Doctor Who. Official!

[Visaru]

Soo...The discovery happened off screen, during the time skip? That's what I thought. I think that is a bit cheap, but whatever. The Silence/Silents are cool.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Hey, I've always wondered something that really annoyed me about the openeing of season 6.How in the world did The Doctor and co. find out about the Silence?Also, I'll say that I did not like Steven Moffat's Doctor Who as much as Davies' Doctor Who. Although Moffat does a lot of cool stuff exploring the nature of Time Travel and all the wierd thigns that happen with it (River Song's storyline comes to mind) I enjoyed Davie's subtle story arcs with well made, interesting and cool larger episodes. When Moffat attempted those more epic storyies, they came off as less cool and more confusing and weird. I didn't like the conclusion of season four very much, or the half way finale of six. My favorite episodes from the Moffat era were written by other writers.That said, Moffat is a very good writer, and his episodes aren't actually that terrible. I just wish they more like Davies' finales.

There's a split: Some people like Moffat upping the ante in making viewers think through a whole story arc, while others prefer the simplicity of Davies' finales.I definitely love the full-season story-arcs. I need something to keep me hooked.-CF

[Jean Valjean]

My preference: full-season story arcs. I like something bigger that seams ongoing. The episodic nature of the first four seasons had their time and their place, but I like that they moved on toward chapters.

Also, I'll say that I did not like Steven Moffat's Doctor Who as much as Davies' Doctor Who. Although Moffat does a lot of cool stuff exploring the nature of Time Travel and all the wierd thigns that happen with it (River Song's storyline comes to mind) I enjoyed Davie's subtle story arcs with well made, interesting and cool larger episodes.

What's well-made and cool is subjective. I personally agree that the larger episodes were well-made and cool, but I really disagree with you about the "subtle story arcs". Davies basically just hung a Chekov's Gun on the wall every other episode. They had nothing to do with the episodes they were in, and they were basically blatant advertisements that said "yes, we have a plan for a season finale". When the season finale came, it was basically "See? We told you we'd have a season finale". Even if they were subtle, such as the Face of Bo whispering "You are not alone", they were still merely Chekov's Guns, and those were the only things tying the season's overall plot together.So yeah, think that RTD used a lot more Deus ex Machina than Moffat. Moffat did, too, but that's just Doctor Who for you, just as BenLuke said. Of course, much of this boils down to taste, and it just so happens that everything about seasons 5&6 from the characters to the TARDIS to the form of storytelling makes it precisely what I find ideal in television, to the point where it's the type of adventure that I would write.Merida

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

I do prefer the extended story arcs of Moffat I just wish he'd actually focus on what he wants them do be. First the Silence is a thing that will happen, then its an alien species, who are actually a religious organisation, and the real danger is the Question, and who the heck was the voice and how did it get into the TARDIS? I know its hinted that its Omega (being a Time Lord would let him send a signal into one, plus those churchy types have an omega as their sigil) but we could do with a bit more on that and a perhaps a bit less of River Song who I think is similarly unfocused

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[Visaru]

Sort of in response to Merida's post:Of course what's well-made and cool is subjective! I wasn't trying to pass of my views of this stuff as fact! I was just giving my take on the whole thing. :)By subtle story arcs, I meant that the viewers (Maybe I'm just oblivious, I don't know) don't know what the season finale is about, but when it came about, it was cool to think 'Oh, yeah! I remember that!" (In seasons one and two the reoccurring word gave you a big clue, and it was a nice mystery to tie it together without being too obvious) In Moffat's storylines, the reoccurring item sort of say 'Hey! Here's what this season finale is about!" really obviously. The cracks in time or the doctor's death, both well established in the first episode of both seasons. It boils down to taste, and I'm one of those weird traditionalists who miss some of Davies' plot set ups.Because with Davies' stories, they weren't really about the reality bomb or the invasion of Daleks or the end of the world or whatever, making his Deux Es Machinas more acceptable to me. They were about what these events did to the characters- Rose's 'death', Martha's strength in the face of danger, or Donna's sad send off, to name a few examples. To be honest, the same thing was an issue in Moffat's two finales, but they both, The Big Bang especially, for me, were a little lacking in a feeling of danger/grandeur. or general cohesiveness. And the Deus Ex Machina endings to those seemed a little more important to me. I'm not a critic, I can't really say why.I just didn't think they were that great watching them the first time. A little... weird at times, I suppose. He sometimes went a little over the top with the Timey Wimey aspect of Doctor Who.I also greatly dislike the fact that Rory died about four-ish times, The Doctor at least two (maybe more) and Amy once. Moffat has a compulsive desire to kill of central characters, and it cheapens the event when, say, the doctor dies in two consecutive episodes.The other thing I kind of dislike is the eleventh doctor totally forgetting about the huge cast of characters and former companions introduced in the last few seasons. Maybe it's just because the producers want every doctor to be almost a different person, or that Moffat sort of saw it as a reboot of the whole style and didn't want to go back much to the first four seasons. I sort of miss the reoccurring roles of the old friends.*takes breath*. Whoo. Okay, actually, I don't hate Moffat that much. As much as I loved Tennant, his doctor was getting stale and a fresh take on the show was a relief. It was probably an excellent idea for the producer too, since my view is, from what I've seen, a minority.We got a lot of new cool stuff- a new sonic screwdriver and TARDIS interior, more complex time-paradox plots, more River Song, and bowties. Wow. I guess I really needed to rant there.

[Jean Valjean]

See, I really liked the Timey-Wimy stuff, but that's primarily because that's the type of nerd I am and I love to have fun with the abstract ideas in science fiction. I figured it was about time, the previous versions were surprisingly lacking in that aspect for a series about a Lord of Time. Before I watched the series, I sort of imagined that it was more like Moffat's version.Anyway, I don't think you're quite a minority, or at least the minority isn't that insignificant. I've heard plenty of people who agree with you and love David Tennant the most. I guess to me he was just "the foxy incarnation of the Doctor" and little more, but the charisma goes a long way in justifying his popularity.You know, I feel like just listing everything I've liked about Season 5 and counting:

• The method of storytelling that Moffat employs follows the style of a fairy tale, and as I've studied storytelling more and more, I've come to discover that this is a very desirable setup. Amy's personal story starts from her childhood, whereby she is linked to the Doctor by destiny. The initial scene where the camera wanders through the garden and then pans up on her lonely house immediately evokes this sense and shows without any exposition whatsoever what we need to know about Amy and what type of journey she is about to embark on. It's a very personal story of a child who is enamored by a long lost friend from a fleeting moment in life who has since become imaginary, a feeling I know well. This imaginary friend returns and flips her world upside down with impossible wonders, such as floating in outer space. More than that, he embodies everything someone can expect from an imaginary friend, giving her the attention she always wished for and understanding her like nobody else. He's larger than life yet fine tuned for life's smaller things. He's someone she can completely trust. Her journey may not be as spectacularly sad as those of past companions, but of the bunch her story earns its place as the "sad story" because of how it hits close to home when the connection is pulled out from underneath her.
• The apple. Again, this is because of the fairy tale imagery inherent in its use. Of course, it is utilized as a storytelling device by which the Doctor shows he is the person Amy has emotionally attached herself to.
• The Little Amy/The Apple is also has a very nice musical theme. I've said before that Amy is more deserving of the sad motifs than previous companions, such as this musical score, which is sadder than others past. I meant it. Somehow this seemed very fitting.
• The Doctor himself takes on a version that seems like he came out of a contemporary fairy tale. He's very much made out to be a figure of wonder instead of charisma. His surreal figure is also instantly recognizable and easier to emulate. He also seems like the type of person who will save children from their nightmares (which he did in fact do). He just seems to be a figure of dreams.
• The Doctor's determination to keep Amy and Rory together is awesome.
• Bowties are cool. I am proud to say that I was into them before the eleventh Doctor.
• I am also proud to say that I had very similar hair to the eleventh Doctor before he came along (though I have a more 50's feel, and it's actually more comparable to George McFly's).
• I'm similar to him in other ways, too. No need to list them all.
• Considering that he's so nerdy and boyish, it was really awesome to see that put into use with more Timey-Wimey science fantasy. Interdimensional physics it the epitome of fun.
• The music is great. I know, it was great in the first four seasons, but I enjoyed it even more this time around.
• The Doctor going Batman.
• The new TARDIS. I lever liked the old design, but this new one...Everything about it is a fairy tale.
• The new sonic screwdriver. For some reason, it reminds me of Qui-Gon Jinn's lightsaber. That, and it just looks cool in and of itself.
• Okay, okay, I'll admit it. Amy's the most attractive character by far.
• Season-long plots instead of season finales. It's a bit more like another show I really enjoy, Smallville.
• Less Daleks, more fixing problems in time itself. It's the type of story I'd be more likely to concoct.
• More Weeping Angels.
• America was treated as a respectable setting, and for once there were some good American characters. I know it's a British show and I understand any Anglocentrism coming from it, but it still makes a difference when they make appeals to my demographic.
• The stetson. Stetsons are cool.
• I liked how, in spite of his boyishness, the Doctor's age was made believable. Part of it was the self-loathing, with which I completely and utterly connected, as well as the weariness, self-doubt, regret, and the way that he recognized his own selfishness. it didn't drag down his character, but it was done just enough that it reminded me of precisely how I feel about myself from time to time.

I'm sure there's other stuff that stands out to me as improvements, but I think I included the most important things in this post.Merida

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

Aren't all those questions things that will eventually be answered anyway? I think they are. If they get ignored then it'll suck, but I'm pretty sure they'll be answered later on.- Tilius

Probably. But it seems like Moffat forgets that they should, at some point, be answered and is happy to just stick River Song in a new outfit for a while. Its like LOST, we just seem to be getting more and more questions

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Well, you do get the feeling, though, that unlike J.J. Abrams, Moffat does have answers to those questions and does intend to eventual answer them, instead of just stringing the viewers along until the show sinks.

[BenLuke]

Besides, Moffot's only been working on the show for two seasons.Bit early to start complaining about unanswered questions, I would think.

[Tilius]

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

[Visaru]

Yeah, but sadly it last 'till 2013, so its gonna be a long time before it comes out of Netflix.Which is basically the only way I watch TV shows.

[Jean Valjean]

I'm going to try to actually watch Season 7 as the episodes come out. It's been a long time since I've followed a show in real time.The questions I'm still wondering...I think I mentioned them somewhere in this topic, though a quick search isn't yielding anything. Basically, I'd like to know who controlled the TARDIS in the 5th season, why Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, and...There was one other major question I had, but I can't remember it. Maybe it was "Doctor Who?"I just remembered the other major reason why I liked the new spin on the series. I don't know how I could forget this, but a major theme is that in spite of his incredible life achievements and positive influence on others' lives, he harbors a profound sadness. One of his musical themes was called "Sad Man With A Box". For me, this brought the character to life in ways that has only happened with a few fictional characters. It's something hard to explain, and I know that it's a very simple storytelling element, but the archetype it hits runs deep and it sticks with me.Merida

[Wotz]

The questions I'm still wondering...I think I mentioned them somewhere in this topic, though a quick search isn't yielding anything. Basically, I'd like to know who controlled the TARDIS in the 5th season, why Amy doesn't remember the Daleks, and...There was one other major question I had, but I can't remember it. Maybe it was "Doctor Who?"Merida

Who controlled the TARDIS has yet to be seen, though it evidently had something to do with this whole 'Silence Will Fall' bonanza. Amy didn't remember the Daleks because the cracks in time were eating away at events throughout history, therefore basically messing up the timestream by creating a ton of paradoxes and stuff. There's a mini episode out there explaining how after the Doctor rebooted the universe, time is now more in flux than it used to be, and he demonstrates it by having Amy give her younger self a replacement ice cream at the fair. What the Doctor's name is, I don't want to know, and I hope Moffat doesn't reveal it, because it would ruin it for me really (I'd keep watching of course, but i wouldn't be the same ).

[Jean Valjean]

It was never explicitely explained, though, so I figured that it was tied to something else. Besides, since Amy was a time-traveller I figured she'd remember. Have those events returned to normal now that the Doctor rebooted the universe?Merida Edited July 17, 2012 by Merida

[Wotz]

No one's entirely sure really. I would assume that with the Doctor's return, all his adventures were restored as well. It's a confusing subject, so I just assume everything is the same as it was unless specifically stated otherwise. The Doctor definitely had his past regenerations because his Flesh clone was struggling to deal with them, so it's safe to assume it all happened as far as I'm concerned.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

The only things that maybe-didn't-happen were the events of Series 5, as they were kind of off to the side of the main timeline, and were directly affected by the damage to the universe. No doubt the events happened in some way, but not exactly as they were shown - just some quiet editing done by the universe to get some internal consistency while achieving the same basic final results.

[ChocolateFrogs]

The other thing I kind of dislike is the eleventh doctor totally forgetting about the huge cast of characters and former companions introduced in the last few seasons. Maybe it's just because the producers want every doctor to be almost a different person, or that Moffat sort of saw it as a reboot of the whole style and didn't want to go back much to the first four seasons. I sort of miss the reoccurring roles of the old friends.

They make reference to their history. Some examples, mostly from the first four New-Who seasons:

• In "Let's Kill Hitler," we see holograms of Rose, Martha, and Donna.
• At some point The Doctor mentions that he could visit "all of Jack's stag parties in one night" (sic).
• River keeps returning (first seen in series 4). Also her death and the night soon before it (mentioned in series 4) is referenced by two Eleventh Doctors conversing. (And on that note, fulfilling certain things River said in series 4, like the crash of the Byzantium.)
• In the short story between episodes 5 and 6 of Series 5, Amy pulls up TARDIS footage of all previous inhabitants, and in particular mentions "is that a leather bikini?" (sic), referring to Leela. (Also Donna can be seen on the TARDIS screen.)
• In "The Lodger," after bonking heads and sharing info with Craig, The Doctor says "Yes, eleventh" referring to his incarnation.
• That being said, showing every incarnation in "The Eleventh Hour."
• Meeting up with Jo and Sarah Jane in "Death of the Doctor" in SJA.

Series 7 starts next month. That seems to have come round incredibly quickly.- Tilius

Wait, is that official? I haven't seen any official reports on a release date, and I thought I followed some reliable blogs that would enthusiastically announce it ASAP.-CF

[Jean Valjean]

Also, when the Doctor showed the vampires of Venice his card, they saw a picture of his first incarnation.Merida

[Kumata]

So. Anyone excited for episode 1 of the upcoming series? It's called "Asylum of the Daleks" and will feature

every variation of Dalek that has ever been seen in Doctor Who, allegedly.

Give that the 50th anniversary is coming up I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the new season was devoted to reminiscing/referencing Doctor Who's long and convoluted history. Moreso than it usually does, I mean.

[Protodite Karzahni]

One of the things I've found the most shaky about Moffat's run so far is how River ended up as a Time Lord. I seriously don't believe that two ordinary humans can give birth to a Time Lady by procreating whilst in the time vortex. If that's the case, the Doctor would be bundling honeymooning couples into the TARDIS by the dozen in an effort to not be lonely anymore. I like to consider it extra evidence that Rory could be the Master. Please, please, please, please, please.But just to balance things out, I definitely prefer Moffat to RTD. I've always felt that Davies writes fanfiction rather than actual episodes, just based off of the way that every season finale seemed to end with either a massive deus ex machina, or the Doctor turning into some manner of deity. And the problem I had with Tennant was that his Doctor was just too human. His relationship with Rose just reminded me of a bad soap opera (Which is all of them, let's be honest) and I just keep shouting at the screen that the Doctor has no reason to fall in love with Rose, at all. With all the companions he's had in his life, it just seems ridiculous that he'd fall in love now.

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Rose was fairly obnoxious to me, honestly. My favorite companion from the Tennant era was Wilfred Mott, followed by Donna Noble. Mickey Smith was alright when he shifted from being the slapstick moron to an actual, useful character.

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

One of the things I've found the most shaky about Moffat's run so far is how River ended up as a Time Lord. I seriously don't believe that two ordinary humans can give birth to a Time Lady by procreating whilst in the time vortex.

Isn't it the case that she's not a proper Time Lady, she just has a few traits of one since exposure to a time vortex is how the Time Lords perfected their own genetics? I mean, thats not how genetics work, but wibbley-wobbley spacey-wacey and all that

[Visaru]

The other thing I kind of dislike is the eleventh doctor totally forgetting about the huge cast of characters and former companions introduced in the last few seasons. Maybe it's just because the producers want every doctor to be almost a different person, or that Moffat sort of saw it as a reboot of the whole style and didn't want to go back much to the first four seasons. I sort of miss the reoccurring roles of the old friends.

They make reference to their history. Some examples, mostly from the first four New-Who seasons:

• In "Let's Kill Hitler," we see holograms of Rose, Martha, and Donna.
• At some point The Doctor mentions that he could visit "all of Jack's stag parties in one night" (sic).
• River keeps returning (first seen in series 4). Also her death and the night soon before it (mentioned in series 4) is referenced by two Eleventh Doctors conversing. (And on that note, fulfilling certain things River said in series 4, like the crash of the Byzantium.)
• In the short story between episodes 5 and 6 of Series 5, Amy pulls up TARDIS footage of all previous inhabitants, and in particular mentions "is that a leather bikini?" (sic), referring to Leela. (Also Donna can be seen on the TARDIS screen.)
• In "The Lodger," after bonking heads and sharing info with Craig, The Doctor says "Yes, eleventh" referring to his incarnation.
• That being said, showing every incarnation in "The Eleventh Hour." (Except David Tenannt, strangely enough)
• Meeting up with Jo and Sarah Jane in "Death of the Doctor" in SJA

-CF

There's actually a few other mentions of the Doctor's previous incarnations, but that's not what I dislike.Okay. he didn't totally forget about his companions. He just barely ever mentions them. It frustrates me that for the past few seasons previous companions were often guest starred or mentioned. Those are the only references to previous characters.I'm excluding River from this, but I really consider her Moffat's character. She only popped up in one of Davie's episodes, and Moffat showed a younger, wilder version of her. It's not this sort of thing I dislike- I just wish the doctor's mentions of older companion weren't put in the script as little easter eggs for people who watched Doctor Who longer. The stories with Tennant had the doctor's older companions have meaning.Now, this might not Moffat's fault at all. The producers just seem to try and ignore the previous Doctor's story. I suppose you could pull out another huge list with all the different times they reference previous incarnations, and I know they do that but... I dunno. For some reason, the eleventh doctor seems to have a very different cast that the previous one, and I miss the old people sometimes.

And the problem I had with Tennant was that his Doctor was just too human. His relationship with Rose just reminded me of a bad soap opera (Which is all of them, let's be honest) and I just keep shouting at the screen that the Doctor has no reason to fall in love with Rose, at all. With all the companions he's had in his life, it just seems ridiculous that he'd fall in love now.

I never knew why he liked Rose so much either. That was a bit of a flaw from the beginning. But I liked Tennant more because his doctor was serious and dark and dramatic far more than the Smith's doctor, who is a bit of a child and takes almost everything as a bit of a joke.

[Jean Valjean]

I think the writers wanted to be a little more fresh, if you know what I mean. Since the 5th season onward was going to have such a different feel, they might as well give it a feeling as if they were starting the character off anew and introducing the audience to him for the first time, which in a way they were.And yeah, Rose was my least favorite companion purely because I saw no reason for the Doctor to fall in love with her. The whole relationship seemed a bit contrived to me. At least with River Song the relationship started not because of intimate feelings but because the relationship just kind of worked.I don't know aboutDavid being more dark and dramatic, though. Matt Smith was also quite dark and dramatic at times, just in a different way. Take, for example, his internal struggles with himself. It was all there, just hidden under the surface, which I found quite realistic. And I don't know, maybe this is because I'm quite a bit like him, but his darkness seemed much more personal and organic rather than just a written personality trait.Merida

[Wotz]

But I liked Tennant more because his doctor was serious and dark and dramatic far more than the Smith's doctor, who is a bit of a child and takes almost everything as a bit of a joke.

That's exactly why I like Smith so much! He reminds me of me, sort of, a bit

[The Swimming Beard]

According to Wikipedia, the first four episodes of Series 7 are:

Asylum of the Daleks, which has already been mentioned.Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, which features a spaceship containing dinosaurs (obviously).A Town Called Mercy, which takes place in the wild westCubed

Edited July 19, 2012 by Toa of Smooth Jazz

[Wotz]

Not sure about 'Cubed' but all these episodes have been confirmed on the official Doctor Who website

[ChocolateFrogs]

But I liked Tennant more because his doctor was serious and dark and dramatic far more than the Smith's doctor, who is a bit of a child and takes almost everything as a bit of a joke.

That's exactly why I like Smith so much! He reminds me of me, sort of, a bit

Here's a quote from online:"Eccleston was a tiger and Tennant was, well, Tigger. Smith [is] an uncoordinated housecat who pretends that he meant to do that after falling off a piece of furniture.” - Lynne M. ThomasNo idea its original source or who Thomas is.Also I'm glad those episode titles are in spoiler tags. I try to stay away from spoilers (though am sure the episode titles will be leaked to me at some point).-CF

[Jean Valjean]

Alright, I just want to comment on the last couple of titles:

Dinosaurs on a SpaceshipIt's subtle, but I'm pretty sure this is a reference to Snakes on a Plane. And it comes off hilariously.CubedCubes are nice and I really like them. This makes me think of the cult classic film The Cube, which from what I've read sounds very interesting. I hope this turns into a mind-warp episode with impossible geometries and timey-whimey stuff. What would be especially nice would be a reference to n-dimensional space.Even nicer would be if the film was a tesseract. But still, that's merely "nice". In Doctor Who terms, it's still not amped up enough to earn the ultimate compliment, but I know what is.Once you get up to five dimensions, though, then you have achieved "cool". Penteracts are cool.

Merida

[BenLuke]

I just realized something.Q from Star Trek: TNG is basically an evil version of the Doctor.

[Danska: Shadow Master]

The Doctor is a benevelent alien who can travel through time/space and has a knack for getting both into and out of trouble. Q is a mischievous omnipotent superbeing from another dimension who likes to mess with people because it's fun. I don't see the connection.

[Wotz]

Q is not the Valeyard I'm afraid.

[BenLuke]

The Doctor is a benevelent alien who can travel through time/space and has a knack for getting both into and out of trouble. Q is a mischievous omnipotent superbeing from another dimension who likes to mess with people because it's fun. I don't see the connection.

They're both ultra-powerful tricksterish aliens that are rogue members of a otherwise stagnant species, that does't sound similar at all. Edited July 23, 2012 by BenLuke-116

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

Q is more of a science-fiction version of the original concept of Loki - i.e, the Norse god of trickery before certain changes were made to the mythology (those changes unfortunately coinciding with the first written forms of the myths). He is neither good nor evil, but just messes with people for his own amusement.The Doctor doesn't mess with people for his own amusement. He usually has a bigger reason for it - like saving the universe, or saving a species from slavery, or something else along those lines. He's less about arbitrary games and more about preventing pointless destruction.

[BenLuke]

^ Well, yes, that's the difference. I was mostly saying that they have a couple details that are amusingly similar, not that their personalities are very similar beyond "childish alien who travels the universe for the lolz".

[HeavyMetalSunshineSister]

I just realized something.Q from Star Trek: TNG is basically an evil version of the Doctor.

It sounds like you were saying, one, that Q is evil (he isn't) and two, that they're incredibly similar, the main difference being that Q is, as you suggested, evil (which he still isn't).

[BenLuke]

I suppose I should have said antagonistic or non-heroic, not evil, as either of those would probably describe Q better.

[cybertoa]

Greg Farshtey would make an awesome writer for this show anyone agree?

[Pomegranate]

Yes, Greg would make a great writer for the show, since he loves the show himself and knows how to do it justice :)ChocolateFrogs, I love your sig! Have you actually been keeping up with Assimilation²?