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Flash is Dying: Save MNOG and the Others


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Offline maletoaofwater

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Posted Jul 29 2017 - 09:05 PM

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but i figured that the people who contribute here would probably be best suited to this. If this is in the wrong place or i'm wrong about that, let me know. Anyway...

 

As you all may have (or may have not, i guess) heard, Adobe is killing flash. It's a good thing, since it has tons of security problems, and if i recall correctly, it is being replaced by HTML5, a better, more secure, and more capable alternative. It will slowly be phased out, to give developers time to port their projects over, until finally in 2020, it won't work on anything anywhere anymore.

 

The only problem with that is that loads of original BIONICLE media runs on flash, and isn't something that's going to be updated like a modern website will be. The original MNOG, MNOG 2, the piraka animations, the bohrok animations, etc... they all run on flash, and will be inaccessible if we don't find a solution. We need to find a way, before flash dies, to convert these important parts of bionicle to something that can be run and used the same way as they can now, without resorting to (excessively) hacky methods and the use of non-updated software. We want to keep the bionicle media alive, without keeping the security flaws of flash alive as well.

 

I don't really have a good closing for this, but maybe that's a metaphor of what will happen if we don't find a solution. Anyone have any ideas?


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#2 Offline CommanderKumo

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 02:57 AM

The Le-Wahi chapter has already been messed up  :(

but your right, we must double our efforts, we cannot let these important parts of history fail!


Edited by CommanderKumo, Jul 30 2017 - 02:58 AM.

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#3 Offline Pereki

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 11:57 AM

The Le-Wahi chapter has already been messed up  :(

but your right, we must double our efforts, we cannot let these important parts of history fail!

Try one of the download versions! They don't have the flute glitch.


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#4 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 12:47 PM

Where can we download that?

 

You know, I always wanted to make a video focused on lego's flash games... might have to get around to that, and quick.


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#5 Offline Toa Imrukii

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 01:20 PM

Someone REALLY needs to properly remake the MNOG games and VNOG, here's a reason to do such.


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#6 Offline Pohaturon

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 02:27 PM

Wait, how would the download versions be affected, though? Flash is a web plugin as far as I understand it, and the download versions are packages with everything required to function, and they don't connect to anything external meaning the plug being pulled on Flash shouldn't affect them, unless I'm wholly mistaken.

 

If so, we definitely need to find a way to preserve these games.

 

:kakama:


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#7 Offline Pereki

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 06:53 PM

Where can we download that?

Built-in save (fan-modified to more closely resemble the original online game)

Official 2006 rerelease

 

Some antivirus software won't like that first one for some reason, but I can vouch for its safety.


Edited by Pereki, Jul 30 2017 - 06:54 PM.

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#8 Offline Chronicler06

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 09:00 PM

When you say that the first one is more like the original game, do you mean like it has all the dialogue from the original version from 2001? I'm just asking if it's anything like the version that's currently still available on the templar website (link below to show what I'm talking about), specifically like how when you've gathered the Chronicler's Company, all six Matoran actually say something different at every significant point, rather than just blank boxes half the time (and I don't mean Kopeke's "...", but literally completely blank).

 

http://www.templar.c...nog/Player.html


Edited by Chronicler06, Jul 30 2017 - 09:02 PM.

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#9 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 10:41 PM

 

Where can we download that?

Built-in save (fan-modified to more closely resemble the original online game)

Official 2006 rerelease

 

Some antivirus software won't like that first one for some reason, but I can vouch for its safety.

 

 

Phew, thank you. Yeah I tried the old mediafire link from 2013 but my computer rejected it.


Edited by NickonAquaMagna, Jul 30 2017 - 10:41 PM.

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#10 Offline Pereki

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Posted Jul 30 2017 - 10:56 PM

When you say that the first one is more like the original game, do you mean like it has all the dialogue from the original version from 2001? I'm just asking if it's anything like the version that's currently still available on the templar website (link below to show what I'm talking about), specifically like how when you've gathered the Chronicler's Company, all six Matoran actually say something different at every significant point, rather than just blank boxes half the time (and I don't mean Kopeke's "...", but literally completely blank).

 

http://www.templar.c...nog/Player.html

Its missing those files still atm, but you can re-insert them yourself simply enough (that's what I did!). The changes this version makes are at the beginning of the game - the Tahu cutscene is restored, and you have to find your backpack/lightstone in Ga-Koro. And the game auto-saves instead of using that chapter select thing.


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#11 Offline Noble Tehurye

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Posted Jul 31 2017 - 03:40 PM

Wait, how would the download versions be affected, though? Flash is a web plugin as far as I understand it, and the download versions are packages with everything required to function, and they don't connect to anything external meaning the plug being pulled on Flash shouldn't affect them, unless I'm wholly mistaken.

 

If so, we definitely need to find a way to preserve these games.

 

:kakama:

 

This was my understanding as well. Flash is no longer going to be supported, but offline packages won't just stop working, correct? How would that even be possible, to cause them to stop working?


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#12 Offline NickonAquaMagna

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Posted Jul 31 2017 - 08:00 PM

So wait, is there a sway to start a new game in this version after beating it or are you stuck after playing it once?


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#13 Offline Azani

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Posted Jul 31 2017 - 11:58 PM

Wait, how would the download versions be affected, though? Flash is a web plugin as far as I understand it, and the download versions are packages with everything required to function, and they don't connect to anything external meaning the plug being pulled on Flash shouldn't affect them, unless I'm wholly mistaken.
 
If so, we definitely need to find a way to preserve these games.
 
:kakama:

 

This was my understanding as well. Flash is no longer going to be supported, but offline packages won't just stop working, correct? How would that even be possible, to cause them to stop working?


Yeah, to clarify: attention everyone! Adobe's decision to discontinue support for Flash Player in 2020 will have zero effect on the functionality or playability of any archived Flash content. Such content includes the MNOG, the MNOG2, the Bohrok and Bohrok Kal Animations, the Piraka Animations, and any other Flash-rooted content that was:

  • Created prior to the point of discontinuation in 2020.
  • Or is created using offline tools that allow the .swf files to be stored in a self-contained manner.

A number of commercially and freely available software tools are capable of playing .swf files, including Windows Media Player and VLC Media Player. Both are still fully supported by their respective manufacturers, both of whom have not announced any plans to cease to do so.

 

I'd be psyched to be a part of a project to restore, reset, and possibly remake the MNOG and similar Flash-rooted files, particularly the ones that have suffered over the years. That said, the discontinuation of support for Adobe Flash will not directly lead to any need to do so in any way.

 

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#14 Offline evil_jaga_genius

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Posted Aug 01 2017 - 10:18 AM

Yeah, to clarify: attention everyone! Adobe's decision to discontinue support for Flash Player in 2020 will have zero effect on the functionality or playability of any archived Flash content.


This being said it might be a good idea for fans to start downloading and archiving the files themselves.  Just to guard against any possible Dataclysms like the ones that took down the fan games and comic sprite kits.


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#15 Offline Azani

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Posted Aug 01 2017 - 11:41 AM

 

Yeah, to clarify: attention everyone! Adobe's decision to discontinue support for Flash Player in 2020 will have zero effect on the functionality or playability of any archived Flash content.


This being said it might be a good idea for fans to start downloading and archiving the files themselves.  Just to guard against any possible Dataclysms like the ones that took down the fan games and comic sprite kits.

 

 

No, for sure; I'm one hundred percent down with the efforts to preserve the game. I just want to make sure that everyone is on the same page with this particular concern.


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#16 Offline maletoaofwater

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Posted Sep 05 2017 - 03:45 PM

 

Wait, how would the download versions be affected, though? Flash is a web plugin as far as I understand it, and the download versions are packages with everything required to function, and they don't connect to anything external meaning the plug being pulled on Flash shouldn't affect them, unless I'm wholly mistaken.
 
If so, we definitely need to find a way to preserve these games.
 
:kakama:

 

This was my understanding as well. Flash is no longer going to be supported, but offline packages won't just stop working, correct? How would that even be possible, to cause them to stop working?


Yeah, to clarify: attention everyone! Adobe's decision to discontinue support for Flash Player in 2020 will have zero effect on the functionality or playability of any archived Flash content. Such content includes the MNOG, the MNOG2, the Bohrok and Bohrok Kal Animations, the Piraka Animations, and any other Flash-rooted content that was:

  • Created prior to the point of discontinuation in 2020.
  • Or is created using offline tools that allow the .swf files to be stored in a self-contained manner.

A number of commercially and freely available software tools are capable of playing .swf files, including Windows Media Player and VLC Media Player. Both are still fully supported by their respective manufacturers, both of whom have not announced any plans to cease to do so.

 

I'd be psyched to be a part of a project to restore, reset, and possibly remake the MNOG and similar Flash-rooted files, particularly the ones that have suffered over the years. That said, the discontinuation of support for Adobe Flash will not directly lead to any need to do so in any way.

 

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could you go into more technical detail on this please? (and sources, if you have them! :) )

my understanding was that flash was going to be totally shut down - and if you don't want to/can't download the games, then they'd still be playing in the web browser, which wouldn't that mean that they wouldn't work?

 

anyway: what about making some of these games into an open-sourced android/iOS game? i have no idea how we could convert to touch-based controls(technically speaking), but i think they'd translate pretty well to the game's physics/controls and stuff. i can imagine mnog now on my phone: as i touch one side of the screen, it moves that way, and with mnog2 you can just tap to click where you want to go, per the original. or, with mnog, you could even get the gyroscope involved: as you tilt the phone/tablet one way, the game moves that way (instead of moving your mouse to a side of the screen as you did in the original desktop, you'd just tilt your device.)

 

i remember there was an effort on this a while ago, but it didn't get very far because people didn't get very involved and it petered out quickly. that said, i think someone managed to get a watered down version of it running, if not playable, on their android device, and that was years ago. android (and iOS) has evolved so much since then, i think it'd be interesting to take another look at doing this. (it would also be great b/c it shouldn't require any data usage, so you could play it offline. long commute/airplane rides, anyone?)

 

since it's technically IP of a company, you probably couldn't publish it on the play/app stores, but at least for android that shouldn't be a problem, as the game's installation file can always be sideloaded - but it should still be open source, so that it can be vetted for security and stuff that the play store would normally do.

 

that turned out to be much longer of a post than i intended...


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#17 Offline Azani

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Posted Sep 08 2017 - 12:35 PM

could you go into more technical detail on this please? (and sources, if you have them! :) )
my understanding was that flash was going to be totally shut down - and if you don't want to/can't download the games, then they'd still be playing in the web browser, which wouldn't that mean that they wouldn't work?
 
anyway: what about making some of these games into an open-sourced android/iOS game? i have no idea how we could convert to touch-based controls(technically speaking), but i think they'd translate pretty well to the game's physics/controls and stuff. i can imagine mnog now on my phone: as i touch one side of the screen, it moves that way, and with mnog2 you can just tap to click where you want to go, per the original. or, with mnog, you could even get the gyroscope involved: as you tilt the phone/tablet one way, the game moves that way (instead of moving your mouse to a side of the screen as you did in the original desktop, you'd just tilt your device.)
 
i remember there was an effort on this a while ago, but it didn't get very far because people didn't get very involved and it petered out quickly. that said, i think someone managed to get a watered down version of it running, if not playable, on their android device, and that was years ago. android (and iOS) has evolved so much since then, i think it'd be interesting to take another look at doing this. (it would also be great b/c it shouldn't require any data usage, so you could play it offline. long commute/airplane rides, anyone?)
 
since it's technically IP of a company, you probably couldn't publish it on the play/app stores, but at least for android that shouldn't be a problem, as the game's installation file can always be sideloaded - but it should still be open source, so that it can be vetted for security and stuff that the play store would normally do.
 
that turned out to be much longer of a post than i intended...


I can totally do that; however, we may be misunderstanding each other. :P

Back in my earlier post, I said that the decision will have "zero effect on the functionality... of any archived Flash content". I do wnat to clarify that the software will get glitchy and unwieldy. Seeing the negative effects of outdated, poorly-designed software is distinct from seeing Flash cease to function. I'm not doubting the fact that Flash won't be easy to use, nor the fact that no one will be willing to fix it if it breaks. It's for those express reasons that I feel as though converting the MNOG and its kin to a format independent of SWF would be a really wise idea.
 
What I am, however, trying to say is that all SWF files will continue to work, implicit on the understanding that they're all saved to a local source. Unless a particular website is referencing Adobe's own, proprietary files, this won't be an issue, just as .wlmp files can still be read by copies of Windows Live Movie Maker.Theoretically, the MNOG and others, including all sites that use Flash plugins, will continue to work for as long as our media player software and Web browsers are able to recognize them. And that won't change, because Adobe licensed out the software format; they don't have any jurisdiction over individual works created using that format. What will be changing is the degree to which SWF as a design architecture and a piece of software will be supported; we won't be seeing any new patches, updates, or IT help after 2020. This will not affect the functionality of stable SWF plugins and .swf files that have been working up until this point in time.
 
One of my sources is my dad, who has forged a career from mobile software, having occupied himself with this sort of thing since the early 90's. He's been an executive at tech startups, designed webpages, and written code for Sun Microsystems and Microsoft, and he is certain that there will not be issues with playing back (not updating or ensuring the quality of) old SWF files or plugins.
 
"They will keep working. However, you can execute that flash will get replaced with HTML5 over time... unless the site is abandoned or the owner of the site doesn't care..."
 
We care, and we're the closest thing that there is to a caretaker. Let's do this.


Edited by Azani, Sep 08 2017 - 12:40 PM.

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#18 Offline Chronicler06

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Posted Nov 01 2017 - 07:45 PM

A few weeks ago, as part of yet another update to Firefox, the browser no longer lets you instantly and automatically use any Flash content (and yes, this includes MNOG). All Flash content is replaced with a message that reads "This site uses a plugin that may slow Firefox" followed by a link to activate Flash for the site. In other words, you can still play Flash games on the Firefox browser as you normally did previously, but you'll first need to tell Firefox to let you use Flash content on whatever website you're on. It's certainly no effect on any of the content, but the message certainly does indicate that the use of Flash has begun to fall out of favor, as stated at the beginning of this topic.


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