BZPower's Mata Nui

[Bonkle]

 

 

everything can be a gun if it throws things hard enough.

*bangs head against wall*

Keep it up, you're only saving them ammo.

[Makuta Luroka]

It is at this time I am going to announce that I am resigning from this game. It was fun creating a character to use for all of 5 minutes. Let me know when the next game's up so I can waste my time again.

[Eiji Hino]

It is at this time I am going to announce that I am resigning from this game. It was fun creating a character to use for all of 5 minutes. Let me know when the next game's up so I can waste my time again.

Burnmad, Tex, I'm very disappointed in you.  Look at what you two have done.  You've made Luroka upset, and all because you just had to keep him from betraying you.  Breaking the rules and metagaming to save your own characters' skins... is this what you've come to?  Apologize to Luroka.  N O W.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Scrubbish

[Voxumo]

I do have to say I am very disappointed in both Tex and Burnmad. Trying to kill a character in a game such as this, where it can last for over a month, over such little things as "Oh he's betrayed us in the past." is childish and petty beyond the normal level of what I would expect for these games.

 

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with killing folks in these games, but doing it episode 1... That's just rude. Unless of course it's in self-defense, as in they attacked first, but that doesn't seem like the situation here. I'm really disappointed in your lack of an ability to separate IC and OOC. You both should be ashamed of yourselves quite frankly.

 

 

I mean frankly if such a stunt had been pulled in Bara Magna, in regards to characters I was handling, and I knew the root of the plan was based in ooc misgivings, I would have been quick to bring in npcs to prevent such nonsense.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Vox

[Trijhak]

Gotta say I feel mildly uncomfortable we're trying to lecture the guy who created this game type on the rules... 

 

Particularly because no rules were broken...

Edited September 24, 2017 by Nahaki

[Bonkle]

Gotta say I feel mildly uncomfortable we're trying to lecture the guy who created this game type on the rules...

 

Particularly because no rules were broken...

You're right. Rules weren't broken, common sense was disregarded.

[Voxumo]

Gotta say I feel mildly uncomfortable we're trying to lecture the guy who created this game type on the rules... 

 

Particularly because no rules were broken...

There's rules, and then there's decency. Just because you can do something within the rules, does it really mean you should? On top of that there's been no precedent for rules being put into place to prevent this type of thing, as most everyone else has been a decent enough person to separate IC and OOC. Also it's hard to claim rules were broken or not broken, when there isn't exactly any rules for this game type in the first place. By that I mean there is no clear list of rules in the first post.

 

Also I just realized this, but the whole betrayal thing was based purely on Luroka's actions in Bara Magna, as Tex was host for both seasons of BZPGOT. And I don't remember Luroka betraying Burnmad at all in recent games, though may be misremembering. This makes it even more of a scummy move as the whole ooc logic of "Luroka constantly betrays me in these games" isn't even there.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Vox

[Pahrak Model ZX]

I leave you people alone for half a day and I come back to find this, free many lobsters

[Burnmad]

I'm glad this could be an opportunity for people to come together to inflate their own egos and senses of self-righteousness.

 

The only thing I feel bad about in all of this is the effect this has had on Nato. If I'd known this would reflect so poorly on him, I would have just endured having Luroka on our team and his inevitable betrayal (which is as much a meta decision as killing him E1 was).

 

[Voltex]

 

It is at this time I am going to announce that I am resigning from this game. It was fun creating a character to use for all of 5 minutes. Let me know when the next game's up so I can waste my time again.

Burnmad, Tex, I'm very disappointed in you.  Look at what you two have done.  You've made Luroka upset, and all because you just had to keep him from betraying you.  Breaking the rules and metagaming to save your own characters' skins... is this what you've come to?  Apologize to Luroka.  N O W.

 

 

Alright, so a couple things in response to this post first.

 

1-Luroka has a history of betraying people in other games, but especially in these games, and in Bara-Magna, his betrayal blindsided everyone he was allied to, and threw us for a loop for a couple rounds, as well as impacting the rest of our game. Now, that is exactly what a betrayal should do - but in these sorts of games you need to be able to trust the players you're allied to, and I couldn't trust Luroka.

 

2-The entire point of these games was to create a game where meta-gaming would drive the plot. It's why in the very first game I made sure to highlight the idea of the 'Backdoor PMs'; if someone learned something OOC or had OOC motivations for a move, so long as they could provide a good IC justification, it would be alright.

 

3-This really could be a part of Point 2, but I'll say it here: no rules were broken.

 

I do have to say I am very disappointed in both Tex and Burnmad. Trying to kill a character in a game such as this, where it can last for over a month, over such little things as "Oh he's betrayed us in the past." is childish and petty beyond the normal level of what I would expect for these games.

 

Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with killing folks in these games, but doing it episode 1... That's just rude. Unless of course it's in self-defense, as in they attacked first, but that doesn't seem like the situation here. I'm really disappointed in your lack of an ability to separate IC and OOC. You both should be ashamed of yourselves quite frankly.

 

 

I mean frankly if such a stunt had been pulled in Bara Magna, in regards to characters I was handling, and I knew the root of the plan was based in ooc misgivings, I would have been quick to bring in npcs to prevent such nonsense.

 

And now a few more in response to this one too.

 

1-Is it a bit petty? Perhaps. But as I stated above, Luroka has a history of betraying people, particularly in these games, and he has a history of doing it suddenly and without warning. There was no chance that I was going to trust Luroka at his word that this time would be different, so I took steps to prevent the risk of it occurring again.

 

2-I will again reiterate that one of the major points of these games when I created them was that if you could provide appropriate IC justification for moves being made due to OOC reasons, then it was totally fine.

 

This is also the reason why I never introduced a set of hard rules. These games are meant to be as open as possible, limited only by what the players and hosts can think up. I had both IC and OOC reasons to turn on Luroka, and then I managed to give myself an opportunity to play it out.

 

3-Don't question Nato's capabilities as a host here. You haven't seen the PM, and you haven't seen how I set the scene. We were in my character's private residence, with the front door locked (three times), and in a soundproof cellar (which was also locked, using a key only my character had). The only NPC Nato could have used was Vakama, and he was chained to the wall by all four limbs and severely weak and injured already. Bringing in NPCs or causing some random event to prevent me from fulfilling my plans would have been a cheap move.

 

It also almost didn't work, and might have actually failed if Luroka hadn't quit. His character is stronger than mine, and had already managed to crack my character's mask; another solid hit would have broken it, and it's already been established by Nato that losing your mask in this game would be just as crippling as it was in canon. Had that happened, it's likely that my character would have either been imprisoned or killed, as Burnmad's character would have recognized the changing tides.

[Bonkle]

Luroka's behavior in past games may have been questionable, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[Toru Nui]

Besides, in Season 2 he betrayed me.

 

And I don't know if you remember this, but I was quite evil in those days.

[Voxumo]

You can make all the claims you want that "Oh he betrays suddenly and without warning." but as Terrorsaur put it, Two wrongs don't make a right. Judging someone for an action they haven't even taken yet is wrong, and is scummy. This is textbook scummy. This is the definition of being a ****. 

The killing isn't even the issue, it's the fact you did it episode 1. You didn't even give the guy a chance to enjoy the game at all before you killed him, or tried to. That's the equivalent of spawn camping.

 

 

And my intent on the host bit wasn't actually meant to be targeted towards Nato. It does sound like nato tried to prevent this very thing by giving Luroka tools. Also even if Luroka betrays people, it typically doesn't seem to work in his favor. Wouldn't it have been better to let his own actions be his downfall than to pull such a scummy move?

 

And Burnmad, I'm not even gonna touch on your comment. This is the similar reaction we saw to an action that took place in BZPGOT S2, where you got into a tissy because of rolls and your character being at risk of death.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Vox

[Eiji Hino]

We could keep arguing about questionable actions and throwing around legal terms all day, but then we'd all hate everybody in this game and not want to play anymore. I say we have Tex and Burnmad acknowledge that they upset Luroka with their actions, drop the matter, and move on.

[Burnmad]

Vox you literally still whine about the end of S1 lol

 

-

[Trijhak]

We could keep arguing about questionable actions and throwing around legal terms all day, but then we'd all hate everybody in this game and not want to play anymore. I say we have Tex and Burnmad acknowledge that they upset Luroka with their actions, drop the matter, and move on.

That seemse like a good course of action for everybody. What's done is done, and let's have an unwritten agreement not to kill each other Episode 1. Many would be upset if it happened to them, so I completely understand that Luroka is upset, but I also completely understand where Tex is coming from.

 

So yes, let's do that.

[Voxumo]

Vox you literally still whine about the end of S1 lol

 

-

Yeah, but you didn't see me going after Pulse or Jed1ndy in S2 did you? So what's your point?

Edited September 24, 2017 by Vox

[Burnmad]

I'm... not sure what you're getting at.

 

Luroka had 0 involvement with the events leading to my death in S2?

 

[Voltex]

-snip-

 

I would have found some IC reason. Showing the rest of them Vakama would have happened regardless, and it'd be easy for Elittra to become paranoid that some of them might attempt to spread the info to undermine her... particularly the person who controls a network of spies.

 

The blackmail plot allowed me to make my move E1 instead of E2 or E3.

 

We could keep arguing about questionable actions and throwing around legal terms all day, but then we'd all hate everybody in this game and not want to play anymore. I say we have Tex and Burnmad acknowledge that they upset Luroka with their actions, drop the matter, and move on.

 

I understand why both Nato and Luroka would be upset.

 

I am less understanding as to why all of you feel the need to try and lecture Burn and I, when the only two who should be complaining - Nato and Luroka, in case it wasn't obvious enough - have, so far, have said their pieces and moved on (albeit, Luroka's was... less than BZP-appropriate off-site, but still somewhat understandable).

 

If I can visit this topic without finding yet another person calling me out on this, I will be happy to drop the matter, and proceed with a gentleman's agreement not to do this in the first round in the future.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Elittra

[Voxumo]

Honestly Tex, the fact you don't understand why others, other than Nato and Luroka, would be upset with your and burnmad actions shows that continuing is a lost cause. As such I'm fine to drop it as well.

 

 

As to you Burnmad, I was comparing your anger at being at risk of dying in S2 to Luroka's anger here.. I don't understand why you brought up the end of S1.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Vox

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

1. Crossbows are not guns. True, they both transfer energy from the launcher to the object launched, the energy propelling it forward, but the ways and means of this being achieved is very different. Sound like my mother who referenced a crossbow I held as a gun, and I laughed at that.

 

2. I disapprove of killing another player this early in a game, but the opportunity was unfortunately given, and in these games advantages are to be taken within the bounds of what the character is willing to do IC (morality & honor). From what it sounds, there was justification IC presented by the circumstances that arose, so its acceptable. Thanks Nato for the apology, and the good part of this occurrence is that it will now serve as a historical example to look back on and study in relation to this new game-type.

 

EDIT:

3. Guys, let us try not to leak events occurring in PM. It ruins the game. We will be able to look at a full picture once it was transpired and we update ourselves on a full article collection (the full episodes).

Edited September 24, 2017 by Hyethut (Iaredios)

[Voltex]

Honestly Tex, the fact you don't understand why others, other than Nato and Luroka, would be upset with your and burnmad actions shows that continuing is a lost cause. As such I'm fine to drop it as well.

 

 

As to you Burnmad, I was comparing your anger at being at risk of dying in S2 to Luroka's anger here.. I don't understand why you brought up the end of S1.

 

he brought up the end of S1 because to this day you still complain to me about letting Jed kill you, despite having it explained to you repeatedly the many near-impossible rolls he had to succeed in order for the situation to turn out as it did.

 

I have already apologized to Nato, and intend to apologize to Luroka once we've both had time to settle and cool off from this - I do not need to and will not apologize to the rest of you, who were not involved.

[Burnmad]

As to you Burnmad, I was comparing your anger at being at risk of dying in S2 to Luroka's anger here.. I don't understand why you brought up the end of S1.

 

Then what's your point? I never got an apology, but I still got over it. Makes no sense for you to bring it up as a reason for why we should feel bad and apologize.

 

As for S1, I brought it up because I (still) don't understand what point you're trying to make and figured, whatever it is, it's best to point out that you've also done the same thing.

 

[Bonkle]

We aren't gonna change any minds here. I'll admit I'm clearly guilty of joining the debate but we're past the point of it having any usefulness.

[Eiji Hino]

S T O P A R G U I N G P L E A S E

[Voxumo]

he brought up the end of S1 because to this day you still complain to me about letting Jed kill you, despite having it explained to you repeatedly the many near-impossible rolls he had to succeed in order for the situation to turn out as it did.

I have not brought up the end of S1 in several months, so don't exaggerate it as if I talk about it every bloody day. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Vox

[Onaku]

Let's just admit that nobody is right and everyone sucks. Yes, that includes me.

[Burnmad]

I'm game for that

 

[Ehksidian]

so how about rocks

[Voxumo]

Rocks are great, they make amazing souvenirs. 

[Dane-gerous]

I like rocks.

[Burnmad]

 

[FrozenFlash]

Hey, people. Let's all start a rock band together.

[Dane-gerous]

I'm game.

[Bonkle]

What is this sudden camaraderie between the Stone and Water regions?

[Trijhak]

Are you willing to accept the sole sane person from Ta-Koro as well?

[Ehksidian]

What is this sudden camaraderie between the Stone and Water regions?

rocks.

everyone loves 'em. can't take them for granite though, even if they're everywhere.

 

limestone.

[Nato G]

The whole Ta-Koro situation took place in something of a grey area, as far as I'm concerned. Technically, sure, no rules were broken, but it was still underhanded, and impolite. There's no precedent for something like this, so like I said in my earlier post, I'd like to hope that people intending to run these games in the future can learn from my mistakes. 

 

There's been some talk in the Discord chat about ending the episode, or even restarting the whole game and reassigning all of the factions, but I don't think that's going to accomplish anything. Episode 1 will probably run for another day or two, and we've got nine more episode to come after that. While this is an ugly, undesirable situation, I don't want it casting a black cloud over the rest of the game, so let's all just move on, and make the best of everything that's yet to come. 

[Bonkle]

I hope everyone can keep OOC and IC separated because of this, as I'm trying to do. At the end of the day it's just a game.

[The Hip Historian Iaredios]

I hope everyone can keep OOC and IC separated because of this, as I'm trying to do. At the end of the day it's just a game.

Exactly.