1707 replies to this topic

[Harvali]

I have a lot of negative emotions directed towards closing time. Really, the day is saved by the Power of Heart? It's not cliche, it's just sad. I was hoping that Craig would stay converted and though the Cybermen would be destroyed, it would further convince the Doctor that he only brings pain to his companions.

[Alyska]

I have a lot of negative emotions directed towards closing time. Really, the day is saved by the Power of Heart? It's not cliche, it's just sad. I was hoping that Craig would stay converted and though the Cybermen would be destroyed, it would further convince the Doctor that he only brings pain to his companions.

I think it was meant to be a fairly lighthearted episode before the final. I actually quite liked it, regardless of how illogical it was. It's Doctor Who! A lot of stuff happens just because some character wished hard enough, so, by this show's standards, it wasn't too much of a stretch that a baby crying could stop a Cyberman-conversion. I do think the other Cybermen being destroyed by it, however, is taking it a little bit beyond my suspension of disbelief. Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

I have a lot of negative emotions directed towards closing time. Really, the day is saved by the Power of Heart? It's not cliche, it's just sad. I was hoping that Craig would stay converted and though the Cybermen would be destroyed, it would further convince the Doctor that he only brings pain to his companions.

No, that wouldn't have made sense in Closing Time. The episode was supposed to be therapeutic and cathartic, something to ease the Doctor into willingly going to his death

[Harvali]

I can see it as light hearted, Stormaggedon was definitely played for humor. But I still doubt that human emotion is really that strong.Yeah, I think that classic Cybermen were suits of armor though. So maybe the ones in Closing Time were of that group.I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors. The PW Cybermen were born of mankind's fear of death, and their cruelty. They are human nature, save without compassion and kindness. They show us what were are like without restraint, monsters. They are worse than the Daleks, at least the Dalek's don't turn you into one of them, they only kill you. A quick death is better than a lifeless future.

[Alyska]

Another thing that bothers me- I could tell that the shop assistant and security guard were going to die, purely based on the colour of their skin. Yes, it's probably bad that I made that assumption, but it's even worse that I'm usually right. If the show didn't do it so often, I wouldn't have come to expect it by now.

[Danska: Shadow Master]

Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...

Cybus 'cybermen' are brains in suits. The original Mondasian Cybermen (and various off-shoots) were the result of a human-like race that, very slowly, began replacing their limbs, organs etc. with mechanical components and eventually took it to the logical extreme. They're a mesh of organic and cybernetic parts, so it's not as clear-cut as just a person or a brain in a mechanical suit. Open a Cyberman up and it'll probably be all kinds of funky. I think Craig's conversion was mentioned as being 'stage 1'. My interpretation of that is that it's a preliminary (perhaps emergency, given the state they were in) process that would make him functional, but not fully converted.

I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors.

I agree, it's a really good idea. My only problem with it is them being called Cybermen. They're not. The Mondasian Cybermen's primary motivation is to survive by any means necessary, This means expanding, converting other species and eliminating ones that pose a threat. The method they came up with for survival is 'make sure nothing else can pose a threat' which basically means conquer everything. They believe organic life is weak, limited by emotions and is 'not to be trusted'. Unlike the Daleks, they believe progress and change are good things if they will benefit the Cyber race and are not on a quest to eliminate all other life because it's different. Because they think logically, it is theoretically possible to reason with the Cybermen (though rarely in practise). You could, theoretically, convince them that conquering the universe is not the best option, though you would probably need 100 Doctors all being super-persuasive each backed up by a significant threat to even begin to make any headway on that front. In case you didn't notice, I kind of like the Cybermen.

[Harvali]

Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...

Cybus 'cybermen' are brains in suits. The original Mondasian Cybermen (and various off-shoots) were the result of a human-like race that, very slowly, began replacing their limbs, organs etc. with mechanical components and eventually took it to the logical extreme. They're a mesh of organic and cybernetic parts, so it's not as clear-cut as just a person or a brain in a mechanical suit. Open a Cyberman up and it'll probably be all kinds of funky. I think Craig's conversion was mentioned as being 'stage 1'. My interpretation of that is that it's a preliminary (perhaps emergency, given the state they were in) process that would make him functional, but not fully converted.

I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors.

I agree, it's a really good idea. My only problem with it is them being called Cybermen. They're not. The Mondasian Cybermen's primary motivation is to survive by any means necessary, This means expanding, converting other species and eliminating ones that pose a threat. The method they came up with for survival is 'make sure nothing else can pose a threat' which basically means conquer everything. They believe organic life is weak, limited by emotions and is 'not to be trusted'. Unlike the Daleks, they believe progress and change are good things if they will benefit the Cyber race and are not on a quest to eliminate all other life because it's different. Because they think logically, it is theoretically possible to reason with the Cybermen (though rarely in practise). You could, theoretically, convince them that conquering the universe is not the best option, though you would probably need 100 Doctors all being super-persuasive each backed up by a significant threat to even begin to make any headway on that front. In case you didn't notice, I kind of like the Cybermen.

Agreed, didn't classic who indicate that the classic Cybermen would eventually ascend to another plane? Or was that not canon? Either way, the Cybermen need their own season. One could argue that series 2 was a Cybermen/Torchwood season, but the climax was stolen by the Daleks. The Daleks were like an afterthought, and they didn't even see the Cybermen as a threat.

[Danska: Shadow Master]

Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...

Cybus 'cybermen' are brains in suits. The original Mondasian Cybermen (and various off-shoots) were the result of a human-like race that, very slowly, began replacing their limbs, organs etc. with mechanical components and eventually took it to the logical extreme. They're a mesh of organic and cybernetic parts, so it's not as clear-cut as just a person or a brain in a mechanical suit. Open a Cyberman up and it'll probably be all kinds of funky. I think Craig's conversion was mentioned as being 'stage 1'. My interpretation of that is that it's a preliminary (perhaps emergency, given the state they were in) process that would make him functional, but not fully converted.

I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors.

I agree, it's a really good idea. My only problem with it is them being called Cybermen. They're not. The Mondasian Cybermen's primary motivation is to survive by any means necessary, This means expanding, converting other species and eliminating ones that pose a threat. The method they came up with for survival is 'make sure nothing else can pose a threat' which basically means conquer everything. They believe organic life is weak, limited by emotions and is 'not to be trusted'. Unlike the Daleks, they believe progress and change are good things if they will benefit the Cyber race and are not on a quest to eliminate all other life because it's different. Because they think logically, it is theoretically possible to reason with the Cybermen (though rarely in practise). You could, theoretically, convince them that conquering the universe is not the best option, though you would probably need 100 Doctors all being super-persuasive each backed up by a significant threat to even begin to make any headway on that front. In case you didn't notice, I kind of like the Cybermen.

Agreed, didn't classic who indicate that the classic Cybermen would eventually ascend to another plane? Or was that not canon? Either way, the Cybermen need their own season. One could argue that series 2 was a Cybermen/Torchwood season, but the climax was stolen by the Daleks. The Daleks were like an afterthought, and they didn't even see the Cybermen as a threat.

I don't think there was anything about that in the TV series, so I don't regard it as canon. Theoretically they could become all sorts of things. I think in one of the books or radio shows (or something. One of the non-TV sources) they become the most peaceful race in the universe. That's not impossible for the Cybermen, though it would make a very dull story. They definitely need their own series, though I fear if they get one I'll only be annoyed when they deviate even slightly from what I consider to be the 'core concept' of the Cybermen which, as I explained, is a foolish thing to do since they have the potential to change and be radically different from their traditional view. Well, what good has making sense ever done anyone? Nevertheless, I expect them to be a threat worthy of the entire galaxy forming an alliance to destroy them (though ideally without involving some sort of ridiculous galaxy/universe/reality destroying bomb), because that did happen.

[Harvali]

I don't think there was anything about that in the TV series, so I don't regard it as canon. Theoretically they could become all sorts of things. I think in one of the books or radio shows (or something. One of the non-TV sources) they become the most peaceful race in the universe. That's not impossible for the Cybermen, though it would make a very dull story. They definitely need their own series, though I fear if they get one I'll only be annoyed when they deviate even slightly from what I consider to be the 'core concept' of the Cybermen which, as I explained, is a foolish thing to do since they have the potential to change and be radically different from their traditional view. Well, what good has making sense ever done anyone? Nevertheless, I expect them to be a threat worthy of the entire galaxy forming an alliance to destroy them (though ideally without involving some sort of ridiculous galaxy/universe/reality destroying bomb), because that did happen.

Yeah, I see the significance as that the Cybermen have the potential to stop fighting others, while there is no hope for the Daleks. If the Doctor really tried, he might be able to use logic to stop a cyber attack. But Daleks will not stop until all are dead. After which the Daleks would become really depressed and purposeless with no one to kill. Yeah, one must be careful with keeping the cast IC. That is why we can't see any more Weeping Angels, at least as the main villains. They aren't adaptable enough to use frequently without changing their stats.

[Valyou]

The rest of my family is REALLY into Doctor Who ever since the day they watched an episode after taking years with not understanding much of the weird Doctor-related things that go on at the convention they go to.As much as I try, I can't seem to get into it at all, I've watched a few episodes here and there, but I haven't watched very much besides those few little episodes. I just don't know why I'm the only one in my family unaffected by Doctor Who. Is it a weird condition that only the Doctor can help? (heh, had to do that)

[LaputanMachine]

Doctor Who now is just so bad (IMO), I watch Torchwood instead. It's a great alternative for me.

[Grey Snow]

I like you, Konahkan. Though I don't find it as bad as you. I've just grown bored of Amy and Rory (surprisingly; I love the idea of keeping the Companions on for more than a season with the same Doctor, but those two just drag on. I think if it was just one static Companion, my feelings would be different).

[LaputanMachine]

I like you, Konahkan. Though I don't find it as bad as you. I've just grown bored of Amy and Rory (surprisingly; I love the idea of keeping the Companions on for more than a season with the same Doctor, but those two just drag on. I think if it was just one static Companion, my feelings would be different).

I agree. Well, Torchwood seems to make a lot more sense than most of the DW episodes now, maybe because it has the David Tennant writer, Russell T Davies. I much prefer him to Steven Moffat.

[Zatth]

I'm one of those fans who has based his entire life around the show. And I love it. A lot.Tennant and Smith are my favorite Doctors at the moment, but I'll wait until I can see more Classic episodes to form better opinions on the original Doctors.

[Grey Snow]

That's where I must disagree, Konahkan. I prefer Moffat as a writer to Davies. Davies always tried to portray the Doctor as some sort of god, and focused far too much on him, rather than the Companions. I hated that. And his writing in general got to me, with the Daleks appearing so much, and all of the resets, basically (granted, Moffat did it too, but in a much smarter way that makes you think, rather than just being pulled out of nowhere. Granted, your mileage may vary.).

[Tilius]

Doctor Who now is just so bad (IMO), I watch Torchwood instead. It's a great alternative for me.

Torchwood Miracle Day was utterly terrible. As was every other series except for Children of Earth. Torchwood should've died when Ianto died, because Ianto/Jack was a pretty big centre to the show. On Moffat and Davies, I'd say I do prefer Moffat, but he's not yet reached the heights of stuff like Blink and The Empty Child. He's been too focussed on the River stuff, which should really have been a much more gradually told story. His writing has gathered a Davies edge, a little bit. At least his finales are less formulaic. I also expected Moffat to fill in all the blanks that he sets up, which he hasn't so far. And also the River killing the Doctor, and the Doctor being the best man she ever knew, sucked. It was so predictable that I was hoping for a twist where she kills Rory instead. That would've been some good misdirection, but bleh. Rory's the best companion since Donna, so I wouldn't actually want him to die. - Tilius

[Ravrahn]

Personally I liked (not to the same level as Who, though) Miracle Day, but only after Episode 7, before that was not good. And Tils, surely you wouldn't mind Rory dying, you must have normalised to it by now!

[Danska: Shadow Master]

I also agree that Children of Earth is the only good thing to come out of Torchwood. Series 1 was poor and 2 mediocre (though it is sad I found them to be better than Doctor Who of the same era). Miracle Day was truly awful. It might have worked as another 5-part series, though even then I have my doubts. If they make another series of Torchwood, I will not be watching. I think my brain would start dribbling out my ears. I definitely prefer Moffat over Davies and, while he has his faults, it's nice to be be in a situation where I can pick them out rather than having to scrabble around to find anything good (as was the case with Davies). I definitely think he needs to focus a bit more on writing stand-alone (scary) episodes, because that seems to be where his strengths lie. I'm also dissapointed that Amy and Rory are returning in Series 7 (particularly if they return as full-time companions, which will probably be the case). While I like them both, I would dearly love to see Eleven zipping around the universe with someone new at his side.

[Venomcus]

It makes sense for them to return, as they're heavily entwined with the series arc. I personally think it's just for a couple of episodes or so.

[The Present Automaton]

I'd be happy to have Rory at his side. Forget Amy, Karen's really starting to annoy me. I just want the guy who even death can't hold, and a hotel based on peoples fears tries to show him the exit.

[Grey Snow]

It's confirmed for just a few episodes, not full time. I'm with Automaton; Rory and Eleven would be great. Amy probably is the reason I'm starting to dislike the season.

Edited by Lord Koji, Oct 16 2011 - 05:54 PM.

[Blessed Blade]

Yeah, I've gotta admit, Rory's awesome. I mean, time after time, it seems like he's gone, for good, but he just comes right back as if nothing's ever happened. xD

[Danska: Shadow Master]

It's confirmed for just a few episodes, not full time.

Oooh, really? Do you have a source for this? I'd like to have a look. One of the reasons I'd also like to see them not return is because, well, they have a life now. A decent, normal life with a nice house, jobs (at least for Amy) and a very shiny car. It's the best position the Doctor's ever left anyone in. It would be nice to see them not wind up with their life ruined. Or dead. And yes. Rory is awesome.

Edited by Danska: Shadow Master, Oct 16 2011 - 05:59 PM.

[GSR]

My guess is that Amy and Rory will be akin to Martha in Series 4; living their own lives but able to call the Doctor if they need help for an ep or two.

[Grey Snow]

This would imply that Rory's involvement is limited. I think this link is fine to post, but might not be. One would assume the same holds true for Amy. Guess there is no direct confirmation, but it seems to be pointing to a Martha Series 4 situation, as GSR said.

[ChocolateFrogs]

Apparently it's been announced that Moffat's only giving us half of 2012's series, and showing the rest in 2013....WHAT!? Doesn't he think I pay my licence fee for a reason?

Moffat moved Doctor Who to a fall show because people prefer to be outside doing stuff with their families at 6 PM on a sunny Saturday afternoon in the spring/summer, not inside watching TV. It's a business move and a smart one from such a visionary producer. I might as well chime in on all the discussion going on: I loved the two finales! River's revelation was unexpected and the episode itself was good--twists, turns, and witty dialogue. The actual finale had everything expected (and unexpected) while being really cool with the time disruption and solving the Doctor's death (while it was a double, thank goodness it wasn't a Ganger). While it wasn't as good as The Big Bang it certainly showed Moffat's brilliance. (And besides, that ending! The question! Moffat is such a troll. So awesome.)Let's Kill Hitler was filler, admittedly, but it did its job. Nothing to hate it for, really. Just not something you'd show someone to convince them to watch DW. -CF(And of course, The Doctor's Wife was amazing!)

[-Toa Lhikevikk-]

Since it would appear, then, that Amy and Rory's time as regular companions is not far from ending (or has even ended already) who would you like to see as (a) new companion(s)?

[The Present Automaton]

One thing I don't get is the idea that it's helpful for the Doctor that everyone thinks he's dead. Why, how on earth does that help? Most of the time, anyone who meets him has no idea who he is, and anyone who does recognise him will just figure that it's a younger version of him from whizzing around before he died. Maybe after he regenerates it might make a difference, but until then, it's pointless. And then there's the fact that anyone pre-2011 in the entire universe won't even know he should be dead.

[Venomcus]

One thing I don't get is the idea that it's helpful for the Doctor that everyone thinks he's dead. Why, how on earth does that help? Most of the time, anyone who meets him has no idea who he is, and anyone who does recognise him will just figure that it's a younger version of him from whizzing around before he died. Maybe after he regenerates it might make a difference, but until then, it's pointless. And then there's the fact that anyone pre-2011 in the entire universe won't even know he should be dead.

This. Is doesn't make sense to me, also the police box is still a red light to Daleks and Cybermen and whatnot.

Edited by Venomcus, Oct 19 2011 - 02:39 PM.

[Blessed Blade]

Maybe it's because the event was a fixed point, as he always said; it had to happen. However, I do wonder how he'll have a smaller presence, after going off saving the worlds time and time again. =P

[Ravrahn]

River sending that message to everywhere in time and space probably helped convince people he's dead.

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

My guess is that if people think he's dead they don't think he's a constant threat. Who knows what a Doctor with all the time in the world might be planning

[BB246]

The important thing is for the Silence to think the Doctor is dead. They've proven extremely efficient at trying to kill him, and if they think they've succeeded, they'll hopefully stop trying.

[Bioran23]

Just finished watching the last episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures. My goodness, Sladen's acting was absolutely brilliant, the plot was light-hearted and family-based, and the ending was perfect. If only cancer hasn't taken her away. :'( It makes me wonder why Sarah Jane is being neglected by The Doctor back in Doctor Who. A lot of SJA episodes could be DW episodes, and that's definitely the case for this last episode. (It makes for a pretty good one, too.) You could switch Sarah Jane with The Doctor and back again and there probably wouldn't be much of a difference. - Bioran

Edited by Bioran23, Oct 20 2011 - 09:05 AM.

[Republic Commando Fixer]

In reading all of these posts, why does everyone have " The Silence" banner's or avatars? They are creepy! Anyway, I'm almost done watching Series 5 and waiting for Series 6 part 1 to get here! Ughh I can't wait till it's here!RCF

[GSR]

It makes me wonder why Sarah Jane is being neglected by The Doctor back in Doctor Who. A lot of SJA episodes could be DW episodes, and that's definitely the case for this last episode. (It makes for a pretty good one, too.) You could switch Sarah Jane with The Doctor and back again and there probably wouldn't be much of a difference.

My guess is that the Doctor knows she's happy in her life right now and so leaves her be most of the time.

[ChocolateFrogs]

What do we do with things we don't like? We put them in the cupboard.(From the internet.) -CF

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Moffat tied this in brilliantly! From series 2 episode The Girl in the Fireplace when it was implied there was more to the question "Doctor who?" then series 4's Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead and now this! Amazing tie-in. Makes you wonder if he planned it since 2006 or if he just thought of it as a coincidence XD. Series 6 is my favorite season, the Eleventh Doctor my favorite Doctor and Amy, Rory and River my favorite companions. I've seen classic series season 1's An Unearthly Child part 1, the 1996 movie and all modern series episodes (including mini-episodes and Christmas specials) except series 1's The Unquiet Dead, The Long Games and Father's Day. I haven't seen the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 6th Doctors in an episode yet. Of the ones I have seen, this is my scale from best to worst:1-Matt Smith2-David Tennat3-Paul McGann4-Peter Davison5-Sylvester McCoy6-William Hartnell7-Christopher EccelstonThe only classic series companions i've seen are Barbara Wright, Ian Chesterson, Susan Foreman and Sarah Jane Smith. Here's my companion scale from best to worst:1-Amy Pond2-Rory Williams3-River Song4-Donna Noble5-Rose Tyler6-Martha Jones7-Sarah Jane Smith8-Mickey Smith9-Jackie Tyler10-Jack Harkness11-Astrid Peth12-Grace Holloway13-Adelaide Brooke14-Abigail Pettigrew15-Kazran Sardick16-Susan Foreman17-Barbara Wright18-Ian Chesterson19-Lynda Moss20-Adam Mitchell

[Ravrahn]

Hypothesis: The Doctor's name is the key that unlocks the Time War - The Silence, being 'Sentinels of History', know the Time Lords are evil and thus really really don't want the question to be answered.

[Danska: Shadow Master]

Oooh, are we making lists of favourites now? Must join in! Ok then. Favourite Doctors:1. Jon Pertwee2. Peter Davison3. Tom Baker4. Matt Smith5. Patrick Troughton6. Christopher Eccleston7. Paul McGann8. David Tennant9. William Hartnell10. Colin Baker11. Sylvester McCoy Companions (proper multi-story companions from 3rd Doctor onwards. As in, TV companions who travelled with the Doctor for a season or more):1. Romana (1>2)2. Donna Noble3. Jo Grant4. Rory Williams5. Leela6. K97. Amy Pond8. Harry Sullivan9. Sarah Jane Smith10. Liz Shaw11. Turlough12. Nyssa13. Tegan Jovanka14. Peri Brown15. Adric16. Rose Tyler17. Martha Jones18. Ace19. Melanie Bush I didn't mention Grace Holloway because she only appeared in the film, and I am not subjecting myself to that again just to form some kind of opinion of her. Brigadier Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart is one of my favourite characters in Doctor Who, but I don't count him as a companion since it's more fair to say the Doctor became part of his life rather than vice versa. River Song I also did not mention since she appears erratically and is not a travelling companion in the same vein as the others. That was fun! Let's do it again sometime.