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#1561 Offline Toa of Gallifrey

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Posted Jan 05 2015 - 08:24 AM

Spoiler


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I am going through the five stages of grief over Half-Life 3.

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#1562 Offline Iaredios

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Posted Jan 23 2015 - 05:45 AM

I bet no one here can guess which doctor I liked the most. :lol:

 

I got in at said Doctor (and missed a good chunk of the first season and first few episodes of the second episodes), and haven't seen the 9th Doctor. i have heard good things about that Doctor season(s?), y'all think I should watch it? I found a used DVD/Blu-Ray case of it at a store nearby.


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#1563 Offline Pomegranate

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Posted Jan 23 2015 - 08:06 AM

Definitely, 9 is fantastic. He only had one season so there's not much to get through, and apart from some fart jokes everything was pretty solid and at least entertaining, and some of his episodes are definitely among the best of revival, Dalek and The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances in particular. It's also got a bit of a different feel to it than the following seasons 'cause the show was still finding its legs and they used weird camera filters and some interesting music choices, so it could be entertaining just to see the differences. Eccleston is an amazing actor, too. His season is on Netflix, if you use that.


Edited by Pomegranate, Jan 23 2015 - 08:08 AM.

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#1564 Offline TurteX

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Posted Jan 23 2015 - 12:45 PM

Eccleston is for sure a good Doctor. His season may not be the best, but it's definitly worth watching if you like Doctor Who. And as Pomegranate mentioned this season has some extremely good episodes, like those he mentioned.


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#1565 Offline CHTrilogy

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Posted Jan 31 2015 - 10:12 AM

Oh, Doctor, I don't deserve to be a fan of you anymore... can't say I have deserved it, really, when I think about it. :(


Edited by CHTrilogy, Jan 31 2015 - 10:15 AM.

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#1566 Offline Toa of Gallifrey

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Posted Jan 31 2015 - 12:28 PM

There's rumors going around from a trustworthy source on Gallifrey Base that there's a new adult show set in the Whoniverse in the works for BBC 3. Apparently some episodes will feature the (12th) Doctor (apparently some episodes were pitched in for River but they weren't accepted), some will feature Jack and Gwen from Torchwood (the guy said post-CoE, not post-MD) and some all new characters. It could be blatant lies (after all, Russell shyed away from featuring the Doctor on Torchwood because he feared the kids would follow the Doctor wherever he went, but then again this season went darker and RTD is no longer in charge) but with new Torchwood radio plays announced (or were they audio dramas?) announced (starring even Tosh, Owen and Ianto to boot), maybe Torchwood will indeed be revisited on TV in some way too.


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#1567 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 01 2015 - 02:02 AM

Oh, Doctor, I don't deserve to be a fan of you anymore... can't say I have deserved it, really, when I think about it. :(

 

Why do you say that?


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#1568 Offline CHTrilogy

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Posted Feb 01 2015 - 05:29 PM

Well - I think I'm becoming disconnected from it. Series 8 proved to me that Moffat has run out of ideas, amongst... other things. I pitched this to other Whovians - and they promptly ganged up on me. Only when I learned that it's only a band of people known as SJWs who resent him that I realised what I got myself into. They poisoned me with their petty, feeble quibbling, and I don't know what to think anymore.

Also, one of them accused me of being a bad Whovian! He said I wouldn't even know what the name of the 100th episode of the classic series was! Apparently I professed the show to be my fanatical interest. But no... I know a lot more about Star Trek than I do Doctor Who.


Edited by CHTrilogy, Feb 01 2015 - 05:39 PM.

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#1569 Offline Pomegranate

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Posted Feb 01 2015 - 05:54 PM

You really shouldn't care what anyone else thinks about your tastes. 'SJW's aren't the only ones who aren't fans of Moffat's lackluster writing and practices. You don't have to know arbitrary episode titles to be a 'true fan' or whatever. You should really pay it no mind and just enjoy the show however you can :)


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#1570 Offline CHTrilogy

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Posted Feb 02 2015 - 10:00 AM

Well it is becoming more... cerebral. It requires a lot more thought on the viewer's behalf - which I don't seem to have put into it.


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#1571 Offline moamahrimatoro

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Posted Feb 06 2015 - 10:39 PM

I think DW is still great, but not what it was. I loved most of season 8, with exemptions of: Deep Breath, That one with Robin Hood, and Into the Forest of the Night (I compare that episode with Teen Titans Go! the worst cartoon ever created. I know little kids who watch it.) This is what that episode falls down to.


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#1572 Online D5 Petewa

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Posted Feb 06 2015 - 10:48 PM

I think DW is still great, but not what it was. I loved most of season 8, with exemptions of: Deep Breath, That one with Robin Hood, and Into the Forest of the Night (I compare that episode with Teen Titans Go! the worst cartoon ever created. I know little kids who watch it.) This is what that episode falls down to.

Teen Titans Go! was intended to be a humorous retelling of the slightly older show: Teen Titans, and while being a stepdown from the original, it still accomplished its goal,

 

I bet no one here can guess which doctor I liked the most.  :lol:

 

I got in at said Doctor (and missed a good chunk of the first season and first few episodes of the second episodes), and haven't seen the 9th Doctor. i have heard good things about that Doctor season(s?), y'all think I should watch it? I found a used DVD/Blu-Ray case of it at a store nearby.

 

Ninth doctor was good, I think my favorite of his episodes is The Doctor Dances, if I'm remembering the title right,


Edited by Petewa, Feb 06 2015 - 10:50 PM.

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#1573 Offline Toa of Gallifrey

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Posted Feb 07 2015 - 03:48 PM

I can't wait for the Doctor Who Ideas set! I really hope it comes with minifigs of all the Doctors (The Watcher, The Valeyard, Meta-Crisis Doctor and Dream Lord notwithstanding) though I'm not gonna hold my breath for anything other than 12 and maybe 4 and 11.


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I am going through the five stages of grief over Half-Life 3.

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#1574 Online D5 Petewa

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Posted Feb 07 2015 - 06:08 PM

I can't wait for the Doctor Who Ideas set! I really hope it comes with minifigs of all the Doctors (The Watcher, The Valeyard, Meta-Crisis Doctor and Dream Lord notwithstanding) though I'm not gonna hold my breath for anything other than 12 and maybe 4 and 11.

I'd hope for ten,


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#1575 Offline GSR

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Posted Feb 19 2015 - 04:48 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/p02kbm8s

Is it considered a spoiler if it's an official clip from the BBC? In any event, look who it is!


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#1576 Offline Toa of Gallifrey

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Posted Feb 19 2015 - 06:58 AM

That's fantastic! I was worried she'd be done away with next time we saw the Master. She's my favorite Master so far!


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#1577 Online D5 Petewa

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Posted Feb 19 2015 - 08:36 AM

Well well, the universe is about to get int'resting,


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#1578 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 20 2015 - 09:04 AM

If they try to give an explanation how she survived, it had better be more plausible than this one I thought up in ten seconds.

 

Ganger harness + TARDIS energy= Perfectly stable artificial body that can be controlled easily and destroyed convincingly without harming user. Done.

 

(Basically, Ganger/Flesh technology means any death can be retconned if need be.)

 

Also, am late to this discussion, but, a few things:

 

  • "SJW"- "Social Justice Warrior" has become something of a derogatory word for feminist/person who is concerned with various types of equality/equity. Yes, there's a portion of those people, particularly those on Tumblr, who tend to classify all famous people as either "perfect and can do no wrong" or "piece of excrement" , but there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking to see more and better representation in your favourite shows. I'd personally prefer it if you didn't use that term to describe well-meaning people, though I do understand where that sentiment comes from. 
  • Anybody who tries to tell you you're not a true fan/uses trivia to humiliate you is not worth your time. You don't have to have spent hundreds of hours of your life watching this show and consuming all the supplementary material to have formed a thoughtful and valid opinion that is worth discussing. A certain type of geek is particularly prone to slinging this type of ignorant bile at feminists and women- hence the whole "Fake Geek Girl" meme and the use of the term "SJW".
  • CHTrilogy, I can tell that you genuinely are concerned with how certain groups are portrayed in your favourite shows, and I think that's great. I will confess I have found your hatred of Moffat a bit aggressive in the past, but there is certainly a lot of thoughtful critique of his work to be had without assuming everything he touches is automatically corrupt and terrible. I personally see him as brilliantly funny, ineffably smug, extremely clever, and generally fond of the "ideal" of the strong female character, while at the same time not wanting to be seen as someone easily swayed by fan opinion, and somewhat reluctant to admit to mistakes. It's totally okay to not necessarily feel one extreme or the other about him, if that's where you are.
  • Please please don't let anyone make you feel bad for liking or disliking a show or a writer the way you do, and I hope you aren't feeling pressured to change your opinion in order to better associate or disassociate with certain fan-groups. Pushy fans like that can really ruin the fandom experience for other people. There's a big reason I mostly only lurk in the Sherlock fandom...

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#1579 Offline CHTrilogy

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Posted Feb 20 2015 - 06:24 PM

Thanks, Alyska. I wish it didn't matter, I really do, but oh apparently, the people who don't like Steven Moffat aren't fans! And I... don't even care anymore.


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#1580 Offline Hordaki

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 10:08 AM

If they try to give an explanation how she survived, it had better be more plausible than this one I thought up in ten seconds.

 

Ganger harness + TARDIS energy= Perfectly stable artificial body that can be controlled easily and destroyed convincingly without harming user. Done.

 

(Basically, Ganger/Flesh technology means any death can be retconned if need be.)

Not a bad theory by any means, but I doubt that they'll bring back the Gangers without having mentioned them at least once last season. 

 

Personally, I think that the beam that killed her didn't actually kill her, but teleported her somewhere else.  Why would the Cybermen, who can turn anyone living or dead into another Cyberman, create a weapon to vaporize potential Cybermen?


Edited by Hordaki, Feb 21 2015 - 10:08 AM.

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#1581 Offline Toa of Gallifrey

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 03:52 PM

 

If they try to give an explanation how she survived, it had better be more plausible than this one I thought up in ten seconds.

 

Ganger harness + TARDIS energy= Perfectly stable artificial body that can be controlled easily and destroyed convincingly without harming user. Done.

 

(Basically, Ganger/Flesh technology means any death can be retconned if need be.)

Not a bad theory by any means, but I doubt that they'll bring back the Gangers without having mentioned them at least once last season. 

 

Personally, I think that the beam that killed her didn't actually kill her, but teleported her somewhere else.  Why would the Cybermen, who can turn anyone living or dead into another Cyberman, create a weapon to vaporize potential Cybermen?

 

That's what I think will happen. That also gives them an excuse to bring back Osgood.


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#1582 Offline Hordaki

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 04:45 PM

 

 

If they try to give an explanation how she survived, it had better be more plausible than this one I thought up in ten seconds.

 

Ganger harness + TARDIS energy= Perfectly stable artificial body that can be controlled easily and destroyed convincingly without harming user. Done.

 

(Basically, Ganger/Flesh technology means any death can be retconned if need be.)

Not a bad theory by any means, but I doubt that they'll bring back the Gangers without having mentioned them at least once last season. 

 

Personally, I think that the beam that killed her didn't actually kill her, but teleported her somewhere else.  Why would the Cybermen, who can turn anyone living or dead into another Cyberman, create a weapon to vaporize potential Cybermen?

That's what I think will happen. That also gives them an excuse to bring back Osgood.

Wasn't Osgood killed by Missy's iPhone of Death? Unless that's also a teleporter, in which case I don't see why she would keep Osgood alive. I would love to see her back, but I doubt we'll see her again.


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#1583 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 07:17 PM

The Cybermen can't convert all species. They'd be powerless against things like the Daleks if they didn't have some kind of weapon on them. A blaster of sorts also helps against physical objects in your way.

 

I actually think they won't give any explanation. They rarely have before with the Master.


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#1584 Offline Hordaki

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 08:36 PM

The Cybermen can't convert all species. They'd be powerless against things like the Daleks if they didn't have some kind of weapon on them. A blaster of sorts also helps against physical objects in your way.

 

I actually think they won't give any explanation. They rarely have before with the Master.

Good point, but I meant that if Missy could be converted (and according to Nightmare in Silver, Time Lords can be), there would be no reason to vaporize her. But of course Moffat could just ignore that and hand-wave it away. I hope not, but he could.


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#1585 Offline moamahrimatoro

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 09:28 PM

In the new video, Missy mentions that an apple reminded her of Adam and Eve. Are we doing more religious stuff past Heaven?


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#1586 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 09:58 PM

 

The Cybermen can't convert all species. They'd be powerless against things like the Daleks if they didn't have some kind of weapon on them. A blaster of sorts also helps against physical objects in your way.

 

I actually think they won't give any explanation. They rarely have before with the Master.

Good point, but I meant that if Missy could be converted (and according to Nightmare in Silver, Time Lords can be), there would be no reason to vaporize her. But of course Moffat could just ignore that and hand-wave it away. I hope not, but he could.

 

A normal cyberman would probably try to convert her, yes. But the cyberman in question wasn't exactly ordinary...


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#1587 Offline Hordaki

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Posted Feb 21 2015 - 10:07 PM

 

 

The Cybermen can't convert all species. They'd be powerless against things like the Daleks if they didn't have some kind of weapon on them. A blaster of sorts also helps against physical objects in your way.

 

I actually think they won't give any explanation. They rarely have before with the Master.

Good point, but I meant that if Missy could be converted (and according to Nightmare in Silver, Time Lords can be), there would be no reason to vaporize her. But of course Moffat could just ignore that and hand-wave it away. I hope not, but he could.

 

A normal cyberman would probably try to convert her, yes. But the cyberman in question wasn't exactly ordinary...

Yeah, I realized that after I posted. I guess it could have killed her, but I thought that that would be a simple way to explain bringing her back. I'd just prefer Moffat had an actual explanation for it and not because wibbly-wobbly (this coming from someone who actually does enjoy his work).


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#1588 Online D5 Petewa

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Posted Feb 22 2015 - 07:41 PM

In the new video, Missy mentions that an apple reminded her of Adam and Eve. Are we doing more religious stuff past Heaven?

I hope not,


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#1589 Offline CHTrilogy

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Posted Feb 23 2015 - 09:47 AM

In the new video, Missy mentions that an apple reminded her of Adam and Eve. Are we doing more religious stuff past Heaven?

 

That would surely be suicide!


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#1590 Offline Alyska

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Posted Feb 23 2015 - 07:54 PM

I don't know about "more" necessarily- remember that the main villains of Series 5-7 were a religious group, with certain unflattering parallels towards real-life religions. We've had a monster that preyed upon religious and superstitious people (lumping the two together is quite telling, no?), and an overarching theme of how  beliefs about death and mortality can be used to manipulate people ("don't cremate me!"). But at the same time, they've confirmed the in-universe existence of an afterlife, so they're not really on either side of the fence as far as I can see. There's always going to be social commentary in Doctor Who, and religion is part of the package.

 

Nor is it Moffat exclusive- RTD had an episode where the Doctor literally confronts Satan... or an alien that might just happen to resemble our idea of him. Religious themes in this show are not new.


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#1591 Offline toa ordaku

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Posted Feb 25 2015 - 10:39 PM

You really shouldn't care what anyone else thinks about your tastes. 'SJW's aren't the only ones who aren't fans of Moffat's lackluster writing and practices. You don't have to know arbitrary episode titles to be a 'true fan' or whatever. You should really pay it no mind and just enjoy the show however you can :)

As a creative writing major, I can confirm this. And the reason "social justice warriors" typically have problems with the show are his portrayals of women and PoC, the former of which Moffat has repeatedly stated only exist to fall in love with the Doctor. All around, he's not a good writer, and he doesn't treat his characters and the legacy of the show with the respect that it deserves.

 

 

In the new video, Missy mentions that an apple reminded her of Adam and Eve. Are we doing more religious stuff past Heaven?

 

That would surely be suicide!

 

We've actually already gone past heaven, if you consider the devil as portrayed in series 2.


Edited by toa ordaku, Feb 25 2015 - 10:40 PM.

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#1592 Online D5 Petewa

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Posted Feb 25 2015 - 11:54 PM

 

You really shouldn't care what anyone else thinks about your tastes. 'SJW's aren't the only ones who aren't fans of Moffat's lackluster writing and practices. You don't have to know arbitrary episode titles to be a 'true fan' or whatever. You should really pay it no mind and just enjoy the show however you can :)

As a creative writing major, I can confirm this. And the reason "social justice warriors" typically have problems with the show are his portrayals of women and PoC, the former of which Moffat has repeatedly stated only exist to fall in love with the Doctor. All around, he's not a good writer, and he doesn't treat his characters and the legacy of the show with the respect that it deserves.

 

 

In the new video, Missy mentions that an apple reminded her of Adam and Eve. Are we doing more religious stuff past Heaven?

 

That would surely be suicide!

 

We've actually already gone past heaven, if you consider the devil as portrayed in series 2.

 

I would like to mention that Missy considered herself to be God,


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#1593 Offline moamahrimatoro

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Posted Apr 13 2015 - 03:24 PM

Can I just say I really disliked Last of the Time Lords, but thought Utopia was great? Can we please talk about this? I mean, I found myself comparing it to Death in Heaven. It was LTL done right. Master's in it, and humanity is changed. Exept in LTL it was stupid. Also, The Doctor turns into… Gollum? That was stupid. Honestly, the whole story was just -

 

HEY HEY LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO WITH CGI SPECIAL EFFECTS LETS GO CRAZY

 

But Utopia was still a good idea.


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#1594 Offline Iaredios

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Posted Apr 14 2015 - 08:02 AM

Can I just say I really disliked Last of the Time Lords, but thought Utopia was great? Can we please talk about this? I mean, I found myself comparing it to Death in Heaven. It was LTL done right. Master's in it, and humanity is changed. Exept in LTL it was stupid. Also, The Doctor turns into… Gollum? That was stupid. Honestly, the whole story was just -

 

HEY HEY LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO WITH CGI SPECIAL EFFECTS LETS GO CRAZY

 

But Utopia was still a good idea.

I loved those two episodes. :D The Utopia story was great, and the thing that honestly haunts me the most from Last of the Time Lords is what The Master did to the last humans; the rest of it could have been better.

 

 

Am i the only one that dislikes the current Master (Missy)? I mean he/she is alright I guess, but he appeared to have had sacrificed himself thence redeeming himself by saving Earth and The Doctor from a fascist(?) Gallifrey, then he/she pops up again later like nothing happened. I was kind of peeved about that.


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#1595 Offline You Have 24 Hours

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Posted Apr 14 2015 - 11:33 AM

He'll do that. Though as a general rule of thumb, if it appears the Master has died, the Master has not in fact died. The Master's come back from being burnt to death. At this point, cheating death is kind of one of the things they do more or less. 

 

Moffat tries too hard to make his plot looks clever, and the plots suffer because of that. He seems to equate good plot with complex plot, which is not always the case. Not to mention his episodes with more complex plots are his worst ones. Doctor Dances, it's just nanotechnobabblemachines that are the reason. Enough to satisfy. Girl in the Fireplace, simple. Blink, simple concept: statues can move! Library: The shadows eat you! 

 

And then you have stuff like the Pandorica and the entirety of series 6, which he tried to make so complex it ended up being nothing but terrible episode after terrible episode. The Doctor dies! Companion pregnant! Stuff happens, mostly terrible episodes. Then AGMGTW, which was terrible. A bunch of people we have never seen before are called by the Doctor to help (they could have at least actually put them in the three episodes between DotM and AGMGTW, then it would be far more forgivable) and suddenly, travelling in the time vortex makes babies part time lord for... a reason that is NEVER, EVER EXPLAINED. Then you have an utterly needless break in the series, completely ruining the pace. Suddenly you have "Let's Kill Hitler", which is IMO the worst episode in the revived series by far. Literally sounds like the title was thought up one day and that he tried to shoehorn a plot into it. Then we have Amy's childhood friend, who we never saw before despite seeing the place she grew up in The Eleventh Hour, who turns out to be Melody despite having the most obvious name imaginable that didn't even try to hide it. Never mind the implication that Melody already somehow knew her parents were Amy and Rory which is NEVER, EVER EXPLAINED. Also somehow getting across from the USA to a small village in England.. as a child.  Which is ridiculously implausible. Nobody would allow a lone child to get that far. Then of course there's the Tesselecta thing, along side the whole dying Doctor... the episode has far too much going on at once. Then there's a bunch of more forgettable episodes, which can all be summarised with 'in the end the Doctor saved the day with the power of love'. Then there's that abhorrent wedding episode with the alternate timeline that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, they're not even coy about hiding the fact they never explain what's going on in it. It is more or less the biggest offender when it comes to 'the day is saved by the power of love' because if I recall, the time problem is solved with a kiss. Then the Doctor survives, and people were somehow shocked despite him being the titular character. (it'd be like if any show named after its titular character had its titular character die) Sorry. I just really hate the sixth series.

 

The problem with most writers and actors of the show is that they're fans. They pour their heart into it but because they like it so much, they can't see the flaws. What do Moffat, Davies, Tennant, and Capaldi have in common? They were all fans of the show when they were younger. (This is, IMO, why fanfiction is often terrible as well.) It is therefore no surprise that Jamie Mathieson's episodes of series 8 were some of the best received ones: as far as we know, he wasn't a fan of the show. 

 

And of course, saying that plus the stuff I already about his complex episodes being the worst ones, I am very apprehensive about series 9 for one reason: I can already tell it is far too ambitious for its own good.

 

Just look at the so-far revealed episode titles:

 

9x01: The Magician's Apprentice

9x02: The Witch's Familiar (this and the above both written by Moffat)

9x05: The Girl Who Died (written by Moffat and Mathieson, will be very interesting to see how this one turns out)

9x06: The Woman Who Lived (written by Catherine Tregenna)

 

You can probably already tell what he appears to be trying to do. On the bright side: we appear to be getting a lot more two-parters, which may alleviate some problems with the plots. There is speculation that the entire series is made up of nothing but two-parters. It's like an overdue payment for the lack of them since series 6. It would seem the first six episodes are two-parters, at least. Toby Whithouse is writing episodes 3 and 4 and they've been confirmed to be two parts, the opener is a two-parter and episodes 5 and 6 have similar titles and are both directed by Ed Bazalgette, implying they're also a two-parter. Beyond that, I think episode titles and directors have yet to be confirmed. If we have thirteen episodes instead of 12 episodes like series 8, we may even have a three-parter. Ambitious, if so. I wouldn't object to seeing a four-parter one day, either. 

 

For the record, I like Moffat for the most part. I just hate series 6, the way he tries to make his plots overly complex, and am of the opinion that it shouldn't be one person showrunning the, well, show. Should be multiple people. It'd be more consistent that way, I think.


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#1596 Offline moamahrimatoro

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Posted Apr 14 2015 - 07:17 PM

 

Can I just say I really disliked Last of the Time Lords, but thought Utopia was great? Can we please talk about this? I mean, I found myself comparing it to Death in Heaven. It was LTL done right. Master's in it, and humanity is changed. Exept in LTL it was stupid. Also, The Doctor turns into… Gollum? That was stupid. Honestly, the whole story was just -

 

HEY HEY LOOK AT WHAT WE CAN DO WITH CGI SPECIAL EFFECTS LETS GO CRAZY

 

But Utopia was still a good idea.

I loved those two episodes. :D The Utopia story was great, and the thing that honestly haunts me the most from Last of the Time Lords is what The Master did to the last humans; the rest of it could have been better.

 

 

Am i the only one that dislikes the current Master (Missy)? I mean he/she is alright I guess, but he appeared to have had sacrificed himself thence redeeming himself by saving Earth and The Doctor from a fascist(?) Gallifrey, then he/she pops up again later like nothing happened. I was kind of peeved about that.

 

What do you mean?


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#1597 Offline Alyska

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Posted Apr 15 2015 - 03:57 AM

Re Missy- We don't technically know that this regeneration came chronologically after John Simm's Master. She is a time traveller, after all. Expecting lasting character development from a recurring character like The Master probably isn't going to stick given the nature of the show, and the Master will always pop up again regardless of how they died last time, but you can use time travel to rationalise it if it makes you feel better.


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#1598 Offline Iaredios

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Posted Apr 15 2015 - 06:46 AM

Re Missy- We don't technically know that this regeneration came chronologically after John Simm's Master. She is a time traveller, after all. Expecting lasting character development from a recurring character like The Master probably isn't going to stick given the nature of the show, and the Master will always pop up again regardless of how they died last time, but you can use time travel to rationalise it if it makes you feel better.

Well that is a shame, no character development and all. The time-traveling bit makes sense, so that means the one the 10th Doctor encountered is possibly the last incarnation of him. It does make me feel better, thanks.  :D


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