The Sliver Toa Alternate Universe(s)?

[Kavu]

Consider Bionicle heroes and VNOG. It presents a radically different storyline and protagonist known only as "The Silver Toa"

In this possible universe, the breaking point would be the Inika were soundly beaten, probably put to a similar fate as the Nuva. After which either:

 

1. A matoran falls in some energized protodermis, either by choice or accident.

2. Another Toa arrives in a canister on the beaches of Mata Nui

 

This Toa displays a radically different power than any other Toa, the ability to put on a mask and gain the powers of the previous wearer. By this time, the Piraka still have not found the Ignika, but managed to gain complete dominion over the island through advanced Nektann, control of the Rahi (Through antidermis?), Bohrohk (Maybe some were hidden on the island and Teridax activated them like the Mata Nui Bohrohk?), and even a few Rahkshi (From some last ditch BoM attempt to stop the Piraka?)

 

My question is, could this be considered an alternate universe? Like the Kingdom or the Empire universes?

 

(And that's my bout of silly speculation for today )

Edited December 13, 2012 by The Great Being Velika

[Light]

I like this. Now, I don't know that it could be considered a cohesive universe, as the piraka were beaten in two different ways.Also: Roodaka in heroes.

[Chro]

I like the idea, but I'd say no, as those games tend to be non-canon.

The power of a generic Toa to morph into other Toa (who just happen to match up with the same wave of sets) is just a game mechanic for switching characters. Perhaps there was some reason for not doing an RPG style game with a party of heroes.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Chro

[fishers64]

There are indefinite possibilities for alternate universes.

[Kavu]

I like this. Now, I don't know that it could be considered a cohesive universe, as the piraka were beaten in two different ways.Also: Roodaka in heroes.

It wouldn't be the first time Zaktan dealt with her, perhaps he hired Roodaka as an informant of what was going on in the outside (or in this case, inside) world?

[The Iron Toa]

Weren't Nidhiki and Krekka in it too?

[Kavu]

Weren't Nidhiki and Krekka in it too?

Krekka was part of a larger species, no? Admittedly I don't know how to explain Nidhiki, Roodaka corrupted another air Toa?

[Meta-Mind]

Weren't Nidhiki and Krekka in it too?

Nidhiki, Krekka, Roodaka, Sidorak, Axonn who was way too easy to kill, and Brutaka all appeared in Bionicle Heroes as bosses. Unless we can handwave them away as "other members of the same species" (which I doubt, because Krekka had only one eye, Nidhiki was a mutant, Roodaka and Sidorak had their signature weapons, and Axonn and Brutaka had their weapons and masks), this would be a major plothole.

 

I have a question, though: are you proposing that without training, this Toa could use any Elemental Powers? And if so, was he able to do so by gaining some memories of the original wearer, perhaps? Just food for thought.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Meta-Mind

[Kavu]

 

Weren't Nidhiki and Krekka in it too?

Nidhiki, Krekka, Roodaka, Sidorak, Axonn who was way too easy to kill, and Brutaka all appeared in Bionicle Heroes as bosses. Unless we can handwave them away as "other members of the same species" (which I doubt, because Krekka had only one eye, Nidhiki was a mutant, Roodaka and Sidorak had their signature weapons, and Axonn and Brutaka had their weapons and masks), this would be a major plothole.

 

I have a question, though: are you proposing that without training, this Toa could use any Elemental Powers? And if so, was he able to do so by gaining some memories of the original wearer, perhaps? Just food for thought.

 

Krekka, Sidorak and Roodaka where the only ones present that might of been another member of another species, although I like my idea that Roodaka was actually Roodaka and spying for or on the Piraka, it's already been established that Steltan's could be somewhat mercenary, so it wouldn't be unbelievable that two members of their respective species were hired by the Piraka to help consolidate their power. Axonn and Brutaka could've had separate reasons for opposing the protagonist, perhaps seeing him a threat to the discovery of the Mask of Life.

 

Again, Nidhiki is the only one I can't find a proper explanation for.

[Chro]

Yeah, MetaMind's right... I also think that (above the other characters) it's strange that you'd fight Axonn. Maybe it would've been cooler if he had been a sort of one-off assist character for a mission, kind of like Metroplex in the first few levels of Transformers: Fall of Cybertron.

Perhaps the Nidhiki you fight in the game is a shape-shifter of some kind, disguised as him? Or maybe that's another difference of this supposed alternate timeline- Nidhiki and Krekka never died in Metru Nui.

[Toa R. Lih Nit]

So, in this universe:

a) Nidhiki, Krekka and Sidorak are alive (The events in LoMN and WoS never happen)

b) Axxon and Brutaka are bad guys (Antidermis + angst/adiction)

How about the Piraka (in this universe) are servants of the BoM and not members of the DH? That explains Visorak, Rahkshi and maybe Bohrok (New Fake Bohrok?)

Edit: Silly me, that isn't necessary, the Piraka, Nidhiki and Krekka can be DH hired by the BoM.

All hypothetically, obviou.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Toa R. Lih Nit

[The Iron Toa]

Edit: Silly me, that isn't necessary, the Piraka, Nidhiki and Krekka can be DH hired by the BoM.

 

Except the Dark Hunters and the Makuta were at war... because Teridax killed Nidhiki and Krekka. But since they're still alive in this universe... it all fits.

[Toa R. Lih Nit]

 

Edit: Silly me, that isn't necessary, the Piraka, Nidhiki and Krekka can be DH hired by the BoM.

 

Except the Dark Hunters and the Makuta were at war... because Teridax killed Nidhiki and Krekka. But since they're still alive in this universe... it all fits.

 

Nidhiki and Krekka dead -> TSO angry -> War

[Hexann]

Your also forgetting vahki and Sidorak.

 

I like this idea as well, but as said before the idea of the silver toa morphing himself into other toa just isn't unless in this alternate universe a toa of light could change more then just there color or a toa of iron could shape-shift there own body.

 

-HDXC2000 6.0

Edited December 13, 2012 by Hybridno DXC2000 6.0

[Meta-Mind]

So, in this universe:a) Nidhiki, Krekka and Sidorak are alive (The events in LoMN and WoS never happen)b) Axxon and Brutaka are bad guys (Antidermis + angst/adiction)How about the Piraka (in this universe) are servants of the BoM and not members of the DH? That explains Visorak, Rahkshi and maybe Bohrok (New Fake Bohrok?)Edit: Silly me, that isn't necessary, the Piraka, Nidhiki and Krekka can be DH hired by the BoM. All hypothetically, obviou.

A: I would say that many of those events could have happened, but in a modified form. For example, Roodaka might have not blasted Keetonongu off that balcony, and so not incurred his wrath to the degree tnay she did in canon.B: Axonn's species is comletely immune to Antidermis.Yeah - if Nidhiki and Krekka were never killed, the BoM/DH War wouldn't have happened, so the Dark Hunters would've stilll been allies of the BoM.

[Exitium]

I see two distinct possibilities here.

 

1) There exists an alternate universe in which Sidorak, Nidhiki, and Krekka are alive, Axon and Brutaka are evil, and all of them are on Voya Nui with Roodaka and the Piraka looking for the mask of life, along with Bohrok, Visorak, Vahki, and Rahkshi. There's also a silver Toa who can transform into other Toa simply by wearing their masks, a power we've never seen outside this one game.

 

2) The games aren't canon.

 

Occam's razor would suggest that the second option is most likely to be true. Games generally aren't considered canon, and there are simply too many differences between VNOG and Heroes for them to be telling the same story anyway. Given that this alternative universe doesn't seem to make any sense and that we have no reason to believe that it even exists, it probably isn't canon.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Exitium

[The Iron Toa]

I think any non-canon situation that doesn't involve crossovers with other settings or real life could theoretically be a divergent universe.

[The Legendary TNT]

I like this concept. I always thought that it was a shame that they weren't canon. However, I think VNOLG and BH should be two separate universes, one being an alternate universe of the other, so to speak.

I think any non-canon situation that doesn't involve crossovers with other settings or real life could theoretically be a divergent universe.

 

Di-di-d-divergent universe? I would like a definition.

[The Iron Toa]

I meant an alternate universe split off from the main one from some particular event having a different outcome, like the Kingdom and Toa Empire universes.

[The Legendary TNT]

Oh. I thought it was something different from "alternate." Cool, a word to remember for essays!

[The Iron Toa]

Diverge means deviate or extend in a different direction. In the case of the alternate universes, it's when the timeline diverges at a critical point, for example in the Kingdom when Matoro had to use the Mask of Life.

[Kavu]

Your also forgetting vahki and Sidorak.

 

I like this idea as well, but as said before the idea of the silver toa morphing himself into other toa just isn't unless in this alternate universe a toa of light could change more then just there color or a toa of iron could shape-shift there own body.

 

-HDXC2000 6.0

The Piraka have visited Metru Nui before, the "Vahki" could be Nektann based on the design. Sidorak already has two possible explanations.

[The Iron Toa]

I like this idea as well, but as said before the idea of the silver toa morphing himself into other toa just isn't unless in this alternate universe a toa of light could change more then just there color or a toa of iron could shape-shift there own body.

 

I don't think the Silver Toa is either. He could be some sort of unique mutant Toa. Masks contain a personality imprint, so maybe he can somehow use that to trigger a transformation into the mask's last wearer, kind of like how the Ignika turned Dekar into a Hydraxon copy.

[Ektris]

Sure, there are an infinite number of alternate universes. So anything is possible.But I wouldn't for a second consider this one.For starters, there is no clear divergence point given the number of character appearances that shouldn't be around in that time. So it's hard to meet even the first criteria.But also the "Silver Toa" breaks all of the laws of Toa we know. Yes things happen differently in alternate universes, but generally speaking they have the exact same laws. The history just changed. So if the "Silver Toa" couldn't exist in the main universe, how do you explain his existence elsewhere?Finally, they were pretty explicitly stated as being non-canon. I don't really like the idea of just taking everything non-canon and throwing it in an "alternate universe" just so you can call it canon.~|ET|~

[LewaLew]

 

I don't really like the idea of just taking everything non-canon and throwing it in an "alternate universe" just so you can call it canon.

 

 

 

 

Isn't that the point of Alternate Universes? Even so, however, the BIONICLE Heroes universe is so wonky that it probably wouldn't make sense in an AU.

 

 

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the game trumped up the presence of Bohrok, Vahki, and Visorak on the Island to the Piraka using the Ignika to transform the matoran into them or something.

Edited December 13, 2012 by LewaLew

[Cratak]

Finally, they were pretty explicitly stated as being non-canon. I don't really like the idea of just taking everything non-canon and throwing it in an "alternate universe" just so you can call it canon.

 

Correct, they are non-cannon. But at the same time, they could possibly be whimsical versions of the Core Dimension, having been created somewhat like the Aethion Dimension from the Expanded Multiverse fanon series.

 

Although it would have been more appropriate for it to be in written format.

 

Also, the "silver Toa" could be a shapeshifter, something like an alternate Krahka, but more than just a sentient Rahi.

[Ektris]

 

Finally, they were pretty explicitly stated as being non-canon. I don't really like the idea of just taking everything non-canon and throwing it in an "alternate universe" just so you can call it canon.

Correct, they are non-cannon. But at the same time, they could possibly be whimsical versions of the Core Dimension, having been created somewhat like the Aethion Dimension from the Expanded Multiverse fanon series. Although it would have been more appropriate for it to be in written format. Also, the "silver Toa" could be a shapeshifter, something like an alternate Krahka, but more than just a sentient Rahi.

 

This is not the Expanded Multiverse. What is done there has no bearing on what was done in the actual storyline. (For that matter, I have no idea what it is you're actually referring to here since I've not read a single thing from it.)A shapeshifter is a possibility, but why and where did he come from?

 

I don't really like the idea of just taking everything non-canon and throwing it in an "alternate universe" just so you can call it canon.

Isn't that the point of Alternate Universes? Even so, however, the BIONICLE Heroes universe is so wonky that it probably wouldn't make sense in an AU.Anyhow, I'm pretty sure the game trumped up the presence of Bohrok, Vahki, and Visorak on the Island to the Piraka using the Ignika to transform the matoran into them or something.

 

No, that isn't the point at all. They're for exploring interesting possibilities that can't be explored in a main universe for various reasons, usually due to a dramatic event that can't be undone or was averted. (Or in the real world because you have to stay focused on what's actually happening and don't want to confuse people.) They're "what ifs," not "anything I say can happen because it's not the main universe." The latter is what this type is.I'm a bit rusty on Heroes since I haven't played it in quite some time, but I'm pretty sure they were supposed to be "real" Bohrok, Vahki, Visorak, and Rahkshi.~|ET|~

[Makuta Matata]

So, you're proposing that Bionicle Heroes could have it's own separate canon?

I really like this idea. It's plausible.

[Cratak]

This is not the Expanded Multiverse. What is done there has no bearing on what was done in the actual storyline. (For that matter, I have no idea what it is you're actually referring to here since I've not read a single thing from it.)A shapeshifter is a possibility, but why and where did he come from?

The Expanded Multiverse has no bearing on the actual storyline either, but it's fanon because it is possible. I'm not really trying to say that it's possible that the game could actually be even somewhat cannon, I'm just saying that someone could write a story about it and still have it follow the accepted Bionicle characteristics. BTW, the Expanded Multiverse series is written by bonesiii and Swert.

As for the shapeshifter, there could be numerous explanations for this, e.g. member of the OoMN.

[LockmanCapulet]

I like it.

 

...

 

Write ALL the AU fanfic!

[MaksDudekVA]

I call them Alternate realities, but they are just not OFFICIAL. However, my guess is that it's just an alternate universe yet to be discovered by MU inhabitants and/or Spherus Magna Inhabitants.

In other words, no MU inhabitant has discovered it yet.

[FallenCor]

I never really thought of Heroes as being canon. There were too many plot-holes (or more accurately, no plot to speak of, really). I remember being fairly bamboozled when I first came across Axonn as a boss, ha ha. Besides, what about being able to play as the Piraka themselves? I remember re-playing and completing a few levels as Vezon, though others will probably explain it away as a mere bonus-feature (which it is). The whole freakin' game was a big, fat bonus-feature, if you think about it. Can we really call a game that has a feature called Piraka Playground "canon"? XD There's also the fact that the game was aimed at a younger and/or newer audience. You'll notice that the Piraka were drastically dumbed down, quite literally, and came off as simple yahoos who could pack a nasty punch, nothing more. Virtually no dialogue; nothing telling you to "go do X"; just the visual signs of "oh hey, walk this way, kill that thing, unlock this thing, then get rid of that boss!" A game that's perfect for people who are new to the world of BIONICLE, as there's practically no story to get mixed up in. Just your stereotypical first-person shooter game, but one that takes place in the BIONICLE universe. All you know as a newbie is that you're playing as some mechanical warrior(s) who's supposed to get rid of these villainous oafs and collect shiny Lego pieces while you're at it. I love that old game, but I honestly doubt it could ever be considered canon; even as an alt-universe. It was seriously just everything from the past few story-arcs tossed into a blender of awesome. I don't think any BIONICLE video-game is "canon", really. Just fun lil' games that allow the player to do with as they will, using their favorite characters. It's an awesome idea, though!

[Darkon219]

This topic is nonsense and should be immediately closed. Anything that was shown in any bionicle heroes game was not canon and had nothing to a story. Everything that wasn't consistent with the real story was made just for needs of game which is one of many reasons why the game sucked (DS version was ok for gameplay) because they didn't have to make story completely different they should made this game like Lego Star Wars or Indiana Jones and Harry Potter, but no they done something different that lowered the standards of a whole Bionicle series.

[Chro]

Relax, Darkon. Although I happen to agree with you, GB Velika (who started this topic) did have a fair point. I'm going to assume that he wasn't aware that those games were considered non-canon.