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Real Mata Form?


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#1 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 10:45 AM

So as I was trying to go to sleep last night, I started thinking about a picture from The Mata Nui Saga.Posted Image

And I remember thinking Why is Tahu in his Stars form and not his Mata form? And of course the first answer my brain comes up with is Marketing. But then I started to wonder why the other Toa didn't look quite the same. So then I started wondering if there was a canon reason for this. So I let my mind scour it's vast memories of BIONICLE facts and trivia, and I remembered something the Kanohi Ignika said to Tahu when it de-evolved him back to a Toa Mata. "In order to do what you must, you must be what you were" (That was in BIONICLE: Glatorian #6 All That Glitters if you want to look it up). I also remember that in BIONICLE Legends: Island of Doom, Lewa didn't want to get into the Toa Canister, and the Turaga reassured him (or at least tried to) by saying that due to malfunction of the canisters, they floated around Mata Nui for a thousand years, causing there organic parts to decay. So that made me wonder if some of the mechanical parts started to decay also, or at least change shape. My strongest argument for this would probably be the bicep armor that is on the Tahu Stars, but not on Tahu Mata. One thousand years of rust and degradation could have caused them to be more of a hindrance than a protection. 

 

So when the Ignika de-evolved Tahu, it went with the form he should have had on Mata Nui, but didn't have due to thousands of years of stasis, causing him to degrade.

 

So that's my theory I thought up last night when my mind wouldn't shut up when I was trying to sleep. Any thoughts?


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#2 Online King of Dust

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 10:52 AM

Could possibly be right, but I think the star sets were meant to be Tahu Mata. They couldnt just re-release the set


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#3 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 10:55 AM

"

Could possibly be right, but I think the star sets were meant to be Tahu Mata. They couldnt just re-release the set

"

I know, but it would have been nice if they did, right?


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#4 Offline Great Being Velika

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 10:58 AM

I think it would be pretty hard for the mechanical parts to decay.


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#5 Offline LockmanCapulet

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 11:19 AM

I'm just gonna go with "marketing" as the answer. I think the canon reason for Stars being different is that Stars Tahu is still wearing the Adaptive Armor. (My headcanon is that the reason the Golden Armor "replaced" some of his armor is that the Adaptive Armor adapted to it.) Correct me if I'm wrong.


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#6 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 11:27 AM

The only thing BS01 says about the adaptive armor is that his sword was his adaptive weapon, morphed to look like it.


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#7 Offline Tommy_

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 12:18 PM

The toa next to Tahu don't even look like any of the toa mata.. who do you think they are?

Is the decay the reason why the canisters aren't transparent anymore when they wash up ashore?


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#8 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 12:21 PM

I wondered about that too, but I think that is just an inner layer, like a stasis tube inside a toa canister.


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#9 Offline Taipu1

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 12:51 PM

The other canisters just seem to be generic silhouettes, with a little artistic license.  As for Tahu, that form is identical to his '01 form, the set just pays tribute to it, and is different.  I've never imagine Tahu looking like that, ever.  As has been said, the use of his stars image just comes down to marketing.  If there were no stars sets, he would've looked as he had done in '01, and we would probably have seen the other Toa as well.


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#10 Offline Sir Jalokim

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 12:58 PM

actually the reason tahu mata looks like he did in the stars line was because he was wearing adapted armor. If you took the adaptive armor off him in 2010, he would look exactly as he would have in 2001. in other words, 2001 form was hidden under a layer of adaptive armor.


Edited by toa jalokim, Jan 03 2013 - 12:58 PM.

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#11 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 01:04 PM

"

actually the reason tahu mata looks like he did in the stars line was because he was wearing adapted armor. If you took the adaptive armor off him in 2010, he would look exactly as he would have in 2001. in other words, 2001 form was hidden under a layer of adaptive armor.

"

But in the picture, Tahu is in Stars form; before he got the Adaptive Armor.


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#12 Offline Sir Jalokim

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 01:07 PM

"

actually the reason tahu mata looks like he did in the stars line was because he was wearing adapted armor. If you took the adaptive armor off him in 2010, he would look exactly as he would have in 2001. in other words, 2001 form was hidden under a layer of adaptive armor.

"

But in the picture, Tahu is in Stars form; before he got the Adaptive Armor.

 

He looked like this in the picture because of marketing, but the picture itself is non-canon.


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#13 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 04:22 PM

 

"

actually the reason tahu mata looks like he did in the stars line was because he was wearing adapted armor. If you took the adaptive armor off him in 2010, he would look exactly as he would have in 2001. in other words, 2001 form was hidden under a layer of adaptive armor.

"

But in the picture, Tahu is in Stars form; before he got the Adaptive Armor.

 

He looked like this in the picture because of marketing, but the picture itself is non-canon.

 

Right, that's what I would assume.

 

Also, keep in mind that sets are always representations anyways, not meant to be 100% accurate. My guess is that the real Mata forms looked like something halfway between his Stars form and his 2001 form, but also sort of neither look quite right. The 2001 set was made before the true "Bionicle feel" had really been wrestled out of time, experience, focus group research, etc. And all the sets (in question here anyways) don't quite match the "fully canon" appearance of the characters that was established in 2003 via MOL (though it may have been somewhat retconned with WoS). Look at Tahu Nuva MOL for example compared to Tahu Nuva 2003 set.

 

So -- Tahu Mata set represents Tahu's form, possibly weakened organically but unlikely that his metal parts were changed.

 

Tahu Nuva set represents Tahu Nuva's form (Tahu MOL actually depicts his 'real' canon form).

 

Tahu Star set represents the re-Mata-ized but adaptive-armor-wearing Tahu of 2010.

 

And this image represents the original pre-canister Tahu Mata form, with no adaptive armor.

 

Does this help? :)


Edited by bonesiii, Jan 03 2013 - 04:23 PM.

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#14 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 05:39 PM

Oh. I always thought the sets are what the characters really looked like since that is what Lego is trying to sell. So the sets are really just basic idea of what they look like?

 

 

And here I really thought I had something.


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#15 Offline TheSkeletonMan939

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 06:39 PM

It's called marketing. You don't want to include an image of a 2001 toy in a 2010 image. The Stars were Lego's cheap way of making a few more bucks off of Bionicle. The sets were non-canon in every possible way.

 

Toa Mata Tahu looks just like he did in 2001. The artist just drew him in his non-canon 2010 form.


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#16 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 06:59 PM

Oh. I always thought the sets are what the characters really looked like since that is what Lego is trying to sell. So the sets are really just basic idea of what they look like?

 

 

And here I really thought I had something.

They are -- within reason. They're plastic, often with no visible hint of the bio part of their canon biomechanical nature. And made of LEGO/Technic/Bionicle parts, which the characters canonically are not. So in those basic ways, the sets function as representations. They are 'set versions' of their appearances. :) The basic look of them beyond those practical limits is canon, however, yes.


Edited by bonesiii, Jan 03 2013 - 07:00 PM.

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#17 Offline Veeks

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 10:21 PM

The Tahu Mata set wasn't bad, I just wish they'd made him taller, and less Matoran sized. But the fact of the movable arms and legs made him awesome (not as good as the original though). But yes it is simply marketing.


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#18 Offline Anti Nui

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Posted Jan 03 2013 - 11:43 PM

Kind of off topic but I just noticed the third toa from the left kind of looks like it could be Gali, as you can sort of see the shape of a Kaukau. Probably just a coincidence, though.


Edited by Anti Nui, Jan 03 2013 - 11:45 PM.

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#19 Offline DuplexBeGreat

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 12:04 AM

But isn't there another problem, besides just the armor difference and decay? The height. I think it was said somewhere that the only reason the Mata were so "small" compared to other Toa was because of the same decay. But if the MoL completely made Tahu "what he once was", then the Stars set wasn't just minorly innacurate, it was completely the wrong size!
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#20 Offline Master Inika

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 12:19 AM

I was under the impression that, in the storyline, there was no difference between the two versions of Tahu. This discussion reminds me of how Greg would respond to the questions about how many Manas the Toa fought in 2001 (they was a Manas army in MNOG, but only two in Tale of the Toa); he said they were two ways of telling essentially the same story, and no version was all-encompassingly canon over the other (he also said that once about set vs. movie versions of characters).


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#21 Offline Tommy_

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 07:33 AM

I never really liked how Bionicle in the movies looked so different from the sets (unlike the commercials and such). But I guess it makes sense.

 

Kind of off topic but I just noticed the third toa from the left kind of looks like it could be Gali, as you can sort of see the shape of a Kaukau. Probably just a coincidence, though.

---

Haha, that's what I thought. A longer kaukau..


Edited by Tommy_, Jan 04 2013 - 07:34 AM.

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#22 Offline LockmanCapulet

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 10:41 AM

But isn't there another problem, besides just the armor difference and decay? The height. I think it was said somewhere that the only reason the Mata were so "small" compared to other Toa was because of the same decay. But if the MoL completely made Tahu "what he once was", then the Stars set wasn't just minorly innacurate, it was completely the wrong size!

 

Again, the sets are just plastic representations. Nektann is canonically taller than your average Skakdi. Jaller Inika had two Energized Flame Swords. Nuparu Mahri had the Aqua Blaster Blade alongside his Cordak and Razor-Edged Protosteel Shield. But the sets do not display any of these traits/features.


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#23 Offline The Legendary TNT

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 11:05 AM

Ok, so I guess my theory was blown to the wind, but at least I learned something. :D


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#24 Offline Makuta Matata

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 04:49 PM

I'm pretty sure it was confirmed somewhere that he was devolved back into his original Mata Nui form, but don't quote me on that. 


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#25 Offline bonesiii

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 05:19 PM

Set basic shapes are canon; sizes have never been so. The size of the set in relation to others is only canon if Greg says it is, and there are countless of examples where the scale is different, like the Tahtorak. (It's actually much, much larger than the MOC, as shown in the comic.) Plus later sets (not counting the Stars) tended to get taller in the plastic just to make room for the elbows and knees; that change was not reflected in the story. Tahu Star simply reversed that plastic trend.

 

Really, all you're supposed to take from seeing the Star is the mask shape. :P


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#26 Offline The Iron Toa

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 07:15 PM

I think he just looks different in the Stars form because he has Adaptive Armor instead of his original Mata armor. So he's not a Toa Nuva anymore, but he's still not quite the same as he was originally.


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#27 Offline LockmanCapulet

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 07:34 PM

I think he just looks different in the Stars form because he has Adaptive Armor instead of his original Mata armor. So he's not a Toa Nuva anymore, but he's still not quite the same as he was originally.

That's my thinking. I don't know if anything's been confirmed regarding that, but if the Ignika didn't need to remove his adaptive weapon for the Golden Armor to work, I don't see why the rest of the adaptive armor would have to go. Like I said before, I think the adaptive armor adapted to the presence of the Golden Armor, explaining why some of Tahu's red armor was replaced with Golden parts.


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#28 Offline Sir Jalokim

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 07:38 PM

 

I think he just looks different in the Stars form because he has Adaptive Armor instead of his original Mata armor. So he's not a Toa Nuva anymore, but he's still not quite the same as he was originally.

That's my thinking. I don't know if anything's been confirmed regarding that, but if the Ignika didn't need to remove his adaptive weapon for the Golden Armor to work, I don't see why the rest of the adaptive armor would have to go. Like I said before, I think the adaptive armor adapted to the presence of the Golden Armor, explaining why some of Tahu's red armor was replaced with Golden parts.

 

 

 

It has in fact been confirmed that tahu stars was wearing adaptive armor, is sais so on BS01. If Tahu stars wasn't wearing adaptive armor, he would look like his 2001 mata form.


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#29 Offline LockmanCapulet

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 07:40 PM

 

 

I think he just looks different in the Stars form because he has Adaptive Armor instead of his original Mata armor. So he's not a Toa Nuva anymore, but he's still not quite the same as he was originally.

That's my thinking. I don't know if anything's been confirmed regarding that, but if the Ignika didn't need to remove his adaptive weapon for the Golden Armor to work, I don't see why the rest of the adaptive armor would have to go. Like I said before, I think the adaptive armor adapted to the presence of the Golden Armor, explaining why some of Tahu's red armor was replaced with Golden parts.

 

 

 

It has in fact been confirmed that tahu stars was wearing adaptive armor, is sais so on BS01. If Tahu stars wasn't wearing adaptive armor, he would look like his 2001 mata form.

 

 

Ah, good to know. I searched and searched BS01, but couldn't find that info anywhere. What page did you find it on?


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#30 Offline Sir Jalokim

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Posted Jan 04 2013 - 08:05 PM

huh. It dissapeared. But I do remember reading that on the tahu page a few months ago.

 

But he has kept his apadtive weapon, which is cool, I guess.

You know what, erebus should ask Greg if it is canon that Tahu still had his adaptive armor when he was devolved by the mask of light.

Nevermind, I found the page!

 

http://biosector01.c.../Adaptive_Armorhttp://biosector01.c.../Adaptive_Armor

 

its at the bottom of the set information section. I'll quote it

 

"In 2010, the additional armor featured on the BIONICLE Stars Tahu set represents the Adaptive Armor in its default form on the devolved Toa."


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#31 Offline LockmanCapulet

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Posted Jan 05 2013 - 09:31 AM

huh. It dissapeared. But I do remember reading that on the tahu page a few months ago.

 

But he has kept his apadtive weapon, which is cool, I guess.

You know what, erebus should ask Greg if it is canon that Tahu still had his adaptive armor when he was devolved by the mask of light.

Nevermind, I found the page!

 

http://biosector01.c.../Adaptive_Armorhttp://biosector01.c.../Adaptive_Armor

 

its at the bottom of the set information section. I'll quote it

 

"In 2010, the additional armor featured on the BIONICLE Stars Tahu set represents the Adaptive Armor in its default form on the devolved Toa."

 

Ah, yes! Thank you for finding that!


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#32 Offline Sir Jalokim

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Posted Jan 05 2013 - 11:08 PM

your welcome. I guess that answers the question of why stars Tahu looks different from Tahu Mata.


Edited by toa jalokim, Jan 05 2013 - 11:08 PM.

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