470 replies to this topic

[Makuta Almanax]

Is there any way we could get a list of beings (that we care about) on the red star?

We know it's prett much all the inhabitants within the MU that died with a body. So prett much everyone that dies, except the Makuta, Matoro, etc. But it would include beings like Lhikan, Mavrah(we know that), Sidorak, etc.

Which basically means there's a LOT of re-introductions we'd need.

 

All of the Shadow Matoran except for Vultraz were cured and brought back to Metru Nui (and later relocated to Spherus Magna). Vultraz is currently in an alternate universe being experimented on by Great Beings.

 

I still love the idea of all the cruel and unusual experiments being performed on Vultraz.

 

If a being dies on the Red Star and still has a body, will they still be revived? I'd like to imagine there's a lot of murder on that star.

 

Another question I have is: Matoran have to work in Metru Nui in order for the Great Spirit Robot to function, but are they needed to work anywhere else to keep it running? I'd have considered Karzahni and Artakha to be the 'spleen' of the MU, except Karzahni was abandoned and levelled because of Gali's Nova Blast before the GSR awoke again, so I'm quite unsure.

Edited by Makuta Almanax, Apr 28 2013 - 03:05 AM.

[toa kopaka4372]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]If a being dies on the Red Star and still has a body, will they still be revived? I'd like to imagine there's a lot of murder on that star.[/color]

I don't think so. Look at these part of The Powers That Be:

 

“What are you doing here?” one of the beings asked. “You need to go back. You should be gone by now.”

“No,” said another. “Don’t you remember what happened the last time? They wouldn’t go back and we had to --”

The third interrupted, pointing at Gaardus. “That one has been here before. He was the last. He must know why no one can go now.”

“But look at them!” said the first to speak. “It must be working again, or how could they be here like that?”

The others paused, as if acknowledging their friend had a point. The one who had remembered Gaardus nodded, saying, “Very well. But if it doesn’t work, do we need to end them like the other ones?”

All three little beings produced wicked looking hand weapons. “Naturally,” said the first. “How else are we to make things right?”

 

“Well, they can’t stay here,” said the second firmly. “We have too many as it is.”

“We could keep them,” suggested the third. “Maybe a dissection would tell us why they can’t go back. Of course, we tried that before, and all we wound up with was a mess … a lot of messes, actually … but maybe this time --”

 

These passages imply that the Kestora were murdering a lot of revived people to figure out why they wouldn't go back. Also the "make things right" line implies that the Kestora saw murder as a solution to the problem. It wouldn't make sense for them to revive people whom they wanted dead. So yeah, most likely there's a very large pile of corpses, or whatever's left of them, lying somewhere in the Red Star. Also, it makes sense they'd kill some people to prevent the Star from being overcrowded.

 

Pretty gruesome....

Edited by toa kopaka4372, Apr 28 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Null.]

 

We know it's prett much all the inhabitants within the MU that died with a body. So prett much everyone that dies, except the Makuta, Matoro, etc. But it would include beings like Lhikan, Mavrah(we know that), Sidorak, etc.

Which basically means there's a LOT of re-introductions we'd need.

Yeah, but I mean, which ones have killed each other, been killed by Kestora, etc. is what I'm asking. And also why would Velika bother killing Karzahni if he would just reincarnate on the star?

[Katuko]

Yeah, but I mean, which ones have killed each other, been killed by Kestora, etc. is what I'm asking. And also why would Velika bother killing Karzahni if he would just reincarnate on the star?

I'm guessing that one of the following holds true:1) Velika knows that the Red Star doesn't work properly, and doesn't care what happens to Karzahni after that half-mad being gets stuck on it. if he's been cut off from his fellow GBs and their tech, maybe he even thinks the Star is broken completely and doesn't resurrect anyone; who knows?2) Velika plans to shut down the Red Star completely (or maybe something else with it) in the near future, once every powerful being is stuck on it.3) The teleportation to the Star doesn't work now that the Matoran Universe is down for the count.4) Velika has some way of stopping the corpse teleportation from taking effect. It was easy with Tren Krom, since he couldnt' be resurrected anyways, but with Krazahni the body was left there with a sword in its back.

[Doorman]

^ random. anyways, I have a question: what is protosteel made of, to the molecular level?

[toa kopaka4372]

 

 

We know it's prett much all the inhabitants within the MU that died with a body. So prett much everyone that dies, except the Makuta, Matoro, etc. But it would include beings like Lhikan, Mavrah(we know that), Sidorak, etc.

Which basically means there's a LOT of re-introductions we'd need.

Yeah, but I mean, which ones have killed each other, been killed by Kestora, etc. is what I'm asking. And also why would Velika bother killing Karzahni if he would just reincarnate on the star?

 

If you want a list of characters we know are permanently, 100% dead and not on the Red Star due to that, here's a list of permanently deceased beings:

 

Teridax

Antroz

Vamprah

Chirox

Bitil

Gorast

Krika

Mutran

Icarax

Spiriah

Makuta of Stelt

Kojol

Nidhiki

Matoro

Krekka

Tren Krom

Karzahni (Plant)

Mobuzakh

Lein

Certavus

Jovan

Telluris

Gadunka

Nivawk

Reysa

Ancient

Carapar

 

Looking back on it, most of the characters who have died are still dead, despite the Red Star. People like Kodan and Nikila have uncertain fates, as their way of death is unknown. Really, the only people we have specific confirmation for that are on the Red Star are Lhikan, Botar, Mavrah, and the other Hydraxon. Other characters who did not have their bodies destroyed and could be on the Red Star are still unconfirmed.

 

I'm pretty sure Karzahni (Being) isn't going to the Red Star. I doubt Velika wants the people he killed coming back. He killed Tren Krom permanently easily because he was organic, but I'm not sure what would prevent Karzahni from going to the Red Star. Its possible the teleoprter on the Star is broken both ways, so Karzahni wouldn't go, or that Velika killed him so violently he wasn't sent; it was mentioned Karzahni's corpse was a gruesome sight. 

 

We have no way of knowing who the Kestora killed on the Red Star for now. 

[Dragon.star]

Really, the only people we have specific confirmation for that are on the Red Star are Lhikan, Botar, Mavrah, and the other Hydraxon.

There's also Kopaka, Pohatu, and Gaardus, but they aren't dead and are there for a temporary visit so it doesn't really count. :PAs for Karzahni, he is most likely staying dead as the Red Star was originally meant for the MU and first, it is out of use, and second, Karz was killed out of the MU. Like you said, Jovan wasn't on/in the Star. Why? He died out of the MU. So did Karzahni.

[Toa Of Virtues]

So what's the status on this? When might be the next time Greg may respond?

[Madara: Mangekyou Master]

So what's the status on this? When might be the next time Greg may respond?

When he has time, I would guess. :/

[Vultraz Nuva]

When Greg returns, I would like him to answer these two questions:

 

What happens to Velika and Marendar? Do they get defeated or do they win, and how?

 

What would the power-manifestations of Fa-, Su, Ba-, and Bo-Matoran be?

[Rucks]

When Greg returns, I would like him to answer these two questions:

 

What happens to Velika and Marendar? Do they get defeated or do they win, and how?

 

What would the power-manifestations of Fa-, Su, Ba-, and Bo-Matoran be?

There's no way Greg'll answer that first one. All questions of that kind will just be brushed off with "cannot discuss future storyline".

 

The second one, however. Yeah, I'd like to know the actual answer to that too.

[XONAR]

Hi Greg,

 

When you return, I would really like to know what happened to the Ignika's conscience now that Mata Nui has gone dormant in it. Can two beings live inside the Ignika at one time, or is the Ignika's "spirit" dead? 

 

Also, is it possible that if the Red Star were to be repaired, could it be modified to work everyone now on Spherus Magna?

 

Thanks so much for your time,

MX5

[GallifreyanOrigin]

Hi Greg,

 

When you return, I would really like to know what happened to the Ignika's conscience now that Mata Nui has gone dormant in it. Can two beings live inside the Ignika at one time, or is the Ignika's "spirit" dead? 

 

Also, is it possible that if the Red Star were to be repaired, could it be modified to work everyone now on Spherus Magna?

 

Thanks so much for your time,

MX5

I'm pretty sure that your first question has been asked before (like waaaay back) and that it was established that the Ignika's spirit is merely dormant within the mask, suppressed by Mata Nui's consciousness.

[XONAR]

I'm pretty sure that your first question has been asked before (like waaaay back) and that it was established that the Ignika's spirit is merely dormant within the mask, suppressed by Mata Nui's consciousness.

 

Now that you mention that, I think I remember seeing the answer now. Thanks for reminding me. That's good that Mata Nui didn't kill the Ignika's spirit after "Toa" Ignika gave up its body to save Mata Nui! 

[Kopekemaster]

1: Can you confirm or deny the existence of Greater-than-great Beings? (Beings that created the entire Bionicle Universe)

2: Can a Bionicle die without being killed, meaning dying of old age?

[bonesiii]

1: Can you confirm or deny the existence of Greater-than-great Beings? (Beings that created the entire Bionicle Universe)

2: Can a Bionicle die without being killed, meaning dying of old age?

1) Just to be clear, the beings that fans nicknamed "Greater than Great Beings" or "Greater Beings" were only stated to have made "the Bionicle planet" (and this was back when the only one we knew of was the "Endless Ocean Planet" which we now know as Aqua Magna). Greg confirmed that other beings besides the Great Beings made "the Bionicle planet", but we do not know if this refers to the Element Lords accidentally triggering the Shattering (and they are definitely not greater than the Great Beings, just "other"), or to legitimately greater beings who made Spherus Magna.

 

So the question really should be whether any beings made Spherus Magna. As for creating the entire universe, pretty sure LEGO would not delve into that as that can be controversial.

 

2) Yes, it's confirmed they have maximum lifespans (Lein for example died of old age), but it's not known how old this is. All we know is that some of both the SM and MU groups have lived longer than 100,000 years, so the average person's maximum span has to be longer than that. How much longer is unknown.

Edited by bonesiii, Jun 04 2013 - 09:22 PM.

[Katuko]

2) Yes, it's confirmed they have maximum lifespans (Lein for example died of old age), but it's not known how old this is. All we know is that some of both the SM and MU groups have lived longer than 100,000 years, so the average person's maximum span has to be longer than that. How much longer is unknown.

I imagine that Glatorian and Agori would have a shorter lifespan than MU inhabitants, since they have more organic parts and can therefore not as easily rebuild themselves or use replacement parts. MU inhabitants have also shown an ability to regrow organic that has been detached (the Toa Mata after their stay in the canisters). Then again, others (like Lariska) can apparently not regrow an entirely lost limb....Or maybe that was just because The Shadowed One stopped her from doing so. The webcomic The Order of the Stick has shown that even if you have magic that can regenerate lost organs, it doesn't help if the guy who removed them the first time is still around to threaten you with doing it again. Still, I'd think BIONICLE organics cannot be regrown after enough certain time has passed, or if the original limb is unavailable for reattachment, or if something else is fixed in place. Lariska's arm has to be attached somehow, so likely muscle tissue has grown around the shoulder joint but nowhere else.

[matoran199]

1.) Can Toa of Stone control metamorphic,igneous or sedimentary rock?

 

2.) Where on Spherus Magna is Roodaka currently imprisoned?

[fishers64]

1.) Can Toa of Stone control metamorphic,igneous or sedimentary rock?

 

I thought they could control all three. Stone implies stone, regardless of origin. 

[Lewigi]

I'm wondering how the Dark Hunters kept Odina undiscovered once Vamprah was assigned to the region. After all, he wasn't blind back then.

[bonesiii]

I'm wondering how the Dark Hunters kept Odina undiscovered once Vamprah was assigned to the region. After all, he wasn't blind back then.

The question seems to assume Vamprah had any interest in outing their secrecy. But BS01 says:

 

The Shadowed One soon founded the Dark Hunters and took control of the island of Odina from its original inhabitants. The Hunters began their long campaign of villainy, stealing precious objects, killing Toa, making Turaga disappear, and recruiting new members through mutation, force, and treachery. They struck up a mutually beneficial deal with the Brotherhood of Makuta; the Brotherhood used their talents to modify the Shadowed One's agents to be more powerful and effective, make Rahi, and loan out weapons to them, and the Dark Hunters gladly lent the services of their employees to the Makuta.

 

They were allies, apparently from the earliest of times. So most likely, if anything, Vamprah and the Brotherhood at large helped keep it secret.

Edited by bonesiii, Jun 03 2013 - 05:57 PM.

[Lewigi]

I'm wondering how the Dark Hunters kept Odina undiscovered once Vamprah was assigned to the region. After all, he wasn't blind back then.

The question seems to assume Vamprah had any interest in outing their secrecy. But BS01 says:

 

>The Shadowed One soon founded the Dark Hunters and took control of the island of Odina from its original inhabitants. The Hunters began their long campaign of villainy, stealing precious objects, killing Toa, making Turaga disappear, and recruiting new members through mutation, force, and treachery. They struck up a mutually beneficial deal with the Brotherhood of Makuta; the Brotherhood used their talents to modify the Shadowed One's agents to be more powerful and effective, make Rahi, and loan out weapons to them, and the Dark Hunters gladly lent the services of their employees to the Makuta.

 

They were allies, apparently from the earliest of times. So most likely, if anything, Vamprah and the Brotherhood at large helped keep it secret.

 

What about after the war began? Why didn't they whup up on the Dark Hunters before Teridax took control of the universe? They have the power and the resources, and a reason to do it.

[bonesiii]

Do we know they didn't? Off the top of my head I'm not sure, but regardless, that would be such a tiny percentage of the history (just a thousand years) it probably doesn't matter. By that time nobody else was going to be a serious threat to them, other than the Order which already knew its location via Ancient. Most Toa were dead by then.

[Lewigi]

Do we know they didn't? Off the top of my head I'm not sure, but regardless, that would be such a tiny percentage of the history (just a thousand years) it probably doesn't matter. By that time nobody else was going to be a serious threat to them, other than the Order which already knew its location via Ancient. Most Toa were dead by then.

I'm pretty sure Odina didn't suffer any kind of attack until Teridax used Mata Nui's powers against them. Of course, that's what I want to know. Did the Brotherhood do anything about Odina? And for that matter, has it ever actually been confirmed that Vamprah or the Brotherhood actually knew Odina's location at all? All of their transactions could have been completed through courier, for all we know right now.

[bonesiii]

The Brotherhood wasn't out to end Odina. Teridax pretty much just ate the two DHs out of convenience, and TSO declared war on the Brotherhood. So in the war itself, the DH were the "aggressors" out of outrage. Teridax didn't set out to end the DHs. So basically I see no reason for the Brotherhood to end Odina. Probably Terry hoped it would blow over (possibly on the scale of tens of hundreds of years; remember a thousand is almost nothing) and they'd be useful pawns again. Until then, they would be like gnats against the might of the Brotherhood (and gnats unlikely to get to Destral anyways), not serious threats needing elimination.

 

Dunno if it's confirmed the Brotherhood knew, but hard to imagine they didn't. Especially with the whole Roodaka double agent thing and all that.

Edited by bonesiii, Jun 03 2013 - 08:47 PM.

[Lewigi]

The Brotherhood wasn't out to end Odina. Teridax pretty much just ate the two DHs out of convenience, and TSO declared war on the Brotherhood. So in the war itself, the DH were the "aggressors" out of outrage. Teridax didn't set out to end the DHs. So basically I see no reason for the Brotherhood to end Odina. Probably Terry hoped it would blow over (possibly on the scale of tens of hundreds of years; remember a thousand is almost nothing) and they'd be useful pawns again. Until then, they would be like gnats against the might of the Brotherhood (and gnats unlikely to get to Destral anyways), not serious threats needing elimination.

 

Dunno if it's confirmed the Brotherhood knew, but hard to imagine they didn't. Especially with the whole Roodaka double agent thing and all that.

But they were at war. Granted, the Brotherhood never put all of its assets into it, but how exactly did it factor into Teridax's plan that they should let the war keep going for a thousand years? What was the benefit to it? He more than likely didn't plan for it, considering he did kill Nidhiki and Krekka just to reach the power levels necessary for his Ultimate Dume form. And he didn't seem to need them after he took over, since he easily wiped out Odina and murdered a few more hunters like Guardian.

[bonesiii]

Well first of all, whether there was a significant benefit might be irrelevant, just like we don't hunt down all gnats in the world. (Of course if we could hunt down all mosquitoes we probably would but anywho...)

 

But he probably hoped that once he took over they'd come around and be useful in stifling the few remaining Toa and the like.

[Lewigi]

Well first of all, whether there was a significant benefit might be irrelevant, just like we don't hunt down all gnats in the world. (Of course if we could hunt down all mosquitoes we probably would but anywho...)

 

But he probably hoped that once he took over they'd come around and be useful in stifling the few remaining Toa and the like.

I doubt the Brotherhood considered the Hunters 'gnats'. The Shadowed One and many of his Hunters were fully capable of fighting a Makuta, and at one point had control of a Brotherhood installment containing Teridax's entire plan, that one of them discovered. Fortunately for the Brotherhood, it was Zaktan, and he wasn't about to tell anyone.

 

And your second point makes no sense. Once he was the universe, he used Rahkshi to drive them out of Odina. And why would he want to wipe out the Toa that remained, when it seemed he was having too much fun toying with them? He obviously didn't need or care for the Dark Hunters once he was in control of Mata Nui's body.

[bonesiii]

Well first of all, whether there was a significant benefit might be irrelevant, just like we don't hunt down all gnats in the world. (Of course if we could hunt down all mosquitoes we probably would but anywho...)

 

But he probably hoped that once he took over they'd come around and be useful in stifling the few remaining Toa and the like.

I doubt the Brotherhood considered the Hunters 'gnats'. The Shadowed One and many of his Hunters were fully capable of fighting a Makuta, and at one point had control of a Brotherhood installment containing Teridax's entire plan, that one of them discovered. Fortunately for the Brotherhood, it was Zaktan, and he wasn't about to tell anyone.

 

And your second point makes no sense. Once he was the universe, he used Rahkshi to drive them out of Odina. And why would he want to wipe out the Toa that remained, when it seemed he was having too much fun toying with them? He obviously didn't need or care for the Dark Hunters once he was in control of Mata Nui's body.

Don't forget that when he took over the universe, the DHs sided with the Order in opposing him. So of course he would then punish them. That changed the equation at that time. The question you asked isn't talking about that -- you asked why he let them stay for a thousand years prior to that decision. What I meant was that he realized that at the time that he would take over, that major change would force TSO to make a call -- abandon this silly war over such a trivial thing as the death of two incompetent members, or continue to oppose him.

 

Only at that time did TSO make that tougher choice, and that's when Terry punished the organization with serious force. It does make sense.

 

I figured you'd say he didn't need them too. Sure, but that isn't how Teridax thinks. He wants them, just like he wanted the Matoran. He wanted a lot of people actually on his side, because he wanted people's respect. That's how this all got started, after all. "I mean, really, who neeeeds any of this stuff?" (kudos for those who get the allusion ); he didn't really need the Matoran either. Could have just come up with Rahi to do the job and make Rahkshi do whatever they could handle, etc. But it's more efficient if you've got genuinely intelligent beings willingly serving you, rather than beasts and things better at destruction.

 

As for the Toa, he wasn't really in "have fun" mode. I'm sure after the serious matters of establishing his control with true security, ending the serious threats like Tahu and company, and then destroying Spherus Magna with Mata Nui on it, then he might want some to remain for fun (hence why I said "stifle", not "wipe out" ). But at the time it would have been better for him if the talented DH had turned their hostility away from him and toward the Toa.

 

As for gnats, a gnat will do some damage that to the gnat might seem impressive, but from the human's perspective really isn't. Nothing the DH did ever seriously threatened the Brotherhood. Spotting the Plan could have been an exception, but personally that seems unlikely. If Teridax was that worried about it he probably would have taken stronger measures to prevent anyone from seeing it, such as writing in difficult code, having special locks, etc. Had the DHs started using that knowledge to influence the Matoran and Toa, the Makuta likely would have turned serious force on them then and prevented it easily.

 

So more likely it's fortunate for the Dark Hunters that Zaktan kept his mouth shut.

Edited by bonesiii, Jun 04 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[Lewigi]

As for the Toa, he wasn't really in "have fun" mode. I'm sure after the serious matters of establishing his control with true security, ending the serious threats like Tahu and company

But he didn't end Tahu and co. In a group which contained some of the Toa, the one he had the ground swallow was Guardian, a Dark Hunter. He didn't instantly wipe out the most powerful Toa in the universe, which shows either a relative disconcern for security or that he did want to see his enemies squirm in what he thought was a futile rebellion.

 

Had the DHs started using that knowledge to influence the Matoran and Toa, the Makuta likely would have turned serious force on them then and prevented it easily.

Maybe, if Teridax had a backup plan for that, but allowing that information to leak was a serious threat. If word of it did manage to get to even one of the Toa Mahri or Toa Nuva, his plan would have failed. (Unless he had another backup plan, but that may be pushing it) Not even the other Makuta were permitted to know the whole Plan.

 

As for wanting people on his side--I can understand that mentality, but I doubt he valued the Dark Hunters much. The Matoran were a prize--it was their thanks towards Mata Nui that caused Teridax to decide to act on the ideas that had been floating in his head since the League of Six Kingdoms was defeated. The Dark Hunters never honored Mata Nui, nor had they received protection from the Brotherhood. They were just tools with which Teridax planned to acquire his trophy, the Matoran.

[Dual Cee]

I Can't believe I'm saying this to two highly respectable staff members, but:Sta on topic guys, you have an interesting discussion going on, but it doesn't belong in this topic. (That said, please don't ban me )Now, for Greg...*About the Serials, is there some news?*Velika mentioned "Things" have changed, what things... And why does he wants to keep the Mata alive.

[bonesiii]

I'm fine with members discussing out, here in this topic, what we do (and do not) know to questions raised here so that Greg's time won't have to be wasted with them if we already have good answers. It's unlikely that everyone will want to make a new topic to discuss every finer point so requiring them to either do that or say nothing would stifle productive discussion, though a new topic would be good too; that's up to LL.

 

I really don't have much to add, though. I think we're agreed that the Makuta don't just want to obliterate everybody, so they come up with various reasons not to at various times.

Edited by bonesiii, Jun 04 2013 - 03:47 PM.

[Anung Un Rama]

*Velika mentioned "Things" have changed, what things... 

I'd suspect that by saying that things had changed, he was simply saying that the situation was much different than it had been previously, since the Reformation, etc.

[Kopekemaster]

Okay then, I will define my questions a bit more.1. Who created Spherus Magna?2. How long is the average lifetime (without dying of outside causes) of a Matoran, Turaga, or Toa?

Edited by Kopekemaster, Jun 04 2013 - 08:58 PM.

[The_Didact]

Okay then, I will define my questions a bit more.1. Who created Spherus Magna?2. How long is the average lifetime (without dying of outside causes) of a Matoran, Turaga, or Toa?

1.- The planet was created naturally

2.- Unknown, but the oldest MU inhabitants (Artakha, Karzahni, Helryx, all Av-Matoran, Toa Mata, Lesovikk, Tren Krom, some OoMN/HoA members) have just over 100,000 years

Edited by The_Didact, Jun 04 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Rucks]

Okay then, I will define my questions a bit more.1. Who created Spherus Magna?2. How long is the average lifetime (without dying of outside causes) of a Matoran, Turaga, or Toa?

1.- The planet was created naturally

2.- Unknown, but the oldest MU inhabitants (Artakha, Karzahni, Helryx, all Av-Matoran, Toa Mata, Lesovikk, Tren Krom, some OoMN/HoA members) have just over 100,000 years

 

Just to add to this, The Shadowed One might be even older,(i.e. he was aged by Voporak's time field, but we don't know how early in the MU's existence he came into being), and he's still kicking.

[Anung Un Rama]

1.- The planet was created naturally

We don't know that for sure, right? I thought there was actually more evidence (or maybe a direct statement) saying that the GTGBs had a hand in making (or modifying) the planet.

[Lewigi]

I really don't have much to add, though. I think we're agreed that the Makuta don't just want to obliterate everybody, so they come up with various reasons not to at various times.

I would like to know the reason the Brotherhood had for not ending the DH War at least, when they more than likely were fully capable of it. That would pretty much answer my question.

[Rau Rau]

When will the story continue?

[Doorman]

When will the story continue?

no comfirmation that it will even continue. it might, but until then....