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opinion: no, we DON'T need bionicle back

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1 minute ago, Nektann said:

Thanks, I'll need it, that's why I'm taking 2 paths at once and it will be many months before I publish the public version. I'm only really providing a structure and foundation as there's no way I can do everything for any kind of reboot.

Did you read anything else I said besides good luck?


#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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1 minute ago, Lorentz said:

Did you read anything else I said besides good luck?

I did, but if I completely accept that attitude to "protect myself" then it will never happen, will it?


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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19 hours ago, Nektann said:

One will be a story I develop to school the public on how a powerhouse theme like this could rise again

Why does the public need to be schooled on this?

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1 hour ago, Fyndegil said:

Why does the public need to be schooled on this?

Because demand needs to be generated before the product can come back. How I said it however was influenced by the attitude in Lorentz's reply to me.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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On 11/11/2021 at 1:58 PM, Nektann said:

I did, but if I completely accept that attitude to "protect myself" then it will never happen, will it?

what


#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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5 hours ago, Nektann said:

Because demand needs to be generated before the product can come back. How I said it however was influenced by the attitude in Lorentz's reply to me.

What do you know about "schooling the public" about the financial prospects of toys? Are you a businessman?

Edited by Lorentz

#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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10 minutes ago, Lorentz said:

What do you know about "schooling the public" about the financial prospects of toys? Are you a businessman?

No, but I am aspiring to be one.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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On 11/12/2021 at 9:21 AM, Nektann said:

Because demand needs to be generated before the product can come back. How I said it however was influenced by the attitude in Lorentz's reply to me.

Out of curiosity, how would "schooling the public" necessarily generate demand for the product? Does this entail some sort of advertising campaign?

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53 minutes ago, Laval- Master of Energy said:

Out of curiosity, how would "schooling the public" necessarily generate demand for the product? Does this entail some sort of advertising campaign?

Yeah, but a sort of guerilla marketing at first.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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I'm not really following. Are you doing that to look for investors?

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3 minutes ago, Fyndegil said:

I'm not really following. Are you doing that to look for investors?

Not to invest money first, invest people and then worry about money if I ever get the chance.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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If I can throw in my 2¢, (and this is may be outside the scope of the current discussion) I know a fatigue I've personally had in the entertainment realm has been 'nobody's making anything original anymore. It's all just reboots and spinoffs*'. Specifically, I'm thinking of Disney and their live-action remakes. However, Batman and Sherlock Holmes are also up there. Maybe Spider-man, but I'm very biased in his favor. Anyways. I understand there's a 'whole new generation' to be captured, but the only headlines I really see about the remakes are how they're a flop and a money-grab. I know I felt that way when G2 came out, and cynical old me would definitely be pessimistic and probably embarrassed if a G3 tried to start up. 

*Slight counterpiont - certain spin-offs, though, are definitely worthwhile, but they're the ones that kind of add depth to characters and canon (examples that jump to mind are Falcon & Winter Soldier and The Mandalorian). At one point, I was on-board with the Bionicle spin-off series (the serials), but the whole multi-verse dimension hopping was just not appealing. Again, I'd have preferred depth of breadth. 

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Thought of more 'overdone reboot' examples
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The reason we have Transformers toys today is that Hasbro knew when to end G2 and usher in an entirely new series that shared concepts and names, but reinvented the whole franchise with the 90's series Beast Wars. I think bionicle could also come back if it could also reinvent itself to bring new fans in and cash in on returning fans as well.

I don't know if and when this would happen, but Lego looked at the entire thing wrong when making G2.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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4 hours ago, Nektann said:

Not to invest money first, invest people and then worry about money if I ever get the chance.

I feel you've got the wrong audience for that. The general public consumes a franchise, they don't need to be educated on how to reboot a franchise.

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3 minutes ago, Fyndegil said:

I feel you've got the wrong audience for that. The general public consumes a franchise, they don't need to be educated on how to reboot a franchise.

Most of my content and publishing would to be in order to get people interested in bionicle G1 and the rest would be a worldbuilding and research experiment. Even if this experiment is a failure, I will be sharpened and hopefully more prepared to tackle personal projects.

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Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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7 hours ago, Nektann said:

...but reinvented the whole franchise with the 90's series Beast Wars. I think bionicle could also come back if it could also reinvent itself to bring new fans in and cash in on returning fans as well.

I don't know if and when this would happen, but Lego looked at the entire thing wrong when making G2.

Wasn't G2 itself a reinvention of Bionicle? What exactly is wrong with G2, in your view?


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9 hours ago, Fyndegil said:

Wasn't G2 itself a reinvention of Bionicle? What exactly is wrong with G2, in your view?

It made characters carbon copies of each other, dumbed down the story making it generally uninteresting to the audience that pulled in most of the fans of G1. It also made toa sets into titan sets instead of making mid size characters great again. A lot of stuff was heavily abridged or modified to be worse, not better. It was more like transformers G2 than Beast wars, because the concept was generally the same, but a lot was removed. Well and Lego expected us returning fans to do most of the marketing.

Don't get me wrong, most of the sets were great, but skull villains, come on. The foe wasn't real or interesting enough for me. 


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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On 11/12/2021 at 11:21 AM, Nektann said:

How I said it however was influenced by the attitude in Lorentz's reply to me.

I just thought of something wrt this. You're not going to make it as any kind of content creator if you're thin skinned and react defensively to criticism. Personally, you shouldn't let other people's hostility make you become hostile. On top of that, if you're in creative work and you have emotional or instinctive responses to critics it's going to mess with you too much.

I'm not defending people who are hostile. I'm saying all this because I've dealt with people like that in the past and have let my instincts or emotions dictate my responses, when I should have stayed calm or just stayed with my original vision.

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41 minutes ago, Fyndegil said:

I just thought of something wrt this. You're not going to make it as any kind of content creator if you're thin skinned and react defensively to criticism. Personally, you shouldn't let other people's hostility make you become hostile. On top of that, if you're in creative work and you have emotional or instinctive responses to critics it's going to mess with you too much.

I'm not defending people who are hostile. I'm saying all this because I've dealt with people like that in the past and have let my instincts or emotions dictate my responses, when I should have stayed calm or just stayed with my original vision.

Thanks for reminding me not to respond first thing in the morning. Forgive me for how I said things. A lot of what I'm replying is the fire inside my head, but it's hampering my foundation. How can I make friends when pushing people away after all? If I start my journey with arrogance and entitlement then I'm on the wrong path, sure I can do things, but how I do them will be what suppresses or will help my full potential.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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22 hours ago, Nektann said:

Yeah, but a sort of guerilla marketing at first.

Interesting. There's a lot of different methods for guerilla marketing, though. Would it involve road shows, contests, flyer distribution, word-of-mouth, or something completely different?

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4 hours ago, Nektann said:

Thanks for reminding me not to respond first thing in the morning. Forgive me for how I said things. A lot of what I'm replying is the fire inside my head, but it's hampering my foundation. How can I make friends when pushing people away after all? If I start my journey with arrogance and entitlement then I'm on the wrong path, sure I can do things, but how I do them will be what suppresses or will help my full potential.

What are some concrete steps you're going to take to get people interested in your Bionicle reboot? And how are you planning to set it apart from #biovival?

Edited by Lorentz

#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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3 hours ago, Lorentz said:

What are some concrete steps you're going to take to get people interested in your Bionicle reboot? And how are you planning to set it apart from #biovival?

I'll probably reply next week so I can actually make a cohesive and excellent plan in that time.

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Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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seems like my thread has attracted more absolute clown behavior.

On 11/11/2021 at 1:50 PM, Nektann said:

I don't want Bionicle's 2nd revival to happen in the immediate future, but I do want it to happen, because I love the theme. I picked up the theme in 2015, but put aside the new sets in favor of the older sets and media because the 2015 revival was made of many weak links that quickly shattered and the older concepts were way more compelling. The reason I want it to wait but still happen is because then I can be a huge part of bringing it back as well as the question "What is Bionicle?" will become more relevant for the corporate side of TLG to answer and execute. Long are the days of this powerhouse theme and as such the brand must have the entire world learn again what the Biological Chronicle is. 

Anyway I'm planning on stringing together my own story bibles in the future to revive the theme in my own mind at the very least. There will be two routes I will take: One will be a story I develop to school the public on how a powerhouse theme like this could rise again and another will be developed in private to pitch to TLG that will likely have more interesting plot elements and surprises. Each of these rough drafts will be based on the same standard power structure surrounding each of the elements in a balanced lore-rich way so that regardless a lot less retcon would take place and the writers would have the ability to expand on the universe in an interesting way that doesn't feel like what happened with the Bohrok Kal line of sets.

Feel free to reply with suggestions or critique.

oh, my sweet summer child.

i'm going to focus on two points in this circus of a post.  first, it is the nature of powerhouses to eventually crumble.  it happened with bionicle G1, and- because i already know somebody's going to bring them up at some point- it's happening with the marvel and star wars movies.  (slower, in their cases, but it's still happening.)  corporate mishandling, lack of truly fresh ideas, and general fading interest in a thing that's been at the pop cultural forefront for a long time all combine to produce the thing called seasonal rot.  and when seasonal rot sets in- like it has with bionicle, marvel, and star wars- it is the nature of people to seek out something else that will soothe the itch that the "powerhouses" are failing to scratch.

second, you've got the pitching process backwards.  bionicle is an intellectual property owned by lego.  they're going to be the ones pitching it to outsiders in the hope of getting them to work on it, not the other way around.  if you, not being on lego's payroll, waltzed into their headquarters and said "here's how you're going to do bionicle again," they'd laugh you out of the room.  and if they caught you advertising- or, as you put it, "generating demand-" for something they own, without their consent or involvement, they'd slap you with a cease and desist.  "generating demand" for bionicle is their job, not yours.

On 11/12/2021 at 11:21 AM, Nektann said:

Because demand needs to be generated before the product can come back.

hypothetically, if you weren't going to get in serious legal trouble for it, how would you generate enough demand?  it's highly unlikely that anybody, professional or otherwise, would be interested in investing time and money into another reboot of a toyline that died twice.  even the current fanbase still clinging to the corpse is slowly dying.

On 11/12/2021 at 5:29 PM, Nektann said:

No, but I am aspiring to be one.

if anyone you're trying to impress is going to take you the least bit seriously, maybe you should actually become one first.

On 11/13/2021 at 3:53 PM, Nektann said:

Not to invest money first, invest people and then worry about money if I ever get the chance.

nobody wants to work for free.  without money, you can't invest in people.  or your guerilla marketing.

On 11/13/2021 at 4:30 PM, Nektann said:

The reason we have Transformers toys today is that Hasbro knew when to end G2 and usher in an entirely new series that shared concepts and names, but reinvented the whole franchise with the 90's series Beast Wars. I think bionicle could also come back if it could also reinvent itself to bring new fans in and cash in on returning fans as well.

I don't know if and when this would happen, but Lego looked at the entire thing wrong when making G2.

why do you people keep insisting on comparing bionicle to transformers

no, the reason we have transformers toys today- and the reason that G2 ended- is because hasbro switched from developing transformers toys directly to having one of their subsidiaries do it instead.  while the complete reinvention did attract enough new fans to keep it financially viable for a while, older fans only came to enjoy it after the fact; they hated it at first.

are you suggesting that lego should do this?  saddle a different company with developing a complete reinvention in the hopes that a potential influx of new fans will be enough to offset the alienated older fans who will not want to buy product?  spoiler alert: bionicle's reinvention failed hard enough- both in bringing in new fans and recapturing the attention of older fans- that it was cancelled prematurely.  based on that failure, lego is not likely to try again for a very long time, if at all.

On 11/13/2021 at 8:49 PM, Nektann said:

Most of my content and publishing would to be in order to get people interested in bionicle G1 and the rest would be a worldbuilding and research experiment. Even if this experiment is a failure, I will be sharpened and hopefully more prepared to tackle personal projects.

leave the worldbuilding and research to the hypothetical people who would actually be employed by lego to produce another bionicle reboot.  focus on your personal projects instead.  better yet, if you really want to be "sharpened and hopefully more prepared," then go to business school and learn how to do the things you claim you want to do.

8 hours ago, Nektann said:

If I start my journey with arrogance and entitlement then I'm on the wrong path

mate, your first post in the thread literally said you wanted a hypothetical reboot to happen later so that you can "be a huge part of bringing it back."  you want lego- a billion-dollar company with thousands of qualified employees- to bend to your timetable, for the sake of your interest.  how is that not the definition of arrogance and entitlement?

46 minutes ago, Nektann said:

I'll probably reply next week so I can actually make a cohesive and excellent plan in that time.

so you really have nothing.  noted.

actually, no.  i invite you not to reply here next week.  you've completely derailed the intent of this thread, which was to talk about why the very thing you're proposing doesn't need to happen in the first place.  formulate your "plan" if you still want to, but please take it somewhere other than here.

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Alright, have it your way. You can't learn how to lead in business school, only the bare minimum. I'm a dumb spitwad just trying to stick, but I know this and I'm willing to be laughed at, scorned and chastised if I still have hope in my veins. Also,  almost every large company has 2nd party subsidiaries and since bionicle doesn't quite fit the Lego mold, having a 2nd party handle it while the name brand does the initial selling wouldn't be a terrible idea. Well, I've kinda retreated on the "huge part" thing.

Please stop sounding like a teacher breathing down my neck telling me to get in line, that's not how you change my mind. The best way to do that is to become my friend and break me from the inside, but that would be a waste of both of our times.

I will take this to another thread, so thanks for that reminder.

Have a great November!

Edited by Nektann
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Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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23 hours ago, Nektann said:

You can't learn how to lead in business school, only the bare minimum.

And you know this how?


#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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1 minute ago, Lorentz said:

And you know this how?

Because many top CEOs or other top dogs don't have any degree, you're taught to be an asset in a school, not the head, because when you get hired they look for credentials, but when one starts something they get to set their own rules, not play by the ones the average public play by. This is done at great risk of course, 90% of first time business fails, and it only gets slightly better for those who try again. I know I gotta have the right ideas, at the right time around the right people in order to succeed, so I can't easily do what I want to happen when it comes to ideas I do not own.

Anyway, I'm going to move this discussion to another thread once I have substantial plans for the first execution of my mad thinking, so we shouldn't be responding here anymore in accordance with the thread starter's wishes.


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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Many top CEOs and other top dogs don't have degrees, but they're a very small group compared to those that do, and they usually went to college for some time before dropping out anyway. That being said, the current CEO of Microsoft has three degrees, one of which is a Masters of Business Administration. 

Unless you think you're the next Gates, Jobs, or Zuckerberg, you should consider going to business school if you're planning on getting into business. That "bare minimum" you mentioned is probably vital to getting anywhere. 
 

4 hours ago, Nektann said:

you're taught to be an asset in a school, not the head

The management courses I've taken suggest otherwise. And we're talking about universities that routinely pump out successful entrepreneurs, not high schools that treat students like inmates. 

Edited by Lorentz

#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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11 hours ago, Lorentz said:

Many top CEOs and other top dogs don't have degrees, but they're a very small group compared to those that do, and they usually went to college for some time before dropping out anyway. That being said, the current CEO of Microsoft has three degrees, one of which is a Masters of Business Administration. 

Unless you think you're the next Gates, Jobs, or Zuckerberg, you should consider going to business school if you're planning on getting into business. That "bare minimum" you mentioned is probably vital to getting anywhere. 
 

The management courses I've taken suggest otherwise. And we're talking about universities that routinely pump out successful entrepreneurs, not high schools that treat students like inmates. 

The problem with schools for me is the current pricetag, I could afford it, but I'd be selling my next decade of work away to chance, moreso than I would without taking a school. Do you know of any low cost certifications or books on business that you would recommend?


Bazinga! I've been a Bionicle Fan since early 2015 and have been aware of it since 2008. Was a bit late to the party due to my age, but that doesn't matter now. Looking for krana and sealed G1 sets at below market value if possible, (otherwise it'll be a few years before I care to collect sets I don't care as much about) Bohrok Kal and Krana Kal Mask Pack sets are ones I am particularly looking for atm.

I go by Nektann or Marcato usually online.

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On 11/14/2021 at 10:40 PM, capMARVELOUS said:

actually, no.  i invite you not to reply here next week.  you've completely derailed the intent of this thread, which was to talk about why the very thing you're proposing doesn't need to happen in the first place.  formulate your "plan" if you still want to, but please take it somewhere other than here.

That's a sign of being unable to cope with people with differing perspectives than yours.

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On 11/16/2021 at 8:58 AM, Fyndegil said:

That's a sign of being unable to cope with people with differing perspectives than yours.

or he just doesn't want his thread getting too derailed idk

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Possibly, but cap said the purpose of the thread is to "to talk about why the very thing you're proposing doesn't need to happen in the first place," which implies that they only want people who agree with them posting.

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1 hour ago, Fyndegil said:

they only want people who agree with them posting.

Literally 1984!!!!

Derailing the topic or not, I think just leaving people be is best, it cannot hurt to try, there's many dreamers out there and the vast majority will at some point have their wings abruptly clipped but that doesn't stop many taking the sky everyday.

I do think the definition of "back" could be looked into, what does back entail, if we are talking "back on shelves" then yes it has gone. But if we are meaning Bionicle as a whole then no it hasn't gone as has been often stated, as long as fans talk about it and keep making content it won't be dead. 

I do think a one off tribute would be neat though, that's why I made an Ideas Project that I shamelessly plug at every opportunity :PB-) 

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1 hour ago, Axelford said:

Literally 1984!!!!

C'mon, I didn't mean it like that!

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:P I know, I was making light of those who use it as a buzzword for what they see as overly restrictive. I should have clarified in my post it was a joke.

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It's ok, I see


GENERATION 4: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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Literally nineteen eighty-four


#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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So is "literally 1984" actually a meme?


GENERATION 4: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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It is now


#makeBionicleG1andHeroFactorysharethesameuniverse and #giveBionicleansHeroFactorytheirownliveactioncinematicuniverse 

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I could absolutely imagine it being rebooted in some way, shape or form in, say, 10-20 years from now. Gen2 was way too early imo.

Would it be a Bionicle the way we knew it? No. Absolutely not. Gen2 somehow tried to appeal to new and old fans alike, and from what I've seen failed to do both. Personally I wasn't really a fan of the more humorous approach. Yet I do think the community takes itself waaay too seriously when it comes to canon and adherence to it sometimes.

A completely new Bionicle, which would just be part of the franchise in name and logo (and constraction toys), could work though. With a fresh slate for storytelling and worldbuilding, that does not require new fans to essentially obtain a bachelor's degree in Bionicle-ology. ^_^

 

None of this is saying that I want it back. But I could imagine something new, basically just "wearing the mask of" Bionicle (terrible pun fully intended) some ten years down the road.

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