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Major Confusions On Elements?


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#121 Offline VeoiTheRascal

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Posted Jun 30 2012 - 11:28 PM

I think what High Voltage is referring to is Takanuva's ability to create hard light holograms.
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#122 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 30 2012 - 11:35 PM

I think what High Voltage is referring to is Takanuva's ability to create hard light holograms.

But those aren't soild objects. If I reach out my hand to touch a hologram he made, it will go right through it. It's just light. This is Bionicle, remember, not Star Trek. :)

Edited by fishers64, Jun 30 2012 - 11:36 PM.

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#123 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 01:07 AM

And I think greg specifically said that toa of air need some sort of glider to fly.

Alright, that makes sense, along the lines of only being able to use so much EE at once normally (without a Nova blast). But that is within the rules I was using; just as Vakama had to have a Toa Tool designed to be mounted like a jetpack to fly, a Tool setup as gliders, or just plain glider wings regardless of Tool-ness (lol coinage) is allowed. If a Le-Toa has such a thing then they can fly.True, though, that this is less adept at flight then Gravity. But again, this all fits within the intention that different elements are better or worse at different things. :)For the most it just comes down to basic logic; if Fire can do something in normal physics than it's probably going to do it in Bionicle, or Gravity, etc. (The exceptions being special rules like the Psionics limits, and of course the whole idea of turning EE into elements is fictional, etc.)

Toa of iron, magnetism and gravity could fly of their own accord.

Wait, so you're saying it's confirmed that Toa of Magnetism can just make a magnetic field, magnetize their own armor, and hover directly? That my earlier idea of hovering above opposite-pole magnetic metal isn't needed? It does make sense on second thought, but just wanna be sure. :)

And besides, if you really wanted to save EE you could just use a Kadin :shrugs: .

Well, either way you save EE compared to using no mask power. As for Kadin vs. Miru although this really isn't the topic for it, the Miru gives the power to hover in place, and since Le-Toa can use a little bit of EE to move forward, this gives them more control than Kadin would. But yes, technically Kadin would allow flight with no EE, but then any Toa can do that, not just Le, heh.Incidently, the Kadin is another reason Gravity isn't overpowered, since it is possible for all Toa to fly.fishers, yes, it was Vakama's elemental power of Fire enabling him to fly; there was no levitation power involved. You're probably thinking of Lhikan's hoverboard; that had an extra levitation power. I don't recall if it was a natural function of Vakama's Tool; primarily it doubled as a Kanoka launcher, which would work for any element Toa that used it, but the designs -were- fiery so it may have been intended for Ta-Toa, and the third function of jetpack would make sense. But I think he would have to have a special backpack type harness thingamabob to attach it to, which might not have come with the Tool, not sure.

And it probably wouldn't have been a black hole, no, black holes can't be made from planets. Well, theoretically they can, but no known force has the ability to make a planet that dense.

Well we should note here that Spherus/Bara Magna was much, much bigger than Earth, and under Bionicle physics who knows? Still, I think it's safe to say it's much smaller than a typical yellow star which that system's star is, like our sun, which doesn't have enough mass to form a natural black hole, so yeah.

Even if the Mata Nui robot could create a black hole, I don't think Teridax intended to create one with this gravity blast. Black holes can be dangerous to giant robots.

Yarr. There's a simple answer I should have thought of lol.

Also, I can't help but think everyone's getting bogged down on gravity and plasma. So I have a question about light. Namely, how does one create solid objects out of it?

I think that's something that's usually not explained, and just handwaved, due to the general implausibility of it, like in Halo.

Sigh @ non-physics-geekdom. :PI'll explain in a moment lol...

As for the light question, you mean like Solek did? I don't think those objects were solid, exactly, more like a electromagnetic force field that held a shape.

Solidity is created by electromagnetic forces. Atoms use them naturally. This would be an artificial version of solidity, but the term just means that things can't pass through. Don't overthink it, lol. And it's known that light has pushing power; it's just that it's always in high motion and in too small of amounts, in real life. (Even so, solar sails are possible, and that's been used a lot in science fiction.)But if, hypothetically, you could hold light still (which is arguably what is sort of happening with electrons), and had enough of it or had it in the right "frequency" or pattern, it could act like an impenetrable wall.

I think what High Voltage is referring to is Takanuva's ability to create hard light holograms.

But those aren't soild objects. If I reach out my hand to touch a hologram he made, it will go right through it. It's just light. This is Bionicle, remember, not Star Trek. :)

Here's where I'm less sure; it was said a while ago that Takanuva had been experimenting with making solid light, but I seem to recall Greg later saying it didn't work. But unsure...Anyways, IF it is possible in Bionicle, the above is basically how it's possible. :)

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#124 Offline High Voltage

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 02:07 AM

So I have a question about light. Namely, how does one create solid objects out of it?

I think that's something that's usually not explained, and just handwaved, due to the general implausibility of it, like in Halo.~B~

Like the energy swords? I think the official explanation was something like bip-blap, zam, pow, swoosh, plasma, magnetic field, now go buy our game. A lot of fans have theories, but that would be best on the bungie forums so I won't say stuff here. I could see it being handwaved by greg though.

So he needed a tool as well. I don't know if it worked elementally, but bs01 says it activated with his thoughts. And it probably wouldn't have been a black hole, no, black holes can't be made from planets. Well, theoretically they can, but no known force has the ability to make a planet that dense. Talking about what planet sized robots can and can't do is kind of hard to do though.Also, I can't help but think everyone's getting bogged down on gravity and plasma. So I have a question about light. Namely, how does one create solid objects out of it?

Even if the Mata Nui robot could create a black hole, I don't think Teridax intended to create one with this gravity blast. Black holes can be dangerous to giant robots.As for Vakama, there's no indication in-story that using the tool for flight constituited an elemental energy drain, so I'm tempted to say that it is an innate quality of the tool to allow for flight, and that its power would be activated similar to a mask power - though the mind.As for the light question, you mean like Solek did? I don't think those objects were solid, exactly, more like a electromagnetic force field that held a shape.

Black holes could be a problem, yeah. BS01 also says that vakama preferred to not channel his powers through his disk launcher, so I don't know if it still could have been elementally powered. I wouldn't know though, I haven't seen any bionicle media for a long time. I think the powers of one av-matoran was described as solid light. Don't know if it was Solek though.

Wait, so you're saying it's confirmed that Toa of Magnetism can just make a magnetic field, magnetize their own armor, and hover directly? That my earlier idea of hovering above opposite-pole magnetic metal isn't needed? It does make sense on second thought, but just wanna be sure. :)

Yep. Also I think he said gravity would be a bit clunky but would work.

Sigh @ non-physics-geekdom.

Hey! I'm part of the physics geekdom. Sort of. Grade 10 physics, though I'm pretty good at it, which isn't saying much due to its less advanced nature, and I look into stuff that interests me about it on my own. So understandably a lot less knowledgeable than people who've done more advanced stuff. A thing worth noting is that a lot of what I'm asking isn't based off real world physics but bionicle physics.

Solidity is created by electromagnetic forces. Atoms use them naturally. This would be an artificial version of solidity, but the term just means that things can't pass through. Don't overthink it, lol. And it's known that light has pushing power; it's just that it's always in high motion and in too small of amounts, in real life. (Even so, solar sails are possible, and that's been used a lot in science fiction.)But if, hypothetically, you could hold light still (which is arguably what is sort of happening with electrons), and had enough of it or had it in the right "frequency" or pattern, it could act like an impenetrable wall.

Good example of the above. I guess you learn something new everyday. Never knew that light had pushing power, I guess it never came up though and it does make sense from what I already know.

Edited by High Voltage, Jul 01 2012 - 02:52 AM.

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#125 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 08:23 AM

fishers, yes, it was Vakama's elemental power of Fire enabling him to fly; there was no levitation power involved. You're probably thinking of Lhikan's hoverboard; that had an extra levitation power. I don't recall if it was a natural function of Vakama's Tool; primarily it doubled as a Kanoka launcher, which would work for any element Toa that used it, but the designs -were- fiery so it may have been intended for Ta-Toa, and the third function of jetpack would make sense. But I think he would have to have a special backpack type harness thingamabob to attach it to, which might not have come with the Tool, not sure.

I seem to recall that a Matoran was shown wearing a disk launcher on his back at some point, so maybe it's just standard-league Matoran equipment that Vakama was wearing during his transformation. And no, I wasn't thinking of Lhikan's hoverboard...more like Vakama could put a levitation Kanoka in the launcher and the launcher could draw energy from it to let him fly. But that's overthinking it. Probably the best explanation is that he's using his elemental power, seeing as there aren't any other jetpacks I've seen in Bionicle. It isn't confirmed, however...and I haven't seen that explanation before, despite the fact that it makes logical sense. As for the light, thanks for the explanation.

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#126 Online Visaru

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 09:10 AM

I don't think that vakama ever used his elemental power to fly, buy I might be wrong. He always used his disk launcher/jetpack tool.Although I can imagine how it would be possible- they could shoot fire downwards, and use the force created to push themselves upwards, like a jetpack. Some fire users do this in Avatar: The Last Airbender. Obviously, the rules are different there, but the idea is the same.And I have no clue how they make physical objects out of light. Good question.
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#127 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 09:51 AM

fishers, yes, it was Vakama's elemental power of Fire enabling him to fly; there was no levitation power involved. You're probably thinking of Lhikan's hoverboard; that had an extra levitation power. I don't recall if it was a natural function of Vakama's Tool; primarily it doubled as a Kanoka launcher, which would work for any element Toa that used it, but the designs -were- fiery so it may have been intended for Ta-Toa, and the third function of jetpack would make sense. But I think he would have to have a special backpack type harness thingamabob to attach it to, which might not have come with the Tool, not sure.

I seem to recall that a Matoran was shown wearing a disk launcher on his back at some point, so maybe it's just standard-league Matoran equipment that Vakama was wearing during his transformation.And no, I wasn't thinking of Lhikan's hoverboard...more like Vakama could put a levitation Kanoka in the launcher and the launcher could draw energy from it to let him fly. But that's overthinking it. Probably the best explanation is that he's using his elemental power, seeing as there aren't any other jetpacks I've seen in Bionicle. It isn't confirmed, however...and I haven't seen that explanation before, despite the fact that it makes logical sense.As for the light, thanks for the explanation.

Yes, Matoran often stored them on their backs, but not to fly; that was just for storage, and those were a different design. This was a Toa Tool that he got at the Great Temple along with the other Toa Tools, and again, Greg confirmed he was using his elemental power of Fire to fly. By Rocket method basically. :) The only power it had was to channel his elemental power. But in its jetpack function it channeled it in just the right way to give flight, basically.Also it seems implied that the winglike design of it helped control the flight though that's not confirmed as far as I know.

I don't think that vakama ever used his elemental power to fly, buy I might be wrong. He always used his disk launcher/jetpack tool.Although I can imagine how it would be possible- they could shoot fire downwards, and use the force created to push themselves upwards, like a jetpack. Some fire users do this in Avatar: The Last Airbender. Obviously, the rules are different there, but the idea is the same.And I have no clue how they make physical objects out of light. Good question.

Right, the same way Tahu had in the past (well, the future :P) used Fire to slow his fall. Tahu couldn't fly because he didn't have a Tool set up to aim it down as efficiently as a jetpack. Likewise, Vakama couldn't fly without the jetpack setup of his Toa Tool, but he was able to fly because it was his Toa Tool and he was channeling his elemental power through it. :)

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#128 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 10:12 AM

On the "light" thing:

Creating lightCreating focused beams of light (lasers)Creating solid or intangible hologramsCreating solid objects out of light

Hi GregI've got some questions if you don't mind answering them:4- Is somebody who is wearing a Mask of Light capable of:a- creating (solid) illusions?b- moving at the speed of Light?c- acting as an energy source?4a) All of the powers used by the Av-Matoran are potential Toa of Light powers, but he would have to be trained in their use and there is no one to do that.

Pretty much seals that one shut.

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#129 Offline Ballom

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 11:00 AM

So I have a question about light. Namely, how does one create solid objects out of it?

I think that's something that's usually not explained, and just handwaved, due to the general implausibility of it, like in Halo.~B~

Like the energy swords? I think the official explanation was something like bip-blap, zam, pow, swoosh, plasma, magnetic field, now go buy our game. A lot of fans have theories, but that would be best on the bungie forums so I won't say stuff here. I could see it being handwaved by greg though.

Actually, I meant the objects of solid light such as the bridges of light that appear on the Halo stations. Energy swords had some sort of explanation, like you said, but the solid light things had absolutely no explanation, as far as I know. That does seem to be with good reason though, as it seems any explanation attempted would be tenuous due to the general impossiblity of solid light.~B~

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#130 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 01 2012 - 12:03 PM

So I have a question about light. Namely, how does one create solid objects out of it?

I think that's something that's usually not explained, and just handwaved, due to the general implausibility of it, like in Halo.~B~

Like the energy swords? I think the official explanation was something like bip-blap, zam, pow, swoosh, plasma, magnetic field, now go buy our game. A lot of fans have theories, but that would be best on the bungie forums so I won't say stuff here. I could see it being handwaved by greg though.

Actually, I meant the objects of solid light such as the bridges of light that appear on the Halo stations. Energy swords had some sort of explanation, like you said, but the solid light things had absolutely no explanation, as far as I know. That does seem to be with good reason though, as it seems any explanation attempted would be tenuous due to the general impossiblity of solid light.~B~

Again, though, solid light, at least within science fiction, is plausible. We don't have the technology needed to hold it still and in the right pattern to act solid, but it's possible. More likely science fiction fans are expected to be familiar with this as it's been explained already in previous science fiction for a long time, so neither Halo nor Bionicle felt the need to explain it. It's well known that light can act solid if you have the right (fictional) means of holding it so.

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#131 Offline High Voltage

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Posted Jul 08 2012 - 11:46 AM

Woah, no replies in 7 days. Guess that means people are getting answers. Just a minor question this time, and it was sorta inspired by the matoran elemental traits topic. Could a toa of air use his power to augment his jumping ability?

Edited by High Voltage, Jul 08 2012 - 11:46 AM.

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#132 Online Visaru

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Posted Jul 08 2012 - 12:53 PM

I think so. Why not? Lewa used air to direct his flight, so a toa of air could use a strong updraft to go farther. It wouldn't be that useful, but it could be done.
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#133 Offline Anti Nui

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Posted Jul 10 2012 - 04:20 PM

What would a hypothetical elemental being of Psionics, Magnetism, or Gravity look like? I know it sounds crazy, but we've had things like the Sonic Entity and Umbra turning into light.
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#134 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 10 2012 - 04:43 PM

What would a hypothetical elemental being of Psionics, Magnetism, or Gravity look like? I know it sounds crazy, but we've had things like the Sonic Entity and Umbra turning into light.

Theoretically there could be a being made of the elemental energy of any element, and then they would look like an energy/ghostly being of whatever color that energy is.As for beings made of things like Gravity itself, I guess they might be invisible, known only by their effects, or some various visible effect, for Psionics especially, might come along with it, similar to the EE version mentioned above. :shrugs:

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#135 Online Click

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Posted Jul 10 2012 - 05:14 PM

Okay, I fell a bit behind in this topic, so I really don't want to go back and find where I saw it, but Bonesii said that Gravity Toa can make certain areas the new "gravity center" as long as it isn't overpowered by another source. And yet, in the books, Nuhvok-Kal was always shown as being able to increase or decrease gravity on a certain object, like how he made Tahu so heavy, that Tahu couldn't lift himself off the ground, or how he decreased the gravity (and therefore the weight) on some trees in the Le-Wahi forest to make them literally float out of the ground, and then increased their gravity so they would crash down and make an immovable barrier. Shouldn't this be the canon interpretation? And I also have a kind of theory that's started getting developed in this topic. Theoretically, Toa can only control one state of matter of their element, otherwise Toa of Water could control Ice, Steam, and Water Plasma (if it exists) as well. So, theoretically, using an example presented earlier, a Toa of Nitrogen could only control the gaseous form, and not Liquid Nitrogen? And a Toa of Poison could only control liquid poison, and not airborne poison? Is this correct then, or are certain elements exempt from that?
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#136 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 10 2012 - 05:28 PM

in the books, Nuhvok-Kal was always shown as being able to increase or decrease gravity on a certain object

Yes, that's within the power's capabilities too. And it's far easier than moving sideways or whatever else. Basically think of it the same way as with all other elements; they can turn elemental energy into their element and then control their element once it's converted. (Even Psionics can do all of that.) In this case, they convert it into gravity, and control the gravity.

Shouldn't this be the canon interpretation?

I wasn't saying making a different place the center is ALL they can do; someone asked if they could do that, and the answer is yes, although it would be more difficult and probably impractical compared to easier solutions like the examples you gave. :) Obviously all the things Nuhvok-Kal was shown doing are within the range of powers, as well as some other things he didn't happen to do. For example, Greg confirmed Gravity Toa could fly, moving themselves sideways.

And I also have a kind of theory that's started getting developed in this topic. Theoretically, Toa can only control one state of matter of their element, otherwise Toa of Water could control Ice, Steam

In general yes, although Tuyet was shown controlling water vapor once. I can't think of any other examples off the top of my head. Obviously lava is confirmed to be out for Stone, for example.

So, theoretically, using an example presented earlier, a Toa of Nitrogen could only control the gaseous form, and not Liquid Nitrogen? And a Toa of Poison could only control liquid poison, and not airborne poison? Is this correct then, or are certain elements exempt from that?

Here the logic breaks down because you're talking about non-canon elements. Liquid nitrogen is a popular substance in common knowledge for example, and I think if fans wanted a Toa of Nitrogen they would almost certainly want the character to control that. Controlling normal gaseous nitrogen would be incredibly boring, and really just a subpower of Air seemingly.That said, Air should not be able to control liquid Nitrogen, I think.As for Poison, it would depend on what rules the GBs (really the story team) were to assign to it. I can see that one fitting any of the three main states of matter, as poison commonly comes in all of those states.

Edited by bonesiii, Jul 10 2012 - 05:30 PM.

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#137 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 25 2012 - 02:20 PM

So.... *allows self to DP*The Matoran traits polls. Would like to start organizing that. And BTW, we could use the winners for the Multiverse, come to think of it. I might not have time this week, wanted to ask if anybody else might. :)
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#138 Online Click

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Posted Jul 25 2012 - 05:33 PM

Definitely, I would like to see that.
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#139 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jul 26 2012 - 01:30 PM

So.... *allows self to DP*The Matoran traits polls. Would like to start organizing that. And BTW, we could use the winners for the Multiverse, come to think of it. I might not have time this week, wanted to ask if anybody else might. :)

:???: Time for what?

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#140 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jul 26 2012 - 03:03 PM

To collect all the suggestions so far in a concise list for the polls. :)
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#141 Offline fishers64

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Posted Aug 01 2012 - 01:34 PM

Okay.Matoran Elemental TraitsMatoran of the Green (missing prefix and elemental trait )Suggestions:For Prefix: Bo-Matoran, Gre-Matoran, Vi-MatoranFor elemental trait: skills in cultivating plants, natural affinity for plants, causing plants to grow when around, enhanced reflexes, plant life growing in armor, enhanced senses, ability to manipulate plants (crossbreeding, etc), ability to tell things about plants like whether they are poisonous.Plasmatoran (missing prefix, elemental trait, and preferred environment )Suggestions:Prefix: Xe-Matoran, Plas-Matoran, Pa-Matoran, Io-Matoran, Sol-MatoranElemental Trait: Resistance to heat greater than Ta-Matoran, protective eye power to avoid being blinded by plasma, making bodies glow with heat, “more energetic”, resistance to light, solar batteries (absorbing sunlight for strength)Preferred Environment: Super-hot power reactor, tops of volcanoes, plasma workstationEdit: *facepalm* That's my headcanon, which I didn't actually suggest. Checking for further errors...Matoran of Magnetism (missing prefix, elemental trait, and preferred environment)Suggestions:Prefix: Co-Matoran, Jo-Matoran, Te-Matoran, Neh-Matoran, Tes-Matoran, Mag-Matoran, Feh-MatoranElemental Trait: Internal Compass (excellent sense of direction), sensing of magnetic fields, ability to ride magnetic forces, more powerful clutch on metal things, magnetic charge (undefined), resistance to magnetismPreferred Environment: Area with a lot of metal, anywhere, area with magnetic forces, area with no metal, place with lots of Magnetic rock,Ba-Matoran (missing elemental trait)Suggestions: Sensing of which way gravity is, jumping higher because of lesser gravity, “toleration of large pressure forces such as huge weight being placed on top”, being heavier, natural sense of balance, being heavier or lighter, resistance to gravity,Matoran of Lightning (missing prefix and preferred environment)Prefix: Vo-Matoran, El-Matoran, Am-Matoran, Wa-Matoran, Vo-Matoran, Vol-MatoranPreferred Environment: Electrical conduits, place with a lot of lightning stormsQuote Sources: (for the above)

The Ba-Matoran could probably jump higher because of lesser gravity. The Matoran of Plasma can probably withstand higher heat than Ta-Matoran, considering that Plasma is hotter than fire. Matoran of Plant Life probably have green thumbs (assuming that they have thumbs, or the green thumb term, but you know what I mean.) Matoran of Magnetism could possibly have a more powerful clutch on metal things, like their hands would have some aspect of magnets attracting. I think that Plasma Matoran would be called Pa-Matoran. Matoran of Plant Life might be called Gre-Matoran. Matoran of Psionics, Psi-Matoran. (that one sounds a little unoriginal, but what are ya gonna do?) I'm not sure about any of the others, though.

I've actually made a list of matoran prefexes and powers for jungle plasma and magnitism and just powers for matoran of gravity since they have a prefix I also made a prefex for electric matoran

  • Ba-Matoran, Matoran of Gravity, can tolerate intense pressure forces such as large weight being placed on top of them
  • Sol-Matoran, Matoran of Plasma, can make their bodies glow with heat. Sol stands for solar which plasma comes from
  • Bo- Matoran, Matoran of Jungle, are granted with enhanced reflexes- Bo stands for botany
  • Co-Matoran, Matoran of Magnetism, have a excellent sense of direction and never get lost. They act like compasses. Co stands for compass which is magnetic
  • El-Matoran, Matoran of Lightning, have a greater resistance to electricity than other types of Matoran. El stands for electricity

Plant Life Matoran can probably make things grow better, like gardening and whatnot.Plasma Matoran are probably similar to Ta-Matoran.Gravity Matoran are probably heavier or something, and Magnetism Matoran maybe have a magnetic charge?And Lightning Matoran might be able to withstand Electricity better.

The above posters might have forgotten that Matoran of Psionics are confirmed to be called Ce-Matoran, and Matoran of Lightning have the confirmed elemental trait of being resistant to electric shocks. Anyway, Bonesiii was saying something about starting a poll on this. I can't think of any good prefixes, but the traits I have in mind are:- Innate skill growing plants for Matoran of the Green. Though, this could just be a side thing, like how Po-Matoran are known for being carvers, but that's not their elemental trait.- Natural sense of balance for Ba-Matoran, so they are harder to knock down. This would be sort of like how Le-Matoran are agile and surefooted in treetops, except instead Ba-Matoran would be surefooted on the ground.- An internal compass-like sense for Matoran of Magnetism, so they have an excellent sense of direction and are usually good navigators. I'm quite certain that's the ability I want them to have.- Matoran of Plasma could be more energetic. I'm not sure if this is the best idea for them, but I think it's better than just copying the Ta-Matoran ability.

Ba-Matoran: Being extremely heavy or extremely lightweight makes sense. I'm not sure what benefit they would have by being heavier, but maybe if they were lightweight they could jump really high or something.Plasma Matoran: Resistant to extremely high temperatures, but especially vulnerable to low temperatures.The Green Matoran: I always liked to imagine that plant life could grow on their armor, giving them a natural camouflage in their environment. The Green Thumb thing can also be something that they have, but this could be due to their experience around plants, and not something that is pre-programmed into them. Kinda like how the Onu-Matoran developed night-vision because of how much time they spend underground.For Magnetism Matoran, they could either1. Have an internal compass2. Be naturally magnetic, allowing them to climb stuff3. Or be resistant to magnetism completely.

I imagine Matoran of Gravity can jump unusually high? Something along those lines, for Ba-Matoran. The others, I really have no idea on what the abilities could be. As for prefixes, I tend to stick with the EM ones, which are in the reference topic on the archive somewhere.

Ba-matoran I would imagine would be sensitive to even the most minor of gravitational changes, Matoran of Magnetism would be aware of the type and force of magnetic fields (like an internal compass), Matoran of Plant Life would be good at growing plants - the "green thumb" theorum, and Plasmatoran would have expanded heat resistance.

Ba-matoran and Ce-matoran are confirmed for no specific environment. Anyway, to me Ba-matoran could have better jumping ability or greater balance. I like the jumping one myself, but both make sense. plantoran would most likely be good gardeners, either because of natural skill or because plants grow better around them. Plasmatoran would probably have higher heat resistance than Ta-matoran, though I heard a theory that they could have a resistance to bright light. It's better for diversity but it doesn't make as much sense as the heat one. Magnetoran having an internal compass is probably the best idea for magnetism and one of the ones that don't give them too much control over magnetism. I didn't mean to say the exact same thing everyone else said either :/. Maybe no one has new ideas?Anyway for proper sounding names:-For plantoran maybe Bo-matoran or Vi-matoran? like from botany or viridian? Bit of a stretch with viridian, but it sounds better to me and doesn't clash with ba-matoran. You'll notice that none of the officially named elements have the same starting letter.-For magnetoran uh... umm... maybe Jo-matoran? I know it's just the front half of Jovans name, but that's how the main 6 were named and there just aren't a lot of magnetic themed words that sound good as a prefix. Tesla, the unit of measurement for a kind of magnetic field, could make Tes-matoran or something but that clashes and just doesn't sound as good as Jo to me.-Electrotoran have a lot of possibilities. Am (amperes), Wa (watts), and Vo (volts) stand out to me as good prefixes derived from electrically relevant words. I like Ni-matoran though. It has a nice ring to it and was the name of Nikila, a toa of lightning and my favourite minor character.-For plasmatoran, I think that should stay that way forever, much more enjoyable than __-matoran :). If it needs a prefix (and it does, oh well) then Plas would do just fine. What, I ain't lettin' no prefixes ruin my dreams http://www.bzpower.c...tyle_emoticons/default/cool.png.

Te-Matoran for Matoran of Magnetism actually sounds pretty good (except we already have Le-, De-, Ce- and Fe). I think having Matoran of Plasma be heat resistant is too much like Ta-Matoran, though.

There was the idea of giving Plasmatoran a protective eye power to counter the negative effects of looking at plasma.Also, I like the idea of Xe-matoran for plasma. Not sure why, exactly - maybe I just like the X, and no other Matoran has it, so why not?

Dude. Plas-Matoran. Love. Gonna use that. :PAnywho, I really think the prefixes we used for the Multiverse are good:Vi -- PlantsIo -- PlasmaNeh -- MagnetismReasons for the first two are obvious. I forget exactly what the third was but it was based on something sensible that we looked up.As for the traits, I think these are my preferences, although I have none on Gravity:Magnetism: Internal compasses (along with the idea that various machines in Mata Nui's systems create recognizeable magnetic fields they could sense).Plasma: Eye protection against glare (since heat resistance is already taken, and plasma -could- be blindingly bright). Less sure on this though.Plants: Some version of Green Thumb, but exactly what the rules would be, not sure.Yeah, I do plan to run the polls but since we have several members active now that weren't when the Story Squad topic was originally posted, I was actually thinking there should be a topic like this for a while to hear other suggestions. A little redundant, but hey. And just to be clear, the polls would be just out of curiousity of what are actually the most popular choices and by what margins etc. Apparently the chance of the winners getting canonized is now zero so yeah.

With all these suggestions. I've come up with new prefixes and power changes for some of the matoran

  • Ba-Matoran, Matoran of Gravity, Have an excellent sense of balance
  • Plas-Matoran, Matoran of Plasma, greater resistance to bright light, but cannot stand cold weather.
  • Bo- Matoran, Matoran of Jungle, Have a greater connection to plants that other matoran. Kinda like a green thumb or being able to communicate with plants.
  • Tes-Matoran, Matoran of Magnetism, have a excellent sense of direction and never get lost. They act like compasses.
  • Vol-Matoran, Matoran of Lightning, have a greater resistance to electricity than other types of Matoran.

Interesting topic, here's what I think the matoran attributes could be:Magnetism: I like the "Internal compass" idea, it makes sense.Plasma: I imagine them as living solar batteries, sunlight strengthens them, while lack of said resource weakens them. Barring that, I could go for something akin to conscious control over their own body temperature, able to raise or lower it at their whim.Gravity: I find that I prefer the idea of enhanced sense of balance.Plantlife: I actually imagined them as having enhanced senses, playing with the whole "in-tune with nature" aspect that comes with the element.

Well, here's my two cents. I mostly agree with Bonesii though, and the Multiverse suggestions make sense.-- Gravity: Ba-Matoran sounds good I guess, no idea why. Jo-Matoran would also work though. (or Jov-). Sensing gravitic (is that a word?) fields would be my vote.-- Lightning: I like Vo-Matoran, it sounds very electric. And maybe somewhere with lots of storms would be good for them, like somewhere near one of Mata-Nui's minor reactors (if any exist).-- Magnetism: Fer- (due to relation with iron) or Mag-Matoran sound decent, although I'm not sure. I also like the Internal compass and/or magnetic field sense. As for their environment, I think high-iron/very deep caves would be good, since Makuta tried to kill them all, and so they can be close to the natural magnetism.-- Plasma: Io-Matoran sounds pretty cool for them, and I like it, as well as the resistance to extreme light. They also like the tops of volcanoes. :)-- The Green: Bo-Matoran would make sense with Botany, as well as Bota Magna, the Green planet, but I can see logic behind Vi-Matoran. I think that they would have a natural connection to plant life, so they can almost talk to plants, slightly speed up growing processes in their vicinity, and/or can use plants to a small degree (ex: a vine moves closer to their hand when swinging, can hide behind leaves well, etc.)

For plants, maybe it's more like the ability to manipulate (crossbreed,etc) existing plants to make plants that produce healing or poisonous substances? Or other chemicals needed in the robot?

I think EW and someone came up with plasma Matoran naturally radiating heat, and having the prefix of Pa-.

I've always thought that Matoran of the Green would have innate ability with plants that would manifest as a green thumb. Anything they grow and tend to is stronger, healthier, has more flowers or fruits. They could also tell things about plants, like how strong a vine is or if a plant is poisonous.I think Matoran of Magnetism having a mental compass would make sense, and also that it could get confused by them being inside a very strong magnetic field that overrides whatever greater field they're using for directions.Ba-Matoran being resistant to gravity and so jumping higher and falling slower makes sense. No additional comments.Plasmatoran would probably be even hotter than Ta-Matoran. Most plasma's in the form of stars, so something like being walking-talking solar batteries or having a higher body temperature would hook into that. Pahrak-Kal's usage of it was very much a heat thing, melting and superheating and such, so a Plasmatoran ability that's related to heat would fall in line with Plasma's previous usages.

Hmmmm... Maybe. I can see it through how they don't have that precise control over heat, but it still seems like it would make more sense if they were just resistant to heat. And I know they don't live in metru-nui, what I was wondering is what type of environment they would live in. Like how onu-matoran live underground or how ta-matoran live in hot places.

I don't think that was confirmed, either, so the best thing is to use one's imagination. I'll give it a try, though.Lightening - probably in a place with lots of electricity. I tend to go with them living in a place with lots of electrical conduits with lightening crackling in between - like the Hakann game in the Piraka animations of 2006.Magnetism - Since there is magnetic rock IRL, probably somewhere with lots of the Bionicle equivalent. I kinda see it as them riding magnetic forces around when they're not working. :biggrin:Gravity - I made a theory once that Matoran of Gravity would live somewhere where they can adjust the gravity systems of the robot to make sure that other Matoran don't feel any change, despite the fluctuating gravity outside the robot (weightlessness, other planet's gravity, etc.) Thus, they would be in a place where they could sense the change and respond to it.Psionics - Probably in big cities or trading ports. Their area of expertise seems to be the minds of the MU inhabitants themselves, so I'm guessing they would be somewhere where they can interact with a lot of them.This is just what I think on this subject, however. I recall some Matoran (either Gravity or Magnetism) were confirmed to live upside down - not sure if that was right or not...

I agree that Matoran of Lightning would probably live in stormy places. Why would Matoran of Magnetism live in a place without metal?

It would seem to me that Matoran of Magnetism would prefer to live in a place with metal, as opposed to a place without, seeing as magnetism manipulates metal.

I thought that Magnetism Matoran would be able to sense magnetic fields and changes in magnetism of objects.It's all in the head-canon at this point.

I'll leave it to you to condense this mess. :)

Edited by fishers64, Oct 07 2012 - 07:49 AM.

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#142 Offline TLhikan

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Posted Aug 02 2012 - 07:32 AM

I personally dislike the term "Mag-Matoran"; All the other elemental prefixes aren't just the first few letters of the English word (no Fi-Matoran or Wa-Matoran), so I don't think Magnetism should be that way. I think that Tes- would be better, or possibly Far--TLhikan
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#143 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Aug 02 2012 - 10:42 AM

Question: What's the difference between a Toa of Fire and a Toa of Plasma?
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#144 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 02 2012 - 12:48 PM

Will try to get those polls up next week, thanks. :)knuckles, that question has already been answered several times in this topic; I suggest looking through past posts. :) Short answer, plasma is superheat and gas without combustion, fire is flammable materials and lesser heat, reacting with air to combust as flames.
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#145 Offline Anti Nui

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Posted Aug 02 2012 - 01:12 PM

Wait, what does the top of a volcano have to do with Plasma? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I seriously don't know.)
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#146 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 02 2012 - 01:49 PM

Wait, what does the top of a volcano have to do with Plasma? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I seriously don't know.)

Superheat. :) Ta-Koro was near the end of a long lava river, with relatively cool lava. Living at the top of an active volcano would be a lot hotter. Possibly also the bright light of it.

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#147 Offline Anti Nui

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Posted Aug 02 2012 - 05:43 PM

Wait, what does the top of a volcano have to do with Plasma? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I seriously don't know.)

Superheat. :) Ta-Koro was near the end of a long lava river, with relatively cool lava. Living at the top of an active volcano would be a lot hotter. Possibly also the bright light of it.

I guess that would make sense if their Matoran power is being able to survive extreme heat.Plus, isn't St. Elmo's Fire supposed to occur after a thunderstorm or volcanic eruption? If so, then maybe the Plasma Matoran should live at the top of a volcano that is in an area that gets frequent storms (with the Lightning Matoran living in the same area, but away from the volcano). That way, there would be different "kinds" of Plasma everywhere - in the lightning, St. Elmo's Fire, and super-hot flames from the volcano. And since this is fiction, we could say that St. Elmo's Fire occurs a lot more frequently than it does in real life.Just imagine walking through a Matoran village situated in a volcano with St. Elmo's Fire everywhere, and lightning crackling in the distance. Now how cool would that be? :D

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#148 Offline High Voltage

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Posted Aug 04 2012 - 06:39 AM

Thanks Fischer for collecting the information. And thank you so much for including plas- in there. It would be amazing if it won. Anyway, now we can finally get all that info fanonised. And are the polls going to include environments Bonesiii?

Wait, what does the top of a volcano have to do with Plasma? (Sorry if this is a dumb question, but I seriously don't know.)

Superheat. :) Ta-Koro was near the end of a long lava river, with relatively cool lava. Living at the top of an active volcano would be a lot hotter. Possibly also the bright light of it.

I guess that would make sense if their Matoran power is being able to survive extreme heat.Plus, isn't St. Elmo's Fire supposed to occur after a thunderstorm or volcanic eruption? If so, then maybe the Plasma Matoran should live at the top of a volcano that is in an area that gets frequent storms (with the Lightning Matoran living in the same area, but away from the volcano). That way, there would be different "kinds" of Plasma everywhere - in the lightning, St. Elmo's Fire, and super-hot flames from the volcano. And since this is fiction, we could say that St. Elmo's Fire occurs a lot more frequently than it does in real life.Just imagine walking through a Matoran village situated in a volcano with St. Elmo's Fire everywhere, and lightning crackling in the distance. Now how cool would that be? :biggrin:

I've just heard of it on ships, though it would be pretty sweet none the less. That would also narrow the places they would like to live down by a lot. Then again, there could be a lot of places like you said. It is fiction.

Edited by High Voltage, Aug 04 2012 - 06:40 AM.

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#149 Offline man774

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Posted Aug 09 2012 - 08:02 PM

Two (well, three) questions:1) Why is Magnetism an element? I know it's a Makuta power, but why a Toa power?2) Is Acid a subpower of anything, an actual element, or just a power?Okay fine, I only had two questions after all. Whatever.

1) Well, Jovan was created which he contributed to the story which had to make Magnetism an element.2) Acid is not an element and no Toa or Matoran can get it. It's considered a power, not an element. Kinda like telepotation, which is a power not an element.

also, guhrahk-kal had powers of magnetism.

I thought Toa of Plasma could turn anything into plasma if they applied enough elemental energy to it.

seeing as how plasma is a state of matter,I can see where you're coming from. But it makes one think, If an object changes states, they increase or descrease thermal energy. So could a toa of fire create plasma?

Question: What's the difference between a Toa of Fire and a Toa of Plasma?

Simply, what is there element. Fire is oxygen burning, and plasma is a state of matter that is similar to lava in some ways.what would happen in a psionics nova blast? headaches for miles around? spontanious insanity? exploding brains? increased mental strength? A zombie's version of an all-you-can-eat buffet?ANd why are we using 8th grade physics to solve the mysteries of bionicle?coulda toa of time or life exsist?Does brutaka have an element?

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#150 Offline High Voltage

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Posted Aug 10 2012 - 02:39 AM

So could a toa of fire create plasma?

Yes but it would require a lot of energy and they could not control it.

what would happen in a psionics nova blast? headaches for miles around? spontanious insanity? exploding brains? increased mental strength? A zombie's version of an all-you-can-eat buffet?

Short version:A lot of psionic energy would be released in a variety of ways. Brains would not explode.Long version:It would release all the powers of psionic energy at once over a large area. The physical force of the blast would most likely be from a forceful telekinetic push expanding outwards from the Source Toa. During the blast, powerful headaches, deep sleep and other powerful mental influences would be bestowed upon any beings caught inside. Most of these effects will eventually wear off. In all likelihood, anyone caught in the blast would be rendered permanently insane as the combined effects of the blast would have shredded their mentality into pieces. A toa of psionics would probably be able to repair the damage if they came back later but it would be a long process. The toa who made the blast would simultaneously detect and read all the minds in the radius of the blast. Their mental shielding could be strengthened depending if subpowers are enhanced with nova blasts, though it would stand to reason that they are. Curiously, if the Source Toa was in a crowded place and her mental shielding was not increased, she would be rendered insane by the vast stream of information being delivered to her mind, but if it was increased she would be fine as the mental shield would block it out. Obviously this would vary with the amount of minds in the area. Definitely one of the most interesting nova blasts.Brains would still not explode.

ANd why are we using 8th grade physics to solve the mysteries of bionicle?

We aren't. A lot of real world physics has been applied throughout the topic. Bionicle does not run completely off our physics anyway and many do not have a good understanding of physics, so any questions not completely following our physics should be considered valid.

coulda toa of time or life exsist?

Matoran, Toa and Turaga of time, life or creation can not exist. This is because these three elements contain too much power for a toa to fully harness so their power can only be accessed through masks. Even with the masks, they are extremely difficult to control. As shown by the golden skakdi thingo (creation, possibly elemental), Artahka (creation, mask power), the Ignika's conscience (life, elemental) and maybe Voporahk (time, non-elemental and only accelerates time in field around him, can turn off acceleration), vastly more powerful beings can control these elements.

Does brutaka have an element?

No but currently he has makuta powers.

Edited by High Voltage, Aug 12 2012 - 09:18 AM.

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#151 Offline Flex Likes Groot

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Posted Aug 15 2012 - 08:21 PM

For the prefixes:Plantlife could be: PeShadow could be: SaLightning could be: LiPlasma could be: PaMagnetism: MaJust the ideas I had, I like all of the traits already mentioned.
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#152 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Aug 15 2012 - 08:56 PM

Actually, Shadow is Kra-, but it's not often used because Matoran of Shadow don't occur naturally and don't see themselves as a tribe.
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#153 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Aug 15 2012 - 09:24 PM

Maybe the thing which gets me (and a lot of other people) the most is the difference between Stone and Earth. I know that it's supposed to be that Earth controls soil and Stone controls solid rock, but in the actual story, it seems that Earth controls black rocks and Stone controls brown rocks (or throws Climbing Claws) :P. To this day, I have no idea why GregF and the Story Team made those two be separate elements.Why can't Earth control Sand (or can it?). And "Plasma" in the Bio-Verse seems to be a sort of superheated goo, while in real life plasma is ionized gas, and can be anything from lightning to the stuff the Sun is made out of.

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#154 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 15 2012 - 10:31 PM

Maybe the thing which gets me (and a lot of other people) the most is the difference between Stone and Earth. I know that it's supposed to be that Earth controls soil and Stone controls solid rock, but in the actual story, it seems that Earth controls black rocks and Stone controls brown rocks (or throws Climbing Claws) :P. To this day, I have no idea why GregF and the Story Team made those two be separate elements.Why can't Earth control Sand (or can it?). And "Plasma" in the Bio-Verse seems to be a sort of superheated goo, while in real life plasma is ionized gas, and can be anything from lightning to the stuff the Sun is made out of.

The difference between them was answered in the other topic linked in the first post here (it's long dead now so don't post there). Onua could not control rock, but he did often throw tightly packed clumps of dirt. (And it's easy to see how that might look like a rock.) They probably just wanted more canister sets as to the reason, starting with the four classical elements and splitting two to give six. And since these aren't based on atomic elements or anything it's really subjective how many and which ones, and different cultures actually grouped them differently in ancient times anyways, it wasn't always the classic four.Stone was originally to control sand, but it was never shown in story and Greg later retconned it. Not sure off the top of my head about the timing, but in 2009 it was revealed as a separate Bara Magna element (with an Element Lord).Plasma thing has been answered a lot in here too. Basically superheated gas. Versus combustion flames with fire. Also, lightning turns the air it passes through into plasma, but the lightning itself is the electricity passing through (well, you can use the term to mean both, but in Bionicle physics it means the electricity only). The plasma is just a byproduct.

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#155 Offline Tenuk

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Posted Aug 16 2012 - 11:27 AM

Can a toa of plasma control plasma water?
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#156 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Aug 16 2012 - 11:48 AM

I don't think we know. Some people think it can control plasma anything, but as far as I know Greg never confirmed it.My guess is no, as it would take more superheat than they can make for many materials, so they can only control the plasma forms of what is gas at room temperature. Perhaps if something else had the extreme power to plasmaify other materials. And water would probably be closer to possible than things like stone.
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#157 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Aug 16 2012 - 06:15 PM

I'd say they could, considering how quickly they can melt stone, and how relatively little energy is required to vaporize water.
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#158 Offline Podu

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Posted Aug 17 2012 - 08:32 AM

I always wonder if the "gravity" in BIONICLE is referring to the attraction between objects or simply just the weight of an object. :/
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#159 Offline Toa Zaz

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Posted Aug 17 2012 - 08:58 AM

1. How would Toa of Stone perform a nova blast?2. If Toa of Water can control water vapor, then why can't they control ice?3. What can a Toa of Magetism do that a Toa of Iron can't?
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#160 Offline Anti Nui

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Posted Aug 17 2012 - 03:56 PM

Toa of Magnetism can fly, while Toa of Iron can't.
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