[Update 10/17] Red Star Revelations

[Erebus]

Updated first post with new information:

Fulfilling your destiny does not mean you cannot be revived. We have seen plenty of characters fulfill their destiny and yet live on. The point of the red star is basically that even Mata Nui is not self-sustaining if it loses too many beings (to an accident, say), the same way you could not survive if you lost too many blood cells without replacing them. We haven't SEEN Lhikan alive again, that doesn't mean he isn't.

 

Rahi can be revived, since they play a role in Mata Nui's functioning as well.

[bonesiii]

:DFor the record, enough time has passed that we don't need spoiler tags for the previous info, but please do use them for these latest two spoilers in Erebus's post above.

[Klak]

More awesome reveals.

So Lhikan might still be alive? Excellent. I'm also glad Greg cleared up any problems with the Red Star's function, though I think it just makes it more vague who can and who cannot come back. I wonder if Sidorak is alive :PThe lightning isn't that surprising, but I must admit I didn't think of it in that way. It definitely shows that the Great Beings are prepared for almost everything. Batman Syndrome, anyone?

Edited October 10, 2012 by KlakWest

[flynn58]

More Greg reveals?This is most interesting. As in, posting at 5:30 in the morning interesting. Lhikan definitely will be a nice twist to the story.

[Taipu1]

Information is pouring in, but I can't help but feel its a sign Greg isn't planning to finish the two serials...

I'd like to think the fact we haven't seen Lhikan alive, means he's not. Lhikan and Matoro are two people who need to stay dead. I mean the ramifications of Lhikan coming back from the dead on Vakama's general confidence and leadership could be potentially bad. So I hope that he's not alive. If he was intending to bring anyone back, its looking to be Tren Krom. Wouldn't mind seeing one of the Makuta return, with the exception of Teridax.

[Toa Smoke Monster]

I'm not surprised that beings who've completed their destiny could come back from the RS. And if Lhikan is alive in the RS, I wonder what Kanohi he has been wearing all this time? (Or if there is even a Kanohi for him to wear in the RS.)I'm a little surprised by the new Rahi information though. I thought they weren't sent to the RS after death, since both Voyage of Fear and Maze of Shadows had Rahi bodies in them. I guess those particular Rahi were too damaged to be revived.

[onionfarb]

Man, more new information? So much now!I hope this means that there will be more serial updates, but I guess we can't be sure.

[Code Name: Raven]

A particular thing I'm curious about is if the Makuta's transition to antidermis, being unforseen (I think?), impacted their ability to be taken to the Red Star?

[The Iron Toa]

This additional information is nice, but I'm not as excited by the content of it as much as the fact that we've gotten more information just three days after the last bit.

It still leaves questions about all the corpses and carcasses that were left behind. Maybe it sometimes takes weeks or more for a body to disappear? Maybe the bits left behind were broken off from the most important parts, which were were teleported away?

[The Legendary TNT]

Greg Farshtey said:Rahi can be revived, since they play a role in Mata Nui's functioning as well.Well blows what I said to the wind doesn't it?

Edited October 10, 2012 by bonesiii
Please use the spoiler tag next time, not just the word "spoiler". :) -bones

[Lewa Krom]

Do we know if Greg intends to finish the serials? Because, if not, I hope that he allows bonesiii to finish it for him. These revelations are nice, but actual chapters would be better. (Not saying I don't want the revelations...)Let's Keep Bionicle Alive,Lewa Krom

[Makuta Matata]

If someone dies on Spherus Magna, will they be transported to the Red Star? For example, if some died on Voya Nui or in the Pit or on Spherus Magna or something, would he/she have been transported to the Red Star or would he have stayed dead? Basically what I'm asking is do they have to die IN the MU or can they be an inhabitant of the MU to get there?

[fishers64]

It still leaves questions about all the corpses and carcasses that were left behind. Maybe it sometimes takes weeks or more for a body to disappear? Maybe the bits left behind were broken off from the most important parts, which were were teleported away?

Some of the dead things from Maze of Shadows, one of which Nuju raised and lowered with his teleketic powers, were sea creatures that suffocated to death, though. No mention of those were made afterwards. Their deaths being recent would indicate that their deaths were related to draining out of water out of an area that was recently flooded, support for an old Voyage of Fear theory that water was coming in from the outside due to earthquake damage and flooded that area. In view of that, I'm more inclined to think that the Rahi in question were recently killed. I don't know by what. Also, occured to me that the timing of the teleportations might have something to do with destiny - the body involved wouldn't teleport away until the other beings around it confirmed it was dead, but once they left it...away it goes. There might be some destiny there - the Toa Metru might have needed to see those dead Rahi for some reason. I don't know why, but it's something...:shrugs:Also means that all of Mavrah's pets are up in the Red Star (at least, the ones that died). I wonder how he feels about that.

Do we know if Greg intends to finish the serials? Because, if not, I hope that he allows bonesiii to finish it for him. These revelations are nice, but actual chapters would be better. (Not saying I don't want the revelations...)Let's Keep Bionicle Alive,Lewa Krom

To the first question, we don't know. And no. Just no. :wince:Vastly different writing styles there...aside from the time and information problems involved. Nothing will replace a chapter from GregF IMO...except a chapter from GregF. :)Just my opinion though...no insult meant to bonesiii.

[bonesiii]

Information is pouring in, but I can't help but feel its a sign Greg isn't planning to finish the two serials...I'd like to think the fact we haven't seen Lhikan alive, means he's not. Lhikan and Matoro are two people who need to stay dead. I mean the ramifications of Lhikan coming back from the dead on Vakama's general confidence and leadership could be potentially bad. So I hope that he's not alive. If he was intending to bring anyone back, its looking to be Tren Krom. Wouldn't mind seeing one of the Makuta return, with the exception of Teridax.

The thing is, I think there need to be (and likely are) regular rules that determine who comes back and who doesn't -- including possibly times when things on the RS broke down and stuff. So I don't think Greg could just pick and choose who is back and who isn't -- unless of course he's one that the Kestora dissected. :PIn other words, when the Red Star is bringing people back, I don't think it's worried about the psychological impact it might have on living people.

And if Lhikan is alive in the RS, I wonder what Kanohi he has been wearing all this time? (Or if there is even a Kanohi for him to wear in the RS.)

Mask-wearing Matoran are the most basic species in the MU, and Greg included the possibility that the RS could make new bodies if the old was too heavily damaged to repair. The GBs wouldn't design such a system and fail to account for their primary creations. Therefore I'd say it must have (or once had) the capability to make new masks.

A particular thing I'm curious about is if the Makuta's transition to antidermis, being unforseen (I think?), impacted their ability to be taken to the Red Star?

There was no transition to antidermis; they were always antidermis. It was a transition to a gaseous state. See here:http://biosector01.com/wiki/index.php/AntidermisAnywho, that transition might have affected things, not sure. Here's what it says about how to kill Makuta:

Antidermis can be destroyed by intense heat, such as Plasma or concentrated Fire, and can also crystallize if exposed to extremely low temperatures for an extended period of time; such crystallization will kill the Makuta. A free-floating Makuta can keep themselves together through will for short periods of time; however, after about two weeks of exposure, they will dissipate and die.

In the case of burning or dissipation, clearly this means they can't be taken, but the question is if they could before. The first sentence here may imply that yes, their original solid forms could be destroyed by intense heat (but probably not by dissipation?? ).Also, not sure the crystallization thing has ever actually happened or how that would affect things.

Do we know if Greg intends to finish the serials? Because, if not, I hope that he allows bonesiii to finish it for him. These revelations are nice, but actual chapters would be better. (Not saying I don't want the revelations...)Let's Keep Bionicle Alive,Lewa Krom

*is flattered*But yeah, that would be pretty weird. :PNo offense taken, fishers. If it was going to be continued by fans, realistically there would be a more open, Story-Squad-poll-like process to decide who, almost certainly, mainly because Greg cannot read fan fiction so he couldn't determine who is close enough to his style and the like. Possibly even an open contest, if we didn't mind being given all the details up front (as we're being given many anyways).

[Great Being Velika]

Cool to hear something else from Greg.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Brander

[northmarch]

Umm...

That's a lot of visorak. I think they might have a bit of a bug problem up there.

Edited October 11, 2012 by bonesiii
Spoiler tag added. -bones

[GallifreyanOrigin]

Umm...That's a lot of visorak. I think they might have a bit of a bug problem up there.

True, but keep in mind, the Red Star is big enough to cover a good portion of Mata Nui's back, so it's at least the size of a moon. :PAnyway, I'm rather surprised (and pleased, of course) by how frequently we've been receiving updates lately. It makes me wonder what else we might get some information on.

Edited October 11, 2012 by bonesiii
Spoiler tag added. -bones

[Toa Lhikan Hordika]

This is all very exciting news.

I don't know if the Visorak were really all that essential to Mata Nui's functioning though. While I don't believe it's been clarified just yet, I wouldn't be surprised if the Kestora could pick and choose which beings to revive/save, because I don't think reviving thousands of Visorak is going to benefit anyone other than the Visorak.As far as the Red Star creating Toa out of necessity, it's probably a stupid question to ask, but since the lightning can only affect those outside of the MU, can it affect any Matoran (as in turning them into Toa). I'm sure the answer is "Not if it's not their destiny," but I do have to wonder, seeing as it appears to be more of an emergency function.

-

Edited October 11, 2012 by Toa Lhikan Hordika

[The Legendary TNT]

Let's hope the spoiler tags work for me this time cuz' I hate it when they don't work and Bonesiii has to fix them (thanks bro).

I would not like it if all the visorak were up on the red star cuz that isjust horrible. They would "M&D" everyone who died and--Wait, THAT'S IT!The thing that freaked out Kopaka are beings that have beenmutated by the horde and that's why he and everyone is on edge since there are visorak and mutated beings running around. BOOM!

WOO! It worked!

Edited October 12, 2012 by TNT-DJ Vezon

[The Iron Toa]

And Visorak aren't the only nasty things that have died.

[bonesiii]

This is all very exciting news. I don't know if the Visorak were really all that essential to Mata Nui's functioning though. While I don't believe it's been clarified just yet, I wouldn't be surprised if the Kestora could pick and choose which beings to revive/save, because I don't think reviving thousands of Visorak is going to benefit anyone other than the Visorak.As far as the Red Star creating Toa out of necessity, it's probably a stupid question to ask, but since the lightning can only affect those outside of the MU, can it affect any Matoran (as in turning them into Toa). I'm sure the answer is "Not if it's not their destiny," but I do have to wonder, seeing as it appears to be more of an emergency function.-

1) Unless, of course, someone could Sidorak them. Like maybe Sidorak, lol.2) Methinks it's a clear no. As we were discussing just on the previous page (I think it was), the lightning was active almost as soon as the Piraka arrived, and there were plenty of Matoran there to Toa-ize. It only activated when the six who were destined (especially Matoro) moved into range in the canisters.

I would not like it if all the visorak were up on the red star cuz that isjust horrible. They would "M&D" everyone who died and--Wait, THAT'S IT!The thing that freaked out Kopaka are beings that have beenmutated by the horde and that's why he everyone is on edge since there are visorak and mutated beings running around. BOOM!

That makes a ton of sense. That would creep anyone out.

Edited October 11, 2012 by bonesiii

[unknown456]

In regards to the 10/7 reveal (which I'm pretty sure we don't need spoiler tags for), dosen't that make Marendar kind of well, a moot idea? Since one of the Red Star 's many functions is to turn matoran(destined?) who are outside the M.U. into Toa, and Marendar's purpose is to kill all Toa (good or not) who are on Spherus Magna, this seems like a rather strange idea, because it seems to me that the Red Star would give Marendar a near endless supply of Toa to kill. But, who knows? maybe the G.B.'s did that on purpose to let Marendar have some fun . Or maybe the G.B.'s intended that, to get rid of both species at the same time, making any nessisary "clean-up" easier.

[The Legendary TNT]

The whole point of Marendar was to protect the Agori from a Toa threat (that sounds so weird). Once the threat is resolved, Marendar would shut down or something. And I think the Red Star was supposed to shut down once Mata Nui did, rendering revival and Toa creation useless and therefore, halted. My theory at least.

Edited October 12, 2012 by TNT-DJ Vezon

[bonesiii]

In regards to the 10/7 reveal (which I'm pretty sure we don't need spoiler tags for), dosen't that make Marendar kind of well, a moot idea? Since one of the Red Star 's many functions is to turn matoran(destined?) who are outside the M.U. into Toa, and Marendar's purpose is to kill all Toa (good or not) who are on Spherus Magna, this seems like a rather strange idea, because it seems to me that the Red Star would give Marendar a near endless supply of Toa to kill. But, who knows? maybe the G.B.'s did that on purpose to let Marendar have some fun . Or maybe the G.B.'s intended that, to get rid of both species at the same time, making any nessisary "clean-up" easier.

That's just one planet out of vast numbers of alien worlds he landed on, and of course Aqua Magna after the GC, prior to the Reforming. Plenty of other worlds an Inika-style Toaization could possibly be needed on. (The RS comes with Mata Nui on those voyages.)And the idea was to support any need for the planet to be reformed. Now that that's happened, the original assumption that the MU beings including Toa were basically just technology and should shut down after the Task is done comes into play. Marendar was built with that in mind, as Angonce thinks about in that scene. So if all had gone according to plan, there shouldn't be anymore Matoran to become Toa, or missions for them.

[Lewa Krom]

Maybe when Marendar kills an MU inhabitant, they aren't sent up to the Red Star and are instead permanently killed. Like they aren't sent to the Red Star at all.

[fishers64]

Theory:Given that the timed teleportation thing on the bodies, I'm very close to scrapping the idea that people outside the MU can't be teleported to the RS. They would just have to be in range of whatever teleports the dead beings in question to the star. I think it would be some sort of technological device. :shrugs:Unless there are like some machines in dead beings that activate upon death, but then the teleportation would work regardless of them being inside the MU. And since Tren Krom thought he could be teleported to the Red Star, and he's pretty organic...not exactly. I suppose if the whole thing was an innate quality of protodermis to teleport dead things to the Red Star, that would work as well, but the same rule still applies...if the Matoran take the MU apart and build shelters out of it, then probably the same rule would still apply.A few questions:It occurred to me - how does the technology of the Red Star determine when an inhabitant is inside the MU? Maybe the MU inhabitants can steal the teleporters and build like a zone of safety or something for the Toa? Or is that a bit much to ask?Speaking of which, where are these things? You would think there would be a way to access them in case they malfunctioned...I think they might be something we already know...

[The Iron Toa]

I was just rereading the Ignition comics, and in one of them Jaller mentions seeing Rahi that had been dead for a month. Maybe the carcasses he mentioned were remains the Red Star wouldn't take, or maybe it didn't take bodies from the island of Mata Nui, but it sounds to me like that means bodies can be left behind for at least that long.

[Toa Of Virtues]

So much information...Well, my theory for the dead rahi carcasses being left around could be one of two reasons: One, their bodies were too damaged to fix, and/or if they were on Mata Nui or Voya Nui (outside the MU), so they wouldnt get sent back. That actually might explain why there were dead rahi in marhi-nui. Maybe, they died on or around the shore of voya nui, and later sank around Marhi Nui.That brings up a question: If a being dies outside the MU, but then later gets brought back inside the MU, would they be revived?Another theory...I think there is a big connection between kanohi and the teleportation to the RS. As we have seen, when someone dies, their mask is left behind. That mask can be a link between the RS and the body (and where it is sent back to). In fact, that may be the soul purpose of powerless kanohi. Think about it, why would the GB's make the Matoran rely on wearing a mask to keep them from dying, when that object is useless? It is the link between the matoran and the RS. As for the rahi, skakdi, and other maskless species... Maybe they use other meathods. Rahi may have small, limited teleportation powers as a result of being created by Makuta. As for the other maskless species, they may leave somthing else behind, somthing not as strong as a powerless kanohi (heartstone maybe?). But since the Matoran made up the majority of the population, the GB's wanted to make sure their revival was more certain than the other species, so gave them powerless kanohi.Just some theories...

[Flex Lord Splash]

This literally changes everything... it said in the update that Teridax and Matoro can't come back though. I'm not sure if I like this... it sort of makes death seem unimportant... I don't like the idea of evil characters coming back again from death, or just being rebuilt and coming back alive, I mean what teleports them there? How do they always find the dead person across the entire Matoran universe? The Red Star doesn't seem that big to me. I just don't know...Honestly I can see matoran being brought back with the mask thing... but I think it should ONLY bring back matoran. They are like the blood cells of Mata Nui since they keep it in check, the other races.. Skakdi etc... not really.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Flex Capacitor

[GallifreyanOrigin]

I mean what teleports them there? How do they always find the dead person across the entire Matoran universe? The Red Star doesn't seem that big to me. I just don't know...Honestly I can see matoran being brought back with the mask thing... but I think it should ONLY bring back matoran. They are like the blood cells of Mata Nui since they keep it in check, the other races.. Skakdi etc... not really.

I would assume that either there are Kestora set up to monitor the MU and that they are in charge of teleporting deceased beings onto the Red Star, or that is is simply an automated process.The Red Star may not seem big, but as I pointed out a few posts ago, it's large enough to cover a sizable portion of Mata Nui's back, and since Mata Nui is as tall as Earth, that would make the Red Star at least the size of a small moon.The Matoran aren't the only beings that are crucial to Mata Nui's operation. The Skakdi, Vortixx, Steltians, etc. are all equally as important.

Edited October 13, 2012 by XyzTheDay!

[fishers64]

If Rahi are important, beings who just sit around, roar, possibly cause destruction and keep Matoran away from places...those things are revived......then Skakdi and Steltians, who mine things (formerly) and regulate the flow of commerce throughout the MU...would be revived.

[Toa Of Virtues]

I agree that other species would be revived, I'm just pointing out that they don't have kanohi. I guess kanohi are more of a presision tool for teleporting. The revived Matoran are ment to be sent back into their masks. But with other species, since they don't have a mask, they can be just teleported randomly in the MU or near the place where they died. Why didn't they get masks? Maybe because their duties to Mata nui are more general than individual Matoran. Like, if a rahi dies, gets revived, and is sent back to an entirely different island, it shouldn't make much of a difference. But if a Matoran is revived in a completly different place, they may have to change their job, and their duty would be messed up. Either that, or the GB's simply ran out of materials to give every other species Kanohi.

[The Legendary TNT]

I agree that other species would be revived, I'm just pointing out that they don't have kanohi. I guess kanohi are more of a presision tool for teleporting. The revived Matoran are ment to be sent back into their masks. But with other species, since they don't have a mask, they can be just teleported randomly in the MU or near the place where they died. Why didn't they get masks? Maybe because their duties to Mata nui are more general than individual Matoran. Like, if a rahi dies, gets revived, and is sent back to an entirely different island, it shouldn't make much of a difference. But if a Matoran is revived in a completly different place, they may have to change their job, and their duty would be messed up. Either that, or the GB's simply ran out of materials to give every other species Kanohi.

I don't think they ran out of materials, it's just how the race's anatomy is. Take the Skakdi for example. They could wear kanohi, but they don't because it takes to much mental discipline to use it. How Vezon had the discipline to wear an Olmak, I have no clue...

Edited October 13, 2012 by TNT-DJ Vezon

[fishers64]

I agree that other species would be revived, I'm just pointing out that they don't have kanohi. I guess kanohi are more of a presision tool for teleporting. The revived Matoran are ment to be sent back into their masks. But with other species, since they don't have a mask, they can be just teleported randomly in the MU or near the place where they died. Why didn't they get masks? Maybe because their duties to Mata nui are more general than individual Matoran. Like, if a rahi dies, gets revived, and is sent back to an entirely different island, it shouldn't make much of a difference. But if a Matoran is revived in a completly different place, they may have to change their job, and their duty would be messed up. Either that, or the GB's simply ran out of materials to give every other species Kanohi.

I don't think they ran out of materials, it's just how the race's anatomy is. Take the Skakdi for example. They could wear kanohi, but they don't because it takes to much mental discipline to use it. How Vezon had the discipline to wear an Olmak, I have no clue...

He didn't actually wear the Olmak - he was fused with it, and most certainly does not have the mental discipline to use it properly.

[Meta-Mind]

I agree that other species would be revived, I'm just pointing out that they don't have kanohi. I guess kanohi are more of a presision tool for teleporting. The revived Matoran are ment to be sent back into their masks. But with other species, since they don't have a mask, they can be just teleported randomly in the MU or near the place where they died. Why didn't they get masks? Maybe because their duties to Mata nui are more general than individual Matoran. Like, if a rahi dies, gets revived, and is sent back to an entirely different island, it shouldn't make much of a difference. But if a Matoran is revived in a completly different place, they may have to change their job, and their duty would be messed up. Either that, or the GB's simply ran out of materials to give every other species Kanohi.

I don't think they ran out of materials, it's just how the race's anatomy is. Take the Skakdi for example. They could wear kanohi, but they don't because it takes to much mental discipline to use it. How Vezon had the discipline to wear an Olmak, I have no clue...

He didn't actually wear the Olmak - he was fused with it, and most certainly does not have the mental discipline to use it properly.

Actually, Vezon did use the Olmak once before he was fused with it:

Keetongu growled. Helryx glanced at him to see that his attention was directed behind them - specifically, he was looking at a hole in space that had just opened. Thoughts raced through Helryx's mind. Had Brutaka come to save them? Where did this portal lead? But there wasn't time for answers, only escape. Grabbing Keetongu's wrist, she pulled him toward the hole. They dove in together with no idea of where they would emerge.At the same moment, a figure appeared in the portal. He stepped out into the chamber. If anyone had been present to see, they might have recognized him as the mad criminal Vezon, his face hidden behind a Kanohi Olmak, the Mask of Dimensional Gates. And if they peered closely, they might have seen his eyes widen at the sight of a wall of Energized Protodermis coming right at him."Uh-oh," he said.

It was that Energized Protodermis that fused him with the Olmak, actually.Now, whether he could use it properly (he did, after all, accidentally teleport to a random wave of Energized Protodermis) is a different question entirely.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Meta-Mind

[The Iron Toa]

I think the Mask of Life had a lasting effect on Vezon that let him activate masks despite not normally having the focus to do so.

[Toa Of Virtues]

This is getting a little off-topic. The point is, Vezon is a special circumstance for kanohi. I am saying that the GB's made the non-kanohi species anatomy so that they couldn't have kanohi on purpose. My theory is that Matoran have kanohi, even though they are powerless, to be a target of where to teleport the body back to. Since the other species are not as important as the Matoran, why waste precious materials on them? They just would be teleported back to a random location where they can be put to work.

[flynn58]

If they were not meant to have a purpose, why put them in the robot meant to save your planet because it fractured into different pieces?Obviously the skakdi had a purpose in the Matoran Universe Robot, whether it has been revealed yet or not. Kanohi most likely are a tracking system for the Red Star to pick up dead bodies. But by that logic, Turaga Lhikan would be dead, as his kanohi was removed and provided to Jaller.

[bonesiii]

Spoiler tags no longer needed.

If they were not meant to have a purpose, why put them in the robot meant to save your planet because it fractured into different pieces?Obviously the skakdi had a purpose in the Matoran Universe Robot, whether it has been revealed yet or not. Kanohi most likely are a tracking system for the Red Star to pick up dead bodies. But by that logic, Turaga Lhikan would be dead, as his kanohi was removed and provided to Jaller.

I'm a little confused by what you're saying, but if you mean that Kanohi are what the RS can lock onto the body by in order to teleport it up, might this explain why Rahi had masks on? I've always thought it seemed strange the Kraata could just go around infecting masks that just happened to be on so many Rahi species.Maybe the ones with Kanohi were the ones Mata Nui had deemed essential and thus needing revived.The reason your post confused me though is that if Skakdi had a purpose enough to be revived, why wouldn't they wear masks by that thinking? So maybe I misunderstood you. It's possible both are true, though -- that a mask is a lock-on function, but that this isn't necessary but just makes it more efficient.

[onionfarb]

After reading this topic (http://www.bzpower.com/board/index.php?showtopic=7233), somebody has probably brought this up before, but what if the City of Silver Pocket dimension is the Red Star? The RS certainly fits the description of a pocket dimension, and there are Kestora in there.... And, I mean, I think that would be the only reason why Greg would bother introducing the City of Silver, as it just makes things really confusing and raises a whole lot of questions. (What's with the Spectral Hau?)