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Hero Factory Discussion

Hero Factory

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#281 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 12:49 PM

Just watched it in English. What´s up with Speeda Demon? :blink: That´s just insane. Black Phantom doesn´t feel right either. Does he have a Russian or French accent? The voice actor for Black Phantom is much better and fitting in the German version and I also prefer the voice actors for Speeda Demon and Zib in the German dubbing. Jawblade is very good in English, though.-Gata Posted Image

Edited by Gatanui, Apr 10 2012 - 04:15 PM.

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#282 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 01:52 PM

I just watched the episode in full. It was pretty good. Some things like the pacing still had shades of the mediocrity of many previous episodes, but in general I liked the voice talent, the villains felt motivated and intimidating, and every hero got a moment in the spotlight (unlike the 2010 episodes where characters like Breez, Surge, Bulk, and Stringer felt pretty superfluous).The animation and character designs were excellent. I loved how the printed details of the Breakout chest pieces were given depth. That one moment where Black Phantom was sitting with his legs crossed was well-animated. And the battle between Splitface and Surge was awesome even if some of the physics were probably bogus.
Spoiler
Overall I feel optimistic for any future episodes we might be expecting. This episode seems to try and create a stronger continuity than previous ones, and as with the sets in the Breakout series it felt there was some great variety in the fight scenes and characterization for the different heroes and villains. Hopefully TLG won't let us down and will give us a follow-up episode at some point in the second half of the year, especially so great characters like Breez, Nex, and Bulk can return to the spotlight.

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#283 Offline Toa Zaz

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 02:11 PM

Evo looks really weird with his headgear retracted...
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#284 Offline Elrond of Rivendell

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 03:03 PM

Watch out, Gaita. That's no german talking. That's Mark Hamill, in a somewhat joker voice, being a super villan. compare it to some of "Luke's" other works and you'll see the similarities. But seriously, you're right. The voice didn't fit the character.-Bane
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#285 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 04:13 PM

Evo looks really weird with his headgear retracted...

I agree. He looks awesome with it extended, though. :P

Watch out, Gaita. That's no german talking. That's Mark Hamill, in a somewhat joker voice, being a super villan. compare it to some of "Luke's" other works and you'll see the similarities. But seriously, you're right. The voice didn't fit the character.-Bane

I know it´s Mark Hamill. Didn´t he voice Von Nebula, too? Anyway, what I meant was that the voice actor for the German version of the episode was more fitting than Mark Hamill, not that the voice actor for Black Phantom was some German guy. The accent isn´t even German. :P I guess I should have worded it better.-Gata Posted Image

Edited by Gatanui, Apr 10 2012 - 04:14 PM.

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#286 Offline Elrond of Rivendell

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 04:46 PM

Evo looks really weird with his headgear retracted...

I agree. He looks awesome with it extended, though. :P

Watch out, Gaita. That's no german talking. That's Mark Hamill, in a somewhat joker voice, being a super villan. compare it to some of "Luke's" other works and you'll see the similarities. But seriously, you're right. The voice didn't fit the character.-Bane

I know it´s Mark Hamill. Didn´t he voice Von Nebula, too? Anyway, what I meant was that the voice actor for the German version of the episode was more fitting than Mark Hamill, not that the voice actor for Black Phantom was some German guy. The accent isn´t even German. :P I guess I should have worded it better.-Gata Posted Image

No, looking back, you got the wording right, I must have just missed it. Mark Hamill did play VN. I also agree that his voice didn't really fit the bill. Sounded a little too insane for someone who seemed intelligent.

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#287 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 04:52 PM

Evo looks really weird with his headgear retracted...

I agree. He looks awesome with it extended, though. :P

Watch out, Gaita. That's no german talking. That's Mark Hamill, in a somewhat joker voice, being a super villan. compare it to some of "Luke's" other works and you'll see the similarities. But seriously, you're right. The voice didn't fit the character.-Bane

I know it´s Mark Hamill. Didn´t he voice Von Nebula, too? Anyway, what I meant was that the voice actor for the German version of the episode was more fitting than Mark Hamill, not that the voice actor for Black Phantom was some German guy. The accent isn´t even German. :P I guess I should have worded it better.-Gata Posted Image

No, looking back, you got the wording right, I must have just missed it. Mark Hamill did play VN. I also agree that his voice didn't really fit the bill. Sounded a little too insane for someone who seemed intelligent.

The wording may be right now because I changed it after the misunderstanding. :PYeah, the German voice is better, it fit Black Phantom´s sneaky character. I don´t like how they feel they need to give everyone a different accent to make them unique. :/-Gata Posted Image

Edited by Gatanui, Apr 10 2012 - 04:53 PM.

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#288 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 10 2012 - 05:57 PM

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#289 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 07:10 AM

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-Gata Posted Image

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#290 Offline Elrond of Rivendell

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 07:33 AM

Sooo... I've seen some of the movie/screening,

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-Bane

I already said something about that earlier.
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#291 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 07:39 AM

Sooo... I've seen some of the movie/screening,

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-Bane

I already said something about that earlier.
Spoiler

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-Gata Posted Image

Edited by Gatanui, Apr 11 2012 - 07:40 AM.

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#292 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 07:57 AM

Spoiler

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-Gata Posted Image

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#293 Offline Elrond of Rivendell

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 09:21 AM

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Anyway, I wonder if breakout will continue to the next year, or if it will turn into VN's attack on the factory, or finally, if it becomes the hunt for Non Nebula.-Bane

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#294 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 09:52 AM

Anyway, I wonder if breakout will continue to the next year, or if it will turn into VN's attack on the factory, or finally, if it becomes the hunt for Non Nebula.-Bane

I doubt Breakout will continue next year and hope it doesn´t, that would be too repetitive. I´m sure we´ll see Von Nebula and his Villain Factory eventually, but it may not be next year yet.-Gata Posted Image

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#295 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 10:37 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing a Von Nebula set next year. I dunno, I guess I have a thing for returning villains. Maybe next year they might even find a discernible motive for Von Karma Nebula.

Edited by The Wretched Automaton, Apr 11 2012 - 10:38 AM.

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#296 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 11:29 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing a Von Nebula set next year. I dunno, I guess I have a thing for returning villains. Maybe next year they might even find a discernible motive for Von Karma Nebula.

I doubt it as Von Nebula´s motives should have remained unchanged. What I do hope is that they manage to explain them sufficiently, though, they utterly failed on their first attempt.-Gata Posted Image

Edited by Gatanui, Apr 11 2012 - 11:30 AM.

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#297 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 11:39 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing a Von Nebula set next year. I dunno, I guess I have a thing for returning villains. Maybe next year they might even find a discernible motive for Von Karma Nebula.

I doubt it as Von Nebula´s motives should have remained unchanged. What I do hope is that they manage to explain them sufficiently, though, they utterly failed on their first attempt.-Gata Posted Image

And how. Or they could at least explain just how he went from regular sized hero to titanic black hole master. There has to be a story there somewhere. You can't exactly ignore that kind of transformation.

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#298 Offline Dorek

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 11:39 AM

I think I'm really the only one who didn't have a problem with VN's motivations =P. Obviously if you go by the TV show alone then yes, it's not super clear, but even then, it's not too hard (especially for the level of attention this show is for) for people to digest. If kids can make sense of the plothole-ish Breakout, then they should be able to understand Von Nebula. The size change, I will grant, is what needs to be known.Regardless, I too would like a VN set redux; they can easily use the same face mold and everything, so it can't be too hard to create a recognizable but still uniquely new set.(also it explains at the end why they can't trace the blueprints file, if I remember correctly =P)

Edited by Dorek, Apr 11 2012 - 11:39 AM.

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#299 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 11:45 AM

Ironically, the size change is what I find perfectly plausible. After all, they are robots, so it shouldn´t be hard for them to rebuild themselves or to replace some body parts with others.-Gata Posted Image
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#300 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 11:55 AM

The motives are a little simplistic, but I'd describe them as TOO simplistic. There's just no sense as to why he blames Stormer for taking all the glory, when Stormer was actually the one who did all the work. Nessie just flew off, so what did he expect? Praise? I can't think of a reason why he feels the need to want to take revenge on Hero Factory when even the simplest look over events can explain that it was all Nebula's fault.Of course, that's not to say there aren't worse plot holes. As has been asked a gorillian times, just what was Von Nebula doing inside Voltix's electricity?That makes sense, but there's still a few other details like the black hole staff that I'd like to know about and just HOW he managed to upgrade himself. Did he get somebody else to do it or something?
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#301 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 12:08 PM

Obviously, Von Nebula knows many villains throughout the galaxy, so it´s likely he would find someone to upgrade him. Or maybe he did it himself, think of the Toa Mata who built themselves on the shore. :P-Gata Posted Image
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#302 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 12:10 PM

Hm, yeah that fits. I'm thinking it over, but that explains why his head's still the exact same. He just modified his body around it. Well, at least that clarified that. And I guess he might have stolen that black hole staff from somewhere? Then added rotating spikes to it, just so it looks a little more intimidating.
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#303 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 12:12 PM

Now that I think about it, shouldn´t Von Nebula still have his Hero Core? I thought about that ever since we knew of his past as a Hero and hoped they would use that in the story.-Gata Posted Image
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#304 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 12:18 PM

Maybe he covered that up in disgust with himself?Of course, now I'm just stepping into fanon territory. But if we're going to justify Nebula's actions, there's got to be a little bit of self-loathing in there.
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#305 Offline Dorek

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 12:52 PM

The Core was the one thing I had trouble digesting. Heroes can't survive without it, and it makes them who they are, so how exactly did Von Nebula's go wrong (and seriously, how is he the ONLY Hero to have gone rouge).But yeah, it's not particularly difficult to understand that VN's anger issues stem from transference and healthy amount of self-hatred. The promo mag implies that he thought that Thresher had actually been killed during the mission (unfortunately, the phrasing is ambiguous, and that fact is contradicted in the TV show for obvious reasons), which definitely explains what he feels guilty for and how he blames Stormer for it.
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#306 Offline Toa Zaz

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 02:19 PM

The Core was the one thing I had trouble digesting. Heroes can't survive without it, and it makes them who they are, so how exactly did Von Nebula's go wrong (and seriously, how is he the ONLY Hero to have gone rouge).But yeah, it's not particularly difficult to understand that VN's anger issues stem from transference and healthy amount of self-hatred. The promo mag implies that he thought that Thresher had actually been killed during the mission (unfortunately, the phrasing is ambiguous, and that fact is contradicted in the TV show for obvious reasons), which definitely explains what he feels guilty for and how he blames Stormer for it.

But the reason Thresher "died" was because VON NEBULA RAN AWAY FOR NO REASON!!!!! This makes no sense at all.

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#307 Offline The Dandy Automaton

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Posted Apr 11 2012 - 02:35 PM

Actually, I think Thresher had already been hit by the random giant robot. Of course, that still doesn't explain just why Nebula feels the need to take his anger out on Stormer, nor the rest of the Hero Factory. If anything, he should have spent his time hunting down the creator of the robot, if he really wants to "avenge" Thresher....Actually, that's a really good idea for a fanfic...Lemme just jot that down somewhere...
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#308 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Apr 12 2012 - 09:45 AM

Something I had considered is that after being disgraced by fleeing the mission and abandoning Stormer and Thresher, Von Nebula couldn't exactly get a proper core recharge. Certainly, Breakout shows that regular electricity can be enough to recharge a Hero Core, but perhaps Von Nebula decided that having a Hero Core was no longer worth the trouble. Or perhaps it just served as a nagging reminder of the life he had left behind.There's definitely a story to be told about what happened between Von Ness deserting the mission and transforming into the villain Von Nebula, but it's not a story I expect TLG to ever tell. The ideal time to tell it, after all, would have been during the first year of story when his motivations really needed explaining. At this point, however, it's already been established that he's a powerful villain with a grudge against Preston Stormer and the Hero Factory-- if you can accept that, then the "why" is no longer essential. There's not even any reason his former status as a rookie Hero has to be mentioned again, although I wouldn't be surprised if it is.I'd love to write fan fiction about Von Ness's descent into villainy, but I'm a rather feeble writer and don't have nearly enough ideas to get myself started properly. Certainly it's not hard to explain the sorts of things he would have been forced to suffer that he could blame Stormer for, but the hard part is making it meaningful and entertaining rather than just a tedious string of events like how so many of my BIONICLE stories ended up.As far as the Breakout episode was concerned, I actually liked all of the voices, and the one-liners were definitely way better than some of the ones in Savage Planet. While the series as a whole still has somewhat mediocre pacing and hardly any heart-wrenching moments like you see in some of the other cartoons I prefer, there wasn't any part of the Breakout episode that were painful to watch. And I think its "solo mission" storytelling format helped it out greatly-- every hero and every villain got a moment in the spotlight, and each character felt unique in some sense.It's hard to say the Hero Factory story is consistently improving, what with Savage Planet being such a disappointment for me when I first watched it. But it's definitely becoming more complex, with characterization carrying over between episodes (although Evo's shift in characterization from a patient, precise marksman to an impulsive rookie hero was more than a bit frustrating), conclusions that leave some loose ends to be wrapped up in future episodes, and villains with unique motivations. While I don't want the story to get as complex as BIONICLE's by any means, I do hope that these changes are signs that the writers are indeed working to improve on the story's previous shortcomings.
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#309 Offline Dorek

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Posted Apr 12 2012 - 02:56 PM

I actually sketched out some ideas for a decent fanfic. But I was watching Fringe and it sort of incorporated some multiverse ideas and got kinda convoluted, and lost steam when Savage Planet rolled around and I didn't incorporate it well enough.

The Core was the one thing I had trouble digesting. Heroes can't survive without it, and it makes them who they are, so how exactly did Von Nebula's go wrong (and seriously, how is he the ONLY Hero to have gone rouge).But yeah, it's not particularly difficult to understand that VN's anger issues stem from transference and healthy amount of self-hatred. The promo mag implies that he thought that Thresher had actually been killed during the mission (unfortunately, the phrasing is ambiguous, and that fact is contradicted in the TV show for obvious reasons), which definitely explains what he feels guilty for and how he blames Stormer for it.

But the reason Thresher "died" was because VON NEBULA RAN AWAY FOR NO REASON!!!!! This makes no sense at all.

Why would you expect VN to accept blame for what he did? If he did, he wouldn't be a supervillain in the first place. He didn't live up to the standards of a Hero, and fled because he was afraid; that guilt and feeling of inadequacy easily transferred into his anger, and when Stormer is commended for his actions, that's a slap in the face to Ness.

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#310 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Apr 12 2012 - 04:35 PM

The Core was the one thing I had trouble digesting. Heroes can't survive without it, and it makes them who they are, so how exactly did Von Nebula's go wrong (and seriously, how is he the ONLY Hero to have gone rouge).But yeah, it's not particularly difficult to understand that VN's anger issues stem from transference and healthy amount of self-hatred. The promo mag implies that he thought that Thresher had actually been killed during the mission (unfortunately, the phrasing is ambiguous, and that fact is contradicted in the TV show for obvious reasons), which definitely explains what he feels guilty for and how he blames Stormer for it.

But the reason Thresher "died" was because VON NEBULA RAN AWAY FOR NO REASON!!!!! This makes no sense at all.

He didn't run away for no reason, he ran away because he was terrified and he figured it was better to save his own skin than to stick up for his team. Presumably, he figured that if Stormer and Thresher died, then it would just be recognized as a disaster that couldn't be prevented (remember that they did not know about the drone at all before reaching New Stellac, so none of them were prepared to fight it), and he wouldn't have anything to worry about but the guilt of abandoning his teammates.However, since Stormer managed to defeat the drone, he was recognized as a hero, and Von Ness, for attempting to flee against Stormer's orders, was exposed as a coward and perhaps even a traitor. If he was so ashamed of the whole ordeal that he didn't have the courage to return to the Hero Factory, that's plenty of reason for him to feel wronged-- and as Dorek says, it's only natural that he would transfer the blame to Stormer, since if it weren't for Stormer's heroism (or as Von Ness would prefer to think of it, grandstanding and glory-hogging), he might have been seen as an unprepared rookie making an unfortunate but necessary judgment call, rather than a coward who would gladly desert his entire team rather than face danger himself.Were Von Ness's fears founded? Who knows? It's entirely possible that Stormer and the rest of the Hero Factory would have forgiven him since in the end his decision fortunately didn't create any casualties. The important thing, though, is that he was as as afraid to face up for his own actions as he was to face the drone on New Stellac City.If I do write a fanfic about Von Ness's transformation into Von Nebula, I hope to make use of it. After all, if you were motivated almost entirely by the shame of your own cowardice, wouldn't it make you feel better to have a powerful, imposing body as a means of security? Isn't it easier to blame those around you, particularly those whom you envy, than to take the blame for decisions you don't feel you could have made differently? Wouldn't a life outside the law seem appealing if the one thing you wanted most was to no longer be held accountable for your actions?Part of the thing stopping me from writing such a fanfic is that I have a hard time verbalizing that internal dialogue from Von Nebula's perspective. It's extremely difficult to put guilt and other thoughts through a character's head when they're deliberately trying to hide those thoughts from themselves. And that coupled with the fact that I can scarcely move an externally-driven plot along convincingly makes me feel ill-equipped for the task.

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#311 Offline Lenny7092

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Posted Apr 13 2012 - 09:16 PM

I am wondering how and why did Von Ness hate Hero Factory and transform into the evil Von Nebula specifically. Hmm...
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#312 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 15 2012 - 09:32 AM

I am wondering how and why did Von Ness hate Hero Factory and transform into the evil Von Nebula specifically. Hmm...

Well, there are some explanations above which are pretty plausible. I suppose the way Aanchir and Dorek have tried to explain it makes sense and could be right, it´s just that it was badly presented in the TV series.-Gata Posted Image

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#313 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Apr 16 2012 - 03:41 PM

Breaking off from Von Nebula for a moment to voice my thoughts:"We're wasting time fighting each other. / Yeah! It'd be much more fun to make scrap metal out of Surge!"Who else agrees with Splitface?
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#314 Offline Meiko

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Posted Apr 16 2012 - 04:35 PM

Breaking off from Von Nebula for a moment to voice my thoughts:"We're wasting time fighting each other. / Yeah! It'd be much more fun to make scrap metal out of Surge!"Who else agrees with Splitface?

But I like Surge. :( Surge is my... bro. He is a bro now... I honestly can't picture Surge playing lacrosse or anything. He can stick to robo-ball. :P

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#315 Offline Solomon Kane

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Posted Apr 16 2012 - 07:43 PM

Breaking off from Von Nebula for a moment to voice my thoughts:"We're wasting time fighting each other. / Yeah! It'd be much more fun to make scrap metal out of Surge!"Who else agrees with Splitface?

YESHe was one of the better Heroes and then the show ruined his personality It was awful

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#316 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 16 2012 - 09:38 PM

Surge has some redeeming qualities - he was the guy who professionally rammed the Fire Lord and sacrificed himself for his team...And then bragged about it. Never mind; I agree - Mr. Kiddie Annoying...nah, doesn't need to be scrapped, just grow up a little. Why I am I talking like Splitface?:)
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#317 Offline Aanchir

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Posted Apr 17 2012 - 07:01 AM

I think Surge is a pretty OK hero. Even though the character trait mentioned in many of his 2010 bios-- the worry that he might have been built with a flaw-- never really got touched on in the TV series, I think he has a pretty likable personality, and I hope we see some more character development for him in the future. His role in Ordeal of Fire was definitely well-written, as far as I'm concerned.
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#318 Online Gatanui

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Posted Apr 17 2012 - 07:20 AM

Hey, it´s not his fault if he sounds squeaky! http://www.bzpower.c...tyle_emoticons/default/mad.gifSeriously, I´m not that annoyed by Surge, just his voice can become a bit too high-pitched at times, but his light-hearted character is a nice contrast from the sober rest of the Heroes.-Gata Posted Image

Edited by Gatanui, Apr 17 2012 - 02:14 PM.

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#319 Offline Yaldabaoth

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Posted Apr 17 2012 - 02:12 PM

There's a good way and a bad way to do everything, including "a lighthearted character to contrast with his more serious teammates." The good way is Lewa or Matau. The bad way is Surge and SpongeBob. Admittedly, Surge has done some pretty awesome things, such as taking out the Fire Lord in one of the most graphic moments of LEGO and even carving apart an asteroid with electricity. But his consistent squealing while doing it ruins the moment for me. If only they'd used the tortured, insecure personality he supposedly has rather than an overconfident weakling, perhaps I'd like Surge more than any other hero.That leads me to my main problem with HF, actually -- there seems to be a failure to communicate between the webmasters and promo writers and the TV show writers. Both tell interesting stories, and they often clash, overlap, or deny each others' existence. Most egregious is Mak's update on the Recon Team villain files on Von Nebula's gang -- when, according to the TV show, no one knew of Von Nebula until New Stellac City came around!XD I'm not trying to be argumentative here, though, and everyone's entitled to their own opinions. The above is mine and doesn't have to be forced on anyone.About Von Nebula, then... He needs more characterization to be a believable and emotionally powerful villain, but I doubt he'll get it.

Edited by Lord Ghirahim, Apr 17 2012 - 02:19 PM.

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#320 Offline Toa Zaz

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Posted Apr 17 2012 - 02:15 PM

I wouldn't call Rocka or Breez sober....
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