The Next Generation Of Kids

[Makaru]

A "generation" is a [vague] term used to describe a multitude of ideas. It can be a grouping determined by culture, time or experiences. Sometimes it is arbitrarily defined by a difference in age by about thirty years.Almost everyone (if not everyone here) in this topic is the same generation by most of these definitions, whether you like it or not.

[Zerothemaster]

A "generation" is a [vague] term used to describe a multitude of ideas. It can be a grouping determined by culture, time or experiences. Sometimes it is arbitrarily defined by a difference in age by about thirty years.Almost everyone (if not everyone here) in this topic is the same generation by most of these definitions, whether you like it or not.

ThisThis man is a genius

[-Whiplash-]

Yeah, the video game thing is a really stupid thing to be disappointed in people about, partly because the quality of video games is subjective, mostly because it just doesn't matter very much.

The quality isn't the issue, though. The issue is what the game contains. I know that a lot of teens (like me) tend to downplay the effect of the content in games, but it does affect you, even if you don't go and shoot a school full of people the next day. For me, it sticks in my head and I can't think of other things. But it does really affect people, especially the very young, when their minds are more pliable. When you get older, your morals and your opinions solidify, and you know that you can't just go out and shoot people for no good reason (not that young children do that, of course).

This is what I'm talking about. Imy sister brought a teddy bear that the childre borrow for a day, and have to write what they did that day with the bear.One of the entries, mentioned that they played COD: black ops. A five year old should not be playing Call of duty.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

"it sticks in my head and I can't think of other things"If you spend a lot of time doing anything, of course you're going to think of it a lot. Doesn't mean CoD is taking over kids' minds.

[Zerothemaster]

"it sticks in my head and I can't think of other things"If you spend a lot of time doing anything, of course you're going to think of it a lot. Doesn't mean CoD is taking over kids' minds.

no, but it still effects you. That was my point. And, hey, I don't want my kid learning to shoot people when they're 5, whether they go on a shooting spree or no, I still don't want it.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well then, it's a good thing that playing CoD doesn't teach you a single thing about how to actually use a gun.

[Zerothemaster]

I would give the normal refutation to that argument, the numerous example of crazy nutcases using CoD to hone their aiming skills before a shootingbut 1. you all know that already (or should) and 2. such things are overblownBut it still teaches you something, especially when paired with the internet.It's pretty dang realistic.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

If the controller used were shaped less like a normal X-Box 360 controller and more like an AK-47, I would agree. The issue with these cases where someone played a violent video game and then shot people is that people take a (very) loose correlation and interpret it as proof of causation.

[Zerothemaster]

I agree that video games do not CAUSE shootings.But they can definitely ASSIST in the preparation.

Anders Behring Breivik wrote in his 1500 page manifesto that he used Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 to train for his attack.

From an online magazine about a recent shooting in Norway. And this is a quote from the shooter on his manifesto:

"Target practice is likely going to be a problem for many people in certain countries (urban Europeans like us, ouch:). Consider taking a vacation to a country where you are able to train in marksmanship or join a gun club. Simulation by playing Call of Duty, Modern Warfare is a good alternative as well but you should try to get some practice with a real assault rifle (with red point optic) if possible."

I can't provide better proof that one can use CoD to train decently well.Again, I do not believe that VGs cause shootings.

[-Whiplash-]

I can't remeber

"it sticks in my head and I can't think of other things"If you spend a lot of time doing anything, of course you're going to think of it a lot. Doesn't mean CoD is taking over kids' minds.

Your acting like it does not effect children at all. What you are exposed to at a young age has an impact on who you are. Edited February 29, 2012 by Shuma-Gorath

[Laughing Man]

God, the whole mindset that video games influence you to be a bloodthirsty killer is essentially a modernization of the old belief that listening to rock music would turn you into an agent of Satan.As for the idea that playing such games "desensitizes" you, I can refute that from personal experience. I play video games where you kill zombies with a chainsaw, yet I literally get ill at the site of a bleeding papercut.And then there's also the implication that being desensitized to blood and violence is entirely a bad thing. Newsflash: You kinda have to be desensitized to some extent in order to be a cop, soldier, doctor, or any other life-saving, important occupation.Finally, if playing violent video games leads someone to become a ruthless murderer, then there was obviously something mentally wrong from the start. Such things cannot be caused solely by what you play or watch. You don't just snap like that. There's always something else, some deeper psychological issues to begin with.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Eucliwood

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

@Zero: Fair enough. I'll accept that video games can, in the hands of someone already determined to do something, function as preparation for the task.Of course, the issue here, when it's children involved, is, I think, parental discretion. The kids don't have a bank account, so if the parents think a game is in bad taste, they can act on that and keep the kid from buying the game. In some cases - not necessarily a majority - parents are simply apathetic regarding video games.@Shuma: While I don't think it has no influence at all, I do think that, compared to many other things, video games are an incredibly small influence.

Edited February 29, 2012 by The Shadows Out of Time

[Makaru]

I would give the normal refutation to that argument, the numerous example of crazy nutcases using CoD to hone their aiming skills before a shooting

No. There is not a single believable case of this ever happening because it is an utterly silly idea. Warfare games are as effective at teaching people how to hone their precision as driving games are at teaching you to parallel park. The way you use a controller on a TV screen is counterintuitive[/u] to how actual eye-hand coordination works.Think about platforming in a video game and how frustrating that is to do. it's the same in every regard of spatial awareness between game and life.The problem is, as it has always been since the days of Heavy Metal in the 1970's is a combination of bad/absent parenting and pre-existing crazy conditions. Edited February 29, 2012 by Makaru

[-Whiplash-]

Of course, the issue here, when it's children involved, is, I think, parental discretion. The kids don't have a bank account, so if the parents think a game is in bad taste, they can act on that and keep the kid from buying the game. In some cases - not necessarily a majority - parents are simply apathetic regarding video games.

I do not think violence in media makes you violent. (I myself played Mortal kombat 2 as a kid, but compared some of the games out now, MK2 is sunshine and lolipops.)But I highly doubt that it should be exceptable for children. Would you, as parent say: "okay son, you can play God of war." to your 5 yar old?I know I wouldn't. I have beaten all 5 god of war games, and I even thought some of the violence in them was to Graphic for me. Edited February 29, 2012 by Shuma-Gorath

[Zerothemaster]

Of course, the issue here, when it's children involved, is, I think, parental discretion. The kids don't have a bank account, so if the parents think a game is in bad taste, they can act on that and keep the kid from buying the game. In some cases - not necessarily a majority - parents are simply apathetic regarding video games.@Shuma: While I don't think it has no influence at all, I do think that, compared to many other things, video games are an incredibly small influence.

I agree that it is the job of the parent to decide. They should make a logical decision as for what is best for their child. I may not agree, but I'm not the parent, so I have no say.

I would give the normal refutation to that argument, the numerous example of crazy nutcases using CoD to hone their aiming skills before a shooting

No. There is not a single believable case of this ever happening because it is an utterly silly idea. Warfare games are as effective at teaching people how to hone their precision as driving games are at teaching you to parallel park. The way you use a controller on a TV screen is counterintuitive[/u] to how actual eye-hand coordination works.

Anders Behring Breivik wrote in his 1500 page manifesto that he used Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 to train for his attack.

"Target practice is likely going to be a problem for many people in certain countries (urban Europeans like us, ouch:). Consider taking a vacation to a country where you are able to train in marksmanship or join a gun club. Simulation by playing Call of Duty, Modern Warfare is a good alternative as well but you should try to get some practice with a real assault rifle (with red point optic) if possible."

I can't provide better proof that one can use CoD to train decently well.

Already responded to that. I can't speak from experience, but maybe the guy who killed 26 people in Norway can.

[Rarity]

It can help your coordination. And that's about all.Actually, look up the IGN article about Soldiers talking about those games. They said it's nothing like real life.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Yeah. The only thing those games could maybe help with is aiming, and, given that the controller is shaped like a controller, not a gun, even that benefit is minimal.Honestly, come to think of it, you're taking the word of a crazy person as evidence? David Berkowitz said his neighbor's dog told him to kill people, but that doesn't mean dogs are evil.

[Niflheim]

I'd like to state the "kids" at Columbine shooting used Doom to practice and even made a level modeled like their school to train.Obviously, games like CoD are insane action movie games, but can still help shooters "train" in their craziest sense of the word for any shootings and how to reload a gun.But a game can never, by itself, provoke a kid, an adult, or anyone, to go out and shoot people. It can make kids more aggressive(depending on the kid) or hyper, but never go out and shoot someone. If that happens, then the parents and living environment is terrible and it obviously wasn't the game. Another reason everybody thinks videogames are bad is because the media wants to blame something, have people believe them, then stop that product because they don't like it and so they can get money from their company. First it was books for bad behaviour, then comics, then music, then movies, and now videogames. Who knows what will be next on this list of blaming?

[Zerothemaster]

Honestly, come to think of it, you're taking the word of a crazy person as evidence? David Berkowitz said his neighbor's dog told him to kill people, but that doesn't mean dogs are evil.

In literary circles, that is a generalization and a straw man. No, dogs are not evil. But, again, I AM NOT SAYING THAT MW2 CAUSED THE SHOOTING. What I am saying is, that this guy claims to have used it to TRAIN. If he had claimed that the main character had reached through the screen and told him to shoot 26 people, I would be more skeptical. But this is at least a reasonable argument, from a shooter who didn't show signs of total insanity, just overblown political extremism. Not a dog telling him to shoot people.

[Rarity]

But how would it help him train?

[Zerothemaster]

Heck if I know. I don't have any desire to read a 1500-page manifesto by some Norwegian extremism to find out.

[Angel Beat]

If anything, he was probably crazy enough to think that the game taught him, even if it was probably not the case. *shrug*

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

But, again, he is still kind of a crazy person. His word is still suspect, and, considering the world of difference between CoD and actually handling a gun, there being more than a grain of truth to it is quite unlikely.

[Archer Vonn]

I didn't skim the analogy, I read the whole thing. It just applies very poorly to the situation.

you're not helping your cause!

by bad game do you mean its not quality enough? or it's a negative influence?

Both. Parents should pay way more attention to the ratings on he box and be subjective. "Do I really want my child blowing fidel castro's face off?"Do I really want this game, which desensitises you from killing, to be played by my children?

what does the quality of a game have to do with whether or not kids should be playing it?

i know a few of you are legal adults, but how many of you are kids? or teenagers? what makes you criticize like you do?

I pay taxes, and I live entirely off of my own income. And I think the lot of you are nuts./opinion

Isn't that kind of obvious, though? If I wasn't nuts, I wouldn't bother to say anything on whether Call of Duty is pulling a Socrates and corrupting the youth. (Pretty good chance it isn't, by the way.)

which really begs the question, who are you to talk about other people?

[Waffles]

"Raises the question", not "begs the question". They have completely different meanings.Sorry, that's the only thing I can add to the discussion.

[Archer Vonn]

not gonna pretend my english is perfect; my heavy use of slang reflects that.

[Transcendence]

It's funny how people believe video games cause violence. If video games do that, then why is it that actual, real, non-digital physical abuse does the exact opposite? Being exposed to real violence creates a fear for people who employ it (I know what I'm talking about, so don't go there), so how are video games supposed to promote violence and anger?

[Alex Humva]

Just like to throw it out there, using CoD as a training device will get you killed very quickly in the real world. I'll spell out the lists of reasons I can think of in five seconds.~Aiming a gun=/=moving control sticks.~Getting shot by a gun=/=red appears on the screen for a bit then vanishes.~Shooting a gun=/=Screen and controller shakes.To put it another way, a gun is a whale. CoD is a horse. You're trying to learn how to ride them. Learning to ride a horse will not help you ride a whale. It might brief you on the general concepts, but it just isn't enough. There needs to be hands on experience firing weapons, otherwise, it won't work that great.

[Queen of Liars]

I skimmed through the last couple of pages and would just like to add my general opinion.Video games don't cause violence and are just a scapegoat that the mass media uses to direct the blame away from society's faults. In the 70s they said listening to Alice Cooper made children violent, in the 90s it was slasher films and Marilyn Manson, now it's video games. Same thing, different scapegoat.As a matter of fact, research I mentioned a few pages ago has showed that being exposed to violent media helps release tension and actually makes people less aggressive than those with no exposure to it.As for using CoD as weapons training... It's quite honestly ridiculous. Playing a video game and using a gun are completely different and I think the posters before me explained why. Not to mention that how the characters use guns in CoD is not at all accurate to real life. I never touched a gun but it's still obvious that using one is nothing like it's shown in that game.

[Simulacrum]

It's funny how people believe video games cause violence.If video games do that, then why is it that actual, real, non-digital physical abuse does the exact opposite?Being exposed to real violence creates a fear for people who employ it (I know what I'm talking about, so don't go there), so how are video games supposed to promote violence and anger?

Because video games are fun. Or at least that's how I see it. Playing CoD (Why does everyone bring this one game up?) you normally treat it as a game, which it is, and have no problem with shooting down fake human beings. You do not fear the violence, and instead enjoy it. I'm not saying playing a shooter game equals going outside with a rifle and killing, but the fact people enjoy (Even if it is fake) violence is disturbing.

[DYLAN the SINKING STAR]

How is enjoying fake violence disturbing? If I equate it to a movie with violence, if I enjoy that movie is it also disturbing in any way?I honestly think video games will not affect a person in almost any way. For example, I've never wanted to be in the army and use guns and after playing shooters and other violent video games I still have the same viewpoint. I don't have any more of a need to kill people with guns (for whatever the reason). If someone is violent before playing video games then it's also likely that they will still be violent afterwards. They really have little to no effect on a person and I can only disagree with people who believe that a video game will turn an average person into a bloodthirsty killer.

[BioGio]

Re: Enjoying fake violence: Batman beats up enemies using a variety of tools and brute force. Reading (and enjoying) Batman comics regularly doesn't make me any more violent that you are. The authors and illustrators of the Batman comics aren't violent criminals (for the most part, I'm assuming), and they have to make up this stuff. So people liking fiction shouldn't "disturb" you.

Video games don't cause violence and are just a scapegoat that the mass media uses to direct the blame away from society's faults. In the 70s they said listening to Alice Cooper made children violent, in the 90s it was slasher films and Marilyn Manson, now it's video games. Same thing, different scapegoat.As a matter of fact, research I mentioned a few pages ago has showed that being exposed to violent media helps release tension and actually makes people less aggressive than those with no exposure to it.

In before the people telling you that you don't understand because their witches are realer. Really, the discussion has gotten to the point that it's like an ouroboros of people refusing to listen to each other.I'll concede that there have been some good points on the other side about how some specific people are rude, uncultured, etc., but I'm ideologically opposed to seeing people's problems with their little brothers or other six-year-old punks (or whatever one may get worked up about) as indicative of a decline in society as a whole.~ BioGio Edited March 1, 2012 by BioGio

[Simulacrum]

How is enjoying fake violence disturbing? If I equate it to a movie with violence, if I enjoy that movie is it also disturbing in any way?I honestly think video games will not affect a person in almost any way. For example, I've never wanted to be in the army and use guns and after playing shooters and other violent video games I still have the same viewpoint. I don't have any more of a need to kill people with guns (for whatever the reason). If someone is violent before playing video games then it's also likely that they will still be violent afterwards. They really have little to no effect on a person and I can only disagree with people who believe that a video game will turn an average person into a bloodthirsty killer.

I believe I might have worded my post wrong. Many of the films I watch and enjoy contain violence. However, when I see someone playing a video game, I am almost constantly hearing them say. "Shoot that guy!' "YES! Headshot!" "Kill him now!" and the such. It makes me cringe. Also, you brought up how Video Games don't make you want to go kill or shoot guns. I don't think that videogames effect you that much, but, in my opinion, they effect the mind in subtle ways.

[Canama]

I'd like to state the "kids" at Columbine shooting used Doom to practice and even made a level modeled like their school to train.

The "level based off the school" thing is actually a myth, as confirmed by Snopes. They never made any such level.And as stated, the idea of using Doom as a training mechanism is absurd.This sentence is sitting comfortably at zero points for two attempts.-Canama Edited March 2, 2012 by Canama

[Archer Vonn]

The authors and illustrators of the Batman comics aren't violent criminals (for the most part, I'm assuming), and they have to make up this stuff. So people liking fiction shouldn't "disturb" you.

the argument could be made that those people are adults and not as impressionable.

[ShellHead]

It's funny how people believe video games cause violence.If video games do that, then why is it that actual, real, non-digital physical abuse does the exact opposite?Being exposed to real violence creates a fear for people who employ it (I know what I'm talking about, so don't go there), so how are video games supposed to promote violence and anger?

I was abused as a child and it can really go either way. You can learn violence is wrong or learn how to be violent but it all depends on the person

[BioGio]

The authors and illustrators of the Batman comics aren't violent criminals (for the most part, I'm assuming), and they have to make up this stuff. So people liking fiction shouldn't "disturb" you.

the argument could be made that those people are adults and not as impressionable.

That's certainly a fair point, but I meant more that you don't have to be violent or otherwise mentally unstable to enjoy (writing/thinking about) violence. I'd think that, given the idea that enjoying fake violence makes one more aggressive--or should otherwise cause concern--, the people who generate the ideas would have to be highly aggressive (assuming they like their job, lol)--which is clearly not the case.~ BioGio

[Archer Vonn]

im under the impression that video games have a negative influence if a very subtle one. personalities just slowly but surely turn sour, just enough for all of us to ignore them and call people morons for thinking video games make us angry or violent.see, someone who doesn't play video games wouldn't call the idea moronic or, to pick on mr. canama up there, absurd.

[DYLAN the SINKING STAR]

Well I know plenty of people who play video games and they are often way more intelligent and overall have better personalities than say the jocks at school.The correlation doesn't exist and I think individual personalities and the environments that affect them have way more pertinence and lasting effects than video games will have.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

im under the impression that rock music has a negative influence if a very subtle one. personalities just slowly but surely turn sour, just enough for all of us to ignore them and call people morons for thinking rock music makes us angry or violent.see, someone who doesn't listen to rock music wouldn't call the idea moronic or, to pick on mr. canama up there, absurd.

Just switch the nouns and adjust the verbs, and this applies fairly well to any past moral panic.