Hero factory or Zero factory

boston100 · August 22, 2012

Do you like hero factory or hate it?say your reasons here. Below are the reasons I hate it. :hau:1 names. You have a fire guy you name him furno. You have an ice guy you name him stormer. WHERS THE CREATIVITY? Part of the reason I liked bionicle was beacause it had creative names. Thes sound to childish. If they had named makuta "Toa killer" would he have been so awsome? NO! If lego replaces bionicle I expected them to put some efort into it instead of slaping on tames like "Witch doctor and Hero factory 2.0.#2 Villions. Forgive if I get some things wrong here beacause I don't follow the hero factory story at all. Th villins in hero factory have no motive. For some like me who enjoys crime dramas this is insulting. They try to kill all the hero's instead of Stealing, killing or selling illegal stuff. Ther fore they are not realistic. I am fine with the heros fighting crimanals but PLEAS make them crimanals not nuts who just want to kill all the cops.#3 vahki. When you think about hero factorys are just vahki with personalitys. How ever even before Makuta took them over matoran still hated them. why should hero factory be different. Its like some one at lego said "Lets take vahki make them look less evil and give them personalitys and call them hero factory". That brings up the question why do the hero's have personalities. wouldent it be more efficient to have them like vahki, Robots who surround a criminal and dispose of him whith no emotion? People didn't idolize them for catching crimanls. they treated them like any other piece of law enforsing equiptment. Again why should hero factory be any diferent?#4 Message. Hero's of bionicle toa whith the exeption of the mata villiders who are zaped into heroes. Heros of hero factory are heros made in a factory.The message hero factory sends to kids is "You have to be made in a special factory to be a hero. If your not leave us alone". The message bionicle sends to kids is "Any one can be a hero" And as jalla and garan so eligently put it in island of doom. "You dont need to be a toa to be a hero. I rest my case#5 The heroes. Is a trafic light brave for stopping acedents? NO it does that beacause it is programed to do it. In bionicle the heroes are part bionic part organic therfore alive. They have friends, fears and lives to go back to after they finish the mission. They are afraid of death therfore ALIVE. You can not have courage if you do not have fear. At the begining of ledgens of metru nui, Vakama was scared witless when the dark hunters came to call. At the end he challendged makuta 1 on 1. That is bravery. In Hero factory they are NOT alive DON'T have friends or alive and are PROGRAMED to catch villons and not feel fear. Therfore they are not brave. I could list another 1000 things wrong whith hero factory but I'v wasted anoughf of your time.Sorry for the bad spelling.Sincerly boston100

FrozenFlash · August 22, 2012

Shouldn't this go in Lego Discussion? Anyways, yes. Whether you like it or not, I actually like HF. Yup. I really do. While I agree the story is a bit plain and weak, HF was mostly built for a more younger audience. The characters can be pretty attractive and the pieces the sets come with are awesome.EDIT: Edited some sentences out.

Edited August 22, 2012 by FF Ice Master

**Bfahome** · August 22, 2012

Part of the reason I liked bionicle was beacause it had creative names.

Axonn, Brutaka, Antroz, Chirox, Kirop, Vamprah, Bitil, Mantax.Reidak/Pridak/RadiakSpikit

Th villins in hero factory have no motive

Yeah they do.

When you think about hero factorys are just vahki with personalitys.

Then so was every being in the Matoran universe to at least a 75% degree. And, no, the HF characters aren't just Vahki with personality (which alone would make them very different than Vahki).Also, I present you with the best sets of BIONICLE's entire run. Personality? Nowhere to be found.

And as jalla and garan so eligently put it in island of doom. "You dont need to be a toa to be a hero. I rest my case

Yet one of them turned into a Toa anyway. Kinda kills the message entirely.

In Hero factory they are NOT alive DON'T have friends or alive and are PROGRAMED to catch villons and not feel fear. Therfore they are not brave.

Being inorganic doesn't mean they're not "alive" to some degree. Programming self-preservation into heroes that already have personalities isn't so far-fetched, given how advanced they are; you'd want them to last as long as possible. Also, every being in the Matoran Universe was created to maintain Mata Nui's functions; the exact same could be said of them.I like Hero Factory.1. The sets have a very flexible and versatile construction.2. It doesn't take itself as seriously as BIONICLE. Instead of trying to be ooh gritty dark scary it's lighter and pokes fun at itself.3. There's a good variety of villains with differing looks and stories.4. The story can't simply be summarized as "what's Makuta up to this time?"Also:

Forgive if I get some things wrong here beacause I don't follow the hero factory story at all.

Then you probably shouldn't be commenting on things you don't like about the story. Edited August 22, 2012 by Bfahome

**Makaru** · August 22, 2012

I personally think both lines are rife with their own respective problems. Bionicle just happens to have more because it's been around longer.I still like them both in their own ways.

**~Shockwave~** · August 22, 2012

oh boy, are you fully ready to say a robot can't be alive? can you back it up? because I have argued from the other side, and having an argument either way can get terribly difficult. in fact, what is being alive? it can't be just organic, because not everything containing carbon is alive. so to say the heroes aren't alive in some form or other is a bit... difficult to say. It's not black and white. look at your average cybertronian, there's no way you can say that they aren't alive to at least some degree. and if you would like to, I would love to say why they are. anyway, most of your arguments are ill informed. yeah, Bionicle is cool. but it's not around anymore, and hating hero factory won't change that.

Aanchir · August 22, 2012

Do you like hero factory or hate it?say your reasons here. Below are the reasons I hate it.

And below are the reasons I think these reasons, while they might apply to you, are still just opinions and don't really apply to me.

1 names. You have a fire guy you name him furno. You have an ice guy you name him stormer. WHERS THE CREATIVITY? Part of the reason I liked bionicle was beacause it had creative names. Thes sound to childish. If they had named makuta "Toa killer" would he have been so awsome? NO! If lego replaces bionicle I expected them to put some efort into it instead of slaping on tames like "Witch doctor and Hero factory 2.0.

Let's compare BIONICLE's story:You have a fire guy you name him "fire" in a foreign language. You have an ice guy you name him "ice" in a foreign language. You have villagers you call them "artisans" in a foreign language. It turns out speakers of the foreign language you chose aren't too happy about their language being commercialized, they take legal action, and the company has a whole fiasco on their hands.Eventually you have to change the spelling of several names, and most new names from that point onward either have completely meaningless nonsense for names, have names that disguise their real-world origins like "Hydraxon", "Antroz", or "Carapar", or have names derived from English like "Axalara" or "Jetrax".Believe it or not, some people actually prefer names that make sense to them to names with either obscure meanings or no meanings at all. One of my favorite stories, the Artemis Fowl series by Eoin Colfer, has a tunnel dwarf character named Mulch Diggums and a centaur named Foaly. The well-loved Harry Potter series has terms like Slytherin with obvious derivation. Even the James Bond series, hardly a kids' series, had a bunch of names that were deliberately chosen for pun value.Naturally, this doesn't mean you have to like Hero Factory names, any more than you have to like Harry Potter or Artemis Fowl names. But it's silly to suggest that because names have obvious meanings they can't be any good.

#2 Villions. Forgive if I get some things wrong here beacause I don't follow the hero factory story at all. Th villins in hero factory have no motive. For some like me who enjoys crime dramas this is insulting. They try to kill all the hero's instead of Stealing, killing or selling illegal stuff. Ther fore they are not realistic. I am fine with the heros fighting crimanals but PLEAS make them crimanals not nuts who just want to kill all the cops.

The villains in Hero Factory have fairly realistic motives, and most don't care at all about killing heroes. Only Von Nebula, the 2010 main villain, was interested in killing heroes at all, and that was due to a misguided desire for revenge. The villains of early 2011 were trying to steal fuel to sate their tremendous hunger for energy, in a story arc that had some parallels with drug addiction. The main villain of summer 2011's story, Witch Doctor, lured heroes to a planet he was stranded on so he could steal their ship and use it to escape with valuable minerals from the planet's core. The 2012 villains were mostly concerned with escaping the Hero Factory prisons, though the mastermind of the breakout used it as a distraction so he could infiltrate the HEro Factory and steal the factory plans. One 2012 villain is concerned with killing heroes, not because he just enjoys causing trouble but because he is basically a deranged serial killer and collects their Hero Cores as "trophies".In general, I enjoy the variety in the villains' motivations in Hero Factory. There might not be as many convoluted plans within plans as we saw in BIONICLE, but the villains still tend to have some depth.

#3 vahki. When you think about hero factorys are just vahki with personalitys. How ever even before Makuta took them over matoran still hated them. why should hero factory be different. Its like some one at lego said "Lets take vahki make them look less evil and give them personalitys and call them hero factory". That brings up the question why do the hero's have personalities. wouldent it be more efficient to have them like vahki, Robots who surround a criminal and dispose of him whith no emotion? People didn't idolize them for catching crimanls. they treated them like any other piece of law enforsing equiptment. Again why should hero factory be any diferent?

Hero Factory robots are hardly like Vahki; they are closer to Toa in most respects besides that they are mass-produced. It is irrelevant that they are robots because pretty much everyone in the Hero Factory story (with a few minor exceptions) is a robot. Having them without personalities might be more efficient, but being the galaxy's police force, it's important that the citizens can trust them. Having heroes with personality and empathy makes them more valuable for this purpose than cold, efficient machines.

#4 Message. Hero's of bionicle toa whith the exeption of the mata villiders who are zaped into heroes. Heros of hero factory are heros made in a factory.The message hero factory sends to kids is "You have to be made in a special factory to be a hero. If your not leave us alone". The message bionicle sends to kids is "Any one can be a hero" And as jalla and garan so eligently put it in island of doom. "You dont need to be a toa to be a hero. I rest my case

BIONICLE's message was often that "you aren't a hero unless destiny chooses you as one". The message "you don't have to be a Toa to be a hero" was nice but hardly ever made any difference in the story-- most of the important accomplishments in the BIONICLE story after early 2006 were accomplished by Toa.If Hero Factory spent any time at all exploring what non-Hero robots did, then its message might have to be explored more carefully to avoid sending that message. But as it is, Akiyama Makuro, a non-hero, is one of the most important figures in the universe because he created the Hero Factory. Nathaniel Zib, a non-hero who works for the factory, plays an essential role by dispatching Heroes for missions. So it's silly to think the story implies that non-Hero robots are useless.

#5 The heroes. Is a trafic light brave for stopping acedents? NO it does that beacause it is programed to do it. In bionicle the heroes are part bionic part organic therfore alive. They have friends, fears and lives to go back to after they finish the mission. They are afraid of death therfore ALIVE. You can not have courage if you do not have fear. At the begining of ledgens of metru nui, Vakama was scared witless when the dark hunters came to call. At the end he challendged makuta 1 on 1. That is bravery. In Hero factory they are NOT alive DON'T have friends or alive and are PROGRAMED to catch villons and not feel fear. Therfore they are not brave.

Some story media for Hero Factory calls the inhabitants of Makuhero City "living" robots. Even though they are 0% organic, 100% mechanical, they still have all the qualities that make us "people" besides the biological functions. Realistic? Not necessarily, but it would be boring if they just acted like robots bound entirely by programming. They are just as brave, smart, friendly, and moral as they would be if they were humans.Think about the movie WALL-E. It's about a robot who finds love and saves the planet Earth from a future of desolation. It's hardly realistic, but WALL-E still is still a heartfelt and sentimental character with a lot of personality.BIONICLE tried to be "hard" sci-fi in some ways like not including any fully-sentient robot characters. However, just because one story has organic characters with a lot of personality and robots with none doesn't mean that there can't be enjoyable stories where robots have real personalities.

I could list another 1000 things wrong whith hero factory but I'v wasted anoughf of your time.Sorry for the bad spelling.Sincerly boston100

None of these things you've listed show anything "wrong" with Hero Factory. They show ways it's different than BIONICLE, and that's fine because in many of those ways it was designed to be different. BIONICLE was a great story but it was hard to jump into due to its complexity. Hero Factory starts with what kids can tell from the toys ("they're robot good guys who fight robot bad guys") and imagines a richer universe from there.Now, I wouldn't be finished if I didn't state why I like Hero Factory. I like it because it has coloful characters with diverse personalities, the toys have great building potential, it's a simpler story than BIONICLE's that demands less of my time and attention, and in general it's just a fun action story that I can follow without taking it too seriously. You'll notice that none of these are reasons I think it's "better" than BIONICLE. This is because I don't-- I loved BIONICLE from beginning to end and have no regrets about spending so much time as a fan of it.But BIONICLE wasn't any more flawless than Hero Factory is, and after ten years being devoted to it I appreciate having something different, something a little less demanding, something I can more easily explain in a sentence or two to my family and friends. And I wouldn't be surprised if other people who never became fans of BIONICLE also appreciate something with a simpler, less demanding story to follow. Edited August 22, 2012 by Aanchir: Rachira of Time

Tanu Toa of Earth · August 22, 2012

I personally don't mind Hero Factory just because I can pick up a few HF sets, mix-n-match until I have some cool-looking custom Heroes, then have a bit of light fun with my little brother--- however, as far as the story, the idea of mass-produced "living robots" is OK, but BIONICLE was far more unique and I don't mind the idea of enemies that basically control all the main forces of evil. Having destined normal citizens is totally fine to me. And as far as the names... you don't see very many foreign names in Hero Factory do you? All of them are just English words or twists on English words... Acceptable in LEGO Universe, acceptable in suitably small amounts in BIONICLE (Jetrax wasn't that great though. :| ), acceptable in LEGO themes where the characters aren't actually that important (Agents, Power Miners, etc.), but not acceptable in this outrageous amount in BIONICLE's replacement.Especially... Speeda Demon? Really?

**Makuta_of_Oz** · August 22, 2012

I hate it simply because it's a constant reminder of what happened to Bionicle.

BULiK · August 22, 2012

I hate it simply because it's a constant reminder of what happened to Bionicle.

Agreed. listen to this man.

Toa Of Virtues · August 23, 2012

This can get real heated, real fast. I am personally not a fan of Hero Factory, since they are a reminder of what happened to Bionicle, along with other reasons. The "Destiny" theme in Bionicle was simply a path to follow, not a nessesity to become whatever your destiny says you to be. With the Toa Inika, they proved that you don't need to be a Toa to be a hero. Becoming a Toa only gave their bravery a physical form, and helped them with their quest. Also, the Voya Nui Resistance Team were not made of Toa, but Matoran who decided to stand up for themselves. In contrast, the Hero Factory Heros were programed to enforce the law, and given little choice. Point is, Bionicles chose what their path would be, making them deeper characters. Hero Factory Heros were simply forced to be heros and like it, making their characters two dimensional. Also, the villans did have a much more origional story than Hero Factory. With Bionicle, you have Makuta putting to sleep the giant he's in, and tricking the Toa to put him in charge of the body, which I find pretty origional. In Hero factory, you have some power-hungry villans break out of prison (how origional for Lego) and seeked revenge, stole quaza and other fairly predictable things. For younger generations, yes, it would be better and easier to follow than Bionicle. However, I'm a part of the bionicle generation. and once you go bionicle YOU NEVER GO BACK.Just want to make this clear: While I may disagree with a few people about this subject, I respect your opinion and have no negativity towards you. Thanks

Dark_Stranger · August 23, 2012

I kind of tend to see both sides on this issue. On one hand, the sets are, for the most part, very well done, with a few obvious exceptions (most of which are from the first wave). Some, such as Witch Doctor, rival the best Bionicle sets.On the other hand, the story stinks like a week-old skunk corpse smeared with limburger cheese.Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration, but seriously, it's dreadful.Of course, the wonderful thing about canon is that you can simply ignore it to death and substitute your own, as I and my siblings have done. We have established our own continuity completely separate from the TV show, and it is GLORIOUS, if I do say so myself.So I'd have to say that I like Hero Factory overall, though it will, of course, always be number two in my book."But as long as I'm here, I get to bust heads!"

dotcom · August 23, 2012

and once you go bionicle YOU NEVER GO BACK.

Now presenting Bionicle: the drug.~~~ I love Hero Factory, more than Bionicle honestly. Its sets are superior and it's a great concept.And, unlike Bionicle, there aren't hordes of kids taking everything about it far too seriously.

**Meiko** · August 23, 2012

I hate it simply because it's a constant reminder of what happened to Bionicle.

How so? Hero Factory has taken a much different, much better route than BIONICLE did, in my opinion.Personally, I have to agree with just about everything Aanchir said above. After sitting next to him while he typed that elaborate, in-depth post, and then taking the time to read it, I noticed it's really quite a good explanation of the reasons why Hero Factory makes a good theme, and the reasons I like it.As a story, I like the loose story, but still the fact that there is one, and it's well-defined, with not many contradictions between media (comics vs. TV).For the sets, I absolutely love the pieces, and if you stroll down into Bionicle-based Creations, you'll see how in my MOCs, I've found great part usages and ways to make good-looking mid-sized humanoid characters. That's really what LEGO is about is having parts that can be used to do different things, striking the imagination, letting the builder build just about anything. Hero Factory, though the pieces look much different than LEGO bricks, really share many of the same characteristics, which is probably why I like them. They come in different sizes, shapes, and colors, but they just about all are compatible, and they can be attached in multiple ways to create different looking creations.I might get a large amount of negative response to this next statement, but in my opinion, Hero Factory lives up to the name "LEGO" much more than Bionicle ever did. Bionicle had a firm, solid story, which could sometimes make it hard to make custom stories for your sets/characters, since the story was so solid, and it would be too easy for the next book or comic or whatever to get in the way of your custom story (I had this problem many times). In Hero Factory, you can easily make a custom story with your sets, because you can just send them on a different mission, with a different crime. It doesn't interfere with the current story, nor does a custom team interfere, since Hero Factory has thousands of teams and missions. With the sets, Hero Factory allows for more creativity, without many weird-shaped parts that don't fit in with others. Just about every Hero Factory part since 2011 has been compatible with the others, and even 2010 parts are compatible to an extent.Al in all, I really appreciate and enjoy Hero Factory, as a LEGO product, and a hobby.

**Black Six** · August 23, 2012

Moving to LEGO Discussion...

**~Shockwave~** · August 23, 2012

I might get a large amount of negative response to this next statement, but in my opinion, Hero Factory lives up to the name "LEGO" much more than Bionicle ever did. Bionicle had a firm, solid story, which could sometimes make it hard to make custom stories for your sets/characters, since the story was so solid, and it would be too easy for the next book or comic or whatever to get in the way of your custom story (I had this problem many times). In Hero Factory, you can easily make a custom story with your sets, because you can just send them on a different mission, with a different crime. It doesn't interfere with the current story, nor does a custom team interfere, since Hero Factory has thousands of teams and missions. With the sets, Hero Factory allows for more creativity, without many weird-shaped parts that don't fit in with others. Just about every Hero Factory part since 2011 has been compatible with the others, and even 2010 parts are compatible to an extent.

well said, well said. and I think your right. the story is easy to add to. where in bionicle, it was not so easy. but I do like the complexity, but HF does seem to be driven more by creativity.

fishers64 · August 23, 2012

4. The story can't simply be summarized as "what's Makuta up to this time?"

What's Von Nebula up to this time?

If Hero Factory spent any time at all exploring what non-Hero robots did, then its message might have to be explored more carefully to avoid sending that message. But as it is, Akiyama Makuro, a non-hero, is one of the most important figures in the universe because he created the Hero Factory. Nathaniel Zib, a non-hero who works for the factory, plays an essential role by dispatching Heroes for missions. So it's silly to think the story implies that non-Hero robots are useless.

And don't forget Daniela Capricorn. Despite her attitude, she actually helped the Heroes out in Breakout. Hero Factory is okay. I like the building system they did with that, and I like the potential those parts have. And the TV shows aren't too bad. But they're not really that great. And there are too many humanoid builds. I think the plot twist might pick the story up a bit, though. It's not my absolutely favorite thing, as a whole, but I've found some small things to like about it.

**bonesiii** · August 23, 2012

Hi, boston. I thought you would post this as a topic soon, and I'd like to share my perspective on it with you. The most important lesson I have learned over the years on this forum is that it is pointless to feel such strong negative emotions as 'hate' about a toyline, storyline, etc. The purpose of these things is entertainment. And the key here is that different people like and dislike -- quite naturally -- different things when it comes to their entertainment.I took a poetry class in college for example, and the thing that struck me the most is that the very things that some of the students said they liked the most were the same things other students said they liked the least. This happened even with comments written by each student prior to any class discussion, so they weren't just reacting against what others said. It is a simple fact of how we humans are, that I've seen echoed time and time again whenever entertainment is in question.It's the same here.You have the reactions you have because you have your own personal tastes. I'm not saying there's no objective quality to these things -- sure, there is, but in order to get a good handle on that, first you need to become very aware of the strong role that varied preferences play. To someone who doesn't realize the role of taste, it may seem obvious that for example with the style of names, Bionicle's style is 'obviously' better. They will typically present it as evidence for their case in criticism, with no further explanation, believing this to be a universal preference. But it's possible others like the more English, "kiddy" type names like Furno and Stormer. Especially for a line geared towards young kids, they do make sense.Now this doesn't mean you have to love everything they do, but when something doesn't appeal to you, then it's best to simply move on and try to find something you do like. Entertainment is meant for fun. If someone's personal tastes don't match it, they shouldn't get upset or hate it or the like. That implies that there's something wrong with making something that someone with different tastes than yours will like. And yet, you would probably enjoy it if people did something that pleased your tastes, right? So you wouldn't feel like something wrong had been done if it pleased you personally. Would you want others to think it was wrong? See where I'm going with this? :)It would simply be best for us all to appreciate each others' differences (they are beneficial; re: my Society Variety theory; tastes derive from varied strengths and weaknesses, and with different people having different strengths, more challenges can be met), and when something doesn't appeal to us, look at it as something still to be happy about that someone else may be getting what pleases them. (In terms of entertainment.) If it turns out it doesn't appeal to enough to be successful, so be it, but that still wouldn't prove anything 'wrong' or hate-worthy had been done. In other words, hating something that doesn't appeal to you is too close to hating other people for being different than you. It's far better simply to dislike it. :)Now I understand that you felt a need for this to be very similar to Bionicle since it was marketed as its successor, but honestly I think we all knew it had to be something new, which means different, though similar in many ways. If they made it a Bionicle clone, other people could be just as upset as you are because they wanted something different. Otherwise why bother ending Bionicle in the first place?I also think a lot of what I'm saying applies to the end of Bionicle. Ultimately, it's all supposed to be entertainment, a story, and stories have endings. This is good. A lot of us, including me, hope Bionicle will return, but don't turn that into a negative and act like it was wrong for it to end. (Of course that doesn't mean the end was done perfectly or anything, but my point is allowing ourselves to feel such strong negative emotions misses the whole point of all this -- to have fun! )Now to specific points:Names -- I kinda like the HF name style sometimes. Some of the minor villains get a bit hard to recall, but the names of the heroes are in line with a popular tradition in modern culture, well established. Also, the Bionicle names are the same thing, just borrowing from other languages rather than English most of the time. It is definitely different in feel, but it's supposed to be.Villains -- I do think the villains are sometimes a little flat in terms of how they oppose the heroes, but believe me it's a lot more varied than you think. You really should watch the TV episodes with an open mind. Yes it's cheesy sometimes and the villains always seem to hold back unrealistically to preserve the heroes, but once you accept that you're watching a show for little kids, it can get pretty interesting and fun. :)Robots -- I really don't see where you're coming from here, but that's probably just because our preferences are different. Most Bionicle fans thought the characters were robots in 2001, and I ran into that misconception all the time over the years. All HF did is remove the confusing (but cool) biomechanical complication and go with what the kids have been seeing such characters as all the time. IMO this was a very wise move. And really, the fact that there were robots like Bohrok and Vahki in Bionicle, I would think would please you rather than disappoint, since earlier you complained about other things changing away from what Bionicle did, like the names.Message -- I can kinda see your point there. We didn't know originally that the Matoran became Toa though. We thought they were special beings, and in the original six Toa's cases that is actually true. So I don't see a big problem here. Also, Bionicle didn't say anyone can be a Toa. Only some were destined. Bionicle did teach the message that you don't have to be a Toa to be a hero, though. It's possible HF will have such a message eventually.But anyways I think HF's real message is that constructivity, imagination, and the like, are important to be good, and that evil always loses in the end, which was also a core part of the Bionicle message but I do think HF has brought it more into focus than it was in Bionicle, at least the construction aspect of it. Bionicle did that a tiny bit (and not well) with the Kaita in 2001 but mostly forgot it later, which is odd considering this is LEGO.Heroes -- They clearly have some kind of freewill, as heroes, instructors, and citizens have become villains, they use imagination, etc. Don't just assume that robot means the limits of real-world current robots (which are really just computers). In fantasy fiction at least, robots can be (and often are) like us. Like Data on Star Trek The Next Generation. And I don't know where you got the idea that they don't feel emotions. They're clearly portrayed as feeling emotions, including fear (again we could compare this to Data with his emotion chip).

**Gatanui** · August 23, 2012

Good points, bones, but there is something about what you said that doesn't really make sense. I don't know, but when I read your post I felt that you forgot the most important point of all.Which is, why are you so awesome? :PGreat post, I couldn't agree more. I like Hero Factory for several reasons, one being that it feels much more like a LEGO theme than BIONICLE ever was. I love BIONICLE and it had great sets, too, but often it was limited by the fact that in the end, it was just a toyline and too epic and even dark for such at times. Granted, there are a few things I dislike about HF, one being what has already been brought up, namely the exploitation of the word "Hero". It's used so often that it kind of takes away the true meaning of the word. Then again, I think the heroes HF tries to convey are of a different kind than the ones we saw in BIONICLE. In BIONICLE, heroes were those who selflessly risked their lives for the weak and for those who can't protect themselves, and often for the fate of an entire universe. However, HF heroes aren't supposed to be that. I think they are supposed to represent the heroes of our daily lives, who may not risk their lives for entire universes, but still stand up for what is right and to keep harm from happening. I'm talking of policemen, firemen, emergency doctors and the like. Their acts may be less visible, may have a smaller impact, but does that make their heroism worth less? Now the HF Heroes are exactly that: Selfless intergalactic policemen "committed to maintaining peace and prosperity throughout the universe", to quote a promotional HF ad.-Gata

Edited August 23, 2012 by Gatanui

**CeeCee** · August 23, 2012

Okay so I purchased a fair few of the heroes a few weeks ago, and i must say, theyre quite nice. I dont think I will be any sort of avid collector or anything, but they do all look amazing.As for story, I really dont like it.

Sybre · August 23, 2012

No one can make me unlike Hero Factory, even if the plot isn't that good. I actually happen to LIKE this snap-on armor thing. This gives sets less pieces and makes it cheaper than BIONICLE.I prefer making my own storylines rather than just the official one.The main reason I got into Hero Factory was for Preston Stormer. He and I share a first name.

Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of · August 24, 2012

Do you like hero factory or hate it?say your reasons here. Below are the reasons I hate it. :hau:1 names. You have a fire guy you name him furno. You have an ice guy you name him stormer. WHERS THE CREATIVITY? Part of the reason I liked bionicle was beacause it had creative names. Thes sound to childish. If they had named makuta "Toa killer" would he have been so awsome? NO! If lego replaces bionicle I expected them to put some efort into it instead of slaping on tames like "Witch doctor and Hero factory 2.0.Furno and Stormer are at least better than Fire and Ice in Maori. They won't get you law suits. Also, Batman, Twoface, Joker, Spiderman, Captain America, Hulk, and most other super hero or villain names are of an equal level of creativity as HF names.#2 Villions. Forgive if I get some things wrong here beacause I don't follow the hero factory story at all. Th villins in hero factory have no motive. For some like me who enjoys crime dramas this is insulting. They try to kill all the hero's instead of Stealing, killing or selling illegal stuff. Ther fore they are not realistic. I am fine with the heros fighting crimanals but PLEAS make them crimanals not nuts who just want to kill all the cops.Sorry, but this is false. You oughta watch the show before criticizing the story. Nebula wishes to defeat Preston Stormer due to a misguided desire for personal revenge, the Fire Villains are druggies, (and a LEGO magazine also listed their other crimes, including real life things like extortion) Witch Doctor wanted to juice himself up with Quaza and only got Heroes involve to steal their ship, Phantom wants to transmit files to Nebula, Jawblade wants Oxidium, Reapa wants to expand his deadly species, Splitface wants to impede communications for robberies, Speeda Demon wants to destroy a navigation beacon to steal spacecraft for his own weird vehicle obsession, Voltix wants to create a powerful lightning weapon to assist in crime, Thornraxx is leading his species on the warpath, XT4 is an emotionless killer, and Core Hunter is a deranged lunatic serial killer who steals the hearts of his victims and wears the, as trophies. They all have extremely varied, if admittedly cheesy, motives.#3 vahki. When you think about hero factorys are just vahki with personalitys. How ever even before Makuta took them over matoran still hated them. why should hero factory be different. Its like some one at lego said "Lets take vahki make them look less evil and give them personalitys and call them hero factory". That brings up the question why do the hero's have personalities. wouldent it be more efficient to have them like vahki, Robots who surround a criminal and dispose of him whith no emotion? People didn't idolize them for catching crimanls. they treated them like any other piece of law enforsing equiptment. Again why should hero factory be any diferent?Heroes=/=Vahki. Vahki were tools, Heroes are beings. Everyone is a robot in HF, all the robots are sentient. Their policemen, not guns.#4 Message. Hero's of bionicle toa whith the exeption of the mata villiders who are zaped into heroes. Heros of hero factory are heros made in a factory.The message hero factory sends to kids is "You have to be made in a special factory to be a hero. If your not leave us alone". The message bionicle sends to kids is "Any one can be a hero" And as jalla and garan so eligently put it in island of doom. "You dont need to be a toa to be a hero. I rest my caseBionicle's Toa were super special beings with that as their destiny and blah blah blah,and, as Aanchir pointed out, Jaller went and became a Toa, sort of ruining your point. #5 The heroes. Is a trafic light brave for stopping acedents? NO it does that beacause it is programed to do it. In bionicle the heroes are part bionic part organic therfore alive. They have friends, fears and lives to go back to after they finish the mission. They are afraid of death therfore ALIVE. You can not have courage if you do not have fear. At the begining of ledgens of metru nui, Vakama was scared witless when the dark hunters came to call. At the end he challendged makuta 1 on 1. That is bravery. In Hero factory they are NOT alive DON'T have friends or alive and are PROGRAMED to catch villons and not feel fear. Therfore they are not brave. No. Just no. Is a policeman brave for going up against a mass murderer? Fudge yes. Heroes are fully sentient beings with their own free will, not mindless drones. The Quaza core gives them literal life, which is incapable of being controlled by the builders. How else could Von Ness, a cowardly Hero, defect to villainy, if he was solely programmed to be an emotionless tool with no sense of fear or resentment?I could list another 1000 things wrong whith hero factory but I'v wasted anoughf of your time.Sorry for the bad spelling.Sincerly boston100

I personally loved BIONICLE, but I prefer HF because of its lighter and sillier story, better building system, and LEGO-y-er feel.

**Bambi** · August 24, 2012

To me, Hero Factory is only good for the sets. After seeing Rise of the Rookies, I don't think I can trust Lego with making any more movies or anything.

Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of · August 24, 2012

To me, Hero Factory is only good for the sets. After seeing Rise of the Rookies, I don't think I can trust Lego with making any more movies or anything.

Well, Ordeal of Fire had major pacing issues and Savage Planet, while much better, was so full of corny one liners it was either heaven or Tartarus for you to watch (depends on if you like bad puns!

), but Breakout is actually pretty good. Better than any of the four BIONICLE movies, I dare say. Edited August 24, 2012 by Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of

ZippyWharrgarbl · August 24, 2012

I would like to address the original post with a sincere breakdown of the arguments used in the text."1 names. You have a fire guy you name him furno. You have an ice guy you name him stormer. WHERS THE CREATIVITY? Part of the reason I liked bionicle was beacause it had creative names. Thes sound to childish. If they had named makuta "Toa killer" would he have been so awsome? NO! If lego replaces bionicle I expected them to put some efort into it instead of slaping on tames like "Witch doctor and Hero factory 2.0."Many words in the first years of Bionicle are taken from the Maori language. As the years went on, the names grew more original, but there were still names that fit into your 'uncreative' label. 'Mutran' is 'mutate' and 'transform' stuck together. Some of the Glatorian have names from the Latin language.And Hero Factory, I feel, has suitable names. The Heroes are depicted as living in a more 'human' setting, and they are aimed towards a younger group that may have trouble remembering long, unassociated names. 'Natalie Breez, the Whirlwind' is much easier to remember than 'Hero Renemarua, Hero of Wind'. Besides, as I said, it's aimed towards younger children. Imagine if one of the Heroes had your name! For a kid, that would be pretty cool and brag-worthy to all your friends."#2 Villions. Forgive if I get some things wrong here beacause I don't follow the hero factory story at all. Th villins in hero factory have no motive. For some like me who enjoys crime dramas this is insulting. They try to kill all the hero's instead of Stealing, killing or selling illegal stuff. Ther fore they are not realistic. I am fine with the heros fighting crimanals but PLEAS make them crimanals not nuts who just want to kill all the cops."Well, your first mistake here was not researching your subject! A problem I see all too often in these debates is that people are willing to condemn Hero Factory before even looking at it.The villains in Hero Factory do usually have motives, such as stealing explosives and, recently, breaking out all the other villains from captivity. Also how is it not realistic to want totake out any opposition to your crimes? I mean,it sounds pretty smart to me. You take out Hero Factory, and suddenly there's no one of any real power to stop you doing whatever you want.They do kill- there's a Villain named Core Hunter who rips the Cores from Heroes, and that's considered killing in the storyline- and they do commit crimes other than dancing about in front of Heroes."#3 vahki. When you think about hero factorys are just vahki with personalitys. How ever even before Makuta took them over matoran still hated them. why should hero factory be different. Its like some one at lego said "Lets take vahki make them look less evil and give them personalitys and call them hero factory". That brings up the question why do the hero's have personalities. wouldent it be more efficient to have them like vahki, Robots who surround a criminal and dispose of him whith no emotion? People didn't idolize them for catching crimanls. they treated them like any other piece of law enforsing equiptment. Again why should hero factory be any diferent?"Well, for a start, Heroes are not 'just vahki with personalitys'. Heroes are a very interesting concept, one that has been toyed with many times before; they are sentient machines, with emotions, peronality, and the ability to make decisions based on their feelings and their morals. If you knew how hard it is to program such things as advanced emotions into a heartless robot, you'd be very intrigued by the Heroes themselves.The only thing that is similar between Heroes and Vahki are that they are both robotic law enforcement. Even then, while the Vahki were mass-produced, the Heroes were elite and had to be made with care. And, as you say, Vahki were not idolised. For a start, other people in Makuhero City- where Hero Factory headquarters is located- are also robots. You're not going to go "They're all stupid machines" if you are also a machine, are you? The Heroes were also seemingly relateable; you could hold a decent conversation with them. A Vahki has no opinions, no personality, and it usually cannot speak. You can't ask it about the game last weekend, or its opinion on politics. It'll mot likely just prod you with its staff. Heroes, on the other hand, will respond in a manner typical of living things."#4 Message. Hero's of bionicle toa whith the exeption of the mata villiders who are zaped into heroes. Heros of hero factory are heros made in a factory.The message hero factory sends to kids is "You have to be made in a special factory to be a hero. If your not leave us alone". The message bionicle sends to kids is "Any one can be a hero" And as jalla and garan so eligently put it in island of doom. "You dont need to be a toa to be a hero. I rest my case"You do not seem to rest your case. Matoran were also made by machines in-story, for a start. And you had to be destined to be a Toa to become one. So, if you're not destined or no one gives you a Toa stone, you're stuck as a Matoran. On the other hand, Heroes are not the only law enforcement in their universe. There are normal robotic beings that become law enforcement, and they do pretty well, by the looks of it. The 'message' sent to children was more like 'Good always prevails' or 'The Hero will always beat the Villain'. In Bionicle, there were a lot of messages. The one you have chosen is a little odd for the topic; Jaller became a Toa and thus was able to defeat the Piraka. Garan and his team were not the prime interest for the story arc, the Toa were. The Matoran were swept aside a little."#5 The heroes. Is a trafic light brave for stopping acedents? NO it does that beacause it is programed to do it. In bionicle the heroes are part bionic part organic therfore alive. They have friends, fears and lives to go back to after they finish the mission. They are afraid of death therfore ALIVE. You can not have courage if you do not have fear. At the begining of ledgens of metru nui, Vakama was scared witless when the dark hunters came to call. At the end he challendged makuta 1 on 1. That is bravery. In Hero factory they are NOT alive DON'T have friends or alive and are PROGRAMED to catch villons and not feel fear. Therfore they are not brave."Interestingly, Heroes are not traffic lights. Their eyes may glow, so I can see where you got confused, but it is very easy to spot the differences; look for a Hero Core where the torso would be.In all seriousness, though, Heroes are not programmed to march along according to their orders. There have been cases of Heroes leaving the Hero Factory, as seen with Von Ness/Von Nebula. They ARE capable of making decisions for themselves, and deciding to do things based on emotion, not on facts.Robots, if they are sentient and capable of cognitive thought, CAN fear death. For example, in the movie "Short Circuit", the robot named Number 5 shows a deep fear of being 'disassembled' permanently, which would 'kill' him. A robot that is capable of comprehending a feeling of self, like we do, will most likely understand the concept of disappearing and no longer existing. And they can fear that, as they, like anyone else, would want to keep existing.I could bring up the whole philosophical debate about what makes a thing living, but I might as well shorten it down: a robot that can think, feel, and act indepently can be considered somewhat alive. They can form friendships, as can be seen in the storyline, and they can feel scared or happy or any other emotion. They've even been suggested to feel love.In short, please read into what you're arguing about and use the points you learn about there to discuss the series.

**CeeCee** · August 24, 2012

To me, Hero Factory is only good for the sets. After seeing Rise of the Rookies, I don't think I can trust Lego with making any more movies or anything.
Well, Ordeal of Fire had major pacing issues and Savage Planet, while much better, was so full of corny one liners it was either heaven or Tartarus for you to watch (depends on if you like bad puns! ), but Breakout is actually pretty good. Better than any of the four BIONICLE movies, I dare say.

Are you kidding me? I actually think break out was the worst.

dotcom · August 24, 2012

To me, Hero Factory is only good for the sets. After seeing Rise of the Rookies, I don't think I can trust Lego with making any more movies or anything.
Well, Ordeal of Fire had major pacing issues and Savage Planet, while much better, was so full of corny one liners it was either heaven or Tartarus for you to watch (depends on if you like bad puns! ), but Breakout is actually pretty good. Better than any of the four BIONICLE movies, I dare say.
Are you kidding me? I actually think break out was the worst.

I concur with Alterego. OoF was good, but Hero Factory has gotten progressively worse since then.

**Tilius** · August 24, 2012

.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Tilius

boston100 · August 24, 2012

4. The story can't simply be summarized as "what's Makuta up to this time?"It wasent so simple as "whats Makuta up to this time"Also not All the names in bionicle are chesy

I would like to address the original post with a sincere breakdown of the arguments used in the text."1 names. You have a fire guy you name him furno. You have an ice guy you name him stormer. WHERS THE CREATIVITY? Part of the reason I liked bionicle was beacause it had creative names. Thes sound to childish. If they had named makuta "Toa killer" would he have been so awsome? NO! If lego replaces bionicle I expected them to put some efort into it instead of slaping on tames like "Witch doctor and Hero factory 2.0."Many words in the first years of Bionicle are taken from the Maori language. As the years went on, the names grew more original, but there were still names that fit into your 'uncreative' label. 'Mutran' is 'mutate' and 'transform' stuck together. Some of the Glatorian have names from the Latin language.And Hero Factory, I feel, has suitable names. The Heroes are depicted as living in a more 'human' setting, and they are aimed towards a younger group that may have trouble remembering long, unassociated names. 'Natalie Breez, the Whirlwind' is much easier to remember than 'Hero Renemarua, Hero of Wind'. Besides, as I said, it's aimed towards younger children. Imagine if one of the Heroes had your name! For a kid, that would be pretty cool and brag-worthy to all your friends."#2 Villions. Forgive if I get some things wrong here beacause I don't follow the hero factory story at all. Th villins in hero factory have no motive. For some like me who enjoys crime dramas this is insulting. They try to kill all the hero's instead of Stealing, killing or selling illegal stuff. Ther fore they are not realistic. I am fine with the heros fighting crimanals but PLEAS make them crimanals not nuts who just want to kill all the cops."Well, your first mistake here was not researching your subject! A problem I see all too often in these debates is that people are willing to condemn Hero Factory before even looking at it.The villains in Hero Factory do usually have motives, such as stealing explosives and, recently, breaking out all the other villains from captivity. Also how is it not realistic to want totake out any opposition to your crimes? I mean,it sounds pretty smart to me. You take out Hero Factory, and suddenly there's no one of any real power to stop you doing whatever you want.They do kill- there's a Villain named Core Hunter who rips the Cores from Heroes, and that's considered killing in the storyline- and they do commit crimes other than dancing about in front of Heroes."#3 vahki. When you think about hero factorys are just vahki with personalitys. How ever even before Makuta took them over matoran still hated them. why should hero factory be different. Its like some one at lego said "Lets take vahki make them look less evil and give them personalitys and call them hero factory". That brings up the question why do the hero's have personalities. wouldent it be more efficient to have them like vahki, Robots who surround a criminal and dispose of him whith no emotion? People didn't idolize them for catching crimanls. they treated them like any other piece of law enforsing equiptment. Again why should hero factory be any diferent?"Well, for a start, Heroes are not 'just vahki with personalitys'. Heroes are a very interesting concept, one that has been toyed with many times before; they are sentient machines, with emotions, peronality, and the ability to make decisions based on their feelings and their morals. If you knew how hard it is to program such things as advanced emotions into a heartless robot, you'd be very intrigued by the Heroes themselves.The only thing that is similar between Heroes and Vahki are that they are both robotic law enforcement. Even then, while the Vahki were mass-produced, the Heroes were elite and had to be made with care. And, as you say, Vahki were not idolised. For a start, other people in Makuhero City- where Hero Factory headquarters is located- are also robots. You're not going to go "They're all stupid machines" if you are also a machine, are you? The Heroes were also seemingly relateable; you could hold a decent conversation with them. A Vahki has no opinions, no personality, and it usually cannot speak. You can't ask it about the game last weekend, or its opinion on politics. It'll mot likely just prod you with its staff. Heroes, on the other hand, will respond in a manner typical of living things."#4 Message. Hero's of bionicle toa whith the exeption of the mata villiders who are zaped into heroes. Heros of hero factory are heros made in a factory.The message hero factory sends to kids is "You have to be made in a special factory to be a hero. If your not leave us alone". The message bionicle sends to kids is "Any one can be a hero" And as jalla and garan so eligently put it in island of doom. "You dont need to be a toa to be a hero. I rest my case"You do not seem to rest your case. Matoran were also made by machines in-story, for a start. And you had to be destined to be a Toa to become one. So, if you're not destined or no one gives you a Toa stone, you're stuck as a Matoran. On the other hand, Heroes are not the only law enforcement in their universe. There are normal robotic beings that become law enforcement, and they do pretty well, by the looks of it. The 'message' sent to children was more like 'Good always prevails' or 'The Hero will always beat the Villain'. In Bionicle, there were a lot of messages. The one you have chosen is a little odd for the topic; Jaller became a Toa and thus was able to defeat the Piraka. Garan and his team were not the prime interest for the story arc, the Toa were. The Matoran were swept aside a little."#5 The heroes. Is a trafic light brave for stopping acedents? NO it does that beacause it is programed to do it. In bionicle the heroes are part bionic part organic therfore alive. They have friends, fears and lives to go back to after they finish the mission. They are afraid of death therfore ALIVE. You can not have courage if you do not have fear. At the begining of ledgens of metru nui, Vakama was scared witless when the dark hunters came to call. At the end he challendged makuta 1 on 1. That is bravery. In Hero factory they are NOT alive DON'T have friends or alive and are PROGRAMED to catch villons and not feel fear. Therfore they are not brave."Interestingly, Heroes are not traffic lights. Their eyes may glow, so I can see where you got confused, but it is very easy to spot the differences; look for a Hero Core where the torso would be.In all seriousness, though, Heroes are not programmed to march along according to their orders. There have been cases of Heroes leaving the Hero Factory, as seen with Von Ness/Von Nebula. They ARE capable of making decisions for themselves, and deciding to do things based on emotion, not on facts.Robots, if they are sentient and capable of cognitive thought, CAN fear death. For example, in the movie "Short Circuit", the robot named Number 5 shows a deep fear of being 'disassembled' permanently, which would 'kill' him. A robot that is capable of comprehending a feeling of self, like we do, will most likely understand the concept of disappearing and no longer existing. And they can fear that, as they, like anyone else, would want to keep existing.I could bring up the whole philosophical debate about what makes a thing living, but I might as well shorten it down: a robot that can think, feel, and act indepently can be considered somewhat alive. They can form friendships, as can be seen in the storyline, and they can feel scared or happy or any other emotion. They've even been suggested to feel love.In short, please read into what you're arguing about and use the points you learn about there to discuss the series.

Hi thanks for pointing out the flaws in my argument. This forum is for wheter or not you like hero factory. You didn't say that.

Okay so I purchased a fair few of the heroes a few weeks ago, and i must say, theyre quite nice. I dont think I will be any sort of avid collector or anything, but they do all look amazing.As for story, I really dont like it.

good

Hi, boston. I thought you would post this as a topic soon, and I'd like to share my perspective on it with you. The most important lesson I have learned over the years on this forum is that it is pointless to feel such strong negative emotions as 'hate' about a toyline, storyline, etc. The purpose of these things is entertainment. And the key here is that different people like and dislike -- quite naturally -- different things when it comes to their entertainment.I took a poetry class in college for example, and the thing that struck me the most is that the very things that some of the students said they liked the most were the same things other students said they liked the least. This happened even with comments written by each student prior to any class discussion, so they weren't just reacting against what others said. It is a simple fact of how we humans are, that I've seen echoed time and time again whenever entertainment is in question.It's the same here.You have the reactions you have because you have your own personal tastes. I'm not saying there's no objective quality to these things -- sure, there is, but in order to get a good handle on that, first you need to become very aware of the strong role that varied preferences play. To someone who doesn't realize the role of taste, it may seem obvious that for example with the style of names, Bionicle's style is 'obviously' better. They will typically present it as evidence for their case in criticism, with no further explanation, believing this to be a universal preference. But it's possible others like the more English, "kiddy" type names like Furno and Stormer. Especially for a line geared towards young kids, they do make sense.Now this doesn't mean you have to love everything they do, but when something doesn't appeal to you, then it's best to simply move on and try to find something you do like. Entertainment is meant for fun. If someone's personal tastes don't match it, they shouldn't get upset or hate it or the like. That implies that there's something wrong with making something that someone with different tastes than yours will like. And yet, you would probably enjoy it if people did something that pleased your tastes, right? So you wouldn't feel like something wrong had been done if it pleased you personally. Would you want others to think it was wrong? See where I'm going with this? :)It would simply be best for us all to appreciate each others' differences (they are beneficial; re: my Society Variety theory; tastes derive from varied strengths and weaknesses, and with different people having different strengths, more challenges can be met), and when something doesn't appeal to us, look at it as something still to be happy about that someone else may be getting what pleases them. (In terms of entertainment.) If it turns out it doesn't appeal to enough to be successful, so be it, but that still wouldn't prove anything 'wrong' or hate-worthy had been done. In other words, hating something that doesn't appeal to you is too close to hating other people for being different than you. It's far better simply to dislike it. :)Now I understand that you felt a need for this to be very similar to Bionicle since it was marketed as its successor, but honestly I think we all knew it had to be something new, which means different, though similar in many ways. If they made it a Bionicle clone, other people could be just as upset as you are because they wanted something different. Otherwise why bother ending Bionicle in the first place?I also think a lot of what I'm saying applies to the end of Bionicle. Ultimately, it's all supposed to be entertainment, a story, and stories have endings. This is good. A lot of us, including me, hope Bionicle will return, but don't turn that into a negative and act like it was wrong for it to end. (Of course that doesn't mean the end was done perfectly or anything, but my point is allowing ourselves to feel such strong negative emotions misses the whole point of all this -- to have fun! )Now to specific points:Names -- I kinda like the HF name style sometimes. Some of the minor villains get a bit hard to recall, but the names of the heroes are in line with a popular tradition in modern culture, well established. Also, the Bionicle names are the same thing, just borrowing from other languages rather than English most of the time. It is definitely different in feel, but it's supposed to be.Villains -- I do think the villains are sometimes a little flat in terms of how they oppose the heroes, but believe me it's a lot more varied than you think. You really should watch the TV episodes with an open mind. Yes it's cheesy sometimes and the villains always seem to hold back unrealistically to preserve the heroes, but once you accept that you're watching a show for little kids, it can get pretty interesting and fun. :)Robots -- I really don't see where you're coming from here, but that's probably just because our preferences are different. Most Bionicle fans thought the characters were robots in 2001, and I ran into that misconception all the time over the years. All HF did is remove the confusing (but cool) biomechanical complication and go with what the kids have been seeing such characters as all the time. IMO this was a very wise move. And really, the fact that there were robots like Bohrok and Vahki in Bionicle, I would think would please you rather than disappoint, since earlier you complained about other things changing away from what Bionicle did, like the names.Message -- I can kinda see your point there. We didn't know originally that the Matoran became Toa though. We thought they were special beings, and in the original six Toa's cases that is actually true. So I don't see a big problem here. Also, Bionicle didn't say anyone can be a Toa. Only some were destined. Bionicle did teach the message that you don't have to be a Toa to be a hero, though. It's possible HF will have such a message eventually.But anyways I think HF's real message is that constructivity, imagination, and the like, are important to be good, and that evil always loses in the end, which was also a core part of the Bionicle message but I do think HF has brought it more into focus than it was in Bionicle, at least the construction aspect of it. Bionicle did that a tiny bit (and not well) with the Kaita in 2001 but mostly forgot it later, which is odd considering this is LEGO.Heroes -- They clearly have some kind of freewill, as heroes, instructors, and citizens have become villains, they use imagination, etc. Don't just assume that robot means the limits of real-world current robots (which are really just computers). In fantasy fiction at least, robots can be (and often are) like us. Like Data on Star Trek The Next Generation. And I don't know where you got the idea that they don't feel emotions. They're clearly portrayed as feeling emotions, including fear (again we could compare this to Data with his emotion chip).

Thanks for expressing yur opinion politlly. As you pointed out Hero factory says that villans will lose eventually. Part of the reason I liked Bionicle Is somtimes the heroes lost (2006/2010) and also it had a reallycomplicated story. Both of witch hero factory dosent have.

Lenny7092 · August 24, 2012

I like Hero Factory, but I also like Bionicle.

**Bfahome** · August 24, 2012

It wasent so simple as "whats Makuta up to this time"Also not All the names in bionicle are chesy

But he ended up being behind absolutely everything (other than 2009, which was on another planet). Hero Factory has had four independent villains with separate motives: Von Nebula, Fire Lord, Witch Doctor, and Black Phantom.Also, not all Hero Factory names are cheesy, either.

As you pointed out Hero factory says that villans will lose eventually. Part of the reason I liked Bionicle Is somtimes the heroes lost (2006/2010) and also it had a reallycomplicated story. Both of witch hero factory dosent have.

Any story for kids is going to have the villains lose eventually. At no point was I ever under the impression that the good guys would ultimately lose in BIONICLE.You could easily say that the heroes lost in the Breakout arc. Tons of criminals escaped, only a few were recaptured so far, and Black Phantom stole the factory designs. Again you're still talking about how you don't like HF's story while having already said that you don't follow it.

Nuparu1995 · August 25, 2012

You know, I really don't have any laundry list of reasons why I dislike Hero Factory, I'm just not inclined toward it. Not that passionate of a dislike, either. Yes, I truly "hated" it when the Bionicle line was ending, because I felt it had shoved it away, (which was not at all true). But now I just don't get involved in it, and I don't particularly like it. A little resentment for the whole Bionicle ending thing, but nothing extreme.

ZippyWharrgarbl · August 25, 2012

Hi thanks for pointing out the flaws in my argument. This forum is for wheter or not you like hero factory. You didn't say that.

You're very welcome! I hope I wasn't too blunt, it's just that you didn't seem to know quite what you were arguing in the first post. Remember, even the smallest bit of research on your topic is always good for a decent argument!Well, I thought it quite obvious from my post that I did like Hero Factory to some degree, but if you would like me to say it again: I do like the idea of Hero Factory, but I feel that it was presented in a way that wasn't as good as Bionicle was, it was made for a younger audience rather than the larger target audience Bionicle had, and the timing of it was terrible. I mean, of course some people are going to hate it without even knowing what it is when it's been thrown out there right after Bionicle ended; it seems exactly like a 'replacement' of sorts. I am also a fan of Bionicle, and I am more fond of Bionicle than I am of Hero Factory.

Aanchir · August 25, 2012

Hi thanks for pointing out the flaws in my argument. This forum is for wheter or not you like hero factory. You didn't say that.
You're very welcome! I hope I wasn't too blunt, it's just that you didn't seem to know quite what you were arguing in the first post. Remember, even the smallest bit of research on your topic is always good for a decent argument!Well, I thought it quite obvious from my post that I did like Hero Factory to some degree, but if you would like me to say it again: I do like the idea of Hero Factory, but I feel that it was presented in a way that wasn't as good as Bionicle was, it was made for a younger audience rather than the larger target audience Bionicle had, and the timing of it was terrible. I mean, of course some people are going to hate it without even knowing what it is when it's been thrown out there right after Bionicle ended; it seems exactly like a 'replacement' of sorts. I am also a fan of Bionicle, and I am more fond of Bionicle than I am of Hero Factory.

A lot of people suggest that Hero Factory is aimed at a younger audience than BIONICLE was, but I don't really believe that myself. A lot of BIONICLE fans became fans when they were very young, after all, and the age range for the Hero Factory toys tends to be about the same as for BIONICLE. I think it's more a matter of not driving off younger fans with a lot of mythology to learn each year. Even though the Hero Factory universe expands in small ways each year (for instance, in late 2011 we learned where Quaza comes from), the new knowledge is usually most relevant to the year it's introduced, and not essential knowledge for future years' stories.It should also be considered that kids in different years grow up in different contexts. In BIONICLE's early days, some of the big intellectual properties included the Star Wars prequels, the Harry Potter series, and the Lord of the Rings film franchise. Just a couple years earlier, Pokemon had dominated the marketing scene. All of these are franchises with a lot of facts to learn if you wanted to consider yourself a devoted fan. BIONICLE was shaped around this trend, with the story information deliberately spread across lots of media so fans had to invest themselves deeply in various sources to get the whole story.Today if you look at what franchises are moving the most merchandise, one strong contender is Transformers. While it has always (to my knowledge) been a strongly-selling product line, it has in recent years gained a successful theatrical film franchise. And what does this have in common with the brands that were successful back then? Wide-ranging appeal. The Transformers films are seen as something a lot of age groups can enjoy-- customers aren't too worried about them being too childish or too edgy. And Transformers has never been ashamed to have names with obvious derivations like "Starscream". The same applies for some of the other merchandising phenomena of recent years, like various successful superhero movies.Is the Avengers film inherently more childish than Harry Potter just because it has character names like Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawkeye instead of names like Albus Dumbledore and Lucius Malfoy? No, of course not. So in that case why would Hero Factory be more childish than BIONICLE because of character names like Jawblade or Splitface instead of foreign-sounding character names like Hydraxon, Antroz, and Gelu? Some people might consider such straightforward names "cheesy", but that's just a matter of opinion.One reason I like Hero Factory's story is because it aims at a principle software designers call WYSIWYG-- "What You See is What You Get". If the characters look robotic, it's because they're robots. Good guys look like good guys, and bad guys look like bad guys. The heroes of the story are simply called "heroes", not some in-universe term that a non-fan needs a lexicon to define. The villains have names that describe them (well, except the inexplicable "Thornraxx"). And it's easy to explain to an outside observer, no matter what their age, in just a few sentences, unlike the long, stumbling monologues I'd have to deliver when trying to explain BIONICLE to a non-fan.This doesn't make Hero Factory better than BIONICLE, but it's a lot more accessible for new fans as well as outsiders like parents who want to understand the toys their kids are interested in. And I think the LEGO Group made that decision consciously knowing what they wanted to do differently than BIONICLE and why. Just like how TLG removed gear functions from many later BIONICLE sets after learning that their audience was more interested in role-play than action-based play, TLG constantly learns about their audience as they release new products. And they have to, because that audience-- even within the a single age range-- is always morphing in response to prevailing cultural trends.

**bonesiii** · August 25, 2012

Thanks for expressing yur opinion politlly. As you pointed out Hero factory says that villans will lose eventually. Part of the reason I liked Bionicle Is somtimes the heroes lost (2006/2010) and also it had a reallycomplicated story. Both of witch hero factory dosent have.

You're welcome. ^_^It's definitely true that Bionicle's story was more complex, but to many people (remember the role of preference), that was actually a hindrance to being able to get into it. For many who didn't follow it from the start (and it's a toyline, so to keep going it needed to draw in new generations), it could be very difficult to understand if they hopped into the middle. So I think the move to a simpler story in HF was in many ways a good thing. Obviously to those of us who like a complex story it has its downsides, but again I think the key is to simply remember this is LEGO, a story for young kids, and to appreciate it for what it's worth. ^_^Also, couldn't we describe the heroes losing in 2006 (I assume you mean the Nuva, but not sure?) as a setback? HF and Bionicle both have the heroes experiencing setbacks, but eventually the villains always lose in the end. Even Makuta's famous, grand success at the end of 2008 came crashing (literally) to the ground in 2010. I'm also very unclear on what loss you might be referring to in 2010 for the heroes, though I'm sure there must have been some.I don't think HF has had a hero die like Matoro yet, though of course it hasn't been around as long. And there are plenty of other differences, but again, what I'm mainly trying to point out is that different does not equal bad, you know?

Subjectively those differences will displease some, but please others, to some extent, but at the same time, if you always eat the same food over and over you get tired of it. Variety is good. :)Also, I think if we keep them in perspective it can help us all enjoy it more, or perhaps dislike it less. ^_^

Edited August 25, 2012 by bonesiii

WeatherDragon · August 26, 2012

*facepalms* I thought we went over this, Boston. Come now...It isn't BIONICLE, it has a different mood. Now, if Hero Factory came out under the BIONICLE name, then you could have complained. But this is a different theme with different things.

**CeeCee** · August 26, 2012

*facepalms* I thought we went over this, Boston. Come now...It isn't BIONICLE, it has a different mood. Now, if Hero Factory came out under the BIONICLE name, then you could have complained. But this is a different theme with different things.

I agree. People didn't complain when knights kingdom came out, because Bionicle was still going. Now that Bionicle has ended, people assume it ended to make way for hero Factory.

Xalen: Shadowed Spirit of · August 26, 2012

Hi thanks for pointing out the flaws in my argument. This forum is for wheter or not you like hero factory. You didn't say that.
You're very welcome! I hope I wasn't too blunt, it's just that you didn't seem to know quite what you were arguing in the first post. Remember, even the smallest bit of research on your topic is always good for a decent argument!Well, I thought it quite obvious from my post that I did like Hero Factory to some degree, but if you would like me to say it again: I do like the idea of Hero Factory, but I feel that it was presented in a way that wasn't as good as Bionicle was, it was made for a younger audience rather than the larger target audience Bionicle had, and the timing of it was terrible. I mean, of course some people are going to hate it without even knowing what it is when it's been thrown out there right after Bionicle ended; it seems exactly like a 'replacement' of sorts. I am also a fan of Bionicle, and I am more fond of Bionicle than I am of Hero Factory.
A lot of people suggest that Hero Factory is aimed at a younger audience than BIONICLE was, but I don't really believe that myself. A lot of BIONICLE fans became fans when they were very young, after all, and the age range for the Hero Factory toys tends to be about the same as for BIONICLE. I think it's more a matter of not driving off younger fans with a lot of mythology to learn each year. Even though the Hero Factory universe expands in small ways each year (for instance, in late 2011 we learned where Quaza comes from), the new knowledge is usually most relevant to the year it's introduced, and not essential knowledge for future years' stories.It should also be considered that kids in different years grow up in different contexts. In BIONICLE's early days, some of the big intellectual properties included the Star Wars prequels, the Harry Potter series, and the Lord of the Rings film franchise. Just a couple years earlier, Pokemon had dominated the marketing scene. All of these are franchises with a lot of facts to learn if you wanted to consider yourself a devoted fan. BIONICLE was shaped around this trend, with the story information deliberately spread across lots of media so fans had to invest themselves deeply in various sources to get the whole story.Today if you look at what franchises are moving the most merchandise, one strong contender is Transformers. While it has always (to my knowledge) been a strongly-selling product line, it has in recent years gained a successful theatrical film franchise. And what does this have in common with the brands that were successful back then? Wide-ranging appeal. The Transformers films are seen as something a lot of age groups can enjoy-- customers aren't too worried about them being too childish or too edgy. And Transformers has never been ashamed to have names with obvious derivations like "Starscream". The same applies for some of the other merchandising phenomena of recent years, like various successful superhero movies.Is the Avengers film inherently more childish than Harry Potter just because it has character names like Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawkeye instead of names like Albus Dumbledore and Lucius Malfoy? No, of course not. So in that case why would Hero Factory be more childish than BIONICLE because of character names like Jawblade or Splitface instead of foreign-sounding character names like Hydraxon, Antroz, and Gelu? Some people might consider such straightforward names "cheesy", but that's just a matter of opinion.One reason I like Hero Factory's story is because it aims at a principle software designers call WYSIWYG-- "What You See is What You Get". If the characters look robotic, it's because they're robots. Good guys look like good guys, and bad guys look like bad guys. The heroes of the story are simply called "heroes", not some in-universe term that a non-fan needs a lexicon to define. The villains have names that describe them (well, except the inexplicable "Thornraxx"). And it's easy to explain to an outside observer, no matter what their age, in just a few sentences, unlike the long, stumbling monologues I'd have to deliver when trying to explain BIONICLE to a non-fan.This doesn't make Hero Factory better than BIONICLE, but it's a lot more accessible for new fans as well as outsiders like parents who want to understand the toys their kids are interested in. And I think the LEGO Group made that decision consciously knowing what they wanted to do differently than BIONICLE and why. Just like how TLG removed gear functions from many later BIONICLE sets after learning that their audience was more interested in role-play than action-based play, TLG constantly learns about their audience as they release new products. And they have to, because that audience-- even within the a single age range-- is always morphing in response to prevailing cultural trends.

Erm, Thornraxx isn't inexplicable. It's a pun on thorn and thorax, a term in insectoid anatomy.

**LewaLew** · August 26, 2012

I thought we settled this in 2010. Though I suppose it deserves going over again now that we know what we are talking about after two years of HF have gone by.Personally, I think I had outgrown Hero Factory once it got started. Am I necesarily all that interested in BIONICLE, though. No. Everyone's tastes evolve, and as much as I loved to follow BIONICLE and look forward to Hero Factory in the past, I now prefer following sports and to a more limited extent, world events such as conflicts in the Middle East and politics. However, I can still see several things about LEGO's constraction lines that I like and dislike. LIke bonesiii has been saying for years, whether something is good or bad in entertainment depends on who is being entertained. You cannot find solid proof that Hero Factory is any better or worse than BIONICLE, anymore than you can prove that Pepsi is any better or worse than Coca-Cola. It all depends on what flavor you like more.I prefer BIONICLE, myself, but I must say, some of the Hero Factory sets I've seen put the BIONICLE sets to shame in my eyes. Also, while its story does seem juvenile to me, Hero Factory is more fun than BIONICLE to me. BIONICLE was a more serious property, and while seriousness has its merits, it seems right to me that a toy line should have levity rather than a broad epic storyline. However, the story was always more important than the sets to me, and so I prefer BIONICLE's epic storyline to Hero Factory's episodic one.

Toa Zaz · August 27, 2012

Set-wise, I would say Hero Factory is far superior to at least the later half of the Bionicle sets. By the end, Bionicle was just cranking out ugly, simplistic, badly-proportioned, and overly expensive Inika and Av-Matoran clones. In Hero Factory's first wave, the sets were similar to that, but were improved in a lot of ways (proportions were somewhat fixed, limbs weren't at odd angles). In later waves, Hero Factory engineered a much more versatile, aesthetically pleasing, and overall cheaper building system that really out shown most of what came before. If for nothing else, Hero Factory deserves credit for that.Now the story, on the other hand... Here's how I'll put it. With the Bionicle story, as long as I didn't think about any more of it than what was supposed to be taken at face value, I could accept and stay engaged in it, to a degree. The Hero Factory story, however, is so simplistic, juvenile, boring, generic, derivative, unengaging, plot hole-ridden, and completely marketed for kids that even the basic plot can't be taken seriously. It's terrible. The creators seem to be very sophomoric and at times seem to be just trying to poorly imitate other, better stuff. 'Hey, let's add a fist bump, to be like Bionicle, even though we never reference it or see it again! Let's have Fire Lord's theme basically be a cheap version of the Imperial March from Star Wars! Everybody liked that, right?' Nobody seems to be enjoying making it, either. Some of the voice actors seem to be treating the material like it's an easy paycheck, if not a chore. The ridiculous plot shows that the creators couldn't care less about quality, and everything ends up being "just good enough." Not only does it's focus on it's kid demographic so much that it isolates any other viewership, but it doesn't even seem to be trying that hard. It just uses lame jokes that everyone seems to think kids like, for some reason. I mean, "Get down, as in boogie?" Seriously? Plenty of successful projects have appealed to kids without stooping down this low. It's godawful, and probably irredeemably so.Some of you will argue that Bionicle was much more simplistic when it started, too. But Bionicle knew it just started and that it had to develop the story and the characters (to mixed results) before it asked us to care about them. Mata Nui Online Game and the Bohrok animations were there to make us care about Takua and Jaller and those guys before they really did stuff with them in Mask of Light. Hero Factory expects us to care about what happens to Stormer and Furno four episodes in, after they haven't been developed whatsoever or done anything to make us interested in them whatsoever. Bionicle cared (note the past tense; they cared when, and because, they wanted to sell sets), and Hero Factory doesn't.Also, on a side note, Hero Factory's marketing strategy for the TV Series is nonexistent. They don't even announce that they are going to air the episodes, let alone when. If Lego worries about lack of viewership, then maybe they should try informing the masses that there's anything to view.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Toa Zaz

Aanchir · September 14, 2012

Now the story, on the other hand... Here's how I'll put it. With the Bionicle story, as long as I didn't think about any more of it than what was supposed to be taken at face value, I could accept and stay engaged in it, to a degree. The Hero Factory story, however, is so simplistic, juvenile, boring, generic, derivative, unengaging, plot hole-ridden, and completely marketed for kids that even the basic plot can't be taken seriously. It's terrible. The creators seem to be very sophomoric and at times seem to be just trying to poorly imitate other, better stuff. 'Hey, let's add a fist bump, to be like Bionicle, even though we never reference it or see it again! Let's have Fire Lord's theme basically be a cheap version of the Imperial March from Star Wars! Everybody liked that, right?'

...And here's about where I started having trouble taking these complaints seriously. News flash: BIONICLE didn't invent the fist-bump. It's a gesture of mutual congratulation used all the time in real life, and in fact its use in Hero Factory is a lot closer to the real-life use of the gesture than to BIONICLE's use of it, where it was used as a greeting or a symbol of unity, like how a handshake might be used in real life.As for the Fire Villains' theme, I admit I haven't heard it in a while, but isn't it just the Hero Factory main theme played in a lower key, with perhaps a few different instruments over top of it? That's how I seem to remember it. In that respect I don't see how it's ripping off the Imperial March any more than Avatar: The Last Airbender's Fire Nation March.As far as the voice acting is concerned, I think most of the voice actors do a pretty good job matching the mood of the scenes they're acting, which is really what good voice acting is supposed to be. Some of the jokes are really juvenile, but I don't think that's a terrible thing unless they're jokes that make no sense in-universe like Jimi Stringer's "cattle wrangling" comment in Savage Planet. Those jokes are what, for me, really make the show difficult to enjoy at times, although the overall story doesn't really suffer because of them.On a side note, I recommend that anyone who likes the Hero Factory theme in terms of concept but finds the show corny or poorly-written read The Doom Box, Greg Farshtey's first Hero Factory chapter book. I picked it up a few days ago and loved it. It's unmistakably the same universe and characters as the show depicts, but a lot more fleshed-out and with some of the more juvenile fluff like corny jokes absent.

Hero factory or Zero factory

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