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The Original Beings -- A Grand Unifying Theory Of Planets And E P


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#1 Online bonesiii

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Posted Feb 23 2012 - 09:58 PM

Hey yall, yet another of my crazy theories, some of it already mentioned in posts. This is intended to answer several important questions raised by what we learned in the last few years of Bionicle, and opens up some interesting possibilities.Those questions include, how can Spherus Magna be so mind-bogglingly huge compared to Earth, yet still have Earth gravity?How can Bionicle physics like that be different (re: Greg's oft-quoted statement that Earth physics apply only when he wants them to), and yet seemingly contradict statements that Spherus Magna, the stars, and other planets are made out of normal matter like in our universe? Versus the giant robot which was made of the fictional protodermis.Why is there "natural" energized protodermis in Spherus Magna's core?Why did the EP cause the Shattering, and why did Mata Nui have to wait a long time before doing the reforming? (These two I can't answer very well, actually, other than just to make sure he was ready and wouldn't mess up, and the answer given before that the rock had to stabilize. Why it had to, I can't fathom.)Most importantly, even if we assume that it's the EP's fault that the above deviations from Earth physics work, why would Mata Nui need to study other planets out there?And this question is like it -- how is it he could land on those planets? If most were Earth-sized, and of Earth's population, just putting one foot in should kill vast numbers due to flooding, and there basically wouldn't be room to lay down.But if, by contrast, those other ones were all much huger, how could that be?My theory is that a looooooong, loooooooooooong time ago, there were Original Beings.The Great Beings are known to have originated a ton of things in Bionicle, but not the EP, or the Agori/Glatorian, and their own origin is unknown. All these things taken together may indicate even more important beings who, either directly or indirectly, made the GBs, Agori/Glat, and the EP.These ancient beings probably come from a planet like Earth.They did one key thing.They invented the original protodermis.The EP enables four key things:1) The powers of protodermis we have seen already, including perhaps an ability to be programmed related to my previous cyberclay theories (though the proto the GBs used was their own version of it).2) Act as an "expansive mutagen" on rock, making a small rock planet much bigger, but making rock that behaves strangely towards gravity, and can channel some effects of EP. Does this by materializing new mass from its huge amount of stored energy.3) Randomishly makes living beings (another ability we've already seen).4) Can enable faster-than-light travel so the Original Beings (and later the giant robot) can travel to other star systems.At some point long ago, the Original Beings (OBs) realized the abilities of their invention, and that they could create superplanets filled with life, but would have to be done on a lifeless world, NOT their homeplanet. The expansion would probably kill most if not all who lived on an inhabited world (similar to Wrath of Khan but in a different way).And the EP enables FTL, so they had the ability to travel to other star systems and make such worlds. (Likely they would need massive ships or... somethings... to hold all the EP, so the possibility for more extremely massive stuff to rival or even dwarf the giant robots is opened.)They seeded many star systems, perhaps filling a whole galaxy with them (or at least a wide area), all with EP in their cores and all much larger than Earth.In each case, the new rock absorbs excess gravity whenever the total planet's gravity would exceed Earth's gravity. (This part I have mentioned before.) This enables them to stack layer upon layer upon layer of new rock, making planets of any size they wish, with no crushing weight effects. This makes superplanets capable of holding huge populations.The EP would eat through the planet first to reach the core, and begin multiplying the rock whilst modifying it. The strangified rock would push the old rock outward like popcorn. This would be an extremely violent, although possibly slow, geologic upheaval unlike any other. When it reaches full size, so little of it would still be old rock that this would just be comparatively tiny mountain ranges and the like around the surface, which would be a roughly perfect sphere.Then the EP's power would reach out and elementally make water in at least one large area. Many of these planets might be mostly water, maybe no oceans on some (Mata Nui would have trouble with any like that) -- then the life is made in a similar way we've seen before with EP.If all of this is true, then Mata Nui's travels make a ton more sense.Part of this has already been theorized before: cloaking power to hide his approach, and as he lands in the vast water, turning some of the water into energy and storing it so there's no flooding (and rematerializing it when he leaves). Once in, activate the camouflage island later called Mata Nui in honor of him.Eyes facing up watch the stars, any moons, sun(s), and any other planets in the system and analyze all their movements. Instruments in the back of his head take accurate measurements of the planet he's laying on (which as I've said is easier with direct contact than in orbit, though other measurements are better from orbit and would be done before landing).There would be aliens located on these planets, all made by EP, like the Agori/Glatorian but of all kinds of different shapes and sizes.If any of those happened to stumble on the island, not really sure what happens, but probably nothing as long as they leave. If they try to come back after he leaves they'll simply be puzzled. Possibly if they were still there when it was time to leave the Bohrok would as a standard procedure try to Krana them, and they would become part of the swarm. This does not appear to have ever happened, unless perhaps the Order of Mata Nui freed them, maybe Mata Nui had a mind-wipe function, etc. -- various ideas like this have been posted by others and me elsewhere.Anyways, the key here is that all the places Mata Nui is studying are results of transformation by EP, and share the above things with Spherus Magna.The only significant difference is that Spherus Magna just happens to be the one (maaaaybe among a few) whose inhabitants tried to tap into the EP core, causing a Shattering.As I said I'm still not sure why the Shattering would occur, but it can probably be blamed on the rock with weird gravity effects. And this would also somehow explain, I guess, why Mata Nui had to wait a long time for the rock to stabilize again. Something just inherent to its physics since it is not normal matter unlike everything else.Mata Nui is basically studying planets that are what Spherus Magna was supposed to still be. The main reason he was doing this was just that he had to wait anyways for the fragments to stabilize, so it was mainly a precaution to make sure he understood what a reformed Spherus Magna should be like.It's also possible the Great Beings (who were probably just random products of the EP like the Agori and company) had a secondary mission in mind; they may have suspected what this theory is about, and wanted Mata Nui to categorize these planets to learn more about the effects of EP and about what it had created; simply curious! In a way all those beings would be like cousins, so they'd naturally want to know more about them.Why do it so secretively? Well, they'd just experienced all this turmoil, and seen so much chaos caused by their own creations, etc. that they would be quite disillusioned with any idea of peaceful first contact. They would want to play it safe.Most importantly.Listen close here.They probably suspected a big danger.They may have realized that someone even smarter than them, with a bent towards evil... and maybe from the OBs themselves, may have been involved all along in a plot to use all this to their advantage, or have done so later, and be amassing power to conquer all these superplanets.Owning them would certainly be high on the bucket list of any villains out there, and it's unlikely the OBs would all magically be good guys, so it seems inevitable that somewhere, whether OBs or random EP creations, would think of this.The GBs in turn think of this danger, and send Mata Nui partly to spy, looking for any threats like this.And THIS in turn means something huge. It could provide a strong plot basis for a new supervillain to rival Makuta in awesomesauce and be from a totally new world -- and this could provide a strong set design direction -- in short, if this theory is right, then LEGO has great potential for a return to Bionicle. Sorta thought of that accidently along the way, but it make sense.Soooo... whattayall think? :)
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#2 Offline Hubert

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Posted Feb 23 2012 - 10:25 PM

Honestly, this, if true, is huge. Now if the rocks were to defy gravity after being exposed to EP, then I think the shattering, would have happened something like this:In the center of the core, the anti-gravity effects are balanced and result in a lower overall gravity.However when you create a hole in it and allow the EP to flow to the surface, then you have an imbalance in the anti-gravity. More specifically, the EP is pushing against the rocks, normally this would only be a minor fracture, however due the anti-gravity, the rocks now push away from the planet, making the fracture even bigger. As it gets bigger, more EP flows through the cracks, which in turn just makes it even bigger. Thus after a short time the planet becomes completely destabilized, and the ares which had the most EP leaked to them, have the strongest Anti-Gravity, and effectively push themselves away from Spherus Magna. This leads to the formation of Boto and Aqua Magna.Just some food for thought.Also apologies for all the typos I no doubt made.
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#3 Offline fishers64

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Posted Feb 23 2012 - 11:01 PM

EDIT: This theorum actually supports a recent theorum I made, over here. My theory was that the Great Beings were "guiding" the robot by the placement of proto deposits. That would partly explain why Mata Nui did not wander off and explore a bunch of planets that wouldn't help him achieve his mission.That said...

There would be aliens located on these planets, all made by EP, like the Agori/Glatorian but of all kinds of different shapes and sizes.If any of those happened to stumble on the island, not really sure what happens, but probably nothing as long as they leave. If they try to come back after he leaves they'll simply be puzzled. Possibly if they were still there when it was time to leave the Bohrok would as a standard procedure try to Krana them, and they would become part of the swarm. This does not appear to have ever happened, unless perhaps the Order of Mata Nui freed them, maybe Mata Nui had a mind-wipe function, etc. -- various ideas like this have been posted by others and me elsewhere.

Actually, I would argue that the Bohrok, upon running into alien life forms, would likely just kill them all. End of problem, seeing as dead beings don't talk. Having Krana transmute matter and energy to such an extent that would warp alien life forms into Bohrok seems like a serious stretch.

Anyways, the key here is that all the places Mata Nui is studying are results of transformation by EP, and share the above things with Spherus Magna.The only significant difference is that Spherus Magna just happens to be the one (maaaaybe among a few) whose inhabitants tried to tap into the EP core, causing a Shattering.

Hmm...I was given the impression that a bit of EP made it to the surface of the planet in a spring-like format...do Spherus Magnans normally do mining operations that deep? I guess there was some sort of mining for iron, but I don't think that it would go that deep.On that basis, I could theorize that the gravity-absorbing rock would likely be laced with EP deposits that would hold in gravity like a linkage vice, and that at some point all of these "pockets" lined up so it would be an easy smash, drain, smash, drain, to the core.

Edited by fishers64, Feb 24 2012 - 12:04 AM.

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#4 Online bonesiii

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 12:03 AM

Toa Onarax, that makes sense, I guess. I had thought of it as absorbing excess gravity but I think what you're suggesting is more of an anti-gravity that balances it. And this AG field could be stronger over the poles, for some reason, if the EP is disturbed. So it would overload and repel the land over the poles, which became the two moons. That basically what you mean? :)fishers, I've heard you say that before about Bohrok just killing, but I don't see how you figure. First of all, it's inconsistent with the GBs as we know them. While their methods are questionable and often go horribly wrong, it seems their intent is usually good, to save life, not end it. Also, why then didn't the Bohrok kill in 2002? You could argue that, but it's telling, I think, that they already had elaborate strategies ready that they started using immediately to capture and Krana.Also, it sounds like you misunderstood me as saying the aliens would turn into Bohrok. I just meant Krana them like what happened to Lewa and the inhabitants of Le-Koro. :) The fact that to our knowledge no Kranaed aliens have been sighted probably just means this contingency plan wasn't needed, or that the Order or someone else found ways of wiping their mems, etc. But if the GBs were for some reason okay with having murderous robots, they would be the villains, would they not? Not the good guys.I could be wrong, because the things they make do turn out to be deadly often. But it seems their purpose was to stop the war and to reform the planet to save lives.Assume for a moment that the Order memwipe and send home strategy is used. No missing persons to investigate, much less risk of a planet getting suspicious and possibly very dangerous should they find out the truth. Kill 'em and that doesn't mean the other aliens are none the wiser. Especially considering Mata Nui leaves behind massive rock/earth chunks as evidence. It's possible some powerful aliens might figure it out and eventually attack the GBs because of it.Admittedly my Kranaing idea also has that risk, but at least if it ever came to a confrontation they could trot them out and say, "look, we regret this had to happen but they're alive; we're not your enemy."I'm not sure the exact scenario that led to the mining but pretty sure it was made clear that the Shattering was basically the inhabitants' fault for taking too much out. Even if it was a natural well, they wouldn't have had to take so much out. Or something...
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#5 Offline GSR

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 01:27 AM

I think......that this is dovetailing very, very interestingly with a fic plan I'm working on. It's going to be playing very loose with the canon (about as loose as you can get, really) anyways, but this theory could provide some nice connective tissue for the backstory. With credit given, of course! :PBut I digress. It's an interesting theory, and does provide some rhyme and reason to the planets sought out by Mata Nui and possibly even the Great Beings' disappearance (if, as you suggest, they suspected an antagonistic race out there, they might not want to make themselves obvious.)

Edited by GSR, Feb 24 2012 - 01:28 AM.

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#6 Offline Astrotorical

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 06:10 AM

Note: Ive only read the first post, so thats what im basing my response offI do like the theory, it is consistant with the story and what not. Now, personally i dont like the idea of Great Beings as being once humans (or human creations) as im sort of partial to a crossover (you know, imagining that the Matoran could one day come to earth or something :P)Plus the Great Beings seeding the planets with EP. I always assumed EP was a Natural Resource. Such as what they did with Battle Los Angelas (Liquid Water being a rare sight, EP would be a rare occurance). as oposed to a molten Iron core, Spherus magna could have a Protodermis core, and when the agori tried to harness it, it kinda went all *intense pressure from the core expanding outward in all these directions caused the shattering* and what not.the stuff about the planets is good, makes sense. Im not sure about the whole "studying planets to see what Spherus Magna would be like"whose to say he wasnt studying them for science in general. Look at Starfleet, they run around scaning things. its probably your standard Explore new worlds (not exclusively those with EP)Your theory seems a little strange for my liking. If you look at it in general terms it makes sense, but if you be too specific it just seems weird. In all honesty.I dont know though, maybe your right. its a theory after all. :)
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#7 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 12:17 PM

What's to say that the Original Beings made EP, what if they were EP, and by that I mean the EP being. It's been particularly secretive, but also high an mighty about it's knowledge of the universe. So that's my thought.Now tear chunks out of it. :P
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#8 Offline Dralcax

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Posted Feb 24 2012 - 05:46 PM

So, basically, like the embodiments of Aporia in Yu-Gi-Oh 5D's, there's a villain behind the scenes that doesn't appear for most of the saga, but is discovered and has incredible power? Well, when Greg gets the story going again, that might be a new plotline.
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#9 Online bonesiii

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Posted Feb 26 2012 - 09:14 PM

this is dovetailing very, very interestingly with a fic plan I'm working on. It's going to be playing very loose with the canon (about as loose as you can get, really) anyways, but this theory could provide some nice connective tissue for the backstory. With credit given, of course!

Cool! ^_^

I always assumed EP was a Natural Resource.

What I'm proposing probably would mean it's "natural to the Spherus Magna beings", but may not be entirely natural.

Im not sure about the whole "studying planets to see what Spherus Magna would be like"whose to say he wasnt studying them for science in general.

I suspect it's "all of the above," but his core mission was to cure the Shattering, so it makes sense that would be his top priority, or at least high on the list. I'd compare it more with Stargate, where the stated mission was to search other worlds for weapons to help fight the Goa'uld threat (and later threats), but along the way where they could they (or at least Daniel Jackson lol) tried for general interest studies too. :)

What's to say that the Original Beings made EP, what if they were EP, and by that I mean the EP being. It's been particularly secretive, but also high an mighty about it's knowledge of the universe. So that's my thought.Now tear chunks out of it.

I actually had that in the original draft, and then took it out in the hopes that someone else would get the chance to say it, and you did. ^_^ I agree it's a definite possibility. For one thing it would enable the "natural" thing to still be literally true.I do think it would be better if it wasn't the case, per se, because that way there could be a set of at least one OB someday, although I admit EP Entities/Entity could perhaps be represented in set form. Come to think of it, I vaguely remember one game may have shown the Entity with setlike features, but I'm probably remembering wrong.

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#10 Offline Astrotorical

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Posted Feb 28 2012 - 02:41 AM

Ive just discovered that Greg said the Great Beings DID NOT create EP. You can find this in the "Who is the great being" topic, whereby the Energised Protodermis Entity was being made a suggestion. Have a look, see if it fits into your theory
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#11 Online bonesiii

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Posted Feb 28 2012 - 03:29 AM

Yes, I mentioned in the first post that the GBs did not create the EP. :)
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#12 Offline BenLuke

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Posted Feb 29 2012 - 09:23 PM

How do we know that Spherus Magna has earth-like gravity? As far as we know gravity could be far greater then on Earth and all the character are just adapted a higher gravity environment.The rest of the theory makes sense. A disturbing amount of sense. Why am I thinking this is going to end up as part of your Paaracosmos stuff?
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#13 Offline Legolover-361

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Posted Feb 29 2012 - 09:47 PM

I don't much like the idea of EP expanding rock. Expanding a planet wouldn't just mean bulging outward -- new rock would have to grow between expanding cracks, which means energized protodermis would start leaking, and I don't know what that would do to the expanding planet.I think it's more likely that planets like Spherus Magna were already large, but energized protodermis hollowed them out and then assisted in creating a powerful magnetic field to make up for the missing core.
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#14 Online bonesiii

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Posted Feb 29 2012 - 10:33 PM

How do we know that Spherus Magna has earth-like gravity? As far as we know gravity could be far greater then on Earth and all the character are just adapted a higher gravity environment.

There are a lot of reasons to conclude it has earth-like gravity. Mainly, things are shown falling normally. Compare a falling object on the Earth to the moon; it'll fall a lot slower on the moon.

I don't much like the idea of EP expanding rock. Expanding a planet wouldn't just mean bulging outward -- new rock would have to grow between expanding cracks, which means energized protodermis would start leaking, and I don't know what that would do to the expanding planet.

Well, I was figuring it would have a "planet-transforming mode" and after that process is over it would "switch off" to just act like a liquid. The Entity was able to control its motion, for example.

I think it's more likely that planets like Spherus Magna were already large, but energized protodermis hollowed them out and then assisted in creating a powerful magnetic field to make up for the missing core.

And transform the gravity effects? It's possible, but why would that planet, and many others, be huge? It seems most logical to me that since we seem to know of multiple huge planets, and the one we know a lot about has EP in it, that the EP is probably the cause. Otherwise the one we know of seems to be normal, at least on the surface.

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#15 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 01 2012 - 10:40 PM

I don't much like the idea of EP expanding rock. Expanding a planet wouldn't just mean bulging outward -- new rock would have to grow between expanding cracks, which means energized protodermis would start leaking, and I don't know what that would do to the expanding planet.

Well, I was figuring it would have a "planet-transforming mode" and after that process is over it would "switch off" to just act like a liquid. The Entity was able to control its motion, for example.

But the EP expanding rock would make sense considering the "well" of EP that the SM inhabitants had to drain it. Maybe there was an error in this process that created the well the SM inhabitants fought over. The GBs aren't perfect; who's to say the "OBs" are either?

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#16 Offline Tahu Nuva 3.0

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Posted Mar 02 2012 - 09:48 PM

I wouldn't put it past Greg to take the route of OB, since its done before (Mass Effect, Halo, and fantasy really), and it is very interesting. Part of this theory, and a main question for all of Bionicle, will be what exactly is protodermis and what is its limits? In essence, we believe it is the miracle grow of matter, nanites that can change formation and channel different properties.The EP as a planet grower is a very interesting theory, and I must dwell on this further...(also, with planets and civilizations, it could mean that Hero Factor is a few galaxies away)
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#17 Offline Field Marshal Rakmon

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Posted Mar 03 2012 - 06:14 PM

I'd almost consider writing this into an epic, but I can't keep a central driving force behind a plot to save my my life and I'd just abandon it after a while (re: Every epic I've ever attempted to write except one, which isn't on this forum).My thoughts:This is genius, but you may be overthinking it to the point LEGO hasn't even imagined this. Very awesome though.
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#18 Offline Vandenreich

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Posted Mar 04 2012 - 10:23 AM

Well then who made the OBs, well I guess you could just keep going on as to who created who. so enough of that.And if Protodermis and the OBs created many Planets could Quaza from Hero factory be Simply Protedermis aswell the Hero Factory wiki states-''Whatever is inside the Quaza Stone enables it to contain enough information to create an entire personality or even the soul of a hero''Sound like Protodermis to you?

Edited by Deltus, Mar 04 2012 - 10:38 AM.

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#19 Offline mandmboy

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Posted Mar 10 2012 - 04:03 PM

This is an epic idea. Good work, bonesiii: you are good at coming up with awesome explanations for everything. Keep it up.
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#20 Offline ToaNedurno

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Posted May 31 2012 - 04:58 PM

Well then who made the OBs, well I guess you could just keep going on as to who created who. so enough of that.

Want to avoid an everlasting chain of who-made-who, time travel is your answer! OB's are actually beings (perhaps some we already have met) who go back in time with a vast amount of knowledge, power, and EP. Granted, to mesh well with this theory these beings would've needed to come from the far future where extremely large and fast spaceships are more commonplace and bigger than the MU.Only issue with this theory is you don't get the novelty of new characters :P

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#21 Offline Hahli Husky

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Posted May 31 2012 - 06:07 PM

Oh noes, revival! Time for closing. :(
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