[Update 9/20] Disguised Great Being Revealed!

[bonesiii]

We know they are organic, and wear clothes. Beyond that we don't know much, but there's no evidence they are shapeshifters beyond the transferring of consciousness that we're talking about here. I agree the most likely theory is that his body is stored somewhere in stasis.I imagine they are basically like organic titans, perhaps similar to Tuma's species without the armor and implants. (Although maybe they have those too, to some extent.)

[onionfarb]

He probably transferred his spirit the same way Mata Nui's spirit was transferred into the Ignika. His body is probably in stasis, waiting for him to return to his original body just in case he ever needs to. I imagine that the GBs are humans, exept they've altered themselves a whole lot. They probably have all the abilities of a Toa, a Makuta, and an Element Lord, and more.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Magnetic Vorahk

[Toa Of Virtues]

I remember someone saying that the Great Beings are like the scientists who created the atom bomb. They have the power to create things more powerful than themselves. Maybe the Great Beings arn't as powerful as we think they are.

[The Iron Toa]

I used that analogy (but I might not have been the only one.) It's possible they have some special abilities, especially ones granted by artificial enhancements they gave themselves. But if the GBs were a match for the Element Lords in terms of personal power, couldn't they have ended or averted the Core War by simply confronting and defeating the Element Lords? Granted, the ELs had armies behind them, but I think if the GBs themselves were as intimidating as their owned creations, they would have had a good chance of convincing the warriors of Spherus Magna to disobey the Element Lords, or if that failed, merely devastating the ELs' armies with their superior powers. Instead, they stayed in seclusion and made more inventions to fix the problem.Oh, yeah, just remembered -- we know they have special powers relating to Matoran Universe creations. Namely, they can make themselves invisible to MU beings, and can switch off Kanohi from a distance, even between dimensions. But these aren't powers so much as special override commands to their technology.

Edited September 17, 2012 by The Iron Toa

[bonesiii]

But if the GBs were a match for the Element Lords in terms of personal power, couldn't they have ended or averted the Core War by simply confronting and defeating the Element Lords?

I get the impression that any abilities they have are purely used to keep themselves safe from others, especially their own creations. If an Element Lord hunted a GB, the GB might have power for effective self-defense, but the GB would not hunt down Element Lords to seek a fight if they were merely a match or anything close to it as they'd be putting themselves in harm's way.In other words, they don't seem to care enough about others to personally risk their lives for them. Although I get the impression that might not be quite true of Angonce.

[The Iron Toa]

Good point. They're not warriors. But I was thinking, they put themselves and everyone else at risk by entrusting the fate of their world to their astronomically-sized robots, so they could be courageous enough to confront the ELs if they had the might. But still, creating a great machine that might fail catastrophically and fighting in personal combat are quite different things, and the Great Beings don't think like us anyway.

[bonesiii]

We know the GBs have a self-destruct signal they could use to destroy the giant robots if they ever came against them. And Greg said that in the long term, life on the remains of Spherus Magna would be destroyed if it wasn't reformed, so not trusting to giant robots would be just as bad.Also, where exactly are the GBs now? Angonce is on SM, but I get the impression the others may have left it. Could be utterly wrong though.

[The Iron Toa]

Oh, I didn't know about the self-destruct signal. And it's true that once the Shattering happened, they would need to do whatever it took to reverse it.In addition to Angonce, Velika and the insane Great Being are also on Spherus Magna.

[Biff]

But if the GBs were a match for the Element Lords in terms of personal power, couldn't they have ended or averted the Core War by simply confronting and defeating the Element Lords?

I get the impression that any abilities they have are purely used to keep themselves safe from others, especially their own creations. If an Element Lord hunted a GB, the GB might have power for effective self-defense, but the GB would not hunt down Element Lords to seek a fight if they were merely a match or anything close to it as they'd be putting themselves in harm's way.In other words, they don't seem to care enough about others to personally risk their lives for them. Although I get the impression that might not be quite true of Angonce.

Besides, why kill your creations when you could create something to do it for you?

[bonesiii]

In addition to Angonce, Velika and the insane Great Being are also on Spherus Magna.

Right, but I wasn't really counting those two, as we already know why they are, independant from the others.

[fishers64]

We know the GBs have a self-destruct signal they could use to destroy the giant robots if they ever came against them. And Greg said that in the long term, life on the remains of Spherus Magna would be destroyed if it wasn't reformed, so not trusting to giant robots would be just as bad.Also, where exactly are the GBs now? Angonce is on SM, but I get the impression the others may have left it. Could be utterly wrong though.

They do? They why haven't they used on SM already if they want to get rid of the MU inhabitants on SM, instead resorting to measures like Marendar?I thought it was confirmed the GBs "sought refuge elsewhere" -BS01. I also kinda remember a Greg quote about Angonce staying behind becuase of his love for SM inhabitants. The implication is that the rest of them left.

[bonesiii]

We know the GBs have a self-destruct signal they could use to destroy the giant robots if they ever came against them. And Greg said that in the long term, life on the remains of Spherus Magna would be destroyed if it wasn't reformed, so not trusting to giant robots would be just as bad.Also, where exactly are the GBs now? Angonce is on SM, but I get the impression the others may have left it. Could be utterly wrong though.

They do? They why haven't they used on SM already if they want to get rid of the MU inhabitants on SM, instead resorting to measures like Marendar?I thought it was confirmed the GBs "sought refuge elsewhere" -BS01. I also kinda remember a Greg quote about Angonce staying behind becuase of his love for SM inhabitants. The implication is that the rest of them left.

We were talking about if the giant robots attacked the GBs directly. They could self-destruct them as self-defense.Is there any indication the GBs as a whole want to get rid of MU inhabitants? Not just Velika? Angonce tried to prevent Marendar from getting loose; and it was a safeguard against Toa, not the giant robot. Given that Velika started out by doing something against the will of the GBs, I doubt the main group wants to get rid of them.But even granting, for sake of discussion, that they want to kill MU inhabitants, given that they created the giant robot in the first place to save the SM inhabitants, blowing up the robots now would either miss the MU inhabitants who are living with the SM ones, or kill among both groups, so I don't see how that would serve the GBs' goals as a whole. Marendar is more surgical against Toa alone, at least as far as we know -- it might cause some collateral damage, but the whole point was to protect the SM inhabitants from rogue Toa.And anyways, doesn't the fact that the GBs as a whole are not on SM answer the question? They don't know what's happening there, and aren't in range to activate the self-destruct. The one who is there without doing anything secretively against their will, Angonce, clearly doesn't want to kill the MUians. And Velika seems to only want to kill the powerful ones, so I would expect the self-destruct to have been activated. It also might not work anymore, not sure.Anyways, the giant robots are not functional now, so are not going to come after the GBs. Edited September 18, 2012 by bonesiii

[Erebus]

I have updated the first post to reflect the new information I received on Velika's motive for killing Tren Krom and Karzahni:

Velika is eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

[The Iron Toa]

I have updated the first post to reflect the new information I received on Velika's motive for killing Tren Krom and Karzahni:

Velika is eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

Oh? I understand killing Karzahni in that case, but Tren Krom? He seemed to do what they intended, except during Teridax's Reign.

[bonesiii]

I have updated the first post to reflect the new information I received on Velika's motive for killing Tren Krom and Karzahni:Velika is eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

Oh? I understand killing Karzahni in that case, but Tren Krom? He seemed to do what they intended, except during Teridax's Reign.

Well, he helped save the universe. He had good motive to, for his own sake. He likely was always intending to pursue his own goals after that time.Fascinating news. Partially confirms the earlier theory about why he's 'cleaning house', though it's not perhaps so much about powerful beings but any being, powerful or not, who is not helping this mysterious plan. It seems the only reason for his focus on powerful ones is to get them out of the way first, so that then he can easily take out the less powerful but still "anti-plan" ones. Yet others, it seems, still fit in the plan.That wording of "expected parameters" seems to imply that Velika is in line with the other GBs' plans. Is this implying there still is an original plan that Velika is staying true to, beyond merely reforming Spherus Magna? Or does "the GB's plan" as well as "expected parameters" merely refer to a personal plan of Velika? The singular "GB's" instead of plural "GBs'" seems to imply the latter, but expected parameters seems to imply original programming back when the giant robot was made. Hm..

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I have updated the first post to reflect the new information I received on Velika's motive for killing Tren Krom and Karzahni:

Velika is eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

This makes sense with Karzahni. As for Tren Krom, I agree with The Iron Toa that it seemed like he did what he was suppose to do except in the RoS. (Though maybe that was part of his destiny too?) But as Bonesiii stated, his future plans probably wouldn't have been in the best interest of the reformed Spherus Magna.This may also explain why he would want to kill everyone in the GB fortress. Brutaka, Vezon, Tuyet and the others could have been considered 'wild cards' to Velika. And if he knew that they would go to the Red Star when they died (assuming they still would while not inside the MU), then that would explain why he would destroy it with Kapura, Hafu, Axonn, and the other good guys in there that wouldn't be considered 'wild cards' to him. They wouldn't truly be killed, and the beings who acted outside the 'parameters' of the GB plans would be removed from the picture.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Toa Smoke Monster

[bonesiii]

This makes sense with Karzahni. As for Tren Krom, I agree with The Iron Toa that it seemed like he did what he was suppose to do except in the RoS. (Though maybe that was part of his destiny too?) This may also explain why he would want to kill everyone in the GB fortress. Brutaka, Vezon, Tuyet and the others could have been considered 'wild cards' to Velika.

Maybe the parameters Velika is expecting are not the ones the other GBs are, so his doing what he was supposed to, to them, is irrelevant? Although, if that was true, I'd expect the word "his" instead of "the GB's".

[Makuta Matata]

So most of the Toa and Matoran are safe from him? Seems like he is in the MU to preserve the peace rather than to wreak havoc.

You know, it's really nice to be using spoiler tags to talk about Bionicle stuff again. I mean, it's a hassle, but it feels good to know we have new news. XD

[bonesiii]

So, here's what we know about Velika:

The Great Being is Velika. [He] was already named Velika before inhabiting the Matoran body.Velika is indeed the killer of Tren Krom and Karzahni. He was doing some housecleaning... eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

We also know new things about the Red Star, but no clear confirmation that Velika is worrying about that. We have merely the correlation between these two threads within the storytelling itself of The Powers That Be. So for now let's ignore that -- and there's some evidence, seen below, that he is not thinking about the RS:

So far, he had killed Tren Krom and Karzahni… one a madman, the other a gelatinous mass of hot air. Neither proved to be much of a challenge. The Toa were keeping the whole thing quiet, as they often did. Although the two heroes investigating the murders, Kopaka and Pohatu, had recently vanished, he was not overly concerned. They would turn up eventually. The plan required it.

The first major question is, whose plan? Just Velika's plan? Or is this a plan all the GBs planned originally?I think Greg's recent reveals all support the idea that Velika did not enter the MU intending some other plan than the GBs. He did it without their knowledge, but he kept his original name, so he couldn't have been too worried they might find out. However, he could have formed his own plan later, and TPTB gives evidence of this:

As time passed and things had become clear to him, he had known this time would come.

However, the thins that became clear to him could have simply been the unexpected ability for beings to act beyond original expected parameters; freewill, and he could still be trying to get back to the entire GBs' goals.But then, there's this line:

in which only he knew the rules.

The 'loyal' idea could still be salvaged here though, if he just means "only he on SM" or the like. But he seems too happy with killing for that, as if he is a serial killer. (Which, though, might not fit Velika's original character enough. I always got the impression he was genuinely a good guy. ) Also, the whole "GB's" versus "GBs'" wording thing in Greg's reveal.But I think we can get strong evidence to answer this here:

Here, in the wooded region of Spherus Magna, the Great Beings had plied their trade many years agone. Now one remained inside that fortress, quite mad, but still brilliant and dangerous nonetheless.For the watcher’s purposes, he hardly mattered. No, what was important about that building was who else was inside it now.

Notice he's perfectly willing to murder a fellow Great Being in order to pursue his own purposes! It's not just the artificial life.This is strong evidence that the "things that became clear" include rebelling from the other GBs' plans. The expected parameters could still be the whole group's original plans, but that he wanted to use the things within those plans for his own goals.That also makes me wonder if he has been on a bad track from the start, and went into hiding in the MU partially to hide from the GBs, but just haven't committed a major offense and didn't think they'd be likely to look for him there. But something snapped along the way and now he'll murder beings he knows are fully sapient, and even his own kind.

So most of the Toa and Matoran are safe from him? Seems like he is in the MU to preserve the peace rather than to wreak havoc.

Probably most of them. But he may not have been in there to preserve peace so much as to watch for beings he could use for an evil purpose, and to hide. A purpose he thinks of as good, however, but Orde thinks is evil.

[MaksDudekVA]

So, here's what we know about Velika:

The Great Being is Velika. [He] was already named Velika before inhabiting the Matoran body.Velika is indeed the killer of Tren Krom and Karzahni. He was doing some housecleaning... eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

We also know new things about the Red Star, but no clear confirmation that Velika is worrying about that. We have merely the correlation between these two threads within the storytelling itself of The Powers That Be. So for now let's ignore that -- and there's some evidence, seen below, that he is not thinking about the RS:

So far, he had killed Tren Krom and Karzahni… one a madman, the other a gelatinous mass of hot air. Neither proved to be much of a challenge. The Toa were keeping the whole thing quiet, as they often did. Although the two heroes investigating the murders, Kopaka and Pohatu, had recently vanished, he was not overly concerned. They would turn up eventually. The plan required it.

The first major question is, whose plan? Just Velika's plan? Or is this a plan all the GBs planned originally?I think Greg's recent reveals all support the idea that Velika did not enter the MU intending some other plan than the GBs. He did it without their knowledge, but he kept his original name, so he couldn't have been too worried they might find out. However, he could have formed his own plan later, and TPTB gives evidence of this:

As time passed and things had become clear to him, he had known this time would come.

However, the thins that became clear to him could have simply been the unexpected ability for beings to act beyond original expected parameters; freewill, and he could still be trying to get back to the entire GBs' goals.But then, there's this line:

in which only he knew the rules.

The 'loyal' idea could still be salvaged here though, if he just means "only he on SM" or the like. But he seems too happy with killing for that, as if he is a serial killer. (Which, though, might not fit Velika's original character enough. I always got the impression he was genuinely a good guy. ) Also, the whole "GB's" versus "GBs'" wording thing in Greg's reveal.But I think we can get strong evidence to answer this here:

Here, in the wooded region of Spherus Magna, the Great Beings had plied their trade many years agone. Now one remained inside that fortress, quite mad, but still brilliant and dangerous nonetheless.For the watcher’s purposes, he hardly mattered. No, what was important about that building was who else was inside it now.

Notice he's perfectly willing to murder a fellow Great Being in order to pursue his own purposes! It's not just the artificial life.This is strong evidence that the "things that became clear" include rebelling from the other GBs' plans. The expected parameters could still be the whole group's original plans, but that he wanted to use the things within those plans for his own goals.That also makes me wonder if he has been on a bad track from the start, and went into hiding in the MU partially to hide from the GBs, but just haven't committed a major offense and didn't think they'd be likely to look for him there. But something snapped along the way and now he'll murder beings he knows are fully sapient, and even his own kind.

So most of the Toa and Matoran are safe from him? Seems like he is in the MU to preserve the peace rather than to wreak havoc.

Probably most of them. But he may not have been in there to preserve peace so much as to watch for beings he could use for an evil purpose, and to hide. A purpose he thinks of as good, however, but Orde thinks is evil.

man we've got alot of new info now eh? but wait, since we know now that the dead go to the red star, dosen't that mean that makuta is there? and lhikan, and matoro?

[bonesiii]

toa jalokim, that should be discussed in the Red Star topic, and is being discussed. See the posts there about it (short answer, probably not for some -- maybe for Lhikan, but we have no way of knowing).

[Katuko]

I have updated the first post to reflect the new information I received on Velika's motive for killing Tren Krom and Karzahni:

Velika is eliminating wild cards, beings who are acting way outside of the expected parameters of the GB's plans.

This makes sense with Karzahni. As for Tren Krom, I agree with The Iron Toa that it seemed like he did what he was suppose to do except in the RoS. (Though maybe that was part of his destiny too?) But as Bonesiii stated, his future plans probably wouldn't have been in the best interest of the reformed Spherus Magna.This may also explain why he would want to kill everyone in the GB fortress. Brutaka, Vezon, Tuyet and the others could have been considered 'wild cards' to Velika. And if he knew that they would go to the Red Star when they died (assuming they still would while not inside the MU), then that would explain why he would destroy it with Kapura, Hafu, Axonn, and the other good guys in there that wouldn't be considered 'wild cards' to him. They wouldn't truly be killed, and the beings who acted outside the 'parameters' of the GB plans would be removed from the picture.

- Karzahni was insane and power-hungry, then even more insane. Killing him thus fits the description of "wildcards".- Tren Krom had no purpose anymore besides being terrifying to everyone and wielding strong powers that could cause some havoc. He can also be counted as a wildcard.- Brutaka is not himself, but is channeling the essence of the Makuta species, which Mata Nui created (not the Great Beings) and that went evil. With Spherus Magna having been reformed (the goal of the Antidermis), Brutaka is therefore unpredictable as well.- Miserix is another Makuta.- Vezon is insane and has a malfunctioning Olmak stuck to his face. Definitely dangerous.- Tuyet was/is murderous and power-hungry.- Helryx had just tried to make the MU "brain" go boom. I'm not sure if Velika knows this, but her power and influence and deviation from the Toa Code could be enough to make her seem potentially dangerous. Alternately, she is a casualty (for whom the memorial marker might be made).- Artakha may be another casualty, or his powers are simply too great for (perhaps paranoid?) Velika to let live.- Axonn is likely a casualty since he's not too special, or he simply joined the wrong side (Helryx wanting to destroy the MU) regardless of his doubts.

[Alyska]

We're forgetting that The Yesterday Quest serial stars another character who could be considered to be "malfunctioning"/acting outside the parameters: Orde. What if he was going to be the next intended victim? Actually, this motive does make it seem more as if Orde's backstory was well thought out after all. The first time I read it, I got the distinct feeling that Greg was making it all up as he went along, trying to cover up the fact that he accidentally made a male Toa of Psionics, but I have to say, this does tie everything together really well.It also brings up some pretty horrific implications for what might have happened to the rest of the Voya Nui Resistance team... their behaviour could easily be considered "acting outside the expected parameters" even if it was for the greater good. Consider especially that Kazi acted somewhat hostile towards Velika. Against unfriendly Agori or even Glatorian, those Matoran could quite easily be considered a threat. And I'm a bit late to all this, but I would like to put in my two cents' worth on the choice of the Great Being: to be perfectly honest, it does seem a bit like it was pulled out of nowhere. There was no foreshadowing, no mention of Velika or any other Voya Nui Matoran earlier in the serials- we hadn't heard anything from him in six years. I think in any mystery, there should always be clues to follow, even if they are ridiculously difficult. Perhaps if the chapters had continued, we would have seen something of this, but as things are, there was nothing that led up to it at all. It just seems... isolated from the rest of the story, if that makes sense.There's nothing holding it in place. At least if it had been Kapura, it would be someone we'd seen recently- and someone who was actively participating in the rebellion against Makuta too. So, while I like the reveal of the motive, the GB himself doesn't seem to fit.

[GallifreyanOrigin]

It also brings up some pretty horrific implications for what might have happened to the rest of the Voya Nui Resistance team... their behaviour could easily be considered "acting outside the expected parameters" even if it was for the greater good. Consider especially that Kazi acted somewhat hostile towards Velika. Against unfriendly Agori or even Glatorian, those Matoran could quite easily be considered a threat.And I'm a bit late to all this, but I would like to put in my two cents' worth on the choice of the Great Being: to be perfectly honest, it does seem a bit like it was pulled out of nowhere. There was no foreshadowing, no mention of Velika or any other Voya Nui Matoran earlier in the serials- we hadn't heard anything from him in six years. I think in any mystery, there should always be clues to follow, even if they are ridiculously difficult. Perhaps if the chapters had continued, we would have seen something of this, but as things are, there was nothing that led up to it at all. It just seems... isolated from the rest of the story, if that makes sense.There's nothing holding it in place. At least if it had been Kapura, it would be someone we'd seen recently- and someone who was actively participating in the rebellion against Makuta too. So, while I like the reveal of the motive, the GB himself doesn't seem to fit.

As far as the Voya Nui Resistance Team being a threat goes, I would doubt it since they're not really an active force anymore, and Velika seems to be targeting more powerful entities.In regards to the lack of foreshadowing, well, that's the problem with external revelations like these; we don't get to see it play out in the story. But there was the bit where he was carving the memorial marker, which several people took to indicate a that it was really a Po-Matoran, so there's something, at least.

[MaksDudekVA]

there are other reasons that velika was the perfect candidate (in my opinion) and that was because he had the personality of a great being, Greg never wrote about what he was thinking (we only heard him through dialogues)Oh and he was an inventor

[bonesiii]

And I'm a bit late to all this, but I would like to put in my two cents' worth on the choice of the Great Being: to be perfectly honest, it does seem a bit like it was pulled out of nowhere. There was no foreshadowing, no mention of Velika or any other Voya Nui Matoran earlier in the serials- we hadn't heard anything from him in six years. I think in any mystery, there should always be clues to follow, even if they are ridiculously difficult

Like I said before, there was plenty of foreshadowing, whether originally intended for this or not; it fits perfectly (which is why the majority of people following the 'who is it' topics had come to agree it was Velika. ) All in 2006 at that, plus in 2001 we knew of Great Beings and most people assumed they were all watching things actively. And this flows naturally out of the learning that this life is artificial -- made by the GBs.Also, what other twists have had more foreshadowing? This idea of criticizing a twist for this reason appears to be completely new to this instance, and I must wonder why? It seems like it's basically just because this came after the end of the main plot.When we found out Mata Nui was dying, there was no obvious foreshadowing. Merely working from the principle that someone who's in a coma might eventually die (just as this works from a basic principle that makes sense). The twist of Bara Magna and the reforming, barely anything other than the basic assumption that the GBs had to come from somewhere else. Metru Nui, you could argue there was none, and many people did claim that, though Greg in that case confirmed the whole Biomechanical thing was meant to be.Giant robot? If you didn't pay close attention you could say there was none, though many saw them, just as if you don't look at the details of Velika and the GBs in 2006 you could say there was none. Makuta species? Makuta not dead from 2001 prior to the vid at the end of the Kal section. Bohrok -- a little but in the very year before and pretty much only in MNOG as far as I recall.The list can go on and on. Edited September 23, 2012 by bonesiii

[toa kopaka4372]

And I'm a bit late to all this, but I would like to put in my two cents' worth on the choice of the Great Being: to be perfectly honest, it does seem a bit like it was pulled out of nowhere. There was no foreshadowing, no mention of Velika or any other Voya Nui Matoran earlier in the serials- we hadn't heard anything from him in six years. I think in any mystery, there should always be clues to follow, even if they are ridiculously difficult

Like I said before, there was plenty of foreshadowing, whether originally intended for this or not; it fits perfectly (which is why the majority of people following the 'who is it' topics had come to agree it was Velika. ) All in 2006 at that, plus in 2001 we knew of Great Beings and most people assumed they were all watching things actively. And this flows naturally out of the learning that this life is artificial -- made by the GBs.Also, what other twists have had more foreshadowing? This idea of criticizing a twist for this reason appears to be completely new to this instance, and I must wonder why? It seems like it's basically just because this came after the end of the main plot.When we found out Mata Nui was dying, there was no obvious foreshadowing. Merely working from the principle that someone who's in a coma might eventually die (just as this works from a basic principle that makes sense). The twist of Bara Magna and the reforming, barely anything other than the basic assumption that the GBs had to come from somewhere else. Metru Nui, you could argue there was none, and many people did claim that, though Greg in that case confirmed the whole Biomechanical thing was meant to be.Giant robot? If you didn't pay close attention you could say there was none, though many saw them, just as if you don't look at the details of Velika and the GBs in 2006 you could say there was none. Makuta species? Makuta not dead from 2001 prior to the vid at the end of the Kal section. Bohrok -- a little but in the very year before and pretty much only in MNOG as far as I recall.The list can go on and on.

Sorry bonesii, but I'm going to have to disagree on the Mata Nui robot part. :PThe story twist with Mata Nui being the Matoran Universe as well as a giant robot probably and the most foreshadowing in the series, from Day One, and I can't help but admire how well the clues were pace over the years. There was the impenetrable rock layer in MNOG, the landmarks of Mata Nui being named after facial features, the line "He's a big machine" in MoL, the twin suns in Metru Nui closing like eyes in LoMN, and other stuff as well.The Av-Matoran-Bohrok connection had foreshadowing from 2002, with the Bahrag's "brothers" line and the statue of a Matoran standing in front of a Bohrok on Destral.Now, if you were to say that there was no foreshadowing for the "GB in disguise in the MU" twist, alright, fine, but the fact that a lot of people guessed it was Velika before the revelation proved that GregF picked the character who matched the GB best, so I don't have complaints about that. No offense to anyone, but I don't think the argument that it should've been Kapura is valid, and besides, Greg confirmed it wasn't him two years ago, so...Finally, I think it's best Kapura was who he seemed to be; he's arguably the most unique Matoran in BIONICLE, and having him actually be a GB would undermine that.

[Toa Of Virtues]

I would have liked to see Keetongu be the Great Being. I think Velika was almost.. too predictable. I think Keetongu would have fit the GB personality perfectly. He even had an eye built for observing people. Also, we don't know much about Velika as a Matoran. Sure, he spoke in riddles and was in the Voya Nui resistance team, but that's pretty much it. We know much more about Keetongu, all but his past. IMO, it would have been a bigger shock if it was someone we thought we knew a lot about, than someone we knew very little about. On the other hand, I like that it's Velika, because I can rebuild his set much quicker than Keetongu.

[bonesiii]

Sorry bonesii, but I'm going to have to disagree on the Mata Nui robot part. :PThe story twist with Mata Nui being the Matoran Universe as well as a giant robot probably and the most foreshadowing in the series, from Day One,

You're not really disagreeing with me on that -- my point is that someone can miss clues that were intentional and mistakenly believe something wasn't foreshadowed. A lot of people have made the same accusation of the giant robot thing -- they somehow missed all the clues you and I know were there.(And again to be clear I'm including things the story team might not have originally intended as clues that later on work for them, like Velika's personality.)See what I'm saying? Not that these examples I give were NOT foreshadowed, but that it's too easy for claims of negative absolutes -- "not foreshadowed" to simply be wrong. Plus, how do you draw the line on what counts as foreshadowing or not? Is it merely what the author consciously intends? I say no. Anything in previous story that could, even subconsciously, open up the possibility of the twist, or the likelihood, can be counted as potential foreshadowing. Even if the authors didn't consciously intend it (because the subconscious can be quite mysterious on such things).In other words, the fact that some people claimed things like the giant robot weren't foreshadowed or consistent with the world, when we know they were consciously hinted at -- that shows that claims that Velika wasn't foreshadowed are probably likewise wrong.Also, even if the authors didn't subconsciously intend clues, as long as they fit, IMO that should be irrelevant, as in-story the authors don't even exist anyways, and everything "always was", as it were.

[toa kopaka4372]

Sorry bonesii, but I'm going to have to disagree on the Mata Nui robot part. :PThe story twist with Mata Nui being the Matoran Universe as well as a giant robot probably and the most foreshadowing in the series, from Day One,

See what I'm saying? Not that these examples I give were NOT foreshadowed, but that it's too easy for claims of negative absolutes -- "not foreshadowed" to simply be wrong. Plus, how do you draw the line on what counts as foreshadowing or not? Is it merely what the author consciously intends? I say no. Anything in previous story that could, even subconsciously, open up the possibility of the twist, or the likelihood, can be counted as potential foreshadowing. Even if the authors didn't consciously intend it (because the subconscious can be quite mysterious on such things).In other words, the fact that some people claimed things like the giant robot weren't foreshadowed or consistent with the world, when we know they were consciously hinted at -- that shows that claims that Velika wasn't foreshadowed are probably likewise wrong.Also, even if the authors didn't subconsciously intend clues, as long as they fit, IMO that should be irrelevant, as in-story the authors don't even exist anyways, and everything "always was", as it were.

I agree with all you said, this part especially. If something that you already put in the story could work as a clue for a twist you come up with much later there shouldn't be a problem. I don't think Velika being the GB was planned from the moment of his creation, but it doesn't matter since him being a GB makes so much sense.A plus was that his name meant "Great" in a different language, which I think some people saw as evidence for his true identity. Doesn't matter if it was a conscious clue, it worked as a hint anyways.I'll stop here since I feel like I'm just echoing what you already said.

[bonesiii]

Spoiler tags no longer needed for the latest spoiler here. It was minor enough I'm just counting it by the two-day rule from the moment it was revealed.[updated post with all Velika book quotes.]So, for several days I've been trying to make time for this little project -- to try to compile Velika quotes and other related quotes from 2006 sources, so we can get a clearer idea of how his original portrayal can fit with him being a GB in general and the other reveals about him. For convenience, actual quotes from Velika are in bold; everything else is descriptions of things he does or the like.We start hearing about him in Legends #1: Island of Doom. Interesting, just skimming the opening chapters, Velika is not playing any mentioned active role when the Piraka first show up and pretend to be a Toa. There is no confirmation whatsoever that he is fooled by their act as far as I have found. Only once Dalu and others become convinced the Piraka are evil in some way is he introduced:

Life had changed on Voya Nui, and Garan was not at all sure what to make of it.In the days since... [the Piraka] had arrived, they had transformed the island to their liking with the help of the Matoran.

It then lists what teams of Matoran had been assigned to what. Dalu & Kazi to drilling holes in the volcano, Piruk & Balta to digging reservoirs to collect the lava, and a mention of Garan's thoughts of how seemingly irrelevant to helping the Matoran this was.

The strangest project of all was Velika's. His group of Matoran had been put to work building a massive structure in the center of the island under the supervision of Toa Avak. They had already beeninformed that, once it was completed, no Matoran would ever be allowed to enter.

I'm pretty sure this was the Piraka fortress. Interesting to note that in the last-posted chapter of TPTB, we have Velika apparently using his knowledge of building to demolish a different fortress, heh.Anyways, Velika does not appear (unless I skimmed too much ) to be introduced in-story previous to this, but there's a page at the start listing the major characters of both Mata Nui and Voya Nui, and Velika is included merely as "Po-Matoran inventor." I'm guessing the reader is here meant to recall that.Moving on...Garan again comments on how the "Toa" aren't doing what they claimed and helping the Matoran. Hakann engages in more pointless destruction. Next (of the scenes on Voya Nui) Avak is constructing Zamor launchers.

He glanced to the west. The Matoran had already finished building the stronghold....Avak turned back to his work just in time to see a Matoran scurrying away. He thought it might be Velika, although he really couldn't be bothere to keep their names straight. What was the Matoran up to? Spying?That would present a problem. If he told Zaktan the Matoran were getting suspicious, the Piraka leader would want them all eliminated. That would mean no labor force, and therefore a lot more work for the Piraka.No, better I should just handle this myself, he decided. Maybe a quick swim in the lava will teach our curious friend to mind his own business.Avak rose and started after the Matoran, trying to decide whether "medium" would be enough to teach Velika his mistake, or if he should go right for "well done." He never saw Garan and Kazi emerge from the rocks, grab the tool he had just completed, and run off with it.The rebellion had begun.

Interesting. I think we can assume this was indeed Velika; that Avak catches the color brown, and there were six in the Resistance. Although at this point there may have been more, since the antidermis wasn't yet being used apparently. Anywho, assuming it's Velika, here we have him spying, lol.Although it's clearly in conspiracy with the other Matoran, rather than a GB spying type thing, it still could serve double purpose for Velika. He knows first a major strategy the Piraka are doing. And this also provides strong evidence against the idea some floated that Velika didn't seem to put up resistance to the Piraka (which some took to argue against him being a GB, although we don't really know how much the GB would want to interfere) -- in fact, he made the first move (assuming it's him) that started the active resisting.

"What is it?" Kazi asked.Velika and Balta carefully examined the tool stolen from Avak. It was obviously meant to be carried or perhaps latched on to the arm. Balta had already identified what looked like a lauching apparatus, but there did not seem to be anything to shoot."I don't think this is for building, or to help us find water," said Garan."What if they find out we took it?" Piruk asked, anxiously. He was in no hurry to run into Zaktan again."Dalu is outside watching the approach to the cave," Balta assured him. "If she sees one of them coming, she will let us know." He turned to Velika. "What do you think?""When the Kanohi dragon roars, do not look for the stone rat," the Po-Matoran replied. The others waited for him to explain just what that saying meant, but Velika added nothing."I hate it when he does that," said Kazi."It's obvious," said Garan impatiently. "If you hear one Rahi, don't expect a different one to appear. If the signs all point one way, then don't expect the truth to be something else.""Oh. That clears everything up," Kazi said sarcastically."It's not a tool, not like the kind we use," Garan explained. "It's a weapon. The question is: What do they need it for? Who is there to fight?"Balta hesitated a moment, before saying quietly, "Us?""But.... but they're Toa!" Piruk insisted."Are they?" asked Garan. "I'm not so sure. Not sure at all."

So, my earlier theory that Velika as GB (trying to keep things fitting planned parameters) may have played a major role in getting the proverbial gears of their brains working towards realizing the Piraka are evil seems plausible. Even while staring at an obvious weapon, the others are so eager for there to be Toa, they don't believe their own eyes. Yet, the riddle cleverly puts the credit for forming this idea into the one who interprets it -- Garan, the leader -- rather than on Velika.So Velika comes away seeming to play a minor role. This fits the idea of GB who must balance both guiding events and yet avoiding attracting attention perfectly.Avak fights Dalu, the others debate what to do about this, and meanwhile Velika is not mentioned (again fitting the idea that he tries to interfere as little as possible).Avak & Hakann then go to Zaktan and report the incident:

"You were not summoned!" [Zaktan] hissed."The Matoran are getting restless," Hakann replied.... [insults Zaktan lol]"One of the zamor launchers was stolen," Avak broke in.... [Hakann insults Avak lolzerz] "Zaktan, this plan is not going to work. And if they catch on, we will have hundreds of angry Matoran swarming all around..."

And it all falls apart from there, as they state what they really are, with Piruk secretly listening in. Interestingly, while Garan probably ordered Velika to do it, it's Velika that removes the one weak brick that starts this whole proverbial wall falling down, both by setting off the Piraka and by clueing in the Matoran.Who knows but that Velika suggested the idea to Garan? :shrugs:Next Avak & Hakann fake the monster of lava that they "save" the Matoran from, and promise a substance to "ease their burdens." This may have been planned originally or be an adaptation to the Resistance (possibly to Velika's interfering). Garan & Balta secretly watch, and narrator in Balta's thoughts mentions that Velika was keeping watch over Dalu who was slowly recovering from Avak's attack. Then as A&H leave, G&B overhear them admit the monster was faked.

Dalu stirred and opened her eyes.... Her friends looked down at her with concerned eyes."See?" Garan said to Balta, quietly. "I told you she would be all right.""There is nothing funny about a Muaka at midnight," Velika said, as if imparting the wisdom of the ages."Okay, now that one just made no sense at all.""He's trying to say she scared us," Garan said. He turned back to Dalu. "And you did. Which one was it?""Avak," she replied, struggling to sit up. "I had to, or he would have found you.""You definitely did the right thing," Garan assured her."You did the brave thing," Balta added."Of what use is the roof against the rains," said Velika, "if there are no walls to stem the flood?""That does it," Kazi snapped, starting for the cave outh. "If anyone wants me, I'll be back at the village where they don't speak in riddles.""He has a point," said Balta."On top of his head," Kazi replied."Dalu's sacrifice means nothing if we don't stop them from doing... whatever it is they are here to do," said Balta. "And I, for one, don't intend to allow what she did to go to waste. How about you?"

Once again, Velika's riddle plus Kazi's distaste of it activates someone else to take up the argument, this time Balta, putting the other person as the one who seems to make the point. The others, especially Kazi, probably feel somewhat that Velika was just coming up with riddles for the sake of it, and that his words could be interpreted however desired, but he doesn't disagree with either Garan's or Balta's interpretations. I bet he is intentionally using Kazi as a shield of sorts; helping to give that idea, that his words aren't really intended to mean anything in particular, so his role in spurring these decisions on becomes harder to notice.And yet again, Velika's action here redirects their conversation towards action.Next is the confrontation with Dezalk which begins to clue them into the effects of antidermis. Once again the Resistance ponders what the lava draining could possibly be for.

Garan shrugged....He looked at Velika. The Po-Matoran had a way of looking at the world from his own strange viewpoint, sometimes seeing truths that the others missed. Velika was watching the activities with his head cocked slightly to one side, as if listening to a voice only he could hear. When he noticed Garan looking at him, he nodded and smiled."He who would empty a lake of fire must have a long spoon," he said.Well, of course, thought Garan. You couldn't get too close, so you needed a tool that let you remain at a distance -- that is what the Matoran are, in this case. It only made sense if you wanted to empty --"That's it!" Garan said....

Then he gets the idea that they're after something inside the volcano -- and they witness a Matoran fall in and die. Yet again, Velika uses the same strategy. Garan appears to be the one who thought of it.

"We have three choices," said Garan. "[Run, hide, or:] fight, and probably die... if we don't wind up slaves like our friends.""The rest of you can do what you want," said Dalu. "I'm fighting.""Me, too," said Balta. "We haven't survived here this long to just give up.""The movement of a single pebble can bring down a storm of rock," Velika said, smiling.Kazi nodded. "Even I get that one. And I'm with them."

Ironically Velika has just blatantly described the process I've been noticing that he's been using, lol. Now knowing what we know about him (neverminding that it's a retcon), we can ask, is he describing what will happen from this point on? Or is he saying, "I'm glad the pebble I moved earlier has led to this storm of rock, and yet I'll say it with a riddle so you don't quite catch that meaning, hee hee hee"? :PIt's interesting. Garan, his strategy moved the most times, possibly including a theorized suggestion by Velika of the strategy of stealing the launcher. Stealing that set up Dalu to need to fight a Piraka in defense of the others, and she's the second to say this. Balta was the other one the riddle strategy earlier moved, inspired by Dalu's bravery, and Kazi can now feel ready to join in after Velika gives a riddle with a much more obvious meaning, producing a positive emotional reaction.After this, Piruk is asked, and he nervously eventually decides yes. It's interesting that he is the least sure (although that's consistent with his personality anyways), and he's also the one that had some of the most important encounters with and spying on Piraka earlier without Velika being involved to influence him.In the next scene, the Resistance actually triggers a landslide, turning Velika's metaphor literal. Garan appears to have planned it, and the last comment he makes is:

"...We'll see if Velika was right about that pebble."

So Velika's strategy pays off yet again, this time in actually suggesting a course of action.It really does seem, in retrospect, that Velika may be puppeteering nearly all the major events in this story on the Resistance's part. :)Next, just after this attack, the Toa Nuva show up and fight the Piraka. Interesting timing; I wonder if it's plausible that Velika could have known they were coming at that time and tried to even the playing field for them. But this may be too much of a stretch.Island of Doom ends with the Piraka having defeated the Toa Nuva, with no further mention of the Resistance.Dark DestinySo, the Nuva were thwomped by the Piraka, and Balta had (earlier) stolen another launcher, this one with an antidermis Zamor in it. He ran off and hasn't been seen from. Jaller & company are setting out from Metru Nui.

Dalu spotted the Toa Nuva first. “Strangers,” she said. “there, in those rocks ahead. Not Matoran... not Piraka. Toa, maybe?”A rumble of thunder rolled through the sky, followed by bright flashes of lightning. The storm had been building in intensity for days. Clouds blotted out the sun and the stars, all save one. For some unexplained reason, a lone red star managed to shine even through the thickest, blackest of storm clouds. Even more bizarre, the Onu-Matoran could have sworn the lightning was actually coming from the star itself.”What do you think, Velika?” Garan asked, turning to the Po-Matoran.“It is said that there was once a Rahi who looked up at the stars and believed them to be food belonging to a larger creature,” Velika answered softly. “Each night, he would climb the tallest mountain and jump as high as he could, hoping to snatch a star for himself. Finally, he decided it could not be done, and more, that they were not food at all.”“Is there a point, and can you get to it?” grumbled Kazi...“All proceeded as it must,” continued the Po-Matoran. “Until the night the Rahi saw the great red star. That, he decided, must be a wonderful, delicious piece of fruit dangling from some far-off tree. So he climbed the mountain again, and this time he got a running start and jumped with all his might.”Kazi frowned. It was bad enough when Velika got started on one of these stories. It was worse when Kazi got drawn into them and had to find out the end. “So what happened?”Velika started, as if suddenly remembering that the story had to have an ending. “Oh, what happened? What happened, let's see... oh, yes, he went off the cliff and broke every bone in his body.”

Mkay, just gotta pause there. Oy.We could easily read way too much into this in light of the revelation of Velika being a Great Being, but it's interesting how well this fits metaphorically with the RS reveal. Keeping in mind that it's common for Velika to use animals metaphorically to mean people, if as a GB he does know what the RS does, then he could be early on planting a hint here – “the guy died and went to the RS after all.”And whether or not that could apply now, I would add this to the list of evidence that Greg had planned that and was trying to associate the RS with death in our minds, but anyways, for another topic...Who knows what Velika GB might really be intending with this story – the way he almost forgot to give it an end may suggest something. But at the time, its purpose is not about the Red Star but about the Toa Nuba – at least how the others take it.

[Kazi counts to himself in frustration to avoid temper.]“Even I am not sure what that one means,” admitted Piruk.“The Rahi fooled himself once, and found only frustration,” explained Garan. “But when he fooled himself twice... that was far worse.”“He's saying they're not Toa,” said Dalu.Garan shook his head. “He's saying we can't take the chance of being wrong again. If they are Toa, we will apologize later, when they recover. For now, ready your weapons – we attack.”

So now, if Velika knew very well what the Nuva were, what could his motive be in this? Is he counting on the Nuva to do what Onua does – throw down weapons and plead their case, demonstrating they really are Toa? Obviously, Garan isn't saying he'll kill them, so it may not matter. Maybe Velika just wants them to meet up, and sees this as the most likely way to make it happen.Or, depending on what his limits are, he might not know what they are and the obvious meaning of this remains intact. :shrugs:For many pages nothing much happens on VN; it's mostly Jaller's group. Then the Nuva & Resistance attack the fortress, which fails. Then Jaller's group arrives and is transformed by the lightning into the Inika. Velika is not mentioned that I saw.Next is Power Play.Garan is almost killed, via lava. The others get to him. Velika is mentioned as one helping save him. Nothing much there. They run. Dalu is missing; they wonder where she is, and say they need to find the Toa. Piruk says it's hopeless.

Velika smiled. “There once was a Matoran who was stricken with thirst. He left his shelter to seek out his water bucket, but when he found it, it was dry. Puzzled, he listed it up and discovered a hole in the bottom had let the water leak out. Angry that his thirst could not now be quenched, he cursed the bucket, cursed the island, and cursed his need for water. So frustrated was he that he never noticed water had begun to fall from the sky.”There was a long silence. Finally, Kazi sank his head into his hands and said, “I know I am going to regret asking this... but what does that mean?”“It means don't get so caught up in looking for salvation from one direction that you miss seeing it coming from another,” said Garan. “The Toa Nuva may be captured, or they may be dead. But six new stars appeared in the sky – and six new Toa walk this island.”

They then go on to debate whether the Inika will do any better. I wonder if Velika might actually mean that the lightning from the RS Toa-ized them, not just the appearance of the six Toa Stars. Of course, he may know what Toa Stars mean in this case, and extrapolate from there. But it's interesting that previously he encouraged them not to look to the Nuva for help, yet here he IS encouraging them to look to the Inika.And Velika now is worrying about established parameters. The Nuva weren't destined to help on Voya Nui, but the Inika were. Interesting how that fits.Velika is paraphrased in narration here, which I'll bold too.

Jaller hefted the launcher in his left hand, appreciating the lightweight feel and the efficiency of design. Velika had handed them out to all the Toa Inika before they departed the Matoran refuge. He had made some comment about flames being the surest way to stop a fire, which made no sense to Jaller at all. ...Velika had assured them that the ammunition in the launchers would be able to free the enslaved Matoran workers.[Jaller wonders what the Zamor are loaded with, etc.][Piruk says:] “...that building we were in is an old fortress built long before Voya Nui floated where it is now. We were securing underground entrances to it when Velika found this silvery pool. None of us knew what it was, but he insists it will free our friends from the effects of the zamor spheres. I snuck into the Piraka stronghold, stole some spheres, and Velika filled them up with the stuff...”

Interesting. I wonder if earlier Greg ever explained how Velika as Matoran could have known that. Just experimenting? Throw some antidermis in and see what happens?However, now knowing what we know, neverminding that it's a retcon, is it possible Velika was once again calling on special knowledge as a Great Being?And I hadn't caught before that there was an old fortress here. I wonder what relation that has to the Ignika, if any, the Matoran's old home, etc. But that's another matter... (I think... )

[Garan is being shot at by nektann; Garan suggests withdrawing.]...When [Kongu] was behind cover again, he turned to Garan and Velika. “And do what? Come back later when it's deep-asleep? It's a machine!”[Garan pauses, peeks at nektann, which fires, he barely ducks in time.] “I'm only suggesting that maybe your fears for your missing friends, the Toa Nuva, are blinding you to the real crisis on this island.”“That the Gukko birds of worry and care fly about your head, you cannot change,” Velika chimed in. “But that they build nests in your mask, you can prevent.”“You're worried about six Toa,” Garan continued, trying to be heard over the impacts of the blasts. “I have the whole Matoran population of this island to protect.”[They continue to debate. Nuparu flies by.]“You're the Toa of Earth!” Kongu shouted back. “Throw dirt at them or something!”“The bird soars through the sky,” Velika muttered. “But if I were a colossus, and the sky was beneath my feet, could it truly be said the bird flew underground?”

Erm... I may be crazy, and this was almost certainly just Greg teasing us with a clue we missed rather than an in-story thing, but now, could this be Velika hinting that he knows about the giant robot? This situation could actually apply as Mata Nui was just taking off or just about to land. You wouldn't normally think of a colossus' feet being above the sky. Fascinating.I'm wondering if Greg always intended Velika to know way more about these big mysteries than it would seem he should, even without planning him to be a GB. These just keep on hitting the ball out of the park in terms of matching up with the 'retcon'.

Before Jaller could ask just what the Po-Matoran was talking about, Garan was yelling at Nuparu. “Down! Go down!” the Matoran said.Nuparu obligingly went into a dive, firing his blaster drill as he went. The power of the weapon bore a hole in the ground beneath him. The nektann tried in vain to target the flying Toa, but couldn't compensate for his speed. An instant later, he had vanished underground.“What just happened?” asked Kongu.“Velika looks at things from a unique angle,” said Garan. “He was suggesting a flying Toa of Earth might be well served by doing the same thing.”[Nuparu burrows under and destroys the nektann.]“Armored all over,” he said, “except at the bottom. One shot from below, and boom. I should have figured that out myself.”Velika smiled proudly and patted Toa Nuparu on the arm. For a moment, they weren't a Toa and a Matoran, but simply two inventors sharing a moment of accomplishment.[the nektann starts regenerating, they head for the stronghold]The Toa of Air unlimbered his crossbow in one smooth motion and fired. A bolt of energy pierced the lock as if it weren't there. The massive door swung open. Velika immediately began examining Kongu's weapon, muttering to himself in wonderment. Garan finally had to pull the diminutive tinkerer away.[They go in, and see wall carvings with the words Vezok and Vezon, mention the latter means double, and are puzzled.]By reflex, everyone turned to look at Velika. But the Po-Matoran just shrugged his shoulders.

Interesting, eh? They have just started to actually notice that he's the one who has the important wisdom, and it's at that moment that he apparently doesn't know the answer. It could fit with the idea that he's the GB trying to blend in; if he appeared too knowledgeable, he might get unwanted attention from the wrong folks. But of course the straightforward meaning may be the case; he may simply not know about Vezon.Next they find the Nuva's masks, fear the worst, continue and run into Brutaka & the Piraka. Battle, etc. Hakann & Thok steal Brutaka's power and go all Muahahaha. There seems to be no mention of what happened to the Matoran until a Garan POV that says they're moving through corriders, apparently having left the battle zone.

”I don't like this,” said Dalu. “We should be back there fighting for our people.”“There were once two little lava rats who wished to cross a great chasm,” replied Velika. “All day and all night, one carried small sticks and pebbles to the hole and dropped them in. He hoped that someday the hole would be filled. His brother rat, being the wiser, wandered the barrens until he found a Kikanalo. Sympathizing with the plight of the rats, the Kikanalo used his great strength to knock down a tree, making a bridge over the chasm across which the rats could travel.”“Um, yeah,” said Piruk. “What he said.”“Good old Velika,” commented Kazi. “Never use two words when 127 will do.”

It's actually 87. Anywho, the meaning here is obvious, but the thinking may apply to the situation with the murders. He's taking out powerful wildcards, but who is he leaving? Perhaps several “Kikanalo” who he may be able to convince to sympathize with his plight and help him.It's also interesting along the lines of his “when a pebble will do” comment and the fact that he chose a Matoran body, not a Toa or other powerful being. Several times he has voiced a philosophy that small things/beings are not limited to only small accomplishments if they are strategic about it and choose the time and place to act wisely. It seems like this is something that means a lot to him, as if he might despise the idea of taking a powerful form, just because he honestly believes he is clever enough that a mere Matoran form will always suffice for his purposes.They find a carving that claims the fallen village (Mahri Nui) still exists. Back to the Toa with battle aftermath & Axonn, who gives the Toa the special Zamor that later is used to win the battle for the mask. Hakann & Thok continue Muahahahaing. Etc. Etc. blah blah blah... Brief teaser of Vezon, and book over.Next is Inferno.Begins with the two Great Beings hiding the Ignika in the distant past. 777 stairs. Irnakk spooky. Etc.Garan & co. are still wandering the halls of that stronghold. Does this place have no end?

“We should go back,” said Dalu. “This fight is for our freedom. We should be part of it.”[Garan reminds her they're looking for the Nuva.]“But why look here? They could have the Nuva hidden anywhere on the island!”Velika chuckled. “When you fear the Muaka, it is best to keep him in sight.”[balta agrees & they continue.]

That's twice during this hall-wandering adventure Velika acts to keep Dalu focused and from going back to a vain battle. I bet the long tale of the first one may have been partially to buy time and wear her out. This time he doesn't bother to again argue against the same argument; Garan handles that, but he does deal with the remainder of the argument with a quick line, giving her a reason to want to keep on the current task.And this line again could be relevant to the serial. In his thoughts he briefly mentions that Kopaka & Pohatu had vanished, and reassures himself they would show up again. Although he doesn't seem overly worried, you could argue he is aware that it would be better if they hadn't vanished.Of course, I also theorized his plan set them up for that by killing TK near Gaardus, and only when they were nearing Gaardus, on purpose, so yeah.Also might apply to the whole strategy. Although killing off wildcards is not about keeping them in sight, obviously, it does fit with the idea that you don't let the Muaka roam free out of your sight.Alright, here's an interesting section, when they find the Nuva. It begins with reference to Velika (this chapter) as if it would be the very first Velika POV ever, but skimming ahead as I type, doesn't appear we get any thoughts from him, but rather it's a Balta POV I guess.

Velika stood before the doorway to a narrow passage leading downward. He looked puzzled. “The mountain can be shaped by rain and wind... but can the mountain shape itself by drive and will?”“Will someone please tell him to stop that?” muttered Kazi.Balta went to stand beside the Po-Matoran. “No, he's found something. Remember, Velika oversaw the team of Matoran who built this fortress for the Piraka. He knows every corner of it. If he says this wasn't here before, then it wasn't. The Piraka must have carved out a lower level.”

They go down, and find the Nuva. Piruk & Velika break the chains.Incidentally, at the same time the Inika are passing through the Chamber of Death, with “dark red” lightstones. My very early theory that Velika could have actually manned this device in real-time is debunked; he's in the fortress with the Nuva now. It's worth noting the method of death apparently entirely dissolves Matoro, plus his mask, so the theory that physically disintegrated beings can't be revived may be debunked too...The story draws to conclusion, and the Nuva & Resistance leave the fortress. They meet up with the Inika & Axonn and story ends with no further mention of Velika. Thatathatathat's all folks!BTW, did Velika have any speaking roles in the VNOG? Though non-canon, that might be interesting to look into if anyone's up to it. I'm confining this to just the books. [According to BS01's VNOG page, Velika is in Chapters 2 & 5. There are cheat codes to jump chapters, so that would be a quick way to get to him.] Edited September 25, 2012 by bonesiii

[Alyska]

And I'm a bit late to all this, but I would like to put in my two cents' worth on the choice of the Great Being: to be perfectly honest, it does seem a bit like it was pulled out of nowhere. There was no foreshadowing, no mention of Velika or any other Voya Nui Matoran earlier in the serials- we hadn't heard anything from him in six years. I think in any mystery, there should always be clues to follow, even if they are ridiculously difficult

Like I said before, there was plenty of foreshadowing, whether originally intended for this or not; it fits perfectly (which is why the majority of people following the 'who is it' topics had come to agree it was Velika. ) All in 2006 at that, plus in 2001 we knew of Great Beings and most people assumed they were all watching things actively. And this flows naturally out of the learning that this life is artificial -- made by the GBs.Also, what other twists have had more foreshadowing? This idea of criticizing a twist for this reason appears to be completely new to this instance, and I must wonder why? It seems like it's basically just because this came after the end of the main plot.

Fair enough- I suppose if you look at the entire Bionicle canon as a single story in its own right, there would be plenty of room for the interpretation for some of Velika's behaviour as being suited to a disguised GB. I was looking more at the serials as being individual stories in their own right- neither TYQ or TPTB (or any other serial set in the main universe) had any mention of Velika in them, so what I meant was that he was possibly a bit too far removed from these particular stories for them to play out as a "fair play whodunnit."In fact, this is probably a personal pet peeve more than anything else, but I've often found that the serials don't function independently as much as I would have liked.While the individual chapters are well-written, many of the serials feel more like fragments than actual whole, coherent stories in their own right (Reign of Shadows in particular struggled with this). Maybe that was the intention all along, so this could just be a matter of it not happening to match my personal tastes rather than an actual flaw, but I do think that this approach may have been a factor in Bionicle's demise. If the story had been broken down into coherent chunks that could be enjoyed and understood by newcomers (but still forming a part of an overarching arc) it might have been more appealing to the target audience. Edited September 25, 2012 by Alyska

[MaksDudekVA]

You see, that's why we have a story overview on bioniclestory.com, so newcomers can be introduced to what's been going on.

[bonesiii]

In case anyone didn't see my edit, my previous post now has all the Velika book quotes.

Fair enough- I suppose if you look at the entire Bionicle canon as a single story in its own right, there would be plenty of room for the interpretation for some of Velika's behaviour as being suited to a disguised GB. I was looking more at the serials as being individual stories in their own right- neither TYQ or TPTB (or any other serial set in the main universe) had any mention of Velika in them, so what I meant was that he was possibly a bit too far removed from these particular stories for them to play out as a "fair play whodunnit."

Actually that was my argument in the original contest topic, and largely why I picked Onua. But he and the other in-serial candidates were largely ruled out later, so it became clear the serial wasn't following that rule. I would agree that would be good, and about what you said of the serials in general. They didn't function like Greg's books, which were coherent units, and that could get really confusing sometimes.Of course, once you accept that Greg sees the entire Bionicle storyline as a continuum, and you're supposed to be aware of all of it to follow part of it well, kinda like LOST, the Velika thing works fine IMO. I still do wish each serial was a little more self-contained, but then I would argue that TPTB actually is. Having just re-read it, everything you need to know about it in terms of events so far is clearly introduced in it.

[CarkaJack]

“There were once two little lava rats who wished to cross a great chasm,” replied Velika. “All day and all night, one carried small sticks and pebbles to the hole and dropped them in. He hoped that someday the hole would be filled. His brother rat, being the wiser, wandered the barrens until he found a Kikanalo. Sympathizing with the plight of the rats, the Kikanalo used his great strength to knock down a tree, making a bridge over the chasm across which the rats could travel.”

Now, could this 'Wiser Rat' in the story be Velika himself? And could the brother who placed sticks in stones into the chasm be Angonce?If so, it could basicly be saying that Velika is annoyed by the fact that all the other BGs build giant robots and hunter destroyer thingies to accomplish straight-forward tasks. I could just be looking too far into this, though.

[bonesiii]

“There were once two little lava rats who wished to cross a great chasm,” replied Velika. “All day and all night, one carried small sticks and pebbles to the hole and dropped them in. He hoped that someday the hole would be filled. His brother rat, being the wiser, wandered the barrens until he found a Kikanalo. Sympathizing with the plight of the rats, the Kikanalo used his great strength to knock down a tree, making a bridge over the chasm across which the rats could travel.”

Now, could this 'Wiser Rat' in the story be Velika himself? And could the brother who placed sticks in stones into the chasm be Angonce?If so, it could basicly be saying that Velika is annoyed by the fact that all the other BGs build giant robots and hunter destroyer thingies to accomplish straight-forward tasks. I could just be looking too far into this, though.

I definitely think that no matter what, the wiser rat is Velika. Even in the plain meaning that's clear (that is, he would be advising the whole Resistance group to act as the wiser rat did).And your idea makes a lot of sense. On the other hand, the wiser rat recruits a powerful being to help... but one that is pre-existing, granted, not built. The giant robot could arguably fit with the Kikanalo. :shrugs:Yanno, here's a theory to run with your idea in a slightly different way. The context of the first rat's action is Dalu wanting to fight an enemy herself. The GBs have gone off on their own and stopped paying attention to the giant robot. They may be trying to deal with some other threat elsewhere (which future Bionicle lines could have / could return to have sets of, etc.) more on their own, while Velika may have in mind stopping the same threat by re-using non-wildcard MU beings as Kikanalo. The others might not have thought of re-using any of them, assuming they would only be capable of what they were programmed to do or would be threats (as seen with Marendar).But Velika going into the MU to watch could be comparable to wandering in the barrens, looking for Kikanalo?Hm... Is the giant robot power source in the big robot still capable of functioning? Is it ruled out that it might be transferable to the smaller robot? So it could be powered up again and used?Like... as a giant Kikanalo? Edited September 26, 2012 by bonesiii

[The Iron Toa]

Hm... Is the giant robot power source in the big robot still capable of functioning? Is it ruled out that it might be transferable to the smaller robot? So it could be powered up again and used?

You're probably not talking about what I think you are, but if you're talking about the Great Spirit Robot and the Prototype Robot, remember the Prototype Robot disintegrated. Also, it used a different kind of power source than the Great Spirit Robot, one that was unstable and led to its destruction.But I don't think you would have forgotten that, so I probably misunderstood you.

[bonesiii]

Actually I did forget it disintegrated.Myth busted.

[fishers64]

Perhaps Velika is actually using real Kikanalo beasts, though. I think some of them survived the attacks by Onewa and Hakann, and they do move fast. (Plus the fact that Hakann busted some of them for fun would mean that Velika was familiar...)Not to mention have distegrator blasts that can blow Vahki away. That might push Karz into a canyon and disturb...living gelatin.

[dinoman82]

Oh, now that is an interessting revelation. Didn't see that coming hahaha. Glad that the Bionicle story is still updated a bit (even though it has been a great while). Does it perhaps mean that one day the serials will continue again?