finding a scrap of information. Rarely is there Bond style action; that sort of thing is left to the people who are actual soldiers.So yeah, thinking about it, a spy RPG would have to play off of a Bond like universe, where villains are stupid and spies are super heroes. This means not allowing someone to play as a villain as, like I said before, I'd be a villain that drops spies into vats of acid, not taunt them.

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

There's always playing it like an episode of Spooks, which is like Bond but with a load of extra grit smeared in

[Archer Vonn]

if we're not doing mission impossible it'll just be boring. call me crazy but i don't see doing recon and calling it in much fun.

[Hanako Herupa]

Let's not talk about how awful Spy Game was. Let's bury that awful RPG and be done with it.The problem was that the rules were made to make each group unique but people eventually tried to find loops holes and knowing Xom and some of you, you do it cause you think it's cute. Ultimately it was broken from the beginning thanks to the Villain class. Though I'm glad I tried something different and failed, rather than just do the same thing over and over again.The villain class was a game breaker because the benefits heavily outweighed whatever negatives it had, which was time, money, and building the doomsday device. The RPG hangs shamefully in my hall of shame.Frankly I'm getting sick of realism in my video games and my RPGs. Rules are need but don't take imagination, tied it to a chair and beat it with a tire iron.To best honest I haven't seen an RPG here in awhile that I want to roleplay and that's because I feel like we're in a cycle of same old stuff on here.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Honestly, I don't see a problem with having competent villains.

[Comment Expired]

If everyone is evil, then it's not gray/gray, it's black/black and causes Darkness Induced Audience Apathy. It's the reason why Commie Space Nazi Aliens are the "good guys" of Wh40K.

The Tau aren't the good guys. 40K is shades of grey because everyone is fighting for survival, except Chaos because Chaos is straight-up sacrifice virgins and nuke innocents evil.Also nothing Nazi about the Tau.

[Xomeron]

Closest thing 40k has to good guys are members of the Guard like Ciaphus Cain, a few Space Marine Chapters, and those few Eldar who fight for the extermination of Chaos rather than humanity.I'd really love to see a Dark Eldar hero. Those guys are part of the inspiration for a race I'm designing.

[Kothra]

Just gonna say I'd rather play a Kaen-type RPG than any other of these ideas flying around.

[Lara White]

@ Spy RPG discussion: I would be willing to help someone concoct a game that could provide the intellectual/Mafia-esque side of the spy game to satisfy the people like me who much prefer to play spies realistically, while also catering to those who enjoy Assassin's Creed-esque action, since I think that'd fit the best to a spy game. Of course, one would have to impose very real penalties on those who get caught...which usually means being tortured/interrogated, depending on who caught you, and then traded for a spy that was caught by your side. Killing an agent is usually considered a no-no and very good grounds for retaliation. Killing sources that they're using (the ones people think of when they say "spy") is more acceptable, although when the FBI catches a spy like Aldrich Ames, they'll typically arrest them. The KGB, however, would have no problem unpersoning someone.

[Fighty]

Hey guys, could you give me a little feedback on my RPG idea? It's a generic-fantasy RPG and it's very, very basic at this point. I need to work on locations, plot, factions and races. Below is a brief introduction to the RPG world (Draumur) and the concept of magic as it operates in the game.

"In the days before days, when the world was young, the mighty deity Král deigned to give us life. He gathered the dust of the earth and the mist of the air, the leaf of the tree and the spark of the fire. These four he consecrated and made one, forming an impossible union of peace and war, anger and love. We were like him in many ways; wild, untamed, ruggedly beautiful - but dangerous, uninhibited, and selfish.Král was not alone among the gods; for there was another who breathed life into the world that we call home. His name was Delmegos, and he crafted the dwarves. They were not like us; while we were wild and complex, they were constrained and simple. They were bound by oaths and laws that we balked at, but their power was undeniable. Even while wars and disunion strained our people, the dwarves were blessed with peace and unity.Among the station of the gods, there was one who hated Delmegos and the industrious race that he had created. His name was Mláďata, and he was a bitter, evil soul. To spite Delmegos, he made the Rhy'vitin. He formed them from the mire of the earth and the salt of the sea, and imbued in them his own hate for Delmegos. The Rhy'vitin burrowed in the earth and warred with the dwarves, bringing them from peace to everlasting war.Then there was the jester, Sasek, who created the H'jinn. These feral beasts were made from the sands of the desert and the gems of the caves, and they were fierce and cunning. They had no home and they roamed freely, with no fealty to country, but rather to self.The warrior-god Martel saw the disunion and the chaos that was wrought on the land, and made the Al'tasori as guardians. They, birthed from the breath of the wind and the light of the sun, flew over our land and watched it with the eyes of eagles. But, like Martel, they were stricken with pride, and rarely descended to help those in need. So our world continued in war and strife.Another, unknown entity came from the east and brought with him the race of man. Our gods, fearing him, killed him, and scattered his race across the the world. These 'men' were strong in spirit and resilient of mind, and our gods could not destroy them. So the gods let mankind be, fearing that one day the unknown being would return to have its revenge.Then, sweet sorrow; our race, heaving with the strain of our bloodshed, splintered, and divided into three: the Wood-Elves of the West, the Nocni of the East, and the Mythirium of the North.Then, our gods fell silent and heard not our prayers. They were taken by the Sleep; what it is, we know not.So, here we remain; we, the eight races of Draumur, waiting for our gods to awaken and restore peace to our broken world."

- The elf historian Molund, History of the World

Magic"How curious, to be able to kill with one's mind... [it] makes stupidity even more dangerous." - Eiswheit the ConquerorThere exists, in each soul, an untempered energy that can connect with and alter the material world, simply through thought. Like the gods before them, every sentient inhabitant of Draumur can affect reality with this energy - a practice commonly known as "magic." Magic, like muscles, must be exercised and toned, else it is utterly useless. Every person starts out with no magical ability whatsoever, but if they work at it, the can become a competent amateur. Increased practice can make one an impressive magician or a fearsome wizard.There are, naturally, many different types of magic, but these types are relegated to each race, dictated by the forethought of the gods that made them. Below is a list of every race in Draumur, the magical abilities they possess, as well as the time required to advance in each magical ability:Note - you may start out with only one of your race's magics, and you must become a veteran of all your current magics before you undertake another one. Upon undertaking a new magic, you must wait three days before its amateur status applies to you.

Wood-Elves

Speed

• [*]

Amateur: At the amateur level, the Wood-Elves' magic of Speed enables them to run with preternatural speed and endurance, comparable to a race-horse. Time Needed to Advance: Three days.[*]Intermediate: In addition to their unnaturally fast running speed and endurance, Wood-Elves also become quicker and more durable in their reflexes as well, giving them a marked advantage in hand-to-hand combat. Time Needed to Advance: One week.[*]Veteran: Upon becoming veterans of this magic, Wood-Elves can run at great speeds that can be matched only by the wind. Their endurance is also significantly increased. These improvements also apply to their reflexes. Time Needed to Advance: 11 days.[*]Master: This magic, once mastered, allows a Wood-Elf that uses it to run across water and even up vertical surfaces.

Plant Control

• [*]

Amateur: At this level, Wood-Elves who wield the magic of "plant control" are capable of manipulating existing plants, either by physically manipulating their shape or by speeding or stalling their growth. Time Needed to Advance: Three days.[*]Intermediate: Once they become a little more skilled, Wood-Elves that use this magic are able to detect the location of any plants with their minds and are resistant to almost every poison. Time Needed to Advance: One week.[*]Veteran: Upon reaching this level, a Wood-Elf is capable of creating plants at will, and of destroying existing plants with his/her mind. Time Needed to Advance: 11 days.[*]Master: Plant control, once mastered, enables a Wood-Elf to merge directly with a plant of his choice, regardless of size. Wood-Elves, while merged, cannot affect the plant they are merged with, nor can they affect any other plants.

Stealth

• [*]

Amateur: At the novice level, this "magic" allows Wood-Elves to move with complete and utter silence. Time Needed to Advance: Three days.[*]Intermediate: Upon increased practice, Wood-Elves with this magic are able to briefly halt all bodily functions, feigning death. They are also able to project their thoughts telepathically, communicating with no need for spoken words. Time Needed to Advance: One week.[*]Veteran: Wood-Elves at this level can project silence onto, at most, three other persons, rendering them noiseless - unable to scream for help. Time Needed to Advance: 11 days.[*]Master: Masters of this magic are capable of disguising themselves as a different person for a period that can last from 20 minutes to a half-hour.