What are the Great Beings?

[TakunuvaC01]

I tend to think of them as a bit like the Time Lords from Doctor Who.

 

The Time Lords were capable of extraordinary things, but they had very few naturally ingrained abilities- some telepathic power and awareness, the ability to regenerate, some natural affinity for time and other dimensions... but that was, basically, it.

 

And yet they were arguably the most powerful race in the universe, even though all of their power only came from technology they'd mastered achieved over the eons. Their ability to control and manipulate time was derived from ancient technology, some of which was apparently half-forgotten even to them.

 

Like the Great Beings, the Time Lords made plenty of mistakes and had plenty of problems fixing those mistakes. (I could pursue this analogy further with some specific story references but I don't think it's necessary at the moment).

 

Or, to express this a bit more generally, it's the old "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" adage. That's what most of the other powers we've seen in Bionicle are anyway; protodermis-based technology that is so clever it may as well be magical. Since we know the Great Beings were creators, inventors, and tinkerers, it seems a reasonable assertion that all, if not most, of their "powers" are derived their own science as well.

 

Science which may very well be so alien to us that it appears magical, or at least completely impossible.

[NorikSigma]

I think they were more like a hyper-advanced race, biologically similiar to Stories, like they were part mechanical and part biological. Remember what Annona said about the GBs coming to SM? Maybe they couldn't live in their native world due to war or exile, and came to SM to build stuff. They could be human-like in the sense that their greatest tool is their mind, after all they are quite psionic and smart and stuffes.

[Wordmeister]

I think they were more like a hyper-advanced race, biologically similiar to Stories, like they were part mechanical and part biological. Remember what Annona said about the GBs coming to SM? Maybe they couldn't live in their native world due to war or exile, and came to SM to build stuff. They could be human-like in the sense that their greatest tool is their mind, after all they are quite psionic and smart and stuffes.

They could be the reptilian beings from he first HF book!

[toa kopaka4372]

 

I think they were more like a hyper-advanced race, biologically similiar to Stories, like they were part mechanical and part biological. Remember what Annona said about the GBs coming to SM? Maybe they couldn't live in their native world due to war or exile, and came to SM to build stuff. They could be human-like in the sense that their greatest tool is their mind, after all they are quite psionic and smart and stuffes.

They could be the reptilian beings from he first HF book!

 

 

Hero Factory takes place in our universe, BIONICLE does not, so that's not possible.

[Chro]

 

I think they were more like a hyper-advanced race, biologically similiar to Stories, like they were part mechanical and part biological. Remember what Annona said about the GBs coming to SM? Maybe they couldn't live in their native world due to war or exile, and came to SM to build stuff. They could be human-like in the sense that their greatest tool is their mind, after all they are quite psionic and smart and stuffes.

They could be the reptilian beings from he first HF book!

Yeah, Kopaka4372 is right. And aside from that, the names of the characters there (Deneb and Artur, or something like that) were actually taken from a list of Great Being names that weren't used in Bionicle (I could be remembering that wrong, though). Edited December 2, 2012 by Chro

[Wordmeister]

 

 

I think they were more like a hyper-advanced race, biologically similiar to Stories, like they were part mechanical and part biological. Remember what Annona said about the GBs coming to SM? Maybe they couldn't live in their native world due to war or exile, and came to SM to build stuff. They could be human-like in the sense that their greatest tool is their mind, after all they are quite psionic and smart and stuffes.

They could be the reptilian beings from he first HF book!

 

 

Hero Factory takes place in our universe, BIONICLE does not, so that's not possible.

 

Unless the BIONICLE Universe is a pre-humanity stage of our universe, and HF is the future version.

 

Arctur and Deneb were shunned by their people. Arctur said he was responsible for the destruction of his planet. SO, maybe Arctur was responible for the end of all life on Spherus Magna.

[toa kopaka4372]

 

 

 

I think they were more like a hyper-advanced race, biologically similiar to Stories, like they were part mechanical and part biological. Remember what Annona said about the GBs coming to SM? Maybe they couldn't live in their native world due to war or exile, and came to SM to build stuff. They could be human-like in the sense that their greatest tool is their mind, after all they are quite psionic and smart and stuffes.

They could be the reptilian beings from he first HF book!

 

 

Hero Factory takes place in our universe, BIONICLE does not, so that's not possible.

 

Unless the BIONICLE Universe is a pre-humanity stage of our universe, and HF is the future version.

 

Arctur and Deneb were shunned by their people. Arctur said he was responsible for the destruction of his planet. SO, maybe Arctur was responible for the end of all life on Spherus Magna.

 

Sorry, that still doesn't work. We've had confirmation the HF universe and the BIONICLE universe are 100% separate, not at different time periods.

 

We saw the planet Arctur was talking about in The Doom Box. It was some random planet in the HF universe.

[Zox Tomana]

I think BS01 should specify that it hasn't been explicitly confirmed that what we've seen of the GB's abilities are actual powers or just inventions they designed with those abilities.

 

 

Is that speculation, or compiled fact?

 

BS01 tries to stay out of the speculation department, even on the talk pages. If we have it, we heard it at some point. I don't know if it was in a book or an Ask Greg, but the BS01 staff won't let us put speculation on the pages, even if we wanted to. It may be info that is out of date due to a retcon we haven't heard about yet, and all their "ethereal powers" may be linked entirely to their interaction with their creations, but I doubt that their powers are strictly limited to machines. I severely doubt that the imprisoned GB would be allowed a machine that would let him track Vezon through dimensions and manipulate an Olmak.

[ToaN]

I think they may be their own species. Although it is fun to think of them as the LEGO creators, and it almost makes sense, I just don’t know if its logical.

 

Frankly, I’m not sure how advanced their powers are. I think most of their creation ability comes from their technology. Think about it: they had the, the knowledge, the material, (and the money ) to build a 40 million foot tall robot, program up a spirit to control it, build thousands of high-tech humanoid creatures, and program spirits for all of them... also to build the Red Star, the Battera, etc. I think these are all signs of a high level of technology and scientific knowledge.

 

Also, in the comic “All our sins remembered”, showing them analyzing Energized Protodermis, we see machinery there too.

[Chro]

I think they may be their own species. Although it is fun to think of them as the LEGO creators, and it almost makes sense, I just don’t know if its logical.

 

Frankly, I’m not sure how advanced their powers are. I think most of their creation ability comes from their technology. Think about it: they had the, the knowledge, the material, (and the money ) to build a 40 million foot tall robot, program up a spirit to control it, build thousands of high-tech humanoid creatures, and program spirits for all of them... also to build the Red Star, the Battera, etc. I think these are all signs of a high level of technology and scientific knowledge.

 

Also, in the comic “All our sins remembered”, showing them analyzing Energized Protodermis, we see machinery there too.

Well, yes, their use of amazing technology and all that has been stated numerous times, so that isn't speculation. They also wouldn't need money to create anything, just the sheer resources, as they had access to pretty much anything (and if they didn't have it, they'd make it, if possible).

 

Also, sorry to nitpick, but you said they had to program spirits for all of them- while they did program the Matoran and other MU inhabitants, they were for the most part not intended to gain sentience.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Chro

[bohrokmaster]

I always think of the Great Beings as human/organic or mutant Glatorian.

Edited December 10, 2012 by bohrokmaster

[bonesiii]

 

I think they may be their own species. Although it is fun to think of them as the LEGO creators, and it almost makes sense, I just don’t know if its logical.

 

Frankly, I’m not sure how advanced their powers are. I think most of their creation ability comes from their technology. Think about it: they had the, the knowledge, the material, (and the money ) to build a 40 million foot tall robot, program up a spirit to control it, build thousands of high-tech humanoid creatures, and program spirits for all of them... also to build the Red Star, the Battera, etc. I think these are all signs of a high level of technology and scientific knowledge.

 

Also, in the comic “All our sins remembered”, showing them analyzing Energized Protodermis, we see machinery there too.

Well, yes, their use of amazing technology and all that has been stated numerous times, so that isn't speculation. They also wouldn't need money to create anything, just the sheer resources, as they had access to pretty much anything (and if they didn't have it, they'd make it, if possible).

 

Also, sorry to nitpick, but you said they had to program spirits for all of them- while they did program the Matoran and other MU inhabitants, they were for the most part not intended to gain sentience.

 

He didn't say sapient spirits, though. Also, again, Greg clarified that what we could call "partial sapience" was intended. It was something else that was not; perhaps "freewill" should be the term, or full sapience. Anywho, the spirit parts of their natures were part of the original design.

[ToaN]

He didn't say sapient spirits, though. Also, again, Greg clarified that what we could call "partial sapience" was intended. It was something else that was not; perhaps "freewill" should be the term, or full sapience. Anywho, the spirit parts of their natures were part of the original design.

 

Yes, that’s what I meant by "spirit": not necessarily fully sapient, but with the ability to think at least to some extent. They had at least some ability to think.

 

My point was that they programed all the MU inhabitants to some extent. I’m sure that took a lot of work.

[Wordmeister]

 

Unless the BIONICLE Universe is a pre-humanity stage of our universe, and HF is the future version. Arctur and Deneb were shunned by their people. Arctur said he was responsible for the destruction of his planet. SO, maybe Arctur was responible for the end of all life on Spherus Magna.

Sorry, that still doesn't work. We've had confirmation the HF universe and the BIONICLE universe are 100% separate, not at different time periods. We saw the planet Arctur was talking about in The Doom Box. It was some random planet in the HF universe.

 

One word:Olmak. It is possible that a group of great beings used an olmak to colonize a planet in the HF universe.

[bonesiii]

 

 

Unless the BIONICLE Universe is a pre-humanity stage of our universe, and HF is the future version. Arctur and Deneb were shunned by their people. Arctur said he was responsible for the destruction of his planet. SO, maybe Arctur was responible for the end of all life on Spherus Magna.

Sorry, that still doesn't work. We've had confirmation the HF universe and the BIONICLE universe are 100% separate, not at different time periods. We saw the planet Arctur was talking about in The Doom Box. It was some random planet in the HF universe.

 

One word:Olmak. It is possible that a group of great beings used an olmak to colonize a planet in the HF universe.

 

We don't know that it's impossible, anyways. So far all we know for sure is that the "tree of universes" of Bionicle only is where Bionicle powers work. The Olmak may be limited to that tree, and not able to enter other LEGO universes (and it may simply not be canon that others exist at all in Bionicle, as is usual for serious fiction fantasy/scifi realms).

 

But again, this is the sort of thing you can "headcanon" however you like, and do crossovers in fan fiction, while in Bionicle canon it will almost certainly never happen for the simple reason that most Bionicle fans do not want it to.

[Chro]

 

 

Unless the BIONICLE Universe is a pre-humanity stage of our universe, and HF is the future version.Arctur and Deneb were shunned by their people. Arctur said he was responsible for the destruction of his planet. SO, maybe Arctur was responible for the end of all life on Spherus Magna.

Sorry, that still doesn't work. We've had confirmation the HF universe and the BIONICLE universe are 100% separate, not at different time periods. We saw the planet Arctur was talking about in The Doom Box. It was some random planet in the HF universe.

One word:Olmak. It is possible that a group of great beings used an olmak to colonize a planet in the HF universe.

The Olmak isn't the Kanohi of Fourth-Wall-Smashing, it's the Mask of Dimensional Gates. You can use it to jump around dimensions within the Bionicle fiction; it doesn't jump between different Lego storylines. If the HF and Bio stories and universes are officially confirmed to be totally separate, as they are, then that just doesn't make sense. Sorry.

[Dual Cee]

 

 

 

Unless the BIONICLE Universe is a pre-humanity stage of our universe, and HF is the future version.Arctur and Deneb were shunned by their people. Arctur said he was responsible for the destruction of his planet. SO, maybe Arctur was responible for the end of all life on Spherus Magna.

Sorry, that still doesn't work. We've had confirmation the HF universe and the BIONICLE universe are 100% separate, not at different time periods. We saw the planet Arctur was talking about in The Doom Box. It was some random planet in the HF universe.

One word:Olmak. It is possible that a group of great beings used an olmak to colonize a planet in the HF universe.

The Olmak isn't the Kanohi of Fourth-Wall-Smashing, it's the Mask of Dimensional Gates. You can use it to jump around dimensions within the Bionicle fiction; it doesn't jump between different Lego storylines. If the HF and Bio stories and universes are officially confirmed to be totally separate, as they are, then that just doesn't make sense. Sorry.

 

 

 

Not if you consider all universes start from the same beginning and splitsed at a certain time

[Chro]

Not if you consider all universes start from the same beginning and splitsed at a certain time

But the thing is... they didn't. These two universes are totally separate, not connected. For example, Vezon can travel to the Kingdom universe; that started the same but split at a certain point. But he couldn't travel to the HF universe (as hilarious as that'd be) because it isn't even in the same plane of fictional existence.

[toa kopaka4372]

 

Not if you consider all universes start from the same beginning and splitsed at a certain time

But the thing is... they didn't. These two universes are totally separate, not connected. For example, Vezon can travel to the Kingdom universe; that started the same but split at a certain point. But he couldn't travel to the HF universe (as hilarious as that'd be) because it isn't even in the same plane of fictional existence.

 

 

Besides that, Greg Farshtey has said many times humans don't exist in BIONICLE, while they do in Hero Factory. Therefore the two universes can't be the same. If you want to argue that HF exists in one of BIONICLE's alt. dimensions, that's not possible either because I recall Greg saying that no humans exists in BIONICLE's alt. dimensions either. The reason is that no decision made in the main universe would ever result in the creation of humans; therefore no alt. dimensions, which are created every time a decision is made in the prime reality, can have humans in them.

[The Legendary TNT]

 

 

Not if you consider all universes start from the same beginning and splitsed at a certain time

But the thing is... they didn't. These two universes are totally separate, not connected. For example, Vezon can travel to the Kingdom universe; that started the same but split at a certain point. But he couldn't travel to the HF universe (as hilarious as that'd be) because it isn't even in the same plane of fictional existence.

 

 

Besides that, Greg Farshtey has said many times humans don't exist in BIONICLE, while they do in Hero Factory. Therefore the two universes can't be the same. If you want to argue that HF exists in one of BIONICLE's alt. dimensions, that's not possible either because I recall Greg saying that no humans exists in BIONICLE's alt. dimensions either. The reason is that no decision made in the main universe would ever result in the creation of humans; therefore no alt. dimensions, which are created every time a decision is made in the prime reality, can have humans in them.

 

 

But did he say anything about pocket dimensions? They are different, after all.

[Chro]

But did he say anything about pocket dimensions? They are different, after all.

Just to clarify, do you know what a pocket dimension is?

Not a parallel reality or anything, no. It's like a mini sub-dimension, still tied to the universe (main or alt.) but still having space of its own. That isn't a good definition, sorry, but I think I get my point across. You can't put a universe in a pocket dimension.

[The Legendary TNT]

 

But did he say anything about pocket dimensions? They are different, after all.

Just to clarify, do you know what a pocket dimension is?

Not a parallel reality or anything, no. It's like a mini sub-dimension, still tied to the universe (main or alt.) but still having space of its own. That isn't a good definition, sorry, but I think I get my point across. You can't put a universe in a pocket dimension.

 

My bad. I always thought it was like another reality, hence there being a dimension filled with nothing but shadow. I didn't know they were tied to the core/alt. dimensions.

[Truaga_nuju]

I sometimes wonder if the GB's were humans that came to Spherus Magna. Probably not, but you never know.

That would be cool. Except Spherus Magna would be screwed over.

[fishers64]

 

I sometimes wonder if the GB's were humans that came to Spherus Magna. Probably not, but you never know.

That would be cool. Except Spherus Magna would be screwed over.

It was.Human beings wrote the story of Bionicle. Without question.

[Great Being Velika]

I think that the GB's are the "Greek Gods" of Bionicle, so to speak. They were so powerful and perfect, yet had weaknesses. I either imagine Velika, or a Huge Mata nui-like robot.

[bonesiii]

I think that the GB's are the "Greek Gods" of Bionicle, so to speak. They were so powerful and perfect, yet had weaknesses. I either imagine Velika, or a Huge Mata nui-like robot.

Do you mean, you think of the giant robot and prototype when you think of the GBs? Or that you think they could be that big? 'Cuz they can't. They're big, but more like standard Bionicle titan size, since they had to be able to walk down the 777 stairs, which were sized right for beings like Umbra and the Kardas Dragon, but not especially huge.

 

You know, though, the face design of the giant robot might possibly be the GBs' faces. Hm...

[Jedi Knight Krazy]

 

 

I sometimes wonder if the GB's were humans that came to Spherus Magna. Probably not, but you never know.

That would be cool. Except Spherus Magna would be screwed over.

It was.Human beings wrote the story of Bionicle. Without question.

 

 

Well, we've kind of been over this (and bonesiii pounded me with teh facts): GBs aren't humans - at least not from Earth, because Earth doesn't exist in Bionicle.

[fishers64]

 

 

 

I sometimes wonder if the GB's were humans that came to Spherus Magna. Probably not, but you never know.

That would be cool. Except Spherus Magna would be screwed over.

It was.Human beings wrote the story of Bionicle. Without question.

Well, we've kind of been over this (and bonesiii pounded me with teh facts): GBs aren't humans - at least not from Earth, because Earth doesn't exist in Bionicle.

#quote endI am completely and fully confident that the Great Beings aren't human.

Human beings wrote the story of Bionicle. Without question.

#quote endWe did. Think about it for a second. Yes, the Great Beings aren't human. But who is above them and controlling their every move? That would be us. More specifically Mr. Farshtey and the Story Team, but let's not get too technical.

[The Legendary TNT]

 

I think that the GB's are the "Greek Gods" of Bionicle, so to speak. They were so powerful and perfect, yet had weaknesses. I either imagine Velika, or a Huge Mata nui-like robot.

Do you mean, you think of the giant robot and prototype when you think of the GBs? Or that you think they could be that big? 'Cuz they can't. They're big, but more like standard Bionicle titan size, since they had to be able to walk down the 777 stairs, which were sized right for beings like Umbra and the Kardas Dragon, but not especially huge.

 

You know, though, the face design of the giant robot might possibly be the GBs' faces. Hm...

 

 

Nit pick, only the Chamber of Life was big enough for the Kardas Dragon, not the stairs themselves.

 

Woah. Wasn't the MU head designed after the Toa Mata heads? They look pretty similar. (Yes, I'm talking set wise)... So if the MU was modeled after a GB,...and the Toa's faces were modeled after it(now, it's story talking), does that mean a GB can wear a mask?

[Flex Lord Splash]

I wouldn't be surprised if the GB's can wear a mask, if they can create the technology to fill the masks with power why wouldn't they be able to use them themselves?

[fishers64]

I wouldn't be surprised if the GB's can wear a mask, if they can create the technology to fill the masks with power why wouldn't they be able to use them themselves?

I suspect it is because they can't put them on their face...maybe? They specifically designed Matoran and Toa to interface with masks; it's possible that they designed them to do so without being able to.

[bonesiii]

Well that brings up an interesting question. Although we know they are organic and wear clothes, do we know for sure they don't have any metal/tech implants like the Glatorian?

 

Like for example, the minimum needed to attach a Kanohi to the face, which may just be a little bit of magnetic metal. (Presuming they have a Psionic ability to interface with their tech in general... or if not, an implant for that, etc.)

[Wordmeister]

If they wear Kanohi, then I believe they are Cyborgs of sorts. Maybe some kind of Agori/-Human like being- fusion.

 

However, I completely disagree with the "Greek gods" analogy. They do not have supernatural powers (most likely) and therefor cannot be considered gods.

[fishers64]

Well that brings up an interesting question. Although we know they are organic and wear clothes, do we know for sure they don't have any metal/tech implants like the Glatorian? Like for example, the minimum needed to attach a Kanohi to the face, which may just be a little bit of magnetic metal. (Presuming they have a Psionic ability to interface with their tech in general... or if not, an implant for that, etc.)

I'm pretty sure they have a psionic ability to interface with their tech, seeing as they can make their creations not perceive them. I think that qualifies as a psionic ability.

[Chro]

It's almost like the Matrix, in a way. The Matrix is programmed, and if you know the Matrix isn't real (and have sufficient mental ability), you can alter it, even if you have no abilities in the real world. The GBs (obviously) know that everything in the MU is tech, and they have the power to operate it and change how the Matoran perceive things, even if they don't actually have abilities of their own.

This analogy is quite irrelevant and barely thought out, so pay it no mind. XD

Edited December 4, 2012 by Chro

[The Iron Toa]

Actually, Makuta have certain control over the physical world (I think just the MU environment though) because of secret knowledge they possess. The Great Beings would have something like that but far greater, so I like your idea, Chro. It probably wouldn't apply so much to the natural universe, though, just their protodermis-based creations.

[toa kopaka4372]

Actually, Makuta have certain control over the physical world (I think just the MU environment though) because of secret knowledge they possess. The Great Beings would have something like that but far greater, so I like your idea, Chro. It probably wouldn't apply so much to the natural universe, though, just their protodermis-based creations.

Probably some sort of devices.

[Darkon219]

What if GB was Space Jockeys from Prometheus?!!! Seriously I imagine them as beings similar to them similar to humans but just better.

Edited December 6, 2012 by Darkon219

[Wordmeister]

 

Actually, Makuta have certain control over the physical world (I think just the MU environment though) because of secret knowledge they possess. The Great Beings would have something like that but far greater, so I like your idea, Chro. It probably wouldn't apply so much to the natural universe, though, just their protodermis-based creations.

 

Probably some sort of devices.

 

They're Cyborgs! Part human-like thing part agori!

[Chro]

Er... actually, Agori would technically be cyborgs, since they are primarily organic with mechanical enhancements. And I believe that Bones or somebody else deduced that the GBs would be similar to Agori a few pages ago.