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Making a Bionicle RPG rule system/stats

RPG gameplay stats system rule

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#41 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 17 2012 - 09:44 PM

Well, for certain abilities. This was more for Elemental powers, but maybe we should start with work on other powers. What do you suggest?
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#42 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Sep 18 2012 - 03:41 PM

I already came up with a system for Elemental Powers.

Duration should be nearly always unalterable, I think, as should Area. Anyway, how about this? Multiply the char's Will modifier by 2. This is xir variability, or the number of points of EE xe can add to a power's base cost. Intensity will usually be measured as 1dX x (EE cost)/2. I don't think we should have channeling more energy take more time; time is difficult to simulate in RPGs and makes things too complicated.

This could, in theory, be applied to Endurance Powers as well, but I think Endurance Powers should be more fixed. Your system that you came up with before the post with the equations was very good, and I don't think we need to make it any more complicated than that.

Edited by Toa Alaka, Sep 18 2012 - 03:43 PM.

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#43 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 18 2012 - 03:51 PM

Huh. All I thought I did with the equations was illustrate and clarify what I already posted.I forgot to add any sort of randomness into the system -- we'll want some of that. Am I correct in guessing you'd do a Saving Throw to avoid the effects of a power, and you'd rely on your Resistance to mitigate it if you did get hit?

Edited by The Iron Toa, Sep 18 2012 - 03:51 PM.

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#44 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Sep 20 2012 - 03:49 PM

I added randomness in the post I just quoted (1dX = 1 die with X sides). You're right about Saving Throws and Resistances. You know, we should also have Vulnerabilities for increased damage (opposite of Resistances and Immunities).I know I was kinda harsh about the equations. I just really think that most people wouldn't really want to process something that complicated.
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#45 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 20 2012 - 05:26 PM

Ok, my understanding was that there was a lot of math involved. I agree that we should simply it, though. But I thought the system I came up with gave a flexibility that allowed us to have far fewer 'spells'. Maybe we should work on something else first.
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#46 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Sep 20 2012 - 07:49 PM

There is a lot of math involved, but not nearly so much math as those equations. Again, I kind of feel like a ##### saying this. I'm sticking by my idea, though.I think my system also allows for far fewer "spells." :P (I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into the two of us batting Power ideas back and forth.) We can modify it, though.

Edited by Toa Alaka, Sep 20 2012 - 07:50 PM.

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#47 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 20 2012 - 08:15 PM

How about we forget about how Powers work for now and work on something else. I'm not ready to give up on all of my idea, but I believe you if you think it's too complicated, and if we argue over this we'll get nowhere.So, how about we talk skills? That sounds like something we should take time to brainstorm. Let's see... well, D&D seems to have a list we can adapt. We could replace Spellcraft with a powers-related skill, and have a mask-making part of the Craft skill.
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#48 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Sep 26 2012 - 04:44 PM

Yeah, you're right. Sorry for my absence, by the way. I'm kind of running out of steam for this project (hopefully that won't last forever).I'm not sure how much we need a Spellcraft skill. Let me get back to you on this in a few days.
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#49 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 26 2012 - 11:16 PM

I don't want to give up on this, but I know what you mean. I will try to think of something to get myself back on track and post it tomorrow.Okay, I thought of a couple things to ask about:So, how many vitality points would our characters have? Is a normal amount in the range of tens, hundreds, or thousands?Also, could we use endurance for stamina, so that it is affected by exertion like running and fighting, or will that be too complicated?The equivalent of spellcraft would be a character's skill using his powers. For example, Helyrx's would be very high as she's the oldest and longest-active Toa.How about we work on an example monster, let's say a Vohtarak. Here's my first idea:Chr 5Dex 10 (if Dex determines Rhotuka accuracy)Int 5Str 8Toughness 8Will 4Abilities/weapons:Mandibles - capable of doing both slashing and crushing damage, we can work out how muchHordika venom (we can work out diseases, long-term poisons, and mutations later, but this would be one such effect)Paralysis Rhotuka - Always one target, duration depends on how much power the Visorak puts into it and the victim's resistancePain Rhotuka - Directly harms endurance without doing Vitality damage, perhaps cause some sort of paralysis/stun that could be avoided by a saving throw.Berserker Charge - +Very high resistances for a short time, maybe 20 seconds or so of 90-something% resistances.Fire resistance, about as much as Ta-Matoran's I guess.I might be getting ahead of myself here, but I just thought it would help if we had an idea of what a monster's character sheet or whatever you call it would look like.

Edited by The Iron Toa, Sep 27 2012 - 05:18 PM.

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#50 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Sep 28 2012 - 04:24 PM

1) Normal Vitality range is somewhere from 5-10. Really huge creatures or tiny creatures would have more or less, respectively. Armor is much higher than Vitality, usually somewhere from 15-35.2) How about ordinary attacks require no endurance, but sprinting does? Special attacks (that are powers) would require Endurance.3) Sure, a Spellcraft-esque skill would be fine. In D&D, this is used for things like determining how accurately one throws a Sleep spell.4) Vohtarak:Chr 5Dex 10 (if Dex determines Rhotuka accuracy)Int 5Str 8 [This should be higher, I think.]Toughness 8 [As should this. Not by much, though. Or maybe we could make either Str or Tou higher but not both.]Will 4Abilities/weapons:Mandibles - capable of doing both slashing and crushing damage, we can work out how much [Slashing and crushing should be the same -- just normal damage]Hordika venom (we can work out diseases, long-term poisons, and mutations later, but this would be one such effect) [Yup.]Paralysis Rhotuka - Always one target, duration depends on how much power the Visorak puts into it and the victim's resistance [Very well. Let's say that a saving throw is made each time the target takes a turn. If the save is successful, the paralysis ends. However, the Difficulty Class (number you have to score above or at to save) is very high.]Pain Rhotuka - Directly harms endurance without doing Vitality damage, perhaps cause some sort of paralysis/stun that could be avoided by a saving throw. [No paralysis/stun since that's already covered by the above. Directly harms endurance is not what I would have thought of immediately, but it seems fine. Maybe also a temporary penalty to the Concentration (Will) skill?]Berserker Charge - +Very high resistances for a short time, maybe 20 seconds or so of 90-something% resistances. [Done when the Vohtarak moves, and it moves an extra space. Roll 4+ on 1d6 to recharge? NO TIME MEASUREMENTS. Effect lasts until the Vohtarak's next turn.)Fire resistance, about as much as Ta-Matoran's I guess. [Less than a Ta-Matoran's, I think. I feel like we should give Matoran pretty good resistances (but not really OP), since otherwise Matoran characters would get killed the instant they entered combat. Matoran are supposed to be hardy, after all.]
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#51 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 28 2012 - 07:04 PM

I think you're getting Vitality (our hitpoints) confused with the base attribute Toughness. Sprinting, maybe certain special power attacks could cost Endurance, that sounds good. If you think slashing/crushing/piercing should all be combined into physical damage, we can do that. But I was just thinking we could differentiate because different materials are more or or less resistant to different damage types. And our equivalent of Spellcraft (we need to come up with a name for that skill) doesn't just affect the accuracy of powers, but also their efficiency and finesse.Keep in mind Visorak attack in groups, and one decently skilled warrior of average stature should be able to handle at least a small group. How would Resistance give a bonus to Saving Throws? Lower the DC, or add a number to the roll? I like your idea that a Pain Rhotuka would debuff Will. Maybe other debuffs would apply too, like maybe you should need to make a roll for each action to take or something while under its effect. Berserker charge, well yeah, I should have added a motion component to that. I'm not sure what you meant by 'Roll 4+ on 1d6 to recharge? NO TIME MEASUREMENTS.'. Isn't combat time measured in rounds, so a higher roll and/or more Endurance expended could make it last more rounds? And less heat resistance than a Ta-Matoran's, got it.I didn't mention attacks like tackling, I'm not sure if that needed to be mentioned. But I definitely forgot about their webs. Could a character's entrapment in webs be represented by a sort of immobility that can be broken by a Strength check? Of course, the webs couldn't be used to entrap a victim that's not already immobilized, but the webs wouldn't wear off over time. And they can inject Hordika venom. Visorak can also climb on vertical or near-vertical surfaces, and use their webs to help them move around high places. So they get a big bonus to their Climb skill I guess.
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#52 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Sep 30 2012 - 12:39 AM

Here's my idea for it, using FATE, which is more of a framework to build any genre-specific system you can think of, instead of a full-fledged system. FATE is a bit like GURPS, but lets the players create the world along with the GM, and influence the story both in-character and out-of-character. Also, mechanics are a lot simpler. For example, Toa get less skills, but can have "elemental manipulation (<insert element here>)" as a skill, which no others have. They have an elemental energy bar, which depletes according to the amount their elemental manipulation check result exceeds the DC (or defense of the enemy). Players and the GM create a world, an island, a faction and an event at the first session.
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#53 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 30 2012 - 01:19 PM

Interesting. I'm sort of skimming it now. I don't quite get the skill pyramid, I'm not sure if I like that idea, but there are other things in it I do like. I was planning on having some sort of Destiny points. But I think most of us were basing it off a DnD system we're more familiar with, so we'll have to work out something that suits all of us. Perhaps we could borrow aspects from each system?
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#54 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Sep 30 2012 - 03:27 PM

I have a bit of experience with table-top RPGs, and I'm going to go through this thread in a bit and read it all, because I've been wanting a Bionicle RPG for years. My first comment though, would have to be to keep things as simple as possible. Too much complexity, and the players and GM will end up more in the rulebook than in the game world.I think a truly successful RPG would be one that sets guidelines and rules, but foregoes the equations. Force the players to use their imaginations. A really good example of this would be the Marvel Heroic Roleplaying Game that came out fairly recently. The game flows extremely well, and focuses mostly on what the players want their characters to do, yet still retains a solid rule system utilizing dice and stats.Be back later with more. Thanks for getting this started!EDIT: Ok, I got through everything. Sounds good, so far, I stick to my plan of simplification.For the whole powers thing, I think running a system that is based off of points would work best. Each "species" (or type or whatever) would have a different pool of powers to aquire as they got stronger, and the powers cost points to use in combat. You could increase the range, duration, power, etc, by spending more points. Running out of points could have some sort of negative effect, signifying the character being tired out or something to that effect. The only negative to this would be that it would probably involve some sort of math.The alternative would be to have a power pool similar to the one in Bioshock (what I'm playing currently, excuse the reference). Basically you'll have Fire Blast. Then you upgrade it to Fire Blast 2. It gets more powerful, it costs more points. I'm not sure which option is better.I like this FATE thing, because like I said, the simpler the better. Most players would rather get straight into the action than spend time doing equations and such. However, there does need to be structure. So I'd say borrow some of the elements from FATE to streamline the whole thing, but definitely keep the stats and powers and such.

Edited by makuta_icarax, Sep 30 2012 - 07:04 PM.

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#55 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Sep 30 2012 - 10:12 PM

I think we should make it so that you can put points (either EE or Endurance, maybe something else if you have a different power source, but usually Endurance) into a skill to boost the Intensity/Duration/Range/Area, like I described in the equations. But we could make a list of some simple 'template' or default 'spells' to make things easier. For example, consider a Toa of Fire creating a jet of flame to hit one target. There could be a trio of Jet of Flame powers, one beginner's one of average power, and two higher level ones, one that's less intense and uses less EE and one that's more intense and uses more, because skill allows beings to both draw upon more of their power and have a finer control over it. A player that wants to do the math could figure out how much EE he'd need to expend to make something in the middle. He could also calculate what it would take to make it an AoE, while a quicker (but less finely-controlled) way would be to just use a Sheet of Flame power.Powers that cause a debuff like Slow, Paralysis, etc, assuming they're single-target could have three variants - one putting most strength into duration, one putting most strength into intensity (to beat the target's resistance) and one with average duration and intensity. A player would always be free to come up with more ways to allocate his points, but he'd have an existing list of sub-powers for convenience.Does that sound better?

Edited by The Iron Toa, Sep 30 2012 - 10:15 PM.

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#56 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Sep 30 2012 - 11:42 PM

Interesting. I'm sort of skimming it now. I don't quite get the skill pyramid, I'm not sure if I like that idea, but there are other things in it I do like. I was planning on having some sort of Destiny points. But I think most of us were basing it off a DnD system we're more familiar with, so we'll have to work out something that suits all of us. Perhaps we could borrow aspects from each system?

Well, Destiny points could be integrated as FATE points, a staple of FATE. They allow you to take advantage of "aspects" (a person or entity's defining traits, written down on creation) and compel them, give yourself a bonus, etc. I once tried working it out with D&D, but the freeform nature of elemental manipulation could be expressed as a skill. A skill pyramid in FATE looks a bit like this:3. Elemental Manipulation (Earth)2. Fishing2. Persuasion1. Inttimidation1. Deception1. AcrobaticsEvery entry corresponds to a certain bonus to that skill.

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#57 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 07:05 AM

I think we should make it so that you can put points (either EE or Endurance, maybe something else if you have a different power source, but usually Endurance) into a skill to boost the Intensity/Duration/Range/Area, like I described in the equations. But we could make a list of some simple 'template' or default 'spells' to make things easier. For example, consider a Toa of Fire creating a jet of flame to hit one target. There could be a trio of Jet of Flame powers, one beginner's one of average power, and two higher level ones, one that's less intense and uses less EE and one that's more intense and uses more, because skill allows beings to both draw upon more of their power and have a finer control over it. A player that wants to do the math could figure out how much EE he'd need to expend to make something in the middle. He could also calculate what it would take to make it an AoE, while a quicker (but less finely-controlled) way would be to just use a Sheet of Flame power.Powers that cause a debuff like Slow, Paralysis, etc, assuming they're single-target could have three variants - one putting most strength into duration, one putting most strength into intensity (to beat the target's resistance) and one with average duration and intensity. A player would always be free to come up with more ways to allocate his points, but he'd have an existing list of sub-powers for convenience.Does that sound better?

Yeah, that's sounds like a good mix of both sides. That way the more hardcore players can finely tune their attacks whichever way they want, but the more casual ones (me haha) can have the subpowers for convenience.I had a question about combat actually- how much of combat will rely on elemental powers?Also, how do you plan to represent movement and positioning? Would you be using miniatures (not my preference)?

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#58 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 12:27 PM

Interesting. I'm sort of skimming it now. I don't quite get the skill pyramid, I'm not sure if I like that idea, but there are other things in it I do like. I was planning on having some sort of Destiny points. But I think most of us were basing it off a DnD system we're more familiar with, so we'll have to work out something that suits all of us. Perhaps we could borrow aspects from each system?

Well, Destiny points could be integrated as FATE points, a staple of FATE. They allow you to take advantage of "aspects" (a person or entity's defining traits, written down on creation) and compel them, give yourself a bonus, etc. I once tried working it out with D&D, but the freeform nature of elemental manipulation could be expressed as a skill. A skill pyramid in FATE looks a bit like this:3. Elemental Manipulation (Earth)2. Fishing2. Persuasion1. Inttimidation1. Deception1. AcrobaticsEvery entry corresponds to a certain bonus to that skill.

So you get a certain number of points to put into your skills each level, right? That sounds good. I think your Intelligence could modify the number of points you get to spend, at least for some skills. I still to get the others' opinions on how to base this on FATE though. I don't want to alienate anyone that's been helping me out so far.

Yeah, that's sounds like a good mix of both sides. That way the more hardcore players can finely tune their attacks whichever way they want, but the more casual ones (me haha) can have the subpowers for convenience.I had a question about combat actually- how much of combat will rely on elemental powers?Also, how do you plan to represent movement and positioning? Would you be using miniatures (not my preference)?

As to how much of combat depends on elemental powers, it depends on the setting and the characters. A game session featuring an army of Toa would feature a lot of elemental powers, and of those Toa, some would prefer physical combat and some would prefer to use their elements. But in some settings Toa and other EE users will be rare or not show up at all, and in some settings (like if we do a Bara Magna setting) there would be no or barely any special powers at all. Most powers will be drawn from Endurance, because most beings don't have elemental powers. Overall, then, in the Matoran Universe, I'd say powers should be used fairly commonly but not relied on exclusively. Toa run out of EE, using all your Endurance up will incapacitate you, and some enemies will be resistant to powers. As with other games, we want a balance between physical combat and 'magic'.As for positioning, it has to be something we can easily represent on an online forum. I'm afraid I don't have enough experience to answer how we'll handle positioning, and I haven't considered it yet. Maybe the others have an answer.

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#59 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 01:00 PM

I personally find miniatures too cumbersome to work with, and the role-playing sort of devolves into a war game... which is fine, but it isn't really an RPG. For an online forum, I suppose a relative distance rule set would work best. Do you want me to try and come up with one? You can revise it or totally ignore it if you want, maybe it could just provide inspiration.EDIT: Oh, and I like this "points into skills each level thing". It would be simple and flow well.

Edited by makuta_icarax, Oct 01 2012 - 01:02 PM.

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#60 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 01:58 PM

I agree that we shouldn't need miniatures to keep track of positions. We could certainly use your help if you think you could come up with a positioning system, or anything else. And I thought DnD had a skill points system too. If it doesn't, want does it use?
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#61 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 02:50 PM

Oh, well, it does, but it's considerably more complicated and involves you deriving bonuses from your stats, adding a bunch of stuff up, and keeping track of it over time... which in the heat of the RPG can get kind of difficult to do.
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#62 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 03:15 PM

Actually we were going to do something besides levels, I just remembered. I don't remember how it would work exactly, but your skills and stats could increase from your experiences.
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#63 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 03:21 PM

Hey, even better. That means no keeping track of XP, which is nice. And the GM doesn't have to worry about handing out XP and can focus more on handing out loot XD
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#64 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 03:47 PM

While I guess we wouldn't need to keep track of XP, and could instead have the GM grant the characters skill and stat increases, we need to set guidelines as to how to do that.
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#65 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 03:58 PM

Hmm yes, true. I'll take a look at a system for that too. I'll report back later, hopefully with some progress. The movement is going to be fairly simple, though.EDIT: Seeing as there isn't going to be a grid system for miniatures, I would say movement/placement doesn't exactly need to be precise. Measuring it in combat range is probably the best idea.In other words, someone could be:-Close range: Melee weapon range; within striking distance-Medium range: Distance weapon range; Melee weapons with a long reach (spears, javelins, etc.)-Long range: Distance weapons only; elemental powers may suffer a penalty, etc.A play-by-post system would probably benefit the most from this anyway, since it will then allow the fighting to focus more on actual skills and abilities and less on placement. This is obviously a very bare-bones outline, if one wanted they could add in additional ranges, but I think it would best to measure placement in relation to enemies.A suggestion I would have would be to have an "opportunity" system. That way there is a penalty for leaving close range with someone. Obviously, if someone is standing next to you, fighting you, and you try to disengage, they're going to take a swipe at you with their sword. This could also bring in the usage of Kanohi- a Mask of Speed or Intangibility could allow to ignore the opportunity or something like that.Maybe this doesn't make any sense... I'll be back tomorrow with more.

Edited by makuta_icarax, Oct 01 2012 - 09:20 PM.

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#66 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Oct 01 2012 - 11:44 PM

So you get a certain number of points to put into your skills each level, right? That sounds good. I think your Intelligence could modify the number of points you get to spend, at least for some skills. I still to get the others' opinions on how to base this on FATE though. I don't want to alienate anyone that's been helping me out so far.

It doesn't work like that. You have skills in slots in your pyramid based on your bonus, and you can move them around at the beginning of each setting, and since FATE doesn't use a leveling system and instead focuses on role-playing benefits or the changes of aspects, you don't get any skill points, you simply assign a fixed bonus to every skill. Also, FATE doesn't have statistics, only skills, stunts (its' equivalent of feats, although you get only two and make them yourself, such as, Program or I'll shoot!: Use your firearms skill instead of your programming skill) and stress tracks (kind of like bars, you can assign anything you want to them, health, mana, etc. and certain things, like attacks, deplete them. Health is depleted by attacks, and if it runs out, your character collapses or dies, mana is depleted by using spells, and if it runs out, your character cannot use magic.)

Edited by The Mask of Ice, Oct 01 2012 - 11:46 PM.

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#67 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 02:08 PM

I'm liking the sound of this FATE system quite a bit, actually. How does it handle combat?
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#68 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 02:41 PM

I'm liking the sound of this FATE system quite a bit, actually. How does it handle combat?

"Combat", both physical and social (debates, etc.) is handled as "conflicts" where combatants move between zones (which are defined according to the conflict's scale, for example, in one conflict it might consist of a building, while in another it might become a room). Everyone takes one action per turn. This action can be used to move between 2 adjacent zones (a skill check must be made to move more than one zone, in which case, upon expending any number of points on the skill check result to move, the moving combatant can take another action, with a roll result of the remaining points on the skill check result, also, some zones can cost multiple points of movement to cross, such as a tightrope), make an attack (melee attacks can reach those inside the same zone, ranged attacks have an optimum range, for example, a 9 mm gun has an OR of 1, which means it can be used to attack someone one zone away with a penalty of 0. Every zone closer or nearer to the shooter than 1 constitutes a cumulative -1 penalty). A maneuver can be made, which is making a skill check to place an aspect (the defining mechanic of FATE, aspects, the permanent ones define an entity in the game world, the temporary ones define any conditions on it. FATE points, of which all players get 5 at the beginning of a session, and of which the GM has an infinite amount, must be spent to take advantage of any aspect, and are given to whomever controls the entity of whose or which's aspect you are taking advantage of, or in other cases, such as to give yourself a bonus, to the referee. For example, for the Rahkshi you are fighting to be affected by the "burning" aspect you placed on it, you must give a FATE point to the Rahkshi's controller. He can refuse the FATE point and give you one, or take the FATE point and with it, the damage. If you are offering a FATE point to the GM, they usually must accept it to be fair.) on something or someone on the battlefield.If a conflict gets too repetitive (for a conflict must be constituted of varied and meaningful exchanges), the referee can elect to shorten it into a contest, basically, a competitive skill check in a particular skill between those with the highest bonuses in that skill from each competing party. The one with the highest result wins.For a more comprehensive description of the FATE core rules (which are really just a set of rules which won't work by themselves but can be easily developed into any genre-specific system), see: http://www.faterpg.com. This doesn't violate forum rules about linking, right?

Edited by The Mask of Ice, Oct 02 2012 - 02:44 PM.

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#69 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 03:15 PM

Yes. Yes, this I like. My main concern with indistinct movements was that it would sort of eliminate certain attacks- namely Area of Effect attacks. But this sort of takes care of that problem. I'm all for adapting this system, I think I'll give that a look-over and see what would work/what wouldn't for Bionicle. I'd assume we'd need to create rules for masks and such, but the main mechanics (movement, skills system, combat) would be basically laid out.
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#70 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 09:15 PM

Well we definitely want to distinguish between single target and AoE attacks, but I don't see why we'd have to get rid of that distinction anyway. But I don't understand what you mean about combatants moving across areas in debates.
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#71 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 10:04 PM

Oh, I meant for the AOE, it can be hard to precisely measure said area of effect if you don't have a map or something. This fixes that problem.Not so sure what you're asking about movement, but tomorrow I'm gonna start going through the FATE system and brainstorming. We may be on the edge of a breakthrough!EDIT: Had a question. Which system of FATE are we talking about here? 3.0 or 2.0?

Edited by makuta_icarax, Oct 02 2012 - 10:37 PM.

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#72 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 11:00 PM

Yes. Yes, this I like. My main concern with indistinct movements was that it would sort of eliminate certain attacks- namely Area of Effect attacks. But this sort of takes care of that problem. I'm all for adapting this system, I think I'll give that a look-over and see what would work/what wouldn't for Bionicle. I'd assume we'd need to create rules for masks and such, but the main mechanics (movement, skills system, combat) would be basically laid out.

Area effects could be: "Affects all creatures in X number of adjacent zones within Y distance". Toa could have only one stunt, which would be their mask power (using a skill for a special effect", for example: "Kakama: Can use Athletics skill to traverse up to 5 zones instantaneously without making a check, requires 1 elemental energy per zone traversed. Can also increase overland travel speed to 1000 mph, requiring 1 elemental energy each minute this is sustained")Should I make some sample PDFs?

Edited by The Mask of Ice, Oct 02 2012 - 11:07 PM.

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#73 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 11:05 PM

Ah, I get what you're saying about AoEs. Right, as long as the effects make sense, there's no reason to need to draw a graph for every such attack. But some mask powers should be more versatile than just granting one buff, for example the Kakama should boost attack speed and travel speed, and their use wouldn't take EE. Certain weapons, maybe masks too, could have their own power that needs to recharge, but use of Kanohi should drain endurance. In Dwellers in Darkness, Hewkii passed out from the strain of using his mask to hold up the Coliseum, so that's where I got that idea.
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#74 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Oct 02 2012 - 11:27 PM

Ah, I get what you're saying about AoEs. Right, as long as the effects make sense, there's no reason to need to draw a graph for every such attack. But some mask powers should be more versatile than just granting one buff, for example the Kakama should boost attack speed and travel speed, and their use wouldn't take EE. Certain weapons, maybe masks too, could have their own power that needs to recharge, but use of Kanohi should drain endurance. In Dwellers in Darkness, Hewkii passed out from the strain of using his mask to hold up the Coliseum, so that's where I got that idea.

So it should drain HP? That sounds good. So how about this for an effect: "Make an Athletics check to move between zones, taking the maximum result on the dice (+4). Any points left over can be used for attacks as normal. This costs 1 HP per zone moved into, and does not provoke opportunity attacks. You can also increase your overland travel speed on foot to 1000 mph. This consumes 1 HP for every minute it is active. In addition, you can use your Athletics skill in place of your Close Combat skill."There could be an "equipment" box on the character sheet, where all weapon effects are written. No characters can have special weapons at the beginning of a game, but the GM can give them out later on.

EDIT: Had a question. Which system of FATE are we talking about here? 3.0 or 2.0?

3.0. I think I first played FATE on an indie-homebrew cyberpunk system.

Well we definitely want to distinguish between single target and AoE attacks, but I don't see why we'd have to get rid of that distinction anyway. But I don't understand what you mean about combatants moving across areas in debates.

I think I once played a game like that. The chars were interrogating a prisoner, the interrogation represented as 3 zones: Dead, Alive, Talking. If we depleted his cool track (the "keeping your wits about you track", used mostly in combat instead of HP, since combat in 2040 is usually instantly lethal) while he was in any zone, the appropriate effect would happen (in "dead" that would kill him, in "alive" he would refuse to talk and in "talking", he would finally confess and we would win) . Moving to a zone required no action, but you could make an interaction skill check to move the prisoner with you.

Edited by The Mask of Ice, Oct 02 2012 - 11:19 PM.

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#75 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 03 2012 - 08:31 AM

I think I once played a game like that. The chars were interrogating a prisoner, the interrogation represented as 3 zones: Dead, Alive, Talking. If we depleted his cool track (the "keeping your wits about you track", used mostly in combat instead of HP, since combat in 2040 is usually instantly lethal) while he was in any zone, the appropriate effect would happen (in "dead" that would kill him, in "alive" he would refuse to talk and in "talking", he would finally confess and we would win) . Moving to a zone required no action, but you could make an interaction skill check to move the prisoner with you.

Yeah, I played a game like that, too, but the tracks were called "stress" tracks, and there was mental and physical stress. The further along on the track you got, you started to suffer negative effects. Far enough down and you would pass out/die.I support that as the effect of the Kakama. Obviously this will require playtesting eventually to make sure there isn't a ridiculously overpowered mask or whatever. But that sounds good to me!

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#76 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Oct 03 2012 - 08:45 AM

I think I once played a game like that. The chars were interrogating a prisoner, the interrogation represented as 3 zones: Dead, Alive, Talking. If we depleted his cool track (the "keeping your wits about you track", used mostly in combat instead of HP, since combat in 2040 is usually instantly lethal) while he was in any zone, the appropriate effect would happen (in "dead" that would kill him, in "alive" he would refuse to talk and in "talking", he would finally confess and we would win) . Moving to a zone required no action, but you could make an interaction skill check to move the prisoner with you.

Yeah, I played a game like that, too, but the tracks were called "stress" tracks, and there was mental and physical stress. The further along on the track you got, you started to suffer negative effects. Far enough down and you would pass out/die.I support that as the effect of the Kakama. Obviously this will require playtesting eventually to make sure there isn't a ridiculously overpowered mask or whatever. But that sounds good to me!

That's what they were called in my game, too. How do we plan on playtesting this, exactly?

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#77 Offline makuta_icarax

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Posted Oct 03 2012 - 08:51 AM

That's what they were called in my game, too. How do we plan on playtesting this, exactly?

Uh well, I suppose really all we can do is go full steam ahead and make up the whole system. Then see how it works out. I feel so long as we stick close to an established system, we'll be fine.Could someone make a list of all the confirmed things that have been created for this so far? I'm a bit confused as to what we have all definitively decided on.EDIT: So have we decided on the d20 system which would utilize dexterity, charisma, strength, etc, or the FATE pyramid? The FATE pyramid would most certainly be easier, but I know its a huge jump from what The Iron Toa first envisioned. I leave the decision in his hands.OK, so I just skimmed FATE, and basically it sounds as if it will work perfectly for what we're trying to do. Stunts could easily become mask powers for Toa, and regular skills for other, the elemental powers would be easy enough (and very fun) to create, and so on. The only snag that I could foresee would be that it might potentially be difficult to create different "races". Because FATE is a pulp game, its basically assuming that all the characters are going to be one species, in this case, human. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any way to differentiate between, say, Toa and Turaga. Normally it would be a stat increase or something, but that doesn't really lend itself to this. Any ideas?

Edited by makuta_icarax, Oct 03 2012 - 09:28 AM.

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#78 Offline The Mask of Ice

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Posted Oct 03 2012 - 01:08 PM

That's what they were called in my game, too. How do we plan on playtesting this, exactly?

Uh well, I suppose really all we can do is go full steam ahead and make up the whole system. Then see how it works out. I feel so long as we stick close to an established system, we'll be fine.Could someone make a list of all the confirmed things that have been created for this so far? I'm a bit confused as to what we have all definitively decided on.EDIT: So have we decided on the d20 system which would utilize dexterity, charisma, strength, etc, or the FATE pyramid? The FATE pyramid would most certainly be easier, but I know its a huge jump from what The Iron Toa first envisioned. I leave the decision in his hands.OK, so I just skimmed FATE, and basically it sounds as if it will work perfectly for what we're trying to do. Stunts could easily become mask powers for Toa, and regular skills for other, the elemental powers would be easy enough (and very fun) to create, and so on. The only snag that I could foresee would be that it might potentially be difficult to create different "races". Because FATE is a pulp game, its basically assuming that all the characters are going to be one species, in this case, human. Off the top of my head, I can't really think of any way to differentiate between, say, Toa and Turaga. Normally it would be a stat increase or something, but that doesn't really lend itself to this. Any ideas?

Your race grants you extra benefits. Vortixx have one extra profession related stunt and a "raw materials" stress track, which they can expend a number of units of to create a technological item related to your profession, with the number of units expended determining its numeric benefits (the track refreshes at the start of each game session). Toa get "elemental manipulation" as a skill, but get only one stunt instead of two, which is their mask. Matoran have an "expertise" track, which they can expend to grant bonuses on skill checks (the track refreshes at the start of each game session) and a certain benefit related to their element.. Turaga gain a +2 bonus to their reputation track, and control a faction or have one extra or 2 minions to assist them They must replace one stunt with a mask power (their elemental manipulation is too weak to be considered a skill). Skakdi have "cooperative elemental manipulation" as a skill, but must have a vision power in place of a stunt. And the list goes on...

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#79 Offline Death of the Endless

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Posted Oct 03 2012 - 04:11 PM

"NO TIME MEASUREMENTS" meant no seconds or minutes. Turns and rounds are perfect.Honestly, I think I'll back out now. I'm starting to run out of inspiration, and at this point I think I'll only hinder the development of the RPG by constantly disagreeing with everything. :P
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#80 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Oct 03 2012 - 05:45 PM

Well, you're not just hindering us by disagreeing, you're helping me keep things reasonable. But if you don't know what to say, that's fine. You can post again anytime you want if you get an idea.And I'm not sure about this stunts and skills system, Mask of Ice, sorry. I agree each race should have certain traits, but I get the feeling that that system places certain limitations I don't like.

Edited by The Iron Toa, Oct 03 2012 - 05:46 PM.

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