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Legolover-361

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I find an effective writing technique is to use verbs creatively to better "paint an image" in the reader's mind. Adjectives are effective, as well, but the trick is to use verbs similarly. As an example, take this sentence:

The sunlight shined through my bedroom window, creating a square of light on my floor.

Now if I take that sentence, replace the main verbs, and tweak it a little to match, I get:

The sunlight stabbed through my bedroom window, casting a sharp square of light on my floor.

See how it creates a much more specific image? In the first sentence you see sunlight; in the second, you see a very sharp sunlight, perhaps as someone barely awake would see it. Alternatively I could have written:

The sunlight wafted through my bedroom window, casting a hazy square of light onto my floor.

That gives a much gentler feel: The sunlight wafts through the bedroom window, not stabs. This scene might take place in early- to mid-afternoon, when the light doesn't seem as intense.

Depending on the reader, yes. But generally, most readers would respond the same way. I mean, if I wrote about eating a baby in exquisitely grotesque detail, most people would go 'ewww, that's sick!' If you're a writer who writes for other people as much as you write for yourself, the trick is to touch said response. Sorta like what Legolover did with his examples. Both of them describe the same scene, though one brings to mind me waking up because I have to go to school, whereas the other is reminiscent of 'lazy sunday afternoon rargh I want to nap'. Good examples, these.

I've learned something today. Thanks!

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:kaukau:Let me see, the way it works is...

So the basic pitch through most of the story is that our guys (that's what I call the protagonists in my head) fall into the clutches of an alien race called the nuadine. They are forced into slavery on a ringworld that I imagine having a twisted structure that gives the same impression that the Narada gave when it first appeared in the recent Star Trek. Anyway, the place is called Quarr and parts of the place are organic. Nixon and Gertrude escape and have a bit of a story of their own. They should probably be even more eminent characters so that it doesn't feel like the secondary characters died, but ah well. Anyway, on to the characters who supposedly died. Brutus is 18 years old and for the last year he's been conscious about growing up and fulfuling the rite of passage that made him a man. On the ringworld, he refuses to accept slavery, although he's more levelheaded and willing to compromise than another character named Laryn, who dies for being unruly. During night shifts, when put to rest after a day's work, the slaves are put into sedation tanks, but he sabotages one and is able to wander around freely during this time. When he's free from the observations of his nuadine master Molgog, he works out so he can be physically competitive in the intense gravity of the ringworld (twice as heavy as Earth gravity) and begins searching for some of the other characters, who were put under other masters. Michael's story is very closely tired to Brutus's. Michael tried escaping when they were first captured but had his eyes burned out. He was taken to a lab where Craytus arrives in person to give him a surgery. Michael's spine is removed and replaced with a cyborg spine that glows red under his skin. It sends messages of pain to his brain 53 times greater than a human can neurologically conceive. After this initial incident, Michael ends up hating the nuadine more than his actual conditions of slavery. The benefits of this treatment is that even though his eye sockets are empty, he can see through other people's eyes who are within his range and he has also had the nuadine language downloaded into him. He is paired with Brutus and a couple of other characters (although I'm only focusing on these two). Brutus and Michael develop a brotherly relationship. Michael is broken free of sedation as well and wanders the passages of the ringworld even more than Brutus. They eventually find the other characters and so forth, and they form an underground network. Since Brutus really started the whole thing, he's seen as the John Conner of the whole operation. While looking for some more members of the original group of "our guys", Michael gets sidetracked and sees Craytus. He follows the villain to a ship but is ultimately caught. Craytus shows Michael a group of occult followers have given their souls to him, doing disturbing practices of firedancing in his honor, then tells Michael that this is his destiny. Michael refuses to believe it, and then, strangely enough, is let go. Brutus initially does not plan on actually escaping, but on merely alleviating the pains of the other alien slaves. However, one day he is discovered by Molgog, his master, while organizing various other slaves, with Michael as the translator. Molgog decides to punish Brutus in front of everyone, but Brutus overpowers Molgog and pins him down to the floor. Molgog, seeing Brutus's slave number branded onto his hand, says "Who do you think you are, number 53?" To which Brutus replies "MY NAME IS BRUTUS!" Because, you know, it's awesome when a character can have a moment where just them declaring their name is quotable. This of course sets many slaves into cheering. Molgog is blackmailed into helping them with their underground operation and Brutus's position as a leader is made absolute, even though he never asked for it. The character Monosmith was secretly hoping for that to happen. For the first time, Brutus dares to think that they can escape. Michael, meanwhile, is secretly withdrawing from Brutus. Although he is still with him, Michael has Craytus on his mind and is more concerned with finding a way to extract revenge. Now that Brutus has a full-blown following of true believers, Michael feels that he isn't quite as needed. If they have a new hope, good for them. Michael feels that his problems are more real. He secretly plans with another character, Sualls, who also has a secret following and a grudge against Craytus. As people find inspiration in Brutus, a plan for escape with the the special help of Molgog arises. Michael, however, plans on sabotaging this mission, for he has reason to believe that Craytus would get involved and Michael could meet him personally, this time with a weapon. He tells his older sister Nixon (who by now his been discovered in a "secret annexe" which was then put to use for sheltering ill slaves). Nixon tells Brutus. Even though Brutus now knows of Michael's plan, he chooses to believe in the best in Michael. The day of the rebellion comes. Michael betrays them. Nobody in the invasion except for Brutus knew it was him, It was all in vain. Brutus is captured. Everyone else is returned to slavery. Michael is freed by Gertrude, Brutus's younger sister, who had not been in the invasion. She kind of likes him. He's too blinded by his other feelings to see that. Sure, he thanks her, but goes on his own way. Other slaves are freed and sent to the secret annexe to hide out indefinitely. Michael cannot come with because his red spine also has a tracking device ad has to constantly be on the move. He finds Sualls, who did not participate in the escape, and joins her roaming nomad clan of followers. People like Brutus. Monosmith and Buzzy believe that another escape is possible. They hope that Brutus is still alive. One day a message comes from Michael explaining where Brutus is. He and Sualls have been busy and they found him detained. During this time, Michael has been questioning his hatred against Craytus due to the ugly features he sees in his corrupt but persuasive partner, Sualls. They rescue Brutus, who is held in stasis in a laboratory, which all instigates a giant fight. Craytus actually arrives on the scene, but only to observe. He leaves, and Michael follows. The fight is taken into the heart of Quarr. Brutus, revived and fully awake, is fighting on the front lines without questioning his own safety. Michael then sees the Eye of Quarr - through his own empty eye sockets. Quarr's personality pierces into Michael. Quarr is a individual person, but to the human mind his consciousness feels like an entire world. Quarr bring to surface such bruning feelings of hatred inside Michael that he's driven mad. His heart is set fully on killing Craytus. Craytus ends up finding the secret annexe in the middle of the struggle and kidnaps Nixon. Long story short, Michael hunts Craytus down and seaks onto his ship when Craytus leaves with Nixon to visit a lair on the other side of a warm hole. Never mind all the other characters who are involved: Basically Craytus catches Michael stalking him once again. This time he throws to Michael Nixon's necklace and a dark sword which he demonstrated had much power. he tells Michael to choose between his compassion and his hatred. Only his hatred can use the power of the sword. Michael decides to have faith in the power of the sword that fed off of evil thoughts. At first he tried to channel his hatred of Craytus into it. Nothing happened. Then he channeled his own frustrations toward his father, whom had neglected him and never sowed his love for him, into the sword, which ultimately work. It shines a blinding white. Michael tries to overcome Craytus, but as it happens the sword deceives him and does not give him enough strength to destroy Craytus. Other characters arrive. Brutus wants to find Michael and Nixon and he brought everyone with. They finally managed to escape on a ship called the Eminuzzy. Brutus is the first on the scene and he rescues Michael. Monosmith and Buzzy confront Craytus. Monosmith picks up a sword similar to the sword of evil, but it glows silver instead of white, and he didn't have to use hatred. Craytus is beheaded, although even as he tumbled from the ground some sort of energy escapes from his body. Brutus and Michael, meanwhile, begin to fight. Michael insists that the fuel to the ship must be used to destroy the lair with Craytus in it. Brutus cannot allow that. As it turns out, there is and explosion, but not from supplies off the Eminuzzy. It resulted naturally from damage done to life-support systems in the lair. Everyone flees to the Eminuzzy, but for Brutus and Michael, it's too late. It's left ambiguous as to whether Brutus was truly fighting Michael at that very last moment. Their bodies were never found. Nixon has a premonition that they might be alive.

So there you have a story about one person who grew up very fast and had to make a lot of tough decisions and another story of a 13-year-old who lost a lot of his child-like innocence very fast. By the end of the story, I do feel that Brutus has become a real man. Now, here's how it works pretty simply in the second book:

The story starts off in the first chapter, as always, with the struggle between the two main forces within the story, which are two rivaling alien races on the planet of Neaphi. This is important because this sets the overall tone of the story down right away, sort of the way that the opening of Star Wars instantly sets a tone. The second chapter immmediately introduces Brutus and Michael, who are still alive. Through means they do not yet understand, they had gone through a portal right before the explosion within Craytus's lair. They end up in some dark cave, When they try going through the portal again, they end up on another world. In many ways the story picks up right where the action left off, as far as Michael and Brutus's perspectives go. It's not from the perspective of someone else who finds out that they are alive. I think that this might work since I'm not making it a "shocking revelation". I'm just letting the story flow naturally.

I hope that helps. Again, thanks JKK for your encouragement and advice. By the way, the whole "going back in time and no one remembering but the main character" thing is annoying, perhaps the worst. Yet, I think that the one series that did it worse than any other was the Pendragon series. It was a good series over all, but really? That ending? After all the preaching about "this was the way it was meant to be" it all turned out to have never happened because it happened? Then you get introduced to Pendragon as an old man who then finds out that he did all these things that never happened? Worst. Ending. Ever. Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh

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Kraggh, thanks for the plot outline! I have some feedback and some questions, actually:

  • [*]Why is Michael's spine replaced? It seems a bit random.[*]Regarding the Sword of Hatred, it doesn't really fit in your story as far as I can see. Not only does it seem to be lifted directly from Star Wars or Harry Potter (actually, it reminds me very strongly of an inverse Patronus), but it's really out of place in a story that seems to be primarily techno sci-fi; emotion-power is usually a strictly mystical thing.[*]Why do Brutus and Michael fight? Throughout your explanation, Michael was a nuisance to Brutus because his goal was exclusively to kill Craytus, rather than help the slaves, but it doesn't seem to be enough to initiate fighting, especially since Craytus is dead at that point, unless Michael's just totally lost it and attacks Brutus (sort of a "killstealer" anger)(Moments later) Oh, I see... competing, specific objectives that they both feel very strongly about. Yeah, that's good.[*]The last-minute portal seems a bit convenient.

Here's some advice on your ending: make it very clear that they did not leave the lair before it exploded, drop the premonition that they're alive, and let the characters say they're dead (don't say it yourself as a narrator, depending on your writing style)It's seems that you're trying too hard to soften the blow, but you've got a really good dramatic moment; don't cheapen it too soon. In the second book, I would personally do a bit of a flashback of the last battle; starting from the perspective of a character that you know survived (to lessen the shock) and switch over to Brutus and Michael once I've established it's a flashback, then tell the rest of the scene, including the portal and explosion, from their perspective.

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:kaukau:Thanks, but I tried to clarify that it wasn't a plot outline :P. I was trying to tell the story of Brutus and Michael without necessarily getting off on tangents about other characters. Michael's spine was replaced because it gave technology that allowed him to see through the eyes of others, and it also downloaded the nuadine language into his brain. The nuadine are particularly fond of mutilating people into Frankenstein's monsters. The several practical applications of this cyborg modification was that the latest batch of slaves needed a person to translate the commands of their masters for them. Typically, people who lose their sight are given this implant. Sualls likewise lost her sight, although for her it was through excessive drug use right before being institutionalized. I'll admit that the initial reason why I did it, though, was because I was particularly charmed by the idea of Michael having a glowing red line down his back. I was charmed by the idea of him having anything on him that glowed, actually, with particular inspiration from Iron Man. It took me a while to find something that fit the story, though, but this time I really feel that it worked because one of the constant problems that I always came across in almost all my writing was the language barrier, and this seemed to solve the problem. Michael can communicate with the nuadine and the various other slaves who have this implant. There's also the reason that Craytus intentionally wants Michael to hate him. Craytus always seems to be several steps ahead of everyone and knows stuff that he seemingly has no way of knowing. Michael's a bit significant because of a secret connection that he has with another important character later on in the series (and this is hinted at in an earlier background book regarding the romance between his parents). Craytus's sword wasn't necessarily the Sword of HatredTM, per se. It was literally Death's sword, which Craytus had gone out of the way to find at the very beginning of the story and he had it in his possession all along. He is able to use the sword because he allows the spirit of Death to flow through him. His secret objective, though not explained until the third book, was to summon Death into a physical form. Death's spirit had a particularly strong force locked within the temple, and in theory, if an innocent person was corrupted by Death, it would give Death particular strength. It would be like a human sacrifice. Well, it's a bit more technical than that. As I've said earlier, there's something important in Michael's family history. There's a reason why only someone like him or Nixon can summon Death for Craytus, and there's significance to Nixon's necklace, though I keep that a secret until the latter part of the series. But the reader obviously doesn't know this yet. Speaking purely from the perspective of the first book, Michael's "vision" (not physical vision) becomes suddenly very clear and his understanding between right and wrong and what he should and shouldn't do becomes incredibly solid, yet he betrays the strenght of his conscious and decides to pursue hatred anyway. It's somewhat telling, though, that Death doesn't take him over when he's thinking of Craytus, though, but of his father. Craytus has a moment of secret delight. He claims in the midst of the action as Michael is trying to kill him that he has finally won his soul. This time Michael understands what he means, but in spite of everything he told himself earlier, he's embracing it. Yet, the sword doesn't work for Michael the way he expects it. After the initial thrill, Death really does secretly take a manifest form. As far as he doesn't have to use the sword through Michael and he doesn't care to have his loyal servant Craytus harmed. It's sort of like the One Ring to rule them all, which serves many people but is ultimately loyal to Sauron. Perhaps I can incorporate that idea throughout the story, now that I think about it... So I do establish a hint at the supernatural element of the story all along. Part of Craytus's character is that I try to establish him as not only a slave hunter but also a witch doctor (being a slave hunter was really just a convenience for him). There was also the supernatural element between Nixon and an encounter with Quarr where she had a vision. Quarr, who was all-seeing, could initially see Nixon in her vision until the force that brought her into the vision hid it from Quarr. Yet, Quarr had that knowledge, and through him Craytus found out. It all had to do with the significance of the necklace, which nobody yet knows gives its wearer the blessing of "prophecy", in that the person sees the truth the way it is. The reader doesn't quite know this yet, but they do know that there were several supernatural things that occurred within the story that were quite mysterious, Nixon's literal vision in particular. Regarding Brutus and Michael fighting, I'm still working on the logic of the scene. I want a strong reference to Julius Caesar where Brutus has to kill his friend for the safety of everyone. The name of the series is the IDES, and though it's short for "Inter-Dimensional Economic System", I realized that it had a cool acronym and wondered how I could alter the story so that the name had a greater impact, especially in the first book where the IDES hasn't been founded yet. I'm still working on the logic of that last fight scene, though, because I need there to be a reason for why Michael is a threat to the very end. The way I see it is that either the threat of explosion comes before Craytus dies or Michael and Brutus are unaware that Craytus is dead. Though, while I'm at it, Craytus didn't actually die. It's revealed in the third book that it takes more than cutting his head off to kill him. Of course, he's a biologically impossible nuadine, so it's not too much of a surprise. Perhaps I should explain a little about Craytus. Like nuadine in general, he's a chaotic, hideous being who's part animal, part plant, part fungus, part machine, part slime, part crystal, and part cosmic space energy, or any combination thereof. He's tall and dark and wears a tattered cape. He's generally humanoid, which makes him far more personal. Among the nuadine he is exceptional. He is strong enough to live comfortably on a planet with gravity over 2,000 times greater that Earth's. Most nuadine have form-fitting energy shields that protect them from regular bullets, but Craytus has a shield that protects him even from stronger lasers designed to break nuadine shields. He also happens to be the father of the species, although nobody except Quarr is old enough to remember that. I'm still working on the background here, though I do have a few distinct ideas. Regarding the last-minute portal, that also had to do with the necklace and the swords and other such mystical things. And the heritage on Nixon and Michael's mother's side of the family. It's one of the more complex things within the story. It's convenient but far from a coincidence. Of course, I understand that the audience, like you, might think it's too convenient, since the explanation doesn't come until the third book. The temporary explanation that makes it all seem less conspicuous is that throughout the story the nuadine were shown to be masters of warmhole technology and can create it with very little effort. Brutus and Michael go through a door. As far as they're concerned it's just a door until they come back out and find themselves on a new planet. Meanwhile, Craytus also temporarily had Monosmith's Inter-Dimensional Travelling Device (IDTD). Monosmith is extremely protective of it. For a moment Sualls stole it from him, but then later Craytus killed Sualls in the fight for Brutus and took it from her. Monosmith understands to value of it and severely wants it back from Craytus. It can create portals eve easier than nuadine technology, so the idea of portals is even more acceptable to the reader. Craytus, by the way, was a bit surprised when Monosmith picked up the new sword. It wasn't initally there. I would imagine that Craytus and Monosmith would most likely fight using the swords, and Monosmith would win. Oh, and Monosmith keeps the silver sword. Perhaps some time I will post a plot summary of the entire first book just to make this all a little easier. I do have a summary already written out, but I think I might have to expand it just so that I don't run into a ton of misunderstandings with regards to the narrative of the story. Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh
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Discussion has died down a bit here, I see, so I'll throw out a question: What's your favorite point of view to use? First person? Third person? Or even second person? For me, I generally use third person for novel-length stories and first person for short stories. But I have written first person epics and third person short stories, so so I suppose it just depends on which POV style the story needs. But I never use second person. It seems to me like it'd be very hard to pull off well, which is why I don't do it. -TNTOS-

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

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Second person is best for either short stories or Choose Your Own Adventure-type stories. As for first-person and third-person perspectives, I believe it all depends on how you want to portray your character.With first-person you get a much more personal character perspective, but the downside is you get only one perspective at a time, and the narrative has to be written the way the character would think / write it, himself. With third-person you can afford to be somewhat more omniscient, but then it can be harder to connect with any one character.Another interesting perspective sort of question: Who here likes past-tense writing, and who likes present-tense writing? Me, I think present-tense works best with first-person narrative.

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I pretty much always write in third-person, past tense. I don't like the present tense for fiction, unless it's canonically a historical work which occasionally references the "present-day." I'm not a huge fan of first-person, either, because I feel it opens up too much space for fridge logic, along with the greater limitations of it (although I often write in limited POV third-person, though).

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I always use past tense for my stories, whether the story be third person or first. I'm just not used to present tense, but it might be fun to experiment with it sometime. Maybe I'll write a short story with present tense, just to see what it's like. -TNTOS-

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

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:kaukau:Sorry, JKK, but I will have to post my outline later, after I clear up some small errors and imperfections that seem small to me but would without doubt be huge to some of the critics that I meet here. That, plus I am in the process of writing a new outline for characters that is competely different from my old format. Perhaps you will see it tommorrow. In the meantime, I also want contribute to this discussion. In my stories I write in third person, past tense. The only exception for this is when it comes to the character Deleta, who I do not feel can be done justice or even be understood if viewed from the outside, or even if I as the third-person narrator describe what's going on in his head. When I tried writing about him in first person perspective, something really just clicked. All the fun of the character is feeling that he has let me into the secrets of his mind. Now if I only hope that it doesn't clash too much with the rest of my series. However, I suppose that it shouldn't be too off because in every book I also have journal entries from at least one character. One of my favorite book series of all time was Animorphs, and whenever I think of first-person perspective this series comes to mind. In fact, it inspired me to write first-person with Deleta. Now I know that on the surface it is a story for young readers, but its themes run deep. A major part of the narrative are the emotions and the philosophies of the characters, and ultimately how hard the war is for them. One of the greatest themes throughout the sieries is making tough decisions that compromise what your beliefs and feelings, and only through the first-person could the story capture how hard it was for the characters. It made it very easy to relate to them. It made my oldest sister cry, even, after finishing the series. It's very powerful. On one hand I would like to use this. On the other hand I don't think that it fits my ensembled cast. Maybe if I understood my characters even better it would work - who knows. Still, there are certain characters who I know for sure I would not want to be told in first person. The narrative follows Buzzy for a while in the first book, but I feel that his place in the story is to be the great friend that the reader can have at their side, but not be inside. The same goes for Monosmith, Silver Bird, Ashley, Dreamcatcher, most of the villains, and several other characters who I feel the books each follow, but it doesn't feel right to tell their stories from the first person. They wouldn't want it that way. I've also noticed that between Harry Potter, Twilight, and Percy Jackson (one of these does not belong -hmmm...) only Harry Potter was told in third-person, and yet of all these Harry Potter probably did the best job of making the reader feel for the character. That was of course in part because Harry was pretty complex and had a good story. It was also because I really didn't think that the other two needed to be in first-person. J.K. Rowling also did a good job of describing the character's thoughts and feelings in spite of the distance given by third-person. I suppose that this is just good writing. It will probably be used by me in most cases. This is always such an interesting issue. I don't always quite know where I stand on it and I can't give a uniform philosophy. Most likely this will be something where I won't fully decide until I've fully written out a story, then I suppose that between my mother, friends, and I, some decisions regarding style can be made. Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh

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I also tend to write in third-person, past-tense. It's just the most simple way to write. When I think of first-person, the first thing I think of is the Hunger Games series. It really worked well; I experienced a really psychological story from the perspective of the main character; at the same time, I wished for other perspectives at certain points. (especially when the main character has a temper tantrum and isolates herself from the outside world) I think present-tense adds very little to a story; in fact, it can even distract from a story until the reader gets used to the writing style. It works better when combined with a first-person narrative, though. It's interesting that you mention Harry Potter; Rowling has an interesting style where she technically is writing third-person, but from the perspective of a single character. It works extremely well, and you wind up with the best of both worlds; it's not distracting to read, you never really wish for another perspective (although it helps that Harry occasionally sees into Voldemort's mind), and you relate extremely well to the main character. It's a style that I intend to replicate, but I doubt that I can focus exclusively on one character when they're all thinking interesting things. An idea I was toying around with was switching perspectives per chapter, or per paragraph if I have to. That said, I think it's a good exercise to write in a different style once in a while, whether it be an experimental short story or a prologue or epilogue. I plan to write a couple of prolouges in first-person present-tense myself.

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^ Very much agreed. I loved Rowling's style, and when I write I tend to replicate that, to an extent. My usual writing style is kind of a mix between hers and Farshtey's. I love how easily she can get into a character's head, but I like the team dynamic and have at least a couple different mindsets. Say what you want about Greg's style, but one thing he did well was switch character perspectives on the fly pretty seamlessly. If there's one thing I'll take out of the Bionicle books, it's that. Also yes, if there's one piece of universal advice I can give on writing, it's experiment. As Jedi said, third-person past-tense is simple and effective (and I also don't really see much benefit third-person present-tense has over past-tense), and it's usually what I write in. First-person kinda scared me for a while, but I wrote a short story from Vezon's one time, and it wasn't quite as daunting as I expected it to be. It certainly isn't as simple as third-person, but it was really fun to write (although admittedly, part of that fun was probably from the character himself, lol).

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I used to prefer past tense first person narration, in fact I still do because it just places me and the reader on the personal level with the character. Some people think it's too intimate, not objective enough so they don't use it. However my big project is going to be third-person, even though it's somewhat uncomfortable to me. I really need to outline that story though. It's way too big too just write and hope for the best. I know screenwriters use the index card method. There's a way around this that I'm using for another story. The narrator is supposedly just suppose to be some omniscient being but it turns out in the end it was the main character telling the story from a third person point of view. Which sort of throws whether you can trust everything he just told you.

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I don't attempt to emulate any one writer's style, nor do I wish to. When I read a book, I take the pros and try to incorporate them into my writing style. Generally a few cons will find their way in, too, but I can try to nullify them with pros from other books.For example, the most recent book I've read is Republic Commando: Order 66; while I really liked Karen Traviss's writing style and how she handled the dialogue and characterization, I thought her lack of location descriptions hurt the book. So while I'm adding her writing style to my list of skills to emulate, here is the rest of my partial list of influences:Writing Style-Richard Adams-J.K. Rowling-Timothy Zahn-Gary Paulsen-Karen Traviss-C.S. Lewis (Out of the Silent Planet, not Chronicles of Narnia)Characterization / Dialogue-Richard Adams-Karen Traviss-Timothy ZahnDescriptions-Richard Adams-Madeleine L'Engle-Gary Paulsen-J.K. Rowling-C.S. Lewis (same as above)-J.R.R. Tolkien-Anna Sewell (Black Beauty)Plot-Timothy Zahn-Richard Adams-C.S. Lewis (same as above)-J.R.R. TolkienFor the record, I've never bothered to write the full list down. I probably should someday. :P

Also yes, if there's one piece of universal advice I can give on writing, it's experiment. As Jedi said, third-person past-tense is simple and effective (and I also don't really see much benefit third-person present-tense has over past-tense), and it's usually what I write in. First-person kinda scared me for a while, but I wrote a short story from Vezon's one time, and it wasn't quite as daunting as I expected it to be. It certainly isn't as simple as third-person, but it was really fun to write (although admittedly, part of that fun was probably from the character himself, lol).

I've been attempting to write a first-person present-tense story on and off for a while now as an experiment, myself; hopefully reading the first-person present-tense prologue to Republic Commando: Order 66 will help, but I've been rather busy writing-wise recently. Edited by Legolover-361
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Writing Style-J.R.R. Tolkien-G.R.R. Martin-Brian Jacques-Orson Scott Card-Christopher Paolini-J.K. Rowling-Arthur C. Clarke-George Orwell-Numerous Roleplayers Characterization / Dialogue-G.R.R. Martin-Arthur C. Clarke-William Shakespeare-J.R.R. Tolkien-Isaac Asimov-Emily RoddaDescriptions-Brian Jacques-J.R.R. Tolkien-G.R.R. Martin-J.K. Rowling-George OrwellPlot-J.R.R. Tolkien-G.R.R. Martin-Arthur C. Clarke-William Shakespeare-George Orwell-Christopher Paolini-Rick Riordan-J.K. Rowling-Dungeons and Dragons-Numerous Roleplayers

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QUOTE(GregF @ Oct 13 2010, 03:21 AM)

Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.

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I haaaave... another queeestion! How many of you writer guys can make stories out of music?What I mean is;I have a very precise mind, and can seemingly have images come into my mind, just by listening to a song. I like the think of it as a gift [/modest]Lol jk, but really, and example of this is when a friend of mine who makes electronic music showed me a song of his. It was kinda futuristic, a bit techno-ish...And when I listened to that, I just had an image in my head of a glass dome in a forest in a sunny morning. Then I made a story out of it ^^Also, Across The Universe by The Beatles inspired an animation I'm making called The Adventures Of Jimmy Strat. So what about you??

Gee golly, I sure do love Bionicles! My favourite one is Hero Factory!

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I love doing that! I'll listen to an instrumental piece that's soft and then a bit harsh and picture a harpie that's protecting her child from a dark and powerful tempest. By the end of the song, three harpie sisters manage to fight off the elements and keep their child safe from harm, and although they are battered, they still value their unity as a family. Yeah, that was a fun field trip in Music class. XDBut yeah, music can play a large part in where I get my ideas. They allow my mood to just flow and wander, and then I play around with different ideas in my head. I picture what it is I'm feeling and express that with a few characters or maybe a small plot. I seldom write these down, but it's just a fun way to brainstorm when you have nothing better to do. ^^

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Imma also working on an animation which is based entirely on the album Music of the Spheres by Mike Oldfield.The soundtrack will be the album itself, with no dialogue. Just the music to guide the story (and the animation itself, bluergh)

Gee golly, I sure do love Bionicles! My favourite one is Hero Factory!

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:kaukau:I won't list all the writers who I take inspiration from. A lot of what inspires me isn't necessarily from books, and I mostly take inspiration from things that I feel apply too some extent with my story. As people have seen, I have made many references to Disney movies, along with Star Wars and a few other franchises. Then there are the more serious books. Again, I'm not immitating any one style, although small elements of what I read give me ideas, and I figure that the more I read the more I'll be able to write. As for you, I think that by reading through my posts you might get an idea of a few of the things that have influenced me. Regarding music, in fact I have been inspired purely from music and come up with entire stories and characters by listening to it, although generally I listen to music to get me into the contemplative mood necessary for understanding a character or situation. For example, I listen to a lot of John Williams and a few of the classic composers, but another favorite is Paul Cardall (I highly suggest looking him up because his music is good). I try to avoid music with words when actually writing, but when simply brainstorming and visualizing a scene or an act within a story ahead of time, it doesn't really matter. The list of things that I could listen to is endless and doesn't stop at classic music. Queen, Simon and Garfunkel, Five For Fighting, Coldplay, Britney Spears, Backstreet Boys, Les Miserables, Fiddler on the Roof, Disney songs, Elton John, Billy Joel, Don McLean, hymns, and Christmas hymns all inspire me, along with countless select songs. Some inspire me because the songs in and of themselves fit the scene or idea that I'm working with, but sometimes songs work because they make me nostalgic, and a large part of the story is nostalgic. Certain songs I also associated with certain characters and ideas a long time ago, and I might play them to get a feel of what the original character was, back when I had my first impression. This is something I might do regularly with older characters who I didn't necessarily invent when I was plotting out a story, and I really feel that some of these older first impressions were purer and truer to what I want in this series. For example, the character Vee was in some way associated with the song "All Star", but I also associated the song with a lot of other things. Perhaps by examining the feelings that this evokes I can better understand what Vee meant to me. Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh
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On writers who have inspired me: Agree with Kraggh. I can't list them all, mostly because I can't remember them all and they are too numerous to count. Anyway, yes, I do get ideas and inspiration from music. I've never based a whole story off an idea I got from music, but I have used ideas for my stories that music has given me. Music is a good place to get ideas from, at least for me. -TNTOS-

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

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Where I've gotten inspiration from: Legend of Zelda, Bionicle, Brothers Grimm, Hans Christian Anderson, Spiders (the arachnid animals, not a work of literature), music, clouds (in the sky, again, not literature), the sea, sunsets, the full moon, classic tales everyone knows... in other words; anything and everything that catches my eye. You don't have to be inspired by only authors or works of literature (renowned or unknown) in order to write a story, a poem, a sentence, etc. Inspiration can come from anywhere, and for me, it does. Not to say being inspired by other works is a bad thing, but I guess what I'm trying to say is that there isn't just one way to be inspired. Sorry guys, I just wasn't seeing anyone saying this, so I decided to say it. See what I'm saying? XP

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Since I don't want to read every paragraph and argument in this topic, I'll just follow the trend going on, aside from saying one thing:It's an important thing to learn if you want people to listen to know how to write on the internet as well. Most people skim and/or skip large portions of text. They don't want to read one thing forever, and they usually get bored pretty quickly. Almost every post in this topic is way too long, imo. I know I'm not going to read it all, I'd be here all day if I did. But anyway, Lewis Carroll. He taught me that writing and drawings don't have to be anywhere near perfect, or sensible for that matter. I had already been looking for verification on this method, and he gave it to me.

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List of inspirations? No way... I can't do it. I've been inspired by every single book I've read, movie I've watching, and game I've played. I follow each story and note what I liked, what I didn't like, and what I would change if I were writing.Specifically, I'd say J.K. Rowling and Christopher Paolini, as theirs are books that I keep rereading and enjoy every time; most other books I've only read once or twice. Paolini in particular is inspiring because he's living proof that even an amateur can write an engaging story. As for music, I find I'm kind of the opposite; I don't create scenes for music, but vice versa; as I'm reading a book, I'll find myself humming some tune, and it's often not one I've heard before. (The rest of the time it's from Zelda :P) One of my best compositions came from Inkheart and developed more during the Hunger Games.

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(The rest of the time it's from Zelda :P)

Hehe... Win... Anyway, I'm kinda curious... If you have a bunch of ideas for a story, how do you normally plan them out? As in, do you organize your thoughts in the story (if so, how do you do it? Charts, a rough draft, etc?) or do you just let your story flow after it's started and go from there? A mix of both?

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:kaukau:Contrary to Gorag, I actually do read every single post in this topic. So far I've been agreeing with JKK Tekulo, who put down ideas that I subconsciously adhere to but didn't consciously think to explain in this topic. Anyway, moving on. Coincidentally, Tekulo brought up something that I was planning on adressing anyway. The way I always did my giant epic is that I live through it in real time. I don't literally imagine all the events that take place and I don't initially have everything in the right place, but in my imaginitive realm the story exists in some sort of real time where everything is taking place even as I live in my day-to-day life. Unfortunately, I haven't been paying much attention to what's been going on in the last few years and have instead been looking back at how the entire series started (The story of Brutus and Michael, as I've mentioned earlier), so I have a bit of catching up to do. Meanwhile, what's currently happening on my news feed is that Dreamcatcher has learned that he's essentially an angel of sorts. The Zegen, a special mystical necklace, has caused him to be reborn and now he is whiter than snow. A month ago he cast out Master Legious from Aarde. However, the Mathazon Crystal has been stolen by Megstra, who is taking the crystal to the planet Amakor to be given to Legious. There will be a struggle over this, and it will be big, because I am currently living the very last book in the entire series. I know that it is the end. Dreamcatcher knows that this is the final battle. It's going to be big. Won't advance to the next part of the story until I've lived in this world a while and until I've climbed a certain pillar where I want to be so that I can put myself in a position where I can pretend I'm Master Legious receiving the crystal. I don't know how many other people are method actors like me. I also tend to visit places that reminds me of certain scenes and I walk around these places to inspire the events in the scenes. Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh
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:kaukau:Contrary to Gorag, I actually do read every single post in this topic. So far I've been agreeing with JKK Tekulo, who put down ideas that I subconsciously adhere to but didn't consciously think to explain in this topic. Anyway, moving on. Coincidentally, Tekulo brought up something that I was planning on adressing anyway. The way I always did my giant epic is that I live through it in real time. I don't literally imagine all the events that take place and I don't initially have everything in the right place, but in my imaginitive realm the story exists in some sort of real time where everything is taking place even as I live in my day-to-day life. Unfortunately, I haven't been paying much attention to what's been going on in the last few years and have instead been looking back at how the entire series started (The story of Brutus and Michael, as I've mentioned earlier), so I have a bit of catching up to do. Meanwhile, what's currently happening on my news feed is that Dreamcatcher has learned that he's essentially an angel of sorts. The Zegen, a special mystical necklace, has caused him to be reborn and now he is whiter than snow. A month ago he cast out Master Legious from Aarde. However, the Mathazon Crystal has been stolen by Megstra, who is taking the crystal to the planet Amakor to be given to Legious. There will be a struggle over this, and it will be big, because I am currently living the very last book in the entire series. I know that it is the end. Dreamcatcher knows that this is the final battle. It's going to be big. Won't advance to the next part of the story until I've lived in this world a while and until I've climbed a certain pillar where I want to be so that I can put myself in a position where I can pretend I'm Master Legious receiving the crystal. I don't know how many other people are method actors like me. I also tend to visit places that reminds me of certain scenes and I walk around these places to inspire the events in the scenes. Your Honor,Emperor Kraggh

*Incoming Transmission* That's almost exactly what I do when I make up stories. Mine rarely ever get written down, but I kind of act them out as they go along. Of course, I have a tendency to skip the middle portion, so I'm left with a gap that's annoying to fill. In fact, I have one story that's been swimming around in my head for a while. However, it's kind of a chronicle of a man's life, and he lives a really, really long time. There's so much empty space that every time I start to sit down and write I get discouraged and give up. It also doesn't help that another story in the same "universe" kind of runs parallel to the latter parts of the main character's life, and it ties in with the main story. Oh well. Someday I'll get started on it. Someday. *End Transmission*

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I generally do what Kraggh and Daedalus do, except with a twist: I generally know how everything is going to end, I just don't know how to get there. To use a metaphor, it's like the first rehearsal for a play; I've heard from the director how everything is going to go down, but I don't realize how enthralling the characters themselves are until I get to play as them. And then, when I go through an edit my stories, I'm the actor refining his portrayal of the character. The final story is like the play itself -- the lights go on, the actors are ready, and everything before the finished product seems to never have happened to the audience.

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Just as a question, how do other people here feel about the concept of the death of the author? I, for one, have never been so hostile to a literary movement before.

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QUOTE(GregF @ Oct 13 2010, 03:21 AM)

Keep in mind that if Star Trek fans had, as a group, said, "No point in talking about this anymore, it's never going to come back," it never WOULD have come back.

Do you think you have what it take to climb... Up the Carrion Stair!

Credit to Toa Zehvor MT for the banner!

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I disagree strongly with that idea. The author is the creator of the work; he knows what his story means, and while others can have differing opinions, his is the most important interpretation because it's the original and the one meant to be emphasized.Now, I'm sure there are writers who intend to let readers interpret their stories any way they want (I'm dipping a toe into this concept), but that's different: It's intentional.

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So far I've been agreeing with JKK

*grins in a manner utterly lacking in humility*

Anyway, moving on. Coincidentally, Tekulo brought up something that I was planning on adressing anyway. The way I always did my giant epic is that I live through it in real time. I don't literally imagine all the events that take place and I don't initially have everything in the right place, but in my imaginitive realm the story exists in some sort of real time where everything is taking place even as I live in my day-to-day life.

I'm almost that way, but my story already has an outline (in my head, at least). As I'm going about my day and I have a free moment, a lot of times I'll go through a single scene from somewhere in the story. (it's usually from book 2 and 6, because those are the ones I plan to write first... and then sometimes it's from book 9 which isn't even in the plan yet...) I'll imagine the character's dialogue and actions; sometimes I'll pause to imagine how a character would actually react to a situation. If the scene starts going in a way totally different than the way I originally imagined it, I stop and figure out the implications of the changes. If I can perform a quick tweak to the history of the universe, or maybe change the laws of physics and magic a bit, I'll keep the changes.Wow... that last sentence sounded weird.

I have 3 to 5 generations worth of stories from the same universe in my head. I haven't written anything down yet. :S

Yep, same here :)

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