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My Theory on Tamaru


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#1 Offline aaninja64

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 11:27 AM

So I was just derping around in my room, admiring how fricken awesome Vezok's speargun is, when a very, very random thought popped into my mind.What if Tamaru isn't a Le-Matoran? He's afraid of heights, which is strange for a Le-Matoran, who have a love of heights practically written into their DNA. And, while this isn't really a reason, I vividly remember him sitting on that giant flower in MNOG.So my theory? Tamaru is either an Av-Matoran or a Matoran of the Green. If he's an Av-Matoran, then he could have gotten to Mata-Nui via Metru-Nui the same way Takua did, during the Time Slip. If he's a Matoran of the Green, then he could have happened to have been in Metru-Nui, perhaps trading, perhaps he even immigrated there, when Terry launched his evil plan to turn the Matoran into hunchbacked garden gnomes. Then, when he arrived on Mata-Nui, he would have been mixed in with the rest of the Le-Matoran, and he would have blended in, and no one would know that he was different.So what do you guys think? Could I be right?
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#2 Offline TheSkeletonMan939

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 11:31 AM

That's like saying any girl who doesn't enjoy playing with Barbies isn't really a girl.


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#3 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 11:35 AM

He's not that afraid of heights, just flying heights.  He's still as agile as any Le-Matoran, has no trouble with being in the tree tops, doing the "windsprint" thing in the '02 Bohrok animations.  Its an interesting theory, but one minorly different trait isn't enough to suggest he's a different type of Matoran, there are always unusual Matoran from every element.


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#4 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 11:43 AM

I don't think he's an Av-Matoran. There was one on Mata Nui, I don't think Greg would put another on it. Matoran of the Green could be possible. He has kinda the right colors. But Onepu is purple and black, but he isn't a Ba-Matoran. Tamaru is just a misfit among Le-Matoran. Orkahm is a Le-Matoran who doesn't like to go very fast. Matoro was a Ko-Matoran who never really liked Knowledge Towers. Macku is a Ga-Matoran who didn't want to study. Does that mean they aren't of their respective elements? No. Sometimes Matoran have their own quirks and habits and fears that make up their personalities. 

 

EDIT: Oh, and Vezok's harpoon launcher is pretty cool.


Edited by TNT-DJ Vezon, Dec 31 2012 - 02:41 PM.

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#5 Offline toa kopaka4372

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 01:19 PM

Yeah, it isn't very nice to stereotype all Le-Matoran as having the same traits; they all have different personalities, and Tamaru's is just a different one amongst many. 


Edited by toa kopaka4372, Dec 31 2012 - 01:19 PM.

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#6 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 02:36 PM

That's like saying any girl who doesn't enjoy playing with Barbies isn't really a girl.

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]That doesn't really line up properly. Nobody (as far as I know) expects all girls to play with Barbies. On the other hand, Matoran (if I'm not mistaken) are coded a certain way to have certain traits. Not to say that their entire personalities are based around what their race is supposed to do, if that makes any sense, but they'd be programmed with specific base traits... meh, not sure where I'm going with this. :lol:[/color][/font]

 

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]While there are other examples that lead me to believe that this is false (as listed by TNTDJV), I think this theory is actually pretty reasonable. I'd suspect he'd be a Matoran of the Green more than an Av-Matoran, though, if it were true.[/color][/font]

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]And again, while there are other similar examples such as Matoro or Macku, it doesn't mean that Tamaru couldn't be an exception to that, either.[/color][/font]


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#7 Online bonesiii

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 02:45 PM

It's possible. Remember, guys, a theory presents evidence, not proof -- just an indication that something MIGHT be true, which this does.

 

Might as well bring up that BS01 says Plants' colors are blue and green. Tamaru in MNOG is portrayed as lime green and cyan blue. So just from that alone, I would see strong evidence.

 

However, that cyan blue is non-canon. Both he and Kongu's "cyan" is actually bluegreen in the set form, and MNOG2 showed Tamaru's body as bluegreen too, not cyan. Still, there's a bit of blue to bluegreen, so you could plausibly argue that it's close enough; that some Le-Matoran and Plants Matoran's color scheme ranges overlap just like Onu and Po.


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#8 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 03:52 PM

Might as well bring up that BS01 says Plants' colors are blue and green. Tamaru in MNOG is portrayed as lime green and cyan blue. So just from that alone, I would see strong evidence.

 

However, that cyan blue is non-canon. Both he and Kongu's "cyan" is actually bluegreen in the set form, and MNOG2 showed Tamaru's body as bluegreen too, not cyan. Still, there's a bit of blue to bluegreen, so you could plausibly argue that it's close enough; that some Le-Matoran and Plants Matoran's color scheme ranges overlap just like Onu and Po.

 (end quote)

 

But what kind of blue are Plant Matoran?

 

I count at least five shades of blue spread across three other elements:

 

[color=#0000ff;]Basic (Gali, Ga-Matoran masks - Water)[/color]

[color=#000080;]Dark (Toa Nokama, Vhisola - Water)[/color]

[color=#66ccff;]Light (Turaga Nokama, Ga-Matoran bodies - Water)[/color]

[color=#6699ff;]Sand (Matoro and Kopeke's masks - Ice)[/color]

[color=#33ffff;]Teal (Kongu's mask, Tamaru's body - Air)[/color]


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#9 Offline Great Being Velika

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 04:43 PM

That's like saying any girl who doesn't enjoy playing with Barbies isn't really a girl.

It isn't in a girl's DNA to play with Barbies, meanwhile Le-Matoran are "coded" to love heights.


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#10 Offline Click

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 05:32 PM

I have to admit, that would be pretty cool. I was planning on asking Greg if we know of any other Time Slip Av-Matoran in the storyline, and I am really hoping that Tamaru is one, although it would really mess up a story idea I had in the works. :D

Here's another reason I found just by going to BS01:

According to what he told Takua when he and the rest of the Chronicler's Company were traveling to Kini-Nui, Tamaru can swim, unlike other Le-Matoran, who dislike water.

He hates heights, and loves water, completely opposite to most Le-Matoran, which does seem odd. I wonder if that would make him a Matoran of the Green, since we don't know enough about them to really question. He's also very cheerful, lively, and talks faster than most Le-Matoran, according to BS01, which might be a quality of Matoran of the Green, being all "lively." :D I would like to see him be another Av-Matoran though.

 

And due to this post:

I don't think he's an Av-Matoran. There was one on Mata Nui, I don't think Greg would put another on it. Matoran of the Green could be possible. He has kinda the right colors. But Onepu is purple and black, but he isn't a Ba-Matoran. Tamaru is just a misfit among Le-Matoran. Orkahm is a Le-Matoran who doesn't like to go very fast. Matoro was a Ko-Matoran who never really liked Knowledge Towers. Macku is a Ga-Matoran who didn't want to study. Does that mean they aren't of their respective elements? No. Sometimes Matoran have their own quirks and habits and fears that make up their personalities. 

 

EDIT: Oh, and Vezok's harpoon launcher is pretty cool.

 we could almost assume the entire Chronicler's company are Av-Matoran, or other elements, which would be cool, but I'm not going to imply that because everyone would hate me for it. Just imagine if Takua accepted those few by destiny, or a natural attraction (I really tried for a different word there) to other Av-Matoran, which just might explain some of the wierd things about all of them, particularly Kapura, which could be some kind of Light ability manifesting, similar to Umbra's lightspeed. Ah, too late, I just suggested it. Let the hating and tearing apart begin.


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#11 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 08:13 PM

It's been confirmed that Takua was the only Av-Matoran on Metru Nui.


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Posted Dec 31 2012 - 09:40 PM

But what kind of blue are Plant Matoran?

Probably basic blue, since it doesn't specify otherwise. Standard, that is, or most common/average.

 

 

He's also very cheerful, lively, and talks faster than most Le-Matoran, according to BS01, which might be a quality of Matoran of the Green, being all "lively."

I would expect an association with plants to make them slow if anything. :P Air is about as fast-moving as you can get for any element without being controlled, under fairly normal circumstances, after all.

 

Your other points make sense though.


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#13 Offline Click

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 12:56 AM

It's been confirmed that Takua was the only Av-Matoran on Metru Nui.

Really? Do you have a reference to that? It would be terribly disappointing.If not, I thought of some reasons for each to be Av-Matoran.1. Metru-Nui was one of the largest Matoran population centers, so if Av-Matoran were distributed even somewhat evenly throughout the universe, it would make sense for Metru-Nui to have larger proportions of Av-Matoran in the city.2. Kapura: He has the strange ability that many fans have struggled to explain to "Move quickly by moving slowly." Turaga Vakama was said to have taught him this skill. BS01 also says one example of light powers is "moving as fast as light." This ability could either be a rare Av-Matoran trait, which Vakama has sensed, or it could be a Toa ability that Vakama unlocked using small amounts of Toa energy (through his Toa Stone or perhaps Turaga reserves), which may or may not be canon. :D3. Macku: Macku is described as "brave and adventurous, though her desire for adventure often led her to disobey the rules of her village and sneak out." (BS01) Takua was also adventurous, never content to stay in one place for long, mostly because he doesn't feel like he fits in anywhere, just like Macku, possibly.4. Tamaru: He likes water and hates heights, unlike most Le-Matoran, and has a more unusual color scheme, like Takua's blue.5. Hafu: I don't know, perhaps he uses his light bending capabilities to make his statues appear to be the best?6. Kopeke: He's not as antisocial as other Ko-Matoran, and generally doesn't fit in.7. Taipu: Also wants to travel?8. A possible destiny twist or light "attraction" brought them all together?I don't know how canon most of that is, but it would be cool. :D

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#14 Offline Meta-Mind

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 01:42 AM

Kapura: He has the strange ability that many fans have struggled to explain to "Move quickly by moving slowly." Turaga Vakama was said to have taught him this skill. BS01 also says one example of light powers is "moving as fast as light." This ability could either be a rare Av-Matoran trait, which Vakama has sensed, or it could be a Toa ability that Vakama unlocked using small amounts of Toa energy (through his Toa Stone or perhaps Turaga reserves), which may or may not be canon. :D

~~~I would actually think that it could be a Light power, much like Photok's lightspeed ability. The only problem with this idea is that under normal conditions, these abilities only work in contact with Toa - perhaps Vakama trained Kapura to be able to tap into it at will? It's always possible that Kapura said something on Metru Nui about this capability, after all.

Macku: Macku is described as "brave and adventurous, though her desire for adventure often led her to disobey the rules of her village and sneak out." (BS01) Takua was also adventurous, never content to stay in one place for long, mostly because he doesn't feel like he fits in anywhere, just like Macku, possibly.

~~~mackuxhewkii must mean she's an av-matoran I MEAN yeah, that makes sense. However, it's really pretty circumstantial evidence - I'm sure there were a lot of Matoran who just didn't feel comfortable in certain situations. Like most Ko-Matoran, for instance, when put in a room with a bunch of others. :P

Tamaru: He likes water and hates heights, unlike most Le-Matoran, and has a more unusual color scheme, like Takua's blue.

~~~In all fairness, I don't think it was ever specified that Tamaru liked water. I believe he could swim, though, which is more than most Le-Matoran.

Hafu: I don't know, perhaps he uses his light bending capabilities to make his statues appear to be the best?

~~~...That doesn't really make much sense. I don't really think there's any evidence for Hafu.

Kopeke: He's not as antisocial as other Ko-Matoran, and generally doesn't fit in.

~~~To be fair, the same (and then some) could be said for Matoro, and he was definitely a Matoran of Ice.

7. Taipu: Also wants to travel?

~~~Did he? I just remember one segment of the MNOLG where he was curious about Le-Koro, that's all.If anything, Taipu is less likely to be a Matoran of Light than, say, Midak. For example.

8. A possible destiny twist or light "attraction" brought them all together?I don't know how canon most of that is, but it would be cool. :D

~~~Yeah, it would be neat... but in all honesty, it's not that likely. Most of the "evidence" here is very circumstantial (does Taipu even want to travel?). Not all unusual Matoran have to be Av-Matoran.

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#15 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 09:26 AM

Kapura: He has the strange ability that many fans have struggled to explain to "Move quickly by moving slowly." Turaga Vakama was said to have taught him this skill. BS01 also says one example of light powers is "moving as fast as light."

(end quote)

 

Probably the best argument that could be made for any of them being Av-Matoran.

 

Macku: Macku is described as "brave and adventurous, though her desire for adventure often led her to disobey the rules of her village and sneak out." (BS01) Takua was also adventurous, never content to stay in one place for long, mostly because he doesn't feel like he fits in anywhere, just like Macku, possibly.

(end quote)

 

Her reason for sneaking out was that she fancied Huki. This was dropped from the canon once it was decided Bionicle characters were asexual, which presumably leaves her as a standard Ga-Matoran.

 

Tamaru: He likes water and hates heights, unlike most Le-Matoran, and has a more unusual color scheme, like Takua's blue.

(end quote)

 

His colour scheme is the same as Kongu's.

 

Hafu: I don't know, perhaps he uses his light bending capabilities to make his statues appear to be the best?

(end quote)

 

Not sure how that works, but even if it did, as soon as he wasn't around to do it, his statues wouldn't look the same and he'd look a fraud.

 

Kopeke: He's not as antisocial as other Ko-Matoran, and generally doesn't fit in.

(end quote)

 

You seem to have him mixed up with Matoro, who is the one specified as more friendly than most Ice characters. Kopeke, according to the MNOLG, 'will not offer great company, for he is hard and likes solitude', which is in keeping with his element.

 

Taipu: Also wants to travel?

(end quote)

 

If you'd spent your days in a dark tunnel constantly hitting a wall with a hammer, I imagine you'd relish the prospect of travel too.

 

 

With these Matoran, I think you're trying to read in evidence that isn't there.


Edited by Sir Kohran, Jan 01 2013 - 12:00 PM.

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#16 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 11:57 AM

Tamaru: He likes water and hates heights, unlike most Le-Matoran, and has a more unusual color scheme, like Takua's blue.

His colour scheme is the same as Kongu's.

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]To be fair, Taipu and Hafu were different types of Matoran with the same color scheme. ;)[/color][/font]


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#17 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 11:59 AM

I'd say Hafu and Kopeke aren't really that unusual for their elements, but I disagree with what's being said about Taipu (I would do :P).  I don't think it was to do with being in a tunnel all the time, and just curiosity, he had a very explorative personality, he wanted to experience new places.  I don't think this is anything to do with growing bored of the tunnels or anything, he just seemed to be happy wherever he went.  He spent a long time in Le-Koro after he was rescued. 

 

Macku I'm not sure about, she does have a very similar personality to Takua, but just because Takua was like that, and turned out to be an Av-Matoran, doesn't mean every Matoran with that personality is going to be an Av-matoran.

 

Kapura seems to me to be the most likely Av-Matoran, with his speed travelling thing. 

 

I'm still holding the thought right now though that these characters have unusual personality traits because they have personalities.  Because they were relevant to the storyline they were explored in detail and we saw their eccentricities.  It's Matoran who are less relevant to the story who mainly hold the typical elemental personalities, and that's because we don't know enough about them.


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#18 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 12:00 PM

Huh, if anyone other than Takua was an Av-Matoran, it probably would be Midak.

 

I don't have the exact quote, but I read it in the Official Greg Discussion a long time ago. It would make sense, because Metru Nui is also the most vital of the Matoran cities, so it's probably one the Brotherhood would keep an eye on. Additionally, before the Dark Hunters release the Kanohi Dragon, Metru Nui had to Toa, so it might not as been as safe to hide an Av-Matoran elsewhere.

 

And I agree with Sir Kohran, most of your evidence seems kind of forced. Plus, we need to remember how diverse the personalities of the other Av-Matoran were. Tanma, for example, was hardheaded and stuck to whatever he needed to be doing.


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#19 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 12:03 PM

Just a little thing I thought of that would go against Kapura being an Av-matoran, in the kingdom Alternate universe, Kapura was a Toa.  And it was stated that Tanma was the only Toa of light in that team.  Interestingly though, Balta was also in that team, and having two of the same element in a team is unusual.  This seems to me to rule out Kapura being an Av-Matoran, because as far as we know the Kingdom was identical to the core dimension, up until Matoro put on the Mask of Life.  It doesn't rule out him being a different element though, but I think Kapura is unlikely to be anything other than fire or light.


Edited by Taipu1, Jan 01 2013 - 12:10 PM.

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#20 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 12:49 PM

 

Tamaru: He likes water and hates heights, unlike most Le-Matoran, and has a more unusual color scheme, like Takua's blue.

His colour scheme is the same as Kongu's.

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]To be fair, Taipu and Hafu were different types of Matoran with the same color scheme. ;)[/color][/font]

 

(end quote)

 

I don't know what you're getting at. Click was claiming Tamaru's colour scheme was 'unusual' in the way that Takua's blue mask stood out from the Ta-Matoran, but then I pointed out that Tamaru's colour scheme is entirely in keeping with the other Le-Matoran, so it isn't unusual. Hafu and Taipu share colours simply because Po- and Onu-Matoran share tan and black, due to their elements being similar.

 

I don't think it was to do with being in a tunnel all the time, and just curiosity, he had a very explorative personality, he wanted to experience new places.  I don't think this is anything to do with growing bored of the tunnels or anything, he just seemed to be happy wherever he went.

(end quote)

 

It's a nature vs nurture question. But surely we can agree that Onu-Koro was the least enjoyable village in which to live, with the dreary mining work, claustrophobic tunnels and constant darkness.


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#21 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 12:49 PM

"

Just a little thing I thought of that would go against Kapura being an Av-matoran, in the kingdom Alternate universe, Kapura was a Toa.  And it was stated that Tanma was the only Toa of light in that team.  Interestingly though, Balta was also in that team, and having two of the same element in a team is unusual.  This seems to me to rule out Kapura being an Av-Matoran, because as far as we know the Kingdom was identical to the core dimension, up until Matoro put on the Mask of Life.  It doesn't rule out him being a different element though, but I think Kapura is unlikely to be anything other than fire or light.

"

It isn't that unusual for there to be multiple toa of the same element on one Toa team. The Toa Mangai had at least four Toa of ice and two Toa of water at one time.


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#22 Offline Click

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 01:50 PM

Yeah, I'll admit, about half those reasons were forced. I just was thinking about reasons for all of them to be Av-Matoran, since it would be cool. It would be another explaination of Kapura's speed ability, so it is possibly Kapura's an Av-Matoran, but the Kingdom reason is a good point. As soon as Takua turned into a Toa, his disguise was shut off, and even if Kapura kept it on, he wouldn't really be able to have Toa control over fire, unless we really stretch the definitions of light and he was extremely dedicated to keeping up that disguise.

 

Most of the other ones, not likely. Macku and Taipu though both like exploring and adventuring:

Macku is helpful, brave and adventurous, though her desire for adventure often led her to disobey the rules of her village and sneak out.

[Taipu's] greatest wish is to travel and see wonderful sights, often talking excitedly about places he has never been.

Both from BS01.

Av-Matoran, like Takua, wouldn't really feel like they fit in as much, unless they really got integrated into society. That seems to be a logical trait that most Time Slip Av-Matoran would share. It is possible, but I'm not sure about it.


Edited by Click, Jan 01 2013 - 01:51 PM.

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#23 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jan 01 2013 - 03:02 PM

Just a few points:

 

Macku -was- sneaking out to see her friend Hafu, and even if she wasn't, it should be seen as normal for Ga-Matoran to want to travel across the sea. That could easily be to spend MORE time in the normal element than on the lily pads, not less like Takua. If anything I'd take it as evidence that she might be destined to be a Toa of Water. :P (But who knows.)

 

Kopeke is seen as one of the most antisocial Ko-Matoran. Though really he's probably fairly normal compared to the hermits. I don't think any Ko-Matoran think about sociability like we do (and likely most other Matoran). It's not a factor of life on their radar screen. If something needs to be said, they will say it. If they feel like it. :P

 

Here's another possible point against Kapura being Av -- he made it to the second highest rank in Ta-Koro. Despite being strange, he seems to have had no trouble fitting in at all. So nice thinking along those lines but I don't think so. His ability seems to be something learned, not something innate anyways, from how he described it. A secret art, he called it. And Vakama is implied to know something of it too.

 

To the whole exploring and adventuring thing, I think that needs utterly abandoned. :P You have to remember that the only reason they all weren't exploring the island and already very familiar with every corner of it was that the Rahi were out there, and they had to close up the villages like that. In Metru Nui, many didn't especially want to travel, but it happened on a daily basis as a normal part of life. There would logically be a percentage of every elemental group that would be more sociable, like traveling, etc.

 

Yes, it was a trait of Takua's, but because he didn't fit in (and Ta-Koro may simply have been a bit too hot for his liking, being inside an active lava river after all) not just because he loved exploring. The others being mentioned along these lines fit in just fine. Also, of course, the example of the hermits and Macku brings up the possibility that someone could "not fit in" (or in the Ko-Matoran case, not care at all about social "fitting in", in any of them) because they're heavily associated with their element, not the other way around. Also, dirt was everywhere on the island, so it does fit with Earth for one of them to want to see what the other "lands" are like.


Edited by bonesiii, Jan 01 2013 - 03:13 PM.

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#24 Offline Dual Cee

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 12:18 PM

I always tought that Metru  Nui housed a lot of other types matoran, Tamaru could be a Greeny and the weird speed of Kapura could be a manifestation of Plasma, Kopeke could be sonics?


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#25 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 12:26 PM

"

I always tought that Metru  Nui housed a lot of other types matoran, Tamaru could be a Greeny and the weird speed of Kapura could be a manifestation of Plasma, Kopeke could be sonics?

"

Kapura's color scheme wouldn't fit a Matoran of Plasma, he's all red; no white or orange on him. Same goes for Kopeke (when he was decreased in size). I don't see why Kopeke would have to be a different element, he acts like a normal Ko-Matoran: he ignores people. He is the only Matoran that doesn't talk to you in MNOLG II.


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#26 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 01:52 PM

No, Metru Nui "officially" (meaning as far as the inhabitants knew; Takua is the only known exception) has only the main six elements. Other elements are found in the rest of the Matoran Universe. :)


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#27 Offline northmarch

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 02:27 PM

Didn't Toa Helrix once say that Matoran with an important destiny often stand out from the crowd. To me, all of this 'evidence' is just saying that these Matoran have an important roll to play, which is not news to anyone. This isn't to say that they will all become Toa. The OoMN only intended to place one Av-Matoran in each land and there were only six elements already present on Metry Nui. If there were any travellers from other lands there when the sea gates were closed (and didn't tell Turaga 'Terry' Dume so he could let them out before closing the gates). Why didn't they make themselves known on Mata Nui. They didn't loose their memories straight away.That being said, there is no telling what motives one could have for wanting to keep their identity hidden. Bum bum buuuuuu!But the Turaga did check all of the Matoran off before loading them on the airships.P.s. why does no one ever talk about Kotu?

Edited by northmarch, Jan 02 2013 - 02:30 PM.

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#28 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 03:21 PM

Yeah, Krakua was also a De-Matoran who hummed to himself, and he couldn't possibly have been an Av-Matoran.


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#29 Offline ChroXumo

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 04:13 PM

I don't know what you're getting at. Click was claiming Tamaru's colour scheme was 'unusual' in the way that Takua's blue mask stood out from the Ta-Matoran, but then I pointed out that Tamaru's colour scheme is entirely in keeping with the other Le-Matoran, so it isn't unusual. Hafu and Taipu share colours simply because Po- and Onu-Matoran share tan and black, due to their elements being similar.

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]Alright. Not getting at anything, I was just saying that it's possible for Tamaru and Kongu to be two different types of Matoran and have the same colors. I don't believe that Tamaru being different than most Le-Matoran is enough to call him a Matoran of the Green, though, as much as I would like for that to be the case.[/color][/font]


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#30 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 05:09 PM

It's possible, but not likely, due to the reasons cited above. 


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#31 Offline Wrinkledlion X

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 06:16 PM

I think you could make a very strong case for Kapura, but the others are pushing it. I like the idea that not all Matoran of one breed have to be the same, so the misfits in the Chronicler's Company are nice to keep around.That said, why so little discussion of Midak? That guy could definitely be an Av-Matoran.
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#32 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 02 2013 - 08:23 PM

That said, why so little discussion of Midak? That guy could definitely be an Av-Matoran.

Yeah, if anyone else on Mata/Metru Nui was an Av-Matoran, it was him.


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#33 Offline Fallen Silence

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 04:31 AM

Rather than these Matoran being Av-Matoran, I think they could be destined to be Toa one day. I think it was Jebraz who once said that Matoran destined to be Toa had eccentricities, for example Krakua humming to himself. Remember Matoro was more social, and he became a Toa. So Matorn like Tamaru, Midak and Kapura may be destined to become Toa.
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#34 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 08:33 AM

 

I don't know what you're getting at. Click was claiming Tamaru's colour scheme was 'unusual' in the way that Takua's blue mask stood out from the Ta-Matoran, but then I pointed out that Tamaru's colour scheme is entirely in keeping with the other Le-Matoran, so it isn't unusual. Hafu and Taipu share colours simply because Po- and Onu-Matoran share tan and black, due to their elements being similar.

[font="verdana, geneva, sans-serif;"][color=#808080;]Alright. Not getting at anything, I was just saying that it's possible for Tamaru and Kongu to be two different types of Matoran and have the same colors. I don't believe that Tamaru being different than most Le-Matoran is enough to call him a Matoran of the Green, though, as much as I would like for that to be the case.[/color][/font]

 

(end quote)

 

Okay, I see what you mean. Problem with it is that if Tamaru's colours can apply to another type of Matoran, then Kongu and a number of other Le-Matoran who also have them are eligible too, making it pointless to try to single Tamaru out.

 

It would help if we knew what 'Green' Matoran looked like.


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#35 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 02:48 PM

Problem with it is that if Tamaru's colours can apply to another type of Matoran, then Kongu and a number of other Le-Matoran who also have them are eligible too, making it pointless to try to single Tamaru out.

Others, yes, but Kongu isn't eligible. Don't forget he became the Toa Inika/Mahri of Air.


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#36 Offline Lyichir

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 03:38 PM

 

Problem with it is that if Tamaru's colours can apply to another type of Matoran, then Kongu and a number of other Le-Matoran who also have them are eligible too, making it pointless to try to single Tamaru out.

Others, yes, but Kongu isn't eligible. Don't forget he became the Toa Inika/Mahri of Air. 

I think that's their point. Since Kongu's colors have been proven to be associated with Le-Matoran, it does not follow that Matoran who share those exact colors should have their elements up for debate for that reason. It invalidates that particular line of evidence. 

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#37 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 04:01 PM

I think that's their point. Since Kongu's colors have been proven to be associated with Le-Matoran, it does not follow that Matoran who share those exact colors should have their elements up for debate for that reason. It invalidates that particular line of evidence.

No it doesn't, because as I said earlier, we know that elemental color ranges can overlap as seen with Taipu (Onu) and Hafu (Po). :) Again, remember a theory uses evidence -- an indication that it MIGHT be true, or is plausible, you could say, rather than proof that it MUST be true.

 

I highly doubt it's true, but this argument alone cannot invalidate it logically (that would be fallacious). Since there seems to be some confusion about this, let me get into the logicianspeak technicalities for a moment; this might help clear it up. :) In this case, the argument can be presented in categorical logic along these lines -- given that the elements we've seen large sample sizes of have a range of colors, and that in at least one case there is known overlap (imagine intersecting circles for example), then it's reasonable to consider there might be similar overlaps between known elemental ranges and the unknown range of another, in this case the known range is Air (including Kongu), and the unknown range is Plants.

 

All we know of Plants is that the standard colors are green and blue. Tamaru's bluegreen secondary may plausibly be in the range of blues. (And greens. :P) So in terms of validity, the argument works. In terms of logic the argument is valid. 

But when an argument is valid, the conclusion can still be false if the premises are false. In this case, two possible falsehoods could be in play. Either it's false that bluegreen is in the range of Plants colors (which we don't know), or it's true but Tamaru happens not to be one anyways and is like Kongu.

 

Personally I suspect bluegreen IS in the range of acceptable Plants colors, but that Tamaru is not a Plants Matoran, nor anyone else in Le-Metru/Koro. There's no real evidence that there would be a situation with Plants Matoran similar to Av-Matoran where they would be secretly in place as a Le-Matoran. It's possible, or some kind of an error or trick of destiny but all seem unlikely.

 

Hope this helps. ^_^


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#38 Offline Great Being Velika

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 05:10 PM

Wait. Aren't Tamaru's colors green and lime green?


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#39 Online bonesiii

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 06:56 PM

Wait. Aren't Tamaru's colors green and lime green?

BS01 page. Primary is lime green, secondary is bluegreen/teal. (See my first post here for more; the cyan of MNOG is non-canon.)

 

So, somewhat yes, but that green is specifically bluegreen, not pure green.


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#40 Offline Sir Kohran

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 10:37 AM

 

Wait. Aren't Tamaru's colors green and lime green?

BS01 page. Primary is lime green, secondary is bluegreen/teal. (See my first post here for more; the cyan of MNOG is non-canon.)

(end quote)

 

You mentioned in your first post 'he and Kongu's "cyan" is actually bluegreen in the set form', yet Tamaru was never released as a set. In fact, Kongu was the only (Mata Nui) Le-Matoran who ever made it to set form, making Air the least released Matoran group (obviously excepting elements never released at all).

 

As for colours, the electric-looking teal (or cyan) in the first MNOLG is just an overly bright interpretation of McToran Kongu's teal. The mosaic blue of set Matoro was also excessively brightened, to the point where it looked like Ga-Matoran light blue. The second MNOLG clearly darkened the Le-Matoran teal, though the Ko-Matoran blue remained the same (if anything, it looks slightly brighter).


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