Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Welcome to BZPower!

Hi there, while we hope you enjoy browsing through the site, there's a lot more you can do if you register. The process is easy and you can use your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account to make it even faster. Some perks of joining include:
  • Create your own topics, participate in existing discussions, and vote in polls
  • Show off your creations, stories, art, music, and movies and play member and staff-run games
  • Enter contests to win free LEGO sets and other prizes, and vote to decide the winners
  • Participate in raffles, including exclusive raffles for new members, and win free LEGO sets
  • Send private messages to other members
  • Organize with other members to attend or send your MOCs to LEGO fan events all over the world
  • Much, much more!
Enjoy your visit!

Photo

[Update 10/17] Red Star Revelations

Red Star Greg Farshtey The Powers That Be

  • Please log in to reply
450 replies to this topic

#121 Offline The Legendary TNT

The Legendary TNT
  • Members
  • Conqueror of the Swarm!

  • 699 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 03:23 PM

I just wanted to say that I am really happy with all this new canon starting to show up! I'm new so could somebody tell me how to get the spoilers up?
  • 0

new_sig_legacy_2.png


#122 Offline toa kopaka4372

toa kopaka4372
  • Members
  • Nuhvok-Kal Attacks!

  • 3,024 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 03:49 PM

Spoiler

  • 0

toakopaka.png
Credit goes to Linus Van Pelt (Formerly known as Cherixon) and Spectral Avohkii Enterprises

My Memoirs of the Dead entry, Reflectons:

http://www.bzpower.c...?showtopic=7351

 


#123 Offline Katuko

Katuko
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Mask of Light Unveiled

  • 5,179 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 04:05 PM

EDIT: 4000th post! Whoop!
Spoiler

Edited by Katuko, Sep 20 2012 - 04:07 PM.

  • 0

rahkshi_elite_banner5b.png
Updated August 2014:Boss fight with Makuta!
[ What YOU can do to help develop BIONICLE Fighter! ]
Click here for my: Art | BZP Blog | WordPress Blog


#124 Offline Toa Smoke Monster

Toa Smoke Monster
  • Outstanding BZPower Citizens
  • Mask of Light Unveiled

  • 5,055 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 05:07 PM

I just wanted to say that I am really happy with all this new canon starting to show up! I'm new so could somebody tell me how to get the spoilers up?

You could either click the 'Special BBCode' and select 'spoiler' as your choice, then write whatever you want to post, or you could simply type 'spoiler' withbrackets around it at the beginning of whatever you want to post and put [/spoiler] at the end of it.

Edited by Toa Smoke Monster, Sep 20 2012 - 05:17 PM.

  • 0

Everyone is one choice away from being a bad guy in someone else's story.


#125 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 05:15 PM

Spoiler

  • 0

#126 Offline The Legendary TNT

The Legendary TNT
  • Members
  • Conqueror of the Swarm!

  • 699 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 06:33 PM

Wow, thanks
Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 20 2012 - 09:10 PM.
Fixing spoiler tag. :) -bones

  • 0

new_sig_legacy_2.png


#127 Offline toa kopaka4372

toa kopaka4372
  • Members
  • Nuhvok-Kal Attacks!

  • 3,024 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 07:10 PM

Spoiler

Edited by toa kopaka4372, Sep 20 2012 - 07:10 PM.

  • 0

toakopaka.png
Credit goes to Linus Van Pelt (Formerly known as Cherixon) and Spectral Avohkii Enterprises

My Memoirs of the Dead entry, Reflectons:

http://www.bzpower.c...?showtopic=7351

 


#128 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

The Lord Of Wednesday
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 106 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 07:40 PM

Spoiler

In reply to your reply about my memory speculation/theory.
Spoiler
This is a reply to what you said about fiction in general. Disclaimer: The reply below makes the assumption that all you said in the spoiler box containing my post was directed at me in some way, if it was not then disregard the part that mentions that. Thank you.
Spoiler

  • 0

Divinator of Dreams.
4hcuu9.jpg
This Is Proud Stigma.


#129 Offline Meta-Mind

Meta-Mind
  • Members
  • Stalwart Defender

  • 471 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 07:57 PM

Uh... guys... might want to look at this...
Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 20 2012 - 10:57 PM.
That's still a spoiler so moving it into the tags. -bones

  • 0

BZPRPG TIME, where you could have one post talk about dinner, and the next about lunch.

Time is beyond relative here.

There's no reason not to put lasers in the palms of planet-sized robots. In fact, if I had my own planet-sized robot, palm lasers would be one of my first upgrades. It's good for self-defense if you're attacked by something big.

BZPRPG Profiles

#130 Offline Toa Smoke Monster

Toa Smoke Monster
  • Outstanding BZPower Citizens
  • Mask of Light Unveiled

  • 5,055 posts
  •   Outstanding BZPower Citizen

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 08:09 PM

Uh... guys... might want to look at this...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 20 2012 - 10:57 PM.
Spoiler inside quote but outside spoiler tag moved in. -bones

  • 0

Everyone is one choice away from being a bad guy in someone else's story.


#131 Offline GallifreyanOrigin

GallifreyanOrigin
  • Members
  • Armored Protector

  • 302 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 08:11 PM

Uh... guys... might want to look at this...

Spoiler

Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 20 2012 - 10:57 PM.
Some spoilers that were outside the tags moved in. -bones

  • 0

| Sig Credit: - Everclear - |

#132 Offline Meta-Mind

Meta-Mind
  • Members
  • Stalwart Defender

  • 471 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 08:11 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

  • 0

BZPRPG TIME, where you could have one post talk about dinner, and the next about lunch.

Time is beyond relative here.

There's no reason not to put lasers in the palms of planet-sized robots. In fact, if I had my own planet-sized robot, palm lasers would be one of my first upgrades. It's good for self-defense if you're attacked by something big.

BZPRPG Profiles

#133 Offline The Iron Toa

The Iron Toa
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Submerged!

  • 1,140 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 09:17 PM

Huh. According to BS01, Gaardus was altered 'over 80,000 years ago'. The Kestora blame him for the Red Star's failure. So...
Spoiler

  • 0

theirontoa.png

My Blog

Latest Update: RPG: Character Creation and Stats

My Story Collection

Story Currently in Progress:

End of Yrenta (Review Topic) (Currently at 55 Chapters)

I realize I haven't updated my stories or posted much for quite a while. I will get back it it sometime, and I am still checking the site daily for any interesting topics.

Brickshelf Gallery


#134 Online namcurtsnoC

namcurtsnoC
  • Members
  • Mata Nuian Protector Defeated

  • 3,301 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 09:32 PM

How do you make spoiler tags?
  • 0

Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#135 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

The Lord Of Wednesday
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 106 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 09:45 PM

How do you make spoiler tags?

I use this method.
	Spoiler 
	
_linenums:0'>[spoiler]Text goes here.[/spoiler]Hope this helped.
  • 0

Divinator of Dreams.
4hcuu9.jpg
This Is Proud Stigma.


#136 Online namcurtsnoC

namcurtsnoC
  • Members
  • Mata Nuian Protector Defeated

  • 3,301 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 09:54 PM

Spoiler

Edited by Constructman, Sep 20 2012 - 09:54 PM.

  • 0

Antidermis: 50% pit mutagen, 50% questionable Ga-Koro water. We now know the secrets of Makuta's servants.


#137 Offline toa kopaka4372

toa kopaka4372
  • Members
  • Nuhvok-Kal Attacks!

  • 3,024 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 09:55 PM

Spoiler

  • 0

toakopaka.png
Credit goes to Linus Van Pelt (Formerly known as Cherixon) and Spectral Avohkii Enterprises

My Memoirs of the Dead entry, Reflectons:

http://www.bzpower.c...?showtopic=7351

 


#138 Offline GallifreyanOrigin

GallifreyanOrigin
  • Members
  • Armored Protector

  • 302 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 10:08 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

  • 0

| Sig Credit: - Everclear - |

#139 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 10:43 PM

Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 20 2012 - 11:26 PM.

  • 0

#140 Offline GallifreyanOrigin

GallifreyanOrigin
  • Members
  • Armored Protector

  • 302 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 11:38 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

Edited by XyzTheDay!, Sep 20 2012 - 11:41 PM.

  • 0

| Sig Credit: - Everclear - |

#141 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 20 2012 - 11:45 PM

FROGGER0 is also marking all the edits with an m for minor, which those edits certainly don't qualify as, possibly to avoid notice by staff. If any BS01 staff members are reading, check 'em out. Under Recent Changes, "(Main)" namespace almost all the edits are by him in the past two days, all marked with m.
Spoiler

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 21 2012 - 12:23 AM.

  • 0

#142 Offline GallifreyanOrigin

GallifreyanOrigin
  • Members
  • Armored Protector

  • 302 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:00 AM

Spoiler

Spoiler

Edited by XyzTheDay!, Sep 21 2012 - 12:00 AM.

  • 0

| Sig Credit: - Everclear - |

#143 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:17 AM

BTW, by the two-day-roundupto-midnight rule, since this spoiler was reported to the news, spoiler tags are no longer needed (for the Red Star spoiler specifically) from this point on. :)They are still needed for the Velika motive spoiler from the other topic, however.

I never knew the 777 Stairs even had such a function. :P

This post made me want to review what it was called and stuff, so I looked it up. It's the Chamber of Death. And lookie what BS01 says about it:

The chamber is one of the many obstacles located on the way down to the Chamber of Life, and was created by the Great Beings. The chamber requires any travelers to sacrifice one of its members in order to test their courage, although the victim is resurrected shortly afterwards.During their quest for the Kanohi Ignika, the Toa Inika passed through this room during their journey to the Chamber, and were ordered to make a sacrifice. After some moments of hesitation, Matoro volunteered, and was consequently disintegrated. However, he was then reformed, and the Toa were allowed to proceed on their quest.The room is described to have Lightstones in it, which give off a red glow.

[Bold and red emphasis mine]Whoa. Red Star, red...This would seem to give extremely strong evidence that this revelation was planned since then. Of course, if the sendback wasn't working by then we run into problems here. :shrugs: But maybe this device was a secondary system that mimicked it, just for the Stairs' purpose. Anywho... interesting apparent clue.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 21 2012 - 12:18 AM.

  • 0

#144 Offline Takatu

Takatu
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Nuva Team Assembled

  • 2,584 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:48 AM

I dunno, I still kinda figure the red lightstones were just to give the place an air of ominousness. And by the description, it seemed that the dead person's essence is transferred into another body (whether this new body is identical to the original, I can't say) before getting sent back. I got the impression that it was Matoro retained his same body, and didn't completely experience death fully, since his actual death at the end of 2007 seemed kinda foreign to him in his last moments.
  • 0

Posted Image


#145 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:59 AM

I dunno, I still kinda figure the red lightstones were just to give the place an air of ominousness. And by the description, it seemed that the dead person's essence is transferred into another body (whether this new body is identical to the original, I can't say) before getting sent back. I got the impression that it was Matoro retained his same body, and didn't completely experience death fully, since his actual death at the end of 2007 seemed kinda foreign to him in his last moments.

All of that can be true at the same time as that theory. But anyways, I'm just reacting in surprise mostly that there is such a well-fitting clue I forgot. :PLet's also recall, though, that this was the year Greg brought the Red Star to the main storyline (from just MNOG previously and maybe vague references), and set up a mystery about the red lightning. The next year, the mystery of the beings living in it was introduced. My point being, these evidences strongly support the theory that he planned this reveal at least by 2006. :)

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 21 2012 - 01:00 AM.

  • 0

#146 Offline GallifreyanOrigin

GallifreyanOrigin
  • Members
  • Armored Protector

  • 302 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 01:04 AM

The chamber is one of the many obstacles located on the way down to the Chamber of Life, and was created by the Great Beings. The chamber requires any travelers to sacrifice one of its members in order to test their courage, although the victim is resurrected shortly afterwards.During their quest for the Kanohi Ignika, the Toa Inika passed through this room during their journey to the Chamber, and were ordered to make a sacrifice. After some moments of hesitation, Matoro volunteered, and was consequently disintegrated. However, he was then reformed, and the Toa were allowed to proceed on their quest.The room is described to have Lightstones in it, which give off a red glow.

[Bold and red emphasis mine]Whoa. Red Star, red...This would seem to give extremely strong evidence that this revelation was planned since then. Of course, if the sendback wasn't working by then we run into problems here. :shrugs: But maybe this device was a secondary system that mimicked it, just for the Stairs' purpose. Anywho... interesting apparent clue.

Ahhhh. Alright, I can see where you're going with that. But while I like the idea, I was under the impression that the plots of the post-cancellation serials were only planned out once the main storyline ended, like a Post-Script Season. I may be wrong, but that's what I don't get about everyone saying that the Red Star being a recycle bin and Velika being a GB could have been planned from 2006+; it doesn't seem like those were even in the realm of possibility at the time. I mean, wasn't there a completely different plot lined up in case the sets hadn't been cancelled? Something involving Bota Magna and the Element Lords? It just seems to me like all this new information only became a possibility due to the spontaneity of the post-cancellation serials. If my notion is wrong, then please, correct me. I am truly confused.

Edited by XyzTheDay!, Sep 21 2012 - 01:05 AM.

  • 0

| Sig Credit: - Everclear - |

#147 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 09:44 AM

But while I like the idea, I was under the impression that the plots of the post-cancellation serials were only planned out once the main storyline ended, like a Post-Script Season. I may be wrong, but that's what I don't get about everyone saying that the Red Star being a recycle bin and Velika being a GB could have been planned from 2006+

Two things.First, I'm not talking about plot, but a secret about the world -- the Red Star as just revealed, specifically. That's all these clues likely mean.Second, we're pretty sure Greg came up with the Velika GB thing only at the end, although we don't necessarily know for sure.

it doesn't seem like those were even in the realm of possibility at the time.

Sure they were. Revival was established in 2003, and Great Beings (being totally mysterious to us, but with some 2006 hints showing them to be quite powerful in some ways) were around since 2001. Why would any of this not be possible with the world as established back then? I'm not saying all of it was planned, though. (And again, there's nothing wrong with new imagination late in the game, obviously.)And yes, there was undoubtedly a plot lined up to involve sets. Of course, who knows whether what we've got going on wasn't planned to be part of that plot in a different way?

  • 0

#148 Offline Takatu

Takatu
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Nuva Team Assembled

  • 2,584 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 11:27 AM

I dunno, I still kinda figure the red lightstones were just to give the place an air of ominousness. And by the description, it seemed that the dead person's essence is transferred into another body (whether this new body is identical to the original, I can't say) before getting sent back. I got the impression that it was Matoro retained his same body, and didn't completely experience death fully, since his actual death at the end of 2007 seemed kinda foreign to him in his last moments.

All of that can be true at the same time as that theory. But anyways, I'm just reacting in surprise mostly that there is such a well-fitting clue I forgot. :PLet's also recall, though, that this was the year Greg brought the Red Star to the main storyline (from just MNOG previously and maybe vague references), and set up a mystery about the red lightning. The next year, the mystery of the beings living in it was introduced. My point being, these evidences strongly support the theory that he planned this reveal at least by 2006. :)

Oh no doubt, something about all this tells me that it's been planned for a while, not a recent decision like Velika being the Great Being. I don't know if it's been from the beginning, but I do get the distinct feeling that it's something the whole story team figured out, not just Greg, quite a while back. Definitely at least 2006, since that was the first time since MNOG the Red Star actually did something. I just don't get the vibe that the Death Chamber beneath Voya Nui is really related, is all.

  • 0

Posted Image


#149 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:05 PM

It could easily have been planned as merely a clue in the sense of associating the color red with death and revival. Without actually being tapped into it at all.So the whole backup theory need not be true for that to have been an intentional clue towards this reveal. :) However, the reason I theorize that is that it makes so much sense for the GBs to backup such a valuable 'unit' as Matoro (or whoever would sacrifice themselves to save Mata Nui). I do think it would have to be a sub-system with its own Reviver that doesn't really teleport him up there, though. Much as I think Jaller's revival has to have been like a subsystem done by Takutanuva, not teleporting up. Since it seems clear the RS's sendback teleporter has been broken long before these events.And admittedly, the existence of a Reviver on Voya Nui that has apparently not been being used, even though Mata Nui would presumably know the RS isn't working, seems contradictory. Except of course we know Mata Nui's character flaw of not caring enough about what goes on inside him (and now probably inside the RS) -- otherwise regardless of a secondary reviver or not you'd think he would realize the resources problems and have somebody go to the RS to help the Kestora fix it. So yeah, the theory that there is a backup system for the sacrificee seems highly likely to me, though it may not have been the original intent of that scene.
  • 0

#150 Offline GallifreyanOrigin

GallifreyanOrigin
  • Members
  • Armored Protector

  • 302 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:08 PM

Two things.First, I'm not talking about plot, but a secret about the world -- the Red Star as just revealed, specifically. That's all these clues likely mean.Second, we're pretty sure Greg came up with the Velika GB thing only at the end, although we don't necessarily know for sure.

1) Oh, okay. Sorry. I misunderstood.2) On that one I had just seen several people say stuff like "Velika always spoke in riddles and he built the multi-shot Zamor Launchers so maybe his true nature was planned all along" which didn't make sense to me. I viewed it as more of a retroactive thing, which I'm sure that it is.

Sure they were. Revival was established in 2003, and Great Beings (being totally mysterious to us, but with some 2006 hints showing them to be quite powerful in some ways) were around since 2001. Why would any of this not be possible with the world as established back then? I'm not saying all of it was planned, though. (And again, there's nothing wrong with new imagination late in the game, obviously.)And yes, there was undoubtedly a plot lined up to involve sets. Of course, who knows whether what we've got going on wasn't planned to be part of that plot in a different way?

Okay, maybe "within the realm of possibility" was a bad choice of words. I meant to say something like, "how could these things have been planned ahead of time if the circumstances (i.e. the idea of having a renegade GB hiding out in the Matoran Universe, which from what I understand was only conceived as a plot point in 2011) surrounding these revelations only came into existence recently?" Of course, I agree that new information is still good at this point, I just don't get why so many people are assuming that this new information has really been a secret, planned fact for a long time and is only now coming out.Although I somehow managed to forget that the idea of "beings living in the Red Star" has been around since well before 2011, so I guess that's a moot point on my end.

  • 0

| Sig Credit: - Everclear - |

#151 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 12:14 PM

On that one I had just seen several people say stuff like "Velika always spoke in riddles and he built the multi-shot Zamor Launchers so maybe his true nature was planned all along" which didn't make sense to me. I viewed it as more of a retroactive thing, which I'm sure that it is.

I would say I bet Greg's subconscious planned it all along. I know mine pulls tricks like that on me all the time with my mysteries. Often as the writer of my fanfics I discover the secret as I write much as the reader would as they read. :P (Though obviously not on the big planned things.) Velika fits so very well. But consciously Greg definitely made it sound like he hadn't thought of it until recently, yeah.My guess is that the original story Bible had many big secrets, including about Great Beings, and maybe the booster rocket thing (since the Great Spirit thing was planned), and the year arcs with sets were based on coming up with villains year by year, but always to slowly reveal some of the originals.With the Red Star, I bet it was only ever supposed to be a booster rocket originally, but when MNOG featured it so beautifully the fans really fell in love with it as a huge mystery and they realized just that wouldn't do, and came up with this around 2005-2006, then planted clues for it from then on just as they have planted clues since the start for other mysteries. Of course we should keep in mind that for a mystery story like this, it certainly makes sense to, as a matter of course, usually wait a while to reveal new mysteries you came up with so you have some time to clue-drop.With the post-giant-robot-battle time I presume the year-by-year stuff had to be dropped since it would have involved new sets, and Greg needed a villain to replace them and came up with the GB thing then. :)That's my theroy.

I meant to say something like, "how could these things have been planned ahead of time if the circumstances (i.e. the idea of having a renegade GB hiding out in the Matoran Universe, which from what I understand was only conceived as a plot point in 2011) surrounding these revelations only came into existence recently?"

See above. Essentially, that's exactly what we should expect for a mystery story. When I form my mystery fanfics I usually have an array of secrets I planned from the start, but I "let the story write itself" in terms of when and how the secrets come out. Several times my stories have surprised me on when the secrets come out (I call this the Arena Method; avoiding authorial guiding like the plague, and instead focusing mostly on building the world first and then letting the characters struggle through it however they realistically would; see "Best Of" link in sig for link to my old blog entry on it).Some new secrets occur to me as I write, or as I continue to plan later stories before I write those and after I've written previous ones. Without necessarily knowing when I come up with them how I plan to reveal them.Writing a mystery story is usually not an all-invented-along-the-way-together process. It varies.

Edited by bonesiii, Sep 21 2012 - 12:21 PM.

  • 0

#152 Offline Katuko

Katuko
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Members
  • Mask of Light Unveiled

  • 5,179 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 01:31 PM

Spoiler

  • 0

rahkshi_elite_banner5b.png
Updated August 2014:Boss fight with Makuta!
[ What YOU can do to help develop BIONICLE Fighter! ]
Click here for my: Art | BZP Blog | WordPress Blog


#153 Offline The Lord Of Wednesday

The Lord Of Wednesday
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 106 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 02:57 PM

@ Bonesiii, regarding "finality and value of death".This is admittedly where I should have been more clear, the particular sort of death I was thinking about was a well executed, sort of epic or romantic sort of death (romantic in this case referring to Romanticism, not necessarily love), as well as a particular kind of symbolism (death is final symbolism, rather then reincarnation symbolism) with it in some cases (Matoro's Heroic Sacrifice could be an example of this, more or less). Though admittedly I do not think finality is the only thing that could bring "value" to it, for example I can see it being used for sake of redemption, as it commonly is, rather then finality as one particular example. I also like the idea of symbolic survival of a dead character as well as afterlife, and ghost visits (such as what they did with Bobby in Supernatural), or situations where the death of a character is questionable. Anyway I just wanted to elaborate more on this subject.
  • 0

Divinator of Dreams.
4hcuu9.jpg
This Is Proud Stigma.


#154 Offline Fastcar800

Fastcar800
  • Members
  • Toa

  • 150 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 03:07 PM

Wow. I would've never guessed that the Red Star is used for that. I am :rollaway: (Blown away)
  • 0

virux4.5-500.jpg

 

Semi-active As Of 11/20/2013


#155 Offline The Legendary TNT

The Legendary TNT
  • Members
  • Conqueror of the Swarm!

  • 699 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 03:14 PM

So if the re-teleporter is broken, how come they didn't put everyone back during booster-rocket mode? Also, (I don't know if anyone ever brought this up) but are all those Toa Mangai that good ol' Terry sent to their deaths to get them out of Metru Nui are alive? Just speculation.EDIT: I checked BS01 and Teridax's page has been fixed. No need to worry, everyone!

Edited by TNT-DJ Vezon, Sep 21 2012 - 03:39 PM.

  • 0

new_sig_legacy_2.png


#156 Offline toa kopaka4372

toa kopaka4372
  • Members
  • Nuhvok-Kal Attacks!

  • 3,024 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 03:54 PM

Spoiler

  • 0

toakopaka.png
Credit goes to Linus Van Pelt (Formerly known as Cherixon) and Spectral Avohkii Enterprises

My Memoirs of the Dead entry, Reflectons:

http://www.bzpower.c...?showtopic=7351

 


#157 Offline bonesiii

bonesiii
  • Premier Member
  • Premier Forum Leaders
  • Perpetual Master of Reference

  • 18,890 posts
  •   BZP Leader

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 05:21 PM

So, my keyboard's going nuts again and deleted a long post lol. Summary of what I had typed and don't have time to retype:It's not normal for people to forget they murdered people, no. :PThe Takanuva revival thing is not known to be canon; see the topic that is open on this now.I suspect the RS can send out a beam of reviving power, but only to certain machines, or highly life-energied beings like Takutanuva, to channel a fully-in-MU revival power. This would explain Jaller and Matoro 777, as well as Takanuva if that's canon. Matoro by the GB device with the red lightstones (likely meant at least as a clue by the GBs towards the purpose of the RS). And Jaller either purely by Takutanuva, or as I hope by Takutanuva redirecting the effect of one of the two dots of the UDD symbol.Keep in mind the Takanuva revival theory usually relies on the idea that the symbol is merely decoration over machines beneath it designed to do this. (However, we don't know if that's canon.) Just like how you can't logically look at a simple car hood and say there's no engine. :)However, even if it's not a machine, why should that really be stranger than the other simple objects that have protodermic powers in Bionicle? Kanoka disks are round featureless materials whose particles project powers. Likewise, the circles in the symbol could be round featureless materials with that power. I don't think it's really about that at all but again a tendency some have to treat death &/or revival differently than they do other fictional physics-powers. If you remove that "spot on your lens", revival is just another power in a universe filled with powers.

Marvel, DC Comics... and many other forms of superhero stories

Well, I've never been into those and so I wouldn't know and I'm not here to defend those comics. (Although I love the movies which tend to seem miles above the comics. :)) We're talking about Bionicle. I suspect that if you asked them, they would say something like that is simply part of the genre and is expected and even demanded by its audience. Besides, the ability to criticize does not prove the criticism reasonable. :P

have often been critizied for making death almost pointless as a plot device because it's known that any character can be brought back for any reason that a writer feels like adding. Keeping it unexplained is then better, almost

Problem is this is just your taste. If we try to judge by the fan or critic's taste, then the problem is you can always find another fan who would say that leaving it unexplained is what would make it a mere plot device.Anywho, I just think the solution to all these criticisms is simply for authors to never "use plot devices" but rather to follow the Arena Method. That is, if it is logical that something would exist in the world, it develops because of the world and the characters, not because it might happen to match up with a trope. And if that something wouldn't exist/happen/whatnot, then don't do it, even if doing so would fulfill someone's preference for a certain plot device, trope, or extraneous out-world rule. To have events in the story have no relation to what's on the other side of the Fourth Wall, except in where you as the author choose to place those windows.Make sense? :)That way -- since no matter what you do, people can level the charge of using plot devices -- if they do level the charge at you it will simply not be true. :)Now whether you think Bionicle lives up to this enough for your tastes is another question; I think it usually seems to, but sometimes does not. However, there is of course some amount of circularity in building an Arena that will likely produce the results you want, so ultimately it's all up to the author. We can make constructive criticism but I don't think basing "thou shalt not" rules on our mere personal tastes works. Furthermore, it seems clear that it's a fan's choice to build such rules that just worsens their dislike of it, rather than if they at least tried to be open to it, they might actually like it.Kinda like the kid who pretends not to like a food in order to avoid trying it -- to avoid change, or whatever -- but if they do finally try give it a chance with a positive attitude towards it finds out heshe likes it. :)Outta time for anything more now...

  • 0

#158 Offline CarkaJack

CarkaJack
  • Members
  • Tohunga

  • 24 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 05:58 PM

Spoiler

  • 0

2! The best thing ever!


#159 Offline The Legendary TNT

The Legendary TNT
  • Members
  • Conqueror of the Swarm!

  • 699 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 07:34 PM

@Bonesiii: Maybe the the "Chamber of Death" is using the same general tech the Red Star uses, just brought down to a smaller scale since it doesn't have as big a job to do (not less important however). It may not have to be connected to the Red Star.@CarkaJack: For some reason I could totally see that happening! That would suck if that was supposed to be the climax.@Main Topic: Could the "Spirit's Wish" Gateway have something to do with the Red Star? Tarduk went up that way to find it, and that's where it was on the map. Was it ever canonized that the spot was supposed to be the place of its construction and not foreshadowing for something bigger?

Edited by TNT-DJ Vezon, Sep 21 2012 - 07:34 PM.

  • 0

new_sig_legacy_2.png


#160 Offline Kahi

Kahi
  • Members
  • Pahrak-Kal Melted

  • 4,543 posts
  •  

Posted Sep 21 2012 - 08:29 PM

Spoiler

Edited by Kahi, Sep 21 2012 - 11:38 PM.

  • 0

Posted Image





0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users