Red Star malfunction planned?

[Dual Cee]

I tought about this last night: What if the malfuntion of the red sar was planned by the Great Beings as yet another failsafe. If a large amouth of bad guys appeared in the universe the red star would stop working to prevent the evil beigns to return and start all over again.This theory could work because Greg stated the red star stopped working a long time ago, And a long time ago the league of six kingdoms was formed.EDIT:The GB's placed the Kestorra in the star to check if the beings that were sended there were evil or not, if they were evil they had to be locked upin the star, and then be analysed by the kestorra, if they were good they should have been manually send back by the kestorra. But the kestora weren't able to use the manual sendback due a lack of training because of the early departure of the Grait Spirit Bot. So after the automatic sendback was turned off the Kestora went mad due overpopulation. Some of the most desperate kestora tried to master the manual sendback but they accidently sent themselves to the City Of Silver. It is just a theory though...

Edited November 24, 2012 by Toa Temporal

[Wordmeister]

Pretty much what we were saying on the Velika's Plan topic, but nice to have another topic for it.And yes, this theory makes sense, except for one minor detail: GregF said that Lihkan was on the Red Star. If that were true, then the Red Star would still be functional. Or it was programmed to leave the evil beings dead while the good were revived. However, that would require some pretty complex programming to make work.Now, some might argue that the great beings are able to do anything, but they obviously can't. If they could, then Spherus Magna would never have broken up because they would have stopped it. Along with other incidents, it can be assumed that the great beings are not gods (or something similar) but simply begins with the power to create. For all we know, they could be Toa-like beings wearing masks of creation. Or they could be meant to be humanity, like us, the builders/fans/designers.Anyways, it is simple enough to say that the great beings do not have the power to create that kinda code, so they either had to program it, or your theory doesn't really work.Don't get me wrong, this is a very interesting and plausible theory, it just has a few holes in it.

[The Legendary TNT]

I think he means the send-back malfunction, not revival all together.Remember, the only thing wrong with the Red Star, mechanically (that we know of), is that the send back is broken. People could die and go to the Red Star as much as they please. (Sorta)

Edited November 23, 2012 by TNT-DJ Vezon

[Dual Cee]

Well it could be the GB's just made a sendback malfunction so they could analyse what went wrong with the mad beings

[Chro]

If that were true, then the Red Star would still be functional. Or it was programmed to leave the evil beings dead while the good were revived. However, that would require some pretty complex programming to make work.

Nope. TNTDJV is right- only the send-back system is broken, the revival system is fine.This is an interesting idea, Temporal, though like Delta said there are some holes (but not the ones he meant, necessarily). One major flaw I thought of is that if the GBs wanted to study or get rid of "bad guys", then they'd likely stay on the Star to observe; even if they didn't do that, they should have some way of getting results. However, no such thing happened, and the maintenance of the Star was left up to the kestora, who IMO were quite... irresponsible, if they were supposed to study things. You don't mess with a working system in order to stop villainy, then expect to figure out what's going on after leaving the system in the care of unintelligible murderous purple midgets.You could of course counter this by saying that the kestora were put on the Star to destroy the evil beings revived there. That still doesn't account for the facts that a. the kestora were (almost certainly) present on the Star since its creation, and b. they would still (attempt to) kill anyone who showed up, regardless of their moral compass. And pertaining to that last one, I really doubt that the GBs would risk losing so many Matoran and other non-evil revived people in order to get rid of the truly bad ones.

[Dual Cee]

If that were true, then the Red Star would still be functional. Or it was programmed to leave the evil beings dead while the good were revived. However, that would require some pretty complex programming to make work.

Nope. TNTDJV is right- only the send-back system is broken, the revival system is fine.This is an interesting idea, Temporal, though like Delta said there are some holes (but not the ones he meant, necessarily). One major flaw I thought of is that if the GBs wanted to study or get rid of "bad guys", then they'd likely stay on the Star to observe; even if they didn't do that, they should have some way of getting results. However, no such thing happened, and the maintenance of the Star was left up to the kestora, who IMO were quite... irresponsible, if they were supposed to study things. You don't mess with a working system in order to stop villainy, then expect to figure out what's going on after leaving the system in the care of unintelligible murderous purple midgets.You could of course counter this by saying that the kestora were put on the Star to destroy the evil beings revived there. That still doesn't account for the facts that a. the kestora were (almost certainly) present on the Star since its creation, and b. they would still (attempt to) kill anyone who showed up, regardless of their moral compass. And pertaining to that last one, I really doubt that the GBs would risk losing so many Matoran and other non-evil revived people in order to get rid of the truly bad ones.

Smart, give me a day and i'll find the solution to these problems

[Chro]

Smart, give me a day and i'll find the solution to these problems

Go for it.To back up my last point, there's some very concrete extra proof that the GBs wouldn't want to waste Matoran (etc.)- the creation of the Red Star in the first place. Why make it if it's just going to get rid of people? Otherwise they should just let them stay dead.Another new idea I have is that if the return function being broken was intentional, it would ruin the point of the Star (not the planetary boost function, but the revival, of course). Why revive them to kill them again?... better to let them stay dead. There's another hole in the theory.I think it would be neat if they had some selective-revival ability, but I have no idea how it'd work.

[The Iron Toa]

I wonder how this and what we know about the Red Star ties in with MU inhabitant reproduction. The GBs must have developed the mysterious machines used to bring new Matoran, etc into being. I wonder if that has anything to do with the Red Star, and if they planned for that system to be necessary, maybe they planned for the Red Star to stop working.

[Chro]

I wonder how this and what we know about the Red Star ties in with MU inhabitant reproduction. The GBs must have developed the mysterious machines used to bring new Matoran, etc into being. I wonder if that has anything to do with the Red Star, and if they planned for that system to be necessary, maybe they planned for the Red Star to stop working.

While I don't agree that the return function fail was a deliberate safeguard, that could very well have been- the creation of new Matoran in addition to the return of dead ones would just continually make more workers to keep the MU running. Now, I doubt that the two systems are supposed to work in unison, but they could easily be related (then again, so is literally everything to do with the Mata Nui robot...).It's good to remember here that the GBs designed everything as one big machine (and a ton of lil' ones inside) instead of a universe, and the Matoran as help to run it rather than inhabitants of it. Sometimes I (almost) forget that.

[fishers64]

I think that the Star was broken by someone evil. Because the nature of evil means that more non-evil people are going to get killed. You want those people back to fight the evil people, right? An evil person would want all the revived beings trapped on the Red Star so they can't come back and fight him.

I wonder how this and what we know about the Red Star ties in with MU inhabitant reproduction. The GBs must have developed the mysterious machines used to bring new Matoran, etc into being. I wonder if that has anything to do with the Red Star, and if they planned for that system to be necessary, maybe they planned for the Red Star to stop working.

I think it is more likely that Artahka developed such machines on his own when the Star stopped working. (Artahka was probably pretty irritated when it didn't work anymore, as his best creative minds couldn't come back after fatal accidents.)Or maybe the Great Beings left such machines in the universe, as a contingency in case Mata Nui needed more Matoran for whatever reason. When the RS malfunctioned, somebody activated them. Who knows what Mata Nui is going to need, exploring planets for 100,000 years, and a big repair job at the end? He might need more Matoran to do something.

[Chro]

I think that the Star was broken by someone evil. Because the nature of evil means that more non-evil people are going to get killed. You want those people back to fight the evil people, right? An evil person would want all the revived beings trapped on the Red Star so they can't come back and fight him.

Yes, but how so? I was under the impression that it malfunctioned or broke on its own, not that someone messed with it. Everything's possible, of course.

[fishers64]

I think that the Star was broken by someone evil. Because the nature of evil means that more non-evil people are going to get killed. You want those people back to fight the evil people, right? An evil person would want all the revived beings trapped on the Red Star so they can't come back and fight him.

Yes, but how so? I was under the impression that it malfunctioned or broke on its own, not that someone messed with it. Everything's possible, of course.

Well, someone died, came back, thought something to the effect of "Wow, it is amazing that I just came back from the dead. But my enemies can come back too. This isn't good. So I ( ) have a better plan to torture Enemy X. I will allow him to be revived, but he will be trapped on the Red Star forever. MUHAHAHA!!!"The hypothetical evil dude in question would have teleportation powers.That doesn't rule out the other possibilities - I've heard a fair number of good arguments that permanent death helps prevent the spread of evil, and perhaps the GBs realized this. But they didn't interfere when Makuta busted the universe either, so I kinda lean against it and more towards someone inside the universe deciding to consign their enemies to eternal torture. (That would explain the murdering midgets...yeah. Although if they were murdered, wouldn't they just come back? Unless they got pulverized.)Why would any good guys break it? Unless they accidently busted something...somewhere... Edited November 24, 2012 by fishers64

[Chro]

Good points. Lovin' the pseudo-creepy monologue.I wasn't necessarily thinking of somebody intentionally breaking it. With all the spectacular feats of engineering the GBs pulled off, it makes sense for them to have some significant mistakes somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of unforeseen strain put on the Star's systems causing that to happen.I was actually thinking of including something about this in a story I'm (slowly) writing, so I may have to work this in there. XD

[The Iron Toa]

I think it is more likely that Artahka developed such machines on his own when the Star stopped working. (Artahka was probably pretty irritated when it didn't work anymore, as his best creative minds couldn't come back after fatal accidents.)Or maybe the Great Beings left such machines in the universe, as a contingency in case Mata Nui needed more Matoran for whatever reason. When the RS malfunctioned, somebody activated them. Who knows what Mata Nui is going to need, exploring planets for 100,000 years, and a big repair job at the end? He might need more Matoran to do something.

I like the idea that Artakha made them when the Red Star stopped working. But the Great Beings might have made those machines to replace beings that didn't have anything left of them to resurrect, too.

[Dual Cee]

New Ideas check above! :)

[fishers64]

EDIT:The GB's placed the Kestorra in the star to check if the beings that were sended there were evil or not, if they were evil they had to be locked upin the star, and then be analysed by the kestorra, if they were good they should have been manually send back by the kestorra. But the kestora weren't able to use the manual sendback due a lack of training because of the early departure of the Grait Spirit Bot. So after the automatic sendback was turned off the Kestora went mad due overpopulation. Some of the most desperate kestora tried to master the manual sendback but they accidently sent themselves to the City Of Silver.It is just a theory though...

I doubt that there was a "manual sendback", otherwise the Kestora would have used it. And I think the GBs, if their was some sort of manual sendback, would have programmed the Kestora to be able to operate it. Unless there was some outside interference that caused them to not program them or to lose that knowledge.

[Wordmeister]

EDIT:The GB's placed the Kestorra in the star to check if the beings that were sended there were evil or not, if they were evil they had to be locked upin the star, and then be analysed by the kestorra, if they were good they should have been manually send back by the kestorra. But the kestora weren't able to use the manual sendback due a lack of training because of the early departure of the Grait Spirit Bot. So after the automatic sendback was turned off the Kestora went mad due overpopulation. Some of the most desperate kestora tried to master the manual sendback but they accidently sent themselves to the City Of Silver.It is just a theory though...

I doubt that there was a "manual sendback", otherwise the Kestora would have used it. And I think the GBs, if their was some sort of manual sendback, would have programmed the Kestora to be able to operate it. Unless there was some outside interference that caused them to not program them or to lose that knowledge.

One word: Velika. He must of done something to the Nestor's somehow.

[Chro]

"Nestor's" Hope that was a typo for kestora... :lol:And why the heck would he do that? It's pretty illogical if you ask me.

[Lewa Krom]

I don't think that the Red Star was shut down because there was "evil" in the universe. If I remember correctly (and I do remember there being much discussion on the topic, so I don’t know what the conclusion was on the subject), the Great Beings didn’t expect the Matoran to develop so much sentience or emotions, so I don’t think they would expect beings to become “evil.” Even the Great Beings don’t seem to be united with what their alignment is, with Angonce clearly being noble and Velika appearing to be evil. I conclude this as Angonce was shown in the first chapter of TYQ – or maybe the last chapter of RoS – to be concerned about the welfare of the Matoran when Marendar was unleashed while Velika seems, from everything we know, to want to harm the Toa. However, “evil” is subjective – an evil person doesn’t see himself as being evil. Also, I would venture to say that evil always exists somewhere and the Great Beings probably knew that from their experience with the Core War.However, that said, I would go back to your reference of the League of Six Kingdoms. In that case, the Barraki were trying to overthrow the Great Spirit. The Red Star MIGHT have a failsafe for something like that. However, in the end, none of the Barraki were killed (until Carapar was 80000+ years later) and all were taken to the Pit, so I think we can rule that out since the Pit is clearly the failsafe for such cases.If that was the trigger for the Red Star shutting down, then that might explain some of the problems with the Matoran Civil War since the Red Star would not be able to send the Matoran back to Metru Nui. On that subject, Jovan’s team using the Ignika could have also triggered the Red Star to stop working.Other possibilities I see – sabotage? The Barraki might have realized that the Red Star would send the enemies that they killed back to the MU. However, it would seem rather silly to know the details of the workings of the Red Star and not foresee Botar taking them to the Pit.Velika might have sabotaged it. Of course, I have no proof of that, but he must be aware that it is not working for him to think that killing people like Karzahni, Axonn, Brutaka, etc. will do any good and not be sent back. He might be gathering them there so that he can then blow that up. He might have seen what the Barraki did and decided to stop all other evil beings from returning.Or, when in doubt, blame Makuta. Or the Great Cataclysm. TL;DR: I don’t think that evil is the problem, but I don’t have a better explanation.Let’s Keep Bionicle Alive,Lewa Krom

[Dual Cee]

Just one thing: I know the great beings didn't think of setience but why did they make the golden armor?

[fishers64]

Just one thing: I know the great beings didn't think of setience but why did they make the golden armor?

It was an insurance policy in case the kraata became sentient and evil.

[Wordmeister]

"Nestor's" Hope that was a typo for kestora... :lol:And why the heck would he do that? It's pretty illogical if you ask me.

Stupid auto correct.Velika is mentally unstable. This was probly due to his time in Karzhani, or maybe his time on Voya Nui. Either way, he wouldn't need a reason to cause the star to malfunction.

[Chro]

There isn't much evidence to support theories of his insanity, either. Sure, he's killing powerful entities. But did you see Greg's explanation? He's "doing some housecleaning", in a sense. Getting rid of forces that he considers to be unstable and dangerous. Of course, his assessment is not always correct, so I see why you'd think he was crazy... but remember, he doesn't hold MU inhabitants as his priority, most likely, since the GBs were focused on protecting the Agori, right?I think he'd need a reason.