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Biggest Gaps in G1 Canon?

G1 Canon

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#1 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Jan 25 2018 - 04:41 PM

Hey everyone, I've been spending a lot of time on BS01 lately trying to get a grasp of the G1 canon as a whole (I know, a huge task!) because I'm a stickler for canon and cause hey, why not.

 

One of the things I've been trying to sniff out is a sort of list of the most glaring/significant gaps in G1 - i.e. loose ends and minor (or major) details that never got tied up before Bionicle was cancelled. The resolution of the story serials set after the reformation of Spherus Magna would be the most obvious candidates, but beyond that when I say "glaring/significant" I don't necessarily mean highly-impactful to the main plot (though of course those would count). I'm more thinking in terms of level of interest or implied importance that was never drawn out fully in the books, movies, comics, serials, companion books, etc.

 

I'd love for people to comment with what they think are the biggest/most interesting gaps in the canon, with some explanation as to why you think so. You could even add a bit of theorizing or detective work yourself if you like! If the dialogue stalls I might throw in a few of my own picks just to keep things flowing  :)

 

Looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!


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#2 Offline Planetperson

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Posted Jan 25 2018 - 06:30 PM

Great question. There are LOTS of odds and ends that were never explained or were left intentionally underspecified. I can think of a few:

  • How do Matoran come into being? This was one of the longest-standing mysteries for many years, but Greg sort of revealed this a few years ago on the Lego Message Boards, in typical anticlimactic fashion, by saying that they just get pumped out by machines when Turaga need more of them.
  • How do non-Matoran beings in the MU, like Skakdi and Vortixx, come into being? If it's the same as Matoran, who decides when more of them should be created?
  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?
  • What is the nature of destiny in the Bionicle universe? In Bionicle, destiny is more than a metaphysical concept. There are many examples of elements in the story that happen simply because they are dictated by "destiny" -- transformation by EP, transformation into Toa, etc. These things have direct consequences in the story. But where does destiny come from, to what extent does it influence events in the Bionicle universe, and is it truly inescapable?
  • Gali and Kopaka had visions of the Toa Kaita in 2001. Where did those visions come from?
  • How does Kapura's weird speed trick work?
  • How did Takanuva survive at the end of Mask of Light?
  • There is a huge part of the history of the MU, between 60,000 years ago and 15,000 years ago, for which we have basically no information.
  • What is the origin of energized protodermis and the Energized Protodermis Entity?
  • What was the fire entity that fought Vakama in BA7?
  • Exactly where and when is Toa Krakua when he communicates with Vakama in the past in BA10? What is the island that he is supposedly defending?
  • What is the full extent of Axonn's and Brutaka's powers?
  • How did the Toa Nuva find Odina so easily?
  • What adventures did many of the characters in the MU have during Reign of Shadows?
  • Why did the Great Beings go into hiding, and where have they been all this time?

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#3 Offline CyclonatorZ

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Posted Jan 25 2018 - 07:22 PM

 

  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?

 


That question was already answered, in the worst possible way. To quote Greg, they were "a glitch."


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#4 Offline Planetperson

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Posted Jan 25 2018 - 07:44 PM

 

 

  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?

 


That question was already answered, in the worst possible way. To quote Greg, they were "a glitch."

 

 

I remember. But why were they prophetic visions and not random nonsense?


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#5 Offline CyclonatorZ

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Posted Jan 25 2018 - 08:13 PM

 

 

 

  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?

 


That question was already answered, in the worst possible way. To quote Greg, they were "a glitch."

 

 

I remember. But why were they prophetic visions and not random nonsense?

 

 

Indeed. Its why the explanation given makes no sense, and was in all likelihood one of the many retcons Greg pulled out of nowhere.


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#6 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Jan 26 2018 - 01:01 AM

 

  • How do Matoran come into being? This was one of the longest-standing mysteries for many years, but Greg sort of revealed this a few years ago on the Lego Message Boards, in typical anticlimactic fashion, by saying that they just get pumped out by machines when Turaga need more of them.
  • How do non-Matoran beings in the MU, like Skakdi and Vortixx, come into being? If it's the same as Matoran, who decides when more of them should be created?

 

Wow, I was under the impression all the Matoran and other beings had just existed since the brith of the MU, this adds a whole new dimension to this. Do you know of any more info on the subject? And do you by chance have a link to Greg talking about it on the message boards?

 

 


 

  • What is the nature of destiny in the Bionicle universe? In Bionicle, destiny is more than a metaphysical concept. There are many examples of elements in the story that happen simply because they are dictated by "destiny" -- transformation by EP, transformation into Toa, etc. These things have direct consequences in the story. But where does destiny come from, to what extent does it influence events in the Bionicle universe, and is it truly inescapable?

 

 

I remember reading that supposedly "Destiny" was set by Mata Nui for all beings at the time of their creation, but that seems not only problematic (i.e. how would that still work out after the Awakening when free will entered the picture?) but also boring. I'd like to imagine Destiny is some cosmic force that extends even beyond the MU, but that's more headcanon than anything else I guess.

 

 

 

  • What is the origin of energized protodermis and the Energized Protodermis Entity?

 

 

I'd REALLY love to have more answers to this question. The EPE is made to seem pretty important, and obviously energized protodermis itself plays a HUGE role throughout the story, especially in terms of starting it all in being the ultimate cause of the Shattering.

 

 

 

  • Exactly where and when is Toa Krakua when he communicates with Vakama in the past in BA10? What is the island that he is supposedly defending?

 

 

 

Shameless plug, I actually wrote on this for my contribution to the 2017 BZP Fanfic Exchange, which accounts for part of the reason I've spent so much time on BS01. I was intentional in making it canonically feasible (other than one glaring show of my hand), and I think it came out pretty well if you'd want to check it out just for kicks. (Link)


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#7 Offline CommanderKumo

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Posted Jan 26 2018 - 03:22 AM

One gap which would be cool to explore is all the alien civilisations that Mata Nui visited before he crashed on Aqua Magna, they probably had some intriguing stories to tell and interesting cultures to explore. It would have been really awesome if one of them had stowed away on the robot and influenced the matoran in some way ;)


Edited by CommanderKumo, Jan 26 2018 - 05:13 AM.

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#8 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted Jan 26 2018 - 04:59 AM

How did Takanuva survive at the end of Mask of Light?

 

In the novelization of Mask of Light, Takanuva survived simply by being split from Makuta when the door fell on him, and not being under the door at that time. Much better of an explanation than the one in the movie, I think, and one I personally consider canon. As for the movie explanation, the pillar that resurrected Takanuva was imbued with life energy... for some... reason...

 

What was the fire entity that fought Vakama in BA7?

 

Pretty sure it was just one of Teridax's numerous Rahi experiments. I mean, we've seen Makuta create weirder things than that.

 

What adventures did many of the characters in the MU have during Reign of Shadows?

 

I'm sure we would've learned a lot more about this if Greg hadn't been determined to make that serial almost entirely focused on alternate universes... (that serial was the biggest missed opportunity in all of Bionicle, if you ask me)


Edited by Toatapio Nuva, Jan 26 2018 - 05:00 AM.

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#9 Offline Wrinkledlion X

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Posted Jan 26 2018 - 11:13 PM

  • Exactly where and when is Toa Krakua when he communicates with Vakama in the past in BA10? What is the island that he is supposedly defending?

 

That is a very good question.

 

I don't know if it counts, but I want to know where all the Bohrok came from. I know they start out as Av-Matoran, but where did millions of dead Av-Matoran come from? 


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#10 Offline Sir Keksalot

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Posted Jan 27 2018 - 10:10 AM

The one between Roodaka's thighs. /kappa

 

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

Then there's the Ignika. It does nothing to Pridak's swords, or to people who simply hold it, but outside the GSR, organisms and their remains get transformed? And this somehow lets Glatorian be Toa now? Why?


Edited by Sir Keksalot, Jan 27 2018 - 10:10 AM.

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#11 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted Jan 27 2018 - 10:47 AM

 

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

Actually, the GBs did try to stop the war by creating the Baterra. The effort failed miserably, but they did try. The GBs were divided between those who focused on trying to stop the war and those building the MU.


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#12 Offline CyclonatorZ

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Posted Jan 27 2018 - 11:43 AM

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

There was a fanfic I had an idea for way back that ditched this whole storyline for one that I thought made more sense, and removed the need to introduce multiple new species that were just equivalents of Matoran and Toa. My idea was that Mata Nui was a prototype weapon the Great Beings were developing to protect the inhabitants of Spherus Magna from the greatest evil in the universe: the Baterra. However, the Baterra arrived too early, and so a Great Being named Makoki loaded his consciousness onto the Great Spirit Robot and told everyone on Spherus Magna to hop aboard. They fled into space, and all of this was lost to history over the course of hundreds of thousands of years. The modern day inhabitants of the robot believed it to be the entire universe, and Makoki to be their "Great Spirit Mata Nui"

 

Also, Terridax was a Great Being too (who went by the name Mangai)  but he betrayed the others (including his brother Makoki) and secretly stowed aboard the Great Spirit Robot and corrupted one of the members of the Makuta race. He alone was Makuta Nui, "The Great Makuta."


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#13 Offline Sir Keksalot

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Posted Jan 27 2018 - 12:04 PM

 

 

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

Actually, the GBs did try to stop the war by creating the Baterra. The effort failed miserably, but they did try. The GBs were divided between those who focused on trying to stop the war and those building the MU.

 

I meant directly going after the Element Lords themselves. The GB's made them, so surely they would have made a fail-safe to stop them if needed, right? Not only that, but building the MU shouldn't have even been considered as an option. It made no sense. If they could make a robot that big, why even mess around with making a whole world inside it and just use it to force everyone to stop fighting?


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#14 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted Jan 27 2018 - 02:26 PM

 

 

 

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

Actually, the GBs did try to stop the war by creating the Baterra. The effort failed miserably, but they did try. The GBs were divided between those who focused on trying to stop the war and those building the MU.

 

I meant directly going after the Element Lords themselves. The GB's made them, so surely they would have made a fail-safe to stop them if needed, right? Not only that, but building the MU shouldn't have even been considered as an option. It made no sense. If they could make a robot that big, why even mess around with making a whole world inside it and just use it to force everyone to stop fighting?

 

 

The GBs were scientists, not warriors, so I doubt they would actually have stood a chance against the Elements Lords in combat. The Baterra were their tool, which I'm sure were meant to go against the Element Lords too. And perhaps not having a fail-safe against the Element Lords inspired them to make so many fail-safes in the MU? It would make sense that they learned from their past mistakes.

 

As for the existence of the MU itself, we know that the imagination of the GBs tended to... get out of hand at times. This is probably why they made the MU the way it was, simply enough. Aside from this though, I'm sure the way the MU worked had its advantages. A living environment inside the robot ensured that the mechanisms would not deteriorate over time. The whole idea behind Bionicle is that the MU operates like a living body - in some ways, it enables the whole system to be more adaptable to changes in the long run.

 

Also, "forcing everyone to stop fighting" doesn't sound like a plan that would be very successful in the long run. Sure, you might be able to stop the fighting for a while, but the tensions would continue to brood, and war would eventually break out again. The GBs probably came to the logical conclusion that using violence to stop violence wouldn't work, especially after they saw that the Baterra were ineffective at doing exactly that. That's why they tasked Mata Nui with observing other civilizations - to figure out how to prevent a war like the Core War in the future. Their plan focused on the future, rather than the present.


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#15 Offline Sir Keksalot

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Posted Jan 27 2018 - 03:24 PM

 

 

 

 

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

Actually, the GBs did try to stop the war by creating the Baterra. The effort failed miserably, but they did try. The GBs were divided between those who focused on trying to stop the war and those building the MU.

 

I meant directly going after the Element Lords themselves. The GB's made them, so surely they would have made a fail-safe to stop them if needed, right? Not only that, but building the MU shouldn't have even been considered as an option. It made no sense. If they could make a robot that big, why even mess around with making a whole world inside it and just use it to force everyone to stop fighting?

 

 

The GBs were scientists, not warriors, so I doubt they would actually have stood a chance against the Elements Lords in combat. The Baterra were their tool, which I'm sure were meant to go against the Element Lords too. And perhaps not having a fail-safe against the Element Lords inspired them to make so many fail-safes in the MU? It would make sense that they learned from their past mistakes.

 

If that had been simply explained, I would have bought that. However, it was never addressed why the GB's didn't leave an out for themselves, why they didn't leave themselves a way to handle their potentially flawed creations. I'm not even saying they had to fight the EL's, just that they could have designed a device that could incapacitate them if needed. Come to think of it, why didn't they leave themselves with enough political authority over the EL's to overrule their decisions if needed? Being the kings of SM, shouldn't they have had that by default?


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#16 Offline squidmaster

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Posted Jan 29 2018 - 07:32 AM

 a cool gap to expand in my opinion would be what the glatorians actually are because it would seem they are just bigger agori but all the agori look the same are the two glatorians from each tribe look different from each other 


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#17 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 29 2018 - 09:09 PM

Let's not forget the biggest question of all:

 

tumblr_oneiov2QTa1sagqyso1_400.png

 

 



 



 

  • What is the nature of destiny in the Bionicle universe? In Bionicle, destiny is more than a metaphysical concept. There are many examples of elements in the story that happen simply because they are dictated by "destiny" -- transformation by EP, transformation into Toa, etc. These things have direct consequences in the story. But where does destiny come from, to what extent does it influence events in the Bionicle universe, and is it truly inescapable?

 

 

I remember reading that supposedly "Destiny" was set by Mata Nui for all beings at the time of their creation, but that seems not only problematic (i.e. how would that still work out after the Awakening when free will entered the picture?) but also boring. I'd like to imagine Destiny is some cosmic force that extends even beyond the MU, but that's more headcanon than anything else I guess.

 

My interpretation was that there are actually two "Destiny" system at work in the Matoran Universe: a Greater Destiny that all beings, including those on Spherus Magna, have, as well as the Lesser Destiny set by Mata Nui. There would be no contradiction between a being's two destinies, since Mata Nui's Destiny may be to assign destinies in line with the GD.

 

"Destiny" no  longer sounds like a word to me.

 

I don't have much to say about the original question posited. BIONICLE had far too many loose ends, many of which were answered by Greg in a way that seemed anticlimactic. The only thing we got from Greg out of the LMB that, in my opinion, was so important it needed to be said was the Earth Tribe history.

 

I do recall that BIONICLE: World makes mention that Matoran could only be brought into existence on Metru Nui, not Mata Nui. It mentioned that Matoran who came into existence after the return might have trouble integrating with the veterans who had already experienced so much together.


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#18 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Jan 30 2018 - 12:26 AM

Let's not forget the biggest question of all:

 

 

 

 



 



 

  • What is the nature of destiny in the Bionicle universe? In Bionicle, destiny is more than a metaphysical concept. There are many examples of elements in the story that happen simply because they are dictated by "destiny" -- transformation by EP, transformation into Toa, etc. These things have direct consequences in the story. But where does destiny come from, to what extent does it influence events in the Bionicle universe, and is it truly inescapable?

 

 

I remember reading that supposedly "Destiny" was set by Mata Nui for all beings at the time of their creation, but that seems not only problematic (i.e. how would that still work out after the Awakening when free will entered the picture?) but also boring. I'd like to imagine Destiny is some cosmic force that extends even beyond the MU, but that's more headcanon than anything else I guess.

 

My interpretation was that there are actually two "Destiny" system at work in the Matoran Universe: a Greater Destiny that all beings, including those on Spherus Magna, have, as well as the Lesser Destiny set by Mata Nui. There would be no contradiction between a being's two destinies, since Mata Nui's Destiny may be to assign destinies in line with the GD.

I think this is a solid interpretation of what Destiny really is, makes sense and clears things up a bit.

 

 

 

I do recall that BIONICLE: World makes mention that Matoran could only be brought into existence on Metru Nui, not Mata Nui. It mentioned that Matoran who came into existence after the return might have trouble integrating with the veterans who had already experienced so much together.

 

I checked my own copy of BW and you are spot on, I hadn't caught that before. So there definitely is a way that new Matoran come into being in Metru Nui at least, I just wish we knew more about it!


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#19 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 30 2018 - 01:59 AM

 

I do recall that BIONICLE: World makes mention that Matoran could only be brought into existence on Metru Nui, not Mata Nui. It mentioned that Matoran who came into existence after the return might have trouble integrating with the veterans who had already experienced so much together.

 

 

 

 

I checked my own copy of BW and you are spot on, I hadn't caught that before. So there definitely is a way that new Matoran come into being in Metru Nui at least, I just wish we knew more about it!

 

 

I've considered doing fanfiction based on that fact, about a post-Mata Nui Matoran who lacks the shared history with all his or her fellow Matoran about everything that happened on Mata Nui. I wonder if new beings in the Matoran Universe would immediately feel the effects of Velika's Awakening.


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#20 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Jan 30 2018 - 02:53 PM

 I wonder if new beings in the Matoran Universe would immediately feel the effects of Velika's Awakening.

 

 

That is a really great question, I wonder. I feel like if the machines pumped out a bunch of zombie-like Matoran with no personality the Turaga wouldn't use them again, so maybe Mata Nui modified the machines? Or maybe Velika did?


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#21 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 31 2018 - 01:22 AM

 

 I wonder if new beings in the Matoran Universe would immediately feel the effects of Velika's Awakening.

 

 

That is a really great question, I wonder. I feel like if the machines pumped out a bunch of zombie-like Matoran with no personality the Turaga wouldn't use them again, so maybe Mata Nui modified the machines? Or maybe Velika did?

 

 

I doubt Greg had planned out the Awakening when he thought of the factories. What probably happened is that Velika somehow was able to affect even the factories to produce Matoran already Awakened.


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#22 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Feb 01 2018 - 05:51 AM

Here's something that's got me stumped: 

 

Retrieving the Heart of the Visorak is listed on the Scroll of Preparations for Mata Nui's awakening, which was placed in the Great Temple by the Great Beings before the GS robot left Spherus Magna. The Visorak were created by the Makuta at a time I presume was after the GS robot's departure, and the Heart of the Visorak was created by Chirox sometime after that. The answer could be that the Visorak and the Heart were created prior to the GS robot leaving SM, i.e. before the GBs placed the Scroll, but in what I've read the implication seems to be that the creation of both was later in the Universe's history (though I could of course be wrong). 

 

Any thoughts on how this all fits together?


Edited by SamDrew, Feb 01 2018 - 05:51 AM.

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#23 Offline TuragaNuva

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Posted Feb 01 2018 - 09:18 AM

Here's something that's got me stumped: 
 
Retrieving the Heart of the Visorak is listed on the Scroll of Preparations for Mata Nui's awakening, which was placed in the Great Temple by the Great Beings before the GS robot left Spherus Magna. The Visorak were created by the Makuta at a time I presume was after the GS robot's departure, and the Heart of the Visorak was created by Chirox sometime after that. The answer could be that the Visorak and the Heart were created prior to the GS robot leaving SM, i.e. before the GBs placed the Scroll, but in what I've read the implication seems to be that the creation of both was later in the Universe's history (though I could of course be wrong). 
 
Any thoughts on how this all fits together?

Yeah, that's never quite made sense. Heck, Teridax just re-made the Visorak after taking control of the MU, so that item being in the scroll was really just because Greg wanted to send some of the Mahri away for a while, and give Takadox a way to escape the island he was trapped on.

Anyway, the best explanation I've ever been able to come up with is that the OoMN modified the scroll after the creation of the Visorak, thinking that they would interfere with Mata Nui's awakening.

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#24 Offline Ta-metru_defender

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Posted Feb 02 2018 - 11:37 AM

Who ate all the pies?


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#25 Offline Toa of Italy

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Posted Feb 02 2018 - 02:11 PM

Let's see. It seems to me that the 2001-2003 story was mostly tied up, I can't think of any real loose ends. Maybe the Makoki stones...

 

In 2004-2005, the biggest loose end was probably Krakua's appearance in Time Trap; Greg told us that Krakua had established the communication with Vakama while protecting a fortress in the future, but that episode was never shown and we were left wondering exactly how the connection established itself, why Krakua talked about those particular things with Vakama and so on.

I also think the past of the Rahaga might have been explained better: while the main elements (raid on a Brotherhood fortress, theft of the Avohkii, transformation of four Toa into Rahaga, rescue...) were there, the exact order wasn't clear (apparently there was a battle with Makuta Teridax, but when exactly did it occur?) and even later answers by Greg failed to fully dispel the ambiguity.

 

In 2006 Jaller & co. became the Toa Inika by being blasted by lightning from the Red Star. That transformation was never explained until after the end of Bionicle, when we were given a lame retcon saying it was yet another failsafe system built by the Great Beings. 

I would also have liked to see tied up some of the stories about the Dark Hunters that appeared in the Dark Hunter guide. Too many were described as being on missions whose conclusion we never saw, forcing Greg to later basically say that all of them had failed; I think at least the Dark Hunters tasked with capturing the Piraka could have been given some closure.

 

In 2007, the largest gap is called BIONICLE Legends #7: Invasion, the book about the descent of the Toa Inika down the Cord that was never published, which should have featured Makuta taking over Matoro, Vezon attacking the Toa Inika and being captured by the Zyglak and so on. All these things were canon, but they were only mentioned in guides, which was a pity.

That was also the year serials began, which gave us some additional stories but also a great deal of inconsistencies (how did Karzahni get to the Pit with his entire Manas army? How did the Toa Nuva know where Odina was and how did they travel throughout the universe?...)

 

2008 was a messy year, where we never fully understood the order of the serials. If I were to name gaps, I'd say the draining of Takanuva's light (we later learned that it was Icarax who dropped the shadow leech to drain Ahkmou's light... but there are a lot of unclear issues with this explanation, such as why Icarax of all people went after a Po-Matoran), the Mask of Time (disappeared when Voporak took it, we never learned what became of it) and Brothers in Arms (this wasn't strictly a gap, but there should have been a lot more about Vultraz's and Mazeka's conflict, instead of it all ending with a dimensional hop and an alternate universe).

 

2009 was the year where the major gaps and loose ends began. Baterra, Element Lords, the second journey of Tarduk, later joined by Mata Nui, to the Valley of the Maze (we only saw bits of it), the Sisters of the Skrall (their appearance in Sahmad's Tale was just a way to get rid of them), some characters that never or almost never appeared (Perditus), some issues about the Glatorian population (there were veteran Glatorian and nameless rookies, with people like Metus recruiting new ones... but from where?) and probably more I can't think of right now; plus all the open-ended plots of Reign of Shadows.

 

Don't even get me started with 2010 and the never-finished serials.

 

Some additional, recurring inconsistencies, in my opinion, where related to geography and knowledge. In the former case, Greg never managed to create a coherent geography of the MU: the structure of the domes and of the sea gates was never completely described and people just seemed to get from one place to another without any regard for distance or for the existence of a connection between two locations (Karzahni's journey to the Pit, Brutaka's team journey from Tren Krom's island to Artidax); the MU map also had major problems.

As for Bara Magna, the size of the desert and the time it took to cross it kept changing; there was also the issue of the giant robots' sizes (a 27 million feet tall robot as big as the village of Tesara...) in comparison with the desert's and the geography of the regions of Bara Magna and Spherus Magna that were not depicted on the official map.

 

As for knowledge, this is something of an obsession of mine. Basically things that were at some point a mystery (to name but a few: Nidhiki being a Toa; the origin of the Rahkshi, which was unknown to the Matoran of Metru Nui; Antidermis; the fact that the MU was contained in a giant robot) then suddenly became common knowledge. How was that possible? Greg's answers on this point never fully satisfied me.


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#26 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Feb 03 2018 - 04:01 PM

@Toa of Italy - Wow tons of fantastic questions!


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#27 Offline Wrinkledlion X

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Posted Feb 03 2018 - 11:33 PM

In 2004-2005, the biggest loose end was probably Krakua's appearance in Time Trap; Greg told us that Krakua had established the communication with Vakama while protecting a fortress in the future, but that episode was never shown and we were left wondering exactly how the connection established itself, why Krakua talked about those particular things with Vakama and so on.

 

Didn't Krakua end up defending Metru-Nui during Makuta's reign? That always seemed like it was intended to be his time to shine, but then maybe Greg couldn't make it work and gave up on him. 


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#28 Offline Toa Imrukii

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Posted Feb 04 2018 - 04:53 AM

  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?
That question was already answered, in the worst possible way. To quote Greg, they were "a glitch."

Thaaaats....... Not the worst possible way it could have been answered. It's marked down in a way to seem maybe a bit cryptic, and it may have ultimately been lazy, it's not uncommon for Greg to have been lazy with his story writing in the past, but the whole concept of 'A Glitch' happening in the BIONICLE Universe is actually intriguing to me.

Edited by Toa Imrukii, Feb 04 2018 - 04:57 AM.

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#29 Offline Takatu

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Posted Feb 04 2018 - 03:40 PM

 

 

 

  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?
That question was already answered, in the worst possible way. To quote Greg, they were "a glitch."

Thaaaats....... Not the worst possible way it could have been answered. It's marked down in a way to seem maybe a bit cryptic, and it may have ultimately been lazy, it's not uncommon for Greg to have been lazy with his story writing in the past, but the whole concept of 'A Glitch' happening in the BIONICLE Universe is actually intriguing to me.

 

 

I think, on its own, it does sound like a fairly interesting concept. The problem I had with it was that, throughout the second movie and pretty much the whole of the 2004 story, Vakama's whole development revolved around his visions NOT being a glitch. When others accused him of basically being nuts and that there was something wrong with him, he lost confidence. When he learned to trust his visions as something more than faulty wiring, that they were real, he got his confidence back and evolved as a character.

 

For Greg to later go back on that and say, "Yeah, it really was a glitch," kind of negates his whole arc for that year. At least for me.


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#30 Offline Wrinkledlion X

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Posted Feb 04 2018 - 06:41 PM

 

 

 

 

  • Where do Vakama's visions come from? Why do they always come true?
That question was already answered, in the worst possible way. To quote Greg, they were "a glitch."

Thaaaats....... Not the worst possible way it could have been answered. It's marked down in a way to seem maybe a bit cryptic, and it may have ultimately been lazy, it's not uncommon for Greg to have been lazy with his story writing in the past, but the whole concept of 'A Glitch' happening in the BIONICLE Universe is actually intriguing to me.

 

 

I think, on its own, it does sound like a fairly interesting concept. The problem I had with it was that, throughout the second movie and pretty much the whole of the 2004 story, Vakama's whole development revolved around his visions NOT being a glitch. When others accused him of basically being nuts and that there was something wrong with him, he lost confidence. When he learned to trust his visions as something more than faulty wiring, that they were real, he got his confidence back and evolved as a character.

 

For Greg to later go back on that and say, "Yeah, it really was a glitch," kind of negates his whole arc for that year. At least for me.

 

 

Agreed. One workaround might be that it was only a glitch mechanically speaking, and that his prophetic glitches were still predestined at the end of the day. Of course, that implies the existence of Destiny in the greater supernatural sense rather than the "Matoran Universe running like clockwork" sense that it gradually became.

 

Personally, I wish the Great Beings hadn't been demoted from gods to scientists, because then we'd be able to explain destiny stuff away with "the Great Beings did it." Now we either have to chalk it up to randomness (which it clearly isn't in-story) or just say "the Even Greater Beings did it." Maybe the Even Greater Beings are just Greg and the LEGO marketing division? 


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#31 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Feb 13 2018 - 01:18 AM

Another question: If Mata Nui's eyes, aka the twin "Sun Holes," were obstructed by the creation of the island of Mata Nui when the GS Robot crashed on Aqua Magna (per BS01), was Metru Nui's dome perpetually dark until the robot awakened under Teridax's control a thousand years later? I seem to remember Metru Nui being portrayed in daylight in some scenes from Web of Shadows.

 

And on that note, what were the sources of light for the other domes in the MU? Did they have "sun holes" too that weren't eyes?


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#32 Offline Iron_Man5

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Posted Feb 13 2018 - 07:26 AM

Another question: If Mata Nui's eyes, aka the twin "Sun Holes," were obstructed by the creation of the island of Mata Nui when the GS Robot crashed on Aqua Magna (per BS01), was Metru Nui's dome perpetually dark until the robot awakened under Teridax's control a thousand years later? I seem to remember Metru Nui being portrayed in daylight in some scenes from Web of Shadows.

 

And on that note, what were the sources of light for the other domes in the MU? Did they have "sun holes" too that weren't eyes?

Not 100% sure about the other domes, but I'm pretty sure that Naho Bay was covering one of the eyes, so it let a little bit of light to come through, but it was darker than normal daylight.


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#33 Offline Planetperson

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Posted Feb 13 2018 - 07:30 AM

Another question: If Mata Nui's eyes, aka the twin "Sun Holes," were obstructed by the creation of the island of Mata Nui when the GS Robot crashed on Aqua Magna (per BS01), was Metru Nui's dome perpetually dark until the robot awakened under Teridax's control a thousand years later? I seem to remember Metru Nui being portrayed in daylight in some scenes from Web of Shadows.

 

And on that note, what were the sources of light for the other domes in the MU? Did they have "sun holes" too that weren't eyes?

 

That's a really good question. This is yet another thing that was never satisfactorily explained in my opinion.

 

In 2005, I recall that it was established that the sun holes were actually not completely covered -- I think it was said that one partially let light through (probably Naho Bay) and the other was almost totally obscured (probably the frozen lake in Ko-Wahi). This is why there was daylight on Metru Nui in 2005, although it would have been dimmer. I think the Mask of Light animations show this the most accurately. The suns also continued to follow a day-night cycle somehow. I don't have an explanation as to why there was so much daylight in the movie Web of Shadows, nor can anyone explain why the sun holes look like moons in one of its scenes for no reason. After 2005, the level of daylight did not change, so Metru Nui was not completely in darkness, it just had fairly dim daylight. Presumably this changed when the Bohrok started clearing Mata Nui in 2007.

 

The fact that Metru Nui had a day-night cycle at all and that the twin suns rose and set like normal suns has also never been explained. I asked Greg recently if the rising and setting of the suns were tied to Mata Nui's sleep cycle, and he said yes.

 

Greg has explained offhandedly that the other domes were lit by lightstones in the roofs of the domes that similarly followed a day-night cycle. They must have been really big, really strong lightstones.


Edited by Planetperson, Feb 13 2018 - 07:32 AM.

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#34 Offline Toatapio Nuva

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Posted Feb 13 2018 - 09:49 AM

 

The fact that Metru Nui had a day-night cycle at all and that the twin suns rose and set like normal suns has also never been explained. I asked Greg recently if the rising and setting of the suns were tied to Mata Nui's sleep cycle, and he said yes.

 

I'm pretty sure the suns didn't rise and set. Rather, they would dim and brighten according to Mata Nui's sleep cycle. I do recall some of the characters mentioning rising and setting in the books, but that may be something to take more figuratively than literally.

 

If Greg himself said that the suns rise and set though... well, there's another thing to be replaced by head-canon.


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#35 Offline bohrokmaster

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Posted Feb 15 2018 - 04:15 PM

 

No, but really, the GB's just didn't make much sense. The planet's gonna go to war and break itself? Better make Godbot MK2 and NOT put any of the planet's inhabitants on it while also doing nothing to stop the corrupt politicians we created and should therefore be able to destroy, and who are ultimately causing the problem here!

 

There was a fanfic I had an idea for way back that ditched this whole storyline for one that I thought made more sense, and removed the need to introduce multiple new species that were just equivalents of Matoran and Toa. My idea was that Mata Nui was a prototype weapon the Great Beings were developing to protect the inhabitants of Spherus Magna from the greatest evil in the universe: the Baterra. However, the Baterra arrived too early, and so a Great Being named Makoki loaded his consciousness onto the Great Spirit Robot and told everyone on Spherus Magna to hop aboard. They fled into space, and all of this was lost to history over the course of hundreds of thousands of years. The modern day inhabitants of the robot believed it to be the entire universe, and Makoki to be their "Great Spirit Mata Nui"

 

Also, Terridax was a Great Being too (who went by the name Mangai)  but he betrayed the others (including his brother Makoki) and secretly stowed aboard the Great Spirit Robot and corrupted one of the members of the Makuta race. He alone was Makuta Nui, "The Great Makuta."

 

 

Cool. I can't wait to read your Fanfic! ^_^  Do you think the GBs would count as 'magical' scientists? Considering they have a mixture of talent between magic, technology creation(?), and science?


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#36 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Feb 22 2018 - 05:18 PM

Bohrok question: All of the Bohrok other than Lehvak have control over one of the 6 prime elements, whereas Lehvak controls acid. If the other 5 types of Borhok have powers relating to actual elements, as do most of the Bohrok-Kal as well, should Acid be considered an element? Or would it be a power that falls under another element, such as Plantlife/The Green, as with how Lehvak-Kal's control of Vacuum is considered a manipulation of the element of Air?


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#37 Offline Iron_Man5

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Posted Feb 22 2018 - 05:33 PM

Bohrok question: All of the Bohrok other than Lehvak have control over one of the 6 prime elements, whereas Lehvak controls acid. If the other 5 types of Borhok have powers relating to actual elements, as do most of the Bohrok-Kal as well, should Acid be considered an element? Or would it be a power that falls under another element, such as Plantlife/The Green, as with how Lehvak-Kal's control of Vacuum is considered a manipulation of the element of Air?

I believe it was because the function of each Bohrok type was to destroy the island in one way or another, and Acid was a lot more effective than air in "cleaning" it up. That would be the only reason why it's different in it's particular powers.


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#38 Offline SamDrew

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Posted Feb 22 2018 - 05:36 PM

 

Bohrok question: All of the Bohrok other than Lehvak have control over one of the 6 prime elements, whereas Lehvak controls acid. If the other 5 types of Borhok have powers relating to actual elements, as do most of the Bohrok-Kal as well, should Acid be considered an element? Or would it be a power that falls under another element, such as Plantlife/The Green, as with how Lehvak-Kal's control of Vacuum is considered a manipulation of the element of Air?

I believe it was because the function of each Bohrok type was to destroy the island in one way or another, and Acid was a lot more effective than air in "cleaning" it up. That would be the only reason why it's different in it's particular powers.

 

Yeah I get why it's a thing in a practical behind-the-scenes sense, but usually at some point with Bionicle there's story added to explain these sort of things, even if they're mainly there for plot convenience. I'm wondering more what the in-story explanation/rationale would be, particularly in relation to where Acid powers fit in the elemental spectrum, if at all.


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#39 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Feb 22 2018 - 06:17 PM

I vaguely remember that, for a long time, Lightning was seen as a "power" and not a proper "element" as well, until Toa Nikila was introduced in 2007. I think Greg was pretty hard about Acid never being introduced as an official element.

 

Vacuum was considered a sub-power simply because, logically, anyone who can control Air can control "Vacuum," because that's just the absence of Air.


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#40 Offline Pohaturon

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Posted Feb 22 2018 - 08:09 PM

Okay, so, in MoL, Gali notices a seventh Toa star. 

It is later explained that Toa stars within the MU appear on the "ceiling screen" or whatever which simulated the sky because the GSR's programming allowed the sensors to detect Toa and then indicate their presence with lights (this being a huge tactical disadvantage in conflict is a whole other can of worms, like the enemy will know the exact number of Toa just by looking at the sky.... w/e).

 

But on the island of Mata Nui, the sky is actually the sky. So what's up with the Mata/Takanuva Toa stars? How and why do they exist?

 

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