Discussion: The Future Of Bzpower

**Gatanui** · December 31, 2011

HOLD IT!Removing the Bionicle "taint" would only make things worse. We're barely a Bionicle site as it is. Don't believe me? Look at this topic. Notice the fact that you have to scroll down the main page for quite a bit to see anything Bionicle related.The line's end (save for the storyline), along with the downtime, have discouraged many people from coming to this site. Removing more Bionicle will cause many people to leave. Don't believe me? Look how active Storyline and Theories is.Of course, a good direction would be making the site more Lego-oriented (I thought the countless Lego news articles and lack of Hapori Dume/Tohu meant this was happening, but oh well) by cultivating activity in those respective parts of the forums. More people like Lego period than just Hero Factory. Making these forums HFPower would only draw more people away.*gets penny for sharing thoughts*

Although I do like HERO Factory, turning BZPower into a HERO Factory site would indeed be a very bad move. There is not enough to discuss about HERO Factory for a big forum like this and noone can guarantee it won´t be replaced with another constraction series in 2013. And what would we do then? A far better move is a LEGO forum with a special orientation on constraction which is not likely to disappear in a near future.BZPower definitely is becoming more LEGO-oriented, although the change in the news articles is mostly due to the lack of BIONICLE news nowadays. Still, I feel what has already been done is not enough, for reasons stated earlier.~Gata.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Gatanui

**Ballom Nom Nom** · December 31, 2011

My suggestion is to create a moderated forum for political discussion which could only be accessed by members whose age is over 15, for example. This is technically possible and would allow political discussions, while keeping them as controllable as possible.
Hooray for age generalizations.How is it technically possible? People could always falsify their ages.
I suppose you will agree that most twelve-year-olds understand very little about politics, although there are always exceptions. BZPower will have to set an age border if they want to guarantee a mature and flaming-free discussion. There are age borders for participating in political elections and watching contents of certain nature as well and nobody questions that, either.As for people falsifying their ages: That's their problem, not ours. BZPower is a children-friendly site and we have the software and the measures to ensure it stays a children-friendly site. If members decide to falsify their age and access contents we do not consider to be appropriate for them, they do it at their own risk. BZPower cannot be made responsible either if a member is continuously bullied via PM and if he does not contact the staff so they can take measures.

I've seen a lot of people on various political sites claiming to be adults who act incredibly immature and flame constantly, so in my mind allowing only older members to participate doesn't guarantee mature discussion either. Really, if there is to be political discussion involved, it should be without age restrictions, and come with prominent warnings that rules regarding flame and rudeness will be enforced very strictly, with Proto drops and suspension from posting occurring sooner than they do for infractions elsewhere. This would also allow mature younger members to participate.As for the future of BZP as a whole, and how its focus might chance, I completely agree with DeeVee's suggestions about a constraction figure site.~B~

Legolover-361 · December 31, 2011

I admit I only read the first several posts and skimmed over the rest, so forgive me if I mention a point already struck down.I do agree with the members who say BZPower needs to expand from being just a Bionicle forum to a general Lego forum (and as Cederak said, having a COT Library forum would be nice). However, in the same vein, we can't just let go of Bionicle. We're Bionicle Zone Power not just in name but in fact. Most of us joined because we like Bionicle; I for one would love to see Bionicle return after a suitably long hiatus. Letting go entirely of Bionicle would undermine half the community BZPower has nourished -- and don't forget we have at least two Lego employees here (Binkmeister and GregF) who worked hard on Bionicle's website and its storyline, respectively.I have to agree with a few members before me that light, intelligent political discussion would be nice to have allowed. Obviously flaming or criticizing shouldn't be allowed, and maybe there should be a specific forum for all those debates so they don't envelop all of BZPower, but I for one would love to hear other Lego fans' takes on politics.If BZPower is to recover from its six-month-long downtime, it should take the following steps:

[*]Update the graphics. As of this writing, the front page is all Bionicle whereas the forums have rather default-looking graphics. Sprucing up BZPower's appearance wouldn't hurt any.[*]Expand BZPower's focus. While Bionicle should stay in the forefront, more emphasis on other constructable figures would be welcome. The chain of priority would probably be Bionicle > constructable figures and Technic > the rest of Lego.[*]Expand COT. Even if the expansion consists only of adding a COT library forum, a politics forum, or even more contests, COT should be more than a mishmash of random topics.[*]Form partnerships with other (appropriate) sites. The fact that Twitter is allowed to be linked but other, tamer sites aren't sounds odd to me. Thankfully Gatanui stated in this topic's first post that the staff were working on updated site linking rules, so we should only have to wait.[*]Facilitate intelligent discussion. Teens often come onto the internet because they can find no one who shares their interests in real life. Let's get more discussions than "Do You Think Bionicle Will Come Back?" This topic is a step toward that, I think, especially because I've seen no flaming or even heated arguing here (I'm so proud of you guys!).

That's all I have at the moment.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Legolover-361

Dralcax · December 31, 2011

<p>All right, here we go...BZP was created for the sole purpose of having a forum that discussed BIONICLE. If it were to abandon that now, I'd think that even more members would be leaving. Sure, I agree that, even though BIONICLE has been dead for almost two years, we can't just move on to LEGO. We already have several LEGO subforums, yet it doesn't appear those are very talkative, to be honest. There are members who are on here to bring back BIONICLE, to write, to design, to discuss - everything related to BIONICLE in some mannerism. They can talk Hero Factory all they want, create things related to Hero Factory if they care to. But everybody is united to BIONICLE specifically. If we leave that toyline, it will die. Let me refresh everybody's memories with what Greg Farshety said awhile back:"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back."As long as we continue discussing BIONICLE, it will continue to live on. If we abandon the discussion of the sets now, it's doomed to a nonexistence, and it will probably become a mere memory if we were to revert to the discussion of LEGO sets. Sure, many of us probably enjoy LEGO instead of BIONICLE, but the two, individually speaking, are the same. But even if that's a fact, it shouldn't slightly jeopardize BIONICLE's future of

Bionicle IS back. It was rebooted, renovated, upgraded, and renamed Hero Factory.

Like others have said, Bionicle is going nowhere. If anything, it took a nosedive at the beginning of this year. Sure, we had the Stars, but I didn't consider those worth my money. The story was deteriorating, turning to magical gold armor that kills everything, or a moon that kills the most powerful being in reality. Bottom line: Bionicle is gone and was quite ready to go. So I propose, like many others have, that we convert to an all-Lego site. Lego games forum, Lego Media, in fact, Lego collectibles. Do we not have those kinds of things in Lego?Then, Lego RPG. Kick up a LegoRPG, and three fan-made RPGs voted on by the players. Just like Bionicle RPG. I can see that being popular. The next step? Two RPG forums for liscenced and originals by Lego, with an official RPG and three voted in one's for each forum.Following that, Lego comics. Shops and kits to encourage comic-makers.Recently, we've gotten themes like Harry Potter, and soon, Lord of the Rings. I think this is an era of maturity for Lego. Maybe we can mature along with it?

Yup.

My suggestion is to create a moderated forum for political discussion which could only be accessed by members whose age is over 15, for example. This is technically possible and would allow political discussions, while keeping them as controllable as possible.
Hooray for age generalizations.How is it technically possible? People could always falsify their ages.
I suppose you will agree that most twelve-year-olds understand very little about politics, although there are always exceptions. BZPower will have to set an age border if they want to guarantee a mature and flaming-free discussion. There are age borders for participating in political elections and watching contents of certain nature as well and nobody questions that, either.As for people falsifying their ages: That's their problem, not ours. BZPower is a children-friendly site and we have the software and the measures to ensure it stays a children-friendly site. If members decide to falsify their age and access contents we do not consider to be appropriate for them, they do it at their own risk. BZPower cannot be made responsible either if a member is continuously bullied via PM and if he does not contact the staff so they can take measures.
I've seen a lot of people on various political sites claiming to be adults who act incredibly immature and flame constantly, so in my mind allowing only older members to participate doesn't guarantee mature discussion either. Really, if there is to be political discussion involved, it should be without age restrictions, and come with prominent warnings that rules regarding flame and rudeness will be enforced very strictly, with Proto drops and suspension from posting occurring sooner than they do for infractions elsewhere. This would also allow mature younger members to participate.As for the future of BZP as a whole, and how its focus might chance, I completely agree with DeeVee's suggestions about a constraction figure site.~B~

Sometimes people don't care enough and go, "Oh, screw this, I'll chose this random candidate and support him". And the minute someone tries to be the first female president, BAM! Huge gender-based flame war. Members would just be generally unkind elswhere to avoid the consequences of the forum. Politics is a bad idea. Disagreement is good, it generates positive discussion and debate. But politics and religion cross the line into controversy, which involves more passionate opinions and an increased chance of flaming.

fishers64 · December 31, 2011

I am not certain. I do see a few new members coming in...a few "Inhabitants" running around the forums, but I don't see a lot of them. A lot of the old members are missing, perhaps because of the downtime. This is Bionicle Zone Power. Bionicle and this site are inevitably linked. But think the only way Bionicle can survive is through creative projects done by the fans. People always forget the context of that famous GregF quote about Star Trek fans saving Star Trek. I cannot pull that up due to BS01 being down and out, but he said that, to paraphrase, that "the kid who draws a picture of a Toa" was the thing that would keep Bionicle alive. So BZP needs to recognize that, which means that these forums need to recognize that creative work more. And, I suggest that if you want to save Bionicle and/or BZPower, you should try your hand at some creative work.There is still discussion going on in S&T: the story is not completely dead yet.I see a lot of discussion going on in the Lego/Hero Factory oriented forums. That should stay to bring in new people. I would like to see a minor (emphasis on minor) front page redesign to emphasize where that discussion is, which is why I want the Hot Topics box back. I also want a front page box to feature some creative work or other that's getting a lot of attention, or to feature something. This could likely be in the place of that ancient link to the Glatorian on the front page. Maybe the Member Spotlight could be modified to show recent topics they posted in or their sig. Small changes like that, nothing huge that's going to put the site out of commission for another six months. We might work on making some skin options, both those that appeal to generic Lego fans and some that appeal to the Bionicle crowd.Bottom line: I think BZP's best chance of survival is to emphasize Bionicle creative work and standard Lego discussion about Hero Factory and whatnot. This discussion should supplement, not override, our Bionicle core. And since Lego isn't dispensing new creative work of Bionicle to discuss, we should turn inwards and discuss our own work. That's what I think.

Aanchir · December 31, 2011

I agree with the kids who don't want the forums to become entirely LEGO system oriented. We are a BIONICLE forum, and we should do what seems natural now that BIONICLE doesn't exist- become a constraction figure site. BIONICLE, Hero Factory, the Superhero sets, we could go backwards and add discussions for super-super-dead one-off themes like roboriders and Throwbots (though that seems silly?), things like that. TLG has been talking as if they'd like to eventually have multiple constraction figure lines out at the same time, and I mean hey, they'll have two out at once this year, and if that stays successful... We don't have to become a generalized LEGO forum (though I approve of our current "here's a bunch of general LEGO news articles" thing, just because it's nice to keep up with the wider community), but we're basically already doing this, and it should just become official, and BZPower should become the Premier LEGO Constraction Figure Forum. The other LEGO forums out there focus on themes that don't have intricate stories like BIONICLE did, and they do fine, so those people who are like "but Hero Factory doesn't have enough story"... well, I mean, if they can do it, we can do it, and we have some pretty dedicated fans. The story fans are going to be a little less active, that's a given, but I feel like there are enough of us who are more set and build oriented that we could have this work.Also, we should absolutely work on making the front-page member-creation spotlight more current, more often, and more prominent. It boggles my mind that it hasn't been done already.

I kind of have mixed feelings about what other people are saying here. Some people seem to be thinking our focus should mostly be on Hero Factory because it's a constraction line, while others say there's not much to discuss about Hero Factory or other LEGO themes because of their weaker stories. Both ignore that BIONICLE can't be generalized so easily, nor can BZPower's heritage. BIONICLE was both a story theme and a constraction theme, and the discussion of its constraction sets here at BZPower has to my knowledge been about even with discussion of its complex story.This is why I like the setup BZPower has now in a lot of ways. Hero Factory, as BIONICLE's most direct successor, has some special treatment. But there's also plenty of room for general LEGO discussion, including other story-driven themes like Exo-Force, Knights' Kingdom, and Ninjago. I don't think the site needs to expand further into other LEGO themes-- for instance, there's no reason we'd need a dedicated forum for every System theme like we have for Hero Factory.And at the same time, I think the BZPower community will be enough to maintain balance in what is discussed. The themes with the most in common with BIONICLE, such as Ninjago and Hero Factory, will continue to have the most discussion. I think it's noteworthy to observe that there has not been much discussion of LEGO Star Wars or LEGO City on this site despite those being two of the most popular LEGO themes, reinforcing my belief that BZPower's heritage as a BIONICLE site gives it a very unique perspective, vastly different than most other LEGO fansites. BZPower members in general are attracted to themes that reflect what they liked about BIONICLE, whether that's a theme like Ninjago for its complex multimedia storytelling or a theme like Hero Factory for its sets.To maintain the site's health I think we need to find a way to advertise as a site celebrating this sort of unconventional LEGO discussion. And IMO that doesn't mean limiting ourselves to a site about constraction themes any more than it means limiting ourselves to a site about story-driven themes. What it does mean, I'm not sure. But BIONICLE's legacy isn't limited to the loose category of constraction sets.

Peach 00 · December 31, 2011

<p>All right, here we go...BZP was created for the sole purpose of having a forum that discussed BIONICLE. If it were to abandon that now, I'd think that even more members would be leaving. Sure, I agree that, even though BIONICLE has been dead for almost two years, we can't just move on to LEGO. We already have several LEGO subforums, yet it doesn't appear those are very talkative, to be honest. There are members who are on here to bring back BIONICLE, to write, to design, to discuss - everything related to BIONICLE in some mannerism. They can talk Hero Factory all they want, create things related to Hero Factory if they care to. But everybody is united to BIONICLE specifically. If we leave that toyline, it will die. Let me refresh everybody's memories with what Greg Farshety said awhile back:"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back."As long as we continue discussing BIONICLE, it will continue to live on. If we abandon the discussion of the sets now, it's doomed to a nonexistence, and it will probably become a mere memory if we were to revert to the discussion of LEGO sets. Sure, many of us probably enjoy LEGO instead of BIONICLE, but the two, individually speaking, are the same. But even if that's a fact, it shouldn't slightly jeopardize BIONICLE's future of
Bionicle IS back. It was rebooted, renovated, upgraded, and renamed Hero Factory.

No. Completely different line, replaced BIONICLE, is named something else, and doesn't have anything to do with BIONICLE. So explain to me how it has any relation whatsoever to BIONICLE besides the fact that it replaced it. BIONICLE has never been back since it got replaced, and even though I stick with the concept that BIONICLE is dead and we should move on, I hate the perspective that HF is BIONICLE, when it really isn't it. If it were BIONICLE, it'd have the exact same story, the same characters, and the same name. Otherwise, completely different. To me, Hero Factory is nothing like its predecessor, period end of story.

Waffles · December 31, 2011

The idea that many are proposing is that since we are the largest, and pretty much the only (there are other constraction forums, but much more unknown than this) constraction sites, we should appeal to newcomers as a contraction site. The idea that there's no reason why System fans would want to join here is valid, is is still worth a shot.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Waffles

Aanchir · January 1, 2012

<p>All right, here we go...BZP was created for the sole purpose of having a forum that discussed BIONICLE. If it were to abandon that now, I'd think that even more members would be leaving. Sure, I agree that, even though BIONICLE has been dead for almost two years, we can't just move on to LEGO. We already have several LEGO subforums, yet it doesn't appear those are very talkative, to be honest. There are members who are on here to bring back BIONICLE, to write, to design, to discuss - everything related to BIONICLE in some mannerism. They can talk Hero Factory all they want, create things related to Hero Factory if they care to. But everybody is united to BIONICLE specifically. If we leave that toyline, it will die. Let me refresh everybody's memories with what Greg Farshety said awhile back:"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back."As long as we continue discussing BIONICLE, it will continue to live on. If we abandon the discussion of the sets now, it's doomed to a nonexistence, and it will probably become a mere memory if we were to revert to the discussion of LEGO sets. Sure, many of us probably enjoy LEGO instead of BIONICLE, but the two, individually speaking, are the same. But even if that's a fact, it shouldn't slightly jeopardize BIONICLE's future of
Bionicle IS back. It was rebooted, renovated, upgraded, and renamed Hero Factory.
No. Completely different line, replaced BIONICLE, is named something else, and doesn't have anything to do with BIONICLE. So explain to me how it has any relation whatsoever to BIONICLE besides the fact that it replaced it. BIONICLE has never been back since it got replaced, and even though I stick with the concept that BIONICLE is dead and we should move on, I hate the perspective that HF is BIONICLE, when it really isn't it. If it were BIONICLE, it'd have the exact same story, the same characters, and the same name. Otherwise, completely different. To me, Hero Factory is nothing like its predecessor, period end of story.

I agree, even though I'm a big fan of both themes. Calling BIONICLE and Hero Factory the same thing is an insult to both themes, because it ignores any of the unique reasons people might prefer one theme to the other.It does have a lot of things in common with BIONICLE, such as many aspects of the building system, non-human characters with mechanical-looking parts, the target audience of the theme, and several of the types of media the theme tells its story through. At the same time, it also has a lot of differences from BIONICLE that should be obvious to a fan of either theme. The Hero Factory story has a lot less complex world-building and a more episodic format than BIONICLE's story. The Hero Factory sets tend to have a simpler, more intuitive build than the BIONICLE sets, and smoother parts with fewer complex details. Hero Factory media is often sillier and more lighthearted than BIONICLE media. Hero Factory web media, such as online games and Hero Recon Team, have focused more on customization than BIONICLE online media, which usually sought to tell stories. BIONICLE has had chapter books and movies to tell its story, while Hero Factory has had television episodes.It's easy to be a fan of both themes if the things you liked about them are the things they have in common, and it's even possible to a fan if you like the things that make each theme unique, but saying Hero Factory is the same as BIONICLE is about as insulting to both themes as it is to BIONICLE when AFOLs say that all BIONICLE sets look the same. It paints the themes with broad strokes and ignores the details that make them special. I'm very glad that BZPower has been smart enough to keep a lot of the Hero Factory and BIONICLE discussion separate, even though there are plenty of forums and topics where the two can be compared with one another on various levels. Edited January 1, 2012 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

Peach 00 · January 1, 2012

The idea that many are proposing is that since we are the largest, and pretty much the only (there are other constraction forums, but much more unknown than this) constraction sites, we should appeal to newcomers as a contraction site. The idea that there's no reason why System fans would want to join here is valid, is is still worth a shot.

Then why do that? Create a number of sites devoted to System, LEGO - anything besides BIONICLE. People can still be on two forums, and rather replacing BIONICLE, just create another site devoted to LEGO, which might be as large as BZP in a short amount of time. Just one site, not even two or three. It would be simpler to just do that, as you would keep the members on BZP that are on here and gain even more on the second site. You have the same flow of traffic, and it would be moderated the same way as BZP is, maybe a little differently if necessary, as probably there would be even younger members on there than on BZP. I would have no problem with that, honestly.For the second time I’ll rant a little bit more, since when editing my post to delete typos, apparently the forums ate away half of my post. So, I’ll shorten what I said at the later part of my previous post and say some other things I didn’t mention previously.So, here’s what I discussed at the later part of my first post: Age restriction is truly ridiculous. It can enrage members who are younger than fifteen. I myself would be enraged by that, because I, with probably a group of a few fifty or hundred members would feel excluded from that section of the forum, even if I didn’t have interest in it. The mere fact that I wouldn’t be allowed to post there would make me feel like the older members get a special perk that members below that age group can’t get. I’m sure 15-year-old members would feel the same way if there were 17 and up age restriction on a sub forum. It just wouldn’t be fair, but then again, nothing is really fair.And political discussion would be great, if it weren’t for the small factor that members would start trolling and flaming. Which would be the problem, but as long as the forum were moderated properly, then it might be possible to do it. If certain members frequently trolled the forum, a one-week suspension should be put on the member, or at least an amount of time that would teach the person a lesson. But hey, I doubt political discussion will ever be allowed on BZP, as the clash of conservatives, socialists, liberals, republicans, radicals, and democrats would not go well. Besides, the staff are strict about dozens of things on here, but there are a few things I don’t understand why they are allowed.But I’m getting off topic here. An all-LEGO forum would be unsuccessful for these reasons:

[*]

BIONICLE was the reason this site was created. Abandoning the purpose of BZP’s existence wouldn’t work at all – the site would have to be renamed for LEGO, and its famous mascot would be replaced with a giant LEGO mini-figure’s head than the glorious Hapori Tohu. Replacing that would just make BIONICLE a memory – what some of you are proposing is to simply push out BIONICLE and make it something that’s nonexistent. Remembering it isn’t the same, and although Sumiki has already said that we aren’t really saying that, I have no doubt that some people do think that having simply a LEGO forum, not a BIONICLE forum.

[*]

If only it were replacing BIONICLE, you’d lose traffic from BIONICLE fans. Sure, there might be some BIONICLE and LEGO fans, and on the plus side you might still keep them if you have a greater interest with LEGO. But the problem is, the site would have to be completely rearranged, and even more restrictions, as there would be a flow of younger members that would be swarming in. That being said, there would be stricter policies, and probably less enjoyment to the older crowd. Besides, moderating 8-year-olds might not be the best thing to the staff, as they aren’t as mature as the older crowd of 15-year-olds and 18-year-olds.

[*]

Restrictions. Enough said.

[*]

Blogs might be rid of, rank images would have to be seriously changed, and 11 years of hard work would be thrown down the toilet. The site was built for the discussion of BIONICLE. Changed whatsoever by deleting that section of discussion would mean a total makeover for the site. If you push out BIONICLE, you might as well push every single inch of anything to do with it out of the site if people want a LEGO forum so bad.[*]BIONICLE fiction is a good part of the site. There wouldn’t be much to write about, not much to draw – BIONICLE has such an intricate design, and most of us love to create it, write it, and draw it. If LEGO were to become a part of this site, forget all that.

So let’s face it. Too much would be rid of if it changed to LEGO. BIONICLE should stay the subject of the site, and jeopardizing that would scare off a lot of members from the site. About 200 members on here are here to bring back BIONICLE. Or 20 or so, I haven’t seen the amount of members in the BBB club, so it depends. Anyway, the future of BZP? BIONICLE. Keep it at that and I think we’ll be set, maybe create a broader section of the forums for HF and LEGO for members who don’t have as big an interest in BIONICLE anymore. But I’m sorry, if BIONICLE were to be replaced on the forum like it was replaced by Hero Factory as a toy line, then BIONICLE would basically be nonexistent. Remember Greg’s quote, people, remember it:"Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back."

**dviddy** · January 1, 2012

Nobody is saying that we would remove all BIONICLE content, quite the contrary. And I can tell you even if we switched to an equal-access, all LEGO themed site, with an equal focus on all themes, BIONICLE would still be important, and we wouldn't be getting rid of any of our ranks, or good ol' Hapori Tohu. Those things would always be with us.

Just A Dot · January 1, 2012

I honestly don't believe we need to change our focus to System or other themes completely. Sure, open up a few sub-forums, but as previously stated, we are a BIONICLE forum. BIONICLE is not dead yet. I am hopeful that the story will eventually be updated again, and if it continues to expand at regular intervals, discussion on BIONICLE would stay alive. But why stay on only LEGO? I made friends with most of the people in my life because we shared a common interest, but we do not limit our selves to only discuss that topic. BZPower will stay alive with the COT board. We joined together with BIONICLE, and we can take off from there.I honestly don't believe we need to change our focus to System or other themes completely. Sure, open up a few sub-forums, but as previously stated, we are a BIONICLE forum. BIONICLE is not dead yet. I am hopeful that the story will eventually be updated again, and if it continues to expand at regular intervals, discussion on BIONICLE would stay alive. But why stay on only LEGO? I made friends with most of the people in my life because we shared a common interest, but we do not limit our selves to only discuss that topic. BZPower will stay alive with the COT board. We joined together with BIONICLE, and we can take off from there.

Peach 00 · January 1, 2012

Nobody is saying that we would remove all BIONICLE content, quite the contrary. And I can tell you even if we switched to an equal-access, all LEGO themed site, with an equal focus on all themes, BIONICLE would still be important, and we wouldn't be getting rid of any of our ranks, or good ol' Hapori Tohu. Those things would always be with us.

Maybe I was wrong to suggest that, but Gata was proposing that idea to change it to LEGO and let go of BIONICLE, so that's basically what I went off about. I'd consider that would be the least bit ludicrous, as, like I've repeated several times, BZP was made for discussing BIONICLE, not just LEGO.

Visaru · January 1, 2012

I have to agree with most people here. Increasing the focus of Lego is very good, but we should't change the main focus from Bionicle. Maybe we should fuse some less frequented forums. (Media discussion and digital discussion would be good IMO). I don't think we should change the name, or the main way the forums work. I like the orginazation. Story nerds can stay in S&T forum, construction nerds can stay in Set discussion, and those who have lost interest in Bionicle can stay in Lego discussion. I think the site has already taken big strides towards a more Lego-focused site. Political discussion is a bad idea, I think. Politics is one of those things that people decide, then don't change. Most people have a political view, and can't be convinced to change it. Of course, it's possible and fun to have a good political discussion. But it's also very possible for people to start flaming and get angry, as people have said. Anyway, Bionicle probably doesn't influence politics, so if you want to talk politics, you can go to other sites.But organizing Off Topic Discussion is a good idea. It's a mishmash in there.Anyway. Just my two cents.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Visaru

Klak · January 1, 2012

I have to agree with most people here. Increasing the focus of Lego is very good, but we should't change the main focus from Bionicle. Maybe we should fuse some less frequented forums. (Media discussion and digital discussion would be good IMO). I don't think we should change the name, or the main way the forums work. I like the orginazation. Story nerds can stay in S&T forum, construction nerds can stay in Set discussion, and those who have lost interest in Bionicle can stay in Lego discussion. I think the site has already taken big strides towards a more Lego-focused site.Political discussion is a bad idea, I think. Politics is one of those things that people decide, then don't change. Most people have a political view, and can't be convinced to change it. Of course, it's possible and fun to have a good political discussion. But it's also very possible for people to start flaming and get angry, as people have said. Anyway, Bionicle probably doesn't influence politics, so if you want to talk politics, you can go to other sites.But organizing Off Topic Discussion is a good idea. It's a mishmash in there.Anyway. Just my two cents.

I agree completely. Especially the politics part. Through many debates that people have had here, I've been able to tell that not many are mature enough to keep a level head during a political discussion (no offense). The forums would go down in flames, just like Jesse James.

HOLD IT!Removing the Bionicle "taint" would only make things worse. We're barely a Bionicle site as it is. Don't believe me? Look at this topic. Notice the fact that you have to scroll down the main page for quite a bit to see anything Bionicle related.The line's end (save for the storyline), along with the downtime, have discouraged many people from coming to this site. Removing more Bionicle will cause many people to leave. Don't believe me? Look how active Storyline and Theories is.Of course, a good direction would be making the site more Lego-oriented (I thought the countless Lego news articles and lack of Hapori Dume/Tohu meant this was happening, but oh well) by cultivating activity in those respective parts of the forums. More people like Lego period than just Hero Factory. Making these forums HFPower would only draw more people away.*gets penny for sharing thoughts*
Although I do like HERO Factory, turning BZPower into a HERO Factory site would indeed be a very bad move. There is not enough to discuss about HERO Factory for a big forum like this and noone can guarantee it won´t be replaced with another constraction series in 2013. And what would we do then? A far better move is a LEGO forum with a special orientation on constraction which is not likely to disappear in a near future.BZPower definitely is becoming more LEGO-oriented, although the change in the news articles is mostly due to the lack of BIONICLE news nowadays. Still, I feel what has already been done is not enough, for reasons stated earlier.~Gata.

All we need is to give people an incentive to join the Lego/Construction discussion forums all throughout the site. Ending our Bionicle-ness is not an incentive.Like I said, making the forums Hero-Factory centered is not a good idea. As Gatanui said, HF will be replaced by another line someday. This will strike a tremendous blow to the site's member numbers. If we're going to use that logic, then we should make this a COT-centered site, since more people flock to that.

Toa Zaz · January 1, 2012

Ballom, although I do see how the age filter might spark some problems, scaring people into peaceful discussion doesn't seem like a great idea for encouraging activity. All for politics, though, so if there's going to be a political forum, I'll take it.

**Gatanui** · January 1, 2012

Nobody is saying that we would remove all BIONICLE content, quite the contrary. And I can tell you even if we switched to an equal-access, all LEGO themed site, with an equal focus on all themes, BIONICLE would still be important, and we wouldn't be getting rid of any of our ranks, or good ol' Hapori Tohu. Those things would always be with us.
Maybe I was wrong to suggest that, but Gata was proposing that idea to change it to LEGO and let go of BIONICLE, so that's basically what I went off about. I'd consider that would be the least bit ludicrous, as, like I've repeated several times, BZP was made for discussing BIONICLE, not just LEGO.

I believe you are misunderstanding me. I never suggested to let go of BIONICLE completely. BIONICLE-related discussion must go on, and we won't get rid of our mascot Tohu either. I think we all agree that eliminating BIONICLE from one day to the other and neglecting our origins would not be a good idea. But I think the presence of LEGO in general should increase on this site. Some like DV and Anchiir prefer restructuring BZPower as a constraction-centered forum, some, like me, go further and want to increase the presence of other LEGO themes as well.

Political discussion is a bad idea, I think. Politics is one of those things that people decide, then don't change. Most people have a political view, and can't be convinced to change it. Of course, it's possible and fun to have a good political discussion. But it's also very possible for people to start flaming and get angry, as people have said. Anyway, Bionicle probably doesn't influence politics, so if you want to talk politics, you can go to other sites.

Why, if I may ask? Politics is not all about saying "I am a Democrat/Republican." or stating what candidate you are going to elect, but also about discussing complex topics like globalization, climate change, poverty, etc. Why shouldn't I, for instance, be capable of convincing other people that globalization is bad for Third World countries (just an example) if I provide good arguments and reliable sources? And flaming can always be confronted with harsh administrative action. Some topics in COT could incite just as much to flaming as political discussion topics would do and yet, we have COT under control, apart from a few incidents that were (more or less) quickly resolved.As for your last point, I believe I already showed in a previous post that this kind of argument is not really valid. First of all BZPower is not all about BIONICLE, and second, if BZPower is not the place to talk about politics, it is not the place to talk about random, non-LEGO related topics either, so the COT forum should not exist in the first place.

It was bound to happen! When enough people who all enjoy the same thing, like Bionicle, get together, they eventually want to chat about other things. Here's the place to do it.

I believe the description of the COT forum sums up quite well the point of discussing non-LEGO related topics in a BIONICLE forum. Now, if people are allowed to discuss other topics like MLP, Power Rangers, Linkin Park or whatever, why shouldn't we be able to lead mature discussions about politics?~Gata.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Gatanui

Klak · January 1, 2012

Nobody is saying that we would remove all BIONICLE content, quite the contrary. And I can tell you even if we switched to an equal-access, all LEGO themed site, with an equal focus on all themes, BIONICLE would still be important, and we wouldn't be getting rid of any of our ranks, or good ol' Hapori Tohu. Those things would always be with us.
Maybe I was wrong to suggest that, but Gata was proposing that idea to change it to LEGO and let go of BIONICLE, so that's basically what I went off about. I'd consider that would be the least bit ludicrous, as, like I've repeated several times, BZP was made for discussing BIONICLE, not just LEGO.
I believe you are misunderstanding me. I never suggested to let go of BIONICLE completely. BIONICLE-related discussion must go on, and we won't get rid of our mascot Tohu either. I think we all agree that eliminating BIONICLE from one day to the other and neglecting our origins would not be a good idea. But I think the presence of LEGO in general should increase on this site. Some like DV and Anchiir prefer restructuring BZPower as a constraction-centered forum, some, like me, go further and want to increase the presence of other LEGO themes as well.
Political discussion is a bad idea, I think. Politics is one of those things that people decide, then don't change. Most people have a political view, and can't be convinced to change it. Of course, it's possible and fun to have a good political discussion. But it's also very possible for people to start flaming and get angry, as people have said. Anyway, Bionicle probably doesn't influence politics, so if you want to talk politics, you can go to other sites.
Why, if I may ask? Politics is not all about saying "I am a Democrat/Republican." or stating what candidate you are going to elect, but also about discussing complex topics like globalization, climate change, poverty, etc. Why shouldn't I, for instance, be capable of convincing other people that globalization is bad for Third World countries (just an example) if I provide good arguments and reliable sources?And flaming can always be confronted with harsh administrative action. Some topics in COT could incite just as much to flaming as political discussion topics would do and yet, we have COT under control, apart from a few incidents that were (more or less) quickly resolved.As for your last point, I believe I already showed in a previous post that this kind of argument is not really valid. First of all BZPower is not all about BIONICLE, and second, if BZPower is not the place to talk about politics, it is not the place to talk about random, non-LEGO related topics either, so the COT forum should not exist in the first place.
It was bound to happen! When enough people who all enjoy the same thing, like Bionicle, get together, they eventually want to chat about other things. Here's the place to do it.
I believe the description of the COT forum sums up quite well the point of discussing non-LEGO related topics in a BIONICLE forum. Now, if people are allowed to discuss other topics like MLP, Power Rangers, Linkin Park or whatever, why shouldn't we be able to lead mature discussions about politics?~Gata.

I'm all for political discussion. But, the fact is, there are many people on this site that are not so friendly when it comes to political discussion. Also, since children frequent the site, we need to consider what their parent's opinions would be.Of course, flaming can be answered. But I still think that leaves room for human error. Also, stricter rules might result in less members. Edited January 1, 2012 by MakutaKlak

**Ballom Nom Nom** · January 1, 2012

Ballom, although I do see how the age filter might spark some problems, scaring people into peaceful discussion doesn't seem like a great idea for encouraging activity. All for politics, though, so if there's going to be a political forum, I'll take it.

I wouldn't say it would go as far as to be scare tactics. It would be no different from when there are warnings not to post leaked content -- "Warning: Do not post leaked content from year X. Doing so may result in loss of proto." Those are pretty clear, but aren't a scare tactic. They just let everyone know what punishment may follow. Same could go for the political forum.But admittedly, discussion of such a forum is less important than discussion of BZP's overall direction.~B~

Cederak · January 1, 2012

Regardless of what direction BZPower takes next, some group is going to be in the minority. Staying with Bionicle will continue to alienate fans of System lines and Hero Factory, while shifting gears will drive off a portion of members who are still here because they truly enjoy Bionicle and the legacy it carries. It isn't hard to see how that legacy was injured by the downtime. Storyline and Theories has slowed to a crawl, the Expanded Multiverse (and the 100 page PDF made for it) seems nearly nonexistent on the new forums (not helped by the fact that it was never ported over), and BBC and the Library (while somewhat active) have noticeably less material coming in. Looking at some of the things discussed in this topic, it may not be a matter of appealing to the audiences BZPower has always held as secondary or more, but maintaining the loyal fan base BZPower and Bionicle already have. That doesn't mean a massive overhaul, restructuring of the site, and meeting the demands of those members (as they've clearly stuck around with few changes over the last decade anyway), but it definitely wouldn't hurt. It's clear what we all want to see changed, and the barriers standing between us. So it all comes down to what (if any) action the staff plans to take regarding the changes we'd like to see. They are not oblivious to what BZPower has become, nor are they unaware of this topic. Despite what we may want, ultimately, any change to this site is in their hands.-Ced

Toa of Nerds · January 1, 2012

Member creations should definately be put on the front page. This would encourage members to get invovled in making creations and commenting on them. Personally, I think that the responsability for making suggestions should be at the hands of the staff of those creative forums. They have to read every topic in there in anyway, so I don't think it would be a big deal to ask them to produce one suggestion per week. All it would take would be a PM saying: "Hey B6, found a cool MOC/Artwork/Epic/SS/Comedy for the front page [link]." That might get some movement on that issue, because I think posting member creations on the front page is essential for this site's survival.As for political discussion, I've got mixed feelings on the creation of a polical/religious subforum. On the one hand, if it was created, I would practically live there. And by live there I mean that I would actively participate in virtually every topic and create a new topic about every other week. On the other hand, I'm not sure if BZPower is mature enough yet. However, the fact that this topic has gone on with mature and honest discussion gives me some hope that reasonable political/religious discussion can exist. However, if such a subforum is created, it should not have any age restrictions at all. Whether or not a person is capable of discussing politics should depend on how they behave themselves in the forum, not based on their age. For example, I could have an intelligent politcal discussion when I was 12 (yeah, I know I'm wierd), but I know adults that appear to be incapable of discussing such topics. Ironically, the only way to find out if BZPower is capable of having a politcal forum may be to just create one and then buckle up for the ride.In this vein, COT should be re-structured. At the least, there should be seperate "COT Library" and "COT RPG" subforums. This would go very far towards making BZPower a great community to be a part of.Also, some of the rules need to be changed. The word filter is out-dated, and the inability to link to certain sites (even though everybody knows what they are) is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Such rules don't really do much to protect children, and, in my view, only serve to drive prospective members away from BZPower.Beside all this, BZPower should always remain a Bionicle site at its core. I do favor more expanded discussion of other Lego lines, particularly constraction lines. However, the day that BZPower loses that Bionicle-ness is the day that it loses its soul.-don't touch my pocket protector

Peach 00 · January 2, 2012

About politics: I'm all for it. I've always stood by that stance, and I agree with Gata that discussing global issues, including the state of our country, what needs to be and other controversial topics should be discussed. And children frequeting the site isn't a problem: Don't have an interest in it, don't want to discuss it, don't go to that section of the forum. People who have an interest in that discussion go there, and even if young kids understand it, then they are welcome to discuss it. I support the idea fully - as Gata said, it would be awesome to discuss issues like poverty, climate change, global warming, etc.. Basically all those topics that, if you discuss them anywhere else, people would be cursing at each other and continue to flame. Not that flame wars won't occur here, but if the forum is moderated properly, then things like that won't break out.

Let's Henshin! · January 2, 2012

Political discussion is a bad idea, I think. Politics is one of those things that people decide, then don't change. Most people have a political view, and can't be convinced to change it. Of course, it's possible and fun to have a good political discussion. But it's also very possible for people to start flaming and get angry, as people have said. Anyway, Bionicle probably doesn't influence politics, so if you want to talk politics, you can go to other sites.
Why, if I may ask? Politics is not all about saying "I am a Democrat/Republican." or stating what candidate you are going to elect, but also about discussing complex topics like globalization, climate change, poverty, etc. Why shouldn't I, for instance, be capable of convincing other people that globalization is bad for Third World countries (just an example) if I provide good arguments and reliable sources?And flaming can always be confronted with harsh administrative action. Some topics in COT could incite just as much to flaming as political discussion topics would do and yet, we have COT under control, apart from a few incidents that were (more or less) quickly resolved.As for your last point, I believe I already showed in a previous post that this kind of argument is not really valid. First of all BZPower is not all about BIONICLE, and second, if BZPower is not the place to talk about politics, it is not the place to talk about random, non-LEGO related topics either, so the COT forum should not exist in the first place.
It was bound to happen! When enough people who all enjoy the same thing, like Bionicle, get together, they eventually want to chat about other things. Here's the place to do it.
I believe the description of the COT forum sums up quite well the point of discussing non-LEGO related topics in a BIONICLE forum. Now, if people are allowed to discuss other topics like MLP, Power Rangers, Linkin Park or whatever, why shouldn't we be able to lead mature discussions about politics?~Gata.
I'm all for political discussion. But, the fact is, there are many people on this site that are not so friendly when it comes to political discussion. Also, since children frequent the site, we need to consider what their parent's opinions would be.Of course, flaming can be answered. But I still think that leaves room for human error. Also, stricter rules might result in less members.

You know I read an article in National Geographic which said that adolescents and teens tend to respond more to rewards than consequences, so I'm not sure being stricter will be enough to prevent flaming in a political discussion. That's not to say we shouldn't be stricter we should, but perhaps there should also be some sort of reward system for intelligent debate. Because quite frankly let's face it, few people post longer, thought provoking, posts when they can just post some one liner and get the same reward. Thus true intelligent debating is hard to come by. As for the focus of Bzpower, I believe it should still have separate Bionicle oriented in the Creative Outlet and the Storyline sub-forums. Since that's where the majority of Bionicle is left, the other forums should be broadened to Lego. Now for the most part this is how things are, which is good. However we also need some more emphasis on Lego in those forums, because in the descriptions it's always says "Bionicle and Lego" which, while I like the homage to the roots, can turn some people off, because it looks like Lego was just tacked on. Thus I have a feeling that some Lego enthusiasts will leave because they don't think we are in as much a mood to talk about Lego.Finally one more thing I've noticed is that in the Creative Outlet, people new to forum get really little feed back, this can drive some people away. However if a system was created where there was board of reviewers for this new members, then they could see some helpful advice which would in turn, most likely, inspire them to post some more. Now I know the library forum has something set up which is good, but BBC and SBC are sadly lacking in this department. Finally to help encourage these new comers, perhaps the front page should not just feature the great MOCs, but also some of the MOCs of new comers so they can get reviews, because even with judges, there are still going to be times when they are to busy to post reviews. Finally I think stuff from the library should also be posted on the front page to help generate more traffic.

**Comment Expired** · January 2, 2012

Okay, so:1. BZP was created to be family-friendly for young kids who were engaged in Bionicle. As a result the Forum was done up for all ages and avoids contraversial or non G-rated topics. It also disallows direct links to other sites it can't moderate to avoid said youngsters getting mixed up in something nasty.2. Bionicle is now dead. The kids who would have bought the toys and gone online to look into them no longer exist. In this current state BZP's community is only going to get older.So the content restriction rules are now practically useless.Two options:1. Reorient the forum into being focused on Hero Factory or general Lego or whatever. This way you still get the kid influx, and you can keep things as they were.2. Ditch the content restriction and actually grow up with the userbase. Become a general site.If BZP isn't going to become something kid-oriented again, then it really needs to lose the dumb content rules. Or at least loosen them.Unless B6 is a prude or something, in which case it can't be helped!

Peach 00 · January 2, 2012

Okay, so:1. BZP was created to be family-friendly for young kids who were engaged in Bionicle. As a result the Forum was done up for all ages and avoids contraversial or non G-rated topics. It also disallows direct links to other sites it can't moderate to avoid said youngsters getting mixed up in something nasty.2. Bionicle is now dead. The kids who would have bought the toys and gone online to look into them no longer exist. In this current state BZP's community is only going to get older.So the content restriction rules are now practically useless.Two options:1. Reorient the forum into being focused on Hero Factory or general Lego or whatever. This way you still get the kid influx, and you can keep things as they were.2. Ditch the content restriction and actually grow up with the userbase. Become a general site.If BZP isn't going to become something kid-oriented again, then it really needs to lose the dumb content rules. Or at least loosen them.Unless B6 is a prude or something, in which case it can't be helped!

The content rules are in there for a reason. People who are growing up and are still apart of the BZP community should be growing up by following rules. And making it a general site is not a good idea. It allows everything to be posted here: Objectional content, links to a video site that can't be named (which generally has a lot of crude comments with an enormous use of profanity in them), and a bunch of other things that definitely aren't kid-friendly. Unless you want to post something that isn't kid-oriented for the site and want it to become general, then I suggest you bring your business somewhere else. People growing up or not, kids probably are still joining and BZP needs the restrictions on content in order to keep it appropriate for kids, and even ages above that. Teenagers probably shouldn't be seeing certain material (You know what I'm referring to) even at the age of fiteen to 20 or so anyway, so making it a general site definitely wouldn't help.Nonetheless, the staff would not approve of a 'general' site with a constant steady flow of adults instead of kids. Sure, making it a little more oriented to LEGO and HF would be nice, but dumping BIONICLE isn't the solution. It's fine as is being BIONICLE.

**Comment Expired** · January 2, 2012

Teenagers probably shouldn't be seeing certain material (You know what I'm referring to) even at the age of fiteen to 20

20? Are you serious?!Incidentally I don't mean general as in XXX no holds barred spamfest. I mean general as in a forum that caters to the same interests as the userbase and is generally worksafe with NSFW links marked as such.So it'd probably just be about ponies. Edited January 2, 2012 by Am I Poplar Yet?

Peach 00 · January 2, 2012

Unless you mean that's too old, then that's a problem. Probably older, but sorry, people probably shouldn't even being seeing any type of material of that kind anyway. Doesn't matter what age group you're in, but it seems...wrong. Maybe people a little older than 20, but it's wrong.Oh, okay. I wasn't sure exactly what you mean, so sorry for assuming. But then again, I'd consider it to be generally LEGO with BIONICLE being still a large figure in the community, but more like COT becoming bigger instead of LEGO or something if that's what you mean. BIONICLE still needs to be attached to the site, though, just for the sake that it's the whole point of most of us being here.Haha, yeah. It'd probably end up just becoming MLPower at that point.

**Comment Expired** · January 2, 2012

Unless you mean that's too old, then that's a problem. Probably older, but sorry, people probably shouldn't even being seeing any type of material of that kind anyway. Doesn't matter what age group you're in, but it seems...wrong. Maybe people a little older than 20, but it's wrong.

What you may think is wrong is ultimately subjective. As such by age 16 I think everyone is old enough to make their own decision about it. Of course you don't post un-worksafe pictures on worksafe boards, that's just not sporting.

Klak · January 2, 2012

Okay, so:1. BZP was created to be family-friendly for young kids who were engaged in Bionicle. As a result the Forum was done up for all ages and avoids contraversial or non G-rated topics. It also disallows direct links to other sites it can't moderate to avoid said youngsters getting mixed up in something nasty.2. Bionicle is now dead. The kids who would have bought the toys and gone online to look into them no longer exist. In this current state BZP's community is only going to get older.So the content restriction rules are now practically useless.Two options:1. Reorient the forum into being focused on Hero Factory or general Lego or whatever. This way you still get the kid influx, and you can keep things as they were.2. Ditch the content restriction and actually grow up with the userbase. Become a general site.If BZP isn't going to become something kid-oriented again, then it really needs to lose the dumb content rules. Or at least loosen them.Unless B6 is a prude or something, in which case it can't be helped!

I don't exist? And BZP=/=Site with forums removed. -B6.

Political discussion is a bad idea, I think. Politics is one of those things that people decide, then don't change. Most people have a political view, and can't be convinced to change it. Of course, it's possible and fun to have a good political discussion. But it's also very possible for people to start flaming and get angry, as people have said. Anyway, Bionicle probably doesn't influence politics, so if you want to talk politics, you can go to other sites.
Why, if I may ask? Politics is not all about saying "I am a Democrat/Republican." or stating what candidate you are going to elect, but also about discussing complex topics like globalization, climate change, poverty, etc. Why shouldn't I, for instance, be capable of convincing other people that globalization is bad for Third World countries (just an example) if I provide good arguments and reliable sources?And flaming can always be confronted with harsh administrative action. Some topics in COT could incite just as much to flaming as political discussion topics would do and yet, we have COT under control, apart from a few incidents that were (more or less) quickly resolved.As for your last point, I believe I already showed in a previous post that this kind of argument is not really valid. First of all BZPower is not all about BIONICLE, and second, if BZPower is not the place to talk about politics, it is not the place to talk about random, non-LEGO related topics either, so the COT forum should not exist in the first place.
It was bound to happen! When enough people who all enjoy the same thing, like Bionicle, get together, they eventually want to chat about other things. Here's the place to do it.
I believe the description of the COT forum sums up quite well the point of discussing non-LEGO related topics in a BIONICLE forum. Now, if people are allowed to discuss other topics like MLP, Power Rangers, Linkin Park or whatever, why shouldn't we be able to lead mature discussions about politics?~Gata.
I'm all for political discussion. But, the fact is, there are many people on this site that are not so friendly when it comes to political discussion. Also, since children frequent the site, we need to consider what their parent's opinions would be.Of course, flaming can be answered. But I still think that leaves room for human error. Also, stricter rules might result in less members.
You know I read an article in National Geographic which said that adolescents and teens tend to respond more to rewards than consequences, so I'm not sure being stricter will be enough to prevent flaming in a political discussion. That's not to say we shouldn't be stricter we should, but perhaps there should also be some sort of reward system for intelligent debate. Because quite frankly let's face it, few people post longer, thought provoking, posts when they can just post some one liner and get the same reward. Thus true intelligent debating is hard to come by.As for the focus of Bzpower, I believe it should still have separate Bionicle oriented in the Creative Outlet and the Storyline sub-forums. Since that's where the majority of Bionicle is left, the other forums should be broadened to Lego. Now for the most part this is how things are, which is good. However we also need some more emphasis on Lego in those forums, because in the descriptions it's always says "Bionicle and Lego" which, while I like the homage to the roots, can turn some people off, because it looks like Lego was just tacked on. Thus I have a feeling that some Lego enthusiasts will leave because they don't think we are in as much a mood to talk about Lego.Finally one more thing I've noticed is that in the Creative Outlet, people new to forum get really little feed back, this can drive some people away. However if a system was created where there was board of reviewers for this new members, then they could see some helpful advice which would in turn, most likely, inspire them to post some more. Now I know the library forum has something set up which is good, but BBC and SBC are sadly lacking in this department. Finally to help encourage these new comers, perhaps the front page should not just feature the great MOCs, but also some of the MOCs of new comers so they can get reviews, because even with judges, there are still going to be times when they are to busy to post reviews. Finally I think stuff from the library should also be posted on the front page to help generate more traffic.

I agree. Also, there's a lot less creative feedback in the comedies, MOCs, etc. There has to be a way to attract more people to that.

Ballom, although I do see how the age filter might spark some problems, scaring people into peaceful discussion doesn't seem like a great idea for encouraging activity. All for politics, though, so if there's going to be a political forum, I'll take it.
I wouldn't say it would go as far as to be scare tactics. It would be no different from when there are warnings not to post leaked content -- "Warning: Do not post leaked content from year X. Doing so may result in loss of proto." Those are pretty clear, but aren't a scare tactic. They just let everyone know what punishment may follow. Same could go for the political forum.But admittedly, discussion of such a forum is less important than discussion of BZP's overall direction.~B~

Its true. Having a a political discussion subsection will not attract new members (unless there are people out there who are into going to toy fan forums to debate the disadvantages of globalization). It will just exist.

What you may think is wrong is ultimately subjective.

Careful where you're going with that. Edited January 2, 2012 by Black Six

Toa Zaz · January 2, 2012

Unless you mean that's too old, then that's a problem. Probably older, but sorry, people probably shouldn't even being seeing any type of material of that kind anyway. Doesn't matter what age group you're in, but it seems...wrong. Maybe people a little older than 20, but it's wrong.Oh, okay. I wasn't sure exactly what you mean, so sorry for assuming. But then again, I'd consider it to be generally LEGO with BIONICLE being still a large figure in the community, but more like COT becoming bigger instead of LEGO or something if that's what you mean. BIONICLE still needs to be attached to the site, though, just for the sake that it's the whole point of most of us being here.Haha, yeah. It'd probably end up just becoming MLPower at that point.

If 20-year-olds want to see this stuff, it's legally their choice (with a few exceptions). It's not necessarily "wrong" to them. Now, on political discussion, it's no mystery that this website's rules are stricter than most, if not all, other forums (don't try to deny it). Whether or not that's a good thing is debate in another topic. Believe it or not, this is what turns many people away from BZPower and go to other, less strict forums (I'd be able to prove this if it weren't for the no-forums rule). This may not be a bad thing, yadda yadda yadda, but if a political form is going to have increased rule enforcement, then that definitely doesn't seem like something a new member would want to be a part of. A stricter politics forum isn't going to get as many members as lose them.Somebody said something about rewards. That could be interesting. We could have debates on here, etc.

Peach 00 · January 2, 2012

Well, yeah, I guess that makes sense that it's legally their choice, but it's still wrong. Not to them, but they shouldn't even be looking at the material, regardless if it's their choice or not. And I'd say about 18 is a better age to make decisions, or 19. Teenagers aren't widely known for making good decisions. Nonetheless, I don't want argue any further with you. Let's just leave it at that.Simple: They don't need to be a part of it. It's their choice, and nobody's forcing them to be viewing any forum. If they want to be a part of it, then they're welcome to it. And nobody said anything about getting more members, it just would have to be a small subforum, and people would discuss political and global issues. As long as we don't go near sensitive areas in politics (it's debatable all areas are sensitive, but just the areas that usually bring out the most flame wars), I think it wouldn't be a bad idea. If people don;'t act maturely about things, give them a suspension or a proto drop. Still, it could work, but it'd need to be moderated thoroughly.

Legolover-361 · January 2, 2012

Maybe twenty-year-olds can legally see whatever content they'd like to see, but fifteen-year-olds? BZPower shouldn't loosen content rules in my opinion -- then it will become another site ruined by curse words, links to bad videos, and adult-content jokes. Honestly, if BZPower became that sort of site, I would leave; even if BZPower's content rules were loosened without becoming inappropriate for, say, ten-year-olds, non-worksafe sites shouldn't be linked on BZPower no matter what, even if they're mentioned as such -- and actually, mentioning them as such is even more dangerous, because teens would probably feel they can see anything and thus click the link. I stand firmly by my belief that adult content does not belong on BZPower.That said, as I stated before, I do agree that linking rules could be loosened a little. If we can link to Twitter, why not be able to link to kid-friendly forums?

Toa of Nerds · January 2, 2012

If BZPower ever becomes a place that I would not want to send my kid to, then I will leave. Plain and simple. However, I do think that several modifications can be made to the rules that would not necessarily change the kid-friendly nature of BZPower. Certain words should be unblocked, for instance, and the inability to link to (or even reference) certain sites is very frustrating and doesn't really further BZPower's goal of being kid-friendly.-don't touch my pocket protector

**Sumiki** · January 2, 2012

Unless you mean that's too old, then that's a problem. Probably older, but sorry, people probably shouldn't even being seeing any type of material of that kind anyway. Doesn't matter what age group you're in, but it seems...wrong. Maybe people a little older than 20, but it's wrong.
What you may think is wrong is ultimately subjective. As such by age 16 I think everyone is old enough to make their own decision about it. Of course you don't post un-worksafe pictures on worksafe boards, that's just not sporting.

Isn't that opinion subjective as well?A lot of things are subjective, true, but with a forum, you have to take the general consensus - doing what will make the majority pleased, and not a small minority. Right now, the patrons of this topic disagree on a number of things, but loosening the word filter to the degree that you have proposed in the past and have intimated in this topic is something I'm don't think many agree on, and would run off more members of an already-dwindling base.

**Black Six** · January 2, 2012

Okay, first off, this topic started off really well, but the past few posts have really been veering off topic to what certain people consider appropriate content and at what ages people should be allowed to see certain things. That's not the purpose of this topic and guess what - it's getting close to political discussion.Next point - I do not foresee a time when BZPower will allow political or religious discussion. I don't want to moderate it, and I don't want to have to ask our staff to do it. I don't care how many of our members are mature enough to carry on such discussion - all it takes is one to ruin it. And yes, politics and religion are very different from other types of off-topic discussion in that people tend to be very polarized on them, which leads very easily to the arguments and flame wars we try to avoid.Moving on - there have been a lot of suggestions and ideas for what direction BZPower should take. The view of the administration is that our niche that has allowed us to exist and grow in the past is our openness to members of all ages. This will continue to be our main focus.As many have pointed out, Bionicle is dead. BZPower is no longer a Bionicle only site. There are only six forums with 'Bionicle' in their title. All other forums are for LEGO and Bionicle discussion.Let's take a quick look at those six:

[*]Bionicle Sets & Collectibles - We also have the LEGO Sets and Hero Factory Sets forums to discuss non-Bionicle things.[*]Bionicle Storyline & Theories - No other LEGO theme has the kind of story Bionicle had. The Hero Factory and Ninjago TV shorts can be discussed in Media Discussion, and any other story-related things can go in LEGO Discussion.[*]Bionicle Reference Center - This is essentially an offshoot of S&T and hasn't really been repopulated yet due to bones' schedule.[*]Bionicle-Based Creations - We actually debated renaming this 'Constraction-Based Creations' or something like that, but it's been such a pillar of the site we decided against it. Anything constraction-related belongs there though, and all other creations can go in SBC.[*]Bionicle RPG - There is a separate LEGO RPG forum, although I know that has not been spun up yet really. We are working on it.[*]BionicleSector01 - That's the name of the site. If Swert asked me to rename it to BS01/HS01 or something like that, I would.

For all the remaining forums, we don't lump Bionicle in with LEGO in the descriptions because BZP started out as a Bionicle-focused site and that is our way of acknowledging our roots. All the Creative forums (with a couple exceptions noted above) as well as others like Media and Digital Discussion, can have LEGO-related content. It's up to you guys, the members, to make it. Perhaps the staff needs to work more to encourage that, and if you all have any suggestions on how to do so, I'm all ears.So from that perspective we are definitely a site for all LEGO themes, although our focus will continue to be on Bionicle and constraction. I think that's a nice balance and puts us in a place where we don't overlap with other sites out there. Yes, you can talk about all LEGO themes, but you're probably not going to join unless you really like Bionicle or Hero Factory or whatever the next constraction line is.From the visual perspective - yes, the front page needs to be updated to more reflect this. You can put it on the long list of things we need to do.Regarding Completely Off Topic - my position has always been that we are a LEGO (formerly Bionicle) fan site. So sure if I also happen to like other things like Star Wars or My Little Pony or whatever I should be able to talk about them here, but I'm not going to want to post my stories about those things here any more than I'd want to post my Bionicle stories on a Star Trek fan site. It just doesn't make sense to me. The same goes with RPGs and other creative content that people want to have a separate subforum for - we're not going to ban it, but this is a LEGO site so we're not going to make it our top priority.People have also brought up the word filter and advertising rules. We know many of you aren't happy with them and we do plan to change them. I can't tell you when it will finally happen though.As far as losing members goes, the downtime definitely affected us, but honestly I have been surprised by just how many members have come back, and I don't think we're nearly as dead as some are suggesting. And we do have new members registering just about every day, so I don't think of us as losing more members than are joining but rather that we lost a bunch of members and are now getting new ones - we're on an upwards path.I hope BZPower continues to serve a purpose to the overall LEGO community by catering to an audience no other site does. I look forward to fixing some of the things people have issues with and doing our best to add content and more value for everyone.

**Gatanui** · January 2, 2012

Okay, first off, this topic started off really well, but the past few posts have really been veering off topic to what certain people consider appropriate content and at what ages people should be allowed to see certain things. That's not the purpose of this topic and guess what - it's getting close to political discussion.Next point - I do not foresee a time when BZPower will allow political or religious discussion. I don't want to moderate it, and I don't want to have to ask our staff to do it. I don't care how many of our members are mature enough to carry on such discussion - all it takes is one to ruin it. And yes, politics and religion are very different from other types of off-topic discussion in that people tend to be very polarized on them, which leads very easily to the arguments and flame wars we try to avoid.

First of all, I would like to thank you for taking your time to write such a long post. Your opinion, being that of the main admin of the site, is greatly appreciated and I was hoping you would post in the topic at some point. :)I guess when you are trying to lead a good discussion drifting off if only slightly is inevitable. However, I am reading every single post of this topic so you can be sure I won´t allow the topic to drift off too far. As of now, in my opinion it has still been fine, but let´s try to move back to discussing the future of BZPower rather than what is the appropiate age for political discussion.

Just let me reply to your point about politics.I think you can´t just throw all kinds of political discussion in a pot (or however you say it). Sure, there are definitely some topics like asking which party you prefer which would turn into flame wars far too easily, and we don´t need those. However, there are other topics classified as political as well like poverty, globalization and global warming which are political, but less polarized and more open to several standpoints and rational arguments, in contrast to liberal/socialist vs. conservative topics which only cause fights; as a matter of fact, between mature adults in almost every single country of the world. While those definitely wouldn´t work, others like the ones suggested could work.

Moving on - there have been a lot of suggestions and ideas for what direction BZPower should take. The view of the administration is that our niche that has allowed us to exist and grow in the past is our openness to members of all ages. This will continue to be our main focus.As many have pointed out, Bionicle is dead. BZPower is no longer a Bionicle only site. There are only six forums with 'Bionicle' in their title. All other forums are for LEGO and Bionicle discussion.Let's take a quick look at those six:
[*]Bionicle Sets & Collectibles - We also have the LEGO Sets and Hero Factory Sets forums to discuss non-Bionicle things.[*]Bionicle Storyline & Theories - No other LEGO theme has the kind of story Bionicle had. The Hero Factory and Ninjago TV shorts can be discussed in Media Discussion, and any other story-related things can go in LEGO Discussion.[*]Bionicle Reference Center - This is essentially an offshoot of S&T and hasn't really been repopulated yet due to bones' schedule.[*]Bionicle-Based Creations - We actually debated renaming this 'Constraction-Based Creations' or something like that, but it's been such a pillar of the site we decided against it. Anything constraction-related belongs there though, and all other creations can go in SBC.[*]Bionicle RPG - There is a separate LEGO RPG forum, although I know that has not been spun up yet really. We are working on it.[*]BionicleSector01 - That's the name of the site. If Swert asked me to rename it to BS01/HS01 or something like that, I would.
For all the remaining forums, we don't lump Bionicle in with LEGO in the descriptions because BZP started out as a Bionicle-focused site and that is our way of acknowledging our roots. All the Creative forums (with a couple exceptions noted above) as well as others like Media and Digital Discussion, can have LEGO-related content. It's up to you guys, the members, to make it. Perhaps the staff needs to work more to encourage that, and if you all have any suggestions on how to do so, I'm all ears.So from that perspective we are definitely a site for all LEGO themes, although our focus will continue to be on Bionicle and constraction. I think that's a nice balance and puts us in a place where we don't overlap with other sites out there. Yes, you can talk about all LEGO themes, but you're probably not going to join unless you really like Bionicle or Hero Factory or whatever the next constraction line is.From the visual perspective - yes, the front page needs to be updated to more reflect this. You can put it on the long list of things we need to do.

I definitely agree BZPower should stay true to its origin of a BIONICLE site, a direction we would keep as a general constraction site. Still, opening more to all LEGO themes wouldn´t hurt. My main concern is the front page which is still that of a site purely dedicated to BIONICLE, and as I said, that can turn people off. I don´t want BIONICLE to be neglected entirely and I don´t want the S&T forum or the BIONICLE-themed rank images, spinnies etc. to be removed, but BIONICLE shouldn´t be the main focus anymore, which should instead be all of constraction.

Regarding Completely Off Topic - my position has always been that we are a LEGO (formerly Bionicle) fan site. So sure if I also happen to like other things like Star Wars or My Little Pony or whatever I should be able to talk about them here, but I'm not going to want to post my stories about those things here any more than I'd want to post my Bionicle stories on a Star Trek fan site. It just doesn't make sense to me. The same goes with RPGs and other creative content that people want to have a separate subforum for - we're not going to ban it, but this is a LEGO site so we're not going to make it our top priority.People have also brought up the word filter and advertising rules. We know many of you aren't happy with them and we do plan to change them. I can't tell you when it will finally happen though.

Here the argument about the community becomes important. BZPower is also a community, so people don´t simply want to talk about a certain topic, but also with certain people. Still, I understand your point, and of course off-topic discussion should not become our top priority.

As far as losing members goes, the downtime definitely affected us, but honestly I have been surprised by just how many members have come back, and I don't think we're nearly as dead as some are suggesting. And we do have new members registering just about every day, so I don't think of us as losing more members than are joining but rather that we lost a bunch of members and are now getting new ones - we're on an upwards path.

Sure, new members are joining in. As a matter of fact, we have hit the 47k mark yesterday, which is good news. But the question is: For how long? Right now, BIONICLE is still somewhat known, and quite a few new members I have seen joining are from the LEGO Message Boards where BIONICLE is still vividly being discussed. Soon however, BIONICLE will be more unknown to kids, and fewer people will join. That is why we should open up to attract even more people and make sure the tap doesn´t close all of a sudden.Now that I think about it, setting up the server to record the number of visitors a day/week/month/year wouldn´t be too bad.

I hope BZPower continues to serve a purpose to the overall LEGO community by catering to an audience no other site does. I look forward to fixing some of the things people have issues with and doing our best to add content and more value for everyone.

Good to hear that, and I definitely hope this topic could help you in getting a better view at what the community desires.

~Gata.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Gatanui

Peach 00 · January 2, 2012

Sorry if I drifted off topic, I probably started that mess. Still, to actually get back on topic:I'd love to see the front page just tweaked a little bit, not to a full renovation of it. Just to get the spotlight working again and the like, just simple things like that. Keeping everything BIONICLE will help the forums, even if it is dead. Opening the forums to a little more LEGO and Hero Factory might help, but as Hero Factory is BIONICLE's successor, LEGO probably should have a wider amount of forum space than Hero Factory, as if it goes farther towards HF, it might not be as much about BIONICLE. I believe that we have enough to discuss about HF, and plenty to discuss about BIONICLE and LEGO.Nonetheless, the decrease of members is partly to blame on the downtime, that did have an effect, no doubt. But anyway, sorry for going off topic, I didn't mean to do that. I strongly suggest some political discussion, but I don't want to argue, as B6 already settled that. Still, the front page being changed a little would be great. But the direction of BZP? It will probably die in about another three years, depending on how much the popularity of HF increases on here. BIONICLE is now a 12-year-old toy-line, and has been dead for 2 years now. Soon enough it will be forgotten, even though it will still hold a special place in our hearts. The site might generate more flow of traffic from LEGO fans if we point towards making it a general LEGO forum, which I don't personally agree on doing, but it will probably happen and still have a section about BIONICLE, no doubt. Either way, BIONICLE will still be around, but just not as large as it will be for future generations.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Peach 00

fishers64 · January 2, 2012

Good to see you here, Black Six, and that you took the time to post something this long.

For all the remaining forums, we don't lump Bionicle in with LEGO in the descriptions because BZP started out as a Bionicle-focused site and that is our way of acknowledging our roots. All the Creative forums (with a couple exceptions noted above) as well as others like Media and Digital Discussion, can have LEGO-related content. It's up to you guys, the members, to make it. Perhaps the staff needs to work more to encourage that, and if you all have any suggestions on how to do so, I'm all ears.

While Media and Digital Disscussion lend themselves to Lego Discussion okay (I've seen topics in there on some Ninjago and Hero Factory stuff, in addition to the latest initiatives), I don't think the Library does as well, because writing fanfics is an expansion of what is already there in terms of story. It's like pulling tools out of a box. I have an enviroment that's part of Bionicle (for example) or a character that's a part of Bionicle, and I am going to write a new story with it. Maybe I will place a character that I like in Bionicle in some new situation or invent my own character to endure some challenges in a Bionicle environment. If I'm moving a character that's already there, I know it well, because in Bionicle there was usually a good deal of development behind that person. I know how that character will react in position Z.But right now, Lego's other themes are shallower. There's less character development, so I cannot identify with the character I've taken out of the the franchise to write with. There is simply less possible situations, whereas Bionicle has nearly indefinite ones. There isn't as much room for a new take. So it is easier to write Bionicle fan fiction, so that's what you get. In general, it is easier to write fan fiction on huge franchises with a lot of story like Star Wars and Star Trek and LoTR anyway - I mean, you see more of that stuff. It's generally true that the more story detail you get from the main story, the more fan fics you get.It doesn't help that most of us are Bionicle fans, either, and we have a primary interest in Bionicle and constraction. It also doesn't help that this one of the few places on the Internet to post Bionicle fanfics, whereas you can post Lego fanfics in more other places. That aside, the fact that you can post Lego stuff in the Library isn't widely publicized. I didn't know that until I read your post. If you want more strictly Lego fanfics, then the best thing you can do is post in a prominent location "You can post your Lego fanfics here!" But I don't think you'll get too many takers.And I really don't see it as a problem. After all, Bionicle fanfics are never-ending commodity to keep Bionicle alive, and if standard Lego fanfics are hard to write, I can't imagine people exactly wanting to read them. But that's my view.Also, the fact that you can post HF stuff in the "BBC" isn't widely publicized either. Someone needs to put that in the rule topic for that forum that you can, because I was deterred from posting my HF MOCs there by its lack of mention.

So from that perspective we are definitely a site for all LEGO themes, although our focus will continue to be on Bionicle and constraction. I think that's a nice balance and puts us in a place where we don't overlap with other sites out there. Yes, you can talk about all LEGO themes, but you're probably not going to join unless you really like Bionicle or Hero Factory or whatever the next constraction line is.From the visual perspective - yes, the front page needs to be updated to more reflect this. You can put it on the long list of things we need to do.

BZP does have a niche audience. The type in bold explains a lot of what I said above.And, I know I'm ranting, but the front page just needs be flat cleaned up, since it is covered with outdated links and doesn't reflect our current audience. It just needs to be improved and...GET SOME FEATURE BLOCKS THAT FEATURE MEMBERS' CREATIVE WORK ON THE FRONT PAGE!I hear this in this topic, over and over again...it would seriously contribute to the site's survival. Not to mention Bionicle's survival.

As far as losing members goes, the downtime definitely affected us, but honestly I have been surprised by just how many members have come back, and I don't think we're nearly as dead as some are suggesting. And we do have new members registering just about every day, so I don't think of us as losing more members than are joining but rather that we lost a bunch of members and are now getting new ones - we're on an upwards path.I hope BZPower continues to serve a purpose to the overall LEGO community by catering to an audience no other site does. I look forward to fixing some of the things people have issues with and doing our best to add content and more value for everyone.

The bold type kind of reflects what I thought when I first saw this topic. Much to Lego's chagrin, we are not dead yet.:PAgain, thanks for the post B6, and it is very good to see that the staff is willing to work with us and make positive change. Other sites I've seen have done worse.

Waffles · January 2, 2012

Okay, first off, this topic started off really well, but the past few posts have really been veering off topic to what certain people consider appropriate content and at what ages people should be allowed to see certain things. That's not the purpose of this topic and guess what - it's getting close to political discussion.Next point - I do not foresee a time when BZPower will allow political or religious discussion. I don't want to moderate it, and I don't want to have to ask our staff to do it. I don't care how many of our members are mature enough to carry on such discussion - all it takes is one to ruin it. And yes, politics and religion are very different from other types of off-topic discussion in that people tend to be very polarized on them, which leads very easily to the arguments and flame wars we try to avoid.
First of all, I would like to thank you for taking your time to write such a long post. Your opinion, being that of the main admin of the site, is greatly appreciated and I was hoping you would post in the topic at some point. :)I guess when you are trying to lead a good discussion drifting off if only slightly is inevitable. However, I am reading every single post of this topic so you can be sure I won´t allow the topic to drift off too far. As of now, in my opinion it has still been fine, but let´s try to move back to discussing the future of BZPower rather than what is the appropiate age for political discussion. Just let me reply to your point about politics.I think you can´t just throw all kinds of political discussion in a pot (or however you say it). Sure, there are definitely some topics like asking which party you prefer which would turn into flame wars far too easily, and we don´t need those. However, there are other topics classified as political as well like poverty, globalization and global warming which are political, but less polarized and more open to several standpoints and rational arguments, in contrast to liberal/socialist vs. conservative topics which only cause fights; as a matter of fact, between mature adults in almost every single country of the world. While those definitely wouldn´t work, others like the ones suggested could work.

Yes, but even those less polarized political topics are quite attached to the liberal/conservative schism. The political aspects of global warming especially. The scientific aspects however, are much easier ground. Something that would be very interesting to have would be a forum (not forum as in CoT or GD, but as in a space for talk) for scientific debate.

**Sumiki** · January 2, 2012

While I think that a political topic could work, it would have to be very closely monitored. It'd be too much trouble for the staff to try and keep everything under a boil, and thus it wouldn't be feasible to create and run. Being a topic on BZPower's future, and Black Six having nixed the concept of such a topic once and for all, I think it's time we move off of that subject and on to something a little more on-topic.While I agree with Black Six saying that we're still gaining members, I disagree with the logic that new membership leads to more posts and more activity. We have over 47,000 members, and only a very small fraction are active. It's been that way as long as just about anyone can recall, and there's no reason to believe that members who join now will have any more impetus to post than the thousands who joined and have been inactive since - especially seeing as BIONICLE is all but dead, which has been mentioned ad lib, ad nauseam, and ad infinitum. That's the only part of his post I find myself disagreeing with, and I may have read it the wrong way at that.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Sumiki

Discussion: The Future Of Bzpower

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