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Is this the only instance of Bionicle characters using the Latin Alphabet in universe?


chuckschwa

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I don’t think that’s “canon” per se. The story of Bionicle is presented in English for our convenience, but I don’t think in-universe they’re actually speaking English, or that Latin letters would exist.

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I find it funny that, between the few hours that the Toa transformed into Nuva, someone -- or something -- carved their image into a random cave wall. I also chuckle at the Kal's angsty attitude of graffiting their surname over the Nuva carvings. I understand these panels are meant to act as a "villain tease" but I couldn't help seeing that they goofed using our alphabet characters as opposed to the Matoran text. Unless of course, the Bohrok do indeed use their own unique letters (I doubt it, they don't seem too interested in writing). 

It's like how Latin characters kind of exist in the Star Wars universe despite having their own "basic" lettering (eg. Aubresh "X" does not make the same shape as the aptly named X-wing fighters; Tractor Beam name tag from ANH changed in special edition, etc.) 

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There's also Latin alphabet used in the BIONICLE comic from 2008 where the Toa Nuva enter the Codrex and discover the flying vehicles. Prominently written on the floor in front of the vehicle are the inscribed letters that spell "AXALARA T9". Again, I assume this is artistic license meant to make the meaning clear to the reader (gotta sell those toys, and little Timmy won't be able to tell Grandma what set to buy for his birthday if the text is in the Matoran alphabet and this just happens to be little Timmy's first exposure to BIONICLE).

I assumed back in 2002 when that comic came out that the presence of the Toa Nuva carving in that cave was part of "takedown brainstorming" session wherein the Kal took whatever information they had on the Nuva and compiled it to organize their plan to awakening the Bahrag and releasing the Bohrok swarms once again. After all, the previous pages indicate several days (or maybe even a couple of weeks) have passed since their transformation into Nuva. It's still very fresh for them (hence the sparring match that goes out of control), but they are already aware of reconstruction efforts in the Koro with the aid of reprogrammed Bohrok and Bohrok Va. In all that time, the Kal had been awake, but being the intelligent foes that they were, they probably spent time in the Bahrag lair studying the cube, communicating with Krana that had been used by the Toa to open the doors to the Exo-Toa, and moving to the surface. In the comic, we see the culmination of their plotting, and in a final flourish, Tahnok Kal electrocutes the name of his merry band over the carvings of their plans.

That's just a rough theory I have, though I'm sure arguments could be made that if several days have passed since the Nuva surfaced, any enterprising Matoran could've stopped in that cave to commemorate the sight of the heroes of Mata Nui transformed. After all, Po-Matoran are excellent carvers, and other Matoran (judging by the handiwork in the Wahis) aren't slouches either.

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23 hours ago, chuckschwa said:

I find it funny that, between the few hours that the Toa transformed into Nuva, someone -- or something -- carved their image into a random cave wall.

 

I always interpreted the vast amount of pre-existing cave drawings of contemporary events as the Turaga secretly flexing their prophetic wisdom.

 

The Ta-Matoran don't recognize Tahu after his Nuva transformation,, but Turaga Vakama does. The Turaga clearly understand the importance of the Nuva symbols (they build shrines with assigned guards to "protect" them, even though the Rahi are uninfected and the Bohrok are seemingly defeated), while the Toa Nuva themselves don't (at least, Kopaka doesn't - he dismisses his symbol ("It has no power, Matoro.") and leaves the shrine, only to be quickly robbed of both symbol and power simultaneously). In Comic 7, one of the Toa says "Do you ever get the feeling there's a lot more to this island than we know about?" - and of course there is, most notably the Kraata/Rahkshi and the passage from Mata Nui to Metru Nui; the Toa are frequently oblivious to dangers, while the Turaga always wait to reveal their knowledge until a problem starts. In Comic 13, Turaga Whenua leads Onua and Pohatu to a cave drawing of a Kraata, and inside he reveals a secret prison where the Turaga have spent millennia quietly locking up thousands of Kraata slugs - a revelation that angers Pohatu, who didn't know there were thousands of deadly slugs in a cave "in [his] realm" (Po-Wahi). Whenua's reply: "They were no longer a threat. We did not feel you needed to know." Seconds later, a Kraata-powered Rahkshi opens the prison, freeing all the Kraata slugs... so, now, the Kraata are once again a threat, and we now feel that you need to know. Surprise!! Death slugs! Death slugs - everywhere.

 

The combination of mysterious cave drawings and very mysterious Turaga behavior (When did the Turaga have the time to build a secret cave prison, hunt and capture thousands of slugs, all without alerting their villages to the fact that their leaders have all disappeared in the middle of a huge Rahi war when nobody's supposed to leave the village?!? And you're really not gonna tell the Toa about any of it either? Really?) all helped hype-up Vakama's bombshells in the Mask of Light movie - "The City of the Great Spirit, my island, refound." - and in the last comic - "It is time you knew the truth - - you are not the first Toa!"

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"Kai... Nireta... the other six Kakama-wearers... yep, Ga-Koro's all here!"

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5 hours ago, Hahli, the Chronicler said:

The Ta-Matoran don't recognize Tahu after his Nuva transformation,, but Turaga Vakama does.

I guess I always saw the Nuva as an "accidental transformation" rather than something that was destined or foreseen by the Turaga.

Do the Nuva symbols, or the knowledge of them, ever show up in media taking place before their appearance on Mata Nui? Like, do the Toa Metru encounter a Nuva cube or legend while encountering the Bohrok? I know the Rahkshi and kraata do to some extent, which is why the Turaga would know about them from the slug hunting. 

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1 hour ago, chuckschwa said:

Do the Nuva symbols, or the knowledge of them, ever show up in media taking place before their appearance on Mata Nui? Like, do the Toa Metru encounter a Nuva cube or legend while encountering the Bohrok?

Someone else can feel free to correct me, but I'm fairly certain the Nuva cube and symbols didn't show up in other BIONICLE media at a chronological point prior to the Toa Mata becoming the Nuva. Remember, when the Toa imprisoned the Bahrag and became Toa Nuva, simultaneously on the surface of the island, their Suvas in each Koro lit up with energies of the Nuva and when they settled, the Nuva symbol, newly forged, was present. Therefore, without foreknowledge of the event, it was easy for the Turaga and Matoran to put two and two together that the symbols that conveniently appeared after all the Bohrok Krana died over each Toa's Suva belonged to the Toa Nuva and represent them.

What nobody expected, however, was that the symbols themselves anchored the Toa Nuva's elemental power while in the Suva. I wonder how this worked after the Bohrok finally cleared off the island of Mata Nui. The Nuva managed to free the Bahrag by undoing the seal they made with their elemental powers, so no need to sacrifice their symbols. But with the Suva gone, what happened? Perhaps I should assume during the migration back to Metru Nui, the Turaga took the Nuva symbols and installed them in new, safe places in the various Metrus? Did that mean the Nuva had to spend their (short?) trip to Metru Nui powerless? Then again, I guess they had Takanuva to watch their backs.

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38 minutes ago, Bionicle Guru said:

The Nuva managed to free the Bahrag by undoing the seal they made with their elemental powers, so no need to sacrifice their symbols. But with the Suva gone, what happened? Perhaps I should assume during the migration back to Metru Nui, the Turaga took the Nuva symbols and installed them in new, safe places in the various Metrus?

Hmm... never thought about that!

The Nuva freed the Bahrag after escaping from the Piraka and before arriving at Kardi Nui, and during this time they received their adaptive armor from Arthaka. Maybe their new, special armor rendered their Nuva symbols obsolete? That doesn't really make sense, but then again the Nuva symbols never really made sense to me...

"Kai... Nireta... the other six Kakama-wearers... yep, Ga-Koro's all here!"

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14 minutes ago, Hahli, the Chronicler said:

Hmm... never thought about that!

The Nuva freed the Bahrag after escaping from the Piraka and before arriving at Kardi Nui, and during this time they received their adaptive armor from Arthaka. Maybe their new, special armor rendered their Nuva symbols obsolete? That doesn't really make sense, but then again the Nuva symbols never really made sense to me...

It seems that outside the BIONICLE story, the symbols were cool marketing graphics to lend some "fresh" identity to these new Toa sets that need to stand out from the ones sold the year before. However, considering the role of the Nuva cube and symbols in the 2003 storyline, it is also entirely possible that the BIONICLE team planned ahead for this and created the concept of the Nuva cube and symbols explicitly to set up the Bohrok Kal story that would tide us over until things could begin for the Mask of Light storyline.

BUT, on further reflection, recall other contemporary story imagery from the summer of 2002! Alongside pictures of the Nuva cube and symbols, other images of the Toa Nuva were released, including the infamous one of Tahu Nuva rising from the energized protodermis, only the top half of his Hau Nuva Kanohi visible. It is an iconic image, but it was often cropped. The full image showed two other menacing "bumps" in the protodermis on either side of Tahu, but further behind him. Early theories in mid-2002 suggested these were the other Toa Nuva rising from the liquid, but the sinister, un-Toa-like appearance suggested otherwise. Eventually, Greg Farshtey came out and said the "bumps" were prototypes of the Rahkshi, and most accepted that, as Rahkshi are formed when Kraata are dipped in energized protodermis, just like the Toa were. This never sat well with me because the Mask of Light movie made it clear the Rahkshi were formed around the time of the Mask of Light's discovery, not when the Toa Nuva were created. Furthermore, although we have yet to see these "early prototypes" of the Rahkshi sets, those bumps don't look a lot like Rahkshi at all...they look more like the heads and raised handshields of silver Bohrok!

Here's my point: if the Nuva cube and symbols were only introduced to kick-off the Kal storyline, then that means the story team had already planned out the first half of 2003 by mid-2002. Makes sense, considering how LEGO develops sets anywhere from a year to 3 years (or more) in advance. Considering that imagery of the Nuva (finalized imagery, not prototypes) was seen in early 2002, the images of the Nuva cube and the bumps in the protodermis are contemporaneous and precede the design process for the Rahkshi. So in conclusion, the "bumps" were actually the Kal, Greg was just misinformed (he didn't work in set design), and the Nuva symbols were all part of the story planned for the first half of 2003. They knew in early 2002 they had to start working on the movie and related sets, so I bet the Nuva cube and Kal were part of that "holdover story" for early 2003. It allowed the designers to quickly produce sets for 2003 and then focus on really innovative new ones for summer 2003 and the story team had a good coda to the whole Bohrok saga. Problem was, any long-term significance to the BIONICLE mythos was sacrificed. In the end, people look back on the Kal and the Nuva symbols as a mere footnote before Mask of Light: The Movie because perhaps that was all it was ever intended to be.

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18 hours ago, Bionicle Guru said:

So in conclusion, the "bumps" were actually the Kal

Oh yeah i remember those in the marketing I had forgotten all about them! Never made the connection between them and the Kal. Probably because I had just assumed it was marketing like the Throwbots and Bionicle 2001 with the "evil eyed menace" following the heroes wherever they go. I do really like that idea of the Kal rising from the protodermis vats after the Toa leave. It explains their silver coloring.

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On 8/5/2020 at 10:02 PM, Bionicle Guru said:

Alongside pictures of the Nuva cube and symbols, other images of the Toa Nuva were released, including the infamous one of Tahu Nuva rising from the energized protodermis, only the top half of his Hau Nuva Kanohi visible. It is an iconic image, but it was often cropped. The full image showed two other menacing "bumps" in the protodermis on either side of Tahu, but further behind him. Early theories in mid-2002 suggested these were the other Toa Nuva rising from the liquid, but the sinister, un-Toa-like appearance suggested otherwise. Eventually, Greg Farshtey came out and said the "bumps" were prototypes of the Rahkshi, and most accepted that, as Rahkshi are formed when Kraata are dipped in energized protodermis, just like the Toa were. This never sat well with me because the Mask of Light movie made it clear the Rahkshi were formed around the time of the Mask of Light's discovery, not when the Toa Nuva were created.

minor but important distinction; greg said those are kraata, not rahkshi. which didnt make much sense to me either, until just recently when these mask of light storyboards came up (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LEGO-Bionicle-Storyboard-Copies-by-MIKE-VOSBURG-133-Pages-2002-Domes-of-Doom/114279737078) that establish the kraata were envisioned as being formed from protodermis after all.

that doesnt totally address your concerns with the time jump, but i think the bionicle team wasn't envisioning such a gap between the nuva and mask of light, considering the kal were such a last-minute addition.

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22 hours ago, Peri said:

minor but important distinction; greg said those are kraata, not rahkshi. which didnt make much sense to me either, until just recently when these mask of light storyboards came up (https://www.ebay.com/itm/LEGO-Bionicle-Storyboard-Copies-by-MIKE-VOSBURG-133-Pages-2002-Domes-of-Doom/114279737078) that establish the kraata were envisioned as being formed from protodermis after all.

that doesnt totally address your concerns with the time jump, but i think the bionicle team wasn't envisioning such a gap between the nuva and mask of light, considering the kal were such a last-minute addition.

Those storyboards are fascinating! As an aside, I'm surprised no one has bought them up yet. Yes, you're right; in 2002, they clearly envisioned the Kraata rising from the "mercury" and then going on to enter Rahkshi bodies.

From a sales perspective, LEGO knew even in early 2002 that BIONICLE sets had to be sold in waves. In those early years, it corresponded to releases in Q1 and Q3 for each calendar year. Based on the success of the theme in 2001 and early tracking they undoubtedly were aware of for Q1 2002 (when the Bohrok were released), they had to have something planned for Q1 2003. If the Kal really were a last-minute decision, that implies the Rahkshi were the originally-planned Q1 2003 release. No canister sets for Q3 2003, then, prior to the movie release? I don't think they wanted to let that happen, since the canister sets (particularly Toa) were the biggest sellers (I believe GregF once mentioned 2003 was a weaker one for BIONICLE sales overall because the only new canister sets released were villains). But of course, I wasn't in the room where all that was decided, and I have only the power of retrospect to guide my thinking on the matter. Again, this would all be great fodder for a large, well-detailed and researched "Making Of...BIONICLE" book. For all we know, there may be unseen conceptual imagery of the Toa Nuva rising that shows a further intermediate stage that makes the "bumps", whether they are Kraata or Bohrok Kal, more evident.

Fascinating stuff to consider!

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i don't remember a single freaking time in Bionicle's history where Latin was used! in the comic page the Nuva carvings that are shown are merely just cave drawings/carvings! they have nothing to do with a language that has been dead for the longest freaking time! get over it! -_- 

also, the "bumps" i don't remember either! someone elaborate please! this is new news for me! :/ 

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2 hours ago, TheZOMBIEJ said:

i don't remember a single freaking time in Bionicle's history where Latin was used! in the comic page the Nuva carvings that are shown are merely just cave drawings/carvings! they have nothing to do with a language that has been dead for the longest freaking time! get over it! -_- 

also, the "bumps" i don't remember either! someone elaborate please! this is new news for me! :/ 

He said the Latin alphabet, not the Latin language. What's with your aversion to the Latin language, by the way?

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13 minutes ago, Zestanor said:

He said the Latin alphabet, not the Latin language. What's with your aversion to the Latin language, by the way?

oh, my mistake! :D 

well, i just don't believe in the use ov Latin (especially nowadays) considering there are easier languages to understand and speak! i plan to (at some point) learn how to speak Japanese! i already know some words thanks to the anime realm (call me a weeb, i dare you! lol) but i can only understand the word if it is translated from Japanese alphabet to the English alphabet (but the word is still in Japanese, just not with the symbols in their alphabet)! like the word "kawaii" when translated means "cute" (apparently) or "arigato" means "thank you" or "sensei" means "teacher", etc.! 

why i chose Japanese? i want a Japanese girlfriend at some point in the near future! ha ha!

so yeah! i just don't think Latin is worth trying to write or speak nowadays! and it hasn't been used since the very first iteration ov the Holy Bible! i could be wrong though! it's just dead and i don't see any use in it in modern times! sorry! -_-   

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"Cavern of Light" in the MNOLG is the only in-universe sign to not be written in Matoran letters, and appears in English or German (depending on what language is selected).  I mean, it's obviously a screw up and lots of the MNOLG aren't officially canon, but like, it's there.  ;)

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9 hours ago, TheZOMBIEJ said:

oh, my mistake! :D 

well, i just don't believe in the use ov Latin (especially nowadays) considering there are easier languages to understand and speak! i plan to (at some point) learn how to speak Japanese! i already know some words thanks to the anime realm (call me a weeb, i dare you! lol) but i can only understand the word if it is translated from Japanese alphabet to the English alphabet (but the word is still in Japanese, just not with the symbols in their alphabet)! like the word "kawaii" when translated means "cute" (apparently) or "arigato" means "thank you" or "sensei" means "teacher", etc.! 

why i chose Japanese? i want a Japanese girlfriend at some point in the near future! ha ha!

so yeah! i just don't think Latin is worth trying to write or speak nowadays! and it hasn't been used since the very first iteration ov the Holy Bible! i could be wrong though! it's just dead and i don't see any use in it in modern times! sorry! -_-   

I can read Latin fairly well, and Japanese with the help of a dictionary. You should drop your prejudice toward Latin. Just because it is old and no longer spoken as a mother tongue does not make it unworthy of study. A very high density of the records of western civilization is recorded in Latin, as well as much of our classical poetry, to say nothing of its religious primacy. And the Bible was not originally written in Latin. Latin won’t get you a girlfriend, but it can be used for much nobler causes than that. Or maybe it could get you a really cool girlfriend!

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4 hours ago, Zestanor said:

I can read Latin fairly well, and Japanese with the help of a dictionary. You should drop your prejudice toward Latin. Just because it is old and no longer spoken as a mother tongue does not make it unworthy of study. A very high density of the records of western civilization is recorded in Latin, as well as much of our classical poetry, to say nothing of its religious primacy. And the Bible was not originally written in Latin. Latin won’t get you a girlfriend, but it can be used for much nobler causes than that. Or maybe it could get you a really cool girlfriend!

yeah, i guess you're right! maybe i'm just blindly biased on it due to what i heard in the past! either that or i'm just stupid beyond my Autism (lol)! i'm sorry if i offended you about Latin and i won't do it again! and i can understand why people like to study it, i just don't see myself studying it in the future, but you never know! :D 

anyway, prejudice dropped, and i pray for your forgiveness! maybe there are some things YOU could teach me about Latin (through PM, obv.) that i haven't heard before! and potentially kill my blind bias towards it! i'm legitimately interested if you want to help! also, advice on the Japanese language would be nice too! :) 

 

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