Sprite Comics Or Hand Drawn Comics?

[P962]

Didn't know where else to put this so what the heck? Anyway, as any member on here who frequents the comics section of the artwork section of BZP's creative outlet knows that for the most part, sprite comics dominate the comics section for the most part. However, among the uncharted waters lies a few hand drawn comics such as kakaru's "nathan8472's banner shop", taka nuvia's "A slightly different tale", my very own hand drawn comic "Bionicle Manga", etc. While sprite comics obviously have their place here in the BZP community, i think hand drawn comics also have a niche as well. Sure, you don't see many of the latter, but considering the mere fact that some of them actually have replies which in turn are mostly coupled with positive feedback( most hand drawn comics ive seen on here in the past have had lukewarm reception), I believe hand drawn comics can be just as good if not better than sprite comics. Anyway, I want to hear y'alls two cents. Which you do prefer or think is better in some ways than the other, Sprite comics or hand drawn comics?

[Peach 00]

Hand-drawn. When I see sprite comics, it emanates laziness for some reason, or that the artist of the comic decides to take an easier road than actually trying to learn and hone their art skills to a point where they could draw comics quite well. There seems to be more humor in hand-drawn comics - the artist has taken the time to draw a very detailed comic, why not add a lot of wit to the dialogue and make a wonderful punchline that makes it enjoyable for the viewer? I never see that attention to detail in sprite comics.Sorry for my honest opinion, but that's the way I see it. I definitely think that artists of hand-drawn comics deserve lot more respect for their time. Artists of sprite comics could say they take time, but all it takes are two clicks: Cut, and paste, continuously for backgrounds and the characters. Text isn't hard to do, and mostly the artists simply take backgrounds from other comics, and maybe edit them the slightest bit to make it original.I'm not trying to troll the topic or offend anybody, but I'm stating my opinion. Everybody's probably heard that argument, and some might think it's a pathetic reason to post, but I'm serious when I say I'm just adding to the discussion of the topic. Sorry for my honesty, but it's better than trying to lie to massage a person's ego or trying to make others feel better, and I could simply tell people my thoughts and add input to the discussion of the thread. Not much else to say but that - so, simplified, I prefer hand-drawn comics (you mentioned Taka Nuvia's, whose comics are my favorite).

[Parazan]

Hand-drawn. Like peach said, Sprites are just downloaded characters with all similar designs and you can finish an entire 1-page comic with Sprites in less that 5 minutes. Lazyness at it's best. I, being an artist, like to make hand-drawn comics. And trust me, my version of Parazan in comic form looks a LOT better than a sprite version of him would.

[Gavla]

As a comic maker myself, I feel the need to leave a post. Even though I'm not sure if this topic will last long.The fellows above me make some decent points, though I've never seen sprite comics as a form of laziness.Not everyone can draw, such as myself. I'm sure they understand that fact. We pixel comic makers stick to what we feel best and more comfortable with. It's how these things go.Now, it is true that one can finish a comic in five minutes. Most newer comic makers can. I and others do not spend five minutes on our work. Sometimes comics can take hours to finish. Usually depending on what is going on in them. Making full action scenes in panels is rather difficult to do. We need to know what size the sprites should be, what effects go with it and other things like that. So it's like a test when making them. Trying to figure out what goes best with each panel. So experienced comic makers take more time.Text in comics is pretty easy, so that much is true. Some do like to add a bit of color behind it though. Not that it matters.Yes we do take panels, but a lot of us make them if we can. It really all depends on the skills of the comic maker. We also have a lot of programs out there to help us. I prefer created backgrounds instead of game backgrounds.Yes, we do cut and paste the sprites. Yes a lot of them look alike. This is where kits come in. There are quite a few kits out there for my fellows and I to pick from. Which.. sort of is the only unique thing among sprites. Chimoru Omega did see a surge of "versions" in which comic makers tried to change the Chimoru look into new stuff.Now.. I've actually dabbled in both hand drawn and sprite. Hand drawn comics do feel more natural with the hand movements. Yet at the same time sprites feel more natural on a computer. Hand drawn feels better with people around me. This again leads back to the first point: We stick to what we feel more comfortable with. Just like how you stick to hand drawn.It's very annoying to read topics like this. Back to back discussions on the subject. They are comics, and people make them. I view both as a type of art. Maybe some don't, but I do. I have no ill feelings for hand drawn artists. So I do agree they need a bit more respect on a Comics Forum that is meant for all types of comics.Yet I doubt that is going to change, the comics forum is 98% sprite based. Or something like that.

[Protodite Karzahni]

If I actually had the talent beyond that of a child, I would say hand drawn. I've imaged a few comics that I'd love to be able to make, but am restricted by my...progress, if we can call it that. With hand drawn, you can get a variety of angles, poses, expressions, settings, all fun to play around with and customise to make solely yours. That said, if you want to produce them quickly, sprites are the way to go. I had a comic series once. I used the Rayg sprites. It was an alright comic series, but I gave up after a while. I need to stop doing that.

[Kakaru]

I personally enjoy varieties of both very much. It all depends on the amount of effort the author chooses to put into their comic. Dents, Dings and Disasters, Tilted, and Soran's Comics are all top-notch examples of artists who take pride in their work and put forth the extra effort to keep viewers interested.I'll admit that I do hold a bit of a bias against the common breed of sprite comics as they're more often than not a way to kill time and make mediocre jokes with no bearing on a plot whatsoever, but there are many exceptional series out there worthy of attention.Oh hey look Gav added a post right above mine. I'm going to flat-out agree with him here: not everyone can draw, and some prefer the digital medium and can spend even longer than graphite artists on their series. I've attempted sprite series several times in the past and can honestly say that there's a fair amount of work to put into creating a good series. Unfortunately it ends up classified as a cheap hack job if the quality isn't blatantly apparent.I don't feel like getting to deep into this since it all comes down to a personal preference and I understand that no matter the comic the author always has a strong sense of pride attached to it. I'd like to see more hand-drawn comics in the future, but I'm okay with the way things are now.

[BenLuke]

Yet I doubt that is going to change, the comics forum is 98% sprite based. Or something like that.

Which is why I, personally, never venture into the Comics forum.

[Paleo]

I prefer hand drawn comics personally, mainly for their similarity to the original concept of a comic.Also, I would warn all members that post here: if anything starts to get flame-y, B6 or another Forum Staff will come in here and close it. It's happened before, and the participants have left some pretty nasty comments. Just a warning. This is a touchy subject for some.

[Superkid11]

Oh lord P6. I hope you know what you've started. I'll give a sincere answer though.For an author who cares in the slightest, you can't just "Finish an entire 1-page comic with sprites in les than 5 minutes". In order to get any sort of attention(ESPECIALLY outside bzpower), a good sprite comic has to actually compensate by actually having good writing. Of course lazy ones will fail, but the same goes for any webcomic regardless of the art. The internet at large is pretty vicious like that. No matter how talented you are in either respect, getting noticed is immensely difficult.Also, while pretty artwork can't really save a bad story, bad artwork can really mess it up and distract from the writing. That's why I used sprites. It's not so much out of laziness, but because my drawing abilities range from passable to garbage and it would really screw up the presentation. Sprites allow people like me to have an acceptable form of presentation that doesn't distract from the writing.At the same time though, I find sprites very limiting sometimes. That's why I'm greatful when I have somebody like Jetice to draw something for me. That was going to happen for an action scene but he really didn't have the time. And then BZPower went down. :VOverall from a reader's standpoint I like both just fine. It all depends on my ability to get engaged and care at all, which pretty art does not by itself do. From an author's standpoint I would most certainly prefer hand-drawn and would probably pay any of my friends who are competent at that to do arts for me rather than using sprites, but sprites work and save me from driving off any potential readers with my sorry excuse for artwork.Also Peach, I should point out that your repetition that it's just your opinion is not a shield from criticism of that opinion. If you're able to criticize people's methods, people can criticize what you say. Just saying. Though you don't sound like quite as much of a snob as Parazan, so congratulations for that at least.(darn a lot of people beat me. I go afk for a few minutes to clean the bathroom and this happens.)

Edited April 24, 2012 by Superkid11

[Peach 00]

Despite the fact it can take hours, the products don't always end up all that humorous as the artists probably think. I view both as art, too - although hours it might take to actually create sprites and the like, I've seen many experienced comic makers who don't exactly have a joke to the comic. Either that or their humor doesn't exactly appeal to me; no offense to the creators themselves, but I suppose it's my sense of taste. Again, not to offend purposefully.Although I'd prefer to practically debase the comics forum for a number of reasons none would fully appreciate, I know I'd get a lot of hate for my comments, because as opposed to a majority, I have a lot of reasons I dislike it instead of liking it. I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments - I hope the topic does not touch flaming, although I realize that Paleo is correct that many nasty discussions have occurred on this subject.Honestly, though - I hope my comments did not offend anyone, I was stating my belief/thought in that scenario. If it did offend anybody, my apologies, but I was being honest, and although truth can sometimes be hurtful to those who disagree, I was just adding input to the discussion. If it was any way nasty or along the border of flaming, I'm sorry.

[Gavla]

I don't feel like getting to deep into this since it all comes down to a personal preference and I understand that no matter the comic the author always has a strong sense of pride attached to it. I'd like to see more hand-drawn comics in the future, but I'm okay with the way things are now.

This is exactly the type of response I wanted to see here. This fellow makes a very good point.I would also like to see more hand-drawn. What's really a shame is how hand drawn and sprite comic makers don't really.. work together. There was a time when it would happen. I remember Taka Nuvia and myself, with other comic makers- all working together to make a comic series. Hand drawn and sprite together as a team.You don't see that anymore. When you did it was very rare.Peach: I thought your post was very engaging into the discussion. As a long time comic maker I saw nothing wrong with it. However, you did make an interesting point that really caught my eye.Which was about the humor. You're right. I myself don't like making humor based comics. I prefer full on plot based comics with decent action and understandable back-story into both the events and characters. I would love to see that happening more.

[Superkid11]

It's cool Peach. I'm with Gavla, there really wasn't anything wrong with your post at all and I apologize for the rather smarmy end to my last post. I can understand why you'd repeat that you're just stating your opinion, but you have to realize that typically makes the hate-response a lot worse, not better. (at least in my experience it has...)Gav I actually totally agree with you on that last point. I also prefer overall plots to just gag a day strips. That's why SK Inn would've pretty much flopped after the intro.

[Kakaru]

Despite the fact it can take hours, the products don't always end up all that humorous as the artists probably think. I view both as art, too - although hours it might take to actually create sprites and the like, I've seen many experienced comic makers who don't exactly have a joke to the comic. Either that or their humor doesn't exactly appeal to me; no offense to the creators themselves, but I suppose it's my sense of taste. Again, not to offend purposefully.Although I'd prefer to practically debase the comics forum for a number of reasons none would fully appreciate, I know I'd get a lot of hate for my comments, because as opposed to a majority, I have a lot of reasons I dislike it instead of liking it. I do not mean to offend anyone with my comments - I hope the topic does not touch flaming, although I realize that Paleo is correct that many nasty discussions have occurred on this subject.Honestly, though - I hope my comments did not offend anyone, I was stating my belief/thought in that scenario. If it did offend anybody, my apologies, but I was being honest, and although truth can sometimes be hurtful to those who disagree, I was just adding input to the discussion. If it was any way nasty or along the border of flaming, I'm sorry.

Nope, I don't see anything wrong with your post as long as you're stating your opinion to add another view to the discussion and not trying to instigate flame. You doo bring up several good points, the biggest one here is that of the humour. I've become jaded to it over the years and I've seen many one-shot joke comics continue long after plot-driven series have fallen into oblivion for lack of replies. It's more than enough to make any serious comic makers angry (though this isn't to say that there aren't serious authors who put great effort into one-shot joke series) and I wouldn't blame anyone for hating Artwork III after the reputation it's gotten over the years. More recently, however, I've seen a significant increase in the amount of excellent comics in AIII, most likely due to those being less dedicated to their work quitting over the downtime.

What's really a shame is how hand drawn and sprite comic makers don't really.. work together. There was a time when it would happen. I remember Taka Nuvia and myself, with other comic makers- all working together to make a comic series. Hand drawn and sprite together as a team.

This so much. As cliche as it seems, why can't we all just get along? There no reason for members to hold grudges against each other over their preferred medium, and collaborating to combine the two can result in some incredibly dynamic comics with legendary potential. I'd love to see more of this if we could all lay down our arms and admit that both techniques have their advantages and pitfalls, and neither can be outright labeled as better than the other.

[GAY AS HECK]

It all depends on the quality. You can get really poorly drawn comics with little to no story at all and have sprite comics with deep and rich story with real backgrounds (that can also be photoshopped to create more exotic environments), lighting effects, shadows, highlights, reflections, glowing effects, etc. added to the sprites.However, there are also very cheaply made sprite comics with no coherency whatsoever and hand-drawn comics that are beautifully detailed with intriguing plots and amazing use of techniques like perspective and crosshatching that just blow everyone away.Saying one is better than another is stupid.

[Kakaru]

Saying one is better than another is stupid.

That's the most strongly worded pacifistic comment I've ever seen. Way to be objective without causing potential for flame.Yes, I do honestly think this is the end-all for this argument. Both techniques have ups and downs and it depends on how the author uses them. The end.

[Ziko]

Well, I've been writing this for a while, so I'm going to go ahead and post it. =PTo answer the topic's question, I don't really have a preference between hand-drawn and sprite comics. I can read either type and like the comic if they're executed well.As for the real "what do you think of sprite comics" topic, I'd have to say that I don't see any problems with them. Sure, not all of them are funny, even if they're trying to be, and many of them aren't graphic masterpieces by any stretch. However, there's also not malicious, and they don't actively try to steal people's attention away from comics made with other mediums. I think people generalize too much, and even if they go into AIII on one day and look at comics from a bunch of different topics, I don't think they have the full idea of what's in the forum.Naturally, there are people that use sprites because they're "easy." I don't know how many people that is, but it's not important to me. To me, people make sprite comics because they enjoy doing so (at least, I would think so--I know I did), and they post them to display their work; I think it's great that those people found an activity they enjoy and have somewhere like BZP's Comics forum as a place to show their work.With that in mind, I don't like it when people go around saying sprite comics should be banned from the site. People [for the most part] come here to have fun, and if that fun involves posting sprite comics that don't break any of the site's rules, I don't see why they should not be allowed to do so.As for the idea that hand-drawn comics get less attention than sprite comics, I think that's probably true. I don't believe that the cause is people thinking that sprite comics are "better," though, and I don't think people mean any disrespect. I think certain sprite comics garner more attention because they've amassed a group of people who like the series and post in those topics. They're not purposely ignoring other comics; they just have a habit of reading certain things. I've hear of similar situations in other creative forums--topics by some members get more attention because they're more "popular" or considered "better" for whatever reasons. There's a similar dynamic in Comics, although it involves different members and groups.Incidentally, I do believe the assertion that large amounts of effort can, and often do, go into sprite comics, perhaps more effort than some believe. I also don't think that using any particular medium automatically makes a comic funnier. However, since both of those have been discussed and probably articulated by other better than I could have, I'll just leave my thoughts there.Anyway, as a summary, I feel that the comic makers on BZP should make their comics in whatever way they want and enjoy.

[Lime Paradox]

Personally I really don't care whether something is hand-drawn or uses sprites as long as it actually looks good.

[Superkid11]

Sprite comics getting more attention than hand-drawn is only a trend on BZPower, where sprite comics are pretty much a subculture. Very, very different in the internet at large. Getting any webcomic going and getting even a small iota of attention is a monumental task, let alone getting anyone to pay attention to a sprite comic.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Superkid11

[Soran]

I find both styles to be good and time well spent for their goals. I've experienced with both hand drawn comics and sprite comics so I know a little about each.One of the things I am annoyed about is the sprite comic stereotype of being 'the lazy way to make comics' or 'not real comics'. I feel that sprite comics are a way for some people to express themselves even if "they can't draw". Sprite comics seem to be hated on because people feel that they don't spend a lot of time on their comics. I am going to say that that statement is false. There are some sprite comic artists (Kahi for example) who spend a lot of time on their comics. Although the sprites themselves don't take long, other features in the comics take quite a bit of time. Just as a hand-drawn comic artist practices their skills at drawing or shading, sprite comic artists do the same with other features, whether they be things like speech bubbles, or backgrounds, or specific effects that are done. Sprite comics aren't just 5 minutes and you're done, depending on the quality you want they can take from 3 hours to a full day.Hand-drawn comics I feel are equally as good as sprite comics. Although there are a few things I would like to clear up based on my own opinion. Hand-drawn comics don't actually take that long. Although there are different forms of hand drawn comics as is the same with sprite comics, they range from different times. Going off of a short hand drawn comic, one being around 6 panels, it will take quite a bit of time obviously. Although hand drawn comics drawn with an actual pencil or pen or the likes will normally take longer then a hand drawn comic drawn on a computer, the difference isn't that much. I feel that if a person puts forth the time and effort for a hand drawn comic then I feel they are doing a good job with what they're doing. I wouldn't say that hand drawn take longer then sprite comics, because it honestly depends on how 'pretty' you want it to look, but they do take some time.I'll leave my thoughts with that because my brain hurts I can't think of anything else to add.~SoranEdit: I also agree with Emkay.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Soran

[P962]

Sprite comics getting more attention than hand-drawn is only a trend on BZPower, where sprite comics are pretty much a subculture. Very, very different in the internet at large. Getting any webcomic going and getting even a small iota of attention is a monumental task, let alone getting anyone to pay attention to a sprite comic.

^ Well spoken superkid11. That's one of the internets unwritten rules. Of course, that can apply to most anything in general. Forgive me for going off topic for a moment, but in the popular PS3 franchise LittleBigPlanet, there are close to 7 million levels in total, but are all of them good? Heck no!!! However, much like how sprite comics are the norm for BZP, copied levels in LBP that everyones already played a bajillion times are the status quo for the cool levels page. Now like some of y'all have said, there are good sprite comics and bad sprite comics and ill admit ive read a few that were actually more than decent for my tastes, but what grinds my gears is that much like how quality levels in LBP are "shunned" in favor of the same ol drivel everybody's used to, hand drawn comics( and perhaps even some sprite comics that are actually funny and not just stupid) drown in the ocean called Artwork 3 while subpar sprite comics dominate the top of the page! Like i've said before, i've read a few above mediocre sprite comics and i'm not trying to stereotype sprite comics in general either,( Besides, if it was the other way, people would probably be shouting unfair that hand drawn comics reign supreme) but again, it really gets under my skin that people would rather chow down on terrible comics rather than take the time to appreciate the underdogs that are actually making an effort to prepare quality work for the public to enjoy and give their comics a try. Of course, that just seems to be society in general when it comes to anything. New lil wayne album? "OMG!!!!!! I CANT WAITZ TOO TWEET ABOUTZ THISSSSSSS!!!!!" Some new musical talent trying to hit the big time? "Who the heck are they?" or "their music is garbage to my ears! rap is soooooooo much betterz!!!! lol" Anyway...thats the end of my rant. now if you'll excuse me, i need to go drink something so i cant refresh my exhausted throat.

[Gavla]

That post. ^ I've been talked to plenty of times about such a subject.You need to understand that the readers of the ArtWork III topics will post in the ones they actually enjoy.People like Kahi and I can't force our readers to read other works, they do so if they want. They comment if they want. If they don't want to comment on a topic that's fine.I think the readers have very specific tastes when it comes to comics. They want high quality, perfect spelling and such. Some don't care about such things. (Like myself.)So naturally, like flies to fruit, they swarm over the topics they prefer. If there is a topic they don't like.. they avoid it. It's as simple as that.Some just don't post, like me. I like to read comics yet I prefer to not post. Also these are comics based around a toy. Let's not take it that seriously.

[~kh]

Aw man. Someone just had to go open up this can of worms again, didn't they?I've been here for too many of these to count, and while I've done a ton of arguments refuting and objecting and whatnot to it, basically, it really boils down to this: comics, by and large, are an extension of me. And by me I mean you. Or anyone else who makes one, really. It's something that really goes into any sort of creative measure you do on here, at least, the ones you're really invested in. And for me, that's comics. My work not only belongs to me, but in a way, it sort of is me. And that sort of leads into this whole upside/downside of criticism thing that's not really worth getting into now.But back to my point. The last few debates I was here for didn't really end too well, and it's cool that this one seems to be going on swimmingly for the moment. But the reason this always goes down in flames (literally, in some cases) is because someone always brings up the fact that sprite comics don't take any or a little amount of effort. It's sort of a slap in the face, I guess, especially if you're someone who sort of just does this sort of thing way after you've sort of lost interest in the BIONICLE story or parts of the site that you used to go to or whatever, but still make these things. It's sort of a slap in the face because they're you, and saying you don't take any sort of effort is sort of like saying that that part of you isn't worth all that much.Okay, okay, maybe I'm sort of reading into this waaaaay too much. But after a long while here, I've sort of begun to get it. I've sort of gotten why a lot of people look down at the previously-known-as AIIIers, why we sort of have this bad rap around the place. It's because this is what they see: whenever someone does something like this, a crowd of us will come bearing down. "Y u no liek sprites" and "we do a lot of work" all that goes around the place and then it sort of degenerates from there. And I can get why it would seem like we're a fickle bunch, a subforum of people who can't take criticism and start arguments over something that, objectively speaking, isn't really worth flaming someone over.But that's what I'm getting down to. We put some good, hard work into those things. More than many people would think. And saying that it's not really worth all that much sort of gets us (or maybe just me) kind of indignant. I know that to a lot of people it may not look that much, but there's a lot in my series that I myself sort of use it to convey a lot of stuff about me, both consciously and subconsciously.And it also doesn't really help that it usually comes from people that either I haven't see try it, or haven't see trying at the same level that some of us do it at. Some I've seen haven't even read a lot of the better series around. That doesn't invalidate their opinions, of course; you don't need to be a cook to know that a dish tastes bad. But when everything is generalized to the same level of quality, or even worse, to the same level of effort, that just really gets us (or again, maybe just me) kind of riled up about it. When you get down to it, comics are really the same. They use the same concept. Juxtaposed pictorial images in deliberate sequence intended to convey information and/or produces an aesthetic response in the reader. Comics do not need to be segregated among the different styles that they use and have that segregation be used as a standard of quality. This attitude isn't even just restricted to here; it's done all the time in some "higher art" circles. Animated films and live action films. Video games and art forms in general. Heck, even comics and literature in general. It's a debate that people a lot smarter than I have have gone over again and again, but honestly, I support the notion that all of them can be at the same level of art. Animated films can be on the same level of art that live action films are. Comics and graphic novels can be on the same level of art that traditional literature are. Video games can be at the same level of art that whatever else you want to compare it to can be. And sprite comics can be at the same level of art that hand drawn are.Is every movie/video game/comic at the same level? Of course not. That's pretty stupid to say. But the art forms themselves certainly can be up to that challenge. And I know a ton of sprite comics out there that could not even come close to what some hand drawn comics could do. But I've also seen some hand drawn comics that can't even compare to what some sprite comics are/were doing. That's why they are and always will be equal to me: because there's always be good ones and bad ones. Comparing one example of one to the other is perfectly fine and in fact should be done, but as a whole? I don't think that's altogether a good standard of quality.And it happens in other creative areas on here too. I've seen some writers look down on fanfiction. I've seen some pen and paper RPGers look down on TBRPGs. Heck, I've even seen some LEGO System MOCists look down on BIONICLE MOCs. Okay, so there's some that are worse than others, and there may also may be some aspects that don't take as much time for one as it would the other, but there's still a lot of work that goes into these.Oh god, this rant has probably reached bonesiii's level, hasn't it? I didn't expect this to go on for this long. You've probably stopped reading at this point too, anyhow.So I'll just end sort of rehashing what I said the last time. Criticize my work. Criticize my series. Criticize the fact that I didn't put all that much effort into making this funny, or making that effect look good, or that text readable. Criticize anything you dislike. Criticize it because you just don't like sprites. Don't diss off the work put into it (at least, the work you assumed was put into it) because it's a sprite comic. I know there's some/a lot you can make a good guess at (yes, I've seen them and yes, they probably didn't have all that much work put into them at all), but keep in mind that the same isn't true all the way across the board. And of course, there's much more to making them than meets the eye.And yes, sorry for all the pointless arguments and flame wars and all that stuff in the past that I and a ton of other people had a good hand in. Sure, it was an extension of us, blah blah blah, but when it really comes down to it, it shouldn't be serious business.Huh. I actually said that about this argument and meant it. A former staff member would be so proud.

Edited April 25, 2012 by insidiousLawyer

[P962]

That post. ^ I've been talked to plenty of times about such a subject.You need to understand that the readers of the ArtWork III topics will post in the ones they actually enjoy.People like Kahi and I can't force our readers to read other works, they do so if they want. They comment if they want. If they don't want to comment on a topic that's fine.I think the readers have very specific tastes when it comes to comics. They want high quality, perfect spelling and such. Some don't care about such things. (Like myself.)So naturally, like flies to fruit, they swarm over the topics they prefer. If there is a topic they don't like.. they avoid it. It's as simple as that.Some just don't post, like me. I like to read comics yet I prefer to not post.Also these are comics based around a toy. Let's not take it that seriously.

I understand where you are coming from Gavla, but I just had to get that off my chest y'know? Also, I have to agree with Kakaru. Seems like the "dataclysm" like i call it has helped to have pave the way for some great new series in the comics section of A3 which regardless of whether it's hand-drawn or sprite comics is always a good thing. At the end of the day, we artists and spriters can't put a gun to readers heads and tell them to read our comics, but what we can do to help our work get the recognition it deserves is to first and foremost spread the word. It's like a domino effect. You tell something to someone and they'll tell their friends who will tell their friends, and well...i'm sure you know where I'm going with this If nothing else, update your comic like i do even if the majority of posts in the thread are yours lol. While I'm at it, perhaps someone should PM whoever's in charge of watching over A3 and the comics section of BZP and see if a review thread can be made in which all the comics are reviewed and critiqued on lets say a weekly or bi weekly basis. I think it could be a good way to help newcomers to BZP and people who aren't much for the comics on here know whats great, whats good, and whats meh...also, if a comic is meh, we should give the creator some advice to help them improve so it doesn't seem like we're just being a bunch of no good turds

[Superkid11]

Also these are comics based around a toy. Let's not take it that seriously.

Based on a discontinued children's construction toy even. Still, this is a debate that goes waaay beyond BZPower, though this is a place that uniquely favors sprite comics. Anywhere else and you'd only get a flicker of support.

[JiMing]

When I see sprite comics, it emanates laziness for some reason, or that the artist of the comic decides to take an easier road than actually trying to learn and hone their art skills to a point where they could draw comics quite well.

There may be an amazing amount of great artists in the world, but not everyone is a Michelangelo. Not everyone has the means to make hand-drawn comics either, they might not have a scanner, the artistic skill expected, or maybe even the paper required to draw on. People who use sprites are not always lazy or unwilling to learn, some simply do not have the means to make hand-drawn comics.

Sorry for my honest opinion, but that's the way I see it. I definitely think that artists of hand-drawn comics deserve lot more respect for their time. Artists of sprite comics could say they take time, but all it takes are two clicks: Cut, and paste, continuously for backgrounds and the characters. Text isn't hard to do, and mostly the artists simply take backgrounds from other comics, and maybe edit them the slightest bit to make it original.

Sure, it could only take two clicks to make a comic, but some of the greatest sprite comic makers go beyond that. Have you ever taken a look at Kahi's comics? He puts in an amazing amount of detail, in the lighting, the shadows, and that cannot be achieved with just "copy and paste". His comics could easily take the same amount of time (or more) that hand-drawn artists claim they take. Of course, not everyone does this, but you are generalizing it so that it seems that is how everyone makes sprite comics that way. Artists don't deserve extra praise in my book, because not everyone is Taka Nuvia or Kakaru, and people simply do to the extent of their resources. I for one, have abysmal art skills and no scanner, but I have my imagination. And that's what matters most, isn't it?Comics are a visual medium, but the writing is just as important. I don't read a comic for it's art, but for it's writing. A genuinely funny sprite comic gets as much praise as a funny hand-drawn comic. I know this may sound ridiculous, but the Comics forum is my favorite place on this website. It's a little haven where people can just go and be free to do whatever they want, read whatever they want, be it a comedic or dramatic comic, and just be who they are for a little while. I've opened up to other forums, but Comics is still where I like to hang out best. Edited April 25, 2012 by Belonephobia

[Peach 00]

Guys, we said we'd stay away from flaming. By simply trolling me, you're making this worse. By calling me stupid, prejudice, and bias, you're both being immature. I'm going to make a simple threat: If one, yes, one person says another word about me or mentions my name, tries to troll or insult me, I will have the topic reported. I've had enough in one day of people getting on my case, and one more person mentioning my name will bring me to the point where I'm probably going to end up screaming at an innocent bystander in all of this.I'll say this once and only once: I get the point of comics. It's cute that you think that I'm prejudice and bias, and I realize that not everybody is Michelango or Leonardo Da Vinci, and not everybody can paint The Vitruvian Man or the Mona Lisa. I'm not a blind, stupid, ignorant little four-year-old. You're making yourself look like that by not realizing that the point of what I was saying was that I was being honest, I didn't mean to offend anyone with my opinion. Everybody understood that, and two of you were the exception.I get the point, guys. You don't need to write five-page long posts for me to get that. I've understood those points for a long time, and just because I disagree with those points doesn't give you guys the right to get on my case. I've made my threat, and I've made my point. By trolling me and provoking me into posting, you've not only made this topic a flame war, you've broken the rules not once but three times, repeat three times.

[Sumiki]

Guys, this is starting to get rather out of hand. Let's remember to be civil here, k? K. Trolling and degrading other by name calling does absolutely nothing.On that note, I don't see anything inherently wrong with either hand-drawn comics or sprite comics. They are still comics, but they are variants on the same art form. I happen to prefer hand-drawn comics slightly, but that's my preference; I see it as a much less limiting form of comic making - but remember, these are good hand-drawn comics versus good sprite comics. If a comic sucks, then it sucks - and the medium it is created in is a quality that does not whatsoever redeem it.

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

I prefer sprite comics myself, but love to see really well done hand drawn comics. I do sprite comics cause it's what I am good at, and I don't have a scanner for anything hand drawn.: Little unsure, but wouldn't this be better as a poll?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen

[JiMing]

Peach 00, I didn't mean to insult you. I just like to defend my interests whenever I feel it's being attacked.That being said, I believe you also indirectly insulted me and Kahi as well, by saying we where making ourselves look like an "blind, stupid, ignorant little four-year-old". If that's not an insult, I'm not sure what is.I feel as though there are people who want to have Comics closed off to talented artists, and I don't want that. I feel that Comics should be a medium anyone can try, regardless if they are using sprites or drawing them.

[dotcom]

As others have said, it comes down to the inherent quality of any work. Generally speaking, a good sprite comic is worth no less than a good hand-drawn comic, and the same is true in reverse. Bad comics are bad comics, no matter the medium used. At the same time, I do have a preference towards hand-drawn comics, and I do think that a sizable portion of sprite comics are, on the whole, rather poor in quality. I'm not saying all sprite comics are this way, or even most, but the fact remains, at least in this fandom, one can most often see beginner series with pretty bad layout, sequencing and graphics. Point of the matter is, the most rudimentary sprite comics are easy to make, so a lot of people can do whatever without putting too much effort, and it shows at times. It's the better comics, in which people take time to make a good strip, and coupled with good humor, that can be really enjoyable. And that is all I really have to say about that.

[Peach 00]

Peach 00, I didn't mean to insult you. I just like to defend my interests whenever I feel it's being attacked.That being said, I believe you also indirectly insulted me and Kahi as well, by saying we where making ourselves look like an "blind, stupid, ignorant little four-year-old". If that's not an insult, I'm not sure what is.I feel as though there are people who want to have Comics closed off to talented artists, and I don't want that. I feel that Comics should be a medium anyone can try, regardless if they are using sprites or drawing them.

Thank you. I'm sorry I insulted both of you, but I've been irritated lately. Maybe I should not have brought my irritability into the discussion, but this just made me more angry. And I don't want that either - I'm not a big fan of it personally, but I don't want it closed off. It's a part of the forum I can't change, and although I don't like it, I don't want it to be gone from the site because it's another creative section of the site that allows people to show off their talent.But hey, we've both made our points. We might not agree, but I am definitely sorry for insulting both of you. It just felt like it was the straw that broke the camel's back and when I saw both comments. I probably overreacted, but I'm glad that it didn't turn out any worse - anyhow, let's move on with the discussion. It got bad, and I would prefer it if it didn't get close to that again.

[Superkid11]

Quite frankly I'm amazed this discussion has remained at least partially civil for as long as it has. I don't remember previous threads about this topic fairing quite so well.But yeah. We must again take our time to remind ourselves that we're talking about fanwork based on a discontinued line of children's construction toys. No need to be so serious everybody.

[The Venom]

I've worked with both styles before, but I prefer sprite comics. It's become more of a passion for me,considering I've done my own spriting over the years.Though, in a general comparison, I think both styles are equally good.They both take time and effort to make something good out of.Saying every sprite comic is nothing but lazy copy paste is like saying every hand drawn comic is just stick figures and badly drawn panels. XPI can appreciate others' opinions, though as to which style they prefer.But I don't appreciate being called a lazy, untalented sprite comic maker,like how the majority of BZP sees the Comics forum to be filled with.Seriously. Be a bit more open-minded.(Not directed towards you, Peach00. )-V-

Edited April 25, 2012 by The Venom

[Eljay: Toa of Mangosteen]

Quite frankly I'm amazed this discussion has remained at least partially civil for as long as it has. I don't remember previous threads about this topic fairing quite so well.But yeah. We must again take our time to remind ourselves that we're talking about fanwork based on a discontinued line of children's construction toys. No need to be so serious everybody.

It is civil, but I swear one day someone is gonna snap at that whole "discontinued line of children's construction toys" thing. I need not remind anyone, a lot of the people here are adults.Also, as a friend mentioned elsewhere, it'd be fun to see roles reversed. Sprite comic makers make hand drawn comics, and visa versa.And I agree with Venom.

[Peach 00]

(Not directed towards you, Peach00. )-V-

Now that made me laugh. I get where you're going. It comes across as that sometimes that some people seem lazy with their work, but I don't think that implies every comic maker, but simply a minority (so about twenty or thirty people maximum). Even those members aren't necessarily untalented, but they just don't have the initiative to work longer on their work, or that's how it appears sometimes. I'm probably wrong, but you get the point I'm making. But yeah, it's nice to have a joke after what happened earlier. =P

[Mesonak]

Quite frankly I'm amazed this discussion has remained at least partially civil for as long as it has. I don't remember previous threads about this topic fairing quite so well.But yeah. We must again take our time to remind ourselves that we're talking about fanwork based on a discontinued line of children's construction toys. No need to be so serious everybody.

It is civil, but I swear one day someone is gonna snap at that whole "discontinued line of children's construction toys" thing. I need not remind anyone, a lot of the people here are adults.

But Eljay, we are part of a forum based on a line of discontinued children's construction toylines as well as several ongoing children's construction toylines, so that demeans the value of all the discussions we have and stuff we create, yo. Get with the program. We must keep reminding you of this for years and years until it's drilled into your skull. It just comes with the territory.My thoughts are that experience is the gateway to understanding. Lack of experience locks the door to understanding. It works both ways, and leads to the same general consensus. There's a minority and a majority in the comics forum, as there is in all of the creative forums, and to judge based on the minority shows a lack of understanding. To actually go there, observe, and take notice of the amount of work which goes into the successful (and some overlooked) comics series really gives you some clarity of thought.To say that the comics forum as a whole lacks a semblance of quality and visible effort really shows that the minority of bad quality comics is where the viewpoint comes from. If you look at the best, or even the average, even if you prefer hand-drawn as a whole, you can at least see that sizable amounts of effort go into good quality comics. You can choose to make bad quality sprite comics devoid of effort, but you won't get far if you do. Which is why I kinda felt the need to make a post here; I disagree with judging by the minority.It's like saying "Everything in the comics forum is made in paint, is poorly crafted, and all the jokes are about pie." That's an outdated viewpoint, and one that doesn't really hold up today. It may still exist but in incredibly small quantities.Overall, I'd say that both can be enjoyable, and neither are really better tan the other. It all comes down to the execution, and it's hard to put a blanket cover over either one and say "_____ is much better than the other.' Too many variables, too many stylistic differences between comic makers of both types, far too much variety. One of the reasons why it's a good forum. -Mesonak Edited April 25, 2012 by Mesonak

[GSR]

Holy cats, I did not know what I was getting into when I clicked on this topic.I can see where Peach is coming from; speaking broadly, 'sprite comic on the internet' rarely has a good connotation to it. And from what I've gathered from her posts, she particularly dislikes BZP's sprite comics for her own reasons - which is totally fine. But at the same time, it's like anything else - you get out of it what you put into it. Doesn't matter if it's a sprite comic, hand-drawn comic, artwork, piece of writing, whatever. In an ideal world, you choose a medium or theme because it best fits what you want to do, and then you go and make it.Someone earlier mentioned writers that look down on fanfic. They've probably got a point. But what the hey, twice now I've gotten in the mood to write a fanfic, so I did. It's what worked for me and what I wanted to do. I put in as much effort as I felt they deserved at the time, and then I sent them off. They ain't perfect (heck, I wanted to tear apart "Fractures" about two days after writing it), but they were good enough for me at the time, and hopefully a few other folks were able to enjoy them as well.More to the original topic, I do hold some preference for hand-drawn, simply because after seeing many, many spriteworks I'm now curious to see Bionicle in a different style.

Edited April 25, 2012 by GSR

[Laughing Man]

While I very rarely venture into the comics realm at all, the way I see it it doesn't really matter so long as it's good. Generally I prefer hand-drawn if it's well done, as I personally find it more aesthetically pleasing, but both styles have their merits. I used to hate sprite comics with a passion before I wised up and realized that it isn't an inherently horrible medium. It's best to judge something like that by the sum of its parts rather than simply what type of art it uses. It's true that since sprites are generally taken from one (or more) of a few major kits it can feel a bit samey, but oftentimes the comic maker can utilize them with their own unique style and flair that makes it a lot more creative and interesting.

[Akaku: Master of Flight]

As a maker of both Sprite and Hand drawn comics, I have to say, well, it depends; Generally I have to go with Hand-drawn for comics in general; You dont see the professionals using sprites for there comics in marvel and DC, eh?But honestly, what mainly helps make a comic in my opinion is the plot behind it. Hand drawn or sprite, if it sucks, it sucks, and if its funny, its funny. You can be the best artist in the world; but if the story makes no sense, it probably wont amount to any well plotted out sprite series. Drawing though does free one of alot of the limitations sprites have, such as being able to draw literally any pose or expression you want; each unique from eachother. You can make facial features and diffrences in threre structure and posture to make two characters with exactly the same armour, masks and color be perfactly destinguishable from another; It is kinda' ironic that the extra amount of detail used by drawing can actually result in making it alot easier to show emotions or actions.To me, the sheer amount of more things you can do with drawing compared to sprites really pays off and adds to the atmosphere and feel of the comic.The other thing i like about drawing is that It gives you your own style, your own personal kit in a sense; what makes your comic look diffrent from the next persons, quality and plot aside.I guess spriting is good for the people who either want to make comics but cant, because they arent capable of doing so, or simply dont want to go through the long effort of learning how to draw and making the comics more as a hobby then anything.That being said, I cant imagine that sprite comics are whats going to get you a job. Your ability to make a decent plot or use computer programs might, but your just not going to see them making money at a store or even much as a webcomic with merchandise.Now, as far as personal opinions go, i mainly prefer drawing more because i find compared to my sprite comics it gives my a much greator sense of satisfcation when there done, and doesnt get as repetitive to me when im creating them compared to sprites.. (I find sprite comics generally take a little less time, but in the end it all more or less evens out..)And... I greatly do mean no offence to any of you sprite comic makers out there, but generally I find the hand-drawn comic communitys (mainly offsite, but it still more or less applys here) to have alot more positive atmosphere; I'd rather do stuff with other comic makers (Talking more in general then just close friends) then compete against them.So yeah, thats my thoughts. I'm not looking for an argument or anything, just thought i'd say what i think about them.-To tired to read other posts to see if his points have already been stated or argued-*lol corrected one of probably a bazillion mistakes--Akaku: Master of Flight

Edited April 25, 2012 by Akaku: Master of Flight

[Tavakai]

You're comparing apples and oranges here. It's basically the same as anything else, like, say, humor versus plot. Some people like one, some people like the other, some people like both. I've been around the comics forum for over four years; I've seen good sprite comics, I've seen bad sprite comics; I've seen good hand drawn comics, I've seen bad hand drawn comics. I actually don't care. And I actually have done both if you count vectoring as "hand drawn." If one of those was better, clearly I'd stick with it instead of switching between them.I really feel, though, that there's a bias of some people against sprite comics, the fact that using a sprite kit means they put less work into the final product. I don't really think this argument really makes sense in regard to whether something is better--if you're making something, and it's not good art (I'm not even referring to anything here, merely bringing this up as an example), it doesn't matter how long you spent on it or how much work went into it, it's still bad art. Quality and amount of work and time aren't necessarily related.And don't forget, not everyone just goes and grabs a sprite kit and starts copypasting it into their comics. Some people actually make their own sprites. And others, even though they don't make a totally new sprite kit, add on to existing ones or sprite props related to their comics.Additionally, there's more to comics than just how the characters are represented. There's the text, the background, the plot and/or humor, etc. Picking out just one category and judging the entire thing based off said category isn't really that good of a thing to do either.Anyway, as for the whole "sprite comics don't take effort thing," let's come back to that. Sure, you can spend two minutes sticking some sprites on a blank background and typing in some text. Or you can do what one of my friends did and spend like 20 hours or something on a sprite comic (which was heavy with special effects, and put a lot of thought into how to arrange things and word the text) and still not be done. You can do what I've done, and compensate for the low speed it takes to make panels by making comics with a ton of them, which I've done on several occasions (most notably a 564-panel comic, and most recently my 200-panel Christmas comic; on the latter my panel output was about sixty per day).Hand drawn things, I think, get the preference by people because they're more traditional, and therefore, "actual art." Sprite comics, however, came out of video games, so they're fairly recent--and since video games are generally constantly upgrading their style to be more realistic, meaning they have fewer and fewer sprites, this would give the impression to some people that sprites are therefore inferior to hand drawn things, and other "actual art." But no, sprites have actually become their own form of art. Somehow, that pixelly feel, those blocks that look anywhere from vaguely like what they represent to just a little bit blockier--somehow that's become pretty popular. Otherwise, you wouldn't still see them around. Take VVVVVV, for example. Haven't heard of it? It's a platformer game that came out in 2010. But wait, don't the graphics make it look like it's from the 1980s or something? And yet it was made in the past couple years? Yes. It certainly could have been done with much better graphics, but it wasn't because that style is something people enjoy.So anyway, like I've been saying, don't try to compare the two like this. It just doesn't work. I'll also take a short moment here to speak out against people who say that sprites are better than hand drawn, for the same reason; I'm not going to expand on that though because it's much less prevalent (there may actually be some in this topic but I don't know because I just skimmed it a little) and mostly a reactionary thing to the people who think hand drawn comics are better.