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A couple of Q's on Kanohi...


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So, a few questions regarding the Kanohi masks have been circulating in my head for a while, and I thought I'd address them here, for the fine folk of BZP to discuss. :)First of all, if a Kanohi mask can be forged in any shape (thank God for that), is there like a strict (inbuilt?) algorithm that dictates what a given Kanohi mask would look like when it turns from Great to Noble? If so, is it connected only to the mask's physical shape or does its power also play a role in the process? Say, if someone were to make a Great Kanohi Hau in the shape of a Great Kanohi Huna, and gave it to a Toa who would later become a Turaga, would the Great Hau that looks like a Great Huna become a Noble Hau that looks like a Noble Huna or what? And what if someone made a Great Kanohi Huna in the shape of a Noble Kanohi Huna, what would that look like if it turned Noble? :P Oh, and are there any circumstances that would allow a Noble mask to turn into a Great one?And what are the mechanics of a Kanohi mask being "transformed", i.e. basically undergoing a process that alters it into an entirely different Kanohi? Like in the Inika becoming the Mahri case.Furthermore, if Toa can use powerless/Matoran masks, as well as Great and Noble ones, tapping into each category's full potential, and Matoran have been seen to wear Great and Noble masks, but only being able to use their life-sustaining powers, could a Turaga wearing a Great Kanohi mask technically use it to a "Noble extent"? We've never seen a case like this in the story, but I think it would make sense.Moving on, Kanohi Nuva are formed by regular masks being exposed to EP, right? So I take it the Kanohi Nuva would also be split into several categories? Say, if a Turaga were destined to become a Turaga Nuva (or, more easily, if an already existing Toa Nuva became a Turaga), their masks would become Noble Nuva masks, correct? Which means pretty much Noble Kanohi that the wearer could share with those among them? But can only a "Nuva" being utilize a Kanohi Nuva, and if not, to what extent would a regular Kanohi-wearing being be able to actually use a Kanohi Nuva?The other thing that's been bothering me is, whatever is exposed to EP would either perish or transform, depending on its destiny (or lack thereof?), right? So what if I hypothetically came across the Kanohi Vahi, and tossed it into a pool of Energized Protodermis? What do you guys think the consequences would be in either scenario?EDIT: Hm, I just read on BS01 that the Kanohi Ignika could revert/restore a Turaga back to a Toa, so that's the perfect prerequisite for a Noble mask becoming Great.

Edited by Surreality
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  1. The mask will look like whatever the wearer imagines the Noble version would look like, sort of like how Matoran turn into their idea of a Toa.
  2. The Ignika replaces the mask by changing the energy inside and mutating its shape.
  3. Probably.
  4. It would probably function as a normal Great Mask.
  5. The Vahi is not destined to transform, it is destroyed, time gets screwed up.

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So, a few questions regarding the Kanohi masks have been circulating in my head for a while, and I thought I'd address them here, for the fine folk of BZP to discuss. :)First of all, if a Kanohi mask can be forged in any shape (thank God for that), is there like a strict (inbuilt?) algorithm that dictates what a given Kanohi mask would look like when it turns from Great to Noble? If so, is it connected only to the mask's physical shape or does its power also play a role in the process? Say, if someone were to make a Great Kanohi Hau in the shape of a Great Kanohi Huna, and gave it to a Toa who would later become a Turaga, would the Great Hau that looks like a Great Huna become a Noble Hau that looks like a Noble Huna or what? And what if someone made a Great Kanohi Huna in the shape of a Noble Kanohi Huna, what would that look like if it turned Noble? :P Oh, and are there any circumstances that would allow a Noble mask to turn into a Great one?And what are the mechanics of a Kanohi mask being "transformed", i.e. basically undergoing a process that alters it into an entirely different Kanohi? Like in the Inika becoming the Mahri case.Furthermore, if Toa can use powerless/Matoran masks, as well as Great and Noble ones, tapping into each category's full potential, and Matoran have been seen to wear Great and Noble masks, but only being able to use their life-sustaining powers, could a Turaga wearing a Great Kanohi mask technically use it to a "Noble extent"? We've never seen a case like this in the story, but I think it would make sense.Moving on, Kanohi Nuva are formed by regular masks being exposed to EP, right? So I take it the Kanohi Nuva would also be split into several categories? Say, if a Turaga were destined to become a Turaga Nuva (or, more easily, if an already existing Toa Nuva became a Turaga), their masks would become Noble Nuva masks, correct? Which means pretty much Noble Kanohi that the wearer could share with those among them? But can only a "Nuva" being utilize a Kanohi Nuva, and if not, to what extent would a regular Kanohi-wearing being be able to actually use a Kanohi Nuva?The other thing that's been bothering me is, whatever is exposed to EP would either perish or transform, depending on its destiny (or lack thereof?), right? So what if I hypothetically came across the Kanohi Vahi, and tossed it into a pool of Energized Protodermis? What do you guys think the consequences would be in either scenario?
1. Normally, the Noble shape is some variation of the Great shape, so it will look more or less like a regional or ceremonial variety if it changes to a Noble version and vice versa. If the user doesn't know the Noble shape, it mostly it revolves around the imagination of what such a mask would look like. With ceremonial varieties, it gets weird - Norik's Peheuki is shaped like a Noble Kiril, for instance. In that case, we simply don't know. As for the last bit, a Noble Kanohi being worn by a Matoran would change into a Great Kanohi upon their transformation into a Toa.2. Well, the Ignika basically changed the structure of the Inika's bodies - it removed their lightning powers, glowing faces, organic Kanohi, etc. Because it can grant or remove powers, it changed the organic Kanohi into regular Kanohi with powers that would work better underwater, basically. The Ignika is really the only known thing that can change Kanohi powers.3. Well, any Kanohi can be worn by a Matoran, Turaga, or Toa to keep them alive. However, the actual power is based on mental will and control, so it couldn't happen. A Great mask has a barrier that prevents Turaga and Matoran from using its power to any extent, and a Noble mask has the barrier only set to prevent Matoran from using it. However, theoretically a Noble mask could become more powerful, insofar as a user becomes really skilled at using its power. For example, a person who has used a Noble Komau for a while would be able to utilize its mind control more effectively.4. Kanohi Nuva are formed that way if it is their destiny, yes. They follow all basic Great-Noble-Powerless rules so in theory, Noble Nuva masks could exist if Artakha (the only person known to be able to make them) made them, if Turaga were transformed into Nuva, or if the Toa Nuva became Turaga. Nuva masks can basically grant a power, controlled by the user, to any being in a close radius - I would assume the range would shrink a bit in a Noble version, but it would retain that capability. Only Nuva can access their power directly by wearing and using the,, however.5. Well, it could either be destroyed or be transformed into the Vahi Nuva, depending on destiny. In the former, time would collapse inside the remnants of the Great Spirit Robot - in the latter, nothing special would happen other than gaining more power and restrictions as the mask wasn't destroyed in the process. However, it is not destined to transform.Hope these helped.-TN05 Edited by Toa Nidhiki05
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1. Pure speculation here, but i think that much of that would be up to the mask maker. Certain shapes may focus certain powers better, just like certain building shapes serve certain functions better. The archietect in this case would have to mold the building to its purpose, much like a mask maker would have to mold the mask to its purpose.2. I believe that was due to the exposure with the mutant water of Mahri Nui. Basically, it's the same reason why the Toa themselves changed.3. That may be theorhetically possible, but the mask's power might overwhelm the Turaga.4. I think that any Toa could use a Nuva mask (not entirely sure on this). As for Turaga using this property of the masks, I would guess no, but I'm not sure.5. The Vahi would transform into whatever. If it's destroyed then it would screw up time like in Time Trap. We have no way of knowing what it would transform into. Fanfic bait perhaps?-don't touch my pocket protector

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As for the last bit, a Noble Kanohi being worn by a Matoran would change into a Great Kanohi upon their transformation into a Toa.
Good point, but would the power remain the same? I think Jaller was wearing a Noble Hau (which inexplicably looked like a Great Hau; any ideas on that?) until he became a Toa Inika and it was transformed into a Great Calix. And that was just the mask's first transformation, power-wise.
The Ignika is really the only known thing that can change Kanohi powers.
And the Red Star, perhaps? *points at above example*
As for Turaga using this property of the masks, I would guess no, but I'm not sure.
Yes, good thinking. What would happen if a regular Turaga put on a Great Nuva mask, provided a Turaga could tap into a Great mask's abilities. Speaking of which, is that "barrier" thing confirmed?
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As for the last bit, a Noble Kanohi being worn by a Matoran would change into a Great Kanohi upon their transformation into a Toa.
Good point, but would the power remain the same? I think Jaller was wearing a Noble Hau (which inexplicably looked like a Great Hau; any ideas on that?) until he became a Toa Inika and it was transformed into a Great Calix. And that was just the mask's first transformation, power-wise.
The Ignika is really the only known thing that can change Kanohi powers.
And the Red Star, perhaps? *points at above example*
As for Turaga using this property of the masks, I would guess no, but I'm not sure.
Yes, good thinking. What would happen if a regular Turaga put on a Great Nuva mask, provided a Turaga could tap into a Great mask's abilities. Speaking of which, is that "barrier" thing confirmed?
The Inika had their old Kanohi taken away in Karzahni, actually - Karzahni would take them away to strip Matoran of their old lives and identities. :)As for the barrier, it is a mental one - all Turaga and Matoran lack the mental ability to use Great Masks, and all Matoran lack the ability to use any. It is in the BIONICLE Dictionary somewhere.-TN05
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Yeah, that pretty much covers it.One thing I'm unsure of- since Artahka created the collectible Nuva masks, does that imply that a whole lot of random basic Great Kanohi were destined to become Nuva masks?Also, hmm... Do I smell a Vahi Nuva somewhere in the works? :lol:

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Yeah, that pretty much covers it.One thing I'm unsure of- since Artahka created the collectible Nuva masks, does that imply that a whole lot of random basic Great Kanohi were destined to become Nuva masks?Also, hmm... Do I smell a Vahi Nuva somewhere in the works? :lol:
No, Artahka selected the Kanohi that were destined to belong to the Nuva.

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First of all, if a Kanohi mask can be forged in any shape (thank God for that), is there like a strict (inbuilt?) algorithm that dictates what a given Kanohi mask would look like when it turns from Great to Noble?
Pretty sure Dralcax's answer to this is right, although I have theorized re: my Cyberclay theory that it may be a bit of both; that there is a basic library of the currently accepted shapes that has been inducted into the actual protodermis coding, but that their mental image may possibly affect it as well (allowing wiggle room for possible set deviations from the norm, though I don't think this was ever needed).
If so, is it connected only to the mask's physical shape or does its power also play a role in the process? Say, if someone were to make a Great Kanohi Hau in the shape of a Great Kanohi Huna, and gave it to a Toa who would later become a Turaga, would the Great Hau that looks like a Great Huna become a Noble Hau that looks like a Noble Huna or what?
We don't really know. By my cyberclay theory it would most likely turn into a standard Noble Hau shape, but if the person is truly ignorant of the traditional system, or perhaps in the hypothetical case of a Turaga Norik by the honored shapes rule, it may do as you say.
And what if someone made a Great Kanohi Huna in the shape of a Noble Kanohi Huna, what would that look like if it turned Noble?
Either not change at all or change in style re: their mental image or their mental idea that it should somehow differ.
Oh, and are there any circumstances that would allow a Noble mask to turn into a Great one?
Other than the Ignika, none are known. It's much easier to just make a new Great one.
And what are the mechanics of a Kanohi mask being "transformed", i.e. basically undergoing a process that alters it into an entirely different Kanohi? Like in the Inika becoming the Mahri case.
Well, that was the Ignika again. I think Greg may have said it's possible to turn a mask back into a disk -- then you could mix it with other disks to get new powers and turn the result into a mask. But this is of course not really transforming the mask but just using a roundabout way to restart the normal maskmaking process. It all you had was a rather useless mask power, one disk, and the systems needed to make that happen, might be worth it.Not entirely certain he said that would work, though, so don't quote me on it. Well you can quote me on it, just don't-- Okay. :P
Furthermore, if Toa can use powerless/Matoran masks, as well as Great and Noble ones, tapping into each category's full potential, and Matoran have been seen to wear Great and Noble masks, but only being able to use their life-sustaining powers, could a Turaga wearing a Great Kanohi mask technically use it to a "Noble extent"? We've never seen a case like this in the story, but I think it would make sense.
I'm getting the sense, correct if wrong, that you are confusing the consciousness effect with an actual mask power -- you say "use", but that is not a power that they can activate or deactivate. It is an automatic effect when they "wear" the mask, requiring no focus whatsoever. It isn't comparable to the usage of actual mask powers. (I say this because I've encountered this common misconception often, mainly, not sure if it's true of you.)TN05 answered the rest of this; short answer no.
Moving on, Kanohi Nuva are formed by regular masks being exposed to EP, right? So I take it the Kanohi Nuva would also be split into several categories? Say, if a Turaga were destined to become a Turaga Nuva (or, more easily, if an already existing Toa Nuva became a Turaga), their masks would become Noble Nuva masks, correct?
Yes.
But can only a "Nuva" being utilize a Kanohi Nuva
Correct.
The other thing that's been bothering me is, whatever is exposed to EP would either perish or transform, depending on its destiny (or lack thereof?), right? So what if I hypothetically came across the Kanohi Vahi, and tossed it into a pool of Energized Protodermis? What do you guys think the consequences would be in either scenario?
I can answer definitely what would happen if it was destroyed because for another topic I just searched a bunch of Greg quotes about the Vahi, and he confirmed that there is no safe way to destroy it. In another quote he confirmed that at least the basic idea of what Vakama described in Time Trap is accurate, so that. :)As for transformed, no way to predict.
As for the last bit, a Noble Kanohi being worn by a Matoran would change into a Great Kanohi upon their transformation into a Toa.
Good point, but would the power remain the same? I think Jaller was wearing a Noble Hau (which inexplicably looked like a Great Hau; any ideas on that?) until he became a Toa Inika and it was transformed into a Great Calix. And that was just the mask's first transformation, power-wise.
To add to TN05's answer, yes, the power (identity, not level) would stay the same, and I seem to recall that Greg gave an answer on the Great Hau appearance of the Noble mask. As for what that answer is, I forget, though. :P
Yes, good thinking. What would happen if a regular Turaga put on a Great Nuva mask, provided a Turaga could tap into a Great mask's abilities.
It would function to keep them fully conscious, and that's it. :)

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The Ignika seems like a do-anything device, but I like to think that it was only able to transform the Inika's masks into different ones was because their original Great Kanohi were organic and alive. So the Ignika used its life power to transform the creatures that were organic creatures into non-living regular Kanohi.As for the transformation of Noble Masks, I really don't know. It kind of goes along with my question of what determines what Turaga look like. I asked Greg, and he just said (paraphrased) 'we never really thought about that'. But I also like the idea that the shape a mask takes is an independent thing programmed into the mask when it's forged.

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