Makuta Teridax vs the Galactic Republic (Star Wars)

[Alexander123]

Makuta Teridax is teleported to Coruscant as of one year before the Phantom Menace. He is given the form of and replaces Palpatine. How does the Star Wars saga change? Does Anakin still go over to the dark side? Is the Republic still manipulated by dark forces or do the Jedi defeat this menace?

• Round 1: he has no knowledge of the Star Wars Universe.
• Round 2: he is given all of Palpatines knowledge
• Bonus  round: same as round 2 but the rest of the Brotherhood and his servants are teleported to Pillio also

[Lenny7092]

I’d say that Teridax would do what Palpatine did, even thought that he doesn’t reproduce. He just kill Jedi, and if any Jedi or their allies would try to fight him, he would be a one-man army who is hard to be defeated.

[Sir Keksalot]

Terry is a master manipulator and would likely just do as Sheev did; or try to. He'd struggle to really get anything done if he knows nothing about the SW universe, since he needed an intimate understanding of the GSR to know how to take over from the inside. What I wanna know is, can GSR residents be force-capable?

[Xboxtravis]

In a close up fight, Makuta has his Rahkshi powers to overwhelm almost anyone in Star Wars. But from a distance, he would easily be zapped by a Death Star, Holdo Maneuver, Legend's Galaxy Gun, etc... Star Wars has a multitude of super weapons that would just blast Makuta from afar.

My guess is Makuta would lay low for a bit. He's what, about three or four meters tall in his titan form? He'd  probably look just like an advanced binary load lifter, and he could hide as a droid; disguised in the world until he learned enough to know if he could make his move. If he needed to fight, his powers would allow him to obliterate any foe... but he'd probably want to keep a low profile and not draw attention to his abilities. Without energized protodermis, I don't know if Terry could build any Rahkshi to raise an army, but his ability to take over machine bodies could help him hide in droids and convert them to his plans. He would live for thousands of generations past the human lifespan, allowing him to observe and plot much longer than even ideologies such as the Jedi and the Sith could be around. Remember by the point we see Makuta in the main Bionicle story, he is already older than almost the entire history of Star Wars even in the Legends continuity. 

As long as Makuta doesn't choose to live on a place like Aldderran, Hosnian Prime or Kajimi... he'll be fine. 

[Alexander123]

Would he try to turn Anakin to the dark side I wonder? How would Teridax manipulate Anakin and how would this version of Vader turn out?

[Sir Keksalot]

5 minutes ago, Alexander123 said:

Would he try to turn Anakin to the dark side I wonder? How would Teridax manipulate Anakin and how would this version of Vader turn out?

If he would still benefit from it. Bear in mind, Terry works for himself and sees everyone as a pawn; he likely wouldn't care about the dark side or any higher order of the universe, and it's hard to see him reciting the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.

[Merovinchi]

*Takes a long sip of coffee*

This topic is going to be good.

Instead of a Death Star, Makuta commissions a moon-sized gigantic robot.

[Alexander123]

On 3/23/2020 at 7:40 PM, Sir Keksalot said:

What I wanna know is, can GSR residents be force-capable?

If I remember right a shadow hand absorbs the powers of whoever the Makuta absorbs so hypothetically all a Makuta has to do is shadow hand some random Jedi and gain force powers.

 

5 hours ago, Sir Keksalot said:

t's hard to see him reciting the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise.

He would probably tell him the Tragedy of Makuta Miserex the Wise.

[Master Inika]

5 hours ago, Alexander123 said:

If I remember right a shadow hand absorbs the powers of whoever the Makuta absorbs so hypothetically all a Makuta has to do is shadow hand some random Jedi and gain force powers.

 

He would probably tell him the Tragedy of Makuta Miserex the Wise.

It's difficult to see any evil-doer reciting the Tragedy framing themselves as Plagueis. That's the weird thing about the Rule of Two, it's not really "selfish" in the way we envision Sith because the master must, on some level, understand that they point is to find someone better than them to kill them. Its underlying principle is that the Sith as a whole are greater than the individual, which goes against the whole Sith thing of being individualistic. But that's neither here nor there.

I'd consider Teridax vs. Sheev (or Makuta vs. Palpatine, if you're more traditional) to be a quintessential unstoppable force meets an immovable object. It's really anyone's guess who'd win between them.

[Sir Keksalot]

5 hours ago, Alexander123 said:

If I remember right a shadow hand absorbs the powers of whoever the Makuta absorbs so hypothetically all a Makuta has to do is shadow hand some random Jedi and gain force powers.

That would make a fine addition to his...COLLECTION

[Gzstg]

round 1 he likely loses as he has no knowledge and has a mostly melee force against armies who basic infantry weapons can fire from range. I am willing to bet Makuta and Rakshi armor cant stand up to concentrated blaster fire or shots from the various tanks, or resist a lightsaber slash. while I am confident that Makuta and Rakshi could kill scores of clones and droids they are still out gunned and out flight as the Galactic republic would have air superiority. I don't see Makuta wining in a straight fight. his best bet is to lay low and hope that nobody figures out who he is or what he is capable of though I don't think Makuta can take on multiple jedi with force powers all at once especially the council. 

Round 2- he does signifyingly better with Palps knowledge and is able to avoid direct fights he would likely lose and able to manipulate the galactic community to his ends though both scenarios hinge on Makuta being able to understand and navigate completely organic beings. 

Round 3- unless he is able to play the galactic community and upgrade himself and the brotherhood its the same as 1 likely gets killed by multiple jedi masters when they figure out what is going on. 

As for Anikan I don't see him turning to the dark side unless Padme's life is in danger as her life was his prime reason for turning (the jedi corruption was also a factor but not as much as his wife's potential death). the star wars saga definitely changes. is this legends or canon please specify as legend jedi are more op than their canon counterparts and Makuta does better in one universe than then the other. 

Also is Makuta force sensitive? Palpatine was able to hide because he could disguise his dark energy from the jedi even the likes of Yoda. unless Makuta has that ability then I think the jedi figure him out rather quick and end him. 

 

[That Matoran with a Vahi]

5 hours ago, Gzstg said:

Also is Makuta force sensitive? Palpatine was able to hide because he could disguise his dark energy from the jedi even the likes of Yoda. unless Makuta has that ability then I think the jedi figure him out rather quick and end him. 

That, basically. I tried to covering that a couple of days ago in a long post, but couldn't make it work and gave up. You've just summed up everything I wanted to say, and in just two sentences!

Edited March 26, 2020 by That Matoran with a Vahi

[Alexander123]

6 hours ago, Gzstg said:

is this legends or canon please specify

My personal headcanon: Disney canon but all Legends material that takes place before the Phantom Menace is canon. Also how would Teridax's Galactic Empire be and would he be able to defeat the rebellion.

[Gzstg]

6 hours ago, Alexander123 said:

My personal headcanon: Disney canon but all Legends material that takes place before the Phantom Menace is canon. Also how would Teridax's Galactic Empire be and would he be able to defeat the rebellion.

it depends on how good he is at politicking with the organic beings. since legends before Phantom Menace that means the jedi do have access to some stuff to help them and sith weapons like the black wing virus, and the weapon on Moraband ect.  His empire would be something but what I don't know if he forms it at all. if he hates organic beings he could make a droid republic or empire. The problem with predicting this is that your plopping Teridax down in an out of context situation even with palps knowledge he still has to adapt and that would take time. and he may very well alter palps plans and not form the empire. the rebellion may not even happen as it happened because Palpatine overturned the Republic and even then it took nearly 20 years for it to form. and if it does form then he could defeat it if he either adapts himself to resist blaster fire and lightsaber strikes or stays off the battlefield completely. it gets harder the more jedi are around as said before if he doesn't have a way to hid his dark energy then the jedi find him rather quick and end him as they will eventually notice the chancellor is literally made of shaodws and investigate. if he can get force powers he still has to learn them and that takes time as he is not used to it, time he may not have. In conclusion I think he does well if he can successfully politick with the senate and I don't think he forms the empire as Teridax strikes me as a lead from the shadows guy.   

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

Well, all Makuta can possess robotic bodies, right? So this is what happens (footnotes included for any problems):

Palpatine is from a very rich family on Naboo, not to mention the system's Senator for the Galactic Republic. He's got lots of money to begin with, any resources available to the Sith, plus he's an influential politician. He probably has a bunch of staff working for him, which would include droids and computers. This is where Teridax comes in.

As for having no knowledge of the Star Wars universe at first, Teridax is pretty resourceful and can probably deduce things about both the universe and Palpatine fairly quickly.* Teridax possesses one of Palpatine's droid workers (or computers, if he can do that; there weren't really any traditional "computers" in BIONICLE), and commissions a Human Replica Droid that looks like Palpatine.** The android would ostensibly be meant for security purposes, as a decoy to protect the Senator from violent protesters, angry political opponents and would-be assassins. Provided Palpatine simply disappears as soon as Teridax appears, this could all be done immediately, but if not, Teridax would have to "dispose" of the real Palpatine. An epic battle would have to ensue. Can lightsabers cut through protosteel? If so, would the blade cause the antidermis to ignite? And since Makuta don't natively exist in the Star Wars universe, would Teridax be connected to the Force or be affected by Force-based attacks once he got there? He can't be choked, obviously, because he doesn't have lungs anymore, but what about lightning?

Anyway, let's assume Terry kills Palps, destroys the body without a trace, hides his armor and begins controlling the HRD. He has another problem on his hands now: Darth Plagueis, master of Darth Sidious, a.k.a. Senator Palpatine. Surely Plagueis would sense his apprentice's death, and possibly even his absence if he simply disappeared. And once they met, he would surely be able to sense that Teridax was not the real Palpatine. This would also apply to Darth Maul, and possibly to any Jedi that has met or spent any significant amount of time with Palpatine. That also brings us back to the Force: if Teridax lacks Force connection, then any trained Force user would be able to detect (or, rather, not detect) it.*** As far as actually using the Force to reassure Plagueis and Maul, it should be obvious that Teridax can't do so. He does, however, have tons of Kraata powers, so maybe he can fake them somehow, though that wouldn't be much use in training Maul.

Anyway, let's assume**** the rest of The Phantom Menace and its concurrent events go as they would. Teridax, like Palpatine, ousts Valorum, is elected Supreme Chancellor, and kills Plagueis that night. Darth Maul dies (well, as far as anyone knows...) and Naboo gives the Trade Federation the boot. The Jedi learn that the Sith still exist (though technically, in the context of this story, they actually don't because Teridax isn't one of them), and are on the lookout for Sidious. Around this time, Master Dooku leaves the Jedi Order and accepts his birthright as Count of Serenno. This is where things start to fall apart for the rest of the prequel era: Teridax doesn't care about the Force, so why would he accept Dooku as his Sith apprentice?***** Let's just say he does to keep up the "Darth Sidious" part of the facade (after all, the Trade Federation took orders from Sidious, so they'd expect to hear back from him). The Confederacy of Independent Systems forms as expected, and the Clone Wars start. Maybe this is right up Teridax's alley: Palpatine was essentially in control of both warring factions, so whether the Republic or Separatists won, so did Palpatine. Teridax loves trickery, deceit and manipulation.

But then there's the whole "secret Sith Lord" subplot. Like I said, Teridax doesn't care about the Force, so why would he try to seduce Anakin into replacing Dooku as his Sith apprentice? Well, continuing Sith tradition isn't the only benefit to this: Anakin also effectively wiped out the mainstream Jedi Order. The Jedi would be a threat to Teridax, and once it was clear the Republic was winning the war and "Palpatine" (rather than "Sidious") would be the victorious leader, he'd want them out of the picture. Besides, Teridax liked using pawns. Vakama, Ahkmou, the Piraka and the Toa Mahri, anyone? But on to our next obstacle: Mace Windu and his Jedi posse. Mace comes to arrest "Palpatine" for being a Sith Lord. Teridax has to keep up the ruse in order to convince Anakin to join the "Sith" so he can wipe out the Jedi for Teridax. This means Teridax must engage four Jedi Masters, led by legendary lightsaber warrior Mace Windu, in lightsaber combat. Now, Teridax is a decent combatant, and he's smart and catches on to things quickly, but at this point he's never used a lightsaber in his life, other than maybe in some non-lethal duels with his sham apprentices. How's he going to defeat four Jedi Masters using this weapon, and without using his true powers? I guess we just have to assume he does defeat the first three, and Mace beats him back until Anakin arrives.

Well, the rest goes as expected: Anakin kills Mace and becomes Darth Vader, he kills everyone left in the Jedi Temple, then goes to Mustafar and kills the Separatist leaders. "Palpatine" appears before the Senate, disfigured (the only difference here being the combined heat of Mace Windu's lightsaber and Teridax's chain lightning masquerading as force lightning melted the droid's plastic Palpatine face) and kills democracy to thunderous applause by converting the Republic into the Empire. Obi-Wan follows Anakin to Mustafar and they have their duel over the lava. Obi-Wan has the high ground and Anakin tries it. Anakin loses his limbs and falls in the lava, which terribly disfigures him and Obi-Wan leaves him for dead.

And this is where everything changes.

Teridax does not come to Mustafar and Anakin dies. The Brotherhood comes to the galaxy and the Imperial government is quickly dismantled. The Senate is dissolved immediately, rather than 19 years later, and replaced with the Brotherhood members. In order to keep the loyalty of the public and, more importantly, the military, Teridax still gives control of the systems to the Grand Moffs, but the real Grand Moffs have been quietly disposed of and replaced with, you guessed it, more Human Replica Droids designed to look like them, which are then possessed by the other Makuta. Eventually, the Clone Troopers grow too old and are retired. But instead of recruiting Imperial citizens as Stormtroopers, Rahkshi and Visorak become the military might of the Empire. They couldn't do this while the Grand Army was still in commission, because these creatures were clearly alien to the universe. The Clone Troopers would know something was out of place and could have posed a threat.

Basically, at this point, it's the Empire in name only, and the Brotherhood of Makuta is running the show. But the original Empire had some good ideas, thinks Teridax, and he wants to be rid of those pesky other Makuta at some point so he doesn't have to share. I haven't read it, but there was a story in the original EU where IG-88 transfers his mind into the second Death Star's computer system. He essentially becomes the Death Star, a giant, mobile space vessel capable of devastating destruction. He had total control over the entire station, and only complied with the Imperials' commands because he didn't want them to know it yet.

This should sound familiar, because that's pretty much what Teridax did with the Great Spirit Robot. If Teridax can possess a Death Star, he's basically on top of the world and doesn't need the other Makuta. But during all this, there's still room for the Rebel Alliance to form. And remember what the Rebels did to the Death Star twice?

When I read "Teridax in the Star Wars Universe," I almost immediately made a parallel between Teridax/GSR and IG-88/Death Star II, so that's really what I was building up to and so I guess this is the end. Anyway, thanks for reading my long, dumb rambling.

Thank you and good night...

*Except Teridax speaks Matoran, not Basic, so he couldn't just read up on history or eavesdrop on people's conversations; he would literally have to observe, by watching people, to learn about the universe, and learn Basic the same way (and even if he brought a Rau with him, it wouldn't work on languages not invented by the Great Beings). Hey, Krahka learned Matoran over the course of a few hours, so at least we know certain Matoran Universe beings are capable of learning new languages really, really fast.

**According to Wookieepedia, however, Human Replica Droids were not perfected until after the Empire was already established. Let's just say this is a prototype.

***There are beings like this in the original Star Wars Expanded Universe ("Star Wars Legends"). They're called "voids" and are able to prevent Force users from tracking them via the Force, and people who meet them are often unable to recall what they look like after parting with them. (Note that while voids have no apparent connection to the Force, they are, in fact, connected to it, as being a void is an inherent Force ability affiliated with the Dark Side.) So maybe the Jedi can consider Palpatine a void now, though that should make them immediately suspicious anyway.

****It's inappropriate to start two paragraphs exactly the same way, but it's late at night and I don't care right now.

*****Of course Palpatine, while caring about the Force, only followed the Rule of Two as tradition. In both Legends and Disney canon, he had absolutely no intention of being replaced by his apprentice or even dying at all. Also, like Maul, training Dooku in the Dark Side of the Force is going to be hard when Teridax has no way of using the Force.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese
Typos.

[Master Inika]

4 hours ago, Cheesy Mac n Cheese said:

*snip*

Very well-thought-out; however, I would say taking for granted that Makuta could defeat Palpatine is quite an assumption to make. Remember, Palpatine is a master of the Dark Side. What comes to mind here is Darth Maul being found by Death Watch in The Clone Wars, which he considered a sign from the Force itself that he was meant to earn their trust, use them to conquer Mandalore, and betray them as soon as the system was in his control. And Maul never advanced passed apprentice, so imagine what kind of convenient coincidences might happen in Palpatine's favor even against someone as powerful as Makuta.

Thinking further, Pre Vizsla planned on betraying Maul too, but Maul struck first, and defeated him decisively but I would not necessarily say easily. Palps vs. Terry would basically be an amped-up version of that fight. If I had to guess, I would say Palpatine's Force abilities would help him win, but it would not be an easy victory, and if you told me Makuta would manage some kind of last-ditch dirty trick that got the best of Palpatine for a split second, and Makuta in that second delivered the killing blow, I'd believe you. The main point I would change, though, is that there would probably be a considerable length of time (I'm talking years) where Makuta and Palpatine were both aware of each other and working together, both planning on betraying the other when the time was right. Unlike Maul vs. Vizsla, however, Makuta and Palpatine are probably much closer in power level, so it would be a closer fight. I'm just spitballing numbers here, but if Vizsla had a 30% change of beating Maul, Makuta might have a 40% change at beating Palpatine and becoming the Emperor himself.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

9 hours ago, Master Inika said:

Very well-thought-out; however, I would say taking for granted that Makuta could defeat Palpatine is quite an assumption to make. Remember, Palpatine is a master of the Dark Side. What comes to mind here is Darth Maul being found by Death Watch in The Clone Wars, which he considered a sign from the Force itself that he was meant to earn their trust, use them to conquer Mandalore, and betray them as soon as the system was in his control. And Maul never advanced passed apprentice, so imagine what kind of convenient coincidences might happen in Palpatine's favor even against someone as powerful as Makuta.

Thinking further, Pre Vizsla planned on betraying Maul too, but Maul struck first, and defeated him decisively but I would not necessarily say easily. Palps vs. Terry would basically be an amped-up version of that fight. If I had to guess, I would say Palpatine's Force abilities would help him win, but it would not be an easy victory, and if you told me Makuta would manage some kind of last-ditch dirty trick that got the best of Palpatine for a split second, and Makuta in that second delivered the killing blow, I'd believe you. The main point I would change, though, is that there would probably be a considerable length of time (I'm talking years) where Makuta and Palpatine were both aware of each other and working together, both planning on betraying the other when the time was right. Unlike Maul vs. Vizsla, however, Makuta and Palpatine are probably much closer in power level, so it would be a closer fight. I'm just spitballing numbers here, but if Vizsla had a 30% change of beating Maul, Makuta might have a 40% change at beating Palpatine and becoming the Emperor himself.

You bring up good points, but I was trying to go by the prompts in the first post, so I just had to kind of assume Teridax defeats Palpatine. I’m not entirely sure he could, myself, especially if he only arrived one year prior to TPM and had to assume Palpatine’s identity by the time the movie took place.

Then again, the first post doesn’t say whether he actually has to kill Palpatine or if Palpatine simply disappears and Teridax magically takes his place. And since you brought up Maul taking over Mandalore (something I considered bringing up in my original post, but decided to skip due to its relative irrelevance to where I was heading), I’m going to go ahead and say that  Teridax would probably not, in the guise of Sidious, go to Mandalore to kill Savage Opress and capture Maul, unless it’s to preserve the ruse of caring about the Sith. But it seems like something that Teridax simply wouldn’t care enough about to do. After all, it’s not like he went back to Metru Nui to finish off Dume, the Rahaga and Keetongu during the first 1000 years after the Great Cataclysm, and when he learned Miserix was still alive, he consciously made the choice to keep him alive. Teridax actually doesn’t seem too fond of killing people; they’re simply too useful as potential pawns (that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t kill Palpatine though; like Mace Windu said, he’s too dangerous to keep alive).

Edited April 3, 2020 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese
Typos.

[Alexander123]

Palpatine is teleported to the Great Spirit Robot where he is quickly killed by Tren Krom. Teridax does not have to fight him.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

1 hour ago, Alexander123 said:

Palpatine is teleported to the Great Spirit Robot where he is quickly killed by Tren Krom. Teridax does not have to fight him.

Why Tren Krom? Because he can kill someone just by blinking, I assume?

I'd also like to point out two flaws.

The first flaw is in the prompt: while it specifies exactly which point in Star Wars history Teridax is dropped into the Star Wars universe, it doeasn't say at what point in BIONICLE history Teridax is plucked out of the BIONICLE universe. Experience and character development can affect the decisions he makes in this story.

The second flaw is in my interpretation: it assumes that Teridax decides to go with Palpatine's full plan, and also assumes the Republic wins the war. Teridax is not Palpatine. There are significant personality differences. For example, all Teridax cares about is conquest. Palpatine, on the other hand, enjoys the high life. He loves fine cuisine and fancy entertainment like operas and ballets. He is vain and places much value in physical possessions (he wears expensive clothes and collects valuable artwork and historical relics). He is also somewhat dedicated to the Sith religion and has much reverence for the Force (albeit for the wrong reasons). This means Palpatine answers to a power higher than himself; Teridax does not (that was the whole point behind usurping Mata Nui).  Therefore, even if he goes with Palpatine's plan, I shouldn't have assumed the Separatists lost.

Edited April 4, 2020 by Cheesy Mac n Cheese

[Alexander123]

Teridax is teleported to Star Wars right after his "I am the ground you walk on speech" but before Mata Nui is expelled from his body. He is teleported into his 2003 body. Also if the other Makuta are the Grand Moffs then the imperial remnant/warlords/First Order just got lot scarier.

[Cheesy Mac n Cheese]

12 hours ago, Alexander123 said:

Teridax is teleported to Star Wars right after his "I am the ground you walk on speech" but before Mata Nui is expelled from his body. He is teleported into his 2003 body. Also if the other Makuta are the Grand Moffs then the imperial remnant/warlords/First Order just got lot scarier.

So, basically, it's Teridax as of 2009?

[1womanarmy]

12 hours ago, Alexander123 said:

Teridax is teleported to Star Wars right after his "I am the ground you walk on speech" but before Mata Nui is expelled from his body. He is teleported into his 2003 body. Also if the other Makuta are the Grand Moffs then the imperial remnant/warlords/First Order just got lot scarier.

With that in mind, if Makuta got control of the Empire, I suspect he would build a giant Mata Nui-esque robot and crush Rebel Ships with his bare hands.

[Lenny7092]

On 4/5/2020 at 3:38 AM, 1womanarmy said:

With that in mind, if Makuta got control of the Empire, I suspect he would build a giant Mata Nui-esque robot and crush Rebel Ships with his bare hands.

Not to mention blow up a planet in one gravity blast. That space ship could move faster than the Death Star. Lol.