Bionicle Fighter: Broken Virtues

[Katuko]

Yes, you will be able to melee attack while moving. It will no longer stop you completely, but actually hitting something will reduce you to walk speed. I imagine certain weapons will be easier to swing while moving once I get to that coding, such as a dagger.

[Onaku]

What you should also do is add the skakdi as a species, and then have the option for species-based teams.

[Hexann]

As promised a lil' review.

 

First thing I would like to address is the Psionic's primary ability and you want to know what? It's freakin' awesome. It shoots down and up (For lack of a better way to describe it...waves maybe?) 'nuff said. I've realized that it can be more effectively used when you have Miru then you can just fly around and hit people who are below you.

 

The Onu-Koro map is also pretty awesome. It took me a while to even explore all it. I also like all the little details you added to it such as the bohrok corpses.

[~Shockwave~]

I just built a new computer and loaded this game up. Wirks awesomely, wuth no lag of any kind. So until the issue with windows 8 gets fixed I can run it there.

[NorikSigma]

Lovin' the update. New map, new power, bot names. Pretty good, no bugs yet.

[JacobLazer]

As promised a lil' review.

 

First thing I would like to address is the Psionic's primary ability and you want to know what? It's freakin' awesome. It shoots down and up (For lack of a better way to describe it...waves maybe?) 'nuff said. I've realized that it can be more effectively used when you have Miru then you can just fly around and hit people who are below you.

 

The Onu-Koro map is also pretty awesome. It took me a while to even explore all it. I also like all the little details you added to it such as the bohrok corpses.

My friend saw me reading Damaracx's post and said, "That's pretty overpowered." He repeated the thought when I told him that the Psionic attack is invisible to other players. I agree with him. I think maybe it would be a little less overpowered if it wasn't invisible.

[Katuko]

The Psionic attack homes in on targets, though I've tried to limit it so that the homing doesn't really help at close range if you miss. After some consideration I have actually arrived at the same conclusion as you, that it can't be truly invisible without feeling cheap to the target. An effect noting the attack being fired and the on-hit effect would still apply, though, so you would be able to tell what sort of attack was damaging you. Since the attack isn't meant to be blocked by shields or the Hau anyways, I don't know if seeing the projectile will make much of a difference, but I guess it's a bit easier to dodge that way.

 

I might have mentioned it, but I plan to make attacks possible to aim, to an extent. You won't be able to toss a fireball straight up, but you will be able to lob it in a short arc. Trading range for some height by holding Up, essentially. This should help in reaching low-flying attackers and balance flight a bit more. Right now a Miru is pretty much a guaranteed escape plan if you just jump and float upwards.

[JacobLazer]

I might have mentioned it, but I plan to make attacks possible to aim, to an extent. You won't be able to toss a fireball straight up, but you will be able to lob it in a short arc. Trading range for some height by holding Up, essentially. This should help in reaching low-flying attackers and balance flight a bit more. Right now a Miru is pretty much a guaranteed escape plan if you just jump and float upwards.

I like this idea! This will make things much more interesting! muuuhahahahaha

Edited November 26, 2013 by JacobLazer

[Katuko]

...On the other hand, flying and lobbing fireballs would allow you to aim them downwards too, so we'll see how balanced it is in practice.

[Makuta Luroka]

...On the other hand, flying and lobbing fireballs would allow you to aim them downwards too, so we'll see how balanced it is in practice.

You are preoccupied fighting someone when a red toa swoops in and bombs you with a fireball

[Katuko]

Well, you could be preoccupied fighting someone when a fireball comes from the side as well, so I'd call that a matter of perspective. Making a surprise attack, whether that be from off-screen or though teleportation/invisibility/suddenly spawning, will almost always give you the advantage and feel cheap to the victim(s). The issue would rather be that they can hit you while you can't hit them at all, with the question of "overpowered?" being answered by the number of methods in which you could retaliate. For example, you can currently stop a flyer only by stunning them or by going after them in the air yourself. However, they are also unable to aim downwards, for the most part, thus making flight a state in which both combatants are locked into no-damage mode.

 

In another example, though, some powers compares very unfavorably to others when fighting the Exo-Toa, because they do not have enough raw damage output or because their status effects are reduced on it. Poison would be the prime example. I did buff the direct poison damage, but Poison still remains a very unbalanced choice when fighting Exo-Toa. In a different sense, it is very easy to apply poison, but very hard to avoid it. Being afflicted with poison can kill many players due to unavoidable damage over time. Used by a player, though, it may feel too weak because the damage is not front-loaded like with burst attacks, and the Rahkshi of Poison often dies while waiting for the poison to kill. I was thinking of making the poison do significantly less damage if you stand still while afflicted, making it a tactical choice and allowing every player to resist it. By giving this option, the poison could potentially be allowed to have a much higher potency when NOT standing still, thus pulling the Rahkshi of Poison up to a dangerous - but possibly more well-balanced - level.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Katuko

[~Shockwave~]

Speaking of aiming issues, have you thought about using the mouse for aiming? I'm not sure how well that would work though... but it may feel more streamlined while pkaying, and it could open up several options with things like the teleportation piwers.

[Katuko]

Speaking of aiming issues, have you thought about using the mouse for aiming? I'm not sure how well that would work though... but it may feel more streamlined while pkaying, and it could open up several options with things like the teleportation piwers.

The mouse will not be used for aiming. It forces me to condense actions into the typical FPS setup, and it messes with the feel of being able to switch between melee, shields and various powers on the fly. I have tinkered with mouse aim before, but it's something that fits a pure shooter much more than this game, I feel. It is true that it could have a positive effect on certain powers, but it would force me to redesign a lot of the rest to fit. This game has not been balanced around the idea that people can aim anywhere they want with explosives, for example. Maybe it would be better to have mouse aim since the menu is mouse-heavy as well, but I'm building more on the classic platform games than I am on shooters. Plus, being able to play the game just with a keyboard gives you some freedom in where to play it, and how to bind the keys.

[Hexann]

 

...On the other hand, flying and lobbing fireballs would allow you to aim them downwards too, so we'll see how balanced it is in practice.

You are preoccupied fighting someone when a red toa swoops in and bombs you with a fireball

 

I can imagine floating around and randomly nuking people. MWAHAHAHAHA

[~Shockwave~]

 

Speaking of aiming issues, have you thought about using the mouse for aiming? I'm not sure how well that would work though... but it may feel more streamlined while pkaying, and it could open up several options with things like the teleportation piwers.

The mouse will not be used for aiming. It forces me to condense actions into the typical FPS setup, and it messes with the feel of being able to switch between melee, shields and various powers on the fly. I have tinkered with mouse aim before, but it's something that fits a pure shooter much more than this game, I feel. It is true that it could have a positive effect on certain powers, but it would force me to redesign a lot of the rest to fit. This game has not been balanced around the idea that people can aim anywhere they want with explosives, for example. Maybe it would be better to have mouse aim since the menu is mouse-heavy as well, but I'm building more on the classic platform games than I am on shooters. Plus, being able to play the game just with a keyboard gives you some freedom in where to play it, and how to bind the keys.

 

 

I can see that. Just a thought.

[JacobLazer]

 

 

...On the other hand, flying and lobbing fireballs would allow you to aim them downwards too, so we'll see how balanced it is in practice.

You are preoccupied fighting someone when a red toa swoops in and bombs you with a fireball

 

I can imagine floating around and randomly nuking people. MWAHAHAHAHA

 

I made a Toa of Earth with a Miru just so I could do that XD

[Katuko]

I mentioned Poison earlier, and I want to say that I'm going to rework it. I don't like Poison right now. Too easy to apply for full effect, no counters, and yet it's pretty bad at killing things. Therefore I have written up some new mechanics I want you to judge. Keep in mind that this is intended for the BF Engine 2, so even though a lot of this could work right now it is primarily based on working with things like metal shields, the new stat system, etc.Here goes.

 

Poison (Rahkshi primary power, melee effect)

 

Proposed versions of the primary ability:

• Delayed damage: Applies damage over a brief period of time. Fires as a glob of poison in a straight line, with a slight arc to the projectile. Poison effects overwrite each other. Example with a base damage of 60 HP total: 40 in the first second, 20 in the second, 10 in the third and last.
• Burst damage + lingering poison: Applies normal damage for the projectile instantly, followed by a lingering poison over a few seconds. Fires as a glob of poison in a straight line, with a slight arc to the projectile. Lingering poison effects overwrite/reset each other. Example: 40 damage on hit, followed by 5 HP for 5 seconds (total of 65).
• Stacked damage-over-time poison: No instant damage, but applies a lingering poison effect that deals damage in the span of a few seconds. Poison effects stack, making multiple hits progressively more lethal. For each second that passes, the poison grows weaker until its damage reaches 0 or the duration expires. Duration does not stack, but is reset for each hit. Fires a spray of poison in a straight line, with a slight arc to the spray. Each poison particle applies base poison damage to the target, but the spray itself fans out quickly and loses range/duration the longer is it used at a time.

  Example when burst of particles hit: 15, being applied 15 + 13 + 11 + 9 + 7 (duration expires) = 55 damage. Applying two bursts in a row can increase the potency of the poison, so that it does (for example) 15 + 13 + 11 (add another spray of 15 here) + 26 + 24 + 22 + 20 + 18 = 149 damage total; an increase of 20 damage compared to two bursts with a wait in-between (would be 55 + 55 = 110 damage).

I like the last mechanic a lot. Applying multiple poison effects in a row (or from different Rahkshi, if they were a team) would make the poison more and more lethal to the victim, meaning that the poison is not wasted by merely resetting the damage-over-time counter. It would also prevent the immediate burst-fire from being too powerful, and would allow a Rahkshi to whittle down a victim with powerful damage over time... if it can land a full spray consistently. Hitting only with a few particles would not give the poison much potency. Due to shields being able to block poison sprays, and the damage being applied over time, I don't think the damage values above would be too much (as they might seem when you only see "150 damage").

 

A few other balancing factors to help people deal with Poison and to help Poison deal with robots/other stuff:

 

Base traits:

• Moving helps circulate poison quicker. When moving at full speed, lingering poison will deliver more damage than when the victim is standing still.
• Corrosive effect: Poison does minor damage to all equipment that the victim is carrying. Robotic enemies take extra damage from this effect.
• Splash damage: Burst-damage projectiles will cause 50% damage to anyone caught in their small splash radius; about half a player's width from the target.

Melee effect:

Inflicts lingering poison on the target in addition to the melee strike. The poison deals minor corrosive damage to items. Melee damage is affected by armor, but the lingering poison is not.

 

Armor:

Direct poison damage is only 50% affected by regular armor values. Armor has no effect on lingering poison damage or poisonous gas clouds.

 

Shields:

• Poison projectiles can be blocked by regular shields and does not have any force behind them that can break the shield block. Corrosive effect still applies, but only to the shield.
• Energy shields like the Kanohi Hau can block poison and push away poison gas.
• A Psionic shield have trouble with liquids and can therefore not stop poison completely. The poison spray will be slowed down and deflected, but splashes may still hit the Psionic.Perks and stat boostsDepending on how it works in practice, Poison may also debuff the victim with reduced physical strength. We'll see.Finally, since the stat system is being re-done, you will not have STR/VIT/DEX/ELM/MIND as you used to. Increasing the power of elemental attacks etc. will instead be placed into "perk points". There will be generic character perks (+Strength and Melee Damage, for example) and perks that relate directly to your chosen power(s).Examples of perks relevant to Poison:

Rahkshi will at default have powers that are roughly the same as their current Level 3 versions. You will be able to select a Power Rank that defaults to 3 but can be adjusted down to 1 or up to 5. This will be the same for Toa's basic elemental powers. The Power Rank affects direct damage if we go with the projectile versions of the power, or the per-second damage if we go with the other. Adjusting down gives you points to spend elsewhere.

• "Long-lasting poison": Increase duration in seconds, +2 per rank. (2 ranks) From 5 seconds up to 9.
• "Acidic Venom": 50% more equipment corrosion. (1 rank) From 2 to 3 points per 10 poison damage. (Burst of 50 poison damage does 15 item damage).

Regarding corrosion from poison: I do this because I've nixed Acid as a Toa element. It was there in early versions because I planned to add Bohrok as well, but now I'm relocating some of its features elsewhere. Poison has been shown to be acidic in BIONICLE, so it makes sense to give it some extra item damage. The Kanohi Jutlin and Rahkshi of Disintegration will be more capable of destroying equipped items, but if someone is blocking a lot you should be able to wear down their shield with Poison if you need to. Thoughts? Edited January 3, 2014 by Katuko

[Rahkshi Guurahk]

I like the third poison option.

[Makuta Luroka]

I like the proposed ideas. Suggest perhaps the second style as a secondary attack and the third as a primary.

[Katuko]

I was thinking of a gas cloud (rework of the current spray) as the secondary. We'll see how it goes.

[Tohunga_Hukii]

Can you play it on a Mac?

[~Shockwave~]

Can you play it on a Mac?

No. Only windows.

[Hexann]

I was thinking of a gas cloud (rework of the current spray) as the secondary. We'll see how it goes.

I like that one....

[Makuta Luroka]

 

I was thinking of a gas cloud (rework of the current spray) as the secondary. We'll see how it goes.

I like that one....

 

That could work as well. Perhaps, then, your third suggestion from earlier as a primary.

[JacobLazer]

 

 

I was thinking of a gas cloud (rework of the current spray) as the secondary. We'll see how it goes.

I like that one....

 

That could work as well. Perhaps, then, your third suggestion from earlier as a primary.

 

That sounds like a good idea to me too.

[UngluedBike]

Book marked this thread. Seems very interesting. Keep up the good work.

[JacobLazer]

Does anyone have the full rotation for the Akaku Nuva? I'm trying to make a scopeless version, and all the sheets that I have only have half of it.

[The Legendary TNT]

I think Damaracx already made a scopeless Akaku. It should be somewhere in this topic.

Edited December 5, 2013 by TNT-Vezon with an Olmak

[Toatapio Nuva]

I played the newest version for a long time, doing my best not to die instantly upon spawning on the field. I found some things to comment about.

 

First of all, the game is AWESOME, just so you know. I'm still waiting for a 2-player mode, but even now it's enough to keep you entertained for some hours.

 

The quakebreaker is vastly overpowered. If you hit an enemy with it and keep the attack key pressed, the enemy dies pretty much instantly with no chance to retaliate. It's fun to abuse when you have that weapon, but when an enemy has one... you stand no chance.

 

Also, fragmentation is pretty powerful. It can easily kill you in a couple of hits.

 

It was sometimes even hilarious respawning after a death and then die again after 1 second because a specific type of foe stood on the respawn point.

 

The Onu-Koro map is beautiful in its design, but it gets boring quite fast due to the long distances between respawn points where enemies hide. In other words, enemies are too rare in that map.

 

Sometimes, if you're using a Kakama and you get hit, you get thrown from one end of the map to the other in an instant. A bit weird but nothing serious.

 

All in all, I love this game. Keep it up!

[JacobLazer]

I think Damaracx already made a scopeless Akaku. It should be somewhere in this topic.

No, he made a Matatu.

[Katuko]

I played the newest version for a long time, doing my best not to die instantly upon spawning on the field.

Yeah, biggest issue the game has, maybe. Sometimes you can survive without much trouble, other times you just get owned. The issue mainly lies in that apart from certain powers, you cannot block or dodge or shut down your opponent reliably. You just have to attack and hope they don't Fragmentation blast you into oblivion. Still, I enjoy the sense of panic that occurs when a Rahkshi of Hunger spawns nearby, because that is exactly the emotion I want a Rahkshi of Hunger to instigate.

 

First of all, the game is AWESOME, just so you know. I'm still waiting for a 2-player mode, but even now it's enough to keep you entertained for some hours.

I tried making it possible for two players to use split-screen, but I messed up because I had already locked the engine around single-player settings. I will attempt to integrate split-screen (and joystick/controller input) on the new engine for those who may wish to play with a friend. Network play is annoyingly elusive when it comes to making things work right. The tutorials I find work fine, but when I start modifying the net code to suit my needs I end up breaking things. Still need a bit more EXP here.

 

The quakebreaker is vastly overpowered. If you hit an enemy with it and keep the attack key pressed, the enemy dies pretty much instantly with no chance to retaliate. It's fun to abuse when you have that weapon, but when an enemy has one... you stand no chance.

I plan to make it more of a slow swing weapon, so that I can limit its damage. With the current system it used item HP as "fuel", but I should probably give it recharging ammo to limit it now. That, or I should nerf the damage.

 

Also, fragmentation is pretty powerful. It can easily kill you in a couple of hits.

It's designed to be a pure blasting power, and will likely see more balance once players (and AI) become able to block against it. It will still be one of the best block-breaking powers, but at least it gives people more of a chance if they get hit. Right now you are doomed after the first hit due to the stun.

 

The Onu-Koro map is beautiful in its design, but it gets boring quite fast due to the long distances between respawn points where enemies hide. In other words, enemies are too rare in that map.

I agree. The AI is currently running entirely based on proximity to enemies, so that they have no finer strategies. Therefore they stand still the moment they are alone, and do not search for enemies or retreat to heal. You can see it best when you turn invisible, as they completely ignore everything you do. Improved, state-based AI would still have the AI "alert" and firing powers in the general direction you were headed, so that invisibility would not be an instant get-away.

 

Sometimes, if you're using a Kakama and you get hit, you get thrown from one end of the map to the other in an instant. A bit weird but nothing serious.

If you learn how to exploit it you can zip across the map for no EP cost. I do know the general location of the error, but my movement system makes it a bit hard to fix right now. I am aware of it, so the rewritten engine will use a different coding method for handling speed.

 

No, he made a Matatu.

He did make an Akaku too, actually, but it was the regular and not the Nuva version.

 

 

 

EDIT: My front page is still messed up, I see. I had hoped the BBCode would have righted itself by now, but if it's permanently changed from a forum glitch I will have to look over it. Bah, what a mess.

 

And before I forget: I have a new trailer for this game out, though I feel it could have been better.

 

 

Credit to Jonathan Kaplan for the music, I yanked it since it doesn't seem like any other project have been using it. ;D

Edited December 9, 2013 by Katuko

[Makuta Luroka]

That was spectacular. I really enjoyed watching it even if it could have been better.

[Geardirector]

I see elemental powers can also be color-customized now, that's a nice touch.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Dr. O

[Katuko]

I see elemental powers can also be color-customized now, that's a nice touch.

At the moment only some of them can: Psionics and Laser Vision, off the top of my head. I am a bit torn on whether to allow such things as green fire, but I figure that since I plan to add a setting for "show only canon colors" it won't be a problem if I do. If someone finds green fire to be distracting they can then just turn it back to normal fire on their end.

[Geardirector]

That sounds like a very clever decision, a definite "best of both worlds"

 

Please make all posts in English. -B6

Edited December 9, 2013 by Black Six

[Katuko]

True, some colors do not fit at all, such as pink metal or, well... yellow water.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Katuko

[Geardirector]

Please make all posts in English. -B6

 

Even so, I just like the idea. Even though it's not necessarily a Bionicle thing, just look at lightning: there's practically no limit to what color electricity-powered characters have wielded; Red, Blue, Purple, Green, Yellow, White, Black etc.

 

And of course there's the occasional joke to be made.

 

How about black or brown Psionics powers. Dirty Mind, anyone?

Edited December 9, 2013 by Black Six

[Makuta Luroka]

Good thinking, gentlemen. I agree that there are some combinations best to be avoided.

 

Nei, jeg snakker ikke norsk: Jeg brukte Google Translate.

How accurate would you say that is?

[Katuko]

Good thinking, gentlemen. I agree that there are some combinations best to be avoided.

 

Nei, jeg snakker ikke norsk: Jeg brukte Google Translate.

How accurate would you say that is?

Yeah, it doesn't really matter so much which color energy bursts like plasma have, but certain other combinations would look very strange. Green rocks, for example, or red snow. I guess I'll just keep a glow color setting determining certain effects, while keeping others unchanged. This way, maybe the attack would fade in or glow with a small color streak upon creation, but you wouldn't be able to toss a big clump of fuchsia dirt. That's taking it a bit too far, I think.

 

Also: That sentence is perfectly translated.

[Makuta Luroka]

That sounds good, and if we find any issues with that, I assume we (by "we" I mean "you," of course ) can make any necessary revisions.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Makuta Malignus