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Project Proposal: Comic Remakes


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So... I've been reading the old Bionicle comics recently (currently on the Mata Nui saga). Never got to read most of these back in the day... and I can't exactly say I'm impressed with the quality.

Writing-wise.. The dialogue is clunky half the time, the dialogue and narration are painfully edgy in places (an aspect of Farshtey's writing that went completely out of control circa 2005), Lewa seems a bit out of character and doesn't speak in treespeak like he should, and Farshtey switches between using bold text for vocal emphasis, and using bold text for narrative emphasis (the way video games use different-color text), on a whim - sometimes within the same set of speech bubbles! That's bad form, and something the editor should have busted his on.

The art has numerous errors - characters being drawn misassembled, iffy proportions in places, weapon arms randomly changing which side of the body they're on, the Lehvak Va being drawn as holding Tahu's mask when they should be holding Lewa's mask... Ugh.

Now, I've seen some of the amazing creative efforts put forth by the community. I don't just think you can do a better job, I know you can. The question is, does such an effort interest anyone? Is there an interest in overhauling the comics to be more competent?

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Lewa seems a bit out of character and doesn't speak in treespeak like he should

There wasn't a 'should' about this when the comics were written. He didn't speak in Treespeak until MOL in the third year. Who decided on this change, why they did and how that fits with the non-Treespeak before then I don't exactly know.

 

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1 hour ago, Sir Kohran said:

 

 

There wasn't a 'should' about this when the comics were written. He didn't speak in Treespeak until MOL in the third year. Who decided on this change, why they did and how that fits with the non-Treespeak before then I don't exactly know.

 

Actually, he also spoke it in the Bionicle Chronicles books and I believe in the MNOG, where it originated (although I haven't gotten far enough in that to see for myself. Also, no idea as to whether he uses it in TLOMN). But beyond not speaking in Treespeak, he also seems to lack his canon chidlike carefree personality.

Just finished comic 9. More pain: Tahnok-Kal using Pahrok-Kal's Plasma power and Kohrok-Kal using Nuhvok-Kal's Gravity power. Or at least, that's how it looks since Nuhvok-Kal is nowhere to be seen.

Oh, and among the recurring art errors: Matoro is miscolored.

Edited by ZeldaTheSwordsman
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Actually, he also spoke it in the Bionicle Chronicles books

Although they cover the 2001-2 story, they were published at around the time of MOL.

 and I believe in the MNOG, where it originated (although I haven't gotten far enough in that to see for myself.

Definitely not in MNOLG: "Wait, Tahu! Have you given no thought to our return?" "The Rahi are fearsome. May their hearts prove greater than their size would suggest!"

Treespeak in MNOLG is spoken only by Le-Matoran.

Also, no idea as to whether he uses it in TLOMN

I doubt it, as that was made in 2001 and, like I said, he didn't speak it until 2003.

Oh, and among the recurring art errors: Matoro is miscolored.

There was a topic some years back that listed the comic problems and this was something I mentioned.

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I know they were published around that time. But I brought them up to nitpick your original wording - they cover pre-MoL and have Lewa speaking that way.

As for TLOMN, while other sources may not have had Lewa use Treespeak until 2003... I think it's a possibility. After all, Farshtey (who hates Treespeak/Chutespeak; notice that Kongu doesn't speak it in Challenge of the Rahi) was less involved with that game and its dialogue.

Honestly it's stuff like the art and composition flaws that really pushed me to bring this up. Art fails, bad panel layouts, poorly-placed and even misplaced speech bubbles, the constant fluctuation between which kind of emphasis bold text is used for...

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Yeah, I've noticed all the miscolourings too, like I get it that they were on a schedule and these toys are way too greebly, but since we can make it better now that there's no schedule, I see no reason not to try!

I'd definitely love to help, if there was anything I could do...

I'm Vrokdann in Skyrise: Ascent, and Luntep in the BZPRPG.

[sigfig in tunnel]

My profile pic's a cool little thing I made called Bettani. That thing up there's just a me inside a tunnel.

 

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I know they were published around that time. But I brought them up to nitpick your original wording - they cover pre-MoL and have Lewa speaking that way.

Does my wording need to be 'nitpicked'?

The basic point here is that Lewa not speaking in Treespeak in the early comics wasn't a mistake because there was no rule at the time that he should. All media with him speaking in Treespeak dates from mid-2003 onwards, whatever Bionicle period it covers.

As for TLOMN, while other sources may not have had Lewa use Treespeak until 2003... I think it's a possibility. After all, Farshtey (who hates Treespeak/Chutespeak; notice that Kongu doesn't speak it in Challenge of the Rahi) was less involved with that game and its dialogue.

Farshtey wasn't involved in MNOLG at all and Lewa didn't speak Treespeak there either, plus TLOMN doesn't look like it had much dialogue (there isn't any in the three cutscenes) so who knows if Lewa speaks in it at all?

In any case, the game was never actually released so it doesn't carry much weight.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Honestly I don't enjoy the treespeak concept at all. It's a cute idea but it's way too goofy. It's hard for me to take the comics seriously now that I'm older because they're written at a third grade reading level (Obviously because it's meant for kids). That would be interesting to try and reconstruct the comics to employ less tropes and cliche dialogue. The art is phenomenal aside from those few honest mistakes. I think this would be more of a writing project than an illustrative one. That's my thoughts at the moment.

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This feels like the makings of a really cool project! I agree, the errors were unfortunate. I remember as a kid checking the comics out of my library over and over because I loved them so much, but I also had to reread them sometimes because of the speech bubble errors. Why just the other day I was skimming through the first few pages of a comic just to check out a particular detail and just with that alone I noticed at least two misplaced bubbles. 

 

26 minutes ago, TheRadVladd said:

That would be interesting to try and reconstruct the comics to employ less tropes and cliche dialogue.

This would be cool. I feel like they were starting to lean this way a bit by the end in 2009 (thinking of All Our Sins Remembered) and it would be cool to see more like that. I also feel like it would be pretty sick to do comics of books/events that weren't recorded in that medium before (i.e. Time Trap, Destiny War, etc). 

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2 hours ago, TheRadVladd said:

Honestly I don't enjoy the treespeak concept at all. It's a cute idea but it's way too goofy. It's hard for me to take the comics seriously now that I'm older because they're written at a third grade reading level (Obviously because it's meant for kids). That would be interesting to try and reconstruct the comics to employ less tropes and cliche dialogue. The art is phenomenal aside from those few honest mistakes. I think this would be more of a writing project than an illustrative one. That's my thoughts at the moment.

One thing I think it's worth considering is that a lot of real-world languages have strange, offshoot dialects. Treespeak wasn't bad in and of itself, but it was handled poorly in much of the media it featured in, and it came across as unnecessary and blatant. "If you ride with me, there'll be no foot-walking--just air-flying!" is a good example. The treespeak doesn't change the meaning of the sentence at all. It should have been exclusively used to succinctly convey more complex meanings. A more fluid use is: "Word is, deep-wood, that you seek the seventh Toa!" Here, "deep-wood" is just a shortening of "deep in the woods," and sounds like it could almost be a normal compound word. Words like "huge-big," "terrible-bad," and "rapid-quick" are useless and should have been cut from the dialect; while stuff like "wrong-turn," "bog-foot," and "life-dawn" sound like something that, given time, could be part of an actual English dialect. So, rather than just eliminating some of the lore, it makes more sense to retool it into something more believable.

Edited by Sir Keksalot
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Rule #1: Always listen to Kek.

Rule #2: If you break rule #1, kindly don't.

Rule #3: EVERYBODY TYPE IN THE CHAT "AVAK IS A STUPID TRIGGER"

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2 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

One thing I think it's worth considering is that a lot of real-world languages have strange, offshoot dialects. Treespeak wasn't bad in and of itself, but it was handled poorly in much of the media it featured in, and it came across as unnecessary and blatant. "If you ride with me, there'll be no foot-walking--just air-flying!" is a good example. The treespeak doesn't change the meaning of the sentence at all. It should have been exclusively used to succinctly convey more complex meanings. A more fluid use is: "Word is, deep-wood, that you seek the seventh Toa!" Here, "deep-wood" is just a shortening of "deep in the woods," and sounds like it could almost be a normal compound word. Words like "huge-big," "terrible-bad," and "rapid-quick" are useless and should have been cut from the dialect; while stuff like "wrong-turn," "bog-foot," and "life-dawn" sound like something that, given time, could be part of an actual English dialect. So, rather than just eliminating some of the lore, it makes more sense to retool it into something more believable.

This is a great example of things that could be edited in the dialogue. The appeal for kids comes from the popping colors and legos themselves. The lore is what establishes it for anyone who's interested in more. Even as a kid, I always saw some of it as just flat out goofy. If anyone wants to start a project on this, my discord is in my bio. I can do redraws of whatever may need it.

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6 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

Treespeak wasn't bad in and of itself, but it was handled poorly in much of the media it featured in, and it came across as unnecessary and blatant.

I agree. As a kid, I loved the goofiness (I idolized Toa Metru Matau), but there is a time and a place for this sort of thing. I think it also helped inform Lewa's character a bit especially in the movie. Yes, the actual words and phrases were unnecessary, but the delivery and structure I felt gave an added element of depth and complexity to his character and culture. When done poorly, treespeak was annoying. When done right, treespeak was great.    

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