
Doctor Who. Official!
#41
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:20 AM
"Danger is the anvil on which trust is forged"-Jaller(Jala)
"We're on our own here-like we've always been-and we'll stand or fall on our own"-Tanma
"He may seem slow and strange to you, but his simple words often carry a hidden wisdom"-Turaga Vakama on Kapura
#42
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:41 AM
I think it was meant to be a fairly lighthearted episode before the final. I actually quite liked it, regardless of how illogical it was. It's Doctor Who! A lot of stuff happens just because some character wished hard enough, so, by this show's standards, it wasn't too much of a stretch that a baby crying could stop a Cyberman-conversion. I do think the other Cybermen being destroyed by it, however, is taking it a little bit beyond my suspension of disbelief. Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...I have a lot of negative emotions directed towards closing time. Really, the day is saved by the Power of Heart? It's not cliche, it's just sad. I was hoping that Craig would stay converted and though the Cybermen would be destroyed, it would further convince the Doctor that he only brings pain to his companions.
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#43
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:57 AM
No, that wouldn't have made sense in Closing Time. The episode was supposed to be therapeutic and cathartic, something to ease the Doctor into willingly going to his deathI have a lot of negative emotions directed towards closing time. Really, the day is saved by the Power of Heart? It's not cliche, it's just sad. I was hoping that Craig would stay converted and though the Cybermen would be destroyed, it would further convince the Doctor that he only brings pain to his companions.
#44
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:58 AM
"Danger is the anvil on which trust is forged"-Jaller(Jala)
"We're on our own here-like we've always been-and we'll stand or fall on our own"-Tanma
"He may seem slow and strange to you, but his simple words often carry a hidden wisdom"-Turaga Vakama on Kapura
#45
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 06:23 AM
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#46
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 07:53 AM
Cybus 'cybermen' are brains in suits. The original Mondasian Cybermen (and various off-shoots) were the result of a human-like race that, very slowly, began replacing their limbs, organs etc. with mechanical components and eventually took it to the logical extreme. They're a mesh of organic and cybernetic parts, so it's not as clear-cut as just a person or a brain in a mechanical suit. Open a Cyberman up and it'll probably be all kinds of funky. I think Craig's conversion was mentioned as being 'stage 1'. My interpretation of that is that it's a preliminary (perhaps emergency, given the state they were in) process that would make him functional, but not fully converted.Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...
I agree, it's a really good idea. My only problem with it is them being called Cybermen. They're not. The Mondasian Cybermen's primary motivation is to survive by any means necessary, This means expanding, converting other species and eliminating ones that pose a threat. The method they came up with for survival is 'make sure nothing else can pose a threat' which basically means conquer everything. They believe organic life is weak, limited by emotions and is 'not to be trusted'. Unlike the Daleks, they believe progress and change are good things if they will benefit the Cyber race and are not on a quest to eliminate all other life because it's different. Because they think logically, it is theoretically possible to reason with the Cybermen (though rarely in practise). You could, theoretically, convince them that conquering the universe is not the best option, though you would probably need 100 Doctors all being super-persuasive each backed up by a significant threat to even begin to make any headway on that front. In case you didn't notice, I kind of like the Cybermen.I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors.

#47
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 08:14 AM
Agreed, didn't classic who indicate that the classic Cybermen would eventually ascend to another plane? Or was that not canon? Either way, the Cybermen need their own season. One could argue that series 2 was a Cybermen/Torchwood season, but the climax was stolen by the Daleks. The Daleks were like an afterthought, and they didn't even see the Cybermen as a threat.Cybus 'cybermen' are brains in suits. The original Mondasian Cybermen (and various off-shoots) were the result of a human-like race that, very slowly, began replacing their limbs, organs etc. with mechanical components and eventually took it to the logical extreme. They're a mesh of organic and cybernetic parts, so it's not as clear-cut as just a person or a brain in a mechanical suit. Open a Cyberman up and it'll probably be all kinds of funky. I think Craig's conversion was mentioned as being 'stage 1'. My interpretation of that is that it's a preliminary (perhaps emergency, given the state they were in) process that would make him functional, but not fully converted.Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...
I agree, it's a really good idea. My only problem with it is them being called Cybermen. They're not. The Mondasian Cybermen's primary motivation is to survive by any means necessary, This means expanding, converting other species and eliminating ones that pose a threat. The method they came up with for survival is 'make sure nothing else can pose a threat' which basically means conquer everything. They believe organic life is weak, limited by emotions and is 'not to be trusted'. Unlike the Daleks, they believe progress and change are good things if they will benefit the Cyber race and are not on a quest to eliminate all other life because it's different. Because they think logically, it is theoretically possible to reason with the Cybermen (though rarely in practise). You could, theoretically, convince them that conquering the universe is not the best option, though you would probably need 100 Doctors all being super-persuasive each backed up by a significant threat to even begin to make any headway on that front. In case you didn't notice, I kind of like the Cybermen.I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors.
"Danger is the anvil on which trust is forged"-Jaller(Jala)
"We're on our own here-like we've always been-and we'll stand or fall on our own"-Tanma
"He may seem slow and strange to you, but his simple words often carry a hidden wisdom"-Turaga Vakama on Kapura
#48
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 08:27 AM
I don't think there was anything about that in the TV series, so I don't regard it as canon.Agreed, didn't classic who indicate that the classic Cybermen would eventually ascend to another plane? Or was that not canon? Either way, the Cybermen need their own season. One could argue that series 2 was a Cybermen/Torchwood season, but the climax was stolen by the Daleks. The Daleks were like an afterthought, and they didn't even see the Cybermen as a threat.Cybus 'cybermen' are brains in suits. The original Mondasian Cybermen (and various off-shoots) were the result of a human-like race that, very slowly, began replacing their limbs, organs etc. with mechanical components and eventually took it to the logical extreme. They're a mesh of organic and cybernetic parts, so it's not as clear-cut as just a person or a brain in a mechanical suit. Open a Cyberman up and it'll probably be all kinds of funky. I think Craig's conversion was mentioned as being 'stage 1'. My interpretation of that is that it's a preliminary (perhaps emergency, given the state they were in) process that would make him functional, but not fully converted.Anyone else find it weird that those Cybermen were basically just humans stuck inside a suit of armour with their emotions turned off? I thought it was a human brain in a robot body or something...
I agree, it's a really good idea. My only problem with it is them being called Cybermen. They're not. The Mondasian Cybermen's primary motivation is to survive by any means necessary, This means expanding, converting other species and eliminating ones that pose a threat. The method they came up with for survival is 'make sure nothing else can pose a threat' which basically means conquer everything. They believe organic life is weak, limited by emotions and is 'not to be trusted'. Unlike the Daleks, they believe progress and change are good things if they will benefit the Cyber race and are not on a quest to eliminate all other life because it's different. Because they think logically, it is theoretically possible to reason with the Cybermen (though rarely in practise). You could, theoretically, convince them that conquering the universe is not the best option, though you would probably need 100 Doctors all being super-persuasive each backed up by a significant threat to even begin to make any headway on that front. In case you didn't notice, I kind of like the Cybermen.I personally preferred Pete's World Cybermen, because they were the race the Doctor thinks has so much potential. The need to assimilate, to dominate, to convert; these are all human behaviors.


#49
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 08:39 AM
Yeah, I see the significance as that the Cybermen have the potential to stop fighting others, while there is no hope for the Daleks. If the Doctor really tried, he might be able to use logic to stop a cyber attack. But Daleks will not stop until all are dead. After which the Daleks would become really depressed and purposeless with no one to kill. Yeah, one must be careful with keeping the cast IC. That is why we can't see any more Weeping Angels, at least as the main villains. They aren't adaptable enough to use frequently without changing their stats.I don't think there was anything about that in the TV series, so I don't regard it as canon.
Theoretically they could become all sorts of things. I think in one of the books or radio shows (or something. One of the non-TV sources) they become the most peaceful race in the universe. That's not impossible for the Cybermen, though it would make a very dull story. They definitely need their own series, though I fear if they get one I'll only be annoyed when they deviate even slightly from what I consider to be the 'core concept' of the Cybermen which, as I explained, is a foolish thing to do since they have the potential to change and be radically different from their traditional view. Well, what good has making sense ever done anyone?
Nevertheless, I expect them to be a threat worthy of the entire galaxy forming an alliance to destroy them (though ideally without involving some sort of ridiculous galaxy/universe/reality destroying bomb), because that did happen.
"Danger is the anvil on which trust is forged"-Jaller(Jala)
"We're on our own here-like we've always been-and we'll stand or fall on our own"-Tanma
"He may seem slow and strange to you, but his simple words often carry a hidden wisdom"-Turaga Vakama on Kapura
#50
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 09:46 AM
Please enjoy a series of on signals and off signals sent from a far off computer to yours, forming short messages that may disturb and amuse!
#51
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 09:55 AM
For me, BIONICLE was an epic science fantasy saga with a deep and complex lore, and was best when it was exactly that in its later years. I'm not sorry if that offended you.
#52
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 10:37 AM
#53
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 10:57 AM
I agree. Well, Torchwood seems to make a lot more sense than most of the DW episodes now, maybe because it has the David Tennant writer, Russell T Davies. I much prefer him to Steven Moffat.I like you, Konahkan. Though I don't find it as bad as you. I've just grown bored of Amy and Rory (surprisingly; I love the idea of keeping the Companions on for more than a season with the same Doctor, but those two just drag on. I think if it was just one static Companion, my feelings would be different).
For me, BIONICLE was an epic science fantasy saga with a deep and complex lore, and was best when it was exactly that in its later years. I'm not sorry if that offended you.
#55
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 11:26 AM
#56
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 02:20 PM
Torchwood Miracle Day was utterly terrible. As was every other series except for Children of Earth. Torchwood should've died when Ianto died, because Ianto/Jack was a pretty big centre to the show. On Moffat and Davies, I'd say I do prefer Moffat, but he's not yet reached the heights of stuff like Blink and The Empty Child. He's been too focussed on the River stuff, which should really have been a much more gradually told story. His writing has gathered a Davies edge, a little bit. At least his finales are less formulaic. I also expected Moffat to fill in all the blanks that he sets up, which he hasn't so far. And also the River killing the Doctor, and the Doctor being the best man she ever knew, sucked. It was so predictable that I was hoping for a twist where she kills Rory instead. That would've been some good misdirection, but bleh. Rory's the best companion since Donna, so I wouldn't actually want him to die. - TiliusDoctor Who now is just so bad (IMO), I watch Torchwood instead. It's a great alternative for me.
#57
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 04:48 PM
#58
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:47 PM
#59
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:51 PM
#60
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:53 PM
I wrote stories once. They were okay.
#62
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:55 PM
The Pokemon Topic
Pokemon: Rise of the Rockets - Rise of the Rockets Discussion Topic - Rise of the Rockets Side Stories
#63
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 05:59 PM
Oooh, really? Do you have a source for this? I'd like to have a look. One of the reasons I'd also like to see them not return is because, well, they have a life now. A decent, normal life with a nice house, jobs (at least for Amy) and a very shiny car. It's the best position the Doctor's ever left anyone in. It would be nice to see them not wind up with their life ruined. Or dead. And yes. Rory is awesome.It's confirmed for just a few episodes, not full time.
Edited by Danska: Shadow Master, Oct 16 2011 - 05:59 PM.
#64
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 06:18 PM
Hey: I'm not very active around BZP right now. However, you can always contact me through PM (I have email notifications set up) and I will reply as soon as I can.
Useful Topics: The Q&A Compendium | The Official RPG Planning Topic
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Blog: Defendant Lobby no. 42
#65
Posted Oct 16 2011 - 07:22 PM
#66
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 02:21 PM
Moffat moved Doctor Who to a fall show because people prefer to be outside doing stuff with their families at 6 PM on a sunny Saturday afternoon in the spring/summer, not inside watching TV. It's a business move and a smart one from such a visionary producer. I might as well chime in on all the discussion going on: I loved the two finales! River's revelation was unexpected and the episode itself was good--twists, turns, and witty dialogue. The actual finale had everything expected (and unexpected) while being really cool with the time disruption and solving the Doctor's death (while it was a double, thank goodness it wasn't a Ganger). While it wasn't as good as The Big Bang it certainly showed Moffat's brilliance. (And besides, that ending! The question! Moffat is such a troll. So awesome.)Let's Kill Hitler was filler, admittedly, but it did its job. Nothing to hate it for, really. Just not something you'd show someone to convince them to watch DW. -CF(And of course, The Doctor's Wife was amazing!)Apparently it's been announced that Moffat's only giving us half of 2012's series, and showing the rest in 2013....WHAT!? Doesn't he think I pay my licence fee for a reason?
#67
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 02:30 PM
#68
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 02:31 PM
I wrote stories once. They were okay.
#69
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 02:39 PM
This. Is doesn't make sense to me, also the police box is still a red light to Daleks and Cybermen and whatnot.One thing I don't get is the idea that it's helpful for the Doctor that everyone thinks he's dead. Why, how on earth does that help? Most of the time, anyone who meets him has no idea who he is, and anyone who does recognise him will just figure that it's a younger version of him from whizzing around before he died. Maybe after he regenerates it might make a difference, but until then, it's pointless. And then there's the fact that anyone pre-2011 in the entire universe won't even know he should be dead.
Edited by Venomcus, Oct 19 2011 - 02:39 PM.
#70
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 02:41 PM
The Pokemon Topic
Pokemon: Rise of the Rockets - Rise of the Rockets Discussion Topic - Rise of the Rockets Side Stories
#71
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 03:11 PM
#73
Posted Oct 19 2011 - 05:09 PM
#74
Posted Oct 20 2011 - 09:03 AM
Edited by Bioran23, Oct 20 2011 - 09:05 AM.
#75
Posted Oct 20 2011 - 09:24 AM

#76
Posted Oct 20 2011 - 11:51 AM
My guess is that the Doctor knows she's happy in her life right now and so leaves her be most of the time.It makes me wonder why Sarah Jane is being neglected by The Doctor back in Doctor Who. A lot of SJA episodes could be DW episodes, and that's definitely the case for this last episode. (It makes for a pretty good one, too.) You could switch Sarah Jane with The Doctor and back again and there probably wouldn't be much of a difference.
Hey: I'm not very active around BZP right now. However, you can always contact me through PM (I have email notifications set up) and I will reply as soon as I can.
Useful Topics: The Q&A Compendium | The Official RPG Planning Topic
Stories: Fractures | An Aftermath | Three Stories | LSO 2012 Epics: Team Three | The Shadow and the Sea | The Days They Were Needed | Glitches | Transformations | Echoes | The Kaita and the Storyteller
BZPRPG: Komae · Soraya · Bohrei
Blog: Defendant Lobby no. 42
#77
Posted Oct 22 2011 - 03:05 PM
#78
Posted Oct 22 2011 - 05:34 PM
#79
Posted Oct 22 2011 - 05:51 PM
#80
Posted Oct 22 2011 - 06:18 PM

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