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Legolover-361

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:kaukau: Play the character introduction scenes over again and again a million times in your head, and make darn sure you remember to associate them with your character. Then carefully put them all together...Then write the outline again. I don't know if that's good advice. I think that a part of me just gets so used to seeing my stories in a certain way that I don't know how to explain.Anyway, I'm in the process of rewriting a conversation. For some reason, I can write a sequence of actions and a setting, but once dialogue gets involved and a conversation takes place, the organic nature of that tends to get rewritten multiple times as I envision the scene differently every time I try. Eventually I stumble upon something that says to me "Yes! That's perfect!" But it's usually not on the first go.A major thing I do is to read the conversations out loud. It really helps to hear them, I actually always read dialogue out loud, whether it's my work or not.Anyway, how do other people here handle dialogue? It's an interesting subject.Merida
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The way I handle dialogue (and monologues, which I have a tremendous amount of fun with) is just by mulling it over for a while. Usually one line becomes blindingly obvious, and then the rest fall into place within five minutes.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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I tend to just let the dialogue flow. I suppose I'm influenced heavily by real-life conversations, because sometimes the discussions I write tend to veer from their paths, but I can generally nudge them in the right directions. I've never tried starting from the middle or the end; I always start from the beginning and write it sequentially.

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I write dialogue naturally, based on what the characters would or would not say in that particular moment. I try to make it sound as natural and realistic as possible, which occasionally means violating the rules of grammar, since real people don't speak perfect grammar all the time, you know.Of course, I make sure the dialogue is also relevent to the story and scene, but in general allowing it to flow naturally works so much better, at least for me, than forcing the characters to say certain things to make a certain contrived plot point of mine work.-TNTOS-

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

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:kaukau: I am heavy into natural dialogue, and I consider heavily my understanding of the human psyche when writing my dialogue scenes, although one conversation can still go many ways. It's up to me to choose the one that best fits the story and delivers the right impact upon the reader. A constant fear i have is that the reader will get bored of too much dialogue, and conversations can usually take up several pages. It feels to me as if the story stopped for a minute, so my priority is to find a way that the conversation will keep the story moving forward.Merida
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On dialogue, I find that when I'm plotting a scene, dialogue stretches on for minutes, but when I actually go to write it (admittedly, I don't have much experience with the latter) it comes out concise at best and rushed at worst. As for the flow, it just kind of seems to happen - like I said in an earlier post, sometimes I'll find that character gets to the wrong place and I have to back up and subtly change some timing and dialogue so that it gets where I want it to be.My biggest problem while writing? Pronouns in prose. I constantly obsess over whether to use a pronoun or a full name in any given case, and I always run into cases where it seems awkward to use a character's name because I already used it once that sentence, but I'm talking about two characters so if I used "he" it wouldn't be clear who I'm talking about (unless, of course, the other character is a "she")... ugh.I'm probably just overthinking it...

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:kaukau: *whew* I finally got through with the dialogue and finished the prologue to my serial.The funny thing about dialogue is that you want it to sound realistic, but it also has to be used to enhance the story. While I'm all for realism, I'm willing to bend it a little to create the impact I want, and I often attempt to write it so that it sounds very interesting. I take particular inspiration from shows like Smallville, where the writing is a little unrealistic, but nevertheless extremely cool, especially when Lionel Luthor was still in the series. Although I'm not a huge fan of how everyone in Smalleville had similar speech patterns and incredibly lame communication skills, not to mention everyone acted in the exact same way whenever someone kept a secret, because that was what everyone was doing all the time. In my writing I wish to still have that charm that lights up the page, though I definitely go for more diversity. I hope that as I continue to develop as a writer I can include more moments where the dialogue takes on an inconspicuous magical quality that picks up the reader and really carried them along like a pair of wings.So anyway, the prologue will be up next Christmas. I've already made considerable headway on the first chapter.Merida
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Alright, here's a question that's been gnawing away at me for the past few weeks. What positions do you guys take on chapter length? Do you have a certain point (word count/pages) you always try to reach, or do your chapters vary considerably in that department? When I first started writing my story I was trying to make it so that each chapter would only take a few minutes to read so that it would better fit what I perceived to be necessary steps for something on the web. However, I eventually realized that was silly, and although I have amended that situation it still leaves me in a bit of a predicament.I can't seem to find a "good" length for chapters. Almost all of them seem far too short, and the few that don't seem too long. I guess what I'm really hoping is that you guys can share any tips you have on finding that "just right" length.Of course, I could just be over thinking this to an incredible degree and making a big deal out of something that is in truth quite trivial, in which case just say so. :P

Lacertus

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:kaukau: Where I'm currently at I like to define a chapter as "an episode-length segment of a body of work that contributes significantly to the advancement of the story." So to me a chapter might end up 25 pages long in a word document. I just like to make sure that a chapter covers a fair amount of material that ends a certain subplot or plot point within the story, and a lot can go into a plot point.This isn't quite how I think of it, but in a way I could describe a chapter as its own contained story, and I sort of think of the writing process as progressing one chapter at a time.Merida
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I've personally enjoyed just writing as much as I can, and then forming chapters later. Especially if I have a good idea of where I want the story to go.Naturally this means that my chapters vary in length, but each of them has a good hook at the end, and each of them contributes something to the overarching story.-Janus

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I don't worry about chapter length unless I feel that the chapter is too long. Sometimes my chapters are short, sometimes long. It depends entirely on what happens in that chapter and when a good stopping point comes up.-TNTOS-

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

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The Biological Chronicle: (2001) (2002) (2003) (2004) (2005) (2006) (2007) (2008) (2009) (2010)

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I don't usually worry about chapter length either - although I haven't really gotten to the part of writing where it becomes a problem. (That is... the part where you write :P)Although as a reader, I prefer chapters to be a somewhat consistent length - a few 2-page chapters, followed by a chapter that could be a short story all on its own, punishes the "just one more chapter" feeling... because I really want to keep reading, but I don't know if I'm going to hit a landmine chapter and have to keep reading for hours more.

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Although as a reader, I prefer chapters to be a somewhat consistent length - a few 2-page chapters, followed by a chapter that could be a short story all on its own, punishes the "just one more chapter" feeling... because I really want to keep reading, but I don't know if I'm going to hit a landmine chapter and have to keep reading for hours more.
:kaukau: This is a very valid point and part of the reason I prefer to have a certain consistent length for chapters. The "just one more chapter" mentality is a huge part of the way people read books, and that's why I like each chapter to contain a satisfying amount of material that contributes to the story, because if the reader is going to insist on reading "just one more chapter" I might as well pace the chapters in such a way that they're able to actually feel satisfied after the latest chapter. It's good to resolve something with each chapter, or so it goes in my own writing.Merida
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So I saw an interesting blog the other day... I won't say the name because it's not very BZP-appropriate, but the basic idea is that it's a role-playing spoof of The Avengers, and the blog consists of memos from the director, Nick Fury. The humor comes from the deadpan delivery of common-sense policies, as well as the implications of bizarre incidents that could only happen in the Marvel universe.I think that this sort of thing would be a fun exercise for your own universe. Here's a couple I wrote for Eons from a general that I unfortunately have yet to name...

To Whom It May Concern,Whoever has been "educating" our elven visitor in human customs and etiquette needs to either desist or begin to do so accurately. We do not have time to correct these misconceptions during briefing meetings, nor do we have time to release the live birds he may have brought to sacrifice to various cartoon characters.
To Whom It May Concern,This is a reminder that despite his large size, Suveiar does not appreciate being ridden as a steed, nor does he appreciate requests to do so. There are many other valid modes of aerial transportation available, such as civilian airbuses, civilian jets, transport shuttles, and, in the case of Draconians, one's own wings.To clarify that last point: Draconians are strongly discouraged from attempting to ride the Draconian Suveiar while in dragon forms themselves, and are responsible for any injuries they may sustain.
To Whom It May Concern,Those who have been knitting Draconian sweaters as practical jokes are encouraged to report to Research and Development for the Draconian Armor and Wearable Equipment Project for a more constructive application of their talents.On a related note, Draconians who have received said sweaters are not obligated to wear them, unless of course they are truly comfortable. It would not, however, be recommended to follow Private Kelson's advice and set them on fire while in the building. Please conduct any pyrorespiratory activity outdoors.
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Alright, here's a question that's been gnawing away at me for the past few weeks. What positions do you guys take on chapter length? Do you have a certain point (word count/pages) you always try to reach, or do your chapters vary considerably in that department? When I first started writing my story I was trying to make it so that each chapter would only take a few minutes to read so that it would better fit what I perceived to be necessary steps for something on the web. However, I eventually realized that was silly, and although I have amended that situation it still leaves me in a bit of a predicament.I can't seem to find a "good" length for chapters. Almost all of them seem far too short, and the few that don't seem too long. I guess what I'm really hoping is that you guys can share any tips you have on finding that "just right" length.Of course, I could just be over thinking this to an incredible degree and making a big deal out of something that is in truth quite trivial, in which case just say so. :P
It's done when you're done. At least that's how I work--every author's different, obviously. The way I see it, if you try to establish a set number of words or pages or whatever for every piece you write, you lose the whole asset of length to begin with. Brevity gets across great points, and length gets across great points. If a chapter's describing the interaction between the main char and a stranger, you can describe his every thought and guide the chapter with flowery description of the stranger's appearance and personality, the wordier and more graphic approach; or you can get rid of all but dialogue and focus more on what's said, how it's said, and the response to it, letting the words imply a whole lot more than you need to explicitly say.

"I admire your style, which is colorful, if monochromatic."

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:kaukau: I'm highly tempted to write a story where the four main protagonists have the following names:
  • John Charles Smith
  • John Paul Smith
  • John Thomas Smith
  • John William Smith

I just want some reactions to this just so I can get an idea of what type of story these characters would fit in. I'm not thinking comedy, though. The names have a more fairytale quality about them.Merida

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:kaukau: I'm highly tempted to write a story where the four main protagonists have the following names:
  • John Charles Smith
  • John Paul Smith
  • John Thomas Smith
  • John William Smith

I just want some reactions to this just so I can get an idea of what type of story these characters would fit in. I'm not thinking comedy, though. The names have a more fairytale quality about them.Merida

Do any of them hate pears?*pause*Moving on... I would imagine it would be something highly symbolic and abstract - naming coincidences like that don't generally happen in literal literature (that is fun to say). Unless, of course, they were all brought together by their similar names. Maybe J. Charles committed a crime and the police mistakenly arrested J. Paul, which led J. Thomas to lead a protest against name discrimination, and J. William showed up to prove that not all John Smiths are crazy... something like that.

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:kaukau: I'm thinking that whatever the story is, it's going to be one of those things like Superman's tights: in other stories you might wonder what the manly man is doing wearing spandex mized with underpands on the outside and red boots, but it's Superman, so you go with it. I'm not entirely sure if it's something that I want to acknowledge in-story, although I can see it possibly being that these men initially became friends because they were all named John Smith.The story could potentially be abstract, although I think I definitely want the main characters to feel very real. I like the name John Smith because to me it symbolizes the everyman and has the sort of simplicity that I like for main characters. There's something primal about it. I like the name John because it's universal and also personal, the type of name that says "this is a person" instead of "this is a name". And I hope to create characters that feel like people instead of like characters, and every person in the real world is the main character of their own life. That's also why I went with Charles, Paul, Thomas, and William for middle names, since they have this classic and identifiable feel. This is as opposed to a middle name like Damian, which - I dunno - to me is just a word. To me, everybody's more of a John.I've kind of been playing with this idea for a very long time. I believe sometime back in middle school I was playing with the idea of a main character named Joy coming from a school where all the other girls happened to have the same first name. The next time I had the idea, it was with my IDES series where there was a character known only by his surname Monosmith, and his cousin of the same surname also appears later in the story. One of the classic characters of the series marries the first Monosmith, and upon adopting his surname often goes by Monosmith herself when dealing with outsiders. The multiple Monosmiths often use each other when exploiting loopholes in verbal agreements.But anyway, I returned to the concept of multiple characters who by coincidence share the same name. I suppose that initially it would distract the reader, but since it's a detail that would likely be in the synopsis of the story so that they could immediately shift gears to accept the premise so that it doesn't distract too much from the quality story within.Thank you for mentioning the crime scenario. Now I know that it's not a direction where I want to go. Crime stories don't have heart; I think subconsciously I wanted something with heart. I can still see it being possible that they were brought together by their similar names, but I think I'd want that to be part of their preestablished background. From that, where does it sound to you that the story would go?Michael Phelps
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The thing with Superman's tights is that it they're already an established part of the character, and the character came from a medium and an era where things didn't necessarily have to make sense. Same with Mario's occupation as a plumber and fascination with mushrooms. In today's writing, you're not so lucky - you've got to explain things. Even if it's a hand-wavy explanation, it's better than having nothing, which would distract the reader.But I could see something simpler if you want the characters to already know each other at the beginning of the story. Maybe at their school during childhood, there were a ton of John Smiths, and it became something of an inside joke, to the point where they started a "John Smith Club". Other John Smiths came and went, but these four in particular stuck together, even into the present day. I actually really like that because it's relatable; in any given group, there's usually more than one person with the same first name, at least, and when another one shows up, you think "there are so many Garretts!" - even though there's only three in a group of a hundred.Of course, I've been ignoring the more pressing question of "what are four people with the same name actually going to do for a whole book?" - mostly because I have no clue. You mentioned you didn't want a comedy, although I'd imagine a good amount of humor would fit the mood. Is this set in the IDES universe? If so, what kind of crazy sci-fi scenario can they wind up in? If it's not a crazy sci-fi scenario... well... that's outside my genre XD

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:kaukau: I see it this way: You read the synopsis and think "Alright, it's fiction. There had to be something interesting in the pitch that's unlikely to happen in real life. Now let's see what sort of story comes out of this." And it's not really quite as random as ttights with boots and plumbers eating mushrooms. In some ways the reader should be familiar with the concept. After all, John Smith is supposedly one of the most common names out there, so it would make sense that somewhere in the world there are multiple John Smiths in one group.It's outside of the IDES universe. And it's not part of Four-I's. It's actually pretty different from them both in that all the characters are male, whereas in my othe works half the characters are female and are often the main character. Well, in Four-I's there are three males and a female, but I figured that the female character would as the main character most of the time so that it wasn't necessarily a duck-duck-goose scenario but a "The main character is special in a way that the other characters aren't special in".Anyway, I'm thinking of this not being sci-fi, set more in the modern day. I see these characters as people who have known each other for a long time and are still best friends. They not only know each other, but they get each other. I also think that when speaking of each other they go by middle names, but when talking to each other they call each other John.There's also something about Four-I's that I think made it into here in the sense that I feel these are people who might have been college roommates or study buddies (as I often imagine Ian, Ivan, Ike, and Io), although I think that subconscious notion actually came from A Beautiful Mind, where the two roommates at the beginning were John and Charles. If you ignore the truth you eventually find out about Charles, he's a guy who's way different than John Nash but really understands him, and John in turn has a strong bond with Charles that lasts after college. Perhaps it was because of their names, but there was something really mature about them, and even without any testosterone-driven scenes I thought that the two were manly. What if there were four guys?Then I have to wonder at what stage they are in their lives. Are they all married? Will any of them marry within the running of the story? Depending on the time frame, I could. The more I think about it, the more I keep on imagining a story like A Beautiful Mind. Not necessarily the same plot, but a lot of the same mood and a story that takes place over a sizeable chunk of the Smiths' lives. Edited by Michael Phelps
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So I've hit a huge roadblock in Eons: Heartbeat. It takes place in a small village (it's actually a little more complicated than that)... but I don't know all the people that live there. In my first attempt at starting to write it, I quickly ran into a wall where I needed a few character names on the spot. A few days later, I realized I completely neglected family dynamics and left each character in an independent bubble.This is a lot of names that I have to come up with (I hate naming characters), and most of them will either be background characters or dead within the first few chapters. Are there any tricks to limiting the amount of characters I write about in a crowded setting?Also, I'm having a hard time nailing the culture for this village, so I could use some of your guys' help on this. Be forewarned: huge rambling descriptions inbound.This story takes place just a few years before Book 1a of Eons - that's ancient-era, for lack of a better description. It's set on the Velera peninsula, an important location in Eons. Right now, the dominant species of Velera is the Draconian race (sentient smallish dragons - maybe horse-sized, I'd say? A little bit smaller even than that). They're referred to as dragons throughout Heartbeat because their actual nature isn't revealed until Book 1a.Draconians divide themselves into clans - Book 1a is focused on the Seia clan, while Heartbeat shows more of the Tairge. The culture of these clans isn't really relevant to this story and the particular problem I'm having, so I'll just say that they fight a lot and it's not uncommon for a clan to split into two, or for one to die out entirely at the hands (claws?) of a rival clan.Draconians also keep human slaves. Although dragons aren't exactly the type that share well, people belonging to a clan's dragons tend to stick together as a community. And this is the part where I get stuck defining the culture. Here are a few facts I've decided on:

  • Humans don't have a whole lot of abilities that benefit a Draconian-dominated society, so even though they're slaves, they have a bit more freedom than you might expect. Maybe "property" is a better way to describe them.
  • Though they have a bit of freedom, the people are often oppressed and mistreated simply because they're there.
  • They're mostly vegetarian - dragons eat all the game in the area.
  • They live in tents. They're quick to set up (dragons sometimes trade humans for various reasons) and easy to replace (the peninsula is populated by fire-breathing creatures, so they do not want to put much effort into their shelters)
  • Their technology is very primitive, largely due to the aforementioned flammability hazard. I would say they have access to some metals - I've been toying with the idea of human miners living on the fringes of Velera's mountains, who aren't owned by any dragons but are kind of crazy and isolated.

And that's all I've got. What might their day look like? What do their families like? Do they constantly contemplate freedom, or do they mostly accept their status as property as the way life is?

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy

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For the village, just organize the village itself, like you're preparing to do a report-with-census on the village. Population, name and function of each villager, maybe a map of it, everything you need to visualize what's going on there.Then, decide which handful of the people there are actually going to feature in the story. The most you're going to use the information you just dredged up, barring what actually is important to the story, is conversation fodder between characters. Writers who place a value on just writing and getting done might think it wasteful, but I like world-building at least as much as I like actually writing stories.For the humans, is this sort of a medieval-style fantasy setting, in terms of the technology they have access to? If so, malnutrition is going to be an issue, and even without that, I wouldn't expect many of them to live past forty. Keep that in mind when you're writing your story.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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Re: Names: The best method I've found for creating a bunch of fantasy names is to look up names/words in other languages (Dead languages like Old English are good for this.), using one or two sources for each culture, to keep things consistent. It's easier then creating a whole new language for every story you write.

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Mm. I like making languages, but I know when I created the Diemawr for the Starscape RPG (don't laugh, I start a lot of things in COT-RPGs. The Diemawr in particular proved good enough to actually be the start of a proper story) I just ripped Welsh off wholesale.The issue is that building continents takes a long time, but it doesn't take half as long as building a language. You've got phonetics, sentence structure, synonyms, and a lot more stuff to worry about. Biggest thing to worry about with a continent is which way the prevailing winds are blowing.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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For the village, just organize the village itself, like you're preparing to do a report-with-census on the village. Population, name and function of each villager, maybe a map of it, everything you need to visualize what's going on there.Then, decide which handful of the people there are actually going to feature in the story. The most you're going to use the information you just dredged up, barring what actually is important to the story, is conversation fodder between characters. Writers who place a value on just writing and getting done might think it wasteful, but I like world-building at least as much as I like actually writing stories.
I was afraid you'd say that :| Although we might have different focuses in worldbuilding. I like to build up the rules, the physics, and the culture of a world - the interactions between things rather than the things themselves. For example, I haven't written any languages for the world, nor do I intend to, but I know a couple of translation quirks that lead to awkward situations. I haven't drawn any maps (although I know I should - but ugh. I have planets in some books...), but I know that the Velera peninsula is cut off from the mainland by a large mountain range to the north.One of the reasons I do this is because my history, sociology, and geography aren't very strong. I'm a programmer for a living :). If I attempt to fill in details like "which way the prevailing winds are blowing", I'm going to get them wrong and make my world unrealistic in the bad way - the kind that tries to be realistic but fails. (See a certain episode of Doctor Who: "This planet is orbiting a black hole, but it's not getting sucked in! IMPOSSIBLE!" *facepalm*) If I'm going to be unrealistic, it's better to do it unapologetically. It's my world and I can do what I want, and I don't care that the physics of our world don't support the things that happen in mine.Maybe I'll stick with my conceptual style, which inspires my creativity more than hardcore worldbuilding, and make up the details as I need them. I'll come up with a long list of names for each culture (thanks for the tips, BenLuke) that I can pull from as needed so I'm not constantly blocked by that. The hardest part will be keeping track of the details and not contradicting myself.
For the humans, is this sort of a medieval-style fantasy setting, in terms of the technology they have access to? If so, malnutrition is going to be an issue, and even without that, I wouldn't expect many of them to live past forty. Keep that in mind when you're writing your story.
Ehhhh... medieval for lack of a better word. I prefer "ancient fantasy" to describe Eons (a-series, at least... b-series is sci-fi) because there really aren't a lot of traditional medieval elements like castles, kings, knights, etc. In this particular story, like I said, the humans' technology is stunted because of their enslavement to the dragons, so it's even more primitive than medieval. I think for the most part, blacksmithing is the most advanced thing they do unless a dragon gives them a large project (i.e. there's a large stone building under construction in Heartbeat, which will serve as a shelter to a dragon that thinks caves are too mainstream :), and that's mostly inspired by Roman architecture.)Regarding malnutrition and health, I tend to steer clear of heavy realism like that, like I mentioned above. However, in this case it makes a lot of sense for an oppressed people to have a short lifespan. I'll definitely keep that mind as I write - fortunately most of my characters were fairly young already.Plus, shorter life expectancy means that I don't have to name many elders....I'm an evil author :P

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JKK--You sound like the kind of author who's minimalistic (read: lazy) and only writes what they enjoy. Which is a fantastic writing style, because it means your book probably has little to no lulls and consistent thrill, as well as a likely incredibly elaborate plot and char development. You already sound like you're having way too much fun with worldbuilding, and have integrated it with the plot rather well as opposed to just rambling on about locations for chapters.So, props on that, but back to the point--to fit your style, it's really totally unnecessary to name every char from the village. You'd probably work best just envisioning the village, getting a mental picture of what it actually looks like, so that you can grant the image a more graphic life when you write about it. The opposite and ineffective approach would be what you're doing now, which is waiting until info on the village is required of you and then spitting out info at random intervals that doesn't correlate with other info you have. But, you don't need to mention names until you need to mention names--as long as you have the culture and the family dynamic well-discussed within the book and interacted with by the main char(s), the reader will have a vivid enough image of the village. An intricate profile for each villager is helpful, but due to the extreme tediousness probably more painful to your writing hand and head than it is an aid to the book. It's extraneous.Speaking of culture, I find it helpful, like YT hinted at, to ripping off existing cultures. I prefer a more indirect route--like, if you have any trace of a language, the accent and consonance could be a more fluid, French sounding kinda thing, or a harsher Middle-Eastern style. The basics of culture are this, more or less: religion, location, demographic background. Once you decide those three things, details work themselves out. Is your culture monotheist, or polytheist? The former probably results in a more unified and possibly more religiously fanatical tribe, while the second can spur controversy or even civil war within the tribe. Is the tribe in desert territory or tundra, and are they urban or rural? Basic, ten-second junk like that will lend itself to further elaboration at your will, and you fill in the blanks.I feel like we have similar writing styles, judging by the two posts I've seen, so lemme know if you need any help, sounds like you've got an interesting idea!EDIT: By the way, when writing a full-length novel, unless you feel like being interesting at the expense of relevant info, you pretty much never have to come up with every detail of a language or physics or other junk like that used by chars. If they're commonly used by the population, why would some guy go on an unprompted soliloquy explaining why the winds blow in weird directions or why the pronunciation of the language is such and such? If you don't provide more explanation that the basic amount required, it'll provide the illusion of commonness and suspend the reader's disbelief quite well.

Edited by Riisiing Moon

"I admire your style, which is colorful, if monochromatic."

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With my worldbuilding, the laws of physics rarely, if ever, deviate from the real world in ways that aren't obvious, so that isn't an issue. I also find that continents tend to have a huge effect on the cultures that develop on them, so I need to make those first, but ocean currents affect continental climates, so I usually just have fun with it, make a whole planet, and from there prevailing winds are all a matter of latitude. Once you've got the prevailing winds figured out, you've got rain shadows on mountain ranges, so you know where the deserts are, where the forests are, all the fun stuff.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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JKK--You sound like the kind of author who's minimalistic (read: lazy) and only writes what they enjoy. Which is a fantastic writing style, because it means your book probably has little to no lulls and consistent thrill, as well as a likely incredibly elaborate plot and char development. You already sound like you're having way too much fun with worldbuilding, and have integrated it with the plot rather well as opposed to just rambling on about locations for chapters.
Yeah, that's basically exactly it. Thanks for the validation - I was getting worried there that I wasn't detail-oriented enough to write a good story. Obviously, it'll be a different kind of story, but it can be done.
Speaking of culture, I find it helpful, like YT hinted at, to ripping off existing cultures. I prefer a more indirect route--like, if you have any trace of a language, the accent and consonance could be a more fluid, French sounding kinda thing, or a harsher Middle-Eastern style. The basics of culture are this, more or less: religion, location, demographic background. Once you decide those three things, details work themselves out. Is your culture monotheist, or polytheist? The former probably results in a more unified and possibly more religiously fanatical tribe, while the second can spur controversy or even civil war within the tribe. Is the tribe in desert territory or tundra, and are they urban or rural? Basic, ten-second junk like that will lend itself to further elaboration at your will, and you fill in the blanks.I feel like we have similar writing styles, judging by the two posts I've seen, so lemme know if you need any help, sounds like you've got an interesting idea!
Hmmm... religion is difficult for me. I'm a religious person myself, so anything I write about religion in a fantasy world feels blasphemous :P I would say probably passively monotheistic and leave it at that.Location - well, Ymper might be able to help out here, you seem really smart with geography. For a peninsula that's cut off from the mainland by a large mountain range - what kind of climate are we talking about here? I personally see it as primarily forested with a few plains - but I've lived in a desert in my whole life, so I tend to see anything that isn't a desert as a forest. :PNot sure what you mean by demographics - it's a fantasy world so there's no obvious nationalities to work with.
Here's a summary of a novel that I haven't started writing yet, but have got much more detail on than that entry describes. Thoughts/criticism/questions?
DO WANT. I kind of wish you hadn't revealed in the summary that the main character dies, though :P Specifically, the hidden-world is always a good concept to start with, and the Mist in particular is particularly interesting to me and I want to find out more.My only criticism is that... *reads again*... nope I got nothing. A thought... I got a bit of a western-fantasy vibe from Aufaire, and I kept hearing the Bastion narrator's voice in my head. Am I way off on this or is that what you were going for? Either way it sounds like a really interesting world.

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Oh, Drawa's killed about four sevenths of the way into the book (measure everything in sevenths, it's so helpful, I swear), and it's meant to be a huge surprise, but it's also not so radical to reveal since it's not the ending or anything. He's replaced by the apprentice skeleton with a soul.I've sculpted Aufaire pretty intricately in my mind, and I've gotta put it to paper and elaborate some more--the fantasy vibe is LOTR-esque, with the absence of non-human creatures, save for skeletons, which are technically human. The culture is gonna be kind of widespread--each of the four kings (excluding the Hu-Kale, of course) rules their respective kingdoms, and each kingdom's culture is determined largely by its king. For example, Tu-Sens, the Island King (ruler of the islands scattered throughout Aufaire) is a more diplomatic ruler, so his armies are generally well-trained but refrain from combat, which prompts contempt from Jek, more rash and tactical ruler of the Southern Badlands. The desert north of the Inland, it should be noted, is directly south of Jek's territory and is the only Aufaire territory under no man's land since it's completely inhabitable.No idea what Bastion is, lawlz, but I plan on mixing a good amount of culture in. Tu-Sens's kingdom takes on a more Eastern vibe, while Jek's got the whole cowboy thing going for him, and Arolla, Magicker Queen of the West, is a more religiously and philosophically oriented ruler whose culture will probably be entirely made up by me.

"I admire your style, which is colorful, if monochromatic."

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Location - well, Ymper might be able to help out here, you seem really smart with geography. For a peninsula that's cut off from the mainland by a large mountain range - what kind of climate are we talking about here? I personally see it as primarily forested with a few plains - but I've lived in a desert in my whole life, so I tend to see anything that isn't a desert as a forest. :P
Well, what sort of landforms are on the peninsula? Is it north, south, east or west of the mainland? What latitude would you say it's at? Does it protrude into a sea, or an ocean? How long has the area been the way it is, in terms of geography? If it's protruding into an ocean, which side of the ocean is it on (east or west)?Geography and climate affect each other, which affects geology, which affects geography down the road.Of course, I could solve your problem much more simply (for you) with a map, but a lot of writers aren't very keen cartographers.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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[questions]Of course, I could solve your problem much more simply (for you) with a map, but a lot of writers aren't very keen cartographers.
Well, what sort of landforms are on the peninsula?Um... I would say it's fairly mountainous. I always seem to see dragons living around mountains. Probably a few rivers (do those count as landforms?) for freshwater.Is it north, south, east or west of the mainland?I always saw it as south, but I'm not attached to that.What latitude would you say it's at?I have no earthly (err... Tellurly) idea.Does it protrude into a sea, or an ocean?...aren't they the same thing? :notsure: (Like I said, I've lived in a desert most of my life :P large bodies of water do not compute)I guess a sea is smaller, right? Probably a sea, then.How long has the area been the way it is, in terms of geography?At least a thousand years - that's the earliest it appears in my backstory and it was about the same as it is now. If you're talking on a scale of millions of years, then I have no idea nor inclination to care in the slightest.If it's protruding into an ocean, which side of the ocean is it on (east or west)?As far as I'm concerned at the moment, this peninsula is the only thing that exists on the planet. (besides the mainland, obviously, which in my mind is currently a giant lump of a continent) I haven't even begun to consider what else might be around.In short, I don't have a clue for half of what you just asked XD. I guess I'll go back to my old strategy of making things up....And are you permanently stuck at 13 posts? I could've sworn that was your count a few posts ago... Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy

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COT posts don't contribute to the post-count. I never post outside of COT.The difference between an ocean and a sea is that a sea is much smaller, and usually surrounded by land to a greater degree. There are seven seas on Earth, and four oceans.Since the peninsula is to the south of the main continent, it's fairly unlikely that it would be completely desert, though the mountains could pose an interesting problem.What climatic band would you say the peninsula is in - i.e, polar, temperate, sub-tropical, tropical? That should tell me what I need to know about the latitude, which can determine prevailing winds.What source do the rivers have? Do they come from up in the mountains, and are fed by rain and melted snow, do they come from further north in the continent, are they perhaps glacial rivers, etc.What type of rivers are they? Do they have a high gradient (flowing down from the mountains) or a low gradient, are they flowing fast or slow, do they have a lot of tributaries, and do they form river deltas and/or floodplains at some point?Is the peninsula north or south of the equator?

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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The difference between an ocean and a sea is that a sea is much smaller, and usually surrounded by land to a greater degree. There are seven seas on Earth, and four oceans.Yeah, it's a sea, then. Most of the land surrounding the sea is uninhabitable, though - it's mostly composed of jagged rocks and cliffs with no flat place.What climatic band would you say the peninsula is in - i.e, polar, temperate, sub-tropical, tropical? That should tell me what I need to know about the latitude, which can determine prevailing winds.Well, definitely not polar. As for the others, I don't know. Sub-tropical might work.What source do the rivers have? Do they come from up in the mountains, and are fed by rain and melted snow, do they come from further north in the continent, are they perhaps glacial rivers, etc.Yeah, I'm gonna say they come from the mountains. The mountains are pretty steep, too, which means I get waterfalls :D I don't think any of the rivers come from up north - I can't think of any ways that the water would get past the mountain.What type of rivers are they? Do they have a high gradient (flowing down from the mountains) or a low gradient, are they flowing fast or slow, do they have a lot of tributaries, and do they form river deltas and/or floodplains at some point?Let's see, probably high gradient since they're coming from the mountains. That would make them flow pretty quickly, right? Not sure about tributaries or floodplains (desert man!)... but deltas seem like a nice addition.For me, plot comes before climate and geography, so it might be good to list a few things that the Velera peninsula needs:

  • The peninsula is cut off from the mainland in such a way that it's physically impossible for most creatures to cross to or from it - even flying dragons.
  • It is extremely difficult - I wouldn't say impossible - to get from the surrounding sea to any other inhabitable place on the planet.
  • There are several large islands in the sea where other human "nations" live. They're too far away for a dragon to fly to, but sailing is no problem.

The most important part: not all of this is natural - in the backstory, there are several elves who are very powerful with magic and are deeply committed to containing the dragons to the peninsula for any foreseeable future - they're very smart and have taken steps to not only prevent any dragons from leaving, but prevent any other beings from getting in. So I take back what I said about the geography being the same for all of known history. Certain terrain features may only be a couple hundred years old, yet fully formed.That said, I'm not sure exactly which terrain features are natural and which are artificial - only that they all look natural, save for their suspicious placement.Another quick fact that might be important to you: there's a good amount of artificial rain that occurs in the area at certain times. The backstory there is that an elf observing the Draconians got tired of them causing massive wildfires, so he did his elven-magic thing and set up a sort of atmospheric trigger that starts a heavy rainstorm when smoke reaches a certain concentration. Assume that the artificial storm sucks in moisture from the surrounding area if there's not enough to cause a downpour.

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Okay, that tells me that the peninsula is on a different tectonic plate from the mainland, and that the two plates collided, producing a mountain range rather like the Himalayas - probably about as recently, too, as the mountains haven't been eroded like, say, the Appalachian mountains. These mountains would certainly have snow on top of them, and may even have glaciers on them.If this is sub-tropical, then that means you're dealing with the trade winds for prevailing winds, which means east-to-west winds, which means that the western face of any given mountain will be dryer than the eastern face.The climate of the mountains themselves depends on the height of the mountains. The lower slopes - especially the eastern faces - are likely to be very heavily forested, but not a temperate sort of forest - think more like the sort of thing you might find in the wetter areas of south-east Asia. Higher up, it's going to get colder, with small, tough vegetation - rhododendron, scrubby conifers, that sort of thing. Once you get into the alpine zone - above the treeline - all of that is going to give way to grass and alpine tundra.The flatter areas of the peninsula along the course of the rivers is definitely going to be heavily forested and may be prone to flooding. The river deltas near the southern tip of the peninsula are going to have, most likely, the best farmland, but the closer you get to the coast, the saltier the soil is. Expect mangrove swamps at the edges of the deltas.As for climate, there may well be a wet and dry season, instead of the four we are familiar with. In the wet season, the peninsula may experience something like the monsoon rainy season in India, while the dry season would be when the rivers are fed more by meltwater than rain.

We will remember - Skies may fade and stars may wane; we won't forget


And your light shines bright - yes so much brighter shine on


We will remember - Until the skies will fall we won't forget


We will remember


We all shall follow doom

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Wow, thanks for the help. Most of that went way over my head but I'll save it in my notes for reference.@Riisiing Moon: So Drawa wakes up in the region with the "cowboy thing"? That's probably where I got the western vibe. I'm surprised that you managed to convey that without actually mentioning it :PSo when Drawa decides to revive those skeletons, I assumed that they were the skeletons of his friends that died, which caused his frustration in the first place, which would be an interesting depth to the story. But then I realized that they wouldn't be skeletons that soon... unless you meant "corpse"?Back on the depth, I could see Drawa losing it when the last person he's travelling with dies, prompting him to, without thinking, try to bring them back to life (defying and cursing Death). When it only partially succeeds, he might struggle with the fact that these aren't really his friends - just their reanimated bodies, and in the case of Mr. Kamesh, a whole new person.I also see Aufaire as fairly dark - both thematically and literally. Does the Mist block the sun partially? (All of Aufaire is in the bottom of the canyon, right? Or does it expand out elsewhere?) An eerie purple glow seems to suit the place nicely.BTW, Bastion is a video game for PC with awesome narration and story. If you're a gamer at all, you should check out the demo. Your world really does remind me a bit of Bastion's for some reason, and it would be probably be a good mood/thematic inspiration.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy

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Just wondering, have you people ever written a scene in a story one day intended for film or TV which includes an unoriginal song as the soundtack?In the sequel film to Charlie Rene and Ellie Hawkins, there is a sexual scene. I hope the soundtrack over this scene to be some parts of 'Off To The Races' by Lana Del Rey. And again in the third film, in the final epilogue scene, they share one of those moment thingys after putting their newborn baby Carys to sleep, and I imagine the soundtrack to be 'Voyager' by Mike Oldfield.Also, for one of my older Fantasy series Tales of Mystica, I am considering 'Gorecki' by Lamb to be the opening and closing song for the film adaptation. But I'm not sure, as a totally depressing, serious and epic atmosphere may not be entirely what I want for it.And for my latest animation project titled "The Spirit Wings", following a millitary base in Tibet as they prepare for whatever supposedly awaits them on December 21st 2012, I've chosen Lana Del Rey's 'Born To Die'.So what about you sirs and madames?P.S. New updated list of characters, now up to 125! Post yours if you haven't already or can suddenly be bothered ^.^1. The Scruby Slugs2. Baldy Bignose3. Overreactive Tony4. Artistic Dean5. Stig6. Rex7. Cutter8. The Soldier Ants9. Eccentric Softdrinks Hero10. The Scruby Worms11. D.A. Quackers12. The Stickmen13. Krochus14. Takree15. Xeek16. Zikius17. Thi18. Carter the Crab19. Foxx the Pelican20. Ulmshneider the Snail21. Kennedy the Fish22. Lily Harwood23. Joseph S. Hutton24. Jude the Spider25. Dr. Devious26. The Cacti27. Zeta-Man28. GRAPHIX29. Ben Phillips30. Tweekman31. Trevor Niles32. Erasmus Sponge33. Oscar Mack34. Mr. Burton35. Tahli de Ohbi-Nai36. Quah'lh de Jhen37. The Shia-Ban38. Elizebeth de Mahja39. Ardipithecus de Mahja40. Thomas Mitchell41. Sakui42. Araach43. The Haatya44. Raakhman45. Jimmy Stratt46. Denovan Arthur47. Hymerae48. Camille Walters49. Polyvita50. Peter MacArthur51. Geotak52. The Brotherhood of Akitsym53. I'rn54. The Cult of Fire55. Fosk56. Antagonax57. Tsakaku58. Onsym59. Hebis de Mahja60. The Neohuman61. FAX62. The Trijol63. The Anti-Trijol64. Amelie Mitchell65. Liho66. Kaami67. Galeo68. Ignis69. Guatis70. Crakhnis71. Buhlis72. Shinchis73. Pahklis74. Icomis75. Daennis76. Gaennis77. Trothis78. Ceratonis79. Sir Chester Court80. Captain Fishbreath81. Professor Fly82. Luigi83. 10184. Doris the Milkcow85. The King of Spades86. The Queen of Diamonds87. Forsberg88. Sir Fiddlesworth89. Mrs. Hollingberry90. Robin the Saucy Baker91. Gregg the Saucy Baker92. Green Chotobot93. Purple Chotobot94. Den95. Ayame96. Ryu97. Commander98. Her99. Project Jet100. Tea the Lizard101. Charlie René102. Ellie Hawkins103. The Shade104. Odym105. Madame Osri106. Sheldon Watson107. Dronebot108. T-148109. IRIS110. Boris Toenail111. Crabby MacSnips112. Billy Sharkton113. The Carrimata114. Paul White115. The Winged Spirit116. Celso Mitchell117. Nakumi118. Dehlin Opri119. The God Students120. The General121. Terri Hawkins122. Carren René123. David René124. Chris Newman125. Carys Hawkins-René

Gee golly, I sure do love Bionicles! My favourite one is Hero Factory!

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:kaukau: I just bought Fractal Terrains 3, which should allow me to come up with some pretty awesome maps. Although it still has yet to come in the mail. Something is wrong here, because it's been 8 days since I ordered and I'll be leaving town for college tomorrow, and shipping takes 5-14 days. If it doesn't come in tomorrow it might be a long while before I see my order.On another note, I've decided to start a notebook where I will write down every sci-fi ideas for technology that I think fit into my universe, from the regular day-in-day-out stuff to the more classified stuff. For a story that takes place millions of years in the future, I'll have to consider a ton of things, so this is an element of my worldbuilding that I really have to develop.
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Just wondering, have you people ever written a scene in a story one day intended for film or TV which includes an unoriginal song as the soundtack?....So what about you sirs and madames?
Well, I pretty much write pure fantasy worlds, so in the context of that world, no songs exist that would be "unoriginal" by our standards. Even if the song is just background music, I don't think that well-known songs with lyrics fit in my story very well.Regarding movie/TV, while I would love to see my vision adapted into a visual format in the future, I don't have high expectations; both because I'm only an amateur author, and because Eons would be really, really hard to adapt to a movie and do it well. The main issue is the Draconians - you've got human characters who shapeshift into dragons and have to be both recognizable and relateable in that form.
:kaukau: I just bought Fractal Terrains 3, which should allow me to come up with some pretty awesome maps. Although it still has yet to come in the mail. Something is wrong here, because it's been 8 days since I ordered and I'll be leaving town for college tomorrow, and shipping takes 5-14 days. If it doesn't come in tomorrow it might be a long while before I see my order.
...you're waiting for software... in the mail? ...In 2012? :lol: I searched for that software, though, and it looks really cool. In fact, the developers' site is packed with awesome-looking worldbuilding software. If I ever start to write more seriously than I am now, I'm going to have to give this stuff a second look. As it is, I might have to see how far I can get with the demo versions.
On another note, I've decided to start a notebook where I will write down every sci-fi ideas for technology that I think fit into my universe, from the regular day-in-day-out stuff to the more classified stuff. For a story that takes place millions of years in the future, I'll have to consider a ton of things, so this is an element of my worldbuilding that I really have to develop.
Millions of years in the future? Are you sure about that? That seems... very long. I considered the timeline for my own series and I've been working with only 3000 years between medieval-era technology and mainstream space travel with heavy colonization. (To be fair, though, they do discover a powerful renewable fuel source before they even discover electricity, so they have a bit of an advantage over Earth)Some of the comparisons I used to come up with that number:
  • Obviously, our calendar starts roughly two thousand and twelve years ago (certain calendar quirks mess up that number slightly).
  • Human history as we know it, if I remember correctly, is not much longer than 10,000 years. (feel free to correct me on that one - I'm only about 40% confident)
  • The medieval era was roughly 600 years ago - somebody from that era would have no ability to comprehend modern technology.
  • The Industrial Revolution was a little over 200 years ago - look at how far technology has come since the first engines.
  • The United States was founded at around the same time - nobody is alive today who remembers its founding, or even heard about it second-hand.
  • A less serious comparison: BIONICLE's backstory takes place over 100,000 years and I personally think that's absurdly long, especially if you consider that the Great Cataclysm was a only a thousand years before the main story arc, which covers about a year.

This is one area where, for some reason, I try to be somewhat realistic.

Edited by Jedi Knight Krazy

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