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Official Transformers Topic

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#961 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 05:37 PM

You know what confuses me the most in the G1 series?

 

In 1984, Megatron built the Consturticons to bolstered the Decepticons forces on Earth. According to Omega Supreme, the Constructicons had already existed (before the Autobot crew left Cybertron) and Megatron reprogrammed them in Decepticons. But when Rodimus Prime entered the Matrix of Leadership, he discovered that the Constructicons (all 8 of them) built Megatron.

 

Like whut?

 

I suppose you could argue they where all different sets of constructicons... But that one Omega Supreme episode makes that nearly impossible.

There's also the part where the Transformers where either built by Quintessons or Made by Primus. And the whole size changing thing. And I remember a part of the show where Shockwave was holding a tiny version of his gun mode.

 

Welcome to Generation 1. Enjoy your stay.


Edited by ~Shockwave~, Jul 05 2014 - 05:42 PM.

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#962 Offline Regicidal Kaiser Manducus

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 07:30 PM

And where does Optimus' trailer go when he's in his robot form? Nobody knows.


Edited by Regicidal Kaiser Manducus, Jul 05 2014 - 08:20 PM.

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#963 Online Spiderus Prime

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 09:01 PM

And where does Optimus' trailer go when he's in his robot form? Nobody knows.

That is a very old question,it's Up there with Rumble/Frenzy Color Debate,Who become Cyclonus,Who that Dion become,ect. 


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#964 Offline Regicidal Kaiser Manducus

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Posted Jul 05 2014 - 09:35 PM

And Sunstreaker with his insane egotistic skills


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#965 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 04:54 AM

Despite what people say, the movie continuity can be very easily sorted out.

 

G1 on the other hand is such a plot mess you can't make sense out of it no matter what you do. Ever.


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#966 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 08:48 AM

Despite what people say, the movie continuity can be very easily sorted out.

 

G1 on the other hand is such a plot mess you can't make sense out of it no matter what you do. Ever.

 

I'm pretty sure you've attempted to prove that, but you only managed to win that argument because you refused to admit there was anything wrong with them.


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#967 Offline Regicidal Kaiser Manducus

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 12:34 PM

 

You know what confuses me the most in the G1 series?

 

In 1984, Megatron built the Consturticons to bolstered the Decepticons forces on Earth. According to Omega Supreme, the Constructicons had already existed (before the Autobot crew left Cybertron) and Megatron reprogrammed them in Decepticons. But when Rodimus Prime entered the Matrix of Leadership, he discovered that the Constructicons (all 8 of them) built Megatron.

 

Like whut?

 

I suppose you could argue they where all different sets of constructicons... But that one Omega Supreme episode makes that nearly impossible.

There's also the part where the Transformers where either built by Quintessons or Made by Primus. And the whole size changing thing. And I remember a part of the show where Shockwave was holding a tiny version of his gun mode.

 

Welcome to Generation 1. Enjoy your stay.

 

 

Or Megatron turning into a tiny pistol. And why he suddenly went OP in the movie.


Edited by Regicidal Kaiser Manducus, Jul 06 2014 - 01:51 PM.

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#968 Offline Wazdakka

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 01:17 PM

In a non-storyline-related note, do we know when the figures exhibited at Botcon will hit shelves? Every day I do not own Brainstorm, I die a little.


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#969 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 06:04 PM

 

Despite what people say, the movie continuity can be very easily sorted out.

 

G1 on the other hand is such a plot mess you can't make sense out of it no matter what you do. Ever.

 

I'm pretty sure you've attempted to prove that, but you only managed to win that argument because you refused to admit there was anything wrong with them.

 

No, there are things wrong with them. But it's all minor issues, like Barricade going off to do who knows what without any apparent cause in the first movie.

 

Nothing important that actually affects the plot has anything that can't be sorted out.


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#970 Offline Makaru

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Posted Jul 06 2014 - 07:13 PM

Why would several high ranking military officials send THE CUBE to the middle of Mission City with the very real risk of civilian casualties instead of the hundreds of miles of desert around Nevada? They know the Decepticons can track it. Sending your McGuffin Du Jours into a crowd of citizens to hit up the nearest Radio Shack for shortwaves while in pursuit of deadly alien terrorists is so bizarrely pre-911 it's a mess. And what makes it worse is the established military personnel with first contact experience and generally decent military strategy and wherewithal as EXCITEDLY agreeing to go into the city.

 

I mean we all overlook that because the fight scene looked so cool but realistically it took B.O.T. levels of stupidity to make that entire scene happen.

 

 

Let's just acknowledge that, no matter what continuity you look at, it requires a lot of dumb things to make the cool interesting stuff happen and that if you're going to spend all your time trying to figure out which continuity has the higher levels of dumb we are going to be here for a very long time.


Edited by Makaru, Jul 06 2014 - 07:14 PM.

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#971 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 07 2014 - 03:47 AM

Why would several high ranking military officials send THE CUBE to the middle of Mission City with the very real risk of civilian casualties instead of the hundreds of miles of desert around Nevada? They know the Decepticons can track it. Sending your McGuffin Du Jours into a crowd of citizens to hit up the nearest Radio Shack for shortwaves while in pursuit of deadly alien terrorists is so bizarrely pre-911 it's a mess. And what makes it worse is the established military personnel with first contact experience and generally decent military strategy and wherewithal as EXCITEDLY agreeing to go into the city.

 

I mean we all overlook that because the fight scene looked so cool but realistically it took B.O.T. levels of stupidity to make that entire scene happen.

 

 

Let's just acknowledge that, no matter what continuity you look at, it requires a lot of dumb things to make the cool interesting stuff happen and that if you're going to spend all your time trying to figure out which continuity has the higher levels of dumb we are going to be here for a very long time.

Now, I'm no military strategist, but neither are you.

 

1. Like you said, they did it for the radios. They knew (and repeatedly stated) they had no chance against the Decepticons without proper air support.

 

2. A bad decision made by a character is not a plot hole, it is simply a bad decision.

 

3. It might not have been a bad decision after all, as the alternative would be to go into the desert, get chased there instead, and fight the Decepticons without air support. Then they'd lose the battle, the 'Cons would get the Cube, and well you get the idea.


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#972 Offline ~JC~

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Posted Jul 07 2014 - 05:38 AM

man, anybody read that 500 page manifesto on the mike bay movies? they had some crazy thematic stuff going on nobody ever picked up on


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#973 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 07 2014 - 07:07 AM

I saw it. I couldn't decide what was a more ridiculous statement about the movies. That, or Draven's post.

 

(To anyone who doesn't know what it is, it was not actually a negative review, it was a ridiculous claim that the movies had hidden meanings that just made no sense whatsoever.)


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#974 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jul 07 2014 - 03:18 PM

 

Why would several high ranking military officials send THE CUBE to the middle of Mission City with the very real risk of civilian casualties instead of the hundreds of miles of desert around Nevada? They know the Decepticons can track it. Sending your McGuffin Du Jours into a crowd of citizens to hit up the nearest Radio Shack for shortwaves while in pursuit of deadly alien terrorists is so bizarrely pre-911 it's a mess. And what makes it worse is the established military personnel with first contact experience and generally decent military strategy and wherewithal as EXCITEDLY agreeing to go into the city.

 

I mean we all overlook that because the fight scene looked so cool but realistically it took B.O.T. levels of stupidity to make that entire scene happen.

 

 

Let's just acknowledge that, no matter what continuity you look at, it requires a lot of dumb things to make the cool interesting stuff happen and that if you're going to spend all your time trying to figure out which continuity has the higher levels of dumb we are going to be here for a very long time.

Now, I'm no military strategist, but neither are you.

 

1. Like you said, they did it for the radios. They knew (and repeatedly stated) they had no chance against the Decepticons without proper air support.

 

2. A bad decision made by a character is not a plot hole, it is simply a bad decision.

 

3. It might not have been a bad decision after all, as the alternative would be to go into the desert, get chased there instead, and fight the Decepticons without air support. Then they'd lose the battle, the 'Cons would get the Cube, and well you get the idea.

 

 

You don't have to be a military strategist to know fighting a battle in a highly populated area is a big fat NO. And generally, when a character makes a mistake or poor decision it's easy to tell by the way it's presented. This wasn't presented like a mistake. Keep in mind that in almost any other continuity, the autobots goal is to preserve life at virtually any cost. 


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#975 Offline Makaru

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Posted Jul 07 2014 - 04:06 PM

 

Why would several high ranking military officials send THE CUBE to the middle of Mission City with the very real risk of civilian casualties instead of the hundreds of miles of desert around Nevada? They know the Decepticons can track it. Sending your McGuffin Du Jours into a crowd of citizens to hit up the nearest Radio Shack for shortwaves while in pursuit of deadly alien terrorists is so bizarrely pre-911 it's a mess. And what makes it worse is the established military personnel with first contact experience and generally decent military strategy and wherewithal as EXCITEDLY agreeing to go into the city.

 

I mean we all overlook that because the fight scene looked so cool but realistically it took B.O.T. levels of stupidity to make that entire scene happen.

 

 

Let's just acknowledge that, no matter what continuity you look at, it requires a lot of dumb things to make the cool interesting stuff happen and that if you're going to spend all your time trying to figure out which continuity has the higher levels of dumb we are going to be here for a very long time.

Now, I'm no military strategist, but neither are you.

 

1. Like you said, they did it for the radios. They knew (and repeatedly stated) they had no chance against the Decepticons without proper air support.

 

2. A bad decision made by a character is not a plot hole, it is simply a bad decision.

 

3. It might not have been a bad decision after all, as the alternative would be to go into the desert, get chased there instead, and fight the Decepticons without air support. Then they'd lose the battle, the 'Cons would get the Cube, and well you get the idea.

 

1. They theorized that they would be defeated without air support, Which I would buy (when in reality, I think they helped take down Blackout??). There are easier ways to get your shortwaves than to go directly into the center of a heavily populated area.

 

2. It's a plot hole when your character does something completely against character with no explanation or reason.

 

3. See #1. The planes came in purely to get tricked by Starscream and, unless I am forgetting a very crucial scene assist on Blackout and scuff Megatron past warranty. The only benefit to being in the middle of Downtown Genericville is that collateral damage sells tickets and looks cool.

 

By the way, if you're still convinced that everything about this scene makes sense, it is just one issue I cherry-picked out of MANY in Mission City alone. Feel free to have a read.

 

I'm not saying that it should have changed. I personally wouldn't change a single part of the downtown climax. But all the circumstances leading up to it are every bit as dumb as any single "dumb but fun" thing that has happened in Transformers, and denying it is a terrible disservice to both the movie franchise and Transformers as a whole.

 

Transformers is dumb and goofy and silly in nature by merit of alien robot life forms that can turn into race cars and air planes. And that's the way it should be.


Edited by Makaru, Jul 07 2014 - 04:16 PM.

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#976 Offline ~JC~

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Posted Jul 07 2014 - 04:08 PM

I saw it. I couldn't decide what was a more ridiculous statement about the movies. That, or Draven's post.

 

(To anyone who doesn't know what it is, it was not actually a negative review, it was a ridiculous claim that the movies had hidden meanings that just made no sense whatsoever.)

 

you're not giving it a chance lol


Edited by ~JC~, Jul 07 2014 - 04:12 PM.

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#977 Offline Draven

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 08:36 AM

I saw it. I couldn't decide what was a more ridiculous statement about the movies. That, or Draven's post.

 

(To anyone who doesn't know what it is, it was not actually a negative review, it was a ridiculous claim that the movies had hidden meanings that just made no sense whatsoever.)

 

This post makes no sense. Back up your claims.

 

 

 

Snip

You've managed to destroy the last of my ability to take anything you say seriously.

 

Your previous statements on other matters, unrelated to Transformers, managed to destroy most of it beforehand.

 

 

See above.

 

 

placeholder

 

 

The Dinobots were named only in other media, but were never called the Dinobots or by name in the movie. Initially I was disappointed by the lack of the original dinosaur forms but they are adding new members in the upcoming toy waves. 


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#978 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 08:50 AM

I'm pretty sure half of the ROTF cast wasn't named in the movie. And it was never clear how many cobstructicons there where. So at least we only have a few unnamed this time.
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#979 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 09:40 AM

I need not explain myself, Draven, if you remember anything you have ever said to me. And I will leave it to you to realize the ridiculousness of what you've said, because you won't understand or believe it coming from someone else.


Edited by Axilus Prime, Jul 08 2014 - 09:40 AM.

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#980 Offline Regicidal Kaiser Manducus

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 03:07 PM

I'm pretty sure half of the ROTF cast wasn't named in the movie. And it was never clear how many cobstructicons there where. So at least we only have a few unnamed this time.

 

Seeing Mixmaster twice was a bit confusing.


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#981 Offline ~JC~

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 08:14 PM

 

Optimus' new look makes him look like he has a very gifted chest area and his new attitude makes him act like an angsty teenager.

 

he was always sort of like that lol

 

remember in ROTF when galloway or whatever his name was basically gave him time out? first thing he did was run to sam and beg him to talk to galloway. and then, in DOTM, he literally just turned into a robot and wouldn't talk to anyone when he found out about the arc. i got more, you need em?

 

edit: and let's be real guys, it isn't hard to decide what the silliest generation of transformers was

 

autobots_surfing_by_chromiagal-d4is1v4.p


Edited by ~JC~, Jul 08 2014 - 08:16 PM.

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#982 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 09:09 PM

The movie Constructicons all had two or three of themselves, so they're probably just a type of random grunt that's above protoforms.

 

Optimus was never once like an angsty teenager. Give the guy some respect, he's saved the planet...four times now? Even one time doing that warrants respect. But many still treated him like scrap for no reason other than he's an alien and they don't trust him because of that. Basically, racism. And yet he still stuck around. An angsty teenager would just turn on the humans guns blazing, or commit suicide, or something. And the fact that you can't see that speaks much more about your maturity than his.


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#983 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 09:33 PM

Lets be honest here. The Bayverse prime is not the best prime we've gotten. But to be fair the characterization was more focused on the humans and look where that went, so it's not surprising. I mean he actually said the words: "Give me your face". Technically, Sam Killed Megatron in the first movie, And revived prime in ROTF. So technically Optimus has saved the world three times. One of which wouldn't have been possible without a human. 

 

If we want to point to a good Optimus, we can look to Animated Optimus. That, in my humble opinion, is what a good Optimus should be.

 

But, seriously,  we need to put the guys who did animated on the live action movies. That would be fun to see.


Edited by ~Shockwave~, Jul 08 2014 - 09:33 PM.

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#984 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 09:46 PM

Ok, three times. And technically, he couldn't have done it alone any of those times. But Optimus is not a solo hero. He has loyal friends, that's part of who he is.

 

Anyway, Animated Optimus is actually far from my favorite. Personally, I like the Bayverse, WFC/FOC, and TFP Optimuses best. They have the same general personality, it's just that the Bayverse one has been pushed harder mentally than the other two have. The other two, if they had been placed under the same circumstances, would have turned out the same way.

 

I actually do like Animated, but its Optimus was a major letdown for me.


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#985 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 10:07 PM

I honestly don't know how to feel about Prime Optimus. I mean, WFC/FOC/Prime Optimus are supposed to be the same guy, but that doesn't add up. WFC/FOC prime got stuff done. Prime Optimus always seemed like a pushover to me... It's not that I don't like him, he just always seemed like he was unfit for his position, but it could be that he's more reserved than the others.  But Bayverse prime just seems like they didn't know how to characterize him. He seems to be vastly differant in each movie.


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#986 Offline ~JC~

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Posted Jul 08 2014 - 10:08 PM

The movie Constructicons all had two or three of themselves, so they're probably just a type of random grunt that's above protoforms.

 

Optimus was never once like an angsty teenager. Give the guy some respect, he's saved the planet...four times now? Even one time doing that warrants respect. But many still treated him like scrap for no reason other than he's an alien and they don't trust him because of that. Basically, racism. And yet he still stuck around. An angsty teenager would just turn on the humans guns blazing, or commit suicide, or something. And the fact that you can't see that speaks much more about your maturity than his.

 

alright well you're insulting me for disagreeing with your opinion of a movie character so i'm revoking your privilege to comment on maturity

 

he's saved the world yeah but during the times when he hasn't saved the world, he doesn't behave with consideration or nobilty like previous incarnations. he threatens people, he brutalizes enemies (he tore a heads guy apart with hooks) and he lies and withholds information as benefits him.

 

 

An angsty teenager would just turn on the humans guns blazing, or commit suicide.

 

this... this is rich.

 

an angsty teenager wouldn't go guns blazing, he'd just threaten to do it and think about it a lot. a psychopath would do it. and an angsty teenager wouldn't commit suicide, a depressed person would. this is exactly why 'angsty teenager' suits him. he bullies people smaller than him (mostly humans) and puts on bravado but isn't above begging when all else fails. he begged for his life against sentinel, he begged sam for his help when he couldn't think of anything else to do.

 

he's a sick fighter and all but he isn't mature, or wise, and he's overly violent.


Edited by ~JC~, Jul 08 2014 - 10:17 PM.

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#987 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 09 2014 - 02:13 AM

I honestly don't know how to feel about Prime Optimus. I mean, WFC/FOC/Prime Optimus are supposed to be the same guy, but that doesn't add up. WFC/FOC prime got stuff done. Prime Optimus always seemed like a pushover to me... It's not that I don't like him, he just always seemed like he was unfit for his position, but it could be that he's more reserved than the others.  But Bayverse prime just seems like they didn't know how to characterize him. He seems to be vastly differant in each movie.

There are too many contradictions for TFP and WFC/FOC to be in the same universe, especially with Dark Energon. It's actually hard to find a fan who believes the stuff Hasbro is putting out about it being one continuity. It's two different continuities to most people, and that's one of the few bandwagons I actually think is worth jumping on.

 

I do agree that TFP Optimus rarely seemed to get things done, though when he was doing it, he was really doing it.

 

Bayverse Prime always maintained the same core personality. It's just that his outward behavior changed under different circumstances. He was still a consistent character, and not only that, in the fourth movie, one could really empathize with him.

 

 

The movie Constructicons all had two or three of themselves, so they're probably just a type of random grunt that's above protoforms.

 

Optimus was never once like an angsty teenager. Give the guy some respect, he's saved the planet...four times now? Even one time doing that warrants respect. But many still treated him like scrap for no reason other than he's an alien and they don't trust him because of that. Basically, racism. And yet he still stuck around. An angsty teenager would just turn on the humans guns blazing, or commit suicide, or something. And the fact that you can't see that speaks much more about your maturity than his.

 

alright well you're insulting me for disagreeing with your opinion of a movie character so i'm revoking your privilege to comment on maturity

 

he's saved the world yeah but during the times when he hasn't saved the world, he doesn't behave with consideration or nobilty like previous incarnations. he threatens people, he brutalizes enemies (he tore a heads guy apart with hooks) and he lies and withholds information as benefits him.

 

 

An angsty teenager would just turn on the humans guns blazing, or commit suicide.

 

this... this is rich.

 

an angsty teenager wouldn't go guns blazing, he'd just threaten to do it and think about it a lot. a psychopath would do it. and an angsty teenager wouldn't commit suicide, a depressed person would. this is exactly why 'angsty teenager' suits him. he bullies people smaller than him (mostly humans) and puts on bravado but isn't above begging when all else fails. he begged for his life against sentinel, he begged sam for his help when he couldn't think of anything else to do.

 

he's a sick fighter and all but he isn't mature, or wise, and he's overly violent.

 

My statement, though rather offensive, was relevant and well-founded. What you said would be valid if I were to say something like "No, you're wrong and you suck." The root of my statement was directly tied to the nature of yours, and they go hand in hand.

 

That was a rather brutal death, but he didn't do it for the sake of making it painful or anything. He saw an opportunity to kill the Decepticon, and took it. That is exactly what I would expect of Optimus Prime. If he were to intentionally make the death torturous when he could make it painless, which he has never done even once, then there would be a problem with it. Also, he has never lied to his allies or withheld information that was relevant. I've watched each movie more than once, I know what goes on in them. Actually, that's something he got angry at the government for doing.

 

Unless you mean he should have mentioned the Seed back during TF1 or something. That would be absurd, though. Completely irrelevant.

 

Overall, it actually seems that you don't know what you're talking about and are actually citing incorrect "facts" or taking things out of context.


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#988 Offline ~JC~

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Posted Jul 09 2014 - 03:11 AM

 

That was a rather brutal death, but he didn't do it for the sake of making it painful or anything. He saw an opportunity to kill the Decepticon, and took it. That is exactly what I would expect of Optimus Prime.

 

do you also expect him also to hunt down and murder every decepticon on the face of the earth like in ROTF because he's never done anything like that before. you've no reason to expect him to be a swashbuckling pirate who kills at every opportunity. (but the fact that you do is telling about you, since you want to play psychologist)

 

and yeah he did get mad at the government for doing that (and he got mad by, again, curling up in alt. mode and giving them the silent treatment. very mature) which makes it all the more hypocritical when he lied about 'respecting their wish for the autobots to leave earth'


Edited by ~JC~, Jul 09 2014 - 03:19 AM.

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#989 Offline Axilus Prime

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Posted Jul 09 2014 - 06:10 AM

The Decepticons were clearly still a threat. In the most recent versions of Transformers, the movies included (yet oddly, TFP excluded), the Decepticons never stop being a threat. To not hunt them down is to endanger the entire world. So, yes. I do expect that, and I cringe when I see things like Optimus just letting the Decepticons get away in G1.

 

Granted in FOC he let them get away after Megatron died, probably hoping they'd go in a new direction with him gone, but that didn't work. After that he never did anything of the sort again.

 

The movies are all set on Earth, after the entire war on Cybertron, so with all evidence in mind, the most likely of scenarios is that movie Optimus went through a similar experience with leaving Decepticons alive. Yes, it's possible that he didn't, but that is certainly not more likely.

 

Judging by his reaction upon transforming, I'm pretty sure he was doing that for the humans' protection. Giving yourself time to cool off is not something an immature person would do. :P

 

He said that if they made that request, he would honor it. They did not formally make that request until DOTM, and they only did it because Sentinel threatened and deceived them into doing it, with promises of destruction if they did not comply, and false promises of safety if they did. That basically invalidates the request because they were not making it entirely of their own free will. Optimus would never consider leaving humanity to their fate under circumstances of that kind.

 

It's come to my attention that you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. Rather than taking every detail into account you look at things from a very shallow perspective without any proper grounds for your statements. Post freely on the matter, I will not respond unless the post overlooks nothing and contains no errors being cited as fact. In their current state, your posts are not worth my time.


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#990 Offline Makaru

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Posted Jul 09 2014 - 09:36 AM

It's come to my attention that you know absolutely nothing about what you are talking about. Rather than taking every detail into account you look at things from a very shallow perspective without any proper grounds for your statements. Post freely on the matter, I will not respond unless the post overlooks nothing and contains no errors being cited as fact. In their current state, your posts are not worth my time.

Okay you know what? This is your first warning. JC said precisely nothing that warranted this remark.

 

You all need to start being more civil in your discussions before I have to beat it into you.


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#991 Offline ~JC~

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Posted Jul 09 2014 - 04:48 PM

thanks mak

 

but anyways that scene in g1 where the autobots went surfing was really silly


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