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Lenny7092

Bionicle and Hero Factory United - Discussion

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Alright, guys. This is where you can discuss my new story in Lego Worlds Builder, whether you have a Lego World Builder account or not: https://worldbuilder.tongal.com/world/c16c1073-c5d6-4a05-90a3-4074c42fc50f

Before you read this chapter, you must understand stuff in the link above if you have a LWB account. I will update with chapters at a usually basis. If you have questions, I will try to answer. Have fun! :)


I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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I'm glad you posted this here, and I look forward to seeing where it all goes.

I won't dwell on the mechanics of writing for too long, because I know most of what's posted now was written as a proposal more than a story itself, which is fine. It would be a good idea to try to develop more of a sense of "show, don't tell." One specific example I noticed was this: "The Glatorian feel sad that Perditus betrayed them and their friends." That should be a really emotional moment. Remember how everyone reacted in TLR when they found out Metus was the traitor? This should have that same kind of energy. Knowing the fact that the Glatorian were sad doesn't really tell me a whole lot at all. Ackar's from the same village. Did he feel like he failed his friends by not realizing it before? Little moments like that are what make a story great.

You also tend to weave in a lot of Bionicle lore, which is cool for us longtime fans in small doses, but easter eggs like that lose their impact the more of them there are. Consider this one: "Tetrarmus, the Order of Mata Nui member with four arms and a multi-bladed axe that got killed by Voporak when he was getting the bottom half of the Mask of Time." It's an unnaturally and cumbersomely long statement, and it also happens to be literally everything canon about that character. That description has meaning to us as the audience, but it shouldn't to your omniscient third-person narrator. You don't need to wow anyone with your extensive knowledge of lore. If you had just written, "Tetrarmus, the four-armed Order of Mata Nui member," we'd all know who you're talking about.

I do like the name Tetrarmus, though. It's on-the-nose, sure, but it sounds like a Bionicle name. It gives the story more of its own identity than when you just reuse existing Bionicle words.

I wasn't expecting Velika to not be Velika. On one hand, kudos for throwing a plot twist my way that I was totally surprised by. But at the same time, it raises a ton of questions, like: why? "Velika" is already a false name the Great Being used when he planted himself into the MU. In what sense is he "pretending to be" Velika? In the official canon, there is, essentially, no character of Velika outside of the Great Being. I don't know if all you meant to imply was that Nynrah was Velika's real name or not, but that would be a more concise way of communicating it.

I'm not sure why you think your dialogue is especially bad. It's not. It has the same strengths and weaknesses as your descriptions.

I'm reserving judgment for now. I've only just started reading the first couple of chapters, and I am intrigued. I'll try to read up a little bit more and let you know my further thoughts. Keep on writing.

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"You are an absolute in these uncertain times. Your past is forgotten, and your
future is an empty book. You must find your own destiny, my brave adventurer.
"
-- Turaga Nokama

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I'm not going to touch on dialogue or writing technique here, I'll focus instead on the actual narrative. 

I agree with the earlier points raised about over-explaining/info-dumping lore, and the unnecessarily convoluted Velika reveal. I'm also not super fond of the way you've confusingly named your new Great Beings after Matoran Universe locations, and made up names for other characters without explanation. Eg. you refer to a "Repgole" and only explain much later that that's your new name for the Piraka Fusion/Golden Being.

Another minor quibble I have is that you don't seem to have decided how the power inhibitors work. You have Lewa disable some at a distance with elemental blasts, then in the same chapter a different group of characters roll up and find that their powers don't work at range. 

My biggest criticism, however, is probably that this story is trying to spin way too many plates. I think that was always going to be a problem, since your goal was to wrap up G1 and somehow tie it all together with HF, but awkwardly shoehorning a version of G2 in, plus including actual real life earth for some reason, also complicates things. You gloss over and hastily resolve long-standing rivalries in an effort to consolidate groups of characters together (Takadox rejoining the Barraki, the Skrall resolving their gender divide), and invent entire new characters to be the masterminds of unrelated events (eg. Zakaz), in ways that feel really rushed and convenient. Characters randomly travel huge intercontinental distances for no apparent reason and coincidentally show up just in time to save other folks who are in trouble. And despite having all of these unique and cool characters to play with, and you going out of your way to namedrop every character in canon at least once (plus new ones of your own) no individuals really get a chance to shine. Fight scenes boil down to "the groups fight, and the baddies scatter or get captured", despite most villains in all of the themes being more powerful and numerous than the heroes. The scope of the story is so huge and it jumps around (and back-and-forth) so much that it took you something like four chapters just to resolve the cliffhanger from part one. 

You've got the bare bones of a narrative here, but it's missing emotion. The story rockets forward at this ratcheted breakneck pace without being given the opportunity to breathe. No one seems to get injured or tired or killed, so the stakes don't feel meaningful. Most of these characters should be exhausted from fighting a war, and reeling from the massive, world-changing revelations and changes that have occurred around them, in awe from meeting their literal gods, struggling to understand their place in this new universe, and you're not taking the time to explore any of that. 

Edited by Nato The Whisperer
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BZPRPG Mercenary Organisation - Description - History - Base

BZPRPG Characters - Minnorak, Kain, T'harrak, Savis, Vazaria

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Hi, guys. I see your stuff. I get it, but I’m working on it. I got a bunch of chapters to work with. I got some ideas from Transformers: Prime and Marvel Cinematic Universe in terms of how the story would go. I’m trying to learn from some stories in Lego World Builder to try to get the idea. Character development is not easy. I get it. Anyway, about stuff like “Takadox rejoining the Barraki”. Well, I like to restore some stuff for nostalgia. My story is supposed to make you feel like that you are remembered Bionicle’s and Hero Factory’s histories in a good and nostalgic way. I mean, it’s like fans making projects based on Bionicle 2001 because they nostalgically love that year for how the story went. Every year in the histories is different in some ways, but it’s nice to use stuff from the past in make something new and good. It’s not like Spider-Man: No Way Home in this year (because it used villains from two movies series rather than making MCU variants of the characters. That’s not original), but it is like Samurai Jack’s Season 5 (looks back at Season 1-4) and Hey Arnold: The Jungle Movie (looks back at the show itself). 

Anyway, I made a new chapter today. This one will get emotional. I still don’t forget Lesovikk feeling sad about his problem about the death of his friends. He is also scared that someone would turn him over if they think he killed Karzahni. I would say that Vezon’s group in Bota Magna would be afraid of the cursed Great Being (Destral). Vezon would joke to cope with that. He would say something like “Well, it’s personal space”. As for Orde, he would be happy to see more male Toa of Psionics (that’s in Chapter 11: The Great Beings). As for Kopaka and Pohatu, they would be enlighten Lhikan that they know the Toa Metru very well. I will edit all of this soon if you guys believe so. In The Powers That Be and The Yesterday Quest, Greg Farshtey always jumped from one place to another. I don’t like leaving some stuff hanging here and there. 

Well, about Velika, I look at that guy as another Makuta Teridax. I name the Great Beings after the locations in the Matoran Universe because I wonder where did those names come from. We exactly don’t know if there is a real Matoran named Velika, but I would like to put that there as redemption since there is a Great Being pretending to be him. It’s like Teridax impersonating Dume and Freaky Friday. It’s parallels. Also, the Voya Nui Resistance Team may be worrying about their friend, and I would like to fill in the void. Besides, I am not using every character. I’m only using significant ones that are alive and revived. Nice to have Easter eggs, too. 

Oh, and Tetrarmus comes from the word “tetra”, which is “four” in Greek, “arm”, and I made it Bionicle-y. Repgole comes from the words “reptile” and “golden”, which is how the golden-skinned fusion is described. It’s like Mutran, where his name comes from “mutate” and “transform”. It’s not easy coming up with names, you know. I believe you would need a canonization contest to do that. 

I’m also using facts that Greg Farshtey answered in 2012-present. Plus, there are a lot of underutilized stuff in the story, so I am giving some of them redemption.

I also got some ideas from this guy’s BZPower story. It’s a pity that this guy never finished his story. He has the right in some ways, though: 

 

 

Edited by Lenny7092
Forgot something.

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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I have a major complaint/question about the portrayal of a few characters near the end of Part 14. 

Why would Miserix and Helryx slink off with Vezon of all people to start plotting to take over Spherus Magna? Miserix was the good Makuta who actually kept the Brotherhood on-task, and Helryx was the first Toa ever made, and has been enforcing Mata Nui's will since the dawn of the Matoran Universe. There's nothing in this chapter or the preceding story that really justifies them backflipping on a few thousands years of established characterisation like this. 


LkqTlCk.jpg

BZPRPG Mercenary Organisation - Description - History - Base

BZPRPG Characters - Minnorak, Kain, T'harrak, Savis, Vazaria

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On 12/27/2021 at 6:13 AM, Nato The Whisperer said:

I have a major complaint/question about the portrayal of a few characters near the end of Part 14. 

Why would Miserix and Helryx slink off with Vezon of all people to start plotting to take over Spherus Magna? Miserix was the good Makuta who actually kept the Brotherhood on-task, and Helryx was the first Toa ever made, and has been enforcing Mata Nui's will since the dawn of the Matoran Universe. There's nothing in this chapter or the preceding story that really justifies them backflipping on a few thousands years of established characterisation like this. 

Um… It’s Tuyet, Miserix, and Vezon being an evil trio. These guys are evil loners who have no idea what to do with Spherus Magna yet, so they decide to work together and think about a plan together. Miserix was a good Makuta before Teridax took over the Brotherhood. Teridax imprisoned Miserix on an island with Klakk that hurt him. That made Miserix banish his inner light, or goodness, so he turned evil because he wants to destroy Makuta without any hesitation. When he was freed, he wants to get revenge on Teridax. He was consumed by rage. He frightened a Steltian trader, and even fought three good people, including Brutaka and Tren Krom, who were standing in his way when Teridax took control of the Great Spirit. If Miserix becomes aware that Teridax is dead, what do you think he would do since the Brotherhood is destroyed? He would find a way to make his own group, and he is already corrupt. I think he would be purposeless unless he has something good from Spherus Magna. That’s why I have him join Nynrah/Fake Velika. Vezon sometimes acts like that he would like to be with other people. He doesn’t know anything about Spherus Magna, so it is good to have company, anyway. As for Tuyet, we’ll, since the Matoran Universe is out of commission, she probably has no idea what to do with Spherus Magna because she doesn’t know anything about it unless there is something good out of it that can allow her to have domain. It’s also why she would want to work for Nynrah, because she could make something good out of it. 

As for Helryx, well, she is obviously a good Toa, a good counterpart to Tuyet. She is still doing her job as the Order of Mata Nui’s leader. None of the members met Mata Nui in person, as they only worship him and do him favors, so yes. She is dedicated to Mata Nui, ans she would be happy to see him in person. Of course, Mata Nui would scold her and her organization for killing their enemies. This could make them regret their actions, so they would have to make up for the actions. Mata Nui would remind Helryx that she is a Toa, and Toa have to follow the Toa Code, so Helryx would agree. It’s all about loyalty. 

What do you think I should do with the four characters (or at least Helryx and Miserix), anyway? 
 

Anyway, I posted three more chapters recently (since you mentioned chapter 14, right?). You, there, read the new chapters to see what you think about those characters’ roles there, too.

Anyway, I am thinking about putting references to let you guys know where I got the ideas. :)

Edited by Lenny7092
Forgot something and edited something.

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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On 12/31/2021 at 8:26 AM, Lenny7092 said:

Um… It’s Tuyet, Miserix, and Vezon being an evil trio.

You really had me doubting my sanity here until I realised you'd actually edited the chapter to change Helryx to Tuyet. I guess that makes more sense. 

On 12/31/2021 at 8:26 AM, Lenny7092 said:

What do you think I should do with the four characters (or at least Helryx and Miserix), anyway? 

There are so many things you could do with these characters. They're on a new world, quite literally meeting their makers. That's such a rich opportunity for character development. 

But, that said, it seems pretty clear at this point that the story's focus is on consolidating all of the good guys on one side, and all of the villains on the other, for some kind of climactic final showdown. Which is fine, in principle. It's just a shame that it's happening at the expense of taking away the agency and development from many of these characters, rather than continuing their unfinished arcs or even taking them in new directions. 


LkqTlCk.jpg

BZPRPG Mercenary Organisation - Description - History - Base

BZPRPG Characters - Minnorak, Kain, T'harrak, Savis, Vazaria

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nato The Whisperer said:

You really had me doubting my sanity here until I realised you'd actually edited the chapter to change Helryx to Tuyet. I guess that makes more sense. 

There are so many things you could do with these characters. They're on a new world, quite literally meeting their makers. That's such a rich opportunity for character development. 

But, that said, it seems pretty clear at this point that the story's focus is on consolidating all of the good guys on one side, and all of the villains on the other, for some kind of climactic final showdown. Which is fine, in principle. It's just a shame that it's happening at the expense of taking away the agency and development from many of these characters, rather than continuing their unfinished arcs or even taking them in new directions. 

Well, Vezon is a jokester. Tuyet believes that Toa should rule over the Matoran Universe people. However, she sees people working with Spherus Magna people, so she wouldn’t stand a chance. She is still plotting, yet. Plus, in the beginning of Chapter 14, she sees sees Lhikan and that Ga-Matoran that she drowned, so she avoids being seen by them when she was in the crowd.

Miserix, well, he’s a tough one. Well, you see, of course Miserix was the original leader of the Brotherhood of Makuta, as he kept things in order for Mata Nui. When Makuta Teridax announced his plan to take over the Matoran Universe, Miserix did not like the idea because he looked at it as worthless. Both fought each other, but Teridax had the most of the Brotherhood chose him over Miserix. Teridax overthrew him, become the new leader of the Brotherhood, and he wanted to kill Miserix, but Krika and Spirah secretly imprisoned Miserix to the island of Artidax. Miserix was tortured with magical chains and Klakk. He was betrayed by the Brotherhood, and he was so angry at Teridax that he banished his inner light, which is his inner goodness, so he wouldn’t have anything to stand in his way. He gained a lot of strength when he was on the island. When a team of people freed Miserix, he used the Shadow Hand to absorb Makuta Spiriah in revenge for imprisoning him on the island. When Miserix was freed, he went to find Teridax. The Order of Mata Nui needed hint of fight Teridax. He harassed a couple of people to find out where Teridax is and killed one of them. When he found Teridax in the Core Processor, he tried to have revenge in Teridax, but Teridax was hard to defeat, stopped him by putting him in an illusion when Teridax was controlling the Great Spirit Robot. When Miserix was freed by Tren Krom, he still wants revenge. He fought three people to get to destroy Teridax, and he did not care about the safety of the Matoran Universe’s people. He was blinded by rage and was insane a little bit. He was calm when Artakha arrived, was flung into outer space, sent to Bota Magna, and talking to many others about what to do with the cursed Great Being (I call him Destral). Miserix does not anything about Bota Magna, Teridax’s death, or what happened with the Matoran Universe when Miserix went to Bota Magna. He, Tuyet, and Vezon didn’t participate in Bionicle’s 2010 story arc, where the battle between Mata Nui’s SM Teridax happened. They are on Bota Magna the whole time. 

In my story, the trio are kind enough to just play along with the good guys while they get more information. If Miserix knows that Teridax is killed by Mata Nui, the whole Brotherhood of Makuta being destroyed, and what happened with the Matoran Universe, well, that part is tough. What do you think he would do? However, since Miserix banished his inner light, he would feel kind of purposeless, and he would think that other people would overthrow him if he tries to rule something, so he would want to find something worthy in Spherus Magna and crush the people. He’s a bit different from Krika. Krika is about thinking for the sake of his brethren consciously. Miserix is a being filled with rage. Plus, Miserix is not too social with good people. He, Tuyet, and Vezon would go on their own and think about what their evil plan would be after this. 
 

As for Helryx, well, she’s always a good person. She had quite a temper when it comes to war. She also did not go by the Toa Code. She let her organization kill people who knew the location of the island of Artakha and kill some members of the Brotherhood of Makuta. She also tried to destroy the Matoran Universe by doing her Nova Blast in the Core Processor, but was interrupted by some people. True, she did these bad things, but she did them for the good of people in the Matoran Universe. She is just rough, but she knows that she is a Toa. If she would see Mata Nui physically, she would be happy and would do what he wants. Mata Nui would scold her and her organization for the rough actions, and I believe the Order of Mata Nui would be sort of disappointed to hear that. Since they do things for the will of Mata Nui, Mata Nui respects that, and he wants them to do things the softer way because Mata Nui thinks like a Toa who goes by the Toa Code. The Order would understand and listen to Mata Nui. They would regret their rough actions, but when a huge battle happens, they would do what Mata Nui says to make up for their rough actions. 
 

If you read the recent three chapters, you will see. I will figure something out for these characters.

Edited by Lenny7092
Forget some things.

I like Lego, Bionicle, and Hero Factory!:)

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