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#561 Offline that guy from that show

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:01 PM

I don't think that's what they were talking about...But Lumira and Shaak Ti had normal clothes.

As do Barris Offee, Adi Gallia, Stass Allie, Bulter Swan, Bastila Shan, and Janna SoloIt's noteworthy that Aayla Secura, the de facto scantily clad jedi is originally from the expanded universe.Her first appearances was in comics where artists are infamous for making stripperific wardrobes. The artists of comics are almost always male and creating characters with as little clothing as possible is both fun for them to draw and usually boost sales. The same goes for video games, animators make characters like Maris Brood and redesign Shaak Ti's costume for exactly the same reason comic artists do. They are simply catering to the predominately male fan base.With the exception of Ahsoka Tano, characters created for the movies have been humbly dressed.

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#562 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:05 PM

Fair point about the female Jedi not all having terrible clothing decisions in that way.But still no body armor. I mean, robes are neat and all, but they aren't very practical for combat. Deflecting blaster bolts is nice and all, but that trick just doesn't work with slugthrowers.
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#563 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:12 PM

I wonder what a minigun would do to a Jedi.Well, I know what it would do to them. I just can't say it on a children's forum.
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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#564 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:25 PM

I wonder what a minigun would do to a Jedi.Well, I know what it would do to them. I just can't say it on a children's forum.

Posted ImageThe horror... :P.

Edited by Samhain, Nov 26 2012 - 11:29 PM.

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#565 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:28 PM

If Jedi can deflect projectiles with the Force, why is it that they rely on their lightsabers to deflect blaster bolts? I believe it's stated that one of the forms of lightsaber combat (Whichever the primarily defensive one is) was developed partly because Jedi kept getting killed by blasters, strongly implying that it's not exactly easy, if it's possible at all, for them to just swat bullets/blaster bolts out of the air with their minds.
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#566 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:31 PM

Not sure if we can link to the Wookieepedia, but it is called Force Deflection. It says that relying on a lightsaber is easier, but not necessary. Not only is it used there, but Darth Vader uses it in the main trilogy and it is a low level force power in KOTOR 2.
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#567 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:32 PM

I'll also note, that their most formidable ability, Plot Armor, goes unmentioned.Once removed.....well, rewatch some of those temple sequences in Episode 3.

Edited by Basilisk, Nov 26 2012 - 11:35 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#568 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Nov 26 2012 - 11:38 PM

The article says that, one, it's a rather difficult thing, and two, instances of doing this with Force Lightning appear to be much, much more common than instances of it being done with blasters (particularly unambiguous examples, which the Darth Vader one certainly isn't), and I can't find any of it being done with slugthrowers (which are noted to be impossible for lightsabers to deflect, because even if the lightsaber intercepts the bullet, you've still got a ball of molten metal traveling, at high speed, towards your face).So while really, really skilled Jedi might be able to do that, once you take away Plot Armor you find that an AK-47 is quite sufficient for killing a Jedi. Hence the need for (and bafflingness of the lack of) body armor.
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#569 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 12:16 AM

For all intents and purposes, I go by the MST3K Mantra for stuff like this, if you don't know what it is it is this:""It's just a show; I should really just relax."Line from the theme song of Mystery Science Theater 3000, which encourages the viewer to not worry about picayune details that are unnecessary to the enjoyment of the program. Sometimes referred to as Hodgson's Law, after Joel Hodgson, MST3K creator ."-"That Trope Site."Not that I won't look at things like this in a critical lens at all, but doing flips with a lightsaber in robes just looks more entertaining. Though I will point out that in that picture, Obi-wan is blocking projectiles, and later blocks blaster bolts in that same show just a little later. Force Barrier is another version of that, but seemingly more powerful, and it's use seems to depend on the writer more often then not, though wider use of armor, shields, and force powers is far more common in the Old Republic era than anything else, and that actually seems pretty logical to me, all things considered.@ Bas, Plot armor, while a valid criticism, is pretty common in fiction now-a-days, and whether it is used depends more on the writer then anything else, it also never helped Chewie, Anakin Solo, or Mara-Jade Skywalker to name a few, ultimately I would point to the quote up top for my take on this.

Edited by Samhain, Nov 27 2012 - 01:36 PM.

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#570 Offline namcurtsnoC

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 07:18 AM

The reason whythey have to block blaster bolts with their lightsabers is because blaster bolts are particle beam energy; it's really hard to manipulate.As for lack of body armor, I think it's a cultural thug. Something to denote them as Jedi
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Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#571 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 09:44 AM

Repeating the MST3K mantra to Vahki tends to have less an effect of calming him down and more an effect of him punching you through the internet.I would point out, though it only comes from my limited and fogged memory of such, that the Jedi wear those robes because they're 'the robes of the common person.' I have yet to see anyone but a Jedi wearing those robes so how the **** its the robes of a common person I don't know, but I imagine if Lucas ever actually showed us more common life than water farmers and bar clubs, we might find a place in which they don't stand out like sore thumbs.It's less out of practicality and more about Jedi dogma about being no better than the common person. Which tends to also translate to "you need protection/killing/bribing/brainwashing/forceshoving for your own good."
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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#572 Offline namcurtsnoC

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 11:49 AM

I think the robes symbolize having only basic necessities. Armor isn't really necessary and it's expensive.
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Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#573 Offline BULiK

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 11:59 AM

But one would think that by now, when the entire galaxy is at war and the Jedi are major generals, they would invest in some better protection.
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#574 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 12:31 PM

Repeating the MST3K mantra to Vahki tends to have less an effect of calming him down and more an effect of him punching you through the internet.

That may be, and even though it is fun to look at in-universe justification, the ultimate reason is probably Rule Of Cool, and even then you also have another problem and that is the number of writers that make content for the Star Wars universe over a span of 30 years, contradictions or inconsistencies are bound to happen. But I ultimately find that I am still entertained when they use things like Rule Of Cool and the like, at least here, what with execution and subjectivity and all.

Edited by Samhain, Nov 27 2012 - 01:10 PM.

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#575 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 12:33 PM

So basically, portrayal of Force powers is inconsistent at best, writers tend to enjoy making characters they like into small gods, and the robes either make no sense or make the Jedi look like wacky space-monks who have never heard of pragmatism.Taking that with the fact that droids produced specifically for warfare somehow managed to be spectacularly incompetent at it, and you'll see why I love the Star Wars canon.
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#576 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 02:51 PM

I think a rule of fiction goes like "Lie all you want, but at least keep them consistent."

Edited by Cybernetic Alex Humva, Nov 27 2012 - 02:52 PM.

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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#577 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 03:41 PM

I think a rule of fiction goes like "Lie all you want, but at least keep them consistent."

This is kind of difficult with the number of writers Star Wars has had, each one will portray things to a different level. I also don't recall a time when I was observing Star Wars media and my Willing Suspension of Disbelief was broken (and I am talking in respect to in-universe rules and such), I would also like to point out that like WSOD, Rule of Cool, and the like are subjective tropes...

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#578 Offline I Am Ultron Six

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 04:32 PM

I would have the thought the lack of armour was because its symbolic of how they're supposed to be peacekeepers not soldiers but of course with the Clone Wars thats pretty much exactly what they are so...
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I am Ultron Six, a cybernetic intelligence created by Doctor Henry Pym. My imperative is to bring peace and order to this world. I am about to fulfil that imperative; for the extinction of humanity…begins now.

the_ultron_imperative.jpg

Soon the earth will no longer be habitable for any biological organism: Man, woman, child, plant, animal, fungus or bacterium. All life will cease to exist. This is not a threat, there is nothing you can do to stop it. The process has already begun. I receive no pleasure in this, it is simply the only solution. There must be peace and order, the end of life on earth will ensure that. Goodbye.


#579 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 06:59 PM

I would have the thought the lack of armour was because its symbolic of how they're supposed to be peacekeepers not soldiers but of course with the Clone Wars thats pretty much exactly what they are so...

I would personally like my peacekeepers armored. Dead people don't keep much of anything.

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#580 Offline that guy from that show

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 07:16 PM

I would have the thought the lack of armour was because its symbolic of how they're supposed to be peacekeepers not soldiers but of course with the Clone Wars thats pretty much exactly what they are so...

I would personally like my peacekeepers armored. Dead people don't keep much of anything.

War is not a Jedi's only duty. Most of their time is spent as mediators, ambassadors, and advisers. They advocate for peace and balance, it would be hypocritical if they did that when waring armor and looking like a soldier. It would be intimidating for people and undermine any efforts they make to promote tolerance. I would feel way more comfortable talking to a wise person in a robe then a person dressed for battle. Even in war time, a Jedi sould practice what then preach, when foreigners witness Jedi in full armor charging into battle it would create a false impression of what they do. Armor would indicate they are warriors, robes correctly show them as philosophers.To spite all this, Jedi have been known to ware armor. Saesee Tiin wore armor at the battle of Coruscant and Obi-Wan Kenobi wore armor at the Battle of Munnilinst. It's not like it's forbidden, but it's such a contradiction to their beliefs that it's generally avoided.

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#581 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 07:37 PM

Wearing robes is all well and good when you're actually serving as a diplomat, but when it's likely that you're going to be put into a situation where people are going to be shooting at you, basic common sense should dictate standard operating procedure, meaning that they should, as a rule, throw some freaking armor on in those circumstances.
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I am most definitely a mad man with a blog.


#582 Offline Engineer Alexandra Humva

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Posted Nov 27 2012 - 07:46 PM

Yeah, it's the reason why a lot of countries IRL gives their diplomats bullet proof vests when they go into dangerous negotiation settings. And usually said negotiation settings aren't full blown war zones. And being done with a lightsaber.
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"In short, my English Lit friend, living in a mental world of absolute rights and wrongs, may be imagining that because all theories are wrong, the earth may be thought spherical now, but cubical next century, and a hollow icosahedron the next, and a doughnut shape the one after." -Isaac Asimov, responding to a letter he had received saying that scientific certainty was false, The Relativity of Wrong


#583 Offline Rausaro

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Posted Dec 01 2012 - 02:05 AM

Didn't Obi-Wan wear partial clone trooper armor on Utapau?


Edited by Rausaro, Dec 01 2012 - 02:06 AM.

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#584 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 01 2012 - 05:31 AM

We've established that that particular character did, on occasion, wear armor. The problem is the fact that wearing armor wasn't standard operating procedure for Jedi in potentially hazardous situations. Sudden attacks of common sense on Obi-Wan's part stand in stark contrast to the majority of Jedi.


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#585 Offline Electric Turahk

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Posted Dec 01 2012 - 10:10 AM

[color=rgb(212,175,55);]I can't decide whether I found the Younglings or droids more annoying out of the most recent episodes.I guess you could say I've not been too entertained by the show lately.~|ET|~[/color]
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#586 Offline BULiK

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Posted Dec 01 2012 - 12:08 PM

I liked the lightsaber-making droid.  That may just be because he is played by David Tennant, though...


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#587 Offline Ultimate StarsSaberBee 823

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Posted Dec 01 2012 - 09:54 PM

Hey guys, I love Star Wars, and saw the topic, so I just had to stop by.

Few facts about me:

Avid Star Wars Fan

Swtor Player(If anyone is on the Harbringer server on Pub or Imp side, send me a PM) with Two level 50 characters

Favorite Film: Return of the Jedi

Favortie Jedi: Either Mace Windu or Kit Fisto

Favorite Sith: Either Darth Maul or Darth Malgus

Not much else to say about that.

So is anyone else excited for the Darth Maul and Savage Oppress fight in Season Five?


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#588 Offline namcurtsnoC

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Posted Dec 01 2012 - 11:25 PM

Sorry, what? They're appearing again?
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Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#589 Offline Ehlekdude

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Posted Dec 02 2012 - 01:03 PM

Yes, they appeared in the Season 5 trailer

Spoiler
.


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#590 Offline that guy from that show

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Posted Dec 02 2012 - 05:11 PM

Was anyone else irritated by the Pit droid in this week's episode? Not only was his reason for being on the mission entirely meaningless but he misrepresented what Serv-O-Droid DUM-Series Pit Droid sould be. Those are class 5 droid which means they sould be little more then a single purpose piece of hardware. Pit droid fix vehicles, that's it, seeing one preform tasks like flying a ship is both unrealistic and beyond their capabilities. One developing such abstract features as sarcasm and a since of pride seems like something that's what basic design would allow. Also, since these are military droids I would expect they would receive memory wipes to keep them from developing personalities. 

 

And why would they even bring one along? Not only would a DUM-Series droid be horribly unequipped for the task but a basic Astromech would be a far superior pilot. An astromech's whole purpose is to monitor flight performance and navigate hyper space. They make fine pilots, far better then an off the shelf mechanic droid. Even if having the pit droid was unavoidable a better move would have been to smack it on the noise and leave it in the shuttle. There would be less chance of loosing it on the ship or it drawing attention to the mission. It would be right back where it was needed and would create no danger of causing trouble. Plus, the Colonel would not have to deal with it. 

 

My final complaint is the weird names for the droids. Why use such random numbers instead of the basic R2, R4, and R5? I also am skeptical about how common an Astromech would be on a Separatist ship. I would imagine the CIS would use droids more closely integrated with the ship and would work better with the rest of the droid crew. Since the CIS does not use Astromechs with their starfighters there would be no need for them to navigate hyper drive coordinators. Most CIS ships don't even have a hyper drive!

 

I'm sorry, I'm probably being really nit-picky and over thinking this. It just bothered me.


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#591 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 02 2012 - 11:49 PM

I've basically given up on that show respecting canon. The writers just don't care.


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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#592 Offline that guy from that show

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Posted Dec 05 2012 - 07:58 PM

I've basically given up on that show respecting canon. The writers just don't care.

 

Well I just need to accept the show is meant for children. It's just odd that some episode like this one are clearly catered to a younger audience well the Ventress/Maul arc last season was clearly more mature. The show seems to have such a huge range of dark to light content that not much falls between.


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That is all

 


#593 Offline J46 Nui

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 01:52 PM

It could be possible that it is just a droid that looks like a Pit droid. I do not think they never referred to him as a Pit droid, and he looks much thicker than a regular Pit droid.

 

As for the writers not caring, I think it has more to do with George Lucas not caring. Pretty much all of the concepts for the stories came straight from him, or at the very least approved by him. Now that he is gone, there maybe a chance that the show will start respecting the EU more. Plus, there are some writers there that obviously do care about the EU. I can name several episdodes that reference the EU. And even though it did change canon quite a bit, at least the Ventress/Maul arc acknowledged the established canon and worked a lot of it into the new story.


Edited by J46 Nui, Dec 06 2012 - 01:55 PM.

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#594 Offline Basilisk

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 05:34 PM

Why tell a new story in the first place? The old one was good enough.

 

And didn't require someone who'd been cut in half somehow surviving a massive fall.


Edited by Basilisk, Dec 06 2012 - 05:46 PM.

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"Shall this great kingdom, that has survived, whole and entire, the Danish depredations, the Scottish inroads, and the Norman conquest; that has stood the threatened invasion of the Spanish Armada, now fall prostrate before the House of Bourbon? Surely, my Lords, this nation is no longer what it was! Shall a people, that seventeen years ago was the terror of the world, now stoop so low as to tell its ancient inveterate enemy, take all we have, only give us peace? It is impossible! ...My Lords, any state is better than despair. Let us at least make one effort; and if we must fall, let us fall like men!"
 
-William Pitt the Elder, before suffering a fatal stroke on the floor of the House of Lords.

#595 Offline Electric Turahk

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 05:45 PM

[color=rgb(212,175,55);]The pit droid is mainly who I was referencing in my last post when referring to droids (not the Lightsaber builder guy.... He was actually interesting).I thought he was a Pit droid too. And that's why his characterization didn't make sense.~|ET|~[/color]
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#596 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 06 2012 - 05:52 PM

Why tell a new story in the first place? The old one was good enough.

 

And didn't require someone who'd been cut in half somehow surviving a massive fall.

---

Because they killed off a character who was much more interesting than Anakin would be until he got his lungs burned out? Because the whole 'Oh, my enemy's helpless, I'd better swing my sword at the floor like a moron' thing was an injustice unto Darth Maul's character that needed to be corrected? Because he has the greatest forehead in Star Wars?


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#597 Offline J46 Nui

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 06:52 PM

Also, if you are going to point out that surviving ridiculous falls after recently receiving a surprise amputation is a plot hole, then the ending of TESB should have been Luke dying. :P

 

And while I agree with you that some of the retcons caused by the show are worse than what they are replacing (poor Mandalore :(), the Maul/Ventress arc is an exception for me. Especially on the Ventress side of things. I thought how her character originally was and how her arc originally ended were quite lame.


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#598 Offline Ymper Trymon

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 07:18 PM

Well, to be fair, the Maul example is a wee bit more extreme than Luke. Luke got a hand amputated, Maul got more of a half-off deal.


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#599 Offline Electric Turahk

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 07:57 PM

[color=rgb(212,175,55);]Yep, I really hate the droids.But I think I especially hate Colonol Gascon.~|ET|~[/color]
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#600 Offline J46 Nui

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Posted Dec 08 2012 - 11:13 PM

Well, to be fair, the Maul example is a wee bit more extreme than Luke. Luke got a hand amputated, Maul got more of a half-off deal.

 

Okay, then. How about General Grevious? He was blown up in the sky, fell back to the planet, and then subjected to even more damage by Count Dooku.


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