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The Perfect Cage -- Review

Bionicle Paracosmos

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#41 Online bonesiii

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Posted Mar 29 2013 - 09:17 AM

Chapter 19.

 

Have you said when it should begin being posted?

It's my personal policy from experience making the mistake to never do that. :P I'll have to take a break for taxes ASAP, and the later story might slow down. Earlier stuff is sometimes easier to write because there's less material to contradict. But then I'm also more familiar with the later stuff (as that's what my original version of the timeline was about of course). So... we'll see. :P I'm definitely hoping to get it done in just weeks to months if I can pull it off. Obviously I'm leaving much of the side story out, so yeah.

 

You know what, this might go without saying, but... It seems like a really strong theme in this episode that the Toa Mata are very passive, and new characters such as Bhukasa and Hujo are highly active leaders.

This is somewhat intentional, but not entirely. There is a theme I'm using right now that the Mata have not yet begun to realize their role in the Paracosmos, and by the end it is to be very important. I'm going to devote many stories over the remainder of the series, if current plans hold out, to their finding their purposes like that, and this is Onua's turn.

 

Partly though this is just because 1) This is the Kal story and the Toa being weakened comes with the territory, 2) Kopaka couldn't be the main lead in this story so he kind had to have a lot of failure here, plus I wanted him to really, really feel what that's like for once, and 3) Onua himself struggles with being too passive.

 

But the other thing is that quote emphasizes Bhukasa's newfound confidence. He's giving orders and shutting down a debate with a seemingly lack of inner turmoil that marked the EB Bhukasa. I like seeing that. *waves "Positive character development!" sign*

^_^

 

Interesting. I also note that the others aren't thinking ahead. The only person who seems to be doing that is Nijre, oddly enough. That's starting to creep me out a bit - that character, in addition to mirroring me empirically, is starting to take on some of the thought processes I normally use,like the inventing of plans rapidly to adjust to the new situation at hand. (Creepy coincidence is creepy, approaching the level of nasty mind trick.) 

That is strange. Maybe it's a Bionicle thing? That's been a theme since 2001, after all, so it makes sense that we Bionicle fans would think like that. :P I wouldn't say it's odd that she's thinking ahead, though -- an ice fisherwoman would have to. And Onua is thinking ahead, it's more that he's having trouble speaking up, after his fright with the energy packs. :shrugs: Anywho...

 

Maybe Vaarukan/Kuambu are looking for a jailer - Vaarukan is tired of the prison-running business and wants a vacation? Or worse, trapped on the island and needs a replacement to escape himself? After all, someone skilled in escaping prisons would be the perfect architect of a prison.

A reasonable theory. :)


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#42 Offline fishers64

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Posted Mar 30 2013 - 12:09 AM

Interesting. I also note that the others aren't thinking ahead. The only person who seems to be doing that is Nijre, oddly enough. That's starting to creep me out a bit - that character, in addition to mirroring me empirically, is starting to take on some of the thought processes I normally use,like the inventing of plans rapidly to adjust to the new situation at hand. (Creepy coincidence is creepy, approaching the level of nasty mind trick.)  [/size]

That is strange. Maybe it's a Bionicle thing? That's been a theme since 2001, after all, so it makes sense that we Bionicle fans would think like that. :P I wouldn't say it's odd that she's thinking ahead, though -- an ice fisherwoman would have to. And Onua is thinking ahead, it's more that he's having trouble speaking up, after his fright with the energy packs. :shrugs: Anywho...

Interesting theory, but my mind produced examples of my tactically planning things before Bionicle even entered the picture, so theory debunked. :P (I even remember reading Bionicle and seeing the "Toa go off without plan only leads to diaster" message and thinking "No duh!") However, the explanation does explain why this character has that tendency, leaving it a coincidence - after all, she's from Ko-Metru. She thinks ahead. :)Despite this, my intuition is under revolt to sound logic and keeps producing similarities between this story and myself and other things that I've written, etc. I actually feel like I can predict what happens next, unlike EB where I knew I was grasping at straws. :) There's a actually a theory I didn't voice earlier that I kind of wished I had; I'm not going to voice it now, because it actually is very close to coming true. And frankly, I don't want it to be true; I trust you to be a better writer than me.And seriously, you did not just put a flying airship in there. That is the first thing I think of when I need to modify a story or concept or scene to inject 100% more amazingness - having characters fly around on flying airships! I haven't actually used that in a story, however, because I've seen two series of books feature airships and never truly give the sense of flying in an airship. The story could have practically taken place in a water ship or land rover and still practically be the same story. I'll see how and what you do with it, as I think it's difficult to pull off.So yes, hunch of mine says that Toggler is going to Influence Characters Or Plot In Some Way with That Thing. :) It also says that Kopaka may be going for an airship ride. Although that latter thing is more speculative. (And don't even get me started on Nijre flying about and learning how to program stuff...STOP READING MY MIND, BONES!)  :)Anyway...I am fairly certain that this is purely coincidence and completely unintentional. (By you, at least. :P) Hopefully the story will diverge a bit from what I think is going to happen, and I see encouraging signs of it in places, so not to worry. Yet. :lol:

 

(In addition, me also taking note of the additional flying references in terms of the Kuambu...very interesting, and if more flying things are coming I will enjoy this cake. I like flying things.) 

 

Thanks for reading, sorry for long rambling post. 


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#43 Online bonesiii

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 03:31 PM

 Chapter 20.

 

Interesting theory, but my mind produced examples of my tactically planning things before Bionicle even entered the picture, so theory debunked. :P

No no, I meant the other way around. Sorry, I was alluding to my personal taste allocation, society variety theories and the like and didn't realize I was too vague. :P I mean, those of us who stuck with Bionicle all this time / think of ourselves as major fans are likely to be those who already had the personality allocation to be "ahead thinkers" or whatnot. That would be a big part of why we liked Bionicle. I didn't mean that we learned it from Bionicle although I'm sure that's also true for a lot of us.

 

Anywho... 

I trust you to be a better writer than me.

Lol, okay. :P Gee, now I hope the big twists that are coming up aren't what you hoped I didn't think of. XD (Some of them have been planned and hinted at ever since the first BP story, incidentally... anywho... can't say more... yarr...)

 

And seriously, you did not just put a flying airship in there. That is the first thing I think of when I need to modify a story or concept or scene to inject 100% more amazingness - having characters fly around on flying airships! I haven't actually used that in a story, however, because I've seen two series of books feature airships and never truly give the sense of flying in an airship. The story could have practically taken place in a water ship or land rover and still practically be the same story. I'll see how and what you do with it, as I think it's difficult to pull off.So yes, hunch of mine says that Toggler is going to Influence Characters Or Plot In Some Way with That Thing. :) It also says that Kopaka may be going for an airship ride.

Well this is certainly not the reaction I expected to the airship thing. :P It wasn't really meant to be amazing -- I'd said in EB that Toggler had stolen one from Metru Nui, and left it unstated what happened to it. He simply still has it. :) Although there was a bit of a Lost S4 allusion mixed in there too for fun. :P It will be used, but anywho, you'll see.

 

I like flying things.

I see. :P


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#44 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted Mar 31 2013 - 05:18 PM

Chapter 19: Judging by Kopaka's observations of Pahrak-Kal, I think that the longer the chronoserum transformation takes, the more animalistic the Kal becomes. Kohrak-Kal was the first to finish (if I remember correctly), and it was still sane enough to warn the Toa. Pahrak-Kal seems to have ended up on the opposite end of that scale.Onua's discovery of the Rahkshi in Kuambu captivity has let me complete a theory to the extent that I can write it out now.The Kuambu know just as much as perhaps even the Unknown about Convergeance, and are actively working to bring the two Cosmos together. At first this didn't seem like the case because of what they did to the Bohrok-Kal, but I think I understand that more. The end goal is to make events occur as similarly to the original Cosmos as possible; this doesn't necessarily mean the events have to be "picture-perfect." As long as the Bohrok-Kal get to the Nuva Cube and force the Mask of Time to be used (which just became much more likely), it doesn't matter what they look like or what kind of state of mind they're in. Same goes for the Rahkshi - it doesn't matter where they came from or who is controlling them, the Makuta or Kuambu. As long as they hunt down and reveal Takanuva, it brings them closer to Convergeance.If I'm right, this implies two things: One, that the nature of the Paracosmos and the Event doesn't require completely identical events, but centres on pivotal moments. That might be a given already, but going further: it doesn't matter what the intention is behind the events. In other words, what's really important for the Convergeance is to mimic the physical events. In a way, this is also a given, since the logical alternative would be to destroy all deviating minds, personalities, and wills in the Paracosmos. That's self-defeating since Core characters exist here but have been altered themselves.Two, that the Kuambu really do want Convergeance, or at least want to bring things closer so that they can do something else, or somehow take advantage of Convergeance. Can't say much more than this, but it sure seems like that's the direction they're going on. However, I still can't reconcile this theory with what they did to the Toa. My best idea is that they had to actually delay the true Nuva transformation or prevent it from happening altogether to buy time for their own plans.Oh yeah, forgot to remark on Rathoa's mask-breaking scene earlier. That came as a shock to me, and sort of disappointing in a way. It's good that he took such a bold step to prove his intentions, but I honestly hoped he would stay bad because he's so good at it lol. Of course, he could have something else up his arm-armour... If anything is a BIONICLE cliche, it's relying on masks as pivotal story points. :P
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#45 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 01 2013 - 01:42 AM

 

Interesting theory, but my mind produced examples of my tactically planning things before Bionicle even entered the picture, so theory debunked. :P

No no, I meant the other way around. Sorry, I was alluding to my personal taste allocation, society variety theories and the like and didn't realize I was too vague. :P I mean, those of us who stuck with Bionicle all this time / think of ourselves as major fans are likely to be those who already had the personality allocation to be "ahead thinkers" or whatnot. That would be a big part of why we liked Bionicle. I didn't mean that we learned it from Bionicle although I'm sure that's also true for a lot of us. Anywho...

 

In that case, you are probably correct, as many people who like stories like this (and/or appreciate good literature) have a similar personality trait - intuition, I think it is called. And there is no doubt that I have it - I have taken multiple personality tests with the same result every time. So theory supported, I guess. 

 

I trust you to be a better writer than me.

Lol, okay. :P Gee, now I hope the big twists that are coming up aren't what you hoped I didn't think of. XD (Some of them have been planned and hinted at ever since the first BP story, incidentally... anywho... can't say more... yarr...)

 

 I wouldn't know anything about that. *resists urge to ramble endlessly about own theory* The only thing that I am going to say is that I have read too many "prison break" stories, too many "airship" stories, and too many "airship + prison break" stories, which are more common than you might think. (Should have seen that airship coming. :P) And being very familiar with the "prison break" pattern of storytelling, I successfully predicted two things in this story that have actually happened. However, I'm holding out hope that the conclusion may not be as I expect, because you seem to be using the "end of the break" techniques early. I'm looking for the twist that will throw me off and break the pattern. If I don't see it, I will be disappointed. I did find thinking this through in detail to be very helpful, however. Thanks. Chapter 20: 

On the right, scattered across the side of the island closest to the fictional eyes in this view-angle, and to the far right edge, were depictions of five domes.

 
We have only seen three. Theory: Nijre is NOT in one of domes Onua sees and neither is Makuta.
 
Theory: Nijre is under Vaarukan's volcano.
 
Theory: "Jaudrohk, close the windows!" and some people are going to end up trapped...
 
I should have guessed that there was lava up above. There was a lava-fall mentioned earlier. And I suspected that the windows thing was too easy.
 
EDIT: Post finally fixed. 

Edited by fishers64, Jun 17 2013 - 02:20 PM.

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#46 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 12:40 AM

Part Three begins with Chapter 21.

 

Fed & State taxes done. That's getting much easier as I get the hang of it. City? Nah, that's always a headache. It's the ability to do the others online that makes the diff. Ah well. Progress on the canon-fit story has been slow but existent...

 

Judging by Kopaka's observations of Pahrak-Kal, I think that the longer the chronoserum transformation takes, the more animalistic the Kal becomes. Kohrak-Kal was the first to finish (if I remember correctly), and it was still sane enough to warn the Toa. Pahrak-Kal seems to have ended up on the opposite end of that scale.

I good theory, but I can safely deny that I had this in mind. It was stated that the best scientists who have tried to study chronoserum, especially Caroha, have concluded that its effects are literally unpredictable (at least in some ways), and this was meant to be one of them. Essentially random. Although, this obviously implies that the Kuambu somehow knew that one effect of the transformation would be the Kal's minds reverting. Later stories will delve more into how that could possibly be so.

 

Onua's discovery of the Rahkshi in Kuambu captivity has let me complete a theory to the extent that I can write it out now.The Kuambu know just as much as perhaps even the Unknown about Convergeance, and are actively working to bring the two Cosmos together.

I can confirm that at least in this case, that's correct. And they obviously know enough about it to use the idea. How much they do this I cannot answer, nor why.

 

At first this didn't seem like the case because of what they did to the Bohrok-Kal, but I think I understand that more. The end goal is to make events occur as similarly to the original Cosmos as possible; this doesn't necessarily mean the events have to be "picture-perfect." As long as the Bohrok-Kal get to the Nuva Cube and force the Mask of Time to be used (which just became much more likely), it doesn't matter what they look like or what kind of state of mind they're in.

Exactly. 

If I'm right, this implies two things: One, that the nature of the Paracosmos and the Event doesn't require completely identical events, but centres on pivotal moments. That might be a given already, but going further: it doesn't matter what the intention is behind the events. In other words, what's really important for the Convergeance is to mimic the physical events. In a way, this is also a given, since the logical alternative would be to destroy all deviating minds, personalities, and wills in the Paracosmos. That's self-defeating since Core characters exist here but have been altered themselves.

Can't comment much here except to say that closer intentions sometimes occur. Makuta's intention for infecting Rahi here was the same as in the Cosmos, for example. Yet it is obviously correct to say that intentions are often quite different here (somewhat by design just so I can tell a more engaging and less predictable story :P). There's a very important secret at the root of this question of intent, though, so it's good you're thinking about it. :)

 

Two, that the Kuambu really do want Convergeance, or at least want to bring things closer so that they can do something else, or somehow take advantage of Convergeance. Can't say much more than this, but it sure seems like that's the direction they're going on. However, I still can't reconcile this theory with what they did to the Toa. My best idea is that they had to actually delay the true Nuva transformation or prevent it from happening altogether to buy time for their own plans.

Keep in mind that other events caused the showdown with the Bahrag to occur in Le-Wahi (on the surface), not down in the Bahrag's chamber where the energized protodermis tubes were in the Cosmos. So the Kuambu's transformation of the Toa was another "as close as it comes" workaround.

 

One more thing I'll add on this -- this kind of "flip open the lid of a magical lamp" convergeance isn't something I plan to involve often. There is far, far, far more to Convergeance (I imagine that would get old after a while :P). It also has some downsides that have only been hinted at so far.

 

Oh yeah, forgot to remark on Rathoa's mask-breaking scene earlier. That came as a shock to me, and sort of disappointing in a way. It's good that he took such a bold step to prove his intentions, but I honestly hoped he would stay bad because he's so good at it lol. Of course, he could have something else up his arm-armour... If anything is a BIONICLE cliche, it's relying on masks as pivotal story points. :P

Well, I'm primarily telling a character-based story here so personally I like it better if it's more ambiguous, and this is a theme I intend to play with from Rathoa's POV in the second-to-next story. I'll just add that perhaps Rathoa successfully fooled even you? After all, those Rahunga had been captured by the Makuta and in all likelihood already freed from his control, and smashing that mask gave him a strategic advantage in that situation he may have felt he needed (yes, that's a loss for him, but he could have felt the gain outweighed it), even while still being bad. :P I leave it to you to theorize and discover later what is actually the case, however. Also, a later chapter here gets more into Rathoa's psychology, and keep in mind he is or was Third Faction -- they tend to take some moral stands even while being evil in other ways.

 

 

 

 

The only thing that I am going to say is that I have read too many "prison break" stories, too many "airship" stories, and too many "airship + prison break" stories, which are more common than you might think. (Should have seen that airship coming. :P)

Well, the airship will, I suppose, be loosely connected to the prison, but I might as well say now that it'll have nothing directly to do with how they get out later (if they do lolz :P).

 

However, I'm holding out hope that the conclusion may not be as I expect, because you seem to be using the "end of the break" techniques early. I'm looking for the twist that will throw me off and break the pattern. If I don't see it, I will be disappointed.

Despite the title, I definitely don't see this as inherently a prison-break story, actually. It's designed to seem that way at first, but anyways, you'll see what I mean later. :ziplip: The title's real meaning (as usual in my stories) is more metaphorical than literal.

 

We have only seen three. Theory: Nijre is NOT in one of domes Onua sees and neither is Makuta.

Correct. :) (Confirmed in Chapter 21.)

 

I was actually worried like crazy that the math clue was too blatant and the twist of the end of 20 would be seen coming. :P Glad to see you caught the intentional discrepancy though. ^_^

 

Theory: Nijre is under Vaarukan's volcano.

On the right track, but the truth is a bit more "has been staring you in the face" than that. Well, it's true that vertically speaking, it's 'under'. :P See Chapter 21...

 

Theory: "Jaudrohk, close the windows!"

Right, except he won't need told. :P


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#47 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 02 2013 - 09:39 PM

Well, the airship will, I suppose, be loosely connected to the prison, but I might as well say now that it'll have nothing directly to do with how they get out later (if they do lolz :P).[...]Despite the title, I definitely don't see this as inherently a prison-break story, actually. It's designed to seem that way at first, but anyways, you'll see what I mean later. :ziplip: The title's real meaning (as usual in my stories) is more metaphorical than literal.

 

Well, it really does seem like a prison-break story, completely fitting the pattern I've observed with such stories. My mind warns me that we may not mean the same thing by the term "prison-break story", but I don't want to post that wall of text I concocted to define it. By it, I mean a story pattern centered around a place the character wants out of, not an actual prison per se. I just use the term "prison-break" to make it easier to refer to. :shrugs: And by that definition, I have seen Incomplete Prison-Break stories - at least, a major plot event at the end of the story which is important to the eventual break closing out the story, with the sequel or sequels containing the actual break (but the break always happens eventually unless everybody dies). Usually a Revelation of Truth is the end of the Incomplete Prison-Break, with Incarceron the most obvious example - although I have read many, many more. So them not getting out wouldn't render the pattern obsolete.However, I sense reasoning based on this has TRAP written all over it. :) Complacency is the enemy, unlike last time, where having a headache was the enemy.  

I was actually worried like crazy that the math clue was too blatant and the twist of the end of 20 would be seen coming. :P Glad to see you caught the intentional discrepancy though. ^_^

 It only occurred to me when the Magma hit and the domes that Onua saw didn't have Magma...wasn't there four? *checks back at the painting scene* Oh, yeah, five...Theory: The painting inside the dome was painted before the dome was moved.Theory: The person who actually painted the painting is no longer in the dome Nijre is in. Otherwise, he would probably give away to the prisoners that the island theory is false...either that, or he is a big fat liar. Or both. Theory: The three domes on the surface of Vaarukan's island are tricks designed to fool and delay the invaders. The Ko-Matoran that the heroes are allowed to rescue are supposed to be an encumberment to further action. (Have to protect the little guys.) 

On the right track, but the truth is a bit more "has been staring you in the face" than that. Well, it's true that vertically speaking, it's 'under'. :P See Chapter 21...

*facepalm* Should have totally seen that coming. :)

 

Theory: Nijre and Co. were pulled down into the prison below by that red creature thing. (Well, I guess that one's obvious...)

 

Theory: The Kuambu use Teleportation Kuamor to get in and out of that prison safely, possibly magnified by the silver technology in the dome. As such, they probably have a stash of these somewhere. Or better yet, a teleportation machine. 

 

* * *

Chapter 21:

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;] She wore another distinctive mask, a Mask of Memory, similar to an Akaku in asymmetry; a vertical line-visor from the top of the head to the bottom of the mask curved over the left eye.[/color]

​How fitting. Definitely fitting. 

 

The chime mystery is much like the BE mystery from the last story, vague and confusing, but I'll try a theory: The chime happens whenever the creature sends up some of its tendrils to affect the outside world. Or when the tendrils return to the creature. The more tendrils are sent up/return, the louder the chime gets.

 

I don't think that the earthquake has anything to do with that, though. Cosmos Lurch?

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]But from now on, she decided, she would not take a leadership role. Mukana, Jaudrohk, Raitu, Teuara, Ehrye... maybe Kejokta, even... any of them were more qualified.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:12px;]As for herself... she just wanted to get along, to live peacefully. Contented with the lot she was given. Contented not leading others to their deaths.[/color]

 

This time the cage wins.

 

Theory: Nijire, you are not going to get away with this. There are too many internal and external factors preventing this from becoming true from very long. For one thing, the characters in this story are going to be looking to Nijire for guidance again, even though her plan bombed out, because she is the one with the plans. Second, the Kuambu/Vaarukan aren't going to let her quit.  

 

The thing is, she has already been seen inventing a plan and modifying it out of the air twice. If she really does have that gift, and it does appear that she does, she will not be able to turn it off, and will always be concocting a new strategy, even if she doesn't voice it. (Much like Onua - only he has trouble voicing it.)

 

In further case, the passivity (by Nijire!) is a strategy of itself - I am so done with this, new plan. But that plan is likely to bomb quickly, because it is based on an internal lie that Nijire isn't a leader, and that there is no way out. Now it might be a good short-term strategy, because if you can fool your enemies into thinking that you've given up, you might be able to trick them out. And the easiest way to tell (or to act) a lie is to believe it yourself. However.

 

I don't think it in Nijire to pull a Bhukasa. 

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]This hesitation was foolish. She had been guilty of nothing but taking the situation for what it appeared to be. Even Jaudrohk had believed they were on Vaurukan's island.[/color]

 

 

 

This character is already having trouble deceiving herself. She even knows the truth, right there

 

And probably the Kuambu know this. It's part of the qualities that made them single her out - classic fast schemer who is chronically grounded in reality and never truly gives up (qualities of the ice fisherwoman, no doubt). And she won't be able to stop doing that because that's who she is. If she isn't the leader, she will always be handing ideas and achievements to the one who is, really leading everything from behind the scenes. 

 

And there hence, since Nijire cannot escape from these qualities of herself, the Perfect Cage is the mind.

You really can't get away from yourself, only deceive yourself about what is truly back there, and those qualities will always be there and find ways out even though you want to ignore them (if you do!). At least, IMO regarding personality allocation, which seems to be the root of this. 

 

 

He sacrificed himself to free all the Matoran?

 

The crystal believed so. Onua was a little surprised the little Makuta would do such a thing, but hadn't he said he was not like the corrupted Makuta of the Brotherhood?

 

Or he escaped using his own teleportation power, and is using his illusion powers to conceal himself so he can go further his own plans and get away from The Endless Debate Society. Wouldn't put it past him.

 

It's good that you're inspiring me to think, but yeesh. Long post. 


Edited by fishers64, Apr 02 2013 - 09:50 PM.

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#48 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted Apr 03 2013 - 01:52 PM

Hmm, my post for Chapter 20 didn't go through somehow. I saw it posted, and now it's gone. Darn. I didn't say much, fortunately... mostly my reactions. I wasn't that surprised when the magma started spilling into the dome as Nijire and co. were approaching. I did start to believe that they really were in one of the domes aboveground, especially when the interior and exterior descriptions of the opening windows matched up... clever move.

 

Chapter 21: I figured it out about halfway through the chapter that Nijire's dome was with the tendril creature. There wasn't a direct obvious clue, but I simply realized that if there's magma, but they're NOT on Vaurukan's island or Mata Nui, then the next most obvious place in this story is down where the tendril creature is.

 

That thing just keeps me confused. Why would it be doing all these things, and cooperating with the Kuambu to keep their prisoners? Perhaps... it is Vaurukan himself?

 

Going back to the map in the dome:

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]To the right of this, something even more terrifying.[/color]

 

A huge wavy line, roughly forming an oval. Very thin. Inside it, a single word, in tiny letters.

 

“Rumor.”

 

Overlaying this, the Matoran symbol for a question mark.

 

Nijire assumed this meant there was merely the rumor of another creature – almost bigger than Vaurukan’s island, she observed, though she wondered how you could accurately depict the size of a mere rumor – perhaps so deadly that none who saw it ever lived to tell the tale.

 

Beneath this was a number, in the tiniest text yet.

 

1.

I think we can be fairly certain that there's only one of those tendril creatures. Onua's observation of the hologram that recalled its brain-like skin matches up with the thin wavy line used by the artist. And the creature is definitely around the size of the island, as Onua discovered when he blur-travelled down to its home. And it being a rumor to the artist makes sense, since it's likely nobody ever has seen it until Onua did, or perhaps it was once seen long ago and that memory was passed around until it reached the artist.

 

I'm gonna call it - the tendril creature is Vaurukan. The town and his palace are just placeholders. And even the Kuambu may not even realize this, since I don't think they've been able to see him directly either. They may only think they're working with a tendril creature that works under Vaurukan.

 

Another reason to support this theory is that, up to this point, we keep hearing about this Vaurukan being hired by the Kuambu and doing some work for them, but we've never seen him do anything directly. Meanwhile, the tendril creature has kidnapped the Ko-Matoran, disrupted the Toa's plans (especially Onua), even put Hujo on guard since it could discover some of his secrets. Certainly doing a lot of work to help the Kuambu. It just makes sense that they're one and the same. But who knows... you could have something completely unexpected planned.

 

I'll leave this here till you respond, and then work further based on what you say. :)


Edited by Takuta-Nui, Apr 03 2013 - 03:56 PM.

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#49 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 08 2013 - 03:44 PM

Chapter 22.

 

Some great theories and thoughts. :) I'm debating back and forth how much to say and not say as I type this, so pardon if I reveal too much. :P

 

First -- Vaurukan is not the creature. A brilliant theory but if I let that one go I'll just be setting you up for a let-down. :P He's titan-sized, but that's all I can say for now. Also, the creature was built fairly recently, but Vaurukan dates back well into ancient times. Although, Vaurukan designed and owns the creature so you could make the metaphorical argument that it's an extension of him. :) (The black stone scaffolding is his doing specifically; it wouldn't have been buildable unless he existed before it, at least not economically.)

 

Second -- the creature is made (largely) out of that cold tech and the two missing domes from his island (placed together as a sphere), so it's smaller than his island. See Ito's reveal at the end of 21. BTW, when I say that character theories are usually wrong... that usually doesn't apply to Ito. :P What he says in 21 is accurate. Including, technically, his statement that "it's not a creature". I'll continue to use the term for now, for lack of a better one (a better one will be invented by the characters later).

 

Third -- the creature is identified on the map a bit to the left of Rumor (the one with the brain texture, not the wavy outline), also with a number 1. Whether it is connected to Rumor or not as well, you'll have to read on for.

 

To specifics:

 

Well, it really does seem like a prison-break story, completely fitting the pattern I've observed with such stories. My mind warns me that we may not mean the same thing by the term "prison-break story", but I don't want to post that wall of text I concocted to define it. By it, I mean a story pattern centered around a place the character wants out of, not an actual prison per se. I just use the term "prison-break" to make it easier to refer to. :shrugs:

Fair enough. Let's just agree that it's a story with a prison in it and many of the associated themes, for now. And yeah, the larger metaphorical theme of a prison or trap is definately what it's about, so granted. I would just hesitate to categorize it under the usual prison-break stories, for reasons that will become clear. I obviously can't comment further for now, heh.

 

It only occurred to me when the Magma hit and the domes that Onua saw didn't have Magma...wasn't there four? *checks back at the painting scene* Oh, yeah, five...

Yeah, there were five originally (the painting portrays what the island used to look like), but now there are just three, since two were used to make the sphere that the creature was built around. (The upper sphere is hollow and is where Nijire and company are trapped. The lower half is filled in, contents to be described much later but it's basically more of the inner workings of the creature.)

 

Theory: The painting inside the dome was painted before the dome was moved.

Nope. After. :) When it was painted, it was already inaccurate with the number of domes. Make of that what you will. :P

 

Theory: The person who actually painted the painting is no longer in the dome Nijre is in. Otherwise, he would probably give away to the prisoners that the island theory is false...either that, or he is a big fat liar. Or both.

Unless the apparent portrayal in-story is correct (no comment ;)) -- that Jaudrohk painted it (using those frozen-over paint cans near the exit from that room, briefly mentioned when Nijire first spotted him), and the Kuambu have been blurring his memories. :)

 

Also, just to be clear, Jaudrohk is the only other prisoner in here. The rest are all from Ko-Koro (including the Ko-Rahunga who had been from there originally). So if another prisoner did paint it, you would be correct. Of course, it's also possible the Kuambu themselves painted it.

 

Theory: The three domes on the surface of Vaarukan's island are tricks designed to fool and delay the invaders. The Ko-Matoran that the heroes are allowed to rescue are supposed to be an encumberment to further action. (Have to protect the little guys.)

First sentence: Correct, in terms of their current purpose.

 

The story about the prison domes and junk dome system that I have described and that was given in-story used to be correct (if you go back and read my older replies you'll notice I carefully avoided stating that it IS in place :P). One clarification: the advanced tech was actually spread out through all five domes (there's too much of it to all fit in one), so that one label on the painting is misleading (but it was presented as "I think I'm here", if mem serves, so yeah). Prisoners were also kept in all five domes, originally. But now that system has been disbanded, and any prisoners left that weren't to go inside the creature have been given to the Kuambu instead.

 

As for the rest, that's vague enough that I can at least confirm it in terms of what they want to happen inside the dome. The Kuambu may, of course, also have "kill two birds with one stone" plans for even those ones, though, to come into play later (not in this story though). They're the rejects. 

Theory: Nijre and Co. were pulled down into the prison below by that red creature thing. (Well, I guess that one's obvious...)

 

Theory: The Kuambu use Teleportation Kuamor to get in and out of that prison safely, possibly magnified by the silver technology in the dome. As such, they probably have a stash of these somewhere. Or better yet, a teleportation machine.

I might as well confirm all of this. They can use Teleportation Kuamor, but as that's a lot more dangerous and they're inside the mantle, they prefer to use a machine they have somewhere. Nijire will be concluding this as well coming up. However, what I can't reveal is how difficult it may be to get to it. The Kuambu are certainly confident that it's unreachable to prisoners. 

The chime mystery is much like the BE mystery from the last story, vague and confusing, but I'll try a theory: The chime happens whenever the creature sends up some of its tendrils to affect the outside world. Or when the tendrils return to the creature. The more tendrils are sent up/return, the louder the chime gets.

 

I don't think that the earthquake has anything to do with that, though. Cosmos Lurch?

1) A nice theory.

 

2) The quakes have been caused by two things -- first, the creature, damaged by the hatches opening and the magma hitting power and processor lines, started moving against its 'will', and collided with massive stone 'upside-down mountains' reaching down into the mantle (the natural texture of the underside of the crust). And second, it had some tendrils attached to the Mangai and to the Watcher Temple at the time, and it drew the line taut, so you can imagine what that would do (it'll be commented on more clearly coming up in-story). They lessen later because it dives deeper to get away from the crust.

 

Not a Cosmos Lurch, no.

 

 

Insightful remarks as to Nijire's character development. I'll let the continuing story speak for itself on that. :)

 

Or he escaped using his own teleportation power, and is using his illusion powers to conceal himself so he can go further his own plans and get away from The Endless Debate Society. Wouldn't put it past him.

I loled. :P

 

I wasn't that surprised when the magma started spilling into the dome as Nijire and co. were approaching. I did start to believe that they really were in one of the domes aboveground, especially when the interior and exterior descriptions of the opening windows matched up... clever move

^_^

 

I think we can be fairly certain that there's only one of those tendril creatures. Onua's observation of the hologram that recalled its brain-like skin matches up with the thin wavy line used by the artist. And the creature is definitely around the size of the island, as Onua discovered when he blur-travelled down to its home. And it being a rumor to the artist makes sense, since it's likely nobody ever has seen it until Onua did, or perhaps it was once seen long ago and that memory was passed around until it reached the artist.

1) Well, it's the one with the brain-texture on the painting a ways to the left of Rumor, which also has a 1. Whether that is accurate or not I can't say. It could easily also be Rumor, or Rumor could be something else, or Rumor might be a total lie by the painter. :P

 

2) As said above, that hologram was meant to identify the prison-dome as the creature which was meant to be matched up to the brain-texture one on the map.

 

3) It's the basic width of one of the domes. However, we're talking about a Rumor, and Nijire mentioned that how could you really know the size of a rumor, so who knows? :P

 

I'm gonna call it - the tendril creature is Vaurukan. The town and his palace are just placeholders. And even the Kuambu may not even realize this, since I don't think they've been able to see him directly either. They may only think they're working with a tendril creature that works under Vaurukan.

They have seen him. I can't comment more until later, but this is another thing it's good that you're thinking about. :ziplip:


Edited by bonesiii, Apr 08 2013 - 03:53 PM.

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#50 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 09 2013 - 07:38 AM

Chapter 22:  1) The "tendril creature" is a machine? A robot? *pictures Vaarukan sitting in his palace and controlling the "creature" with a videogame controller* :) Or does it have a rudimentary clockwork brain? 2) The edge of the creature = the edge of the windows Jaudrohk opened? 3) I had a wary eye toward Jaudrohk as a liar, but Kejokta doesn't strike me as trustworthy either.  Maybe the memory-blurring left some remanents behind in Jaudrohk's brain, and his feelings are disgust at not being able to put them together. He wouldn't be surprised at something he remembered.  When considering a lie, one must consider the motivation to lie. Kejokta has one; if he can prove Jaudrohk is a liar, he gains favor with Nijre. But why would Jaudrohk want to flood the domes with lava and kill off Nijre and Co. ? Revenge on the Kuambu? And how would he know, even if he did wire the windows, that there was lava outside? And why did he close the windows so quickly if he wanted to take revenge on the Kuambu? From the evidence I have, it doesn't add up.  I guess it's possible that he could be working with the Kuambu, but why would the Kuambu want to flood the dome with lava? In fact, they played an active role in stopping the flood. Further, it occurred to me that a last ditch effort to escape would involve flooding the domes with the stuff to convince the Kuambu to flee and take their prisoners with them. And no, I did not miss that "yellow-forcefield" power refrence showing up again. Wonder what being has that Kuamor power for a soulsong. (And it does give a hint to the power source of the black metal tech, as the chronoseurum-in-sea-water idea is problematic. I go back and forth on it.) 4) Interesting that we are getting into the Mask of Light stuff now, right down to the earthquake and destruction of Ta-Koro. I wonder how Takua is going to find the Avohkii in that mess (if the thing is even still there). If the Kuambu have it or get it (is that why they are attacking the Brotherhood?), they will probably hand it to Takua on a silver platter with some persuasion (Positive or negative: may involve Rahkshi.) to put it on. 5) Theory: That the events of 2003 are going to be artificially produced by the Kuambu, with the "discovery" of Metru Nui as a result of the tendril creature, not a Makuta battle. Makuta isn't going to be seen again until his 2006 role, at least.  6) Theory: That the chime signals a Convergence; the bigger the convergence, the stronger the chime. 7)

The noises of this were enough that the army beyond should have heard it, but they were shouting and loudly firing weapons and powers at the maker of the even louder stomping noises.

  :lol: Good work; this chapter gave me a bunch of outlandish theorectical imaginings that amused me greatly. I will see if any of them have factual basis going forward. :) * * * Review Topic:  

They're the rejects.

 Interesting. What distinguishes one seemingly identical stone dome from another in terms of a Kuambu plan?  Thanks for answering my questions. Most helpful. :) 


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#51 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted Apr 16 2013 - 12:11 AM

1. Okay, so Vaurukan and the creature are separate beings. V made the creature. Got it. (Disappointed my theory didn't pan out, but that's all right!)

 

2. New chime theory. I re-read Chapter 21 to get a better grip of the implications of the creature's nature. My theory: chime itself could be a mechanical function of the creature. fishers64 suggested it was caused by the creature's tendril actions, but I don't see them lining up with the tendril action shown in story. So I'm proposing that the chime is more of an internal voice, sort of like the creature's 'cry.' However, I'm not saying the creature consciously uses this as its voice. It would be more like an incidental noise caused by various functions, but possibly also affected by the creature's thoughts. This could explain why it was regular and quiet while Nijire was in the maze (indicating regular, timely functions) but came back really loud when Kuambu, Rahunga, and Matoran were duking it out, as well as when the magma started dripping in because the creature sensed the (potentially dangerous to its well-being) activity and CHIIIIMed rather than chiming, like an alarm. Which it seems to be, really. I quote from Chapter 22:

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Each of those loudest chimes lasted the same amount of time, she thought. Over a minute. The other chimes varied.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]If those loud chimes are identical, then they could just be the 'danger chime' programmed to go off. The creature certainly is in danger now due to the magma, and could have felt it was close to danger due to the minor battle before.[/color]

 

3. Did the creature's movements, causing the internal earthquake, cause such seismic activity that it resonated up to Mata Nui and was the same earthquake Kopaka and Gali experienced? I'm just asking outright here.

 

Chapter 22: I'm really curious what the Kuambu use/do to get past the Crazolga slime (It's Crazolga, right?)... Is it a Kuamor? Or a power they have? Or just another slime variety that nullifies the nullifying slime? :P

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]“Teridax,” Rathoa said. “His name is Teridax.”[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]“Sorry... it's hard to get used to.”[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I can remember a few others here who had a hard time getting used to that. :P[/color]

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]It looked something like a raging stormcloud of blackness, boiling, parts moving away, parts moving toward them, now reversing, so that the edge of the massive stone Circle seemed to fade in and out of existence.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I wonder if you might call this quantum foam action on a macro scale? Is that how you conceive of the physics of the Circle boundaries? The visual is similar, anyway.[/color]

 

Sounds like Jaudrohk is an unknown in a bad way now.


Edited by Takuta-Nui, Apr 16 2013 - 12:12 AM.

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#52 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 16 2013 - 03:01 PM

Chapter 23. :)

 

1) The "tendril creature" is a machine? A robot? *pictures Vaarukan sitting in his palace and controlling the "creature" with a videogame controller* :) Or does it have a rudimentary clockwork brain?

I'll confirm it's a machine. The organic appearance is entirely illusion. As for the rest, it'll be revealed in-story.

 

The edge of the creature = the edge of the windows Jaudrohk opened?

Yep. :)

 

But why would Jaudrohk want to flood the domes with lava and kill off Nijre and Co. ?

This is assuming that Jaudrohk wanted it to happen; perhaps he was hoping she wouldn't think of that escape idea? And that the only goal of opening the windows could be to kill. There are several other possibilities, but I'll just let you keep theorizing for now. :P

 

I guess it's possible that he could be working with the Kuambu, but why would the Kuambu want to flood the dome with lava? In fact, they played an active role in stopping the flood.

Well, he was working with them so far as building at least the interior of the dome went. The actual answer here is fairly simple but again can't say yet.

 

And no, I did not miss that "yellow-forcefield" power refrence showing up again. Wonder what being has that Kuamor power for a soulsong. (And it does give a hint to the power source of the black metal tech, as the chronoseurum-in-sea-water idea is problematic. I go back and forth on it.)

Glad you caught that. It is a clue to something. No, has nothing to do with the black metal, though that's a good guess.

 

Theory: That the chime signals a Convergence; the bigger the convergence, the stronger the chime.

Yet another good theory I'll not comment on.

 

Interesting. What distinguishes one seemingly identical stone dome from another in terms of a Kuambu plan?

I meant the Matoran that were taken out were the rejects. The domes themselves were identical, they just picked two at random. :P

 

 

 

 

My theory: chime itself could be a mechanical function of the creature.

Very plausible.

 

It would be more like an incidental noise caused by various functions, but possibly also affected by the creature's thoughts... [color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]If those loud chimes are identical, then they could just be the 'danger chime' programmed to go off.[/color]

Just one comment -- the louder, longer chimes occur because the same thing that causes the others is happening, just more so. So it's not 'various' in that sense at least. Beyond that, perhaps. :P

 

Did the creature's movements, causing the internal earthquake, cause such seismic activity that it resonated up to Mata Nui and was the same earthquake Kopaka and Gali experienced? I'm just asking outright here.

Basically it had tendrils attached to the Mangai and the Watcher Temple, like an anchor of a boat, and the magma started it moving fast against its will, so the line drew taut and suddenly broke free. That was what caused the quakes on Mata Nui; the anchor suddenly ripping free from it. Most of the other impacts Nijire & co. felt were not the same quakes (although the lines going taut would be felt on that end too); those impacts did not cause that extreme of seismic activity, no. They were actually fairly gentle as these things go. There's no inertial dampeners in the creature so if it had been that bad, Nijire and co. would be dead.

 

Chapter 22: I'm really curious what the Kuambu use/do to get past the Crazolga slime (It's Crazolga, right?)... Is it a Kuamor? Or a power they have? Or just another slime variety that nullifies the nullifying slime? :P

This won't be revealed (as planned currently anyways) until the Kuambu finale.

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I wonder if you might call this quantum foam action on a macro scale? Is that how you conceive of the physics of the Circle boundaries? The visual is similar, anyway.[/color]

Essentially, yes.


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#53 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 17 2013 - 04:55 PM

Alright, this is going to be the last ridiculously long post in this topic by me, I hope. :)  

1) The "tendril creature" is a machine? A robot? *pictures Vaarukan sitting in his palace and controlling the "creature" with a videogame controller* :) Or does it have a rudimentary clockwork brain?

I'll confirm it's a machine. The organic appearance is entirely illusion. As for the rest, it'll be revealed in-story. 

>And no, I did not miss that "yellow-forcefield" power reference showing up again. Wonder what being has that Kuamor power for a soulsong. (And it does give a hint to the power source of the black metal tech, as the chronosearum-in-sea-water idea is problematic. I go back and forth on it.)

Glad you caught that. It is a clue to something. No, has nothing to do with the black metal, though that's a good guess. 

Interesting. What distinguishes one seemingly identical stone dome from another in terms of a Kuambu plan?

I meant the Matoran that were taken out were the rejects. The domes themselves were identical, they just picked two at random. :P

 

 Since the machine theory is correct, I'll cautiously float the idea that Nijre and Co. might be able to take control of said machine and escape the magma via a volcano or something? *pictures Vaarukan's volcano exploding as the creature bursts through it, the evil Makuta staring in confusion* Uh oh... The black metal does produce yellow forcefields, though, at least the black metal on the Seahopper anyway. There's some connection, I expect, but it's probably not relevant here. As for why the other Matoran were rejected, I'll theorize that it's a soulsong connection (Lightminds/Darkminds?) at work.  Chapter 23:  I really liked the Kopaka sequence. Much evil is brewed from the wrong perspective, and if you're failing, it's likely because you are heading the wrong direction with the wrong perspective. Of course, changing one's perspective and direction is fairly difficult, especially when in the midst of a frustrating situation ("I...just...want...this...to...work...already!"). You did a good job capturing that sort of thing there. @ Character Theories Are Usually Wrong :lol: :  

That had to be a side-goal. He couldn't imagine what it was, but he did have one idea why you would make such a strange prison. To contain a Makuta.

 

A greenish gas. Kejokta breathed its name, his tone of voice at once reverent and full of terror. “Makuta.”

 Nice try, bonesiii. :P  Okay, granted, it is just an "idea". But still... I thought of this back in the Kejokta scene where he easily contacted the evil mastermind (but thought it was too easy). Now I'm wondering what those two actually communicated - after all, we only have Kejokta's word for it. Not very convincing, at this point.  * * * Although I was very suspicious that you were throwing me for a loop, because I had some time to go reread EB, and just about every character theory stuck out like a sore thumb. (I'm about at Chapter 40 now on the rerun-though, and I still haven't found that ref to the expensive Kuamor.) But not all of the theories looked false, particularly Bhukasa's theories (of course, he's much like that real-life expert theorist I know :P). One, if proven false, is quite absurd (sorry for the loop back, couldn't resist):  

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Clearly saw a head. Of a… Ga-Matoran? Were the Kuambu [/color][/font]Matoran?No,[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"] he decided, noting that the Matoran had a spyglass too, [/color][/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]but wasn’t looking here yet. [/font]Probably some kind of mercenary or slave.[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]The Kuambu went to such lengths to keep their appearance a secret, it made sense [/color][/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]they’d save this highly visible job for another species.[/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]After what felt like a month to Bhukasa, as the Matoran’s spyglass [/color][/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]turned slowly closer and closer, rain started falling.[/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Bhukasa held his breath as the rain slowly built up strength – but [/color][/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]the Matoran was already looking right at him.[/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]She – assuming the Ga-Matoran was a she, although they could rarely [/color][/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]be male – put the spyglass down, and appeared to call down to other beings on the ship’s deck. Then she put the [/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]telescope back up and held it, right at Bhukasa.[/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]She waved, just before the rain obscured his sight.[/color][/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Bhukasa put his telescope down, exhaling explosively. [/color][/font]She saw me and let me know it.[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Was there a chance this was NOT a Kuambu ship?[/color][/font][color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]But no, how could that be? It was too obviously a combing pattern [/color][/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]with the fleet. Anything else would be too big a coincidence. No, he’d stick to the slave or mercenary theory. Slave [/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]would explain her wave, which didn’t seem unfriendly… but then how else could it seem, through the veil of starting [/font][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(40,40,40);font-size:12px;"]rain?[/font]

 In view of the fact that Lewa did not see a combing-pattern ship when he was watching the fleet approach later, I'm kind of stuck. The audience is supposed to assume that the crow's nest Bhukasa saw here is in fact the Kuambu ship which teleported behind Bhukasa's ship and fought him soon after. If that is not the case, going against Bhukasa's theory, we have a "Phantom Ship" floating about, which sports a Kuambu flag, can teleport or otherwise disappear, and just happened to be in a combing pattern with the Kuambu fleet. Really? Intriguing possibility; I see evidence both for and against. Am I overthinking this?  So I'm going to stick to the idea that character theories should be taken with a grain of salt, not necessarily true or untrue, and assuming either is the case is a analytic trap. Which is what I thought in the first place, but I suppose thinking about it has proved most helpful. Thanks.* * * And I dug this up when I was running some details. http://webcache.goog...n&ct=clnk&gl=us

Nixie jumped up, and walked over to the small telescope in her hut. Despite the bright blue sky, the crystal in the telescope was able to show her the stars, as if it was night. She pointed it towards the five new stars.What? Four of them seemed to be missing...She looked around in the area, and soon found them again. They had all moved South from the place where the fifth one was. And the four that had moved were the four that formed the Dome shape....Like.... Sinking! She stood up. "That's it!"

This might be more than just a Tarakava attack foreshadowing. Vaarukan moving those domes below the surface...? * * *  And since I have it in mind here and now, I might as well throw out a few of these Kuambu theories that I've been hoarding, since they apply to this story, and it will keep future posts to a reasonable length (And...on...topic! :)). 1) The clear-memory blurring Kuamor power is derived from the Kuambu's own soulsongs. 2) The prefix Kua- means "song". 3) The Kuambu have soulsong-sensing power, much like Hujo does, which they can use to find people regardless of where they are on the sea, or otherwise. 4)  Since emotion blocks and blurs/distorts memory, and the power of a song is the emotion it stirs up in the listener, the Kuambu's powers involve emotion, even if only in the poetic sense (pun not intended).They might even feed off the emotions of other beings, which would partly explain their strange behavior. 5) The Kuambu ships have flags that indicate the color of the captain of the vessel. For example, a red Kuambu captain would fly a red flag on his ship, while a blue one a blue flag, etc.Done.


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#54 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 21 2013 - 07:40 PM

 Chapter 24. :)

 

History retelling coming along nicely. Just finished the attack on Tobduk's village.

 

Also have worked some more on the Shards polls finally. Getting close to done with those...

 

So I'm going to stick to the idea that character theories should be taken with a grain of salt, not necessarily true or untrue, and assuming either is the case is a analytic trap. Which is what I thought in the first place, but I suppose thinking about it has proved most helpful. Thanks.

Right. I don't mean that they're always wrong. In that scene, it was a combing pattern of sorts but just because the Kuambu knew Ga-Koro was a bit more northernly, and the Lone Ship was not allowed to travel with the fleet, so the combing pattern only consisted of two groups (well, one ship and one group). Yes, that was the same ship, because the same Ga-Matoran was seen atop it.

 

Incidentally, it's good that you are thinking about that scene, as that character (R'yn) will be important in this story. :)

 

This might be more than just a Tarakava attack foreshadowing. Vaarukan moving those domes below the surface...?

Nice try, but no. :P

 

Actually, now that I look at that, that seems a bit inaccurate, as only the RS would actually move... I thought it said the RS moved so the others seemed to sink. Aaanywho...

 

1) The clear-memory blurring Kuamor power is derived from the Kuambu's own soulsongs. 2) The prefix Kua- means "song".

These are correct. :) To clarify: whenever they make a new Kuamor, which is always from some other being, they can either take a generic Kuamor, which settles on the basic Kuambu species soulsong "average", or the target's own soulsong. There's more to it, though, in (to use your wording) just how they "derive" this.

 

3) The Kuambu have soulsong-sensing power, much like Hujo does, which they can use to find people regardless of where they are on the sea, or otherwise.

I can confirm that they -- whether through a tool or innate, I won't say -- can in some way sense soulsongs. However, they can't find anyone anywhere, or they would have been able to find Bhukasa many times over after his escape, etc. There's a limited range to their sense, more so than Hujo's, but it's also better in a different way I can't say.

 

4)  Since emotion blocks and blurs/distorts memory, and the power of a song is the emotion it stirs up in the listener, the Kuambu's powers involve emotion, even if only in the poetic sense (pun not intended).They might even feed off the emotions of other beings, which would partly explain their strange behavior.

No comment, except that their sense of souls does of course involve emotion.

 

5) The Kuambu ships have flags that indicate the color of the captain of the vessel. For example, a red Kuambu captain would fly a red flag on his ship, while a blue one a blue flag, etc.

Correct. They also tend to have more of that color among the crew on the same ship, since the personalities of the three types are different and captains tend to get along better with members of their own type.


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#55 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 22 2013 - 03:04 AM

I'm in the middle of Chapter 48 of EB.  Still can't find a reference to any unusual Kuamor being used. I think from reading TI that chronoseurum had a soulsong, but I probably can't even find that story anymore. If it was revealed that way, I'll throw out that the Kuambu used Kuamor of that soulsong to manipulate reality near the end - blue sparkling energy. (Wait a minute...that actually applies to the Kal transformations in this story...blue energy...aha!) 

3) The Kuambu have soulsong-sensing power, much like Hujo does, which they can use to find people regardless of where they are on the sea, or otherwise.

I can confirm that they -- whether through a tool or innate, I won't say -- can in some way sense soulsongs. However, they can't find anyone anywhere, or they would have been able to find Bhukasa many times over after his escape, etc. There's a limited range to their sense, more so than Hujo's, but it's also better in a different way I can't say.

But the Lone Captain was able to find Bhukasa many times after he escaped.  

5) The Kuambu ships have flags that indicate the color of the captain of the vessel. For example, a red Kuambu captain would fly a red flag on his ship, while a blue one a blue flag, etc.

Correct. They also tend to have more of that color among the crew on the same ship, since the personalities of the three types are different and captains tend to get along better with members of their own type.

Interesting. Are red Kuambu more emotional and prone to go on rampages and blind quests for revenge? :P Chapter 24:  Kopaka, you should really know by now that any attempt to steal an ice sword from an enemy that has it and can use it against you will likely end in failure. Especially in the middle of a snowy and icey landscape that you can't control anymore. :P Except for the odd reason that Kopaka himself can't hang on to the thing - every time the reader gets a POV from Kopaka, his ice sword gets stolen. What is with that, anyway? Surely Kopaka has learned to hang onto that thing by now, and what is the Rahunga's obsession with it anyway? It's just an ice sword, not the Key to Ultimate Power. :P (And if does turn out to be the Key to Ultimate Power, then I will laugh my head off. :no:) And Onua's dream sounds a lot like Bhukasa's dream from the start of EB - they both follow a similar pattern, a small ship on a bigger ship, the smaller ship being unusual, and the small ship marking the character's location on the big ship's deck. One important thing that stood out to me was that Bhukasa's dream reflects the future - he was in the spot of the "small ship" in his dream in the future, after the dream was over. His "small ship" also speaks to a bit of his person - he had a bunch of internal "enemies" he was struggling against. Also that "small ship of enemies" reflects his future, surrounded by a possibly mutinous crew that he's not sure that he can trust. But that dream also calls in the past - the Rockswimmer squids and the Zivion were enemies that he had faced in the past. But Bhukasa also rediscovers his past in the future, so I'm leaning that direction. Also, the events that dream inspired repeated themselves in the future. I'm not sure what the upside down sky distortion is, but I think it has something to do with the Seahopper's secret - he sees below the water into the black metal part of the ship, maybe? Onua, by contrast, has a dream that seems to be all about the present. His dream-ship reflects his present position on the ship, and his vision affects his present position - a rock in the midst of a changing storm, unaffected by the Seahopper's speed and changes of direction. And the grassy hills, etc, are symbols of the Seahopper's current movement.   It also occurred to me that Onua very much lives in the present. Cut off from his past by memory loss, he also seems to have trouble seeing into the future to see how his actions will affect it. He does his best observing the present, his time of greatest insight. And he does have the Crystal of the Present on him. :) The dream reflects that.  Theory: That Bhukasa is a person of the future. He does think ahead. Not like Nijre, mind, but he does theorize. And the Crystal of the Future, should it ever be found, belongs to him. (Also, he is cut temporarily off from his past, so yeah?) Theory: That there is a person of the past, who, upon stepping onto the Seahopper, will have their "dream-boat"'s postition mark where they were in the past, and their dream reflect their past.  Granted, the dreams might just reflect on the character's psychology :shrugs: - I have to admit the Bhukasa "future" reasoning is bit flimsy. But whatever. Also, whatever power/thing causes these dreams changes reality to reflect the dream. For Bhukasa, it was the storm. For Onua, it was the strange inertial dampening he experienced. Which brings chronoseurum to mind.  I doubt this has anything to do with the black metal, at least not directly. Even though a couple things in EB made me think that the black metal was alive, I'm pretty sure it's just a computer. Which brings me back to the black-metal power source theories. If it's getting power from some being's soulsong, and that being has a mind (or a "sort-of" mind, like the crystal), it might be able to manipulate things through that metal to manipulate beings' minds to get into their dreams. And manipulate reality.  Of course, that "sort-of mind" could just plain flat be chronoseurum itself. :shrugs:  Also I noticed that Hujo was getting a lot of attention in this chapter. That brought Blue Eyes to mind. In a way, Hujo was involved in both of these dreams, but I think that's a throw-off. The Jahurungi was the answer last story. :evilgrin: Unless this all was a coincidence and means nothing. But it's still fun (for me, at least) to speculate about.


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#56 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted Apr 27 2013 - 08:55 AM

Basically it had tendrils attached to the Mangai and the Watcher Temple, like an anchor of a boat, and the magma started it moving fast against its will, so the line drew taut and suddenly broke free. That was what caused the quakes on Mata Nui; the anchor suddenly ripping free from it. Most of the other impacts Nijire & co. felt were not the same quakes (although the lines going taut would be felt on that end too); those impacts did not cause that extreme of seismic activity, no. They were actually fairly gentle as these things go. There's no inertial dampeners in the creature so if it had been that bad, Nijire and co. would be dead.

So basically Mata Nui the robot had strings attached to the camouflage mask on its face, that extended through its head to the magma behind, and when those strings broke, Mata Nui's mask wobbled a bit. Heh. :P

 

Although that does help me realize one thing: now that they know where the Matoran are trapped, everyone has a better 'big picture' of the places where things are happening right now. Even if some of those places are impossible to get to right now (the creature), knowing where they are is bound to lead to something else.

 

Chapter 23: Kopaka's cable ride was an amazing read. The story shifted so suddenly and yet very smoothly into a period of inaction. It should have been jarring, but this was written in such a way that the reader just got into the feel of the scene with Kopaka. I can already tell this will be a memorable section out of all your episodes.

 

Yep - Makuta's down there with them. The question (and maybe Kejokta is wondering this already): are they trapped in there with Makuta, or is Makuta trapped in there with them? ;) I honestly can't put it past the villain to already have a way out, and is just waiting for the right moment. Obviously he's in an incredibly hazardous situation, since even the Kuambu's teleport method might not protect his antidermis from the magma energy, thus burning him up if he tried to get out that way.

 

Chapter 24

If it was possible, they would then quickly seal off that weakness. Leaving Makuta trapped forever.

There we have it - the most plausible reason for everything she's been going through. I can only think of one flaw in the Kuambu's thinking if this is true: Nijire is a physical Matoran; Makuta is a gas at the moment. They're completely different states of existence... and so some things for Makuta (like passing through a tiny crack) is possible while it isn't for Nijire. I don't know if that really is relevant here, though. Additionally, Nijire might be inflating her own ego by making this all about her, as a psychological reaction to her confrontation with Kejokta where she realized that she does fear him. So this might just be a false clue.

 

Escaping by not escaping... makes sense to me here.

 

Onua is much too hard on himself... but we all knew that already.

 

He knew the first thing he would do – he had to know what happened to the other time crystal.

The missing one was the Future one, right? Since Onua has present and the creature has past. I bet Vaurukan has this one, since he is cooperating with the Kuambu and they seem to predict everybody's moves so incredibly well, as well as creating Convergeance by seeing ahead of time what they're supposed to do. Although when they do fail or seem to mess up, that could be attributed to the fact that the crystal can't be used everywhere at the same time. Plus, the Kuambu that spoke to Nijire did sort of drop that hint - why would the mighty Rulers of the Sea bother to cooperate with Vaurukan? The power of future sight would be a pretty darn good reason!

 

Neat moment with Onua in the Seahopper. Gotta mull on that a bit more.


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Updated October 23!

An Update Blog on the Chrysalis Saga

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#57 Online bonesiii

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Posted Apr 28 2013 - 01:43 AM

Chapter 25. The Destiny of Bionicle is now to Chapter 44 of planned 80. What I consider ancient history is done, up to the protodite-izing of Zaktan. Now starting what I consider modern history, with the invention of several things like Kanoka. 

I'm in the middle of Chapter 48 of EB. Still can't find a reference to any unusual Kuamor being used.

Since you went to such trouble to take up that hint, I'll give two more. It was spotted by Lewa (in a Lewa POV section). :) And the sighting of it caused the characters to make a different but also important conclusion (unrelated to what type of Kuamor it was), which closed out that POV section. 

But the Lone Captain was able to find Bhukasa many times after he escaped.

Yes, but through other, less reliable means. 

Interesting. Are red Kuambu more emotional and prone to go on rampages and blind quests for revenge? :P

Yesh. :P 

Kopaka, you should really know by now that any attempt to steal an ice sword from an enemy that has it and can use it against you will likely end in failure. Especially in the middle of a snowy and icey landscape that you can't control anymore. :P Except for the odd reason that Kopaka himself can't hang on to the thing - every time the reader gets a POV from Kopaka, his ice sword gets stolen. What is with that, anyway? Surely Kopaka has learned to hang onto that thing by now, and what is the Rahunga's obsession with it anyway? It's just an ice sword, not the Key to Ultimate Power. :P (And if does turn out to be the Key to Ultimate Power, then I will laugh my head off. :no:)

It actually IS the Key to Ultimate Power. :P*ahem* In all seriousness, it's really meant to be a theme, kind of like how Locke on LOST repeatedly lost control of his legs or had leg injuries, etc. It was kind of foreshadowing to the loss of power in the Kal Saga too. There's more to it, but it's not about the sword but the Btou core inside it. And something about Kopaka's personality to be explored more clearly in the finale of the whole series.Interesting theories and thoughts on the whole dream thing. I can say a few things.First, just to be clear, what Onua experienced was not actually a dream, while Bhukasa's was a real dream, with some things in it being more of just random dream nonsense. Some of your comments on the psychological meaning of that are correct. But Onua was experiencing something else, although it could be fairly called a waking dream in a sense.Second, I would have thought Bhukasa would be the person of the past if I had such a thing in mind, considering his story was so much about discovering his past. :P But I can turn down that whole theory. There's no inherent connection of any particular people with the past versus the present, etc. Although you're right on that Onua focuses on the present more than most (at least for now lol).And finally, yeah, Hujo isn't the answer this time. :P    

So basically Mata Nui the robot had strings attached to the camouflage mask on its face, that extended through its head to the magma behind, and when those strings broke, Mata Nui's mask wobbled a bit. Heh. :P

Right. 

Kopaka's cable ride was an amazing read. The story shifted so suddenly and yet very smoothly into a period of inaction. It should have been jarring, but this was written in such a way that the reader just got into the feel of the scene with Kopaka. I can already tell this will be a memorable section out of all your episodes.

Thanks. :) I hoped it would be too, and Kopaka will think back on it often. One of those neat tricks of the Arena Method that I totally didn't plan but when it came it just made perfect sense, heh. 

Yep - Makuta's down there with them. The question (and maybe Kejokta is wondering this already): are they trapped in there with Makuta, or is Makuta trapped in there with them? ;) I honestly can't put it past the villain to already have a way out, and is just waiting for the right moment. Obviously he's in an incredibly hazardous situation, since even the Kuambu's teleport method might not protect his antidermis from the magma energy, thus burning him up if he tried to get out that way.

As for the question I can't say much, except that just as a logician, I'd point out that it's possible (although highly unlikely) that both goals are equally important. If Makuta was hypothetically to get access to the Kuambu's teleporter (which is in the nose of the egg shape, outside the dome), he would not burn up. So the prison is basically the dome itself (technically, the sphere of which the dome is the upper half). 

There we have it - the most plausible reason for everything she's been going through. I can only think of one flaw in the Kuambu's thinking if this is true: Nijire is a physical Matoran; Makuta is a gas at the moment. They're completely different states of existence... and so some things for Makuta (like passing through a tiny crack) is possible while it isn't for Nijire. I don't know if that really is relevant here, though. Additionally, Nijire might be inflating her own ego by making this all about her, as a psychological reaction to her confrontation with Kejokta where she realized that she does fear him. So this might just be a false clue.

These are all good thoughts. There is good reason to think that the difference between a Makuta and a Matoran shouldn't matter. All physical exits normally open all the way or are completely closed, already tested to ensure gas can't get through when shut. It could possibly come into play if an exit only opened partway (like that one magma-damaged hatch) but the chances would be slim. 

[color=#000000;][font="helvetica;"]Quote[/color][/font]

He knew the first thing he would do – he had to know what happened to the other time crystal.

[color=#000000;][font="Helvetica;"]The missing one was the Future one, right? Since Onua has present and the creature has past.[/color][/font]

[color=#000000;][font="Helvetica;"]By "the other time crystal" I meant the Crystal of the Past, in the Watcher Temple, sorry it was unclear. This was mentioned a little before that line; Onua doesn't know what happened to it when the "anchor cables" drew taut and snapped loose. The last he saw, the end of one of those cables (tendrils) was attached to the crystal, so there was a chance, he felt, that it left the crystal unpossessed, still in the Temple. The alternative is that it drew that crystal down through the magma in a protective pull-in tunnel mode of the tendril (which is also what drew the Ko-Matoran in). They're heading there to find out which is the case.[/color][/font][color=#000000;][font="Helvetica;"] [/color][/font][color=#000000;][font="Helvetica;"]This doesn't disprove your theory here though:[/color][/font][color=#000000;][font="Helvetica;"] [/color][/font]

I bet Vaurukan has this one, since he is cooperating with the Kuambu and they seem to predict everybody's moves so incredibly well, as well as creating Convergeance by seeing ahead of time what they're supposed to do. Although when they do fail or seem to mess up, that could be attributed to the fact that the crystal can't be used everywhere at the same time. Plus, the Kuambu that spoke to Nijire did sort of drop that hint - why would the mighty Rulers of the Sea bother to cooperate with Vaurukan? The power of future sight would be a pretty darn good reason!

It would certainly explain a lot! I'll just point out that earlier, the crystal said it is pretty sure the Unknown moved the Crystal of the Future to some safer location, so it would also seem unlikely. Unless, of course, Vaurukan used to be an ally of the Unknown, trusted enough to own that safer location. :P And of course, if that location was the Unknown City, it could have been teleported away to a random location during Twisted Island and found by Vaurukan.


Edited by bonesiii, Apr 28 2013 - 01:59 AM.

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#58 Offline fishers64

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Posted Apr 28 2013 - 03:43 AM

Chapter 25: Lol @ how wrong I was about the ice sword.Is there a real connection between Haywire and pie? (Fauii cakes, anyway) Either way, that scene is pretty funny.This chapter is a bit slower, but I think I that's okay - with all the fast stuff for the last 23 chapters, kinda needed a breather. Also feel that this is leading up to something.

bonesiii, on 27 Apr 2013 - 23:50, said:

QuoteI'm in the middle of Chapter 48 of EB.Still can't find a reference to any unusual Kuamor being used.
Since you went to such trouble to take up that hint, I'll give two more. It was spotted by Lewa (in a Lewa POV section). :) And the sighting of it caused the characters to make a different but also important conclusion (unrelated to what type of Kuamor it was), which closed out that POV section.
Interesting. I'll have to look for that. Although if you thought I undertook rereading that massive thing solely to find that one hint...you have another thing coming. :shrugs: Aside from the character-theorizing bit, I suppose I can reveal one other reason: geography. Partly to just de-muddle it, understand the nature-of-the robot revelation better, and see if I can tell where Vaarukan's island is. :)EDIT: This is the reference?

Endless Blue said:Lewa noticed the red Vortixx carried a weapon in addition to the dual-cannon mounted on its back. And a sack with round things inside, glowing brightly enough yellow to shine through the brown cloth.“That weapon eye-seems like a Kuamor launcher!” Lewa said. “They had no suchthing before!”Ito agreed.With a shudder, Lewa realized what this meant.The Third Faction were apparently working with the Kuambu.But why?

Yellow Kuamor are expensive?

Edited by fishers64, Apr 28 2013 - 07:19 AM.

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#59 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 01 2013 - 06:41 AM

Chapter 26. :)

 

The next few chapters are closely connected, so I'll try to post in two or three day increments for the rest of Part Three. :)

 

Is there a real connection between Haywire and pie? (Fauii cakes, anyway) Either way, that scene is pretty funny.

Not "genetically" (as in, inherent to Haywire). Haywire remembers things from past hosts, and Tyaagko knew that he liked pie in general, so as he went insane, that personality quirk developed, and since Haywire remembers it, it gets inflicted on new hosts as well. It's a bit more complex, though, related to clarifications of how the host/parasite thing works as will be explained later.

 

And yeah, I know you weren't looking specifically for it. And in any case, even if you find it you'll have to wait for the explanation of what it does until at least two epics from now, so yeah. :P

 

Edit: Didn't see your edit. Yes, you found it! The context of it begins a bit before that, though. :) (Note that this is not the same Kuamor as the yellow one that makes bubble-barriers as seen with the giant hatches in this story. That is Trans-Yellow, while this is Yellow-White. There's also Yellow, which makes a blinding flash of light, and is not expensive either.)


Edited by bonesiii, May 01 2013 - 06:47 AM.

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#60 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 01 2013 - 10:28 AM

All finished moving. Hopefully spring term's single class makes a big difference for my schedule and I can respond to each chapter as it comes up. But two is better than three or five, anyway!

 

I did get confused about which time crystals were being referred to. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

Chapter 25:

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]That she felt a spark of pride at her success in this venture was obvious... but mostly she felt disturbed that she was capable of such a thing.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Based on your previous reply to my Nijire-Teridax comparison, I'm inclined to forget about the physical limitations that you pointed out are probably moot. Here, I sense a trace of Makuta-like plotting and calculation. While Nijire is certainly far from evil, she surely has a sharp intellect comparable to that of a Makuta. And she seems to be changing in a way forced by her circumstances to use trust itself as a tool, equal among other tools. In this way, Nijire may be compromising her values, or at least creating flex space. That brings her more closely in alignment with how a Makuta would think. Thus, the Kuambu can rely on her to think as much like a Makuta as she can, which may be the most effective method for identifying any weak points in the prison.[/color]

 

Good to see Kopaka back in his element! And Haywire makes a return. I found that to be a quirky part of EB that I enjoyed because it explored more of the biology/mechanics of the characters and environment.

 

Chapter 26:

Just don't lose the sword...

If I may correct that, I would say "don't give up the sword." I don't mean that Kopaka has voluntarily given it up before - that's obviously not true. But he has made choices, or been less careful, in ways that have led to losing it. In that way, he can simply do better. Don't make any choices or actions that risk his sword. Then again, risk sometimes is necessary to accomplish something. Here's hoping he manages to turn the sword into his true unshakable focus. ;)

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]“we had to make our way through six mazes. Hujo found the best way to handle a maze was to pick the right or left wall and always follow that side, wherever it took you, never to switch to the other side. Eventually we would come back to the middle one and then later the third. So pick left or right.”[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Gonna have to remember that for my video games. :P[/color]

 

The bit about a pile of lightstones - it does seem like a conspicuous way to hide the only exit from the submagmatic. Perhaps Akohre misinterpreted it, and it actually means a different kind of lightstone? A light-stone, as in a stone related to light in some way. I'm thinking of the totem that contained the Mask of Light. If the Kuambu really are in control of 2002/3 events as they seem to be, then it wouldn't be surprising that they already retrieved the Mask of Light from the cave by Ta-Koro. The submagmatic could have pulled it down while it was attacking the Mangai near the beginning, and nobody's realized it yet.

 

Another theory: light stones, as in stones that are lightweight. Floating stones? Don't really see an obvious connection to the plot here with this idea, which is why I'm sure the Mask of Light is coming into play sooner or later.

 

We shall see if Nijire's plan pans out soon.


Edited by Takuta-Nui, May 02 2013 - 03:11 PM.

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#61 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 03 2013 - 07:45 AM

Chapter 27.

 

Good thoughts about Nijire's Makuta-like strategizing. I can confirm at least that there is something intentional in that, which will be clearer later. :)

 

What I meant by "don't lose the sword" was more that it's something he has to hold in his hand, and the slightest loss of concentration could make him drop it, and then something could happen to get it away more so. But yeah, those are good interpretations. I kinda think I like the wording better as-is, though. :P

 

I can say that the reference did not refer to lightweight stones.


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#62 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 03 2013 - 01:09 PM

Hmm, the reference doesn't mean lightweight stones, but you didn't say anything about the totem possibility. Does that mean it's too close, if not the truth, for you to even make an encouraging comment? Well, the pile part does throw me off since there's only one totem. 

 

Chapter 27: Two comments... I'm guessing Onua just saw Vaurukan? Apparently the titan had a pet worm on a chain, so that would make sense.

 

The sharp pain in Kopaka's neck - not sure what that's about. I would research, but I don't know which meeting he referred to.


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#63 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 03 2013 - 07:10 PM

Chapter 26:
I see that Nijire has caught on to the idea that the rain is funneled up from the giant river. Theory: The water/ice serves as a cooling system for all the computers, since Magma and computers don't exactly mix well. 
 
Theory: The "creature"'s "brains" (if it has any) are stored in the machine/junk computer stuff. I think you came close to debunking this one, and it's kinda flimsy, but might as well throw it out there to make sure it's wrong.
 
Chapter 27:
I second TN's question: Lava Immune Titan = Vaarukan?
 
Theory:  That Nijire will eventually give into her conscience and go after Kejokta and Jaudrohk. Also, is Makuta mind-controlling Nijre?
 
The group seems to still be trying to escape, even though they are not trying to escape, as everything the group encounters points toward escape. 

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#64 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 05 2013 - 01:09 PM

Chapter 28.

 

This chapter takes a "break" from the normal plot to reveal some backstory, and this is the exception I mentioned at the start to the "only three POVs" rule for this story; this is the fourth POV. :) Some of the history revealed in this section also answers some of the minor remaining mysteries about the same events told of in Bhukasa's final flashbacks near the end of EB. We'll pick up with the present-day plot in the next chapter. I may post this after just one day's wait, as 28 and 29 are perhaps the most closely connected in the whole story.

 

 

Yep, Vaurukan just revealed himself to Onua. :) And we might ask... why? :P It is not a coincidence.

 

I see that Nijire has caught on to the idea that the rain is funneled up from the giant river. Theory: The water/ice serves as a cooling system for all the computers, since Magma and computers don't exactly mix well.

Yep. Although the coldfields put out by the tech obviously help too.

 

Theory: The "creature"'s "brains" (if it has any) are stored in the machine/junk computer stuff. I think you came close to debunking this one, and it's kinda flimsy, but might as well throw it out there to make sure it's wrong.

It's correct, but there's a distinction between the devices on the inside of the sphere and the outside. The "brains" are in the egg shape's nose section in the front, while the devices on the inside of the sphere are mostly related to other functions, non-essential to the operation of the vehicle. So, the ones Nijire's group could conceivable sabotage, for example, would not stop the vehicle from operating (though they obviously did affect propulsion speed since the magma damage was on the inside).

 

Can't comment on the rest...

 

 

Edit: And Chapter 29 -- with a big twist that's been building for several chapters. :)


Edited by bonesiii, May 07 2013 - 01:37 PM.

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#65 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 07 2013 - 03:26 PM

A big twist?! Time to read both chapters. Good timing too since they're apparently so closely connected.

 

Chapter 28: Haywire backstory! I enjoy these sorts of interludes that fill in a series of gaps.

 

Now the wandering eye is explained. Brilliant. It was all just an incidental compromise between host and virus. I always thought there was something more to it (and there might be in the symbolic sense just described here), but this revelation is superbly satisfying.

 

Also satisfying to get the literal inner perspective of Tyaagko's encounter with Haywire. That character has stuck with me after Endless Blue. Right now it's fun discovering the beginnings and history of the overarching plan that has been in play for ages!

 

Chapter 29: The revelation of the crystal's time-travel, creating an ontological loop (that's what this is, correct?), invoked a huge mental "OOOHHHHH" moment for me. :P Plus the time travel of the Toa's tools into what seems to be an utterly unreachable place anytime soon, and the temporary gateway for the submagmatic to initiate the Rumor in the past... that's a pretty stunning climax. Well done.

 

The only part I'm not sure about is how Vaurukan could have predicted the use of the Vahi so well. He probably knew of it from its creation and use in Metru Nui before the Great Cataclysm, but how could he have been so sure Vakama would give it to Tahu when he did? He certainly contrived many of the events to coerce the Mask of Time into a position where it would be ready at hand for the trap, but I can't help being skeptical. It seems like a series of pretty risky gambles... although that may be one strategy Vaurukan is comfortable operating in.

 

I'm tempted to try that fish trapping game/technique. It sounds sort of fun. 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]He had to rescue the crystal, [/color]and[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]] the Ko-Matoran.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Extra bracket.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Elemental masks. Awesome. I always wanted to write those into my stories but only ever got to mention them in passing.[/color]


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#66 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 07 2013 - 06:07 PM

Chapter 28: Marginally interesting reveal of EB points - it's an analytical snack.

 

Chapter 29: This chapter reeks of lameness. Maybe it's just because I'm in a bleh mood today, but here I am again witnessing the same EB time travel stunts in a manner that I do not exactly understand. I am so confused...the tools were transported back in time, where they were moved to the Krittunga's tower, and then transported forward? 

 

And that "voice inside my head" thing has been repeated now - first with the crystal, and then Haywire. I warn you, here it's starting to get old. And Nijire is fishing...and fishing...and fishing...and nothing exciting has happened for the entire chapter. I hope this isn't the climax because, if it is, it is a very lame climax. IMO.


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#67 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 09 2013 - 05:11 PM

Chapter 30.

 

Chapter 28: Haywire backstory! I enjoy these sorts of interludes that fill in a series of gaps.

 

Now the wandering eye is explained. Brilliant. It was all just an incidental compromise between host and virus. I always thought there was something more to it (and there might be in the symbolic sense just described here), but this revelation is superbly satisfying.

 

Also satisfying to get the literal inner perspective of Tyaagko's encounter with Haywire. That character has stuck with me after Endless Blue. Right now it's fun discovering the beginnings and history of the overarching plan that has been in play for ages!

^_^ Yeah, it was always symbolic in general of a schizophrenia-like condition, and in the sense of difficult choices. But I like to have things have physical causes. :P Also, there's a bit more to the biology (slash technology) to it that'll be cleared up later.

 

Chapter 29: The revelation of the crystal's time-travel, creating an ontological loop (that's what this is, correct?), invoked a huge mental "OOOHHHHH" moment for me. :P Plus the time travel of the Toa's tools into what seems to be an utterly unreachable place anytime soon, and the temporary gateway for the submagmatic to initiate the Rumor in the past... that's a pretty stunning climax. Well done.

I must say I don't think I've heard that term before, and google wasn't that helpful. Assuming you mean that the tools became themselves in the past, no. They were made by normal means, existed normally until now (in various strategic places since the Unknown knew this would happen), then traveled back in time, existing until now again (so there were two of each), and now they continue to exist normally, with only one of each. :) Hope that clarifies it. :P It's crazy, I know. :lol:

 

The only part I'm not sure about is how Vaurukan could have predicted the use of the Vahi so well. He probably knew of it from its creation and use in Metru Nui before the Great Cataclysm, but how could he have been so sure Vakama would give it to Tahu when he did? He certainly contrived many of the events to coerce the Mask of Time into a position where it would be ready at hand for the trap, but I can't help being skeptical. It seems like a series of pretty risky gambles... although that may be one strategy Vaurukan is comfortable operating in.

I so want to comment on this but I really shouldn't. :P You'll see very soon. Of course, the Rumor did give him some advance intel.

 

I'm tempted to try that fish trapping game/technique. It sounds sort of fun.

I suppose it might be. Disclaimer: (As far as I know) it hasn't been tested. :P

 

Chapter 28: Marginally interesting reveal of EB points - it's an analytical snack.

 

Chapter 29: This chapter reeks of lameness. Maybe it's just because I'm in a bleh mood today, but here I am again witnessing the same EB time travel stunts in a manner that I do not exactly understand. I am so confused...the tools were transported back in time, where they were moved to the Krittunga's tower, and then transported forward?

I sorry. :P But seriously, this was planned for a while, hence the clues about the twin sword in EB. I knew, though, that it could be a "love it or hate it" thing which is why I decided not to make it the focus of any story, it's kind of an aside thrown in the middle here.

 

Basically, Vaurukan realized that since Tahu had the Vahi (and I might as well reveal that he knew the Vahi was tied to the Kal in the Cosmos, and there's Convergeance), and that's a trump card that equals Kal losing, he had to find a way to use its time power against them. In this universe, getting the Bahrag free means getting the Tools, and the tools' cores could react that way, he learned. So putting two and two together, it was the only way he could see to get them away from the Toa once Tahu decided to use the Vahi.

 

Also, it should be borne in mind that this Saga is very intentionally exploring the physics of the substance chronoserum in various ways, and given the whole chrono part of that, it comes with the territory. The first Saga explored the substance rahudermis, and there will be something the third Saga explores too, as part of the "rhythmic patterns" style of the Paracosmos. Not all of that will be time travel, but it will be a theme occasionally. And given that the Vahi and Kal Saga are so linked I felt it was appropriate, but your reaction is certainly understandable. That's why I also kind of contradictorily prefer, sometimes, stories that don't use it. Anywho.

 

Also, to clarify, the tools were never at the Kriitunga tower. They appeared in the ocean where the island would one day be, in the distant past, and Unknown collected them and hid them in a cave on some random (unestablished) island to the south. Then they just sat there, where they remain (most of them; conditions caused the pattern to be messed up with Kopaka's sword and Onua's right claw so the Unknown had to alter the plan to keep things tidy for those). 

And that "voice inside my head" thing has been repeated now - first with the crystal, and then Haywire. I warn you, here it's starting to get old.

Yeah, that's kind of intentional in this story, actually. The theme of drawing it to a close will be played with as it moves forward. I'll be able to comment more later.

 

And Nijire is fishing...and fishing...and fishing...and nothing exciting has happened for the entire chapter. I hope this isn't the climax because, if it is, it is a very lame climax. IMO.

Oh, no. We're 18 chapters out from the climax. :)

 

Also, it is her job. :P Personally I prefer stories that constantly work to stay grounded in the dirt and survival if possible, because in real life while some people are busy saving the world, others are just struggling to get food to last the day, yanno? And I enjoy it when a character has to move into both roles when the situation calls for it, and when there's a challenge to overcome with imagination, LEGO-style, even in the mundane I enjoy writing about it. Plus the Nijire thread can't be the best all the time now can it? :lol:

 

Oh and by the way, there's more fishing for you in this chapter! :P But things are going to heat up soon...


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#68 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 09 2013 - 06:06 PM

And Nijire is fishing...and fishing...and fishing...and nothing exciting has happened for the entire chapter. I hope this isn't the climax because, if it is, it is a very lame climax. IMO.

Oh, no. We're 18 chapters out from the climax. :)

Excellent. 

Also, it is her job. :P Personally I prefer stories that constantly work to stay grounded in the dirt and survival if possible, because in real life while some people are busy saving the world, others are just struggling to get food to last the day, yanno? And I enjoy it when a character has to move into both roles when the situation calls for it, and when there's a challenge to overcome with imagination, LEGO-style, even in the mundane I enjoy writing about it. Plus the Nijire thread can't be the best all the time now can it? :lol:

 

Oh and by the way, there's more fishing for you in this chapter! :P But things are going to heat up soon...

 

It's all about a sort-of balence between excitement and the mundane. I normally would have liked the fishing cameo (hello? :lol:) but it came so sudden after all the repeats and wash-outs that the other character threads dragged it down. So, in an otherwise yawn-worthy chapter, it became something else for me to complain about. 

 

By contrast, in this chapter I liked the fishing...thus telling me that the fishing isn't the problem, it's the other problems I mentioned that are the problem. I rather liked how this seemingly mundane chore allows Nijire time to think - something I've known for awhile, so it's nice to see this explored. 

 

And, believe it or not, I actually liked Chapter 30. It's a bit more of a character psychological exploration than action...but I guess that goes that I like that kind of stuff, when I get it. :)


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#69 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 12 2013 - 12:12 PM

Responding to the Vahi part you commented on... I think I see now. Because the Vahi event occurred, it was already known that it would occur, but only because Vaurukan had been led in that direction by the Rumor. Thus it was a necessary step to initiate that Rumor in the past, and that made the Vahi event possible (or at least, much more likely thanks to the advance intel). Yup, it's crazy but fun to think about.

 

I might be getting a little confused, though. Is this Rumor the same as the one on the map Nijire found in the dome? If I recall correctly, we previously discussed and confirmed that the submagmatic is NOT the Rumor. But it was the submagmatic that sent the intel back into the past, right? You should be able to see where I'm getting mixed up.

 

To fishers64 - I sympathize with your impressions of that 'mid-climax' chapter. It was a lot to take in and in one way is pretty odd since there's not much preceding info to hint toward this step in Vaurukan's plan. We might be accustomed to picking up clues and predicting what may come next. But as bones admitted, this event pretty much came out of left field. I don't know if it's appropriate to call it an aside, though, because it does seem pretty pivotal. Then again, one doesn't necessarily need to understand it in order to understand the new urgency and goals the Toa have now. Like in LOST, there were times when events happened so quickly that I couldn't quite keep up, but I could still go along with the understanding that these people now needed to do these things due to changed circumstances. When that happens, I just do my best to go with it and enjoy it. Although this is different since we can actually have a dialogue with the maker of the story!

 

Last note, mostly for myself - still thinking about why Vaurukan would reveal himself to Onua. Obviously Onua's a central character in this episode, I'm just wondering what he's done to attract Vaurukan's attention or otherwise merit a close encounter. If it is because of something Onua actually did, I'm guessing it's related to his game of wits with the submagmatic. That might have impressed Vaurukan, much as Nijire's escaping skills impressed and attracted the Kuambu's attention. If it's not because of anything Onua did - in other words, he's a passive factor to Vaurukan - then I don't have much to work with as far as I can tell.

 

Chapter 30:

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]On the way, Hujo had commented to Onua that in the Cosmos, there were only three Legendary Elements, which were fundamental even to the other elements, but the rules here were different. He didn't mention this now in front of Rathoa.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]A loaded paragraph.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]1) Physics of Paracosmos are different in some fundamental "how the threads are woven" way that changes how Light, Time, and Life behave or influence.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]2) Rathoa having this knowledge is possibly a bad thing, or at least Hujo thinks it's not likely to lead to good things. Leads me to wonder if Teridax knows about this too, and thus the Plan would be different in some ways especially regarding the Mask of Life. If Rathoa had enough clues from his time with Teridax, he might be able to figure out the Paracosmos Plan more than anyone else. Intriguing possibilities.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]“Masks can break,” Taureko replied.[/color]

If I were Kopaka, my comeback would have been "Matoran can break." :P A bit dark, though.

 

Wow, heavy realization at the end. I'm with Nijire - it makes frighteningly good sense and matches up perfectly with the Kuambu's penchant for dancing the line of killing indirectly.


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#70 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 15 2013 - 12:46 PM

Here's Part Four starting with Chapter 31. :)

 

Re: fishing and stuff -- Yeah, it seems to be Nijire's way of sorting out confusing thoughts.

 

Responding to the Vahi part you commented on... I think I see now. Because the Vahi event occurred, it was already known that it would occur, but only because Vaurukan had been led in that direction by the Rumor. Thus it was a necessary step to initiate that Rumor in the past, and that made the Vahi event possible (or at least, much more likely thanks to the advance intel). Yup, it's crazy but fun to think about.

Right. However, Vaurukan still had to figure out how to use it tactically on his own, without Rumor clearly explaining it, to stop Tahu's use of the Vahi. All he knew was that this Vahi/chronoserum/Btou core reaction was both possible and would happen and when it would -- but not the 'where' or the situation surrounding it. Although Rumor did give some other details that Vaurukan needed to know for other purposes too.

 

I might be getting a little confused, though. Is this Rumor the same as the one on the map Nijire found in the dome? If I recall correctly, we previously discussed and confirmed that the submagmatic is NOT the Rumor.

Actually I used Unknown-style vague wording to trick you into concluding that, to avoid giving it away too soon. :P What I actually said was:

 

Third -- the creature is identified on the map a bit to the left of Rumor (the one with the brain texture, not the wavy outline), also with a number 1. Whether it is connected to Rumor or not as well, you'll have to read on for.

So, the submagmatic painting represented the vehicle the painting was made to be inside of. The Rumor part was a reference to the submagmatic's blurry form appearing in the distant past thanks to the Time Crystal to give that advance intel. The same thing but in two different senses, so in a sense the submagmatic is not Rumor. Rumor refers specifically to that one deep-past appearance of the blurred image of it, not to present-day appearances of that same image per se, and not to the vehicle in real spacetime in physical form.

 

But it was the submagmatic that sent the intel back into the past, right?

Correct.

 

To fishers64 - I sympathize with your impressions of that 'mid-climax' chapter. It was a lot to take in and in one way is pretty odd since there's not much preceding info to hint toward this step in Vaurukan's plan. We might be accustomed to picking up clues and predicting what may come next. But as bones admitted, this event pretty much came out of left field. I don't know if it's appropriate to call it an aside, though, because it does seem pretty pivotal. Then again, one doesn't necessarily need to understand it in order to understand the new urgency and goals the Toa have now. Like in LOST, there were times when events happened so quickly that I couldn't quite keep up, but I could still go along with the understanding that these people now needed to do these things due to changed circumstances. When that happens, I just do my best to go with it and enjoy it. Although this is different since we can actually have a dialogue with the maker of the story!

Well it may help to add that I never did plan to center much future plot on it, other than as the way to get the Tools away for the Kal to grab -- and to warn Tahu that he can't use the Vahi as in the Cosmos now to stop them at the Bahrag's prison. For the most part, whatever advance intel Vaurukan got out of it will be way in the background of future story. So understanding the exact details of it really isn't essential at all. :) Just if you enjoy unraveling really tangled time-messes, it's food for thought. :P

 

Interesting and useful-to-me thoughts about Onua's sighting of Vaurukan. Can't comment though. :lol:

 

Just FTR, you're aware the canon Legendary powers are Creation, Time, and Life, not Light? :P Also, by the Rathoa thing I basically just had in mind that he's not really an ally so they just have a general policy of keeping him in the dark about the existence of anything powerful he might later use against them. As for whether Makuta knows there are other Legendary powers, he almost certainly does, but no comment on how that might influence The Plan.


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#71 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 15 2013 - 07:29 PM

Oh yes - Creation. I forgot about that completely, so I just filled it in with Light automatically. See why I'm looking forward to your Bionicle History chronicle so much...

 

I think it might have helped your reader make the connection between the Rumor and the submagmatic by somehow mentioning the blur, or wavy image in the past. That could have cinched the connection to the painting without really giving it away completely. As it is, I rather enjoy being able to figure things out during or just beforehand instead of having to ask for clarification. I know that's a hard sweet spot to hit as a writer, though.

 

Chapter 31

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]There was a peddle system and various levers to switch gears.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]I think you meant 'pedal,' unless the ship somehow operates on the force of the free market. :P[/color]

 

The beginning of the journey to retrieve the Legendary Masks and the mention of Kuambu protections for those masks makes me think. All this time, they've mostly been struggling from within the cages designed for them. Kuambu arrived on Mata Nui and pretty much took control, while Nijire and the others have been in a more literal cage. In EB, the major cages were the island prisons. Now, they might have a chance where they can properly approach a Kuambu cage from outside.

 

It might not make much difference since the Kuambu do rule the seas and we can count that as one big cage. Plus Onua did try to get through one of theirs and failed. But this might be their first great united attempt to break a Kuambu prison from outside. The "big sea cage" factor aside, approaching the more physical traps and protections surrounding the masks might help determine something: Are the Kuambu really just as good at keeping people from getting in as they are with getting out?

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Onua got the impression the Kuambu chose who would go on what side just to see what would happen.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Could be... can't think of a better possibility after all this time. I think we discussed soulsongs, and either didn't have enough to make a real theory of that, or you refuted it?[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]“I don't sense them after that...”[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Taken. That's my prediction. Imagine I said it in a heavy and grim tone while staring in the distance...[/color]


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#72 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 16 2013 - 06:00 PM

Yeah...that was what got to me about the whole time-travel thing. It felt like something so complicated for something so small. Which makes it feel unnecessary, although it probably was necessary. :shrugs:   

Chapter 31 

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]There was a peddle system and various levers to switch gears.[/color][/font]

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]I think you meant 'pedal,' unless the ship somehow operates on the force of the free market. :P[/color][/font]

 Actually, could you clarify this? I thought it was "paddle", like paddles on modern cars that switch gears - the gear switching context gave me that. :lol: Although I suppose the "pedals" could work if the heatstones gave out to keep the Kanoka powers going, in theory, but probably not for long.  

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]The other Ko-Matoran agreed reluctantly to Nijire's plan, though Mukana and several others strongly disagreed with even considering helping Makuta escape.[/color][/font] “Look,” she said, “the truth is that even if we don't try to escape, the Rahunga are going to be a big problem. Worse if we do try, because we'll have to go back to the junk area. There's no good places to hide there.” “The caves,” Raitu said. “We could maybe barricade and disguise one.” “But my plan requires using that tower.” “Searching for a Rikaori would be worse, wouldn't it?” Teuara said. “For that we can use the caves – and we need to search the caves near that tower more thoroughly anyways to make sure we really have freed everybody.” “I don't want Ahku around,” Mukana said, “He helped Kanoka murder some of my fellow reformed Rahunga. I want him behind thick protosteel bars. And I don't want to wake Tokaali up until she's behind bars too, to be questioned at the very least.”

 This dialogue sequence is so weird. Nijire seems really confident in her plan, so much that she uses the plan to defend the plan, and doesn't even consider that another plan might be available. The other Ko-Matoran don't even consider that Nijire is crazy for doing this and depose her and make their own plan. I don't know how to explain this, but it seems like Nijire is redirecting people's thoughts away from their concerns and back to the plan by using "Unknown-speak" or slant-logic to overcome their misgivings without really addressing them.  

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]In any other village someone might have pointed out the obvious here, but they were all Ko-Matoran. No further discussion was necessary. And so, with a round of quick nods, they got to work.[/color][/font]

 [color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]I think this is another indicator of misgivings lurking under the surface. :shrugs:[/color][/font] I think the Kuambu removed all the Matoran from the submagmatic that would contest Nijire in influence as leader. Matoro, for example, is a pretty famous Ko-Matoran capable of thinking for himself.  Theory: The Kuambu want Makuta to escape. They seem to want convergance, and they put the one Matoran that could get him out in his prison. (Also explains why they left the Rahunga in there.) 

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Onua got the impression the Kuambu chose who would go on what side just to see what would happen.[/color][/font]

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]Could be... can't think of a better possibility after all this time. I think we discussed soulsongs, and either didn't have enough to make a real theory of that, or you refuted it? [/color][/font]

 Actually, there was a confirmation in EB that there are Lightmind/Darkmind soulsongs, but the Kuambu might not actually sort people based on those anymore. It has something to do with Kuambu philosophy, whatever that is.And in further case...

[color=#282828;][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"]The chef grinned. “Another Hafu original!”[/color][/font]

No fast flights towards unopened doors this time.

:PI'm just going to say that these one-liners did an excellent job of wrapping up the respective POV segments in which they occurred. I kind of felt like this chapter was supposed to be dark-and-creepy, but I just could not get that vibe.Probably because of the unexpected turn of events at Kriitunga island, Onua's fridge brilliance, and...


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#73 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 21 2013 - 10:26 AM

Chapter 32.

 

 

I think it might have helped your reader make the connection between the Rumor and the submagmatic by somehow mentioning the blur, or wavy image in the past. That could have cinched the connection to the painting without really giving it away completely. As it is, I rather enjoy being able to figure things out during or just beforehand instead of having to ask for clarification. I know that's a hard sweet spot to hit as a writer, though.

There's always the option of editing. That was supposed to be fairly clear, if memory serves, so if not it may warrant an edit. I'll have to review the Haywire flashbacks to be sure though.Yeah, meant pedal lol. 

Could be... can't think of a better possibility after all this time. I think we discussed soulsongs, and either didn't have enough to make a real theory of that, or you refuted it?

Unfortunately I've already forgotten what I have and haven't revealed on this subject. What I can say is that Onua is incorrect that they're just "seeing what happens." :P They have intentional goals for why they make those choices. I think I may have said that it won't really be crystal clear until the Kuambu finale. 

Taken. That's my prediction. Imagine I said it in a heavy and grim tone while staring in the distance...

I loled. :P 

Yeah...that was what got to me about the whole time-travel thing. It felt like something so complicated for something so small. Which makes it feel unnecessary, although it probably was necessary. :shrugs:

Well, small and complex has been an important part of chronoserum's history, actually. It may help if I reveal this (I forget if this was revealed yet or not already, though, but it's easily extrapolated from other reveals if not so not really spoilers) -- objects (rather than beings) placed in liquid chronoserum undergo various temporal effects, unpredictably. This ranges from slowing to speeding to going back in time much like what happened to the Tools here. Caroha discovered its temporal nature in the Cosmos by these simple small-scale experiments and this is why she named it chronoserum. :)Every time a test object went back in time it had the same basic effects as seen with the Tools here. So, this incident serves to help illustrate what that was like. However, these effects are only side effects of the real reason chronoserum is this way (which won't be revealed until the final finale).So, it's not essential for understanding the overall story arc but it is necessary. :)It wouldn't have absolutely had to be quite so complex (Onua's claw, merged with Lewa's axe, and the reverse weirdness with Kopaka and Toggler), and I realized that was unfortunate but the Arena method forced those.On the plus side, once this incident happened those complexities got erased, so after this story everybody will have their own Tools again. :P That's actually a theme in this story in fact of simplifying the overall Arena for the later stories, since so many loose ends have gotten so tangled previously. This is just one of several examples of that theme so far (getting everybody easier access to energy packs is another, so it's less of a headache to figure out who has one and who doesn't after this story). 

Actually, could you clarify this? I thought it was "paddle", like paddles on modern cars that switch gears - the gear switching context gave me that. :lol: Although I suppose the "pedals" could work if the heatstones gave out to keep the Kanoka powers going, in theory, but probably not for long.

Either could actually work in that context. I meant pedal, but the case for paddle is strong too. :P But I did see it as like bicycle pedals, actually turning the pulleys rather than switching gears, but I suppose there could be both, to switch to powering the Increase Weight hammers instead of Levitation to go down instead of up.

The other Ko-Matoran agreed reluctantly to Nijire's plan, though Mukana and several others strongly disagreed with even considering helping Makuta escape.“Look,” she said, “the truth is that even if we don't try to escape, the Rahunga are going to be a big problem. Worse if we do try, because we'll have to go back to the junk area. There's no good places to hide there.”“The caves,” Raitu said. “We could maybe barricade and disguise one.”“But my plan requires using that tower.”“Searching for a Rikaori would be worse, wouldn't it?” Teuara said.“For that we can use the caves – and we need to search the caves near that tower more thoroughly anyways to make sure we really have freed everybody.”“I don't want Ahku around,” Mukana said, “He helped Kanoka murder some of my fellow reformed Rahunga. I want him behind thick protosteel bars. And I don't want to wake Tokaali up until she's behind bars too, to be questioned at the very least.”

This dialogue sequence is so weird. Nijire seems really confident in her plan, so much that she uses the plan to defend the plan, and doesn't even consider that another plan might be available. The other Ko-Matoran don't even consider that Nijire is crazy for doing this and depose her and make their own plan. I don't know how to explain this, but it seems like Nijire is redirecting people's thoughts away from their concerns and back to the plan by using "Unknown-speak" or slant-logic to overcome their misgivings without really addressing them.

I actually had a feeling you'd take issue with that very section. :PWhat I had in mind is that they're all used to thinking tactically and so the answers she's giving are compressed arguments; leaving out certain premises along a chain of logic that the audience (meaning the Ko-Matoran she's speaking to) are presumed to be well aware of, and often would feel insulted if you bothered to say it as if you thought them ignorant. (This is considered acceptable within logic.) Also since they are Ko-Matoran, it makes sense they'd leave a lot unsaid. They understood what she meant by what she said, so the answers convinced them. So, despite sensing that this part might be tricky to follow I decided to do it that way, if only experimentally. :lol:However, you may be on the right track with your later comments based on this; Matoro might not have been so easily convinced for example. They definitely feel that Nijire is in charge by virtue of her reputation for getting out of things and that Matoro is gone, and despite Mukana's turnaround the fact that he was a Rahunga has taken him down quite a few notches in terms of viewing him as a leader. And the Kuambu are aware of this.But I won't comment yet on what the Kuambu would hope she would be convincing them of, as that could work for whatever argument she was making. And it's possible that it's just a possible scenario the Kuambu were okay with rather than their actual goal. :PAlthough I have to say, I do think they worried she might be crazy but felt that it was so audacious that the boldness of it alone impressed them that she must have a good reason for it, so nobody felt anything like that was worth saying (really, how would you bring it up -- "Nijire, the death of Pakastaa just drove you nuts"? :P They are desperate for her to free them; they don't want to offend her even if they fear it's true). And she did mention the obvious danger with being at odds with Ahku & company. 

I think the Kuambu removed all the Matoran from the submagmatic that would contest Nijire in influence as leader. Matoro, for example, is a pretty famous Ko-Matoran capable of thinking for himself.     Theory: The Kuambu want Makuta to escape. They seem to want convergance, and they put the one Matoran that could get him out in his prison. (Also explains why they left the Rahunga in there.)

We're getting down to the wire so it's especially crucial I not comment much. Just wondering how you would answer the obvious question to that theory, which is why would they not just let him go if they want him out? And theoretically they could force him to act in such a way as to bring convergeance with him still in their custody. 

I kind of felt like this chapter was supposed to be dark-and-creepy, but I just could not get that vibe.

Not really, as far as I recall (I've been proofreading way ahead this past week so my memory of this chapter is no longer fresh though :P).


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#74 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 21 2013 - 04:29 PM

Chapter 32: About the glass covering the sun holes - I would think they're very resilient, since they're located in wild terrain most of the time. Avalanches and landslides would happen, or even a big bird falling from the sky. That brings up the question of how the glass stays clean. A self-cleaning power similar to the Kuambu's repelling slime, so any rocks and stuff get pushed off it if they linger too long? That lets Onua and Rathoa run across it, but a stationary rock would eventually be "detected" and then pushed off. Just wondering if you've already thought of this.

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]When Rathoa released them they enveloped the masks – anchoring their form – and went on to cause all kinds of trouble.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Makes me want to re-read Twisted Island. :D I'm pretty sure I'll re-read the entire series sometime this year or next, to better refresh myself for the final episodes.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Ah, we have our first in-story Ri-Rali reference now, yes? ;)[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]“Maybe I'll hearstay too...”[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Did you mean "[/color]herestay"?

 

Good work describing the door system and exploring the rules and dangers. Maybe you should keep this section handy as a miniature example of the Arena Method!

 

Edit - Just a quick note that I just made the very belated connection between Haywire entering Kopaka and the random pain in his neck in Kopeke's den. I was still wondering about that today and then I realized. Silly me. :P

 

Second, I went over the Vahi scene again and noticed something that is perhaps not 100% clear. The Vahi's chronoserum-infused energy struck all the Toa tools plus the Time Crystal - but the shockwave was a flash freeze, not a flash flood or fire etc. Why was this? Was it because Kopaka had thrown his sword while everyone else's tools were passive? Or just a natural effect of time travel where the heat energy of the area is sucked out?


Edited by Takuta-Nui, May 24 2013 - 08:06 PM.

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#75 Offline fishers64

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Posted May 22 2013 - 10:25 AM

I actually had a feeling you'd take issue with that very section. :P

I loled. If I have a reputation with you for being critical about unusual things like that, it is probably well deserved. :P But I'm not taking issue with that as much as wondering at what it was, and you did clear that up. (I haven't seen anything quite like that before, so yeah. Also, wasn't sure I was supposed to "get it" right off - I'm more likely to get out the critical firebrands when I feel like I'm supposed to understand something and I don't.) 

Theory: The Kuambu want Makuta to escape. They seem to want convergance, and they put the one Matoran that could gethim out in his prison. (Also explains why they left the Rahunga in there.)

We're getting down to the wire so it's especially crucial I not comment much. Just wondering how you would answer theobvious question to that theory, which is why would they not just let him go if they want him out? And theoreticallythey could force him to act in such a way as to bring convergeance with him still in their custody.

 Psychological manipulation, perhaps like Teridax's "faked" defeats, deceiving the enemy into thinking that the Kuambuare after something that they aren't. (How ironic.) The whole thing seems to mess with Nijire's head pretty badly, and others are taking actions partly based on the fact that the Kuambu have him down there, so their desire to manipulate events might come into play. It also seems like they are trying to throw their enemies off balance by trying to contain a villain none of the main characters want running around. They also might wish to delay his release until a specific time, as their convergance plans require. 

 

Edit: The Kuambu might also want to delay ticking off Vaarukan, who apparently wants Makuta to stay trapped, or to provide an excuse for him getting out (It was the Matoran/Rahunga! We had nothing to do with it, oh great one :P).  Chapter 32:

Kopaka frowned, and switched to his Mask of Translation. Immediately the meaning became clear. The others looked at him, and he merely nodded, but kept his frown, and switched back.

Is that Kopaka merely verifying Taureko's translation, or is the meaning something else that Kopaka isn't sharingwith us?


Edited by fishers64, May 24 2013 - 08:25 PM.

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#76 Online bonesiii

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Posted May 27 2013 - 03:45 PM

33.

 

That brings up the question of how the glass stays clean. A self-cleaning power similar to the Kuambu's repelling slime, so any rocks and stuff get pushed off it if they linger too long? That lets Onua and Rathoa run across it, but a stationary rock would eventually be "detected" and then pushed off. Just wondering if you've already thought of this.

That isn't a bad idea, but what I had in mind is that they're slightly convex, so any plant particulate and/or dirt will naturally be washed to the edges whenever it rains. Large rocks and the like are (generally) unlikely to end up there anyways, but if they did they would probably bury it eventually same as the eyeholes of the giant robot got buried. 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Ah, we have our first in-story Ri-Rali reference now, yes? ;)[/color]

It was mentioned in Agents of Surrender too. :)

 

Yeah, meant herestay. Must have got it mixed up with "hearsay" lol.

 

 

 

Fishers, reasonable answers. Not much more to say now though. Other than there's a reason I'm loling that I can't say. :P

 

Is that Kopaka merely verifying Taureko's translation, or is the meaning something else that Kopaka isn't sharingwith us?

Just meant verifying, yeah.


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#77 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted May 28 2013 - 01:49 PM

Bones - I think you missed my edit in my last post, asking about the flash freeze effect of the Vahi. Will you comment on that? [holds out microphone]

 

Chapter 33: With the revelation that Takua's destined to be a Toa, I'm more convinced that the Mask of Light is going to come into play in this story. Or at least, it will make a somehow shocking appearance at the end as a cliffhanger. Otherwise, it might just have been the Arena that compelled you to reveal this now.

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]They narrowed their eyes and glared at him for a while, then finally looked reserved to this fate.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Did you mean resigned?[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]If he was right... then he could teleport to the submagmatic. Free the crystal. Free the Ko-Matoran. Have Makuta moved, given to the Unknown. Perhaps even help the other Toa Nuva. Yes. He was sure more than ever he was following the right path.[/color]

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;]Probably the most important breakthrough in Onua's plan and his self-esteem. Yet, I'm sure the Kuambu have anticipated this possibility. It opens a gaping hole in their plan, so they've surely already begun preparing for this possibility.[/color]

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;][/color]

To her great surprise, she continued to be able to communicate with the Toa.[/color]

 

To her great dismay, she continued to be able to communicate with the Toa.

This might be a really good summation of the sensation of being in a Kuambu cage. Good things collide with bad things in a seemingly irreconcilable contradiction.

 

Whoop whoop. A lot happened here but I'm following well!


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#78 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jun 03 2013 - 06:18 PM

Chapter 34.

 

Update of TDoB -- now starting on Tuyet's betrayal. Have just finished some of the most significant and difficult-to-write chapters for the non-canon mystery the story's centered around. If checking canon sources don't slow me down too much the rest should go fast now as I've got some of the key details hammered out that I didn't at first. (But no promises. :P)

 

Bones - I think you missed my edit in my last post, asking about the flash freeze effect of the Vahi. Will you comment on that? [holds out microphone]

Right, sorry. That's what I get for having the topic up all week and not refreshing. :P

 

Second, I went over the Vahi scene again and noticed something that is perhaps not 100% clear. The Vahi's chronoserum-infused energy struck all the Toa tools plus the Time Crystal - but the shockwave was a flash freeze, not a flash flood or fire etc. Why was this? Was it because Kopaka had thrown his sword while everyone else's tools were passive? Or just a natural effect of time travel where the heat energy of the area is sucked out?

The latter -- it's an allusion to Back to the Future. :) I always liked the idea that actual time travel would be a dramatic event with large-ranging consequences just in the physical reaction to the action (without getting into paradox issues and the like). Emphasizes that it's not easy or safe, and IMO grounds it so it's not just some ethereal thing.

 

Chapter 33: With the revelation that Takua's destined to be a Toa, I'm more convinced that the Mask of Light is going to come into play in this story. Or at least, it will make a somehow shocking appearance at the end as a cliffhanger. Otherwise, it might just have been the Arena that compelled you to reveal this now.

I held off on saying this until the Takua revelation (which was indeed totally the fault of the Arena method; I didn't plan it), but the Mask of Light won't be featured until Kuambu Saga episode #4 (calling EB #1). Might as well make that plain now so any false hopes don't live too long. :P (Takua/Takanuva will be one of the main POVs for that story, though not the primary.)

 

Yeah, meant resigned.

 

This might be a really good summation of the sensation of being in a Kuambu cage. Good things collide with bad things in a seemingly irreconcilable contradiction.

Indeed. ^_^

 

Edit:

 

Chapter 35. :)

 

TDoB now starting Morbuzahk. All ancient history done!


Edited by bonesiii, Jun 10 2013 - 11:18 PM.

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#79 Offline fishers64

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Posted Jun 11 2013 - 01:38 PM

Theory: Both the Kuambu and the Brotherhood are chasing R'yn. However, the Kuambu do NOT want R'yn to fall into Brotherhood hands. I think the Kuambu who was following R'yn purposefully misled Kanoka so R'yn could escape. (Although there are so many possibilities there...).

 

 

[color=rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:14px;]As Kopaka fell toward the sand, he imagined anything possible rescuing him at the last second.[/color]

 

His shield materializing under him and him landing on it, somehow keeping his limbs up.

 

Tahu sharing his mask power with him and the wall of energy protecting him from the sand.

 

Maybe it would just be plain old sand.

 

Gali might leap over Takua and hooking Kopaka's shoulders with her Tools.

 

Pohatu zooming through the wall.

 

In reality, what happened wasn't noticed by the others until it was too late, Kopaka didn't have time to materialize anything, and the sand really was mutagenic.

 

Leaning on the fourth wall? :P Also feel the Arena Method strongly at work here (and in this entire chapter). Probably just because I got back into writing again. :shrugs:  


Edited by fishers64, Jun 12 2013 - 10:23 AM.

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#80 Offline Takuta-Nui

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Posted Jun 14 2013 - 09:35 PM

Got delayed by my final paper. All done, just needs revision. On Monday I'll officially be no longer a full time student. Two classes left for fall and winter terms. :)

 

Chapter 34: A lot happened here, but I don't have a lot to say. I'm guessing the sand isn't mutagenic after all - that was just to give us a scare, and was a reasonable precaution by the characters to assume it is mutagenic. Perhaps it has a different effect we'll find out about.

 

Hope to catch up on 35 this weekend.

 

Chapter 35: Dang, it was mutagenic after all. Thought you'd be pulling a trick there, bones - but I see now that this is poetic irony since Kopaka had just expressed his deep opposition to a second mutation. So of course he would get mutated again. Poor guy. I can see this taking a similar path to Hujo's mutation from Twisted Island, though: it's like a final warning to Kopaka, and what seems to make him weaker will only make him stronger if he remains resolute. Here, Haywire is such a mixed ally: physically/physiologically an involuntary enemy to Kopaka's body and mind, but psychologically a friend who might just help him survive this.

 

I can only say I'm glad Onua didn't take me along for tracking... I would have been no good in such a complicated situation. :P

 

Chime again. I think I just need one more clue to figure out what it means... maybe a bit of review is in order too. I certainly have the time given that I handed in my final undergraduate political science paper today. :)


Edited by Takuta-Nui, Jun 17 2013 - 10:56 PM.

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