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Expanded Multiverse Discussion Topic

Aethion EM Bionicle

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411 replies to this topic

#401 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Jan 31 2014 - 06:15 PM

I've recently started getting a better understanding of why some EM elements have been made elements, sand most specifically, and I'm starting to wonder why some other EM elements were made official elements of the Expanded Multiverse Canon.

Those in question have been Virus, Tar, and Ghost.

I'm curious as to whether Ghost and Virus were inspired by the MU counterparts of Makuta viruses and the ethereal energy projection made by...the mask Matoro wore who's name escapes me...and where you all got tar from in the first place.

 

Of the three you mentioned, Tar is actually the least questionable for me. Ghost is not based on the Iden, but on "ectoplasma", in the ghostly-material sense. There's some explanation further up on this page I believe. Virus is sort of based on Makuta viruses, but I don't think it's as powerful. Tar, on the other hand, is a substance, just like stone or air, and works a lot better as an element than, say, psionics (sorry, pet peeve :P).  


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"So I'm TL now?"
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#402 Offline Loading...

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Posted Jan 31 2014 - 07:00 PM

Of the three you mentioned, Tar is actually the least questionable for me. Ghost is not based on the Iden, but on "ectoplasma", in the ghostly-material sense. There's some explanation further up on this page I believe. Virus is sort of based on Makuta viruses, but I don't think it's as powerful. Tar, on the other hand, is a substance, just like stone or air, and works a lot better as an element than, say, psionics (sorry, pet peeve :P).  

 

I was just thinking that instead of saying that Ectoplasm simply exists without any proof that it had beginnings in the original Bionicle universe, maybe it is based on whatever energy the Iden may use to project the spirit of its user. That way, there is some reasoning behind the origin of the Ghost element outside of "just because it would be cool for it to exist".

 

Also, I believe Psionics to be a VERY useful and natural element. I consider it (based on a theory someone wrote up a while ago) to simply be a "mental energy" used by all sapient beings in the Bionicle Universe in order to think and reason. By wielding this invisible energy outside of one's mind, a Toa of Psionics can envelope an object in the energy in order to move it, telekinetics, or connect the mental energies of beings so as to communicate through it silently, telepathy.


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#403 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 05:18 AM

I've recently started getting a better understanding of why some EM elements have been made elements, sand most specifically, and I'm starting to wonder why some other EM elements were made official elements of the Expanded Multiverse Canon.

Those in question have been Virus, Tar, and Ghost.

I'm curious as to whether Ghost and Virus were inspired by the MU counterparts of Makuta viruses and the ethereal energy projection made by...the mask Matoro wore who's name escapes me...and where you all got tar from in the first place.

If anyone else is wonder about Sand, he asked me via PM (was unsure if topic was place for this kind of thing, and I said it was); if anyone else would like to know my answer feel free to ask. Short answer is Vorox. :P

 

1) Tar is something that has always fascinated me as a natural substance. My interest in it probably (it's my memory :P) goes back to something in one of those movies, that I saw as a kid, with those animated dinosaurs (I forget the title, but you know, the famous ones... kid dinosaurs knock a rock off a ledge to stop T Rex... that one). There was a tar pit problem at one point that I somehow never forgot (I think it was in one of the many sequels... or something). It has a lot of story potential and oddly is rarely tapped into by most authors. And it certainly fits the Bionicle feel of elements, so when someone suggested it, to me it was just an instant fit.

 

2) Correct about virus; that was the exact inspiration.

 

3) I forget if the Kanohi Iden was actually brought up or not, but I would consider its EM version to be validly considered to be making use of it. Ghost is defined as intangible or semi-tangible energy structures. Matoro's "ghost" would appear like him to Hahli, so had structure, and was intangible. The semi-tangible and selective-intangibility stuff is more inspired by other fiction. Part of it though was a theory I had a long time ago, mentioned in my popular "Wacky Physics" topic, about self-stable energy structures actually being integral to just about every protodermic power (so it would make sense for them to also be able to manifest as a larger-scale power). Plus we wanted some other things that would make Psionics not seem so oddball; trying to fill in the list of imagineable and plausible energy powers consistent with that one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm curious as to whether Ghost and Virus were inspired by the MU counterparts of Makuta viruses and the ethereal energy projection made by...the mask Matoro wore who's name escapes me...and where you all got tar from in the first place.

 

I seem to recall I was the one who first suggested the element of Tar, mainly because I was utilizing it in my (terrible) fan fiction at the time. I'm not necessarily sure it's inclusion is justified either, but my understanding is that the EM has long adopted a policy of "pretty much anything that doesn't conflict official canon is also canon."  Plus, if you really want crazy (awesome), just take a look at the list of official combo elements. Seriously, you can shoot plants and rock at each other in the EM and instantly create a forest. I don't think anyone is seriously thinking about realism at this point. :P

 

BTW, Bonesiii, I just wanted to let you know that my current fiction project, which I am attempting to write with the goal of eventual publication, inadvertently has cribbed a few concepts from the Expanded Multiverse. Mainly, parabolic vision, and the idea of a tyrant who lives on a mountain of (space?) obsidian that has secret caves deep beneath its impenetrable exterior. I don't know if I had the EM on my mind at the time, but I can assure you that the inspiration was accidental. Is that okay with you? (I'm sure it probably is, but if not, did I mention I also have a character inspired by your living skeleton alter ego?)

Yeah, anything EM is fine to copy off of anyways; that's the whole idea. :P So a vague similarity would be especially okay. You could just chalk it up to a subconscious allusion anyways. :P

 

As for realism, that could open up a fascinating discussion about just "what is real?" :P Theoretically such a thing could happen, given the right technology. But let's not overthink it. :P The element policy is basically to try to be complete and consistent with the underlying (sometimes implied) rules that feed the list of canon elements, but which the canon is somewhat inconsistent about in order to have an intentionally small list that's easier for the casual fan to memorize.


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#404 Offline -Toa Lhikevikk-

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 03:01 PM

I always assumed Ghost was based off the Zamor spheres actually.


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#405 Offline Loading...

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 04:50 PM

Hey, one question on Virus. The BS01 page on Brotherhood viruses calls them "organisms".

 

So is elemental virus a living organism/many organisms together (sort of like how plant life is a "living element"), or is it a non-living form?

 

Actually...are elemental plants "alive" in the canon, in the sense that Matoran or Agori are alive? :???:


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#406 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 05:30 PM

I always assumed Ghost was based off the Zamor spheres actually.

You mean because they could turn intangible? I suppose there's a loose connection, but Zamor Spheres are made of hollow crystalline substance (matter, not energy), with a power (of intangibility on impact). You could argue that in the EM version, the element of Ghost may be involved in the power of intangibility even when applied to matter though.

 

Hey, one question on Virus. The BS01 page on Brotherhood viruses calls them "organisms".

 

So is elemental virus a living organism/many organisms together (sort of like how plant life is a "living element"), or is it a non-living form?

 

Actually...are elemental plants "alive" in the canon, in the sense that Matoran or Agori are alive? :???:

1) I consider it life, in the plants sense. (Generally with no mind, though just as there was a Morbuzakh, it's possible there could be living virus elementals.) In the EM it can be seen as the poetic term for microbes in general, like Iron is for metals, so some could be bacterial rather than true viruses, and thus as alive as cells of plants. Actual viruses in real life are considered to be in a range from that down to "semi-alive". Not sure what Makuta viruses would be on that scale, but I would say there has to be some life in them (so theoretically some "life energy").

 

2) Not in the same sense as people, no, but in (almost) the same sense as muscle tissue, yes. No brains (again, though, there can be odd exceptions in Bionicle, so this is just a generalization), but made of living cells.


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#407 Offline Loading...

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 05:44 PM

So, since Virus is based off Makuta viruses, what are the limits of what Toa of Virus can do? I mean, viruses appear to be capable of being used to create Rahi to inducing flight in those whom they infected...
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#408 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Feb 02 2014 - 07:00 PM

About the same as for canon Toa of Plants. And like all elements, the strength of effect goes up with experience, and with elemental energy spent. I imagine that the things Makuta could do with them would require a lot of experience; normal uses would be more like making a target feel weak (or feel stronger if you wanted to help them). Also I believe we stated that the viruses have to be short-lived, so (non-fatal) effects are temporary.


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#409 Offline SarracenianKaijin

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Posted Apr 15 2014 - 07:16 AM

If this is an "Expanded Multiverse", where all is open-source and stories belong to everyone, surely I can have follow other material rules not of your one design?


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Reach Heaven by Violence.

 

And while you are at it, see Bionicle characters as Magical Girls.


#410 Offline Geardirector

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Posted Apr 16 2014 - 02:56 PM

Pretty much. The point of the EM is to allow you to pick and choose.


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#411 Offline Yagami Kumi

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Posted Apr 16 2014 - 04:12 PM

Just something I noticed while scrolling through V3 of the guide- the currency is mentioned and detailed twice, an error?

 

Page 13 and 88 respectively.


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#412 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Apr 16 2014 - 10:04 PM

I felt that because it was a basic of the realm, it should be mentioned in that section, but also an object, in the other. If memory serves, one goes into a little more detail.


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