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Is Teridax the best villain ever?

Teridax villain comparison

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113 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Takanuvainika

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 05:44 PM

IS it just me or does Teridax outrank every other villain just with his shear power and cunning, and I'm not just talking about other Bionicle villains I mean ANY other villain, he had false defeats, backup plans, he planted false information, and nobody even knew what his real plan was until it was to late, he basically manipulated everybody until he ruled the universe, plus he had an epic defeat, can any other villain even compare to that?
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#2 Offline Makuta_of_Oz

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 06:05 PM

Yes Teridax outranks everybody. :DHis only problem is that he's underappreciated because he's not as well-known as the likes of the Joker or Megatron.
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#3 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 06:10 PM

Hmmmmm....Yesh. :PMaybe Palpatine comes close. He was manipulative and stuff. But the whole planned defeat thing... I dunno. Of course, other strategies and stuff could be just as... what, impressive? How are we even judging it? What about for example the Borg? Just sheer relentlessness and inventiveness, could that count?
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#4 Offline Cee Matrix

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 06:44 PM

Apart from the fact he's... you know... DEAD!
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#5 Offline Biff

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 06:55 PM

I don't know about the best. Loki from The Avengers had some nice plans-inside-plans of his own.
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#6 Offline Ballom

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 07:46 PM

Loki from The Avengers had some nice plans-inside-plans of his own.

As far as I could tell, his plan was mainly "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," so not really.Anyway, is Teridax the best villain in Bionicle? Probably. But the best out of every other villain? Of course not. Also, I'm pretty sure the average barber would outrank Terry in terms of shear power anyway. :P~B~

Edited by Ballom, Oct 14 2012 - 07:46 PM.

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#7 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 07:54 PM

Loki from The Avengers had some nice plans-inside-plans of his own.

As far as I could tell, his plan was mainly "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," so not really.Anyway, is Teridax the best villain in Bionicle? Probably. But the best out of every other villain? Of course not. Also, I'm pretty sure the average barber would outrank Terry in terms of shear power anyway. :P~B~

Has there been more than one barber villain? :PAaaanywho, Loki did have some clever deceptions/manipulations, although I admit I've pretty much forgotten what they were lol.

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#8 Offline LewaLew

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 07:55 PM

Bias, much, everyone?I wouldn't give Teridax that much credit, but for a villain in a nine-year toy line, he is pretty awesome.
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#9 Online Sundowner

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 07:58 PM

Teridax is a great Bionicle villain, compared to other villains not so much. While Loki's plan was indeed "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," he did manage to get the avengers to fight each other and used their personalities against them. Teridax could only do that with a rahkshi that made Tahu mad (not really an accomplishment). Aslo Teridax is nothing compared to the Dark Knight's Joker (or DCU Joker) and Dark Knight Rises' Bane.
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#10 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 08:40 PM

Yes. :)Teridax is personally my favorite villain of all time. Of course, the question of the topic should be more specific. Best villain based on what? Intelligence? Power? Character? Backstory? Teridax is just epic for so many reasons. I don't think there are many villains who concocted an 80,000 year-long plan that actually worked. Plus, Teridax was fun to read about; he has a lot of great quotes.

While Loki's plan was indeed "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," he did manage to get the avengers to fight each other and used their personalities against them. Teridax could only do that with a rahkshi that made Tahu mad (not really an accomplishment).

But then, did Teridax really need to do that? His goal was for the Toa to succeed after all.

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#11 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 09:58 PM

Saint dane. his plans had plans. and those plans had plans of their own. on top of the fact that he constantly pulls the twisted mind game of: "I'm not the bad guy, you are." and very well at that. and the: "if you kill me, I win. If you don't kill me, I win." game.was it Eelong when he brought the virus from cloral to disrupt the food chain? no matter what the travelers did it was wrong. terridex ranks well on bionicle's scale. but there will always be a special (but twisted) part of me that respects saint dane for being awesome.
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#12 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 10:19 PM

*wonders who Saint Dane is, wikis, reads the word "Smoke", and thinks of the obvious answer he forgot*Smoke Monster! The whole Flocke thing, etc. A candidate, anyways. :shrugs: Of course, it was less obvious until near the end that he even was the main villain or a villain at all.
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#13 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Oct 14 2012 - 10:28 PM

saint dane is the main bad guy from a book series called pendragon. best book series I've ever read. and that's saying alot.
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#14 Offline ~The 1st Shadow~

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 12:09 AM

Teridax is definitely one of the best, in my opinion. I have a villain in my own works that was based off of Teridax, but there's no way he'll ever compare.

While Loki's plan was indeed "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," he did manage to get the avengers to fight each other and used their personalities against them. Teridax could only do that with a rahkshi that made Tahu mad (not really an accomplishment).

Loki was actually really awesome in The Avengers. The only thing I think that Loki had over Terry is that he accomplished his goals in a few days where Teridax required entire centuries to come out on top.And, yeah, as toa kopaka4372 said, Teridax wanted the Toa Nuva to succeed. Playing with their weaknesses and emotions through pawns was to show that he could waste his power on them himself, realizing that he was infinitely more powerful than just a handful of Rahkshi. A display of a fraction of his power through pawns was supposed to drive them harder to achieve their destiny of waking up Mata Nui. Thus, giving him exactly what he wanted. To agree with the masses here, I have encountered very few villains in the various media over the years that could even attempt to compare to Teridax. Posted Image

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#15 Offline Toa Smoke Monster

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 12:19 AM

I think it depends on the individuals opinion. Some people would say he was the greatest villain ever. Others will say the opposite. I personally think that he was a great villain, but not the greatest one ever. Look at some of the DBZ villains, like Frieza or Cell. Both of them could easily destroy a planet and not even break a sweat from it. (Or need a 40 million foot tall robot to do it either.) Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars started a civil war to help him take over the universe. The Joker from TDK manipulated everyone else in the movie and caused chaos in Gotham. Villain like these are, IMO, are better than Teridax.
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#16 Offline Kahi

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 02:34 AM

Depends on whether you mean villain or antagonists; there's been plenty of antiheroes/antivillains in popular media. That being said, Teridax was a very good villain, at least as a functioning Big Bad for the franchise, though I wouldn't say that he was the best one. His motives sort of strayed the more the story went on. At first, he was jealous of Mata Nui (who we assumed was just another being like Teridax at the time), but then decided to launch a plan to take over Mata Nui. That worked, but once he became Mata Nui it was kind of moot because he revealed who he was and no one really worshiped him at all and instead just fought him. And then he decided that he was just going to destroy other worlds and stuff because he could and he was a giant robot. I think, at least. Like I said, it got kind of confusing.There's definitely been better villains in popular media, though. In terms of manipulation and planning, Watchmen's Ozymandias has a good backing, and Doctor Doom's master plan in Secret War led him to basically achieving what Teridax ultimately did. As a comic fan, those are the ones that pop straight into my mind, but [another site] has a ton of examples listed in the Chessmaster and XanatosGambit articles. Teridax does stand pretty well though; he's above many kid's villains today, but I wouldn't necessarily go about saying that he's the best, no.Honestly, I would have loved to see Tuyet be developed more and fleshed out. Its really the fact that she is sort of right that kind of makes her character compelling. Obviously, she's going about it the wrong way, but the fact is that after all is said and done the Toa are really just glorified janitors who have to wait until someone makes a mess before they can clean it up if they stick that close to the Code.

Edited by bonesiii, Oct 15 2012 - 02:47 AM.
That site has forums and thus cannot be mentioned here. -bones

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#17 Offline KlakWest

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 02:43 AM

Best villain in Bionicle? Most definitely. Best villain ever? I don't think so. He definitely deserves an honorary mention, especially since he is technically the villain of a toyline (who happens to be extremely cunning, powerful, intelligent, evil, and practically won), maybe alongside Megatron or David Xanatos, but certainly not the likes of the Joker in terms of recognition or depth.In terms of power, he definitely outranks many well known villains, probably being able to go toe-to-toe with Anti-Monitor and others (Post-MU takeover, not pre-takeover.)

Edited by KlakWest, Oct 15 2012 - 02:44 AM.

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#18 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 02:46 AM

His motives sort of strayed the more the story went on. At first, he was jealous of Mata Nui (who we assumed was just another being like Teridax at the time), but then decided to launch a plan to take over Mata Nui. That worked, but once he became Mata Nui it was kind of moot because he revealed who he was and no one really worshiped him at all and instead just fought him. And then he decided that he was just going to destroy other worlds and stuff because he could and he was a giant robot. I think, at least. Like I said, it got kind of confusing.

Well, the later story made it clear he wanted to remove the threat Mata Nui might pose to him later if allowed to do whatever he could. He had to wait a while to settle down the internal fighting, then he went there. That was stated somewhere.Earlier his motives were mysterious, but isn't that a good thing? It's a mystery story, so it's highly fitting that the main villain is mysterious. :)Also, it's normal for a villain to have other ambitions once he gains great power. What greedy mastermind would want to just settle down on Aqua Magna as a giant staring at fish or whatever? :P He would want to use that power for something. Not really sure if he planned that far ahead; it would fit his character, but on the other hand, attaining such power is so hugely ambitious it might have been something he just figured he'd play by ear. Anyways, likely IMO he would have went back to the alien planets Mata Nui studied to conquer.

in terms of recognition

I think it's pretty clear he's not talking about that. :) And really, is that fair? If Joker wasn't known by anybody but a niche audience, he'd still be the same character.Actually, with Joker, a problem for me with that is that he has had such a wackily wide variety of portrayals, other than just picking the obvious best in the recent movies there's no real way to pin down "the" Joker. Until those movies I could only think of him as a hopelessly cheesy villain from that silly TV show lol. Teridax got a little cheesy sometimes too, but it was always the same character in a continuum, with a cohesive plan of vast scope. And even in the movie, isn't he really just a glorified addict of destruction? Smart, but there's no real ambition or anything unpredictable on a large scale -- it's pretty much clear he'll kill and destroy, etc. lol. I always feel like he's overhyped, and in any realistic world everybody would simply agree... yeah, Batman, that's a case where capital punishment by superhero is totally justified lol. :shrugs:

Edited by bonesiii, Oct 15 2012 - 02:57 AM.

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#19 Offline TheSkeletonMan939

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 05:43 AM

No. Not even close. Ch'Rell, the Utrom Shredder from the TMNT, is the greatest villain in the world. He tried to eradicate every TMNT team in the entire multiverse, and came this close to doing it.

Edited by TheSkeletonMan939, Oct 15 2012 - 05:45 AM.

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#20 Offline VoxuChro

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 05:46 AM

Well yes in my opinion Teridax is probably the best villian in the whole of bionicle. the only other one i can think of i think comes close would be Roodaka. i mean in the whole story she is like our most evil female character probably even more than gorast.Now of all villains in my opinion one that comes close or may surpass is the almighty Sephiroth.
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#21 Offline fishers64

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 06:37 AM

I think the "planned defeats" concept is unique to Teridax. I've often seen villains in various media claim that they planned their defeats for comic effect (they obviously did not), and so I think it is a credit to him that he actually did plan each of his defeats...and didn't say anything about it.The only other villain strategy that might be more effective is the "I'm going to befriend the protagonist and secretly work behind his back to betray him" strategy. I've seen that one toyed with in various works over the years with various degrees of sucess - I think that one, when done well by the villain in question, has a slightly greater effect on the audience. But that may be just me.Palpatine...er, maybe. Kind of like what I just said, except for duping an entire society instead of the protagonist. That plan is credit-worthy. But then he goes back to the Standard Villain Technique of building the Super Mega Weapon that will take down All Good Guys and be Unstoppable. Teridax took over his Super Mega Weapon, but he did it himself instead of sitting around and making his evil minions do the work. (The fact that he had evil minions to do the work, and he actually could make them do it might be pluses...but he put too much trust in them, which got him fried in the end.) Teridax got fried in the end for much of the same reasons, however. Pride goes before a fall. :PAnd Loki seemed a bit on the simple side. I don't really think he cared that he had gotten in jail, since the Doctor was already brainwashed. He was just using his manipulative powers to get out so he could watch his army of flying metal centipedes take over the universe. For fun. Loki is the Norse god of mischief, not destruction.
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#22 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 09:48 AM

I think the "planned defeats" concept is unique to Teridax. I've often seen villains in various media claim that they planned their defeats for comic effect (they obviously did not), and so I think it is a credit to him that he actually did plan each of his defeats...and didn't say anything about it.The only other villain strategy that might be more effective is the "I'm going to befriend the protagonist and secretly work behind his back to betray him" strategy. I've seen that one toyed with in various works over the years with various degrees of sucess - I think that one, when done well by the villain in question, has a slightly greater effect on the audience. But that may be just me.Palpatine...er, maybe. Kind of like what I just said, except for duping an entire society instead of the protagonist. That plan is credit-worthy. But then he goes back to the Standard Villain Technique of building the Super Mega Weapon that will take down All Good Guys and be Unstoppable. Teridax took over his Super Mega Weapon, but he did it himself instead of sitting around and making his evil minions do the work. (The fact that he had evil minions to do the work, and he actually could make them do it might be pluses...but he put too much trust in them, which got him fried in the end.) Teridax got fried in the end for much of the same reasons, however. Pride goes before a fall. :PAnd Loki seemed a bit on the simple side. I don't really think he cared that he had gotten in jail, since the Doctor was already brainwashed. He was just using his manipulative powers to get out so he could watch his army of flying metal centipedes take over the universe. For fun. Loki is the Norse god of mischief, not destruction.

I think most of, If not all of what you mentioned can be mirrored by saint dane. He took form as someone that had major influence on the plot. But no one had any clue as they had found out his identity. Or so they thought. I think he pulls the other one too, but I would have to check.

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#23 Offline fishers64

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 10:51 AM

I think the "planned defeats" concept is unique to Teridax. I've often seen villains in various media claim that they planned their defeats for comic effect (they obviously did not), and so I think it is a credit to him that he actually did plan each of his defeats...and didn't say anything about it.The only other villain strategy that might be more effective is the "I'm going to befriend the protagonist and secretly work behind his back to betray him" strategy. I've seen that one toyed with in various works over the years with various degrees of sucess - I think that one, when done well by the villain in question, has a slightly greater effect on the audience. But that may be just me.Palpatine...er, maybe. Kind of like what I just said, except for duping an entire society instead of the protagonist. That plan is credit-worthy. But then he goes back to the Standard Villain Technique of building the Super Mega Weapon that will take down All Good Guys and be Unstoppable. Teridax took over his Super Mega Weapon, but he did it himself instead of sitting around and making his evil minions do the work. (The fact that he had evil minions to do the work, and he actually could make them do it might be pluses...but he put too much trust in them, which got him fried in the end.) Teridax got fried in the end for much of the same reasons, however. Pride goes before a fall. :PAnd Loki seemed a bit on the simple side. I don't really think he cared that he had gotten in jail, since the Doctor was already brainwashed. He was just using his manipulative powers to get out so he could watch his army of flying metal centipedes take over the universe. For fun. Loki is the Norse god of mischief, not destruction.

I think most of, If not all of what you mentioned can be mirrored by saint dane. He took form as someone that had major influence on the plot. But no one had any clue as they had found out his identity. Or so they thought. I think he pulls the other one too, but I would have to check.

*looks it up*I am not familiar with the character, as I have not read the series in question. *adds to "books to investigate and possibly read" list*

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#24 Offline Darkon219

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 12:24 PM

You gotta be kidding me! Teridaks is such a mastermind.

Edited by bonesiii, Oct 15 2012 - 02:08 PM.
Okay, no need for flaming... Which is against the rules. :) -bones

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#25 Offline Tahu Nuva 3.0

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 01:15 PM

Teridax is definitely up there. He know the secrets of their universe and had the ultimate goal to essentially become a god. Leading uprising, spies, wars, memory-wipes, that would span hundreds of thousands of years, yes I think he is awesome. (Image if he had a death note...)The villains that come close are Roodaka, because of her schemes and endless plans, and The Shadowed One, mainly because he is ancient and has much more to offer. You don't maintain an organization like the Dark Hunters without some crazy plans and fail-safes.
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#26 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 01:56 PM

Well, his plan WASN'T foolproof, because he didn't plan on Mata Nui returning to defeat him. But then again, they say he has a backup plan even for breakfast. So, I would say that he ranks among them.
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#27 Offline Alex Turner

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 02:00 PM

Teridax is definitely on par if not better than many more well-known and popular villains, but he is certainly not the best. He batters all the Bionicle villains though (except maybe The Shadowed One since we know hardly anything about him).Just gonna say I think the Daleks, or more specifically, Davros, are/is the best villain/s ever. I mean seriously, they moved 27 planets across space and time to form a bomb that could destroy reality itself. They only got defeated when some meta-crisis shenanigans happened and someone blew them up (that someone had their memory fried as a result). Teridax got killed by a piece of a moon (and it wasn't even a whole moon!).oh, and they did some other stuff too but yeah
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#28 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 04:23 PM

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.Yes. Why?He succeeded.He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.He is probably one of my heroes...
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#29 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 05:47 PM

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.Yes. Why?He succeeded.He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.He is probably one of my heroes...

no. I could play the Saint Dane card. again. but I won't. (I need to read that series again, its a bit blurry.) (but if I did he did succeed in his final plan. for a little bit. along with eradicating the only force that could stop him. for a little bit.)garmadons original plan was to escape his prison, and he did that. did he not?

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#30 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 06:09 PM

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.Yes. Why?He succeeded.He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.He is probably one of my heroes...

no. I could play the Saint Dane card. again. but I won't. (I need to read that series again, its a bit blurry.) (but if I did he did succeed in his final plan. for a little bit. along with eradicating the only force that could stop him. for a little bit.)garmadons original plan was to escape his prison, and he did that. did he not?

I think he meant as ultimate plan, or maybe scale. If you mean escaping prison, loads of people have done it, but Teridax's plan was on a huge scale, and normally villains fail when they try to do something as major as what Teridax did.

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#31 Online Sundowner

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 06:35 PM

While Loki's plan was indeed "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," he did manage to get the avengers to fight each other and used their personalities against them. Teridax could only do that with a rahkshi that made Tahu mad (not really an accomplishment).

Loki was actually really awesome in The Avengers. The only thing I think that Loki had over Terry is that he accomplished his goals in a few days where Teridax required entire centuries to come out on top.And, yeah, as toa kopaka4372 said, Teridax wanted the Toa Nuva to succeed. Playing with their weaknesses and emotions through pawns was to show that he could waste his power on them himself, realizing that he was infinitely more powerful than just a handful of Rahkshi. A display of a fraction of his power through pawns was supposed to drive them harder to achieve their destiny of waking up Mata Nui. Thus, giving him exactly what he wanted.To agree with the masses here, I have encountered very few villains in the various media over the years that could even attempt to compare to Teridax.Posted Image

He failed at stopping them from finding the mask of light and was defeated with rocks (seriously rock crushes him in MoL, rock crushes him in LoMN, and in the end a rock crushed him in the head). Plus after he achieved his plan he sorta got stupid and not arrogant stupid, stupid stupid. He didn't kill Miserix (which he could've done in a multitude of ways without effort), he killed all his Makuta friends (yes I will concede they were shocked by this but you can't fight a giant 40 million foot tall robot that is the universe) and he didn't crush Mata Nui's soul and instead flung it out into space (not meeting Space core sadly)*. The problem with saying he wanted them it that it fells like it was a last minute thought. I mean he only able to succeed through some events that could have easily gone any other direction, like what if the Toa Mahri actually succeeded before Mata Nui Died. Plus I feel his only plan was "Take over universe, destroy 1/19 of resistance, ??, PROFIT" what did he plan to do after he took the universe?

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.Yes. Why?He succeeded.He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.He is probably one of my heroes...

I can think of a few villains who've succeeded in implementing their plans. One example may cross into spoiler territory for the DKR so I'll put it into spoilers:
Spoiler
*=With interest to fairness Teridax probably didn't expect his soul to land on a planet that just so happened to have the prototype robot and just thought he'd keep floating in the vastness of SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! (sorry couldn't resist)

Edited by Felix Dzerzhinsky, Oct 15 2012 - 06:40 PM.

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#32 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 06:44 PM

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.Yes. Why?He succeeded.He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.He is probably one of my heroes...

I can think of a few villains who've succeeded in implementing their plans. One example may cross into spoiler territory for the DKR so I'll put it into spoilers:
Spoiler
*=With interest to fairness Teridax probably didn't expect his soul to land on a planet that just so happened to have the prototype robot and just thought he'd keep floating in the vastness of SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! (sorry couldn't resist)

Ok, I'll give you the bit in the spoiler, but technicaly it wasn't his plan (the guy in the spoiler) it was originaly what's-his-name's from the first one.

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#33 Offline Takanuvainika

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 07:30 PM

I didn't know this was such a controversial subject, and imo Teridax lost some points for not getting rid of Mata-Nui better but the only battles he actually lost were secondary goals like the mask of time and the nui-stone, and of course he lost the final battle but so does every villain, does Saint Dane have that kind of record?
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#34 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 07:55 PM

While Loki's plan was indeed "Summon army, ??, PROFIT," he did manage to get the avengers to fight each other and used their personalities against them. Teridax could only do that with a rahkshi that made Tahu mad (not really an accomplishment).

Loki was actually really awesome in The Avengers. The only thing I think that Loki had over Terry is that he accomplished his goals in a few days where Teridax required entire centuries to come out on top.And, yeah, as toa kopaka4372 said, Teridax wanted the Toa Nuva to succeed. Playing with their weaknesses and emotions through pawns was to show that he could waste his power on them himself, realizing that he was infinitely more powerful than just a handful of Rahkshi. A display of a fraction of his power through pawns was supposed to drive them harder to achieve their destiny of waking up Mata Nui. Thus, giving him exactly what he wanted.To agree with the masses here, I have encountered very few villains in the various media over the years that could even attempt to compare to Teridax.Posted Image

He failed at stopping them from finding the mask of light and was defeated with rocks (seriously rock crushes him in MoL, rock crushes him in LoMN, and in the end a rock crushed him in the head). Plus after he achieved his plan he sorta got stupid and not arrogant stupid, stupid stupid. He didn't kill Miserix (which he could've done in a multitude of ways without effort), he killed all his Makuta friends (yes I will concede they were shocked by this but you can't fight a giant 40 million foot tall robot that is the universe) and he didn't crush Mata Nui's soul and instead flung it out into space (not meeting Space core sadly)*. The problem with saying he wanted them it that it fells like it was a last minute thought. I mean he only able to succeed through some events that could have easily gone any other direction, like what if the Toa Mahri actually succeeded before Mata Nui Died. Plus I feel his only plan was "Take over universe, destroy 1/19 of resistance, ??, PROFIT" what did he plan to do after he took the universe?

I had to think about this for all of 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.Yes. Why?He succeeded.He is the only villain in fiction (and real life for what I can think of) who succeeded in his plan. He took over the universe.He is probably one of my heroes...

I can think of a few villains who've succeeded in implementing their plans. One example may cross into spoiler territory for the DKR so I'll put it into spoilers:
Spoiler
*=With interest to fairness Teridax probably didn't expect his soul to land on a planet that just so happened to have the prototype robot and just thought he'd keep floating in the vastness of SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE! (sorry couldn't resist)

Teridax in MoL let himself be crushed; Takanuva was shown to have doubts about his 'victory' in Dark Destiny. As for LoMN, yeah that whole fight with Vakama wasn't like Teridax at all; I blame the movie makers :PAs for Teridax's 'failings'... Teridax knew that A toa of Light would come into existence someday; it was carved into the wall that had the details of the Plan on it that Zaktan found in Legacy of Evil. Teridax had a habit of pursuing small side-goals because they might help them someway in the future; The Avohkii was one of those things. Teridax failed to get the Nui Stone, sure, he didn't get the Vahi, and he didn't get the Avohkii either... but none of these are really failings; Teridax only bothered with them because they interested him, but he didn't try too hard and ultimately they had no effect on his main goal, which was taking over the universe.Same for Teridax's failure to killl Misterix. Teridax correctly predicted that nothing Miserix did would harm him; he was right, since Miserix played absolutely no part in his downfall. With all his power and sadistic tendencies, he just toyed with people, brainwashing the Toa Hagah and casting Miserix into an illusion he couldn't break out of, which arguably was basically murder. But yes, Teridax became a bit cockier after his success, but that's to be expected.Also, you're simplifying Teridax's plan; his goal was to take Mata Nui's place so the Matoran can have him as their Great Spirit instead, and his backup if his plot on Metru Nui didn't work was taking over the universe itself, which he did. The things he could do afterwards were basically limitless. The way he achieved his plan was brilliant; he essentially had Mata Nui on the brink of death by casting him asleep, brainwashed the Piraka so he could delay the Toa Inika until the right moment, then interfered directly as Maxilos to help the Toa Mahri and fight the Barraki. Once Mata Nui died and was revived, he simply projected his spirit in his place. Having the Toa nuva doom their universe by achieving their destiny was a sadistically cruel and twisted idea, and that's what he did, simultaneously murdering any potential competition in the future by having the top Makuta get killed in Karda Nui, and allowing the Order of Mata Nui to destroy the rest of the Brotherhood, the most powerful organization in the universe and the one with the most potential to rebel. Really, Teridax's only fatal mistake was not killing Mata Nui once he was in control, and really, Mata Nui's victory over Teridax was only by an extremely narrow margin.

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#35 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 08:00 PM

He failed at stopping them from finding the mask of light and was defeated with rocks (seriously rock crushes him in MoL, rock crushes him in LoMN, and in the end a rock crushed him in the head). Plus after he achieved his plan he sorta got stupid and not arrogant stupid, stupid stupid. He didn't kill Miserix (which he could've done in a multitude of ways without effort), he killed all his Makuta friends (yes I will concede they were shocked by this but you can't fight a giant 40 million foot tall robot that is the universe) and he didn't crush Mata Nui's soul and instead flung it out into space (not meeting Space core sadly)*. The problem with saying he wanted them it that it fells like it was a last minute thought. I mean he only able to succeed through some events that could have easily gone any other direction, like what if the Toa Mahri actually succeeded before Mata Nui Died. Plus I feel his only plan was "Take over universe, destroy 1/19 of resistance, ??, PROFIT" what did he plan to do after he took the universe?

Some nitpicks. Like I've said, Teridax likely planned to go on to conquer alien worlds or whatever. We did hear a bit of thought from him along those lines if memserves.The MoL 'defeat' is actually one of the prime examples of his planned defeats. I agree there is irony in that he often gets hit with rocks, probably intentional foreshadowing.The LoMN one was just a little mistake, probably not planned (but again good foreshadowing).What was stupid about after he achieved his plan? He did everything with the best strategy he could -- he simply could not stand up to the combined efforts of all those who stood up for what was right. He really did have to wait a bit to focus inside and ensure he kept his hold, and the longer he waited to kill Mata Nui, the more powerful his enemy would become, so as soon as he reasonably could, he went there, and only lost by a hair. Had he been there a little earlier his victory would have been assured.Not killing Miserix -- was this relevant? Maybe I'm forgetting something though.Killing the other Makuta -- well, there are two models for evil conquering. The "keep your helpers" plan I heard about over and over in Mexican History, with countless "hey let's kill the leader to takeover..." then their helpers think, "hey, I'm good at this sorta stuff, maybe I could takeover *kills the one they helped get in office*" That fails. And then there's the Hitler-kill-the-brownshirts model which Teridax employed. He lost too. Really, the ultimate lesson is that evil always fails eventually. But Hitler had a much more secure grasp on his land and surrounding lands that took a whole world war to eradicate (admittedly with some others on his side).There's also the "act more benign" model that some dictator types have used to keep a longer hold, but this works by being (in practice, if not intent) less evil, so the principle still holds.I'm not sure what you mean by this part in parentheses:

he killed all his Makuta friends (yes I will concede they were shocked by this but you can't fight a giant 40 million foot tall robot that is the universe)

@ not killing Mata Nui before exiling him -- the story made it clear there was no other way. He had to use the Mask of Life to transfer the robot's mind out so his could go in, and destroying the Ignika inside him (or near for that matter) is a very bad idea. By contrast, causing a black hole to eat up the planet and the Ignika/Mata Nui with it as he flees is much more practical, and had he not been hit in the head, likely he would have achieved this soon.Pretty sure Mata Nui had to die for Terry to do the mindswitch, but not 100% sure. If not, then he would obviously make sure to keep delaying them until then, which is basically what he did.Not sure what you mean about it feeling last minute or how to judge that. Plan-ahead defeats are about as opposite of "last minute" you can get, so...Edit: Mostly ninja'd! :lol:

Edited by bonesiii, Oct 15 2012 - 08:11 PM.

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#36 Offline Takanuvainika

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 08:09 PM

Toa Kopaka4372 That was the point I was trying to make, I just didn't make it very wellSpeaking of the final battle, just how many times did Mata-Nui use his last ounce of energy?

Edited by Takanuvainika, Oct 15 2012 - 08:09 PM.

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#37 Offline ~Shockwave~

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 08:32 PM

I didn't know this was such a controversial subject, and imo Teridax lost some points for not getting rid of Mata-Nui better but the only battles he actually lost were secondary goals like the mask of time and the nui-stone, and of course he lost the final battle but so does every villain, does Saint Dane have that kind of record?

Saint Dane actually took over the universe. for awhile. he also killed, or had something to do with 10 of the 11 most powerful "people" in the universe, plus some (if not all) of their mentors. not to mention he was a shapeshifter, extremely convincing, and even though he "lost" a fair amount of territory battles, he still did that. not to mention he could travel to any given place, at any given time. making him very, very, hard to kill. and if you did, he could come back.he would literally laugh at makuta, and get away with it.

Edited by <shockwave>, Oct 15 2012 - 08:33 PM.

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#38 Online Sundowner

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 08:39 PM

Man you guys have long posts, can't reply to them to all so I'll just pick on bonesiii :P

He failed at stopping them from finding the mask of light and was defeated with rocks (seriously rock crushes him in MoL, rock crushes him in LoMN, and in the end a rock crushed him in the head). Plus after he achieved his plan he sorta got stupid and not arrogant stupid, stupid stupid. He didn't kill Miserix (which he could've done in a multitude of ways without effort), he killed all his Makuta friends (yes I will concede they were shocked by this but you can't fight a giant 40 million foot tall robot that is the universe) and he didn't crush Mata Nui's soul and instead flung it out into space (not meeting Space core sadly)*. The problem with saying he wanted them it that it fells like it was a last minute thought. I mean he only able to succeed through some events that could have easily gone any other direction, like what if the Toa Mahri actually succeeded before Mata Nui Died. Plus I feel his only plan was "Take over universe, destroy 1/19 of resistance, ??, PROFIT" what did he plan to do after he took the universe?

Some nitpicks. Like I've said, Teridax likely planned to go on to conquer alien worlds or whatever. We did hear a bit of thought from him along those lines if memserves.The MoL 'defeat' is actually one of the prime examples of his planned defeats. I agree there is irony in that he often gets hit with rocks, probably intentional foreshadowing.The LoMN one was just a little mistake, probably not planned (but again good foreshadowing).

Personally I feel it's almost comedic how whenever he dies it involves rocks.

What was stupid about after he achieved his plan? He did everything with the best strategy he could -- he simply could not stand up to the combined efforts of all those who stood up for what was right. He really did have to wait a bit to focus inside and ensure he kept his hold, and the longer he waited to kill Mata Nui, the more powerful his enemy would become, so as soon as he reasonably could, he went there, and only lost by a hair.Not killing Miserix -- was this relevant? Maybe I'm forgetting something though.

It was just that he didn't seem to do much after he took over Mata Nui other than just be some tyrant begging to overthrown. Miserix was utterly pointless sure who was important before Teridax took over, but what did he actually do when he was found other than kill another makuta. Besides the Order wanted him isn't that reason enough to kill Miserix, plus Teribot (Teridax + MU robot) had shown he was willing to kill anyone who opposed him. Why not use Miserix as an example to show he is invincible? I will concede to you about thelonger he waited the more powerful they became.

Killing the other Makuta -- well, there are two models for evil conquering. The "keep your helpers" plan I heard about over and over in Mexican History, with countless "hey let's kill the leader to takeover..." then their helpers think, "hey, I'm good at this sorta stuff, maybe I could takeover *kills the one they helped get in office*" That fails. And then there's the Hitler-kill-the-brownshirts model which Teridax employed. He lost too. Really, the ultimate lesson is that evil always fails eventually. But Hitler had a much more secure grasp on his land and surrounding lands that took a whole world war to eradicate (admittedly with some others on his side).There's also the "act more benign" model that some dictator types have used to keep a longer hold, but this works by being (in practice, if not intent) less evil, so the principle still holds.

Teridax is the Universe, so I think anyone trying to take him out would more than likely be crushed by mountain they were next to them and have to worry about Teridax knowing in advance their plan. So I really think he killed all the Makuta just show how evulz he was, I understand they could've rebelled against him, but that's like you going up against the world's fastest runner in a 5k, your chances of winning against him are slim to none.

I'm not sure what you mean by this part in parentheses:

he killed all his Makuta friends (yes I will concede they were shocked by this but you can't fight a giant 40 million foot tall robot that is the universe)

@ not killing Mata Nui before exiling him -- the story made it clear there was no other way. He had to use the Mask of Life to transfer the robot's mind out so his could go in, and destroying the Ignika inside him (or near for that matter) is a very bad idea.Pretty sure Mata Nui had to die for Terry to do the mindswitch, but not 100% sure. If not, then he would obviously make sure to keep delaying them until then, which is basically what he did.Not sure what you mean about it feeling last minute or how to judge that. Plan-ahead defeats are about as opposite of "last minute" you can get, so...Edit: Mostly ninja'd! :lol:

What I meant was that if any Makuta even thought about opposing Teridax, they'd be a pancake in less than a minute. You got me on my "last minute" comment and yes Teridax did have to wait for Mata Nui to die before he could take over it. My point was Teridax's ultimate plan relied on a lot of variables that could have gone a way he could not have planed. To the point where it becomes absurd.

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#39 Offline Biff

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 08:43 PM

Aaaanywho, Loki did have some clever deceptions/manipulations, although I admit I've pretty much forgotten what they were lol.

Well, he used the hulk to bust out of the flying aircraft carrier and scatter the Avengers.

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#40 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Oct 15 2012 - 09:02 PM

I didn't know this was such a controversial subject, and imo Teridax lost some points for not getting rid of Mata-Nui better but the only battles he actually lost were secondary goals like the mask of time and the nui-stone, and of course he lost the final battle but so does every villain, does Saint Dane have that kind of record?

he would literally laugh at makuta, and get away with it.

Couldn't Makuta laugh at him and get away with it too? He does have teleportation powers too. :P

It was just that he didn't seem to do much after he took over Mata Nui other than just be some tyrant begging to overthrown. Miserix was utterly pointless sure who was important before Teridax took over, but what did he actually do when he was found other than kill another makuta. Besides the Order wanted him isn't that reason enough to kill Miserix, plus Teribot (Teridax + MU robot) had shown he was willing to kill anyone who opposed him. Why not use Miserix as an example to show he is invincible? I will concede to you about thelonger he waited the more powerful they became.

But what did you want him to do. It was made clear in the story that it was taking awhile for Teridax to adapt to his new body and power, and pretty much the entire MU was rebelling, so he hasbusy with that most of the time. Right after that was done he went off to face Mata Nui. Also, killing Miserix woudn't show much; he already showed his invincibility in various other ways (e.g. killing Guardian). In fact, I found how Teridax dealt with Miserix, by onvincing him that he was a painting and those who saw him that he was a painting was cruel and sadistic, and was more effective than if Teridax had simply killed him.Also, about no one having a chance to overthrow Teridax- I'm sure most people thought Mata Nui couldn't be overthrown, and yet he was. Teridax knows better than anyone that you could be brought down from the inside; his actions regarding the Makuta were pretty necessary.(Can I mention being irked that people downsize Teridax having his whole body crushed once and having his head bashed in a 'rock' that's over 300 miles long irksome as merely a 'rock' :P )

Edited by toa kopaka4372, Oct 15 2012 - 09:02 PM.

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