Doctor Who. Official!

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I really liked last night's episode. Hilarious and great to see more of Mr. Pink. Spiders in next saturday's episodes... well my arachnophobia can stuff it, Doctor Who is more important!

[Makuta Miras]

Always and forever! I'm hoping that we'll see Danny travelling in the Tardis in a few later episodes in this series. I hope next week's won't be as disappointing as Listen.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

This series is odd, just odd. The only episode I liked was 'Into the Dalek', whilst I completely disliked the first episode and 'Listen' promised much but completely let me down.

 

'Time Heist' was okay.

 

I hope Steven Moffet isn't around for long. I haven't truly enjoyed an episode since 'Dinosaurs on a Spaceship'. His episodes are lacklustre and his female characters lack character development and any meaningful personality.

[The Swimming Beard]

This series is odd, just odd. The only episode I liked was 'Into the Dalek', whilst I completely disliked the first episode and 'Listen' promised much but completely let me down.

 

'Time Heist' was okay.

 

I hope Steven Moffet isn't around for long. I haven't truly enjoyed an episode since 'Dinosaurs on a Spaceship'. His episodes are lacklustre and his female characters lack character development and any meaningful personality.

 

Not to mention that they use the exact same appearance for so many of them. Consider the Eyepatch woman from series 6, Missy, and Calibraxas.

 

Anyway, I agree with msot of what you said about this season.

Edited October 2, 2014 by Smooth Jazz

[Makuta Miras]

Well, it looks like Clara's gone now.

I think it's a shame that we didn't get a close-up of the dragon-thingy which was in the Moon, though. And I won't raise any questions about how it was able to lay another egg right after it was born. I am so not going there.

[Pomegranate]

Well, it looks like Clara's gone now.

I think it's a shame that we didn't get a close-up of the dragon-thingy which was in the Moon, though. And I won't raise any questions about how it was able to lay another egg right after it was born. I am so not going there.

There are animals on our planet that are basically born pregnant. And it probably doesn't have a baby waiting to hatch in that egg, like hens lay eggs without chicks that are gonna come out of 'em. I don't like how quickly it happened and how big it was, though :/ That was just... blegh. All the science in this episode was just sooooo off that it was distracting but I'm just ignoring it for my own sanity I loved Courtney, and that bit at the end with Clara was fantastic. I enjoyed the episode, though the ending was a bit of a let down. I thought we were gonna get consequences but oh well, I guess. Next one looks good!

[Trijhak]

Much like Rings of Akhaten, from what I've seen this has been an incredibly polarizing episode. For what it's worth, I enjoyed it and I ignored the science. I'm just happy for once the Doctor wasn't at the centre of one of these 'hazy moments'/moments in flux. Courtney was much more tolerable than the kids in NiS. As well, this episode would probably be better off as a two parter, perhaps with the first part ending with the egg revelation. 

 

Looking forward to the next episode though - that premise sounds very interesting.

[John Smith]

For what it's worth, I thought the episode was great. It'll be really interesting to see what comes next for Clara. The egg at the end was a bit of a cheat, but really, there's not much else they could have done; getting rid of the moon would just be too much. Personally, I think this is shaping up to be the best season in a while.

[Alyska]

I just had a weird thought... if Scotland had declared independence, would that have changed the unwritten "rules" for who could be cast as the Doctor? It would be blasphemy to suggest that they couldn't cast any more Scots on the grounds that they weren't British, and yet Scotland would be no more connected to Britain (except by geography) than Canada, New Zealand, Australia or any other Commonwealth country. So would a Canadian Doctor have to be considered equally plausible as a Scottish one?

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

That was a really good episode this week. The revelation of the moon being an egg was fantastic, something I did not expect even when we saw the germ spiders. Clara was also fantastic, the first time she has been since she's been a companion, especially at the end, it was a great piece of acting.

 

Hopefully our Orient Express adventure follows on and the series starts picking up!

 

 

 

I just had a weird thought... if Scotland had declared independence, would that have changed the unwritten "rules" for who could be cast as the Doctor? It would be blasphemy to suggest that they couldn't cast any more Scots on the grounds that they weren't British, and yet Scotland would be no more connected to Britain (except by geography) than Canada, New Zealand, Australia or any other Commonwealth country. So would a Canadian Doctor have to be considered equally plausible as a Scottish one?

 

We'd have just turned to Wales and Northern Ireland for our next Doctor

Edited October 6, 2014 by Gathered Friends

[Alyska]

Yeah, Clara's feeling much, much more like a real person now- there are so many moments in the last series where Eleven would do or say something odd or creepy, and Clara just wouldn't react to that, and that might have been because of her crush on him. But now she's actually responding, actually calling him out and asserting how she feels, and she's no longer the Impossible Walking Plot Device/Sass Dispenser.

 

And I like Twelve's dynamic with her a lot- I like the fact that he's rude and gruff, and yet he obviously respects her intelligence far more than Eleven seemed to- she's not coddled and belittled any more, and is given more autonomy. And I like how the episode was in some ways reminiscent of The Waters of Mars, yet with the Doctor taking the complete opposite approach to the situation- he acted arguably out of humility and respect, and yet Clara took it as negligent and condescending.

 

Also great how the question for Clara is not necessarily "Can I trust the Doctor to do the right thing?", in this case it's "Should the Doctor trust me to do the right thing?" It's tremendously subtle in terms of writing- we've all had moments where we feel something has very nearly gone horribly wrong on our watch, and even though it turns out okay, and people are keen to reassure us of that, you can't help feeling like you're an incompetent buffoon that somehow gets repeatedly mistaken for a responsible adult. Beautifully written, and beautifully acted. 

[CHTrilogy]

I'll say it: this series is not one I'll look back on with undiluted pleasure. Frankly, it's painful to even think about it, for a number of reasons.

Edited October 8, 2014 by CHTrilogy

[Trijhak]

For those interested in the big finish audios, the audio Blood of the Daleks Part 1 is currently free as a download over at the Big Finish. It's the first in 'Eighth Doctor Adventures' series. (though not necessarily the first 8th Doctor audio chronologically, that's in Big Finish's main range.)

[CHTrilogy]

Ah yes, I remember the first time I heard that on Radio 7...

[Trijhak]

Mummy on the Orient Express was great IMO.

 

Better than last week's, for sure. Well, at least in my opinion. The writer of this also wrote next week's episode: Flatline.

Edited October 11, 2014 by Pulse Trijhak

[Makuta Miras]

That was great. Excellent. Just short of Into The Dalek, I'd say. The whole concept of the episode just really felt like it had "This Is Doctor Who!" plastered all over it. It really was great. And Clara isn't gone! Looks like I spoke too soon. 

[The Swimming Beard]

Finally, a great episode, the best this season IMO. I was hugely disappointed with this season so far, but MotOE did a great deal to salvage that. Hopefully the next episode will be as good. 

[Van Hohenheim]

Perkins was the best character. He was smart, but he wasn't without emotion, and calls the Doctor out on his unfeeling nature.

[The Swimming Beard]

I'm just wondering, how would you guys rate your top 5 favorite episodes of the "New" Doctor Who? (not season 8, but all of the new seasons)

 

Personally, my list would be like this:

 

1: The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon

2: The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances

3: The Eleventh Hour

4: Blink

5: The Lodger

Edited October 24, 2014 by Smooth Jazz

[Pomegranate]

- Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways

- Stolen Earth/Journey's End

- Time of the Doctor

- The Snowmen

- Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead

I don't think that's in any particular order, and I just have so many that I love (Doctor's Wife, The Next Doctor, Boom Town/The Doctor Dances)

[Makuta Miras]

The Stolen Earth/Journey's End,

The Angels Take Manhattan,

Day Of The Doctor,

Army of Ghosts/Doomsday,

Nightmare In Silver

[Toa of Gallifrey]

My personal top five:

5-The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances

4-Midnight

3-Mummy on the Orient Express

2-Into the Dalek

1-The Day of the Doctor (yes I'm a 7 year old on the inside, don't judge me. )

[John Smith]

Aliens of London, Love and Monsters, Fear Her, Last of the Time Lords, The Time of the Doctor.

 

Seriously (and in no particular order): Midnight, The Girl in the Fireplace, The Waters of Mars, The Eleventh Hour, The Pandorica Opens/The Big Bang.

 

A few honorable mentions: Turn Left, all of the other pre-series 5 Moffat episodes, The Lodger, Vincent and the Doctor, Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Listen, maybe Deep Breath...I could go on. 

[Trijhak]

My list? It would be like this.

 

6. Night of the Doctor

5. The Impossible Planet/The Satan Pit

4. The Eleventh Hour

3. Vincent and the Doctor

2. Day of the Doctor

1. The Empty Child

 

Honourable mentions: Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Dalek, School Reunion, Midnight, The Pandorica Opens, Listen, Mummy on the Orient Express

 

On the contrary, most if not all my least favourite episodes were from series 6. That was a bad year all around that moved its plot far too fast. Didn't like most of series 3 either, went uphill with Human Nature but went vastly downhill with The Sound of Drums. 

 

Series in order of preference so far:

 

8. Series 6

7. Series 3

6. Series 1

5. Series 7

4. Series 4 + specials (I consider the specials to be an extension of series 4)

3. Series 8

2. Series 2

1. Series 5

[CHTrilogy]

I have been convinced that Steven Muppet is about as incompetent as older George Lucas - and probably worse. Tell me I'm wrong!

[Van Hohenheim]

I have been convinced that Steven Muppet is about as incompetent as older George Lucas - and probably worse. Tell me I'm wrong!

Ok, you're wrong.

 

 

I'd like to remind you that Moffat wrote Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and he did a wonderful job with River Song.

[CHTrilogy]

Believe me, the only reason those episodes were good is because Helen Raynor edited them to be more sensible! Alright then. I'll have to refer you to these facts - and hear me out!:

• His writing is riddled with plot holes. His plots are so complicated that not only does he contradict the show’s past, he contradicts himself within his own single episode. In "Asylum of the Daleks" the Daleks say they cannot destroy their insane counterparts yet the entire plot is the Doctor giving them access to blow up the asylum, and all the mad Daleks in it. This is not done as some form of deception on the Daleks’ part; it is quite obviously a writer who has forgotten what they wrote a couple of pages beforehand.
• Amongst the shows many changes over the last 50 years, it has always managed to keep the same integrity and feel. Under Moffat’s control, the show has taken a completely new turn. It's now about making bad one-liners that wouldn't even be worthy of printing on a shirt!
• The Doctor's enemies have now become nothing more than a joke. The Sontarans were once written as great adversaries that took glory over war. Nowadays we have Strax, whose main purpose is to make bad slapstick jokes.
• Speaking of contradictions: in "Victory of the Daleks" one faction considered the purest of the most recent Daleks to be impure and destroyed them, yet in "Asylum of the Daleks" they seem to be best friends. Also, in "Time of the Doctor" the Daleks know both of the Doctor and even how his regenerations work, even AFTER they were made to forget in "Asylum". It’s too much! All of this thrown together complicated tat and yet the man who wanted to "make the Daleks scary again" hasn’t had them kill a main character in 3 years!
• Back in 2005, the Doctor was not the flawless hero Moffat now wants us to believe. He killed his people to save the entire universe from them and the Daleks. However in the 50th anniversary special "Day of the Doctor" (which only seemed to celebrate the last 8 years of the 50 year old show!) the two Doctors, and another that Moffat made up because he was too lazy to write out Christopher Eccleston’s planned involvement, bring back Gallifrey (his home). Or rather: they rewrote time so that it never happened! Quite apart from the fact that it ruins the entirety of the previous mentions to the Doctor’s loss and suffering for us as viewers, story-wise, rewriting time is nonsense! Moffat’s excuse is that time will fix itself, but this is coming from the man who believes he should be writing nonsensical tales. Surely all drama should have an element of tragedy and worry as well as the lighter sides. What is so dramatic about a world where you can fix time again by going back and it’ll sort itself out? There are NO consequences! Unbelievable! Consequences exist in relation to huge decisions as well as day to day events. People can identify with a reality where loss and seriousness come to play in situations of peril and/or heart break.
• Come to that, Moffat will create an artificial consequence when a cast member is leaving and he needs to create a last minute situation to attempt to pull at heart strings. In "Angels Take Manhattan" he makes it so the Doctor can never visit his companions due to complicated space-time events. He leaves a gaping hole in his logic - or lack thereof! - as there are endless simple ways around the situation. He is head writer of a time travel show yet has admitted he is clueless about theories on how it works in interviews. He hasn’t even picked it up from previous eras!
• It’s bad enough that he can’t write decent situations for his characters however it’s worse looking at the characters in question. They are all incredibly two-dimensional and in the case of the current companion, she has been nothing but a plot point... if you can even call her that. Steven Moffat seems to write his characters as the sort to be laughing in the face of danger, not caring about the chance of imminent death ["who’s scared, Geronimo"] and constantly making jokes about fish fingers and Fezzes with the insistence that it is "cool" to be this crazy. It passes bohemian, transcends over the top and hits the mental mark right on the spot! Every episode he writes has a character like this! Nobody acts like that, nobody knows anyone who acts like that and nobody can identify with that!
• Steven Moffat is a misogynist. In interviews AND in his scripts. He uses the same character preset for nearly all of his female characters - an endless amount of women he writes out to be nothing more than [insert hypocritically mysoginistic word here]! And anyway, if there's one thing I cannot stand, it's a misogynist!

Finally, a quote from him from an interview in 1995:

 

“When I look back at Doctor Who now, I laugh at it fondly. As a television professional, I think ‘How did these guys get a paycheque every week?’. Nothing from the black and white days, with the exception of the pilot episode, should have got out of the building. They should have been clubbing those guys to death. You’ve got an old guy in the lead who can’t remember his lines. You’ve got Patrick Troughton, who was a good actor, but his companions – how did they get their Equity card? They’re unimaginably bad. Once you get to the colour stuff, some of it’s watchable, but it’s laughable. Mostly now, looking back, I’m startled by it.”

 

He's useless, he knows nothing! In fact, George Lucas is far too benevolent for his favour. George Lucas does not expect anyone to be so degrading about women! ...come to think of it, he didn't even write in that many in his films.

Edited July 17, 2015 by CHTrilogy

[Trijhak]

Back in 2005, the Doctor was not the flawless hero Moffat now wants us to believe. 

 

 

I really, really would not consider the Doctor a 'flawless hero', especially not 12 as he currently is. (Or 11, come to think of it.)

 

(Anyone else remember when RTD was 'THE WORST EVER'? JNT? Ah, the endless cycle...)

[CHTrilogy]

Yeah... well... at least they didn't mess things up constantly!

[Trijhak]

Debatable, especially considering JNT and what happened to the show under him as well as his ideas of what the Doctor should wear. (And I'm not so sure how well a quote from almost two decades ago reflects somebody's current views.)

 

I still abhor The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords because of that magical transformation scene... and Stolen Earth/Journey's End because it crammed way too many companions into two episodes in addition to ruining Rose's goodbye at the end of Doomsday. At least The End of Time managed to not ruin it any further.  

Nobody acts like that, nobody knows anyone who acts like that and nobody can identify with that!

 

 

Fairly sure you're referring to 11 here, given the previous sentences, and given that 11 had been a fairly popular doctor, it would seem that yes, some people like him. Which would seem to go against this statement, or at least people liked him regardless. Even then, I'm fairly sure that the Doctor is not meant to be the one we 'identify with', fairly sure that's been the companions' role since 2005 at the very least, which is why the companions tend to be human or near-human.

 

But I've had enough of this, I am not a debater, and if I were to continue I'd be prattling on.

 

---

In sadder news, Michael Hayes, director of The Androids of Tara, The Armaggedon Factor and City of Death has died.

[Alyska]

11 was softer and more optimistic than 9 and 10, though still, of course, flawed. One thing about the Doctor as a character, though- regardless of the mistakes he makes, you shouldn't be left with the impression that somebody else would have done a much better job (at least, not often). Ten frequently fell into that trap- situations where someone should have been saved, but he failed because of his ego, or some other little thing, or he neglected someone's right to decide their own fate (Donna is the prime example). There were some great female characters during his run, yes, but the sheer number of them killed off or otherwise disposed of just to make him feel angstier was horrendous. It was a credit to David Tennant's acting that his doctor was as charismatic as he was in spite of the atrocities he committed. Not to mention the fact that Twelve's constant put-downs of Clara pale in comparison to how he treated Martha.

 

Eleven, generally, made better decisions and did not trip up on his own ego nearly as often. His primary flaw, I think, was his habit of going behind people's backs and witholding vital information about them, and lying, of course, which has been passed onto Twelve. It started with Amy's pregnancy (kinda understandable given that he thought they were being watched, but still not okay), but really became disturbing when Clara was introduced- particularly his breakdown in Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. There was a general clinginess he had towards Clara as well, that felt a bit off to me.

 

It'd be interesting to discuss what a "good" set of flaws for The Doctor to have would be.

[Pomegranate]

Flatline was absolutely terrifying, wow. Loved it.

[Trijhak]

Agreed.

 

 

Hoping Jamie Mathieson is back next series, he's the best writer the show's had in a while judging from his episodes so far. The Boneless were definitely a creative idea, but left ambiguous enough. 

 

Next episode doesn't look too good though...

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

 

I have been convinced that Steven Muppet is about as incompetent as older George Lucas - and probably worse. Tell me I'm wrong!

Ok, you're wrong.

 

 

I'd like to remind you that Moffat wrote Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and he did a wonderful job with River Song.

 

 

Whilst I agree that Moffat was great (Gasmask Zombies, Girl in the Fireplace, BLINK), River Song is a terrible character that is not only annoying, but her genuine character has been rehashed with Karabraxos and this Nethersphere lady. In fact, Moffat has slowly become inept at writing female characters, which is completely frustrating at times.

 

 

The last few episodes have redeemed what I feared was going to be an awful series. Hooray for Jamie Mathieson! Whatever you do, Moffat, sign this man up for Season 9. He knows exactly how to write an episode.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say this: The Doctor has always been flawed in character.

- 1 was hesitant on letting Susan go

- 2 began the strenuous relationship between the Doctor and his Time Lord brethren (his amazing regeneration scene is enough to prove this).

- 4 was mad.

- 5 was hesitant and emotional,

- 6 tried to kill a companion,

- 7 was sinister.

- 9 was recently scarred from the Time War

- 10.

- 11 stopped caring about the people he loved and lost

 

The Doctor is a hero with flaws and that is what makes his character so iconic.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Gathered Friends

[Pomegranate]

 

 

I have been convinced that Steven Muppet is about as incompetent as older George Lucas - and probably worse. Tell me I'm wrong!

Ok, you're wrong.

 

 

I'd like to remind you that Moffat wrote Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and he did a wonderful job with River Song.

 

 

Whilst I agree that Moffat was great (Gasmask Zombies, Girl in the Fireplace, BLINK), River Song is a terrible character that is not only annoying, but her genuine character has been rehashed with Karabraxos and this Nethersphere lady. In fact, Moffat has slowly become inept at writing female characters, which is completely frustrating at times.

 

 

The last few episodes have redeemed what I feared was going to be an awful series. Hooray for Jamie Mathieson! Whatever you do, Moffat, sign this man up for Season 9. He knows exactly how to write an episode.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say this: The Doctor has always been flawed in character.

- 1 was hesitant on letting Susan go

- 2 began the strenuous relationship between the Doctor and his Time Lord brethren (his amazing regeneration scene is enough to prove this).

- 4 was mad.

- 5 was hesitant and emotional,

- 6 tried to kill a companion,

- 7 was sinister.

- 9 was recently scarred from the Time War

- 10.

- 11 stopped caring about the people he loved and lost

 

The Doctor is a hero with flaws and that is what makes his character so iconic.

 

10 lived too long, also the vanity, and how poorly he handled losing people and failing to save everyone (Time Lord Victorious was like a heroic BSOD).

 

I like that 3 and 8 aren't even on that list They're awesome.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

 

 

 

I have been convinced that Steven Muppet is about as incompetent as older George Lucas - and probably worse. Tell me I'm wrong!

Ok, you're wrong.

 

 

I'd like to remind you that Moffat wrote Blink, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead, and he did a wonderful job with River Song.

 

 

Whilst I agree that Moffat was great (Gasmask Zombies, Girl in the Fireplace, BLINK), River Song is a terrible character that is not only annoying, but her genuine character has been rehashed with Karabraxos and this Nethersphere lady. In fact, Moffat has slowly become inept at writing female characters, which is completely frustrating at times.

 

 

The last few episodes have redeemed what I feared was going to be an awful series. Hooray for Jamie Mathieson! Whatever you do, Moffat, sign this man up for Season 9. He knows exactly how to write an episode.

 

EDIT: I'd also like to say this: The Doctor has always been flawed in character.

- 1 was hesitant on letting Susan go

- 2 began the strenuous relationship between the Doctor and his Time Lord brethren (his amazing regeneration scene is enough to prove this).

- 4 was mad.

- 5 was hesitant and emotional,

- 6 tried to kill a companion,

- 7 was sinister.

- 9 was recently scarred from the Time War

- 10.

- 11 stopped caring about the people he loved and lost

 

The Doctor is a hero with flaws and that is what makes his character so iconic.

 

10 lived too long, also the vanity, and how poorly he handled losing people and failing to save everyone (Time Lord Victorious was like a heroic BSOD).

 

I like that 3 and 8 aren't even on that list They're awesome.

 

 

I know, I left it blank because, while we all loved him, he had so, so many flaws that I couldn't write them all down

 

I haven't seen much of 3, I only remember that he didnt like UNIT, but I wouldn't call that a flaw. I haven't seen the Doctor Who movie so I cannot judge 8 really.

 

Time Lord Victorious was one of the best plot twists I have ever seen. I never could have written a plot device like that.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Gathered Friends

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Flaw for 3 might be that he overestimated his own skills, but really that can apply to any incarnation. As for 8, there's no special flaw in the 1996 movie but I've heard that he's a really complex character in the audio dramas, and one of his flaws is not letting go of past mistakes.

[Pomegranate]

Flaw for 3 might be that he overestimated his own skills, but really that can apply to any incarnation. As for 8, there's no special flaw in the 1996 movie but I've heard that he's a really complex character in the audio dramas, and one of his flaws is not letting go of past mistakes.

I think I got a bit of that from Night of the Doctor, where he lists every single companion he's had. I've been meaning to listen to the audio dramas, I'm just having a bit of trouble getting 'em.

[Trijhak]

In The Forest of the Night was better than I expected. Wasn't bad, but not the best either.

 

Better than KTM at least IMO.

 

What really interests me is the next time preview... what the heck is happening?

Of all the people to 'not exist'...

 

[Wyrd Bid Ful Araed]

I thought it was going to go down a more creepy/spooky route given the nod to fairy tales and the obvious Red Riding Hood symbolism, but I did kinda like how they sort of made of twist on that in the end